Is it possible to try out the skills, without having to use a retrain token? Putting skills right the first time seems to me illogical;
You can try it out on Tribble, but if you put a point in wrong you will need a retrain token to change it. Luckily those tokens are free on Drozana Station
Feels like Cryptic must change something until it's broken rather than actually make content. Make more grind systems that utilise little or no new content and throw some lockboxes/ships at us and repeat.
At the last skill revamp we heard the same thing "they are listening to feedback." Does that mean that they didn't listen to feedback they last time? Who's to say they'll listen now? How simple do they have to make this?
What Cryptic probably fails to realise is they're piling up so much overwhelming stuff after lv50. We've got multiple spec trees and probably more on the way, reputations.... It's put me off as a long term player and as a newplayer I'd look at the mountain of grind and throw my arms up and walk away. If I stayed I'd see barely any content to work with to make it fun and be bored like I am now.
I'm wondering if by the end of the current arc we'll get another excuse to revamp ESD with new icons and stuff we could easily do without all due to 'feedback'. Honestly I feel things will only change when the community mostly decides they've had enough and won't be fobbed off by lockboxes and c store shinies. There's only so many times you can reinvent the wheel and recycle content.
I also don't get why they do a revamp and remove a way to make space or ground builds.
I have space and ground builds, after the revamp im losing a reason to keep my ground toons.
All my toons will get the same points in space and ground..
I look at this and all I see is the dumbing down of a system that was neither too complicated nor too simple. A system that gave players the opportunity to be unique, to encourage subtle differences between players with the same classes. Now I see the subtly being tossed out the window in favour of a blunt force approach that will force players into cookie cutter builds. After having played this game for over five years I finally broke down and got a LTS. I'm now regretting that. I remember the old skill system. It really was too complicated (speccing ship classes? really?) and the one we have now did great being more intuitive and understandable without being too noob friendly.
This game does not need this change. It really doesn't.
Forget the MAC issue i have issue with. In the past year Cryptic have made certain decisions that make me think, why am i putting money into this game for X when X down the round gets changed and has its value diminished.
This skill revamp was not required. Could the existing tree do with a tweak like move powers around like exothermic induction lowered or attack patterns made higher up in the tree ? maybe.
Guess the i'll have to see if all the investment i've made to my acc for my characters is about to be devalued again when this goes live
Um, yeah. Like 'Long-range Targeting.' That was gratuitously built-in on your beams, got pre-nerfed, with an option to 'buy' back. Or shield regen/hardness, now also nerfed, but which you can get back by getting the 'new' skills (partially, at least: exact effects of the pre-nerf are as of yet unknown).
b) Can you more or less replicate your holodeck builds on tribble?
Bit of a silly question, really, as *everyone* now only has access to a brand new toon (unless some ppl were actually crazy enough to level up their new toon to lv. 60, buy all the gear, make it all Epic, do all the Spezializations, just to get to where they are now; but I think it's safe to assume no one did).
the B ) Question is kinda silly, we cant get the ships we use for said builds, like the mercury, b/c the Z-store is disabled, so i cant replicate my build... HEY CRYPTIC make the Z-Store ships FREE on Tribble so we can Test fly them or at least make the ships we have already bought available to use on tribble.
Borticus said the lock out on transferring characters and characters we had already on tribble will last a week. They'll unlock it tomorrow. You can wait another day can't you?
I have been in sto since beta and buyed it .. yes back then... and spent hundreds of dollars on zen to respect and perfect my toons... I have three... my fave 60 engineer... and a tact 58 and a science 59 ... my engie has all rep maxxed and my traits are perfect for my rainbow build... with the rep builds...
all is lost... the zen I spent to respect that one character is more than enough for me to not like this new REVAMP..
you give me back my zen for all the money I spent on my respects for that one toon, my fave... before this revamp..
because all that money REAL LIFE MONEY I spent is gone now...
I want that zen back arcgames/crypic.....
