I think they really should re edit the difficulty Levels between Normal, Advanced, and Elite levels (have a larger gap)
But they also seem to have an issue with "lazy DPS players" (players that go into an STF knowing they are way too OP'd for it for that easy reward).
The funny thing is, they have a fix they already in use on Neverwinter. Incorporate that gear score system into STO to ensure the teams are fun for all and challenging.
So I've come to realize that as more and more people are going towards advanced and elite runs now that the more people are getting mad when they ASSUME that someone is not pulling their weight. Now don't get me wrong this is not a new issue but that doesn't mean you spend an hour PMing someone basically trying to flame and troll someone. I get that the current meta is pew pew the everything and sadly a lot of players fall into the category of if everything doesn't explode in 5 seconds or less somebody just sucks.
To give a little back story this rant/venting of mine started with a Counterpoint Advanced. Anyone who knows me knows that I run a PartG R'Mor well in the last 2 phases of the fight I parked on terok nor and proceeded to CC / Draw aggro / destroy terok and the spawns. To which 3 of the 5 man team starting yelling at me to stop leeching. Now this is where the ignorance comes in. Anyone who would've looked at my ship and not it's distance would've seen gravity wells TBR Resonance Beam and a load of weapons fire coming from my ship as well as my Photonic ships + delta beacon.
Just because someone has a ship that is tough enough to park and tank while dishing out damage doesn't not mean leech nor do you have to spend half an hour trying to flame and troll them and then go to ESD to start badmouthing someone either.
Basically learn a PVE and possible strategies as well as see what your teammates bring to the table before you make accusations. END RANT.
The first thing first players should remember to do in a Counterpoint Advanced is to bring Terok Nor down to 40% in the third phase, then stop and carry over the transports from DS9 to Terok Nor.
If they don't do that, I give you permission to badmouth them lol
Ground is even worse. I lost count of the number of times I played BHA, only to be paired with 4 TACs, who were all DEAD before for first zone was cleared.
Let me guess : they were hurt, they had white shield and armor and they had no Rally Cry?
Right now, a pug BHE is like flipping a coin, because of the last phase where Lt. Vanderveer dies easily if the team doesn't one-shot the Spawnmother and/or someone doesn't heal him and/or CC the bugs around him efficiently.
I suggest you to find competent players in your fleet and in dedicated channels.
One of the best ways to learn how to do something is to do it head on. Sorry that ruins your day, but frankly, people shouldn't care if your day is ruined in a virtual game with no importance to real life. Everyone in this rididculus game has every right to go into whatever stf they want.
Gotta call shenanigans on this particular part of your post. I agree that it's best to learn by doing BUT you have normal versions of queues to learn the place in.
When you step into an advanced/elite queue, you must be able to bring a certain amount of dps to the table, that's just a fact and there's no way around it. You may have the right to join that queue, but if the mission requires you to be able to deal 10k dps bare minimum but you're only dealing 5k, I also have the right to call you out on it for dragging the team down. that does not mean I want you to uninstall the game or I'm saying something to be an elitist, it means that you're not carrying your weight and you need to improve before you come back into that mission. You may have a right to queue for said STF or mission, but I also have the right to not have to carry you if you can't pull your weight. You may have the right to press that queue button, but when your performance effects the other 4 people, you have no business being in that queue. Having minimum reasonable standards is not a bad thing as long as it doesn't become elitism.
I myself don't mind helping people learn queues, even the elite queues. I do however mind when people can't pull the minimum required or make no effort to learn when it's an elite queue.
See what happened right there? Even though I gave kudos to the OP, I still get hammered by fools that just want to bash dps.This game is very simple: Fly in, kill stuff, get rewards, exit to sector. This game is about DAMAGE(dps). What don't you people understand about that? This is the game we have, it's what Cryptic/PWE wants it to be, and no amount of denial by any of you is going to change that.
Gotta call shenanigans on this portion as well because this is the kind of attitude that gives the dps crowd a bad rap. This section to me just comes off as jerkish. You may not have intended it to be that way but that's how it reads to me.
There's more to this game than just dps. dps is meaningless if you don't know what you're doing, or if you can't take more than 1-2 hits aka glass cannon. You can have a 200k dps ship, but if you're getting one shot the moment you even look in the direction of an enemy, that 200k ship isn't doing you any good. There are tactics that must be adhered to if you want to clear certain queues. Korfez is just one example of this. There are certain phases in that STF that require tactics to be used and you can't simply just blast your way through.
Yes dps has value, but when people equate dps to being the end all, be all, then you have a problem. I agree there's people who have no business in advanced/elite queues but we do them no favors by harping on them either.
Overall both of you have some great points, but the 2 sections I pulled out in particular are something that needed to be addressed.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
There are a lot of decent folks who enjoy maxing DPS so don't generalize. I enjoy maxing DPS on my torpedo boat partgens science ships on my tactical captain. Although any time I've tried to get a parse the lag has been so bad I only post 10-15k. I know I'm melting thinags as fast as 50kers atleast but science performance does not parse well.
Fact is, this content is here for ALL of us to play, not just the elitist DPS'ers.
