> @huskerklg said:
> Feedback so far is not inspiring any confidence in the changes.
Can you honestly say this is surprising? It's going to be really difficult to replicate a lot of current popular build types. Pretty much feels like they're making it needlessly difficult to have unique builds without sacrificing the stuff we really want.
Not impressed at all.
Um... How can both those things be true?
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I must say, I'm little disappointed. I'm tactic but I'm not a pet person. More or less, the new system fells less free in terms of how I'd like to build my skills. There is much less room for diversity if you wanna have high-end skills there's much more calls to do compromises.
Why is that bad?
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
After testing it out in Tribble, being forced to spend points on skills I DO NOT WANT in order to advance down the tree. Making true tanks are gone the way of the DODO. You can tank, but you can no longer do any real damage. Oh, you want to be a science heavy character, No damage or tanking for you. Wanna be a self tanking DPS, Nope. Hybrid builds are getting thrown out the airlock too.
I admit, I'm still messing with it, but currently, I am not happy. Might as well write down my current skill tree, cause that'll be the last I will ever see of it. Probably remaking it will never happen.
At least they need a tooltip telling you that you have to spend x amount to advance down the tree. And let us pick the skills FIRST and then finalize our choices with a CONFIRM button.
My analysis indicates that the new system punishes hybrids as well. If you are pure tac or pure sci you will be fine and tac will likely be even strong (play tac guys). But specialty and hybrid builds that require careful choice from many different areas will not be possible without a major sacrifice to defense (pssst play tac).
I've said my bit now and will whine some more today then just forget about it. The train has left the station. (oh and did we suggest already PLAY TAC!!!)
So.... you wanna be able to science the **** out of everything and kill to death at the same time, while being able to tank all the aggro you pull without any help from anyone else?
And no-one can see why we need a change in how the game works?
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I've been waiting for a skill revamp for so long, and it's finally (almost) here! It's all still a bit vague to me, like, is there a limit preventing you from unlocking everything. Might have been in the post itself, might already have been asked, might already have been answered, but I'm too tired to check now.
The whole process the devs appear to have gone through sounds comforting though. Can't wait!
so um...all the skill boosts on consoles, engines, deflectors, shields, whatever...what's happening with those since they'll be boosting something that no longer exists?
Yeah its how this system works with gear grind. You revamp something and tell your players how great its going to be. Then the catch 22 is that your old gear will need to be replaced via the never ending gear grind, Is just like them redoing every single art icon to something unrecognizable + add in the 1000's of boffs personally I have that will never be trained because of how badly that system was implemented it pretty much stopped me from playing any alts along with the starship mastery system. So I suspect more of the same with this as another deck of cards piled onto the deck for reason not to bother with this game.
I've turned most of my extra BOff's into Manuals.
It's not perfect (nothing ever is) but it's the wave of the future, so harping on thing's-gone-by, is kinda-sorta futile.
I've been waiting for a skill revamp for so long, and it's finally (almost) here! It's all still a bit vague to me, like, is there a limit preventing you from unlocking everything. Might have been in the post itself, might already have been asked, might already have been answered, but I'm too tired to check now.
The whole process the devs appear to have gone through sounds comforting though. Can't wait!
You are limited to 46 space and 10 ground skill points, and unlike with specializations, you can't unlock everything. Also, ground and space points are entirely separate, so you can't shift points from one type to the other.
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Anyway, seeing as I use all kinds of ships on all kinds of characters, a skill tree that locks me in one more specialised role is definitely against my better judgement.
THIS,
The question that keeps running through my mind is:
If the goal was to reduce the effectiveness of hybrid builds, thereby encouraging us out of our comfort zones and into more specialized builds, Then why have we been getting all these hybrid seating ships at late ?
Won't these changes make us less effective in these hybrid ships and push us towards ships with a more traditional seating?
Along that vein: What about factions that DON'T have a lot of science ship choices then? kdf and roms?
(Sorry my main is a science, so I tend to see everything pretty much from that point of view)
If players weren't discouraged from playing science in these factions before, this has gotta be the nail on the coffin for science for them no?
Oh and one more point:
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but currently doesn't tac skills that buff damage, still buff science skills that do damage too?
I'm wondering if they still will under this new skill tree.
Won't this make tactical captains more effective at some science skills, (the ones that do damage that is) , and sci heavy ship hybrids, then actual science players ?
