I am concerned at the people making requests that AFK should be enforced and that there are some auto-fails put in. All of this to FORCE people to play the crappy designed slog instead of creating incentives to encourage people to slog it out. Why not pay at least 1-2 marks per closed portal? Why not make the next phase pop when say, 20 portals are closed? Why not bring players UP to the challenge instead of forcing them DOWN? Incentivize this damn mission with meaningful payouts that can be noticibly increased by action and this will pretty much solve itself.
I'd close the portals if it would make the mission go faster. But no plausible amount of marks would encourage me to waste time with the current mission layout.
A fail condition makes logical sense. Unfortunately some people here hate fail conditions with a passion, everything should be guaranteed success for them, and the devs are siding with them. On the other hand a fail condition might also create even more tension between the minimalists and the portal-closing brigade, since the best way to prevent the station from being destroyed is not aggroing any of the terrans in the first place.
I thought that was a good idea as well...(closing a set number of portals to activate the final Dread scene).
But then I thought...If these people are so angry about AFK'ers now.. just imagine the crying and belly aching if under this scenario they encountered AFK'ers.
Then they ACTUALLY have a REAL reason to get mad.
Right now, it really doesn't matter if everyone on your team is afk'ing. You still get the reward. And in the same amount of time no matter what.
If they implemented this "faster" MI option, and people still afk'd.. they would blow a gasket, or their heads would explode.
It's a "1st world" problem right now, and not worth getting upset/angry about. But here we are, like 10 pages into the rage thread.
I think people who are really bothered by this, should focus their energies into something more worthwhile, rather then this pointless - self inflicted rage.
It's not worth the anger.
The way I see it, is that ultimately it comes down to the fact that you can't control what other people do ingame.
Some people are able to accept this, whilst others are not. This leads to people becoming aggressive, and insisting Cryptic intervene in some manner and punish people that do things in a way they don't like.
As many people have argued, given the design of the mission and the incentives it creates, AFKing mirror at the moment is a reasonable strategy. However, some people dislike it, and want to force others to play the game the way they want it to be played.
In my view, you can't control others actions, therefore there is no point getting worked up about it.
You can however control YOUR actions, and if people AFKing upsets you this badly, you can take steps to ensure you don't encounter them, by making a private game with likeminded people from your fleet or on one of the dps/PVE channels.
I don't know what is worst...the leechers/AFKers or the noobs whining about them
This has been a problem for the past 5 years in STO. If one does not like a "social" game we are not being forced to be here. Come on..people will be people no matter what you do. Some social interactions are good others not so good. If you abhor those "bad" social interactions then just do something else. Meaning either bail of the team or just do other "solo" game. Cryptic is already doing much about AFK and some do get penalties if they dont move. Please stop whining about this subject and let's move on.
I have to say that sometimes, only sometimes i AFK, well not AFK per se, i stay close to one collector and activate it when needed, i only do this if one of this two conditions are met:
1.- Nobody closing the portals
2.- Nobody increasing the level of the station.
I will not do extra work if nobody is working either..
The way I see it, is that ultimately it comes down to the fact that you can't control what other people do ingame.
Not just that...unlike other missions, we can't even control the game!!! Nothing we do can make the mission go faster, nothing rewards teamwork or a large investment in a DPS build in any meaningful amount.
However, some people dislike it, and want to force others to play the game the way they want it to be played.
The way that it's intended to be played. There's nothing in the mission objectives saying "close the portals, keep the station alive OR do nothing". And you'll have a hard time convincing me that any of the devs intended some players to do nothing in phase 1 or even in phase 1 + 2.
However, some people dislike it, and want to force others to play the game the way they want it to be played.
The way that it's intended to be played. There's nothing in the mission objectives saying "close the portals, keep the station alive OR do nothing". And you'll have a hard time convincing me that any of the devs intended the players to do nothing in phase 1 or even in phase 1 + 2.
If it was 'intended' for you to close all of the portals and keep the station alive, why does it take 10minutes regardless of whether you do anything at all?