I think this is a really important point here.
I was once in NORMAL queue, surrounded by Scimitards, where one comments: "Oh well, guess we'll only to carry the Science guy.", only to have me in my little Science ship do better than half of em, because my damage AOE.
This is the way the game has been steered for profit.
. How many times have we heard in interviews that escorts sold better and that's why they offer more of them?
. Delta Rising in increasing the ranks, increased difficulty by increasing baddie hit points to encourage players to upgrade their gear. Upgrading gear is insanely expensive and extremely profitable.
. Look at all of the really best "go to" traits and abilities being released in lockboxes lately, I'll point the finger straight at Kemocite, but I'm absolutely sure there are PLENTY of others.
They all get released INSANELY broken, which I feel only helps to drive up lockbox sales and profits, only to have players complain once they discover these things are so unbalanced, (see players, we listen to you and because YOU asked for it.....) leading to the eventual nerf AFTER they have your money. But hey, they players requested it, so no culpability.
Then there are those players that judge because you aren't, or can't buy into the whole ultimate build phenom.
They are the uncompensated salesmen for Cryptic, Judging other players they feel are unworthy of being on their team because they can't kill things in under 5 seconds.
They have driven up performance expectations, raised the bar so that in order to be worthy, you feel the need to get all that expensive TRIBBLE.
Funny thing is tho, we've been shown by knowledgeable players who have the time to research things, that this expensive stuff for MOST content, isn't necessary, but can you compete with someone using all this broken stuff killing everything that flies in under 5 seconds?
Especially with rewards and the AFK preventative measures comparing performance as well?
I feel it is important to point out that I'm not talking about elite queues or content, they are an animal of a whole different color.
Fact is, this content is here for ALL of us to play, not just the elitist DPS'ers.
I think this is a really important point here.
I was once in NORMAL queue, surrounded by Scimitards, where one comments: "Oh well, guess we'll only to carry the Science guy.", only to have me in my little Science ship do better than half of em, because my damage AOE.
This is the way the game has been steered for profit.
. How many times have we heard in interviews that escorts sold better and that's why they offer more of them?
. Delta Rising in increasing the ranks, increased difficulty by increasing baddie hit points to encourage players to upgrade their gear. Upgrading gear is insanely expensive and extremely profitable.
. Look at all of the really best "go to" traits and abilities being released in lockboxes lately, I'll point the finger straight at Kemocite, but I'm absolutely sure there are PLENTY of others.
They all get released INSANELY broken, which I feel only helps to drive up lockbox sales and profits, only to have players complain once they discover these things are so unbalanced, (see players, we listen to you and because YOU asked for it.....) leading to the eventual nerf AFTER they have your money. But hey, they players requested it, so no culpability.
Then there are those players that judge because you aren't, or can't buy into the whole ultimate build phenom.
They are the uncompensated salesmen for Cryptic, Judging other players they feel are unworthy of being on their team because they can't kill things in under 5 seconds.
They have driven up performance expectations, raised the bar so that in order to be worthy, you feel the need to get all that expensive TRIBBLE.
Funny thing is tho, we've been shown by knowledgeable players who have the time to research things, that this expensive stuff for MOST content, isn't necessary, but can you compete with someone using all this broken stuff killing everything that flies in under 5 seconds?
Especially with rewards and the AFK preventative measures comparing performance as well?
It's an important point to make but at the end of the day there are just certain people who have no business being in certain queues. Simply because you have the ability to queue for something doesn't mean you should or that you're ready for it. When you under perform and it effects the other 4 members of your team, they have every right to call you out for it. It's not fair that they should have to make up for your shortcomings.
Also have you ever considered that perhaps sometimes things get released that are just straight broken and the "nerfs" are actually justified. one example being the embassy consoles before plasma doping was removed. when it was discovered that they benefited from +beam consoles, you can't honestly have expected them not to do anything about it. You also couldn't seriously have expected them to let kemocite stick around in its broken state.
With the level cap being raised you should have known also the performance bar would be raised as well. comes with the territory of mmos.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
It's an important point to make but at the end of the day there are just certain people who have no business being in certain queues. Simply because you have the ability to queue for something doesn't mean you should or that you're ready for it. When you under perform and it effects the other 4 members of your team, they have every right to call you out for it. It's not fair that they should have to make up for your shortcomings.
And I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly in elite queues, which is why I added it. But you still get this attitude even in normal queues, which I pointed out. So where else can a player go to "learn"?
And after a player has mastered normal, what happens then? Does that mean that's the end of the learning curve? No, they go onto advanced. Where they will have to stumble bleary eyed into the next level. The learning curve continues, hopefully there.
Also have you ever considered that perhaps sometimes things get released that are just straight broken and the "nerfs" are actually justified. one example being the embassy consoles before plasma doping was removed. when it was discovered that they benefited from +beam consoles, you can't honestly have expected them not to do anything about it. You also couldn't seriously have expected them to let kemocite stick around in its broken state.
No, I don't expect broken stuff to stay in the game, you are correct and I concede to this point, but you have to admit they can be very profitable mistakes. That should raise concerns, particularly if the same situation seems to repeats itself lockbox after lockbox offering.