Yeah, this has been the case all along, I know, but I'm thinking this change might widen that margin with science players being unable to invest in or unlock high end damage skills without compromising their skill path. Doesn't this favor tacs over science then?
IMO all Subscribers should get their Level-Up Respec tokens refunded, and free players get a handful of complimetary tokens.
It's only fair as this is a fundamental rework that invalidates everything we have learned and done for the past 6 years and essentially sending us all back to square one.
You know, I could stand behind this idea, I've spent my fair share on respects to get to where I want to be, and now everything's gonna change again.
I can't even test this out on tribble yet because they want me to start up a new character and at the moment I'm not in the new character making business, I just don't have the fortitude to grind up another character ATM, so I guess I've gotta wait till they allow my current characters to test this.
I know, video games and life change frequently, but then again respects for end game characters aren't exactly cheap anymore, it's not like I can earn them in any other way. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't respects are up to about seven dollars now?
Spending money on more respects wasn't exactly what I wanted/intended to spend more money on right now. Flagships, maybe, more respects no.
Actually, once you finish the tutorial mission, you can head to Drozana station and get XP packs that will boost you right up to 60 in a couple minutes, then you can use the Dilithium and Reputation packs to get equipment.
I thank you for this most useful bit of info.
Really more concerned about testing this on my current characters with all their neat gear, consoles and ships tho, But this is definitely going to give me the ability to poke around a bit. Thanks!
I am extremely disappointed that the Tribble update was broken for me. Not only would Tribble not load up on my Windows 10 laptop, but it locked up my display indefinitely and forced me to kill it with prejudice.
I understand that there may be a workaround, but I am completely disinterested in trying to fiddle with that. I want to know when the bug will be fixed properly so that I can get into Tribble and start testing this new system out, without having to jump through hoops to do it.
Holodeck works fine for me with my current settings and I want to make sure that it continues to do so.
I've been waiting for a skill revamp for so long, and it's finally (almost) here! It's all still a bit vague to me, like, is there a limit preventing you from unlocking everything. Might have been in the post itself, might already have been asked, might already have been answered, but I'm too tired to check now.
The whole process the devs appear to have gone through sounds comforting though. Can't wait!
You will have 46 points for space and 10 for ground. There are 90 space points to and 20 ground points to buy.
You won't be able to unlock everything.
I am extremely disappointed that the Tribble update was broken for me. Not only would Tribble not load up on my Windows 10 laptop, but it locked up my display indefinitely and forced me to kill it with prejudice.
I understand that there may be a workaround, but I am completely disinterested in trying to fiddle with that. I want to know when the bug will be fixed properly so that I can get into Tribble and start testing this new system out, without having to jump through hoops to do it.
Holodeck works fine for me with my current settings and I want to make sure that it continues to do so.
I had no trouble with my Win10 Laptop in updating and loading tribble.
We're proud to announce our new Skill System Revamp! We have set out to create a more streamlined experience that makes gaining levels and skills more enjoyable and impactful.
I see REDSHIRT and TRIBBLE on the game launcher...I updated those both about a week ago but I have not visited either of them yet. Is the new skill system up on either one of those test servers?
Anyway, seeing as I use all kinds of ships on all kinds of characters, a skill tree that locks me in one more specialised role is definitely against my better judgement.[/quote]
I can't see this being the case. I mean isn't selling us ships via the C-store or lock box lotto the primary income of this game. If you lock me into a certain ship type or ship than when you release the next shiny ship where's my incentive or motivation to purchase this ship to use on my character because i can tell you now i won't be obtaining a respect token
I am extremely disappointed that the Tribble update was broken for me. Not only would Tribble not load up on my Windows 10 laptop, but it locked up my display indefinitely and forced me to kill it with prejudice.
I understand that there may be a workaround, but I am completely disinterested in trying to fiddle with that. I want to know when the bug will be fixed properly so that I can get into Tribble and start testing this new system out, without having to jump through hoops to do it.
Holodeck works fine for me with my current settings and I want to make sure that it continues to do so.
I had no trouble with my Win10 Laptop in updating and loading tribble.
That's nice for you. However it doesn't solve my problem, and apparently other people had an issue too. All laptops are not created equal, so one shouldn't assume that the build is universally okay. From what I read the issue may have something to do with DX and hardware support (surprise, surprise).
{sigh} I'll try again next patch and see what happens. I just wanted to know if they were going to release a patch for this problem before next Thursday.
I am extremely disappointed that the Tribble update was broken for me. Not only would Tribble not load up on my Windows 10 laptop, but it locked up my display indefinitely and forced me to kill it with prejudice.