If they aren't refunding Zen to MAC users for a client issue lasting 3 weeks which was of their own making where Verified MAC users if they wished to log on had to use the emulators they are now promoting but disqualifying MAC users a refund for using them when Cryptic/PWE could not provide direct access to the game, then you can guess the chances of getting a Zen refund for respect tokens are ? 0%
I'm not sure whether to be excited or concerned by this, but I think I'm going to go with the first.
You must be a new gamer.. I am 53 years old and played Everquest when they sent you a CD in the mail... Not email... the Postal service...
Everytime a game makes a HUGE change to their skill or leveling system that game has failed. If you can find one instance where it has succeeded please reference it.
If STO pulls this complete change off and us players with level 60 toons that we have taken years to perfect stay and like the REVAMP it will be a miracle. I have been gaming since APPLE IIe computers and floppy disk and King's Quest.
Every company that has a product that making a profit and consumers continue to buy it then someone within their company thinks CHANGE and sells that idea to a production leader... That product fails...
Coke tried it .... coke free .. coke this .. coke that... oh TRIBBLE let's stay with just coke....
I could name a list of games that have failed after changing a successful game with a complete "revamp" but then this post would be so long it would TLDR ......
I could name a list of companies that failed because they changed their recipe and labeled it "NEW" .. then failed...
I don't have to do that for the majority of STO players. We are adults and know that everything I am saying is FACT. A BUSINESS fails usually when it is successful and then changes it's entire business plan.
Most playing STO are kids and half adults that have worked years on their toons in this game and now we have to start over on toons that we take pride in... Some toons we have paid ZEN to re train over and over to perfect..
now we got 40 space and 10 ground and all that work is just gone.
I'm trying to keep this short but some of us have toons that we love to log in and play and are proud off and after this REVAMP we have to start over.
We/Them are the ones that will probably leave if it's cumbersome and going to deminish all the years we put into that one toon that is our favourite to log into in STO.
Now maybe you get it? I probably speak for most of the VET players here that have been with STO since beta.
And we are the core of the game and the most dedicated, and we don't want to leave or leave behind our prize toons that took us years to create.
So for everyone that loves STO sake I hope this REVAMP doesn't mess up years of work that us vet players have committed to our sto toons.
If it does... We will probably just say FK IT... Like I did with so many other games that I committed so much time and ZEN(MONEY) INTO then had to start over.
~Vet rant over.
I think you forget the fact that everything they are doing with the game is geared towards making the game more on par with some of the other games that are out there. Name one game that uses the skill system STO has now.
HEY GIVE ME MY ZEN BACK FOR EVERYTHING I BOUGHT PRE REVAMP... BECAUSE I LOSE ALL THAT? ... yea think about that cryptic and arcgames.... where is our zen we spent for respects?
if we bought 6 respects and this new REVAMP happens do we get that zen back? we paid for that for our toons over the years... how are we compensated...
Don't even get me started thinking.. this is just the beginning..
I want my zen back for every respect I did now that you choose to change the whole game and all that zen I spent was for nothing..
should I keep talking?
This is the nature of an MMO. There will be plenty of people like yourself that don't like the change, but you're the first person I've seen who wants a refund for the zen you spend on respecs. Maybe when Tribble unlocks tomorrow for character transfers, you should hop on and see just how bad you say the new system is?
spent lots of money on respects for my engineer and now we get this wonderful update and all that money was for nothing...
I want my zen back if you do this to me... Did you guys even thing about us vet players that have spent hundreds... thousands of dollars over the last 6 years...
we should just accept this new skills and OMG we spent money to perfect our toons by respecting and other things to make our toons the best to us..
oops.... sorry you spent that money .... use our new REVAMP..
nope.. that's why most vets will leave when you do this...
I've spent over 1,200 bucks in this game over the last 6 years... and now all that is gone..
FK YOU GUYS...
give me my zen back or my money back... if you are going to take away everything I spent that money on...
No one said you had to spend 1200 dollars on this game. As I said before, you're the first person I have literally seen asking for a refund.
