Cumberbatch was fantastically vast as Harrison who happened to take the Name Kahn that Spock Prime an the audiences just assumed was the same Khan without any evidence other than a common name. A name that serves as a title as well as a name.
And it was just a coincidence that he just happened to be a genetically enhanced superman? I think not. Star Trek.com lists him as "Khan Noonien Singh". No assumption is necessary as to who the character is. It was made quite clear.
His point to consider is that the "Noonien Singh" isn't referenced in the movie (at least that I recall.) It may be clear from other material (ex. websites, interviews) that Khan=Khan but it is possible to make the less parsimonious interpretation that he isn't necessarily, and Khan could (without specific refutation of this idea) be a more general epithet of eugenics-era rulers (though again that is not the intention of the film makers.)
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Personally, I think the degree of Khan's anger and defiance when he gives his name in Into Darkness is rage at Marcus for not just taking his identity but his appearance. I suspect Cumberbatch realized that the casting of the role was sensitive and thought it through to realize how violated Khan would feel at being made to wear the face of what would be to him a historical oppressor. I think that if they had actually allowed Khan to vent his anger at this outright on screen in dialogue, the complaining about the casting would have been diminished. It should not require Countdown or our inferences as viewers to even suspect this was the case IMO, but I do suspect the possibility.
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My issue with most of the complaints the JJ verse is that they are extremely hypocritical. Every complaint leveled against the series has an example in the prime universe. Plot holes in STID? There's never been plot holes in the prime universe? How come Kirk doesn't just sling shot around the sun and go back in time and save Spock? Ignoring stuff that happened before? How come Zefram Cochrane's story in TOS doesn't match up with First Contact? STID was just a copy of WoK? Yeah because Star Trek never copied itself. OMG they didn't even cast the right race for Khan...like Ricardo Montalban was the right race?
It is well within everyone's right to like and dislike whatever they want but if you start to call out stuff that happened in in the prime universe....I see hypocracy.
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Cumberbatch was fantastically vast as Harrison who happened to take the Name Kahn that Spock Prime an the audiences just assumed was the same Khan without any evidence other than a common name. A name that serves as a title as well as a name.
And it was just a coincidence that he just happened to be a genetically enhanced superman? I think not. Star Trek.com lists him as "Khan Noonien Singh". No assumption is necessary as to who the character is. It was made quite clear.
This is true. And while it should have been explained in the movie itself, there is a great comic that gives his backstory with Marcus and why he does not look like the historical photo of Khan:
Khan Noonien Singh was genetically engineered. Presumably, his genes were drawn from the best available donors. Why should his apparent ethnicity, if any, have any relation whatsoever to his name? It's not like he was like most of us, born almost accidentally to mere humans breeding the old-fashioned way and naming their own offspring...
Khan5000...when it comes to the casting I admit I do have higher expectations of the 21st century than I do the 1960s. Then again part of why I am not a big TOS fan is because of the misogyny (it's not revolutionary) as evidenced by things like the miniskirts, Kirk's womanizing, the "women can't be captain," and making Uhura, until the movie era, do nothing but "answer the space phone," as it was described by Big Bang Theory. I would almost rather they have gone male-only than the patronizing stuff they actually did (though I do give credit for the pilot episode where they tried to get the networks and public to accept a female XO).
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My issue with most of the complaints the JJ verse is that they are extremely hypocritical. Every complaint leveled against the series has an example in the prime universe. Plot holes in STID? There's never been plot holes in the prime universe? How come Kirk doesn't just sling shot around the sun and go back in time and save Spock? Ignoring stuff that happened before? How come Zefram Cochrane's story in TOS doesn't match up with First Contact? STID was just a copy of WoK? Yeah because Star Trek never copied itself. OMG they didn't even cast the right race for Khan...like Ricardo Montalban was the right race?
It is well within everyone's right to like and dislike whatever they want but if you start to call out stuff that happened in in the prime universe....I see hypocracy.