I understand that there may be a workaround, but I am completely disinterested in trying to fiddle with that. I want to know when the bug will be fixed properly so that I can get into Tribble and start testing this new system out, without having to jump through hoops to do it.
Holodeck works fine for me with my current settings and I want to make sure that it continues to do so.
I had no trouble with my Win10 Laptop in updating and loading tribble.
That's nice for you. However it doesn't solve my problem, and apparently other people had an issue too. All laptops are not created equal, so one shouldn't assume that the build is universally okay. From what I read the issue may have something to do with DX and hardware support (surprise, surprise).
{sigh} I'll try again next patch and see what happens. I just wanted to know if they were going to release a patch for this problem before next Thursday.
As far as I know, Tribble patches aren't tied to a weekly Thursday patch. It's Monday so if the bug is in the tribble bug report section, they may have looked at it since coming into the office.
I am extremely disappointed that the Tribble update was broken for me. Not only would Tribble not load up on my Windows 10 laptop, but it locked up my display indefinitely and forced me to kill it with prejudice.
I understand that there may be a workaround, but I am completely disinterested in trying to fiddle with that. I want to know when the bug will be fixed properly so that I can get into Tribble and start testing this new system out, without having to jump through hoops to do it.
Holodeck works fine for me with my current settings and I want to make sure that it continues to do so.
I had no trouble with my Win10 Laptop in updating and loading tribble.
That's nice for you. However it doesn't solve my problem, and apparently other people had an issue too. All laptops are not created equal, so one shouldn't assume that the build is universally okay. From what I read the issue may have something to do with DX and hardware support (surprise, surprise).
{sigh} I'll try again next patch and see what happens. I just wanted to know if they were going to release a patch for this problem before next Thursday.
Try logging into tribble via safe mode ... I had to do that on my PC to get it working ...
To me this is just like any other MMO that changes. Blizzard (WoW) would change their skill tree on each expansion as they added new skills/spells. So each time they got reset, and you had to do it all over again. Then learn/play with it, until you matched something you liked best. They would make adjustments as that expansion went on as well.
Granted you won't access all the stuff, even on WoW you didn't. And you will be using points on useless stuff as well. That is just how it goes.
I'm glad they are redoing it, as its needed. Specially since we are now at Lv60. So some stuff needed to change to match our current game play. Plus I do hope this remove or help you bypass some stuff that would be a waste in points.
Bad part is, you have to adapt and learn your new skill trees and figure out what works best for you.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
To me this is just like any other MMO that changes. Blizzard (WoW) would change their skill tree on each expansion as they added new skills/spells. So each time they got reset, and you had to do it all over again. Then learn/play with it, until you matched something you liked best. They would make adjustments as that expansion went on as well.
Granted you won't access all the stuff, even on WoW you didn't. And you will be using points on useless stuff as well. That is just how it goes.
I'm glad they are redoing it, as its needed. Specially since we are now at Lv60. So some stuff needed to change to match our current game play. Plus I do hope this remove or help you bypass some stuff that would be a waste in points.
Bad part is, you have to adapt and learn your new skill trees and figure out what works best for you.
The thing I hate the most is that the skill tree design is a jumbled mess, as opposed to the neat and organized look of the current system. I like having things straight-forward in a line, not branching off here and there.
Not sure if this was answered but I see some of the BOFF skill recipes are now gone - examples being Torpedo High Yield 3 or Engineering Team 3. Are there new ways to get them?
I'm glad they are redoing it, as its needed. Specially since we are now at Lv60. So some stuff needed to change to match our current game play. Plus I do hope this remove or help you bypass some stuff that would be a waste in points.
Bad part is, you have to adapt and learn your new skill trees and figure out what works best for you.
While parts of it did need revamped (I mean Engineers had to deal with 15 Career space skills while Tac and Sci had 10... and some of their Boff tains required 3-6 bars of a Science skill or two.) it didn't need changed this much and certainly not in a way that limited your ability to be pretty much fully your own career tree plus some spread around in the others a bit, in significantly superior ways to what they're showing us for this one. And you could skip plenty in the current system, I never even bother with 2 of the Tac skills on most of my Tac officers (not a single bar bought) and could still get the Admiral skills bought fully.