Am I the only one here that see's this? ... I spent a lot of money on this game and now all that I spent is gone other than the dumb stuff like banks and ships...
WTF arcgames? gonna compensate us that have spent money on respects and stuff?
I know it doesn't help the situation much, but you (and EVERYONE else) will be given a free respec when the revamp system officially hits the live server.
Other than that, you won't be refunded, especially if you've spent those respec tokens already.
The new guys don't get it...we worked years to make our toons good... now we lose all our respects(I WANT MY ZEN BACK) ... AND we just don't need it this change..
If the new players think that the skills are to complicated then they just need to learn the game...
this game is perfect right now as it is...
Don't do this to us....
this is going to be the end of this game if they follow through with this "revamp" ...
it is...
You think the skill system is perfect, but according to Borticus from the Priority One podcast interview he did last week, he doesn't think so.
Back when they redid the skill tree the first time and launched it, they realized that it actually didn't turn out how they wanted it to be. They spent 6-8 months working on the fine details of this new skill revamp to a point they are satisfied with it. Now comes the fine tuning before the release.
However, if you don't like the changes that they're making, no one says you have to continue paying money to them. they're not going to stand over you with a gun to your head and make you spend money on the game.
You can try it out on Tribble, but if you put a point in wrong you will need a retrain token to change it. Luckily those tokens are free on Drozana Station
Here's to hoping the system doesn't go live without the much requested "confirm selections" (as in plural) button....
Personally, I don't think this revamp is horrible. Was it really necessary? Not in the least IMO.
Oh, you can bet your bald, blue butt that's gonna make it live. They want people to be making miss clicks, so that they feel like they need to buy those "specially discounted" respec tokens.
Again, the revamp was a nice idea at least: streamline things for newer players, and encourage veterans to branch out a bit. However, both supposed goals fall flat by continuing to require a monetary cost for the respec tokens. New players still get punished for miss clicks or "wrong" choices early on, and most veterans aren't going to want to spend money on experimenting with anything that isn't "optimal". In the end, the whole thing feels more like an attempt to make a quick buck off of players, and possibly stealth nerf some things along the way.
I was actually kind of excited when I initially heard talk of a skill revamp, but with how it's been handled thus far, the idea now just continues to leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
"There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
I have been in sto since beta and buyed it .. yes back then... and spent hundreds of dollars on zen to respect and perfect my toons... I have three... my fave 60 engineer... and a tact 58 and a science 59 ... my engie has all rep maxxed and my traits are perfect for my rainbow build... with the rep builds...
all is lost... the zen I spent to respect that one character is more than enough for me to not like this new REVAMP..
you give me back my zen for all the money I spent on my respects for that one toon, my fave... before this revamp..
because all that money REAL LIFE MONEY I spent is gone now...
I want that zen back arcgames/crypic.....
If they aren't refunding Zen to MAC users for a client issue lasting 3 weeks which was of their own making where Verified MAC users if they wished to log on had to use the emulators they are now promoting but disqualifying MAC users a refund for using them when Cryptic/PWE could not provide direct access to the game, then you can guess the chances of getting a Zen refund for respect tokens are ? 0%
I would respond to that if it was intelligible. I get it about apple users... you need to shut up and let me do my work... this update should not happen for windows or apple users...
let me do my work and represent the VETS...
Sorry but i was only emphasising how things tend to work here. And thats you have zero chance of getting a Zen refund for any respect token purchased regardless of how much time,effort and money you may have sunk into this game in the past. Those are not attributes that Cryptic/PWE value. Well taking your money they do.
Special event token changes as an example ?
But please if you feel this skill revamp is not ness and i do agree with you, voice your concerns and fight for the time/effort and money you have invested.
This is going live with bugs and unbalanced skills no matter how much we resist it.
ok you are epic ....AND dun... im done too... we will see how it plays out... Im done here in forums... I have siad what I need to say.