Doesn't this stuff get tested? AT ALL ?
Is it unreasonable to ask this with rare stuff that people might spend more REAL MONEY trying to obtain then they might the average C store offerings?
With the level cap being raised you should have known also the performance bar would be raised as well. comes with the territory of mmos.
Blanket statement, stating the obvious maybe, but Yes I expected that, BUT again, LEARNING CURVE, lots of new players step into this game for the first time. THERE IS A TON to learn for the new player and STO isn't really particularly good at teaching players how to succeed in my opinion.
The casual player, without help may have a harder time of it that's all. That's where more knowledgeable players role should come in.
Look, I concede to your point about the harder queues, that's the reason I personally stay out of most of them myself. But this attitude is also in normal queues too.
Again, not everyone has hours to play the game, some are gonna learn at a different pace.
You're always gonna find trolls and people who just don't wanna learn, I'm not talking about them.
Edit
I wanna add one more point, then I'm done.
A little courtesy won't kill ya.
I feel this is important to add. There are a lot of people who behave in a way, I am quite certain would be frowned upon out in the real world. Especially towards players they consider to be noobs.
I realize I'm not on the popular opinion here, that's okay. This is a video game, not the real world, I know. I can still see ALL your points. But we do deal with REAL PEOPLE some who are not attracted to MMOs particularly as they are to the franchise. We need to keep this in mind too.
If this game is to continue and thrive, we need new players, lots of them to play and stay. Being DECENT to them might help.
Maybe then queues might get more attendance then what we've been seeing.
TBH, I don't understand why you'd want to close your chat window in a MULTIPLAYER game inside a TEAM mission. Closed windows breaks communication. There are a lot of maps especially in advanced and onwards that need good communication between team members. I've seen so many winnable situations fail because people were not reading chat.
So why close your chat? Is it because of the whiners in the team? Why are you affected by them? Is it because of people calling out mistakes you might be doing? Is your pride that high to not accept that maybe they do have a point? Or do you think you are higher than everyone else in the game?
Most of the time I see someone call other people idiots (or something similar) in a team are actually among the lowest contributors (damage, heals and attacks-in) of the team. Some of the biggest whiners I've seen in teams are people who actually don't know the basic strategy of that run. I've rarely run into someone who actually did respectable DPS call out other people (I can remember only 3 instances since I started playing this game last year).
Every player in this game started out as a noob, not knowing what to do in a map or build their ships. I think the best players are those who were humble enough to admit that there are better players out there, there is a right and wrong way of doing things and there is room to improve one's gameplay within the resources available to them. The best players understand the team aspect of the game and the importance of working together with the people around them in a queue. I'm sure they've been on the receiving end of the rants the OP is talking about. The difference is they either let it go or use that feedback to find ways to improve themselves on the next run.
Reading this thread shows how elitism goes both ways. There are the alleged "elitist DPSer's" who call people out for their mistakes or unpreparedness in chat, there are elitist non-DPSer's who jump on every forum thread to talk about how dumb DPSer's are for chasing the damage carrot and there are elitist casuals who belittle players for trying to play the game competitively. Really, these elitist comments should stop.
I usually play advanced to get the stuff you need for the rep equipment and then concentrate on the normal levels just to get the marks. I have notice a few people calling us casual gamers (assume that these are pro gamers or hard core gamers that are doing and if not then I apologise) noobs. I do consider myself a casual player and I do contribute or attmept to.
Some of the other comments would be like "get better equipment" or "learn the fking mission"; Most if not all of these people will just type about 100 words to say this and why everyone else is flying and/or fighting enemies they don't give helpful comments. I wish those people go and o the PvP missions instead but I think they can't because they don't have any friends to do them.
It happens a lot these days. Funniest is when the one guy calling everyone noobs has the lowest DPS.
What irks me the most are the guys doing high DPS who feel the need to post the DPS scores of everyone. It basically saying "look how big my epeen is!"
Ahh well thank God for the ignore function.
that's not why we post numbers you got it all wrong atleast not me .i post numbers because i have to carry people like you in stfs and yea it irks me sometimes, i would think since your in elite or advanced you've bin playing long enough to know what it takes more so for elite. even if your casual read up on what your building
It happens a lot these days. Funniest is when the one guy calling everyone noobs has the lowest DPS.
What irks me the most are the guys doing high DPS who feel the need to post the DPS scores of everyone. It basically saying "look how big my epeen is!"
Ahh well thank God for the ignore function.
that's not why we post numbers you got it all wrong atleast not me .i post numbers because i have to carry people like you in stfs and yea it irks me sometimes, i would think since your in elite or advanced you've bin playing long enough to know what it takes more so for elite. even if your casual read up on what your building
I myself wish players would post MORE numbers, especially in normals, but that's just my opinion.
Come into Advanced STFs, know the objective, or make a visible effort to learn them by paying attention to team chat or follow along if you don't know, all is well, even if it fails.