The new system is full of locks and far far too many ranks/points required to fill out things. Especially since at least three of the new skills will cost 3 points (possibly six skills, don't know if it will be a 'big one' for each line or just one in each career) and with the lock system will REQUIRE you to learn certain skills in the same rank, where as the current system only needs a certain percentage spent in skills (along with being the right level/rank) to advance to the next skill level, you can completely skip most skills that you don't want. The new system will actually force players to buy skills they might not want out of their trees to acheive the passives and get the 'big' career 3 point cost skills. You won't have a choice since they require 25 points in your career, from the announcment post. That's 25 out of an apparent 45 or 46 (forget) space skill points. And it leaves out 5 of your skills and 3 points more for that big one, leaving you with 13-15 (depending on if the 3 pointer is part of the 90 ranks [30 per career tree] and if it's 45 or 46 for the max) to have to chose between 60 other skills, of which 40 require you to first buy their 'lock' skill, some require 2 lock skills to be bought.
Not sure if this was answered but I see some of the BOFF skill recipes are now gone - examples being Torpedo High Yield 3 or Engineering Team 3. Are there new ways to get them?
Ah, is that on Tribble? Because I know at least on Holodeck I could still train High Yield III as of Feb 22 in the early morning, because I made one.
Have you been to tribble to test this new system out? If you have been there, like I have for the last 8 hours, then you would know what is coming. When this new system goes live some things are going to drastically change.
Right now the trinity is dead, as things are, I do not want your heals, I do not need your heals. I do not want your tank and I do not need your tank.
However... When this new system goes live I may very well need your heals and I may very well need a tank.
Missions... No problem, I will be able to handle the episodes as I always have. But in STFS I am going to need help. Depending on what toon I am on, I may be the one helping.
One of the big things I noticed is how if you go heavy into damage you suffer big time in the area of survivability. BIG TIME. No joke, if I want to maintain the same damage output I have right now, with the new system in place, I am going to lose about 2k shield capacity, half of my shield hardness, going to lose about 10k hull and half of my hull strength. I am also going to take a hit in the subsystem power department, going to lose a lot of drain resistance, flow capacitors, power transfer rate and attack patterns too.
That is a drastic change.
I am going to lose a lot in this deal and not gain anything at all to make up for it. This is what I have learned from my 8 hours on tribble, 6 of those hours was spent getting my toon situated, unlocking reps, levelling up, getting abilities for my boffs, equipping my ship, etc...
I know why they temporarily disabled previously transferred characters. They did not want the feedback, the backlash, the utter riot that would ensue if they let everyone see just how crippling the new system is really going to be. When you run an ISA with your toon and only do half the damage you are used to, either because you could not manage to go full damage because you wanted to live or because you died so many times because you did go full damage, you are going to be very upset.
Things are going to change, the whole game is about to change, the way we played this game is gone. It is time to learn to accept our new reality or bail out.
On a positive note, the ground game is getting a major buff. With just those measly little 10 points I was able to get 40 extra damage out of my weapon and an additional 13% crit hit rate. That is a MAJOR buff for the ground game. And I do not feel as though I lost anything at all in that deal.
So YAY for ground game and totally booooo for space.
From now on I will hold bort strictly to his statement…
“Players Lose Nothing – As much as possible, everything available in the current system will be made available under the new system, and investments in equipment and ships retain full value.”
… but should probably stop fooling myself considering past experiences with Cryptic.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I didnt mind buying "x" points of skills at a lower level to have access to higher level skills but I don have an issue with having to buy specific skills, that I may or may not want, to buy any skill higher up on a skill tree!
Have you been to tribble to test this new system out? If you have been there, like I have for the last 8 hours, then you would know what is coming. When this new system goes live some things are going to drastically change.
Right now the trinity is dead, as things are, I do not want your heals, I do not need your heals. I do not want your tank and I do not need your tank.
However... When this new system goes live I may very well need your heals and I may very well need a tank.
Missions... No problem, I will be able to handle the episodes as I always have. But in STFS I am going to need help. Depending on what toon I am on, I may be the one helping.
One of the big things I noticed is how if you go heavy into damage you suffer big time in the area of survivability. BIG TIME. No joke, if I want to maintain the same damage output I have right now, with the new system in place, I am going to lose about 2k shield capacity, half of my shield hardness, going to lose about 10k hull and half of my hull strength. I am also going to take a hit in the subsystem power department, going to lose a lot of drain resistance, flow capacitors, power transfer rate and attack patterns too.
That is a drastic change.
I am going to lose a lot in this deal and not gain anything at all to make up for it. This is what I have learned from my 8 hours on tribble, 6 of those hours was spent getting my toon situated, unlocking reps, levelling up, getting abilities for my boffs, equipping my ship, etc...