Speaking from how I've been criticizing into darkness the question is not whether or not plot holes and narrative convenience happen (I did say this previously) its how and how frequently those are applied. If you take the absolute stance that because everything is, when you get right down to it, just made up (and doesn't contain the absolute truth of events) then it becomes impossible to say whether or a given movie works. You therefore don't really have to have anything to say (not being dismissive, I'm just trying to explain why you probably shouldn't bee too be concerned about this) about the topic about just how good of a movie (with respect to its narrative function) works. So it shouldn't bother you one bit if other people take the other view that there is something to say about it. Its just splitting hairs about "the impact" of something everything has.
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Khan Noonien Singh was genetically engineered. Presumably, his genes were drawn from the best available donors. Why should his apparent ethnicity, if any, have any relation whatsoever to his name? It's not like he was like most of us, born almost accidentally to mere humans breeding the old-fashioned way and naming their own offspring...
Perhaps the idea that a "superman" turns out to be the whitest man this side of an albino is the problem.
Rambow, that's why I like to think part of Khan's anger at Marcus was for stealing his face and voice and not just for taking his name and forcing him into servitude.
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People need to remember that I like ST2009. It's stupid but I still liked it. I still think that ID is a steaming pile regardless of the cries of "HYPOCRISY".
Rambow, that's why I like to think part of Khan's anger at Marcus was for stealing his face and voice and not just for taking his name and forcing him into servitude.
That's not a terrible idea if not for the fact that, as I think I've said in the past, it really doesn't make much sense for Marcus to have done that.
Guy on the street: "Hey, that guy kind of looks like Khan Singh. OH MY GOD THAT MEANS IT MUST BE KHAN SINGH!"
Doesn't exactly follow through. Kirk's era is more than two hundred years removed from the Eugenics Wars; anyone seeing Khan's real face would just assume that it's a guy who happens to look like Khan, rather than actually being Khan. If they even recognized him at all, that is.
Rambow, that's why I like to think part of Khan's anger at Marcus was for stealing his face and voice and not just for taking his name and forcing him into servitude.
That's not a terrible idea if not for the fact that, as I think I've said in the past, it really doesn't make much sense for Marcus to have done that.
Guy on the street: "Hey, that guy kind of looks like Khan Singh. OH MY GOD THAT MEANS IT MUST BE KHAN SINGH!"
Doesn't exactly follow through. Kirk's era is more than two hundred years removed from the Eugenics Wars; anyone seeing Khan's real face would just assume that it's a guy who happens to look like Khan, rather than actually being Khan. If they even recognized him at all, that is.
The motivation was not so other people wouldn't recognize Khan, but so he wouldn't recognize himself. They wiped his memory and wanted to use him as a super soldier/secret agent. But they knew the memory wipe wasn't perfect or permanent, and they didn't want him looking in the mirror and remembering:
However, it deprives Khan of an easy way to get it across to people who he really is and to do anything to either a) get anyone he interacts with to believe that he is a captive of Marcus (this increases the victimization and sense of helplessness) or b) rally any remaining closeted followers (descendants of the original ones). I also think the seriousness of the physical and psychological violation to Khan himself cannot be underestimated, and as with various other forms of torture and violation, can be a TRIBBLE's method of gaining power over the victim. (And Marcus would be most interested in gaining such power given how serious of a threat of rebellion Khan's enhancements entail.)
Note that I do not think Khan is absolved of his past or other deeds, but this does potentially add a dimension to the character.
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My issue with most of the complaints the JJ verse is that they are extremely hypocritical. Every complaint leveled against the series has an example in the prime universe. Plot holes in STID? There's never been plot holes in the prime universe? How come Kirk doesn't just sling shot around the sun and go back in time and save Spock? Ignoring stuff that happened before? How come Zefram Cochrane's story in TOS doesn't match up with First Contact? STID was just a copy of WoK? Yeah because Star Trek never copied itself. OMG they didn't even cast the right race for Khan...like Ricardo Montalban was the right race?
It is well within everyone's right to like and dislike whatever they want but if you start to call out stuff that happened in in the prime universe....I see hypocracy.
Speaking from how I've been criticizing into darkness the question is not whether or not plot holes and narrative convenience happen (I did say this previously) its how and how frequently those are applied. If you take the absolute stance that because everything is, when you get right down to it, just made up (and doesn't contain the absolute truth of events) then it becomes impossible to say whether or a given movie works. You therefore don't really have to have anything to say (not being dismissive, I'm just trying to explain why you probably shouldn't bee too be concerned about this) about the topic about just how good of a movie (with respect to its narrative function) works. So it shouldn't bother you one bit if other people take the other view that there is something to say about it. Its just splitting hairs about "the impact" of something everything has.