You have also ignored the main point of my post - which is if you don't like the fact that people do the mission in a different way to you - take steps to avoid encountering those people. Simple.
I'll tell you an aggravating thing in the mission if you run around and close all the portals... 4-5 minutes of just waiting... maybe an occasional new portal... but mostly... nothing. You just wait for the next phase to start. I find the cut scene funny... mostly there are no ships to send back... debris... but no active ships.
Wait wait wait. So people want an afk penalty? So ignoring this is the only map that has a use for sci and eng, and if they do their job as intended then they would get an afk penalty for doing their job. What about all 5 players, including you, including everyone that helps, that are waiting shooting nothing for 5 to 6 minutes. Does everyone get the afk penalty? Does anyone get the rewards!
You have also ignored the main point of my post - which is if you don't like the fact that people do the mission in a different way to you - take steps to avoid encountering those people. Simple.
There's only one right way to play MU or any group content of the game : every player... plays. All other "way" is leeching or an exploit. There are NOT 2 or more right ways to play MU, there is only one : doing something in BOTH phases of the event. If you don't like doing something, i strongly suggest you form a specific channel to group with people sharing your style of "play" (or in this case not playing 2/3 of the mission). The normal players, doing something as it is intended, don't have to take steps to avoid encountering the leechers, it's the opposite.
However, some people dislike it, and want to force others to play the game the way they want it to be played.
The way that it's intended to be played. There's nothing in the mission objectives saying "close the portals, keep the station alive OR do nothing". And you'll have a hard time convincing me that any of the devs intended some players to do nothing in phase 1 or even in phase 1 + 2.
Maybe, maybe not. But that's how they programmed the mission. Players can wait the 11 minutes doing nothing. It doesn't matter what the mission says, only what it does.
If indeed the devs want to force us to do something during the wait, they will change the mission so that all the objectives are no longer optional. Until then, what is, is.
Maybe, maybe not. But that's how they programmed the mission. Players can wait the 11 minutes doing nothing. It doesn't matter what the mission says, only what it does.
If indeed the devs want to force us to do something during the wait, they will change the mission so that all the objectives are no longer optional. Until then, what is, is.
When beating optionals in a timegated mission rewards so much less than pretty much everything else you could do in that time people get frustrated. Why did I upgrade my Iconian 4 piece? Certainly not to be timegated in zerg rush. And Yes, if I would AFK the first Phase (I don't) I'd solo the Dread before or any of you "leecher callers" would even get to it.
My suggestion to the devs is to the make the tachyon burst in the cutscene reachable at a 6th station power level.
Leave the time gate in, but short circuit it if you reach power level 6.
Just make the optionals worth it and force the Dreadnought to spawn after 25 closed Rifts. It's that easy. But no one cares. 20 minutes on the metrics are 20 minutes on the metrics.
I think you maybe reading something that ain't there. Some people are selfish pricks...plain and simple. I admit that I am a prick...but even I don't pull the TRIBBLE he does. So yeah...when the person who is enough of a prick that they call themselves one freely calls ya one...not a good sign.
Hey, now, that's not true. I'm not a selfish prick. I dispense lots of free invites and things on NoP PS. I'm a collectively-minded prick. It's for the good of all of us, except the ones who are dead.
LOL I love this person.
Seriously though, this event isn't all that fun. So it's not like there was anything to ruin in the first place. I'm just in it for the dil and I already have more than enough marks to finish my Terran rep and will have enough in the end to sponsor my 14 other characters, though they would need marks. I'll just wait for the next Crystalline event for that.
You do what you do and I do what I do and that's just fine with me.
Exploiters. I cant believe that people who AFK can possibly believe that they are doing this correctly. If I see you, you will be reported for a TOS violation. Specificly using the provided content in a manner not intended as such.
"Khan Noonien Singh is the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced. He is brilliant, ruthless, and he will not hesitate to kill every single one of you."
– Spock, 2259 (Star Trek Into Darkness)
"Khan Noonien Singh is the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced. He is brilliant, ruthless, and he will not hesitate to kill every single one of you."