If someone deliberately goes out of their way to cause objective fails, trying to solo the other end of the map, to talk down at my DPS which has never happened (my Alts are still capable of most if not all advanced STFs and I do use them - 3 of which still need some work) then no they can forget ever teaming up with me again.
Don't get bullied out of STFs just because some are hostile. Follow the simple advice above and everyone can have a good and rewarding time.
That said, yes I do get angry at the team (Romulans celebrate their freedom of emotional expression), take leaver penalties, and could care less, and in such cases which are more often than not, the team deserves nothing more.
TBH, I don't understand why you'd want to close your chat window in a MULTIPLAYER game inside a TEAM mission. Closed windows breaks communication. There are a lot of maps especially in advanced and onwards that need good communication between team members. I've seen so many winnable situations fail because people were not reading chat.
So why close your chat? Is it because of the whiners in the team? Why are you affected by them? Is it because of people calling out mistakes you might be doing? Is your pride that high to not accept that maybe they do have a point? Or do you think you are higher than everyone else in the game?
Most of the time I see someone call other people idiots (or something similar) in a team are actually among the lowest contributors (damage, heals and attacks-in) of the team. Some of the biggest whiners I've seen in teams are people who actually don't know the basic strategy of that run. I've rarely run into someone who actually did respectable DPS call out other people (I can remember only 3 instances since I started playing this game last year).
Every player in this game started out as a noob, not knowing what to do in a map or build their ships. I think the best players are those who were humble enough to admit that there are better players out there, there is a right and wrong way of doing things and there is room to improve one's gameplay within the resources available to them. The best players understand the team aspect of the game and the importance of working together with the people around them in a queue. I'm sure they've been on the receiving end of the rants the OP is talking about. The difference is they either let it go or use that feedback to find ways to improve themselves on the next run.
Reading this thread shows how elitism goes both ways. There are the alleged "elitist DPSer's" who call people out for their mistakes or unpreparedness in chat, there are elitist non-DPSer's who jump on every forum thread to talk about how dumb DPSer's are for chasing the damage carrot and there are elitist casuals who belittle players for trying to play the game competitively. Really, these elitist comments should stop.
In my researching of builds, I came across a video where you were being rated on your build lol.
Your Curiosity build was the inspiration for a build of mine, along with the feedback you got.
But if I remember one point/critique they made was, there was a certain amount of "piloting skills" required, BEYOND the perfect build if I'm not mistaken. That's gonna take practice.
TBH, I don't understand why you'd want to close your chat window in a MULTIPLAYER game inside a TEAM mission. Closed windows breaks communication. There are a lot of maps especially in advanced and onwards that need good communication between team members. I've seen so many winnable situations fail because people were not reading chat.
So why close your chat?
Exactly 100% with you on this and the rest of the points.
Ignore team chat, show other signs of complete ignorance if not outright trolling, and I will abandon the team because it isn't one and never was.
Come into Advanced STFs, know the objective, or make a visible effort to learn them by paying attention to team chat or follow along if you don't know, all is well, even if it fails.
If someone deliberately goes out of their way to cause objective fails, trying to solo the other end of the map, to talk down at my DPS which has never happened (my Alts are still capable of most if not all advanced STFs and I do use them - 3 of which still need some work) then no they can forget ever teaming up with me again.
Don't get bullied out of STFs just because some are hostile. Follow the simple advice above and everyone can have a good and rewarding time.
That said, yes I do get angry at the team (Romulans celebrate their freedom of emotional expression), take leaver penalties, and could care less, and in such cases which are more often than not, the team deserves nothing more.
I also hate people joining the PvEs and as soon as the mission starts they leave. This can make it even harder to do, for an example on Infected.
That's still happening? It's been a while since I've seen that, though in all honesty, It's been rare enough altogether I tried any STFs.
I don't see a war between the DPS trolls (not all DPSers, just the trolls) vs non-DPSers. That implies both are actively engaged in hostilities. The way I see it, the DPS-trolls are just plain savagely ripping the non-mega-DPSers apart. And when some of the non-mega-DPSers even put a rather civil post or thread protesting such putridity, it's all of a sudden they who are trolling/flaming/etc? When will this hate end?
In my researching of builds, I came across a video where you were being rated on your build lol.
Your Curiosity build was the inspiration for a build of mine, along with the feedback you got.
But if I remember one point/critique they made was, there was a certain amount of "piloting skills" required, BEYOND the perfect build if I'm not mistaken. That's gonna take practice.
Thanks! I am still learning a lot whenever I run with other people. New ways to do things, new builds to try. I still go back to that video and other people's videos and learn new things. Learning is part of the fun for me in this game.
There does seem to be a lot of hate both ways. Ive seen people in PUGs that think theyre god and hate on people with lower dps and ive seen it the other way around firsthand in a pug where i flew in my annorax partgen threat build as soon as i started firing the reaction was "oh great one of THESE runs" in team chat. You simply cant win. I dont hate on people with lower dps or are newer players because quite honestly at one time or another we all sucked to a point. But both sides need to be mindful of where each player is in the game. I do say dont jump right to advanced or elite if you are not geared for it OR the other players in the queue be mindful of the fact it may be one of that player's first cracks at the run. Part of the problem especially with pugs is some more experienced players freak out seemingly just because somebody is new-ish. Instead a little communication in team chat goes a long way.