I kinda get the impression that your overall main gripe is that the movie has blanks you need to fill in with your imagination...
Pegg apparently didn't like it. A bit reassuring I guess.
His comment was very reassuring, to me. The assertion that the trailer is not exactly representative of the story (or lack thereof) gives me hope that I will find more to like about the film than just having the Star Trek name.
I won't accept the view (which, again is inconsistent with how we treat the world today, see. the reference to the defunct Platonism) that the world is just a matter of opinion.
No, the entire world is not a matter of opinion; that is true. There are some things that are facts and can actually be proven. Unfortunately for you, whether a movie is good or bad isn't one of them. Therefore, no matter how many times you post or how long your post is, nothing you can ever say will ever prove you right on this issue. At the end of the day, after all is said, you will only be as right/wrong as every other random joe who has an opinion about a movie. But that shouldn't bother you. You shouldn't have some psychological need to try to change someone's mind about a movie. How I feel about the JJ-movies(which I have not actually said in this thread) is all that matters in my life. Whether you agree/disagree/etc makes no difference to my experience.
Only one prototype built, destroyed in the crash, and if Scotty wanted to build another he'd have to start from scratch because I seem to recall S31 had taken all his notes on the topic.
Which shouldn't've have made any difference... In 09, Scotty was able to construct a transwarp transporter from existing components... He was supposed to be a miracle worker... Taking away his research notes should have no impact on his personal ability to recreate the technology: A chef does not need a written recipe to recreate a meal he created and or devised... By comparison, Tony Stark was able to build a miniaturized arc reactor in a cave, with a bunch of scraps... That the prototype was destroyed in the flyer's crash, understandable. That he couldn't modify anything else or build a new one, is a plotting error (as was Sulu's incompetence in failing to disengage the external inertial dampener...) (At least when the Doctor 'leaves the handbrake on', it's for a reason -- he likes the noise it makes... )
I won't accept the view (which, again is inconsistent with how we treat the world today, see. the reference to the defunct Platonism) that the world is just a matter of opinion.
No, the entire world is not a matter of opinion; that is true. There are some things that are facts and can actually be proven. Unfortunately for you, whether a movie is good or bad isn't one of them. Therefore, no matter how many times you post or how long your post is, nothing you can ever say will ever prove you right on this issue. At the end of the day, after all is said, you will only be as right/wrong as every other random joe who has an opinion about a movie. But that shouldn't bother you. You shouldn't have some psychological need to try to change someone's mind about a movie. How I feel about the JJ-movies(which I have not actually said in this thread) is all that matters in my life. Whether you agree/disagree/etc makes no difference to my experience.
I kinda get the impression that your overall main gripe is that the movie has blanks you need to fill in with your imagination...
Pretty much. There's the framework of a fun movie here but the movie itself doesn't do enough to fill it out. There's undoubtedly a neat way of reinterpreting the Khan plot in the reboot universe but, as strong as that could be, the presentation in Into Darkness really doesn't make the most of it. Maybe its more a stylistic choice to purposefully leave big important things out of a movie in favor of other stuff (that has to happen at some level, it's not often you see a totally complete series of events happen in real time) but I think the choices as to what to include and not to include are highly questionable.
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I liked "Into Darkness" on some levels, and that's coming from someone who isn't sold on the JJ-verse. That doesn't mean I liked everything about the movie or that it didn't have what I'd regard as serious weaknesses. Or even that I really want to see it again.
(I don't. Among other things, Khan squishing Marcus' skull like something out of a sci-fi horror movie was something I don't need to see more than once. Cumberbatch's brutal performance is easily disturbing enough to give me the willies.)
But I don't get the rush to pre-judge Beyond on the basis of ID or have an 8 page argument about it. If people want to rehash ID again, I wish they'd go start another thread to do it in.
This is about the trailer, which I think most of us probably agree was not a good trailer from a fan's point of view. Based on Simon Pegg's comment, I'm content to wait and see. We all know the original proposed screenplay was rewritten by different writers and the movie was directed by somebody who isn't JJ Abrams, so there's at least a chance that the new movie is truly something different and maybe not horrible.
