some of it anyways, I'm pretty sure you can't take out the third nacelle.
No, the third nacelle and the spinal lance are still there. They just can't be removed from the ship without simply just making it a Gal-X In-Name-Only.
I totally agree with Probert about how a three-nacelle design breaks the loose rules about Federation starship design.
I will give the Cryptic design team credit, though. They took a design that I hated and actually made it look decent on the Yamato. It's still an abomination with an extra nacelle, but it doesn't look like somebody stuck a bunch of parts on a Galaxy and called it a day.
I'm less interested in these dreadnoughts than I am in some other ships I want to see. But if I wanted to fly a Fed dread, the Yamato would be my choice and not just because it's the only choice at T6.
If there are fans of the Galaxy-X Dreadnought out there, they aren't going to pretend to stop liking what is already there because Andrew Probert says he doesn't like it.
If an average person watches AGT, they're going to recognize the Galaxy-X. At the end of the show, this is what is going to linger in minds.
They aren't going to concentrate on who made the final call to put in the Galaxy-X Dreadnought, or whether or not the designer of the Galaxy-class would have approved of the Galaxy-X. I would be surprised if most random people who have watched AGT would even know who Andrew Probert is.
It's like people asking Tacofangs for... well, just about everything. He has a job. He is good at his job. He even has a lot of great ideas. But at the end of the day, he doesn't make those kinds of artistic decisions. Those are left in the hands of people above him.
As an artist, you get a degree of artistic liberty you can take, but you are always going to have your employers altering designs based on anything from marketing advice, demographics, "metrics", to throwing darts at random ideas written on post-it notes on a board and picking the direction to go from there.
Andrew Probert