I know why they temporarily disabled previously transferred characters. They did not want the feedback, the backlash, the utter riot that would ensue if they let everyone see just how crippling the new system is really going to be. When you run an ISA with your toon and only do half the damage you are used to, either because you could not manage to go full damage because you wanted to live or because you died so many times because you did go full damage, you are going to be very upset.
Things are going to change, the whole game is about to change, the way we played this game is gone. It is time to learn to accept our new reality or bail out.
On a positive note, the ground game is getting a major buff. With just those measly little 10 points I was able to get 40 extra damage out of my weapon and an additional 13% crit hit rate. That is a MAJOR buff for the ground game. And I do not feel as though I lost anything at all in that deal.
So YAY for ground game and totally booooo for space.
With a game that is cursed with some of the most spoiled players I think I've ever known, I feel that crippling the system like this is GOOD! The name of the game should be PAPER / ROCK / SCISSORS so that the game cannot be utterly dominated by simply maximizing DPS spam. (I'm sorry, but that ruins the potential of the full spectrum of the game, think about it). With a system like described above, it is more realistic and makes more features of one's ship and skills more necessary and thus, more valuable.
To me this is just like any other MMO that changes. Blizzard (WoW) would change their skill tree on each expansion as they added new skills/spells. So each time they got reset, and you had to do it all over again. Then learn/play with it, until you matched something you liked best. They would make adjustments as that expansion went on as well.
Granted you won't access all the stuff, even on WoW you didn't. And you will be using points on useless stuff as well. That is just how it goes.
I'm glad they are redoing it, as its needed. Specially since we are now at Lv60. So some stuff needed to change to match our current game play. Plus I do hope this remove or help you bypass some stuff that would be a waste in points.
Bad part is, you have to adapt and learn your new skill trees and figure out what works best for you.
The thing I hate the most is that the skill tree design is a jumbled mess, as opposed to the neat and organized look of the current system. I like having things straight-forward in a line, not branching off here and there.
If done right the branching is ok. Going by the current set up with the pilot, command, and commando skills. Some of there I skip around as well as I don't want some of those. And still open up the next tier. They said they will sort out some of the skills better with the feedback they are getting. Plus they can easily change it around later if they want to.
I hadn't saw the tree fully, however we should do fine with it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
One of the big things I noticed is how if you go heavy into damage you suffer big time in the area of survivability. BIG TIME. No joke, if I want to maintain the same damage output I have right now, with the new system in place, I am going to lose about 2k shield capacity, half of my shield hardness, going to lose about 10k hull and half of my hull strength. I am also going to take a hit in the subsystem power department, going to lose a lot of drain resistance, flow capacitors, power transfer rate and attack patterns too.
That is a drastic change.
I am going to lose a lot in this deal and not gain anything at all to make up for it. This is what I have learned from my 8 hours on tribble, 6 of those hours was spent getting my toon situated, unlocking reps, levelling up, getting abilities for my boffs, equipping my ship, etc...
^^ Quoted For Truth.
The nerf is HUGE. 'Core' skills, like maxed out shields (regens, hardness, cap), and maxed out hull (regens, cap, hardness, and hullplating), all of these will take an enornous hit under the new paradigm, assuming I want to maintain the same Tactical advantages I enjoyed before.
Other 'core' skills, like Warp Core Efficiency and/or Warp Core Potential, you can pretty much kiss those goodbye too. And I thought I could skimp out on all the Crowd Control stuff, like Subspace Decompiler; but guess what? They added Gravens to that category too, so now I maybe got some partgens left, but without gravens, that will be a major nerf too.
I'm getting the impression this was all done very deliberately, to purposely/disingenuous kill 'Jack of all trades' skill specs. As an Engineer, I think we will suffer the most. To maintain what I had, in terms of survivability, Bort basically wants me to give up everything Tactical.
Right now the trinity is dead, as things are, I do not want your heals, I do not need your heals. I do not want your tank and I do not need your tank.
However... When this new system goes live I may very well need your heals and I may very well need a tank.
Missions... No problem, I will be able to handle the episodes as I always have. But in STFS I am going to need help. Depending on what toon I am on, I may be the one helping.
Except you're not getting my help. None whatsoever. Or rather, I'll have nothing to give, as all 'outgoing' heals were the first I needed to let go of entirely to come up with an even remotely comparable Offensive skill tree.