I just wish the trailer had given a little bit more clue as to what the movie is about. I can't put anything I saw in that trailer into any meaningful context.
But I don't get the rush to pre-judge Beyond on the basis of ID.
It's context which suggests that one shouldn't take the trailer at face value (obvious general rule but there's specific application here). It can be argued that the previous movie had problems when you got down to the level of scenes and dialog. You can construct a trailer from ID and present it as a compelling, coherent, self-consistent mystery but over the broad sweep of its implementation you might have something which is much more haphazard and arbitrary.
So while Beyond might have some good story points in its favor from what we've seen so far (as brought up), its worth avoiding pre-judging it on the basis of the trailer. There's a significant unknown factor in the quality of the writing (a point which some people took exception to) which has been a debatable problem through the reboots and worth keeping in mind now so we can most reasonably react to what we just saw.
Could be cool, but we need to see more.
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Cumberbatch was fantastically vast as Harrison who happened to take the Name Kahn that Spock Prime an the audiences just assumed was the same Khan without any evidence other than a common name. A name that serves as a title as well as a name.
And it was just a coincidence that he just happened to be a genetically enhanced superman? I think not. Star Trek.com lists him as "Khan Noonien Singh". No assumption is necessary as to who the character is. It was made quite clear.
Um, you know what the Augments are right? Genetically enhanced superman, all of them. Also, Star Trek.com is not canon.
Personally, I think the degree of Khan's anger and defiance when he gives his name in Into Darkness is rage at Marcus for not just taking his identity but his appearance. I suspect Cumberbatch realized that the casting of the role was sensitive and thought it through to realize how violated Khan would feel at being made to wear the face of what would be to him a historical oppressor. I think that if they had actually allowed Khan to vent his anger at this outright on screen in dialogue, the complaining about the casting would have been diminished. It should not require Countdown or our inferences as viewers to even suspect this was the case IMO, but I do suspect the possibility.
As opposed to his normal Mexican face? I find the whole idea of the cosmetic surgery thing a silly over complication anyway, as much as a blight 'Prophet and Lace' is it still presents a world where body swaps can be under taken in hours.
This is true. And while it should have been explained in the movie itself, there is a great comic that gives his backstory with Marcus and why he does not look like the historical photo of Khan:
Not canon and a stupid over complication trying to justify why an Indian named Mexican from South East Asia now has the appearance of a white Englishman.
I doubt S31 would be stupid enough to even attempt this sort of plan, look at the way they went about recruiting the non-super-powered Augment, Doctor Bashir
People need to remember that I like ST2009. It's stupid but I still liked it. I still think that ID is a steaming pile regardless of the cries of "HYPOCRISY"
Even though the only bits you've pointed out as not liking are simply based on you not remembering TOS?
Note that I do not think Khan is absolved of his past or other deeds, but this does potentially add a dimension to the character.
This Khan (or rather Harrison) is already a fully fleshed out character unlike the ridiculously 2D Khan from 'Space Seed' and TWOK. He has loyalty, compassion, intelligence, motives, abilities, cunning, and acts exactly as you'd imagine a super-powered warlord to act.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
You can construct a trailer from ID and present it as a compelling, coherent, self-consistent mystery but over the broad sweep of its implementation you might have something which is much more haphazard and arbitrary.
This sentence made me laugh. Not because its' meaning was humorous, but because it is written in such a flamboyant way. Your posts over the last few pages have reminded me of one timeless truth: brevity is the soul of wit.
So...what? Not being canon does not mean something isn't correct. Your posts aren't canon either. So if you think that just because something isn't canon that it can't be correct, then nothing you say is correct. But even tossing canon aside, ST.com > your opinion. You don't have to agree with what ST.com says, but it definitely carries more weight than random joe on a video game forum.
So...what? Not being canon does not mean something isn't correct. Your posts aren't canon either. So if you think that just because something isn't canon that it can't be correct, then nothing you say is correct. But even tossing canon aside, ST.com > your opinion. You don't have to agree with what ST.com says, but it definitely carries more weight than random joe on a video game forum.