There does seem to be a lot of hate both ways. Ive seen people in PUGs that think theyre god and hate on people with lower dps and ive seen it the other way around firsthand in a pug where i flew in my annorax partgen threat build as soon as i started firing the reaction was "oh great one of THESE runs" in team chat. You simply cant win. I dont hate on people with lower dps or are newer players because quite honestly at one time or another we all sucked to a point. But both sides need to be mindful of where each player is in the game. I do say dont jump right to advanced or elite if you are not geared for it OR the other players in the queue be mindful of the fact it may be one of that player's first cracks at the run. Part of the problem especially with pugs is some more experienced players freak out seemingly just because somebody is new-ish. Instead a little communication in team chat goes a long way.
A little communication in team chat indeed goes a looooong way! But when people have been shamed and flamed, slammed and dammned, they just turn the chatbox off, or just uncheck team/local/zone/etc and then that communication that would go a long way goes nowhere fast.
Annorax partgen with threat you say? Remind me to team up with you in a Borg DCed run so I can sneak across and free some spheres and cubes.
Let me guess : they were hurt, they had white shield and armor and they had no Rally Cry?
Right now, a pug BHE is like flipping a coin, because of the last phase where Lt. Vanderveer dies easily if the team doesn't one-shot the Spawnmother and/or someone doesn't heal him and/or CC the bugs around him efficiently.
I suggest you to find competent players in your fleet and in dedicated channels.
BHE pug the other day... We had 2 sci's and the engi in our team says " you all kill the mother, ill keep him alive" 5 seconds later the Lt is getting pounded with slime balls while medical and shield generators are sitting around him. I guess he wanted to make him a target. Instant fail. One of the team members goes "it happens". I'm thinking no it won't happen if you don't put bug targets all around the guy. Just could only face palm at that point. I'm pretty sure it wasnt a troll, but it felt that way. I only pug that on my Sci now with heals, sweep, monitor and induction field for when he gets swarmed. And I dont even need ALL that. Kept him alive with just triage before.
Come into Advanced STFs, know the objective, or make a visible effort to learn them by paying attention to team chat or follow along if you don't know, all is well, even if it fails.
If someone deliberately goes out of their way to cause objective fails, trying to solo the other end of the map, to talk down at my DPS which has never happened (my Alts are still capable of most if not all advanced STFs and I do use them - 3 of which still need some work) then no they can forget ever teaming up with me again.
Don't get bullied out of STFs just because some are hostile. Follow the simple advice above and everyone can have a good and rewarding time.
That said, yes I do get angry at the team (Romulans celebrate their freedom of emotional expression), take leaver penalties, and could care less, and in such cases which are more often than not, the team deserves nothing more.
I also hate people joining the PvEs and as soon as the mission starts they leave. This can make it even harder to do, for an example on Infected.
That's still happening? It's been a while since I've seen that, though in all honesty, It's been rare enough altogether I tried any STFs.
I don't see a war between the DPS trolls (not all DPSers, just the trolls) vs non-DPSers. That implies both are actively engaged in hostilities. The way I see it, the DPS-trolls are just plain savagely ripping the non-mega-DPSers apart. And when some of the non-mega-DPSers even put a rather civil post or thread protesting such putridity, it's all of a sudden they who are trolling/flaming/etc? When will this hate end?
Sometimes, but i've been in the situation that i was the "leaver" simply because i crashed on map transfer.
Either way i keep the team chat open, say hi at the start and if the team deserves it i say GG and or TY.
Haven't had much time to do any STF this week so can't say if things have taken a turn for the worse.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
A large portion of the STO community as players are very rude. And tend to find any little reason to start a argument. However, there are many players that are very polite. And say hello at the start and goodbye at the end and so on. The idea of the game is to play it your way for you, and have fun doing it. If JoeyXbadass (This is a made up name!) don't like how you tank or how you spam grav wells, that is their issue and not yours.
I play several characters, a tank for one that usually takes all the aggro on any mission. A sci who uses grav wells and torp spread. I even have a science captain in a escort. I do have others I rarely play. However, I do pull my weight, or at least I think I do. But, on occasion I do get insulted for doing something that I know works rather well. I parse my own runs, to improve my own build. I don't post it unless someone asks, as some people would like to know.
In short, I think just playing the game and having fun is the main thing. Let the player who moaned at you, try complete the objectives without crowd control and a decent tank to keep the aggro off them while they transport red shirts up. But, to finish this off. There is no need to moan at someone when that player can just do the same mission in thirty minutes.
I apologize in advance for the cynical tone of this post.
In the end, threads like this are ultimately pointless. The reason I say this is for one thing only: anonymity. Where there is anonymity there is no accountability. When there is no accountability people will say just about anything. They know there will be no repercussions. No one standing at their door ready to confront them for their statements.
This isn't just a video game issue. This is an internet reality since the beginning. The trend will continue. The faceless trolls will continue to try to offend, hurt and ridicule. STO is not immune.