Is this what Bort wanted?! The Trinity was dead. But that was a good thing, really, as the Devs have always favored Tactical disproportionally as it was; but at least, as an Engineer, I could have a more-or-less Offensive build too. No longer the case, unless I'm willing to give up half my survivability.
And now will come the crowd that starts telling me how cool it is to have real 'choices' now; or that I really didn't need the survivability; or that I should just L2P, and and yada, yada, yada. But the simple fact of the matter is, that this new system constitutes a MAJOR nerf.
I'm glad they are redoing it, as its needed. Specially since we are now at Lv60. So some stuff needed to change to match our current game play. Plus I do hope this remove or help you bypass some stuff that would be a waste in points.
Bad part is, you have to adapt and learn your new skill trees and figure out what works best for you.
While parts of it did need revamped (I mean Engineers had to deal with 15 Career space skills while Tac and Sci had 10... and some of their Boff tains required 3-6 bars of a Science skill or two.) it didn't need changed this much and certainly not in a way that limited your ability to be pretty much fully your own career tree plus some spread around in the others a bit, in significantly superior ways to what they're showing us for this one. And you could skip plenty in the current system, I never even bother with 2 of the Tac skills on most of my Tac officers (not a single bar bought) and could still get the Admiral skills bought fully.
The new system is full of locks and far far too many ranks/points required to fill out things. Especially since at least three of the new skills will cost 3 points (possibly six skills, don't know if it will be a 'big one' for each line or just one in each career) and with the lock system will REQUIRE you to learn certain skills in the same rank, where as the current system only needs a certain percentage spent in skills (along with being the right level/rank) to advance to the next skill level, you can completely skip most skills that you don't want. The new system will actually force players to buy skills they might not want out of their trees to acheive the passives and get the 'big' career 3 point cost skills. You won't have a choice since they require 25 points in your career, from the announcment post. That's 25 out of an apparent 45 or 46 (forget) space skill points. And it leaves out 5 of your skills and 3 points more for that big one, leaving you with 13-15 (depending on if the 3 pointer is part of the 90 ranks [30 per career tree] and if it's 45 or 46 for the max) to have to chose between 60 other skills, of which 40 require you to first buy their 'lock' skill, some require 2 lock skills to be bought.
Even with the old system I had to buy stuff I didn't want or put in way too much just to get to the next tier. So even the old system wasn't all that good. Only part I like about the old system, I had more freedom on where I wanted to put them. Other bad part about the old one, was ground. The ground was horrible as you didn't have much choices there.
So to me the new system is very much needed. Plus I wanted ground to be separated from space skill points.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Have you been to tribble to test this new system out? If you have been there, like I have for the last 8 hours, then you would know what is coming. When this new system goes live some things are going to drastically change.
Right now the trinity is dead, as things are, I do not want your heals, I do not need your heals. I do not want your tank and I do not need your tank.
However... When this new system goes live I may very well need your heals and I may very well need a tank.
Missions... No problem, I will be able to handle the episodes as I always have. But in STFS I am going to need help. Depending on what toon I am on, I may be the one helping.
One of the big things I noticed is how if you go heavy into damage you suffer big time in the area of survivability. BIG TIME. No joke, if I want to maintain the same damage output I have right now, with the new system in place, I am going to lose about 2k shield capacity, half of my shield hardness, going to lose about 10k hull and half of my hull strength. I am also going to take a hit in the subsystem power department, going to lose a lot of drain resistance, flow capacitors, power transfer rate and attack patterns too.
That is a drastic change.
I am going to lose a lot in this deal and not gain anything at all to make up for it. This is what I have learned from my 8 hours on tribble, 6 of those hours was spent getting my toon situated, unlocking reps, levelling up, getting abilities for my boffs, equipping my ship, etc...
I know why they temporarily disabled previously transferred characters. They did not want the feedback, the backlash, the utter riot that would ensue if they let everyone see just how crippling the new system is really going to be. When you run an ISA with your toon and only do half the damage you are used to, either because you could not manage to go full damage because you wanted to live or because you died so many times because you did go full damage, you are going to be very upset.
Things are going to change, the whole game is about to change, the way we played this game is gone. It is time to learn to accept our new reality or bail out.
On a positive note, the ground game is getting a major buff. With just those measly little 10 points I was able to get 40 extra damage out of my weapon and an additional 13% crit hit rate. That is a MAJOR buff for the ground game. And I do not feel as though I lost anything at all in that deal.