No, no it doesn't. As far as the film Star Trek: Into Darkness is concerned his name is Khan, that's it, no middle name, no surname. There is only canon and non-canon, canon has degrees of weighting non-canon doesn't.
Um, you know what the Augments are right? Genetically enhanced superman, all of them. Also, Star Trek.com is not canon.
Not all of them were named Khan Noonien Singh, were they? It's painfully obvious who the character was in the film. And if you don't believe that the official Star Trek site reflects canon information, I don't know what to tell you.
Only one was, the guy from 'Space Seed'. It's painfully obvious Harrison used the name Khan, that's it. You're welcome to believe it's the same guy and come up with any number of ridiculous reasons why he looks white and not Mexican, but the fact remains he is not named or credited as Khan Noonien Singh. It doesn't matter if it reflects it or not, it's still not canon. I don't care if the ghost of Roddenberry writes it in letters of fire in the sky, if it's not onscreen it's not canon. Draw your own conclusions.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Oh I get it. You don't understand the concept of canon. Shame.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
His point to consider is that the "Noonien Singh" isn't referenced in the movie (at least that I recall.) It may be clear from other material (ex. websites, interviews) that Khan=Khan but it is possible to make the less parsimonious interpretation that he isn't necessarily, and Khan could (without specific refutation of this idea) be a more general epithet of eugenics-era rulers (though again that is not the intention of the film makers.)
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It is well within everyone's right to like and dislike whatever they want but if you start to call out stuff that happened in in the prime universe....I see hypocracy.
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This is true. And while it should have been explained in the movie itself, there is a great comic that gives his backstory with Marcus and why he does not look like the historical photo of Khan:
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Khan-Mike-Johnson/dp/1613778953/
Here are a few key pages:
http://imgur.com/a/zAlz9
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Speaking from how I've been criticizing into darkness the question is not whether or not plot holes and narrative convenience happen (I did say this previously) its how and how frequently those are applied. If you take the absolute stance that because everything is, when you get right down to it, just made up (and doesn't contain the absolute truth of events) then it becomes impossible to say whether or a given movie works. You therefore don't really have to have anything to say (not being dismissive, I'm just trying to explain why you probably shouldn't bee too be concerned about this) about the topic about just how good of a movie (with respect to its narrative function) works. So it shouldn't bother you one bit if other people take the other view that there is something to say about it. Its just splitting hairs about "the impact" of something everything has.
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Perhaps the idea that a "superman" turns out to be the whitest man this side of an albino is the problem.
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I would have liked the movie more that's for sure.
That's not a terrible idea if not for the fact that, as I think I've said in the past, it really doesn't make much sense for Marcus to have done that.
Guy on the street: "Hey, that guy kind of looks like Khan Singh. OH MY GOD THAT MEANS IT MUST BE KHAN SINGH!"
Doesn't exactly follow through. Kirk's era is more than two hundred years removed from the Eugenics Wars; anyone seeing Khan's real face would just assume that it's a guy who happens to look like Khan, rather than actually being Khan. If they even recognized him at all, that is.
The motivation was not so other people wouldn't recognize Khan, but so he wouldn't recognize himself. They wiped his memory and wanted to use him as a super soldier/secret agent. But they knew the memory wipe wasn't perfect or permanent, and they didn't want him looking in the mirror and remembering:
http://imgur.com/a/zAlz9
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Note that I do not think Khan is absolved of his past or other deeds, but this does potentially add a dimension to the character.
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His comment was very reassuring, to me. The assertion that the trailer is not exactly representative of the story (or lack thereof) gives me hope that I will find more to like about the film than just having the Star Trek name.
Which shouldn't've have made any difference... In 09, Scotty was able to construct a transwarp transporter from existing components... He was supposed to be a miracle worker... Taking away his research notes should have no impact on his personal ability to recreate the technology: A chef does not need a written recipe to recreate a meal he created and or devised... By comparison, Tony Stark was able to build a miniaturized arc reactor in a cave, with a bunch of scraps... That the prototype was destroyed in the flyer's crash, understandable. That he couldn't modify anything else or build a new one, is a plotting error (as was Sulu's incompetence in failing to disengage the external inertial dampener...) (At least when the Doctor 'leaves the handbrake on', it's for a reason -- he likes the noise it makes...