– Spock, 2259 (Star Trek Into Darkness)
I am concerned at the people making requests that AFK should be enforced and that there are some auto-fails put in. All of this to FORCE people to play the crappy designed slog
There is one piece of crappy design in it, agreed (which is: you have to sit out the 11 minutes). But again: nobody is "forced" to do anything here. If you feel the need to get item X (or the dil, but I guess the latter really is a minor issue here) then that is your problem. It is not needed for any part of the content at all. so you don't have to get it in any way. But you want it the way a five year old wants a chocolate. And then your parents offer you a deal "clean up your room and we'll get you that chocolate". But you still can just decide you don't want the chocolate that badly.
Wait wait wait. So people want an afk penalty? So ignoring this is the only map that has a use for sci and eng, and if they do their job as intended then they would get an afk penalty for doing their job.
I have no clue how afk penalty calculation is done in this game. If it is done by damage dealt only and that cannot be changed, you would be right. But closing gates or activating these thingies can be counted and can count against being afk. There may be a technical difficulty we don't know about (but there may also not be, which we wouldn't know either) but the concept would be plain and simple. (Apart from that: while the bonus abilities of sci and eng are nice and can be used, the idea "I am an eng and will only activate energy to the station" will fail you on advanced. Yes, an escort has to fly unnoticed past a sci vessel struggling against a mob unnoticed to close portals if necessary. Only if two ships of different abilities come close to the same situation it really comes into play what you fly).
And I still don't get the insinuation that closing portals is no good. It does award more marks, if I am not totally mistaken, more so than you can lose in getting the station destroyed.
And I still wonder why First-Phase afk players don't pug advanced. It gives more rewards when just sitting around. Unless they can't handle the dreadnought there in the end - then it would start to make sense.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Exploiters. I cant believe that people who AFK can possibly believe that they are doing this correctly. If I see you, you will be reported for a TOS violation. Specificly using the provided content in a manner not intended as such.
I prefer to shoot stuff since I'm also working on starship masteries.
But........where in the ToS does it forbid being AFK in a public queued event? I've actually checked it not too long ago and didn't see anything. Could you quote where it says players can't do that?
@skollulfr It's form FOLLOWS function, kinda the opposite.
As far as the ToS goes, what Fitchgilbert seems to be referring to would be Section 14.2:h, which forbids "any use of the Services or the Proprietary Materials other than for its intended purpose".
While I do believe this is a bit of a stretch, it does bring up the question of what the Devs intended, and I think most would agree that what they meant for to happen is outlined in the text and VO work they had done for the beginning of the mission. In fact, I would define what the Devs intended as "normal flow of game play," which is covered in the ToS, section 15.2:h, which forbids players to "impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas..."
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
@skollulfr
It's form FOLLOWS function, kinda the opposite.
As far as the ToS goes, what Fitchgilbert seems to be referring to would be Section 14.2:h, which forbids "any use of the Services or the Proprietary Materials other than for its intended purpose".
This can extend so far that you'll definitely want to ignore it as long as it is not applied to an exploit. Under this assumption, common actions like one manning a 5-man queue would be a bannable offense.
While I do believe this is a bit of a stretch, it does bring up the question of what the Devs intended, and I think most would agree that what they meant for to happen is outlined in the text and VO work they had done for the beginning of the mission. In fact, I would define what the Devs intended as "normal flow of game play," which is covered in the ToS, section 15.2:h, which forbids players to "impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas..."
Technically, you cannot impede or disrupt the normal flow of gameplay in phase 1. Phase 1 will complete with success in any case.
For reasons that are my own, I don't play the mirror event. After reading this thread I decided I would see how easy it is to AFK a mirror event. So I joined a match.
What happened was funny. Everyone who joined was afk. One player got mad that no one was going to fight, as to go so far as to say he fought the last one, he earned to sit this round. When it got to the point that no one would fight, we all just left the match.
I only afk if the station loses health. I don't see any point in putting in anything beyond the barest minimum effort for this queue and once the station loses health the bonus marks go away so whatever.