Once again I apologize for these jaded thoughts.
STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I've yet to be chastised in game.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
But then again, I'm pretty nice in general, and go out of my way not insult people. Maybe part of it is, "you get what you give", but maybe I'm just lucky to have never been in a failing game with those types that will fly off the handle.
In any event, the way people are talking here, it's like they see this behavior on a daily basis, I've not witnessed that myself.
I've yet to be chastised in game.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
But then again, I'm pretty nice in general, and go out of my way not insult people. Maybe part of it is, "you get what you give", but maybe I'm just lucky to have never been in a failing game with those types that will fly off the handle.
In any event, the way people are talking here, it's like they see this behavior on a daily basis, I've not witnessed that myself.
Seen it a FEW times, but outside of a random low level ISE I might run, I tend to run with STB. We tool around, and don't give a frak long as we have fun.
Go join STB. Save yourself the heart ache.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I've yet to be chastised in game.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
But then again, I'm pretty nice in general, and go out of my way not insult people. Maybe part of it is, "you get what you give", but maybe I'm just lucky to have never been in a failing game with those types that will fly off the handle.
In any event, the way people are talking here, it's like they see this behavior on a daily basis, I've not witnessed that myself.
Seen it a FEW times, but outside of a random low level ISE I might run, I tend to run with STB. We tool around, and don't give a frak long as we have fun.
Comments
But they also seem to have an issue with "lazy DPS players" (players that go into an STF knowing they are way too OP'd for it for that easy reward).
The funny thing is, they have a fix they already in use on Neverwinter. Incorporate that gear score system into STO to ensure the teams are fun for all and challenging.
Just my two cents
If Vanilla would get quotes to work on mobile, I'd show you, but for now, you'll just have to read the posts yourself.
The first thing first players should remember to do in a Counterpoint Advanced is to bring Terok Nor down to 40% in the third phase, then stop and carry over the transports from DS9 to Terok Nor.
If they don't do that, I give you permission to badmouth them lol
Let me guess : they were hurt, they had white shield and armor and they had no Rally Cry?
Right now, a pug BHE is like flipping a coin, because of the last phase where Lt. Vanderveer dies easily if the team doesn't one-shot the Spawnmother and/or someone doesn't heal him and/or CC the bugs around him efficiently.
I suggest you to find competent players in your fleet and in dedicated channels.
Gotta call shenanigans on this particular part of your post. I agree that it's best to learn by doing BUT you have normal versions of queues to learn the place in.
When you step into an advanced/elite queue, you must be able to bring a certain amount of dps to the table, that's just a fact and there's no way around it. You may have the right to join that queue, but if the mission requires you to be able to deal 10k dps bare minimum but you're only dealing 5k, I also have the right to call you out on it for dragging the team down. that does not mean I want you to uninstall the game or I'm saying something to be an elitist, it means that you're not carrying your weight and you need to improve before you come back into that mission. You may have a right to queue for said STF or mission, but I also have the right to not have to carry you if you can't pull your weight. You may have the right to press that queue button, but when your performance effects the other 4 people, you have no business being in that queue. Having minimum reasonable standards is not a bad thing as long as it doesn't become elitism.
I myself don't mind helping people learn queues, even the elite queues. I do however mind when people can't pull the minimum required or make no effort to learn when it's an elite queue.
Gotta call shenanigans on this portion as well because this is the kind of attitude that gives the dps crowd a bad rap. This section to me just comes off as jerkish. You may not have intended it to be that way but that's how it reads to me.
There's more to this game than just dps. dps is meaningless if you don't know what you're doing, or if you can't take more than 1-2 hits aka glass cannon. You can have a 200k dps ship, but if you're getting one shot the moment you even look in the direction of an enemy, that 200k ship isn't doing you any good. There are tactics that must be adhered to if you want to clear certain queues. Korfez is just one example of this. There are certain phases in that STF that require tactics to be used and you can't simply just blast your way through.
Yes dps has value, but when people equate dps to being the end all, be all, then you have a problem. I agree there's people who have no business in advanced/elite queues but we do them no favors by harping on them either.
Overall both of you have some great points, but the 2 sections I pulled out in particular are something that needed to be addressed.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
There are a lot of decent folks who enjoy maxing DPS so don't generalize. I enjoy maxing DPS on my torpedo boat partgens science ships on my tactical captain. Although any time I've tried to get a parse the lag has been so bad I only post 10-15k. I know I'm melting thinags as fast as 50kers atleast but science performance does not parse well.
I think this is a really important point here.
I was once in NORMAL queue, surrounded by Scimitards, where one comments: "Oh well, guess we'll only to carry the Science guy.", only to have me in my little Science ship do better than half of em, because my damage AOE.
This is the way the game has been steered for profit.
. How many times have we heard in interviews that escorts sold better and that's why they offer more of them?
. Delta Rising in increasing the ranks, increased difficulty by increasing baddie hit points to encourage players to upgrade their gear. Upgrading gear is insanely expensive and extremely profitable.