So YAY for ground game and totally booooo for space.
From now on I will hold bort strictly to his statement…
“Players Lose Nothing – As much as possible, everything available in the current system will be made available under the new system, and investments in equipment and ships retain full value.”
… but should probably stop fooling myself considering past experiences with Cryptic.
Sounds like a very spoiled player.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Comments
Um... How can both those things be true?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Why is that bad?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
So.... you wanna be able to science the **** out of everything and kill to death at the same time, while being able to tank all the aggro you pull without any help from anyone else?
And no-one can see why we need a change in how the game works?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
The whole process the devs appear to have gone through sounds comforting though. Can't wait!
And futile, resistance is.
Wait, I'm mixing franchises here
I'm so sorry...
You are limited to 46 space and 10 ground skill points, and unlike with specializations, you can't unlock everything. Also, ground and space points are entirely separate, so you can't shift points from one type to the other.
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"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
THIS,
The question that keeps running through my mind is:
If the goal was to reduce the effectiveness of hybrid builds, thereby encouraging us out of our comfort zones and into more specialized builds, Then why have we been getting all these hybrid seating ships at late ?
Won't these changes make us less effective in these hybrid ships and push us towards ships with a more traditional seating?
Along that vein: What about factions that DON'T have a lot of science ship choices then? kdf and roms?
(Sorry my main is a science, so I tend to see everything pretty much from that point of view)
If players weren't discouraged from playing science in these factions before, this has gotta be the nail on the coffin for science for them no?
Oh and one more point:
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but currently doesn't tac skills that buff damage, still buff science skills that do damage too?
I'm wondering if they still will under this new skill tree.
Won't this make tactical captains more effective at some science skills, (the ones that do damage that is) , and sci heavy ship hybrids, then actual science players ?
Yeah, this has been the case all along, I know, but I'm thinking this change might widen that margin with science players being unable to invest in or unlock high end damage skills without compromising their skill path. Doesn't this favor tacs over science then?
I thank you for this most useful bit of info.
Really more concerned about testing this on my current characters with all their neat gear, consoles and ships tho, But this is definitely going to give me the ability to poke around a bit. Thanks!
I understand that there may be a workaround, but I am completely disinterested in trying to fiddle with that. I want to know when the bug will be fixed properly so that I can get into Tribble and start testing this new system out, without having to jump through hoops to do it.
Holodeck works fine for me with my current settings and I want to make sure that it continues to do so.
You will have 46 points for space and 10 for ground. There are 90 space points to and 20 ground points to buy.
You won't be able to unlock everything.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I had no trouble with my Win10 Laptop in updating and loading tribble.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I see REDSHIRT and TRIBBLE on the game launcher...I updated those both about a week ago but I have not visited either of them yet. Is the new skill system up on either one of those test servers?
Anyway, seeing as I use all kinds of ships on all kinds of characters, a skill tree that locks me in one more specialised role is definitely against my better judgement.[/quote]
I can't see this being the case. I mean isn't selling us ships via the C-store or lock box lotto the primary income of this game. If you lock me into a certain ship type or ship than when you release the next shiny ship where's my incentive or motivation to purchase this ship to use on my character because i can tell you now i won't be obtaining a respect token
That's nice for you. However it doesn't solve my problem, and apparently other people had an issue too. All laptops are not created equal, so one shouldn't assume that the build is universally okay. From what I read the issue may have something to do with DX and hardware support (surprise, surprise).
{sigh} I'll try again next patch and see what happens. I just wanted to know if they were going to release a patch for this problem before next Thursday.
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As far as I know, Tribble patches aren't tied to a weekly Thursday patch. It's Monday so if the bug is in the tribble bug report section, they may have looked at it since coming into the office.
Try logging into tribble via safe mode ... I had to do that on my PC to get it working ...
Granted you won't access all the stuff, even on WoW you didn't. And you will be using points on useless stuff as well. That is just how it goes.
I'm glad they are redoing it, as its needed. Specially since we are now at Lv60. So some stuff needed to change to match our current game play. Plus I do hope this remove or help you bypass some stuff that would be a waste in points.
Bad part is, you have to adapt and learn your new skill trees and figure out what works best for you.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The thing I hate the most is that the skill tree design is a jumbled mess, as opposed to the neat and organized look of the current system. I like having things straight-forward in a line, not branching off here and there.