If performance actually mattered and there wasn't a time gate I wouldn't afk, but words cannot begin to express how much I don't give a TRIBBLE about this goddamn mission.
I am concerned at the people making requests that AFK should be enforced and that there are some auto-fails put in. All of this to FORCE people to play the crappy designed slog
There is one piece of crappy design in it, agreed (which is: you have to sit out the 11 minutes). But again: nobody is "forced" to do anything here
That can be said about ANY of the FA/STF missions. But I'm not quite sure what your point is...
I am concerned at the people making requests that AFK should be enforced and that there are some auto-fails put in. All of this to FORCE people to play the crappy designed slog
And I still don't get the insinuation that closing portals is no good. It does award more marks, if I am not totally mistaken, more so than you can lose in getting the station destroyed.
I don't think anyone has ever said that they don't pay anything..its just the effort to what you get back in many opinions is so negligible it's better off doing a private afk and do Doff/Admiralty missions.
Comments
I thought that was a good idea as well...(closing a set number of portals to activate the final Dread scene).
But then I thought...If these people are so angry about AFK'ers now.. just imagine the crying and belly aching if under this scenario they encountered AFK'ers.
Then they ACTUALLY have a REAL reason to get mad.
Right now, it really doesn't matter if everyone on your team is afk'ing. You still get the reward. And in the same amount of time no matter what.
If they implemented this "faster" MI option, and people still afk'd.. they would blow a gasket, or their heads would explode.
It's a "1st world" problem right now, and not worth getting upset/angry about. But here we are, like 10 pages into the rage thread.
I think people who are really bothered by this, should focus their energies into something more worthwhile, rather then this pointless - self inflicted rage.
It's not worth the anger.
Some people are able to accept this, whilst others are not. This leads to people becoming aggressive, and insisting Cryptic intervene in some manner and punish people that do things in a way they don't like.
As many people have argued, given the design of the mission and the incentives it creates, AFKing mirror at the moment is a reasonable strategy. However, some people dislike it, and want to force others to play the game the way they want it to be played.
In my view, you can't control others actions, therefore there is no point getting worked up about it.
You can however control YOUR actions, and if people AFKing upsets you this badly, you can take steps to ensure you don't encounter them, by making a private game with likeminded people from your fleet or on one of the dps/PVE channels.
This has been a problem for the past 5 years in STO. If one does not like a "social" game we are not being forced to be here. Come on..people will be people no matter what you do. Some social interactions are good others not so good. If you abhor those "bad" social interactions then just do something else. Meaning either bail of the team or just do other "solo" game. Cryptic is already doing much about AFK and some do get penalties if they dont move. Please stop whining about this subject and let's move on.
1.- Nobody closing the portals
2.- Nobody increasing the level of the station.
I will not do extra work if nobody is working either..
Not just that...unlike other missions, we can't even control the game!!! Nothing we do can make the mission go faster, nothing rewards teamwork or a large investment in a DPS build in any meaningful amount.
The way that it's intended to be played. There's nothing in the mission objectives saying "close the portals, keep the station alive OR do nothing". And you'll have a hard time convincing me that any of the devs intended some players to do nothing in phase 1 or even in phase 1 + 2.
You have also ignored the main point of my post - which is if you don't like the fact that people do the mission in a different way to you - take steps to avoid encountering those people. Simple.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
What about all 5 players, including you, including everyone that helps, that are waiting shooting nothing for 5 to 6 minutes. Does everyone get the afk penalty? Does anyone get the rewards!
There's only one right way to play MU or any group content of the game : every player... plays. All other "way" is leeching or an exploit. There are NOT 2 or more right ways to play MU, there is only one : doing something in BOTH phases of the event. If you don't like doing something, i strongly suggest you form a specific channel to group with people sharing your style of "play" (or in this case not playing 2/3 of the mission). The normal players, doing something as it is intended, don't have to take steps to avoid encountering the leechers, it's the opposite.
If indeed the devs want to force us to do something during the wait, they will change the mission so that all the objectives are no longer optional. Until then, what is, is.
Agreed.