. Look at all of the really best "go to" traits and abilities being released in lockboxes lately, I'll point the finger straight at Kemocite, but I'm absolutely sure there are PLENTY of others.
They all get released INSANELY broken, which I feel only helps to drive up lockbox sales and profits, only to have players complain once they discover these things are so unbalanced, (see players, we listen to you and because YOU asked for it.....) leading to the eventual nerf AFTER they have your money. But hey, they players requested it, so no culpability.
Then there are those players that judge because you aren't, or can't buy into the whole ultimate build phenom.
They are the uncompensated salesmen for Cryptic, Judging other players they feel are unworthy of being on their team because they can't kill things in under 5 seconds.
They have driven up performance expectations, raised the bar so that in order to be worthy, you feel the need to get all that expensive TRIBBLE.
Funny thing is tho, we've been shown by knowledgeable players who have the time to research things, that this expensive stuff for MOST content, isn't necessary, but can you compete with someone using all this broken stuff killing everything that flies in under 5 seconds?
Especially with rewards and the AFK preventative measures comparing performance as well?
I feel it is important to point out that I'm not talking about elite queues or content, they are an animal of a whole different color.
It's an important point to make but at the end of the day there are just certain people who have no business being in certain queues. Simply because you have the ability to queue for something doesn't mean you should or that you're ready for it. When you under perform and it effects the other 4 members of your team, they have every right to call you out for it. It's not fair that they should have to make up for your shortcomings.
Also have you ever considered that perhaps sometimes things get released that are just straight broken and the "nerfs" are actually justified. one example being the embassy consoles before plasma doping was removed. when it was discovered that they benefited from +beam consoles, you can't honestly have expected them not to do anything about it. You also couldn't seriously have expected them to let kemocite stick around in its broken state.
With the level cap being raised you should have known also the performance bar would be raised as well. comes with the territory of mmos.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
And I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly in elite queues, which is why I added it. But you still get this attitude even in normal queues, which I pointed out. So where else can a player go to "learn"?
And after a player has mastered normal, what happens then? Does that mean that's the end of the learning curve? No, they go onto advanced. Where they will have to stumble bleary eyed into the next level. The learning curve continues, hopefully there.
No, I don't expect broken stuff to stay in the game, you are correct and I concede to this point, but you have to admit they can be very profitable mistakes. That should raise concerns, particularly if the same situation seems to repeats itself lockbox after lockbox offering.
Doesn't this stuff get tested? AT ALL ?
Is it unreasonable to ask this with rare stuff that people might spend more REAL MONEY trying to obtain then they might the average C store offerings?
Blanket statement, stating the obvious maybe, but Yes I expected that, BUT again, LEARNING CURVE, lots of new players step into this game for the first time. THERE IS A TON to learn for the new player and STO isn't really particularly good at teaching players how to succeed in my opinion.
The casual player, without help may have a harder time of it that's all. That's where more knowledgeable players role should come in.
Look, I concede to your point about the harder queues, that's the reason I personally stay out of most of them myself. But this attitude is also in normal queues too.
Again, not everyone has hours to play the game, some are gonna learn at a different pace.
You're always gonna find trolls and people who just don't wanna learn, I'm not talking about them.
Edit
I wanna add one more point, then I'm done.
A little courtesy won't kill ya.
I feel this is important to add. There are a lot of people who behave in a way, I am quite certain would be frowned upon out in the real world. Especially towards players they consider to be noobs.
I realize I'm not on the popular opinion here, that's okay. This is a video game, not the real world, I know. I can still see ALL your points. But we do deal with REAL PEOPLE some who are not attracted to MMOs particularly as they are to the franchise. We need to keep this in mind too.
If this game is to continue and thrive, we need new players, lots of them to play and stay. Being DECENT to them might help.
Maybe then queues might get more attendance then what we've been seeing.
So why close your chat? Is it because of the whiners in the team? Why are you affected by them? Is it because of people calling out mistakes you might be doing? Is your pride that high to not accept that maybe they do have a point? Or do you think you are higher than everyone else in the game?
Most of the time I see someone call other people idiots (or something similar) in a team are actually among the lowest contributors (damage, heals and attacks-in) of the team. Some of the biggest whiners I've seen in teams are people who actually don't know the basic strategy of that run. I've rarely run into someone who actually did respectable DPS call out other people (I can remember only 3 instances since I started playing this game last year).
Every player in this game started out as a noob, not knowing what to do in a map or build their ships. I think the best players are those who were humble enough to admit that there are better players out there, there is a right and wrong way of doing things and there is room to improve one's gameplay within the resources available to them. The best players understand the team aspect of the game and the importance of working together with the people around them in a queue. I'm sure they've been on the receiving end of the rants the OP is talking about. The difference is they either let it go or use that feedback to find ways to improve themselves on the next run.
Reading this thread shows how elitism goes both ways. There are the alleged "elitist DPSer's" who call people out for their mistakes or unpreparedness in chat, there are elitist non-DPSer's who jump on every forum thread to talk about how dumb DPSer's are for chasing the damage carrot and there are elitist casuals who belittle players for trying to play the game competitively. Really, these elitist comments should stop.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Some of the other comments would be like "get better equipment" or "learn the fking mission"; Most if not all of these people will just type about 100 words to say this and why everyone else is flying and/or fighting enemies they don't give helpful comments. I wish those people go and o the PvP missions instead but I think they can't because they don't have any friends to do them.