While parts of it did need revamped (I mean Engineers had to deal with 15 Career space skills while Tac and Sci had 10... and some of their Boff tains required 3-6 bars of a Science skill or two.) it didn't need changed this much and certainly not in a way that limited your ability to be pretty much fully your own career tree plus some spread around in the others a bit, in significantly superior ways to what they're showing us for this one. And you could skip plenty in the current system, I never even bother with 2 of the Tac skills on most of my Tac officers (not a single bar bought) and could still get the Admiral skills bought fully.
The new system is full of locks and far far too many ranks/points required to fill out things. Especially since at least three of the new skills will cost 3 points (possibly six skills, don't know if it will be a 'big one' for each line or just one in each career) and with the lock system will REQUIRE you to learn certain skills in the same rank, where as the current system only needs a certain percentage spent in skills (along with being the right level/rank) to advance to the next skill level, you can completely skip most skills that you don't want. The new system will actually force players to buy skills they might not want out of their trees to acheive the passives and get the 'big' career 3 point cost skills. You won't have a choice since they require 25 points in your career, from the announcment post. That's 25 out of an apparent 45 or 46 (forget) space skill points. And it leaves out 5 of your skills and 3 points more for that big one, leaving you with 13-15 (depending on if the 3 pointer is part of the 90 ranks [30 per career tree] and if it's 45 or 46 for the max) to have to chose between 60 other skills, of which 40 require you to first buy their 'lock' skill, some require 2 lock skills to be bought.
Ah, is that on Tribble? Because I know at least on Holodeck I could still train High Yield III as of Feb 22 in the early morning, because I made one.
From now on I will hold bort strictly to his statement…
“Players Lose Nothing – As much as possible, everything available in the current system will be made available under the new system, and investments in equipment and ships retain full value.”
… but should probably stop fooling myself considering past experiences with Cryptic.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
With a game that is cursed with some of the most spoiled players I think I've ever known, I feel that crippling the system like this is GOOD! The name of the game should be PAPER / ROCK / SCISSORS so that the game cannot be utterly dominated by simply maximizing DPS spam. (I'm sorry, but that ruins the potential of the full spectrum of the game, think about it). With a system like described above, it is more realistic and makes more features of one's ship and skills more necessary and thus, more valuable.
If done right the branching is ok. Going by the current set up with the pilot, command, and commando skills. Some of there I skip around as well as I don't want some of those. And still open up the next tier. They said they will sort out some of the skills better with the feedback they are getting. Plus they can easily change it around later if they want to.
I hadn't saw the tree fully, however we should do fine with it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
^^ Quoted For Truth.
The nerf is HUGE. 'Core' skills, like maxed out shields (regens, hardness, cap), and maxed out hull (regens, cap, hardness, and hullplating), all of these will take an enornous hit under the new paradigm, assuming I want to maintain the same Tactical advantages I enjoyed before.
Other 'core' skills, like Warp Core Efficiency and/or Warp Core Potential, you can pretty much kiss those goodbye too. And I thought I could skimp out on all the Crowd Control stuff, like Subspace Decompiler; but guess what? They added Gravens to that category too, so now I maybe got some partgens left, but without gravens, that will be a major nerf too.
I'm getting the impression this was all done very deliberately, to purposely/disingenuous kill 'Jack of all trades' skill specs. As an Engineer, I think we will suffer the most. To maintain what I had, in terms of survivability, Bort basically wants me to give up everything Tactical.
Except you're not getting my help. None whatsoever. Or rather, I'll have nothing to give, as all 'outgoing' heals were the first I needed to let go of entirely to come up with an even remotely comparable Offensive skill tree.
Is this what Bort wanted?! The Trinity was dead. But that was a good thing, really, as the Devs have always favored Tactical disproportionally as it was; but at least, as an Engineer, I could have a more-or-less Offensive build too. No longer the case, unless I'm willing to give up half my survivability.
And now will come the crowd that starts telling me how cool it is to have real 'choices' now; or that I really didn't need the survivability; or that I should just L2P, and and yada, yada, yada. But the simple fact of the matter is, that this new system constitutes a MAJOR nerf.
I assure you, I will not be 'eating crow' soon.
Even with the old system I had to buy stuff I didn't want or put in way too much just to get to the next tier. So even the old system wasn't all that good. Only part I like about the old system, I had more freedom on where I wanted to put them. Other bad part about the old one, was ground. The ground was horrible as you didn't have much choices there.
So to me the new system is very much needed. Plus I wanted ground to be separated from space skill points.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Sounds like a very spoiled player.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.