When beating optionals in a timegated mission rewards so much less than pretty much everything else you could do in that time people get frustrated. Why did I upgrade my Iconian 4 piece? Certainly not to be timegated in zerg rush. And Yes, if I would AFK the first Phase (I don't) I'd solo the Dread before or any of you "leecher callers" would even get to it.
Leave the time gate in, but short circuit it if you reach power level 6.
LOL I love this person.
Seriously though, this event isn't all that fun. So it's not like there was anything to ruin in the first place. I'm just in it for the dil and I already have more than enough marks to finish my Terran rep and will have enough in the end to sponsor my 14 other characters, though they would need marks. I'll just wait for the next Crystalline event for that.
You do what you do and I do what I do and that's just fine with me.
"Khan Noonien Singh is the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced. He is brilliant, ruthless, and he will not hesitate to kill every single one of you."
– Spock, 2259 (Star Trek Into Darkness)
"Khan Noonien Singh is the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever faced. He is brilliant, ruthless, and he will not hesitate to kill every single one of you."
– Spock, 2259 (Star Trek Into Darkness)
There is one piece of crappy design in it, agreed (which is: you have to sit out the 11 minutes). But again: nobody is "forced" to do anything here. If you feel the need to get item X (or the dil, but I guess the latter really is a minor issue here) then that is your problem. It is not needed for any part of the content at all. so you don't have to get it in any way. But you want it the way a five year old wants a chocolate. And then your parents offer you a deal "clean up your room and we'll get you that chocolate". But you still can just decide you don't want the chocolate that badly.
I have no clue how afk penalty calculation is done in this game. If it is done by damage dealt only and that cannot be changed, you would be right. But closing gates or activating these thingies can be counted and can count against being afk. There may be a technical difficulty we don't know about (but there may also not be, which we wouldn't know either) but the concept would be plain and simple. (Apart from that: while the bonus abilities of sci and eng are nice and can be used, the idea "I am an eng and will only activate energy to the station" will fail you on advanced. Yes, an escort has to fly unnoticed past a sci vessel struggling against a mob unnoticed to close portals if necessary. Only if two ships of different abilities come close to the same situation it really comes into play what you fly).
And I still don't get the insinuation that closing portals is no good. It does award more marks, if I am not totally mistaken, more so than you can lose in getting the station destroyed.
And I still wonder why First-Phase afk players don't pug advanced. It gives more rewards when just sitting around. Unless they can't handle the dreadnought there in the end - then it would start to make sense.
I prefer to shoot stuff since I'm also working on starship masteries.
But........where in the ToS does it forbid being AFK in a public queued event? I've actually checked it not too long ago and didn't see anything. Could you quote where it says players can't do that?
It's form FOLLOWS function, kinda the opposite.
As far as the ToS goes, what Fitchgilbert seems to be referring to would be Section 14.2:h, which forbids "any use of the Services or the Proprietary Materials other than for its intended purpose".
While I do believe this is a bit of a stretch, it does bring up the question of what the Devs intended, and I think most would agree that what they meant for to happen is outlined in the text and VO work they had done for the beginning of the mission. In fact, I would define what the Devs intended as "normal flow of game play," which is covered in the ToS, section 15.2:h, which forbids players to "impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas..."
This can extend so far that you'll definitely want to ignore it as long as it is not applied to an exploit. Under this assumption, common actions like one manning a 5-man queue would be a bannable offense.
Technically, you cannot impede or disrupt the normal flow of gameplay in phase 1. Phase 1 will complete with success in any case.
What happened was funny. Everyone who joined was afk. One player got mad that no one was going to fight, as to go so far as to say he fought the last one, he earned to sit this round. When it got to the point that no one would fight, we all just left the match.
If performance actually mattered and there wasn't a time gate I wouldn't afk, but words cannot begin to express how much I don't give a TRIBBLE about this goddamn mission.
That can be said about ANY of the FA/STF missions. But I'm not quite sure what your point is...
I don't think anyone has ever said that they don't pay anything..its just the effort to what you get back in many opinions is so negligible it's better off doing a private afk and do Doff/Admiralty missions.