Look i agree with what you are saying and i'm sorry if it hasn't quite come across that way in my posts. Like you i've spent a lot of money on my account to make my characters fully geared and equipped to handle the content this game offers. And now that time,effort and expense looks to be written off.
1 free pass to try to recreate what this skill tree will reset and no guarantee you can recreate what you currently have.
Make a mistake on this one free pass and what happens hand in your pocket for another respect token.
However Cryptic/PWE have already allocated the resources to this skill revamp its happening whatever our feelings about it.
the usual will happen testing on Tribble and giving feedback will be ignored as per normal unless a game breaking bug is identified, those here on the forums not happy will be ignored, the revamp will go live with bugs, unbalanced powers, powers not working ect as per the 99% of any changes they implement to this game. So expect the next few patches after it goes live to have tweaks for the skill tree.
They won't offer refunds as they see it as an evolution of the game and new content
The point i was trying to make is whether you want this or not its happening and you will not get you a refund.
Although any respect tokens you have purchased or used within the last 6 months should either be given back to use towards the skill tree or credited back.
I appreciate you voicing your concerns on the forum and in no way am i saying you should not or telling you to stop or shut up.
So again i apologise that my posts have been taken in the wrong context by yourself. Its PWE/Cryptic who i have issues with and i don't see them acknowledging your frustration about this skill revamp
I have been in sto since beta and buyed it .. yes back then... and spent hundreds of dollars on zen to respect and perfect my toons... I have three... my fave 60 engineer... and a tact 58 and a science 59 ... my engie has all rep maxxed and my traits are perfect for my rainbow build... with the rep builds...
all is lost... the zen I spent to respect that one character is more than enough for me to not like this new REVAMP..
you give me back my zen for all the money I spent on my respects for that one toon, my fave... before this revamp..
because all that money REAL LIFE MONEY I spent is gone now...
I want that zen back arcgames/crypic.....
If they aren't refunding Zen to MAC users for a client issue lasting 3 weeks which was of their own making where Verified MAC users if they wished to log on had to use the emulators they are now promoting but disqualifying MAC users a refund for using them when Cryptic/PWE could not provide direct access to the game, then you can guess the chances of getting a Zen refund for respect tokens are ? 0%
I would respond to that if it was intelligible. I get it about apple users... you need to shut up and let me do my work... this update should not happen for windows or apple users...
let me do my work and represent the VETS...
And who says you represent the VETS of the game? Did you meet online somewhere with all of the VETS of the game and they voted you to be the leader?
I get you don't like the change. Some people probably share your opinion, but not everyone does. MMOs are constantly changing.
I've been with this game for well over 3 years (since F2P) and I got used to the skill tree we have currently on the holodeck server. In the time I've been with the game, I've seen the following changes to the current systems we have:
Season 7: Reputations introduced. Able to pick 1 of 2 passive powers per tier of each reputation. have to respec reputation choices if you want different.
Legacy of Romulus: Made to where you can choose traits when in social areas without spending a re-trait token.
Season 9: Revamped Reputations to the point you could only choose four space, four ground and four active powers (but could change it up at any time. Essentially became reputation traits and no longer needed a reputation respec token.
Season 9: Kit revamp to where kit powers could be changed at will, allowing for more variety of kit powers to be made.
Season 9.5 Crafting revamp: went from crafting in one location to being able to craft anywhere and make almost anything we wanted with new modifiers.
Out of all of these, the one that I think got people up in a rage storm to the likes that you show was the reputation revamp. Before the revamp, people could have as many as 16 passive powers up to the Dyson Joint Command reputation and 4 active powers. The idea was to make the level of a fresh level 50 player (remember before the level cap increase) seem to be not as much as a level 50 player who has all the reputations maxed. Sure, people had the ability to move stuff around, but they didn't the change since it meant they couldn't have everything they unlocked. I think eventually people learned to live with it.
You don't have to play the game if you don't like the changes. It's entirely your choice to continue to play this game and/or support it.