Heh, yeah. In regards to the movie, that is
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Pretty much. There's the framework of a fun movie here but the movie itself doesn't do enough to fill it out. There's undoubtedly a neat way of reinterpreting the Khan plot in the reboot universe but, as strong as that could be, the presentation in Into Darkness really doesn't make the most of it. Maybe its more a stylistic choice to purposefully leave big important things out of a movie in favor of other stuff (that has to happen at some level, it's not often you see a totally complete series of events happen in real time) but I think the choices as to what to include and not to include are highly questionable.
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(I don't. Among other things, Khan squishing Marcus' skull like something out of a sci-fi horror movie was something I don't need to see more than once. Cumberbatch's brutal performance is easily disturbing enough to give me the willies.)
But I don't get the rush to pre-judge Beyond on the basis of ID or have an 8 page argument about it. If people want to rehash ID again, I wish they'd go start another thread to do it in.
This is about the trailer, which I think most of us probably agree was not a good trailer from a fan's point of view. Based on Simon Pegg's comment, I'm content to wait and see. We all know the original proposed screenplay was rewritten by different writers and the movie was directed by somebody who isn't JJ Abrams, so there's at least a chance that the new movie is truly something different and maybe not horrible.
I just wish the trailer had given a little bit more clue as to what the movie is about. I can't put anything I saw in that trailer into any meaningful context.
It's context which suggests that one shouldn't take the trailer at face value (obvious general rule but there's specific application here). It can be argued that the previous movie had problems when you got down to the level of scenes and dialog. You can construct a trailer from ID and present it as a compelling, coherent, self-consistent mystery but over the broad sweep of its implementation you might have something which is much more haphazard and arbitrary.
So while Beyond might have some good story points in its favor from what we've seen so far (as brought up), its worth avoiding pre-judging it on the basis of the trailer. There's a significant unknown factor in the quality of the writing (a point which some people took exception to) which has been a debatable problem through the reboots and worth keeping in mind now so we can most reasonably react to what we just saw.
Could be cool, but we need to see more.
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Um, you know what the Augments are right? Genetically enhanced superman, all of them. Also, Star Trek.com is not canon.
As opposed to his normal Mexican face? I find the whole idea of the cosmetic surgery thing a silly over complication anyway, as much as a blight 'Prophet and Lace' is it still presents a world where body swaps can be under taken in hours.
Not canon and a stupid over complication trying to justify why an Indian named Mexican from South East Asia now has the appearance of a white Englishman.
I doubt S31 would be stupid enough to even attempt this sort of plan, look at the way they went about recruiting the non-super-powered Augment, Doctor Bashir
Even though the only bits you've pointed out as not liking are simply based on you not remembering TOS?
This Khan (or rather Harrison) is already a fully fleshed out character unlike the ridiculously 2D Khan from 'Space Seed' and TWOK. He has loyalty, compassion, intelligence, motives, abilities, cunning, and acts exactly as you'd imagine a super-powered warlord to act.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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This sentence made me laugh. Not because its' meaning was humorous, but because it is written in such a flamboyant way. Your posts over the last few pages have reminded me of one timeless truth: brevity is the soul of wit.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
So...what? Not being canon does not mean something isn't correct. Your posts aren't canon either. So if you think that just because something isn't canon that it can't be correct, then nothing you say is correct. But even tossing canon aside, ST.com > your opinion. You don't have to agree with what ST.com says, but it definitely carries more weight than random joe on a video game forum.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
No, no it doesn't. As far as the film Star Trek: Into Darkness is concerned his name is Khan, that's it, no middle name, no surname. There is only canon and non-canon, canon has degrees of weighting non-canon doesn't.
Only one was, the guy from 'Space Seed'. It's painfully obvious Harrison used the name Khan, that's it. You're welcome to believe it's the same guy and come up with any number of ridiculous reasons why he looks white and not Mexican, but the fact remains he is not named or credited as Khan Noonien Singh. It doesn't matter if it reflects it or not, it's still not canon. I don't care if the ghost of Roddenberry writes it in letters of fire in the sky, if it's not onscreen it's not canon. Draw your own conclusions.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Oh, I get it. You're just being ridiculous. In that case, good job
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!