YOU TRIBBLE
that's not why we post numbers you got it all wrong atleast not me .i post numbers because i have to carry people like you in stfs and yea it irks me sometimes, i would think since your in elite or advanced you've bin playing long enough to know what it takes more so for elite. even if your casual read up on what your building
I myself wish players would post MORE numbers, especially in normals, but that's just my opinion.
Normals are where I test out my new builds.
If someone deliberately goes out of their way to cause objective fails, trying to solo the other end of the map, to talk down at my DPS which has never happened (my Alts are still capable of most if not all advanced STFs and I do use them - 3 of which still need some work) then no they can forget ever teaming up with me again.
Don't get bullied out of STFs just because some are hostile. Follow the simple advice above and everyone can have a good and rewarding time.
That said, yes I do get angry at the team (Romulans celebrate their freedom of emotional expression), take leaver penalties, and could care less, and in such cases which are more often than not, the team deserves nothing more.
In my researching of builds, I came across a video where you were being rated on your build lol.
Your Curiosity build was the inspiration for a build of mine, along with the feedback you got.
But if I remember one point/critique they made was, there was a certain amount of "piloting skills" required, BEYOND the perfect build if I'm not mistaken. That's gonna take practice.
Exactly 100% with you on this and the rest of the points.
Ignore team chat, show other signs of complete ignorance if not outright trolling, and I will abandon the team because it isn't one and never was.
YOU TRIBBLE
I couldn't have put it any better myself.
That's still happening? It's been a while since I've seen that, though in all honesty, It's been rare enough altogether I tried any STFs.
I don't see a war between the DPS trolls (not all DPSers, just the trolls) vs non-DPSers. That implies both are actively engaged in hostilities. The way I see it, the DPS-trolls are just plain savagely ripping the non-mega-DPSers apart. And when some of the non-mega-DPSers even put a rather civil post or thread protesting such putridity, it's all of a sudden they who are trolling/flaming/etc? When will this hate end?
Thanks! I am still learning a lot whenever I run with other people. New ways to do things, new builds to try. I still go back to that video and other people's videos and learn new things. Learning is part of the fun for me in this game.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
YOU TRIBBLE
Well you know what they say. Its the small dogs that bark the loudest
A little communication in team chat indeed goes a looooong way!
Annorax partgen with threat you say? Remind me to team up with you in a Borg DCed run so I can sneak across and free some spheres and cubes.
BHE pug the other day... We had 2 sci's and the engi in our team says " you all kill the mother, ill keep him alive" 5 seconds later the Lt is getting pounded with slime balls while medical and shield generators are sitting around him. I guess he wanted to make him a target. Instant fail. One of the team members goes "it happens". I'm thinking no it won't happen if you don't put bug targets all around the guy. Just could only face palm at that point. I'm pretty sure it wasnt a troll, but it felt that way. I only pug that on my Sci now with heals, sweep, monitor and induction field for when he gets swarmed. And I dont even need ALL that. Kept him alive with just triage before.
Sometimes, but i've been in the situation that i was the "leaver" simply because i crashed on map transfer.
Either way i keep the team chat open, say hi at the start and if the team deserves it i say GG and or TY.
Haven't had much time to do any STF this week so can't say if things have taken a turn for the worse.
I play several characters, a tank for one that usually takes all the aggro on any mission. A sci who uses grav wells and torp spread. I even have a science captain in a escort. I do have others I rarely play. However, I do pull my weight, or at least I think I do. But, on occasion I do get insulted for doing something that I know works rather well. I parse my own runs, to improve my own build. I don't post it unless someone asks, as some people would like to know.
In short, I think just playing the game and having fun is the main thing. Let the player who moaned at you, try complete the objectives without crowd control and a decent tank to keep the aggro off them while they transport red shirts up. But, to finish this off. There is no need to moan at someone when that player can just do the same mission in thirty minutes.
In the end, threads like this are ultimately pointless. The reason I say this is for one thing only: anonymity. Where there is anonymity there is no accountability. When there is no accountability people will say just about anything. They know there will be no repercussions. No one standing at their door ready to confront them for their statements.
This isn't just a video game issue. This is an internet reality since the beginning. The trend will continue. The faceless trolls will continue to try to offend, hurt and ridicule. STO is not immune.
Once again I apologize for these jaded thoughts.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
But then again, I'm pretty nice in general, and go out of my way not insult people. Maybe part of it is, "you get what you give", but maybe I'm just lucky to have never been in a failing game with those types that will fly off the handle.
In any event, the way people are talking here, it's like they see this behavior on a daily basis, I've not witnessed that myself.
Seen it a FEW times, but outside of a random low level ISE I might run, I tend to run with STB. We tool around, and don't give a frak long as we have fun.
Go join STB. Save yourself the heart ache.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Nice MJ clip
I laughed