A: This is a mechanic that never worked well in Star Trek Online, and needlessly confused some systems (such as Hull Regeneration). Rather than try and improve a system that added complexity to an already complex game, we decided it was time to retire the mechanic as a whole. As a result, you will no longer see a Crew meter in the HUD, and all existing mechanics that relied upon Crew have been changed so that they behave at all times as if you had 100% of your available Crew.
- Any items/traits/etc. that improved Crew Regeneration have been changed to improve Hull Regeneration.
- Any items/traits/etc. that improved Crew Resistance have been changed to improve resistance to Subsystem Offline Durations.
A: We have abandoned “Abandon Ship” – this ability was never very useful, and primarily only utilized to grief other players. We decided to remove it entirely, and replace it with the new ability: “Threatening Stance”
By toggling on this new ability, the player may choose at any time to begin causing additional Threat to any enemies they are in combat with. Threat is what determines how an NPC foe chooses their target – the more you generate, the more likely they are to attack you.
Just read the FAQ on the revamp. The above changes are definately welcome. The whole crew compliment/hull regen thing was unnecessarily complicated. Getting rid of abandoned ship is a nice change, too. I've only ever seen it used by people trying to be annoying.
Comments
You can try it out on Tribble, but if you put a point in wrong you will need a retrain token to change it. Luckily those tokens are free on Drozana Station
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At the last skill revamp we heard the same thing "they are listening to feedback." Does that mean that they didn't listen to feedback they last time? Who's to say they'll listen now? How simple do they have to make this?
What Cryptic probably fails to realise is they're piling up so much overwhelming stuff after lv50. We've got multiple spec trees and probably more on the way, reputations.... It's put me off as a long term player and as a newplayer I'd look at the mountain of grind and throw my arms up and walk away. If I stayed I'd see barely any content to work with to make it fun and be bored like I am now.
I'm wondering if by the end of the current arc we'll get another excuse to revamp ESD with new icons and stuff we could easily do without all due to 'feedback'. Honestly I feel things will only change when the community mostly decides they've had enough and won't be fobbed off by lockboxes and c store shinies. There's only so many times you can reinvent the wheel and recycle content.
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I have space and ground builds, after the revamp im losing a reason to keep my ground toons.
All my toons will get the same points in space and ground..
This game does not need this change. It really doesn't.
This skill revamp was not required. Could the existing tree do with a tweak like move powers around like exothermic induction lowered or attack patterns made higher up in the tree ? maybe.
Guess the i'll have to see if all the investment i've made to my acc for my characters is about to be devalued again when this goes live
Borticus said the lock out on transferring characters and characters we had already on tribble will last a week. They'll unlock it tomorrow. You can wait another day can't you?
If they aren't refunding Zen to MAC users for a client issue lasting 3 weeks which was of their own making where Verified MAC users if they wished to log on had to use the emulators they are now promoting but disqualifying MAC users a refund for using them when Cryptic/PWE could not provide direct access to the game, then you can guess the chances of getting a Zen refund for respect tokens are ? 0%
I think you forget the fact that everything they are doing with the game is geared towards making the game more on par with some of the other games that are out there. Name one game that uses the skill system STO has now.
This is the nature of an MMO. There will be plenty of people like yourself that don't like the change, but you're the first person I've seen who wants a refund for the zen you spend on respecs. Maybe when Tribble unlocks tomorrow for character transfers, you should hop on and see just how bad you say the new system is?
No one said you had to spend 1200 dollars on this game. As I said before, you're the first person I have literally seen asking for a refund.
I know it doesn't help the situation much, but you (and EVERYONE else) will be given a free respec when the revamp system officially hits the live server.
Other than that, you won't be refunded, especially if you've spent those respec tokens already.
You think the skill system is perfect, but according to Borticus from the Priority One podcast interview he did last week, he doesn't think so.
Back when they redid the skill tree the first time and launched it, they realized that it actually didn't turn out how they wanted it to be. They spent 6-8 months working on the fine details of this new skill revamp to a point they are satisfied with it. Now comes the fine tuning before the release.
However, if you don't like the changes that they're making, no one says you have to continue paying money to them. they're not going to stand over you with a gun to your head and make you spend money on the game.
Oh, you can bet your bald, blue butt that's gonna make it live. They want people to be making miss clicks, so that they feel like they need to buy those "specially discounted" respec tokens.
Again, the revamp was a nice idea at least: streamline things for newer players, and encourage veterans to branch out a bit. However, both supposed goals fall flat by continuing to require a monetary cost for the respec tokens. New players still get punished for miss clicks or "wrong" choices early on, and most veterans aren't going to want to spend money on experimenting with anything that isn't "optimal". In the end, the whole thing feels more like an attempt to make a quick buck off of players, and possibly stealth nerf some things along the way.
I was actually kind of excited when I initially heard talk of a skill revamp, but with how it's been handled thus far, the idea now just continues to leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
Sorry but i was only emphasising how things tend to work here. And thats you have zero chance of getting a Zen refund for any respect token purchased regardless of how much time,effort and money you may have sunk into this game in the past. Those are not attributes that Cryptic/PWE value. Well taking your money they do.
Special event token changes as an example ?
But please if you feel this skill revamp is not ness and i do agree with you, voice your concerns and fight for the time/effort and money you have invested.
This is going live with bugs and unbalanced skills no matter how much we resist it.
Look i agree with what you are saying and i'm sorry if it hasn't quite come across that way in my posts. Like you i've spent a lot of money on my account to make my characters fully geared and equipped to handle the content this game offers. And now that time,effort and expense looks to be written off.
1 free pass to try to recreate what this skill tree will reset and no guarantee you can recreate what you currently have.
Make a mistake on this one free pass and what happens hand in your pocket for another respect token.
However Cryptic/PWE have already allocated the resources to this skill revamp its happening whatever our feelings about it.
the usual will happen testing on Tribble and giving feedback will be ignored as per normal unless a game breaking bug is identified, those here on the forums not happy will be ignored, the revamp will go live with bugs, unbalanced powers, powers not working ect as per the 99% of any changes they implement to this game. So expect the next few patches after it goes live to have tweaks for the skill tree.
They won't offer refunds as they see it as an evolution of the game and new content
The point i was trying to make is whether you want this or not its happening and you will not get you a refund.
Although any respect tokens you have purchased or used within the last 6 months should either be given back to use towards the skill tree or credited back.
I appreciate you voicing your concerns on the forum and in no way am i saying you should not or telling you to stop or shut up.
So again i apologise that my posts have been taken in the wrong context by yourself. Its PWE/Cryptic who i have issues with and i don't see them acknowledging your frustration about this skill revamp
And who says you represent the VETS of the game? Did you meet online somewhere with all of the VETS of the game and they voted you to be the leader?
I get you don't like the change. Some people probably share your opinion, but not everyone does. MMOs are constantly changing.
I've been with this game for well over 3 years (since F2P) and I got used to the skill tree we have currently on the holodeck server. In the time I've been with the game, I've seen the following changes to the current systems we have:
Out of all of these, the one that I think got people up in a rage storm to the likes that you show was the reputation revamp. Before the revamp, people could have as many as 16 passive powers up to the Dyson Joint Command reputation and 4 active powers. The idea was to make the level of a fresh level 50 player (remember before the level cap increase) seem to be not as much as a level 50 player who has all the reputations maxed. Sure, people had the ability to move stuff around, but they didn't the change since it meant they couldn't have everything they unlocked. I think eventually people learned to live with it.
You don't have to play the game if you don't like the changes. It's entirely your choice to continue to play this game and/or support it.
Just read the FAQ on the revamp. The above changes are definately welcome. The whole crew compliment/hull regen thing was unnecessarily complicated. Getting rid of abandoned ship is a nice change, too. I've only ever seen it used by people trying to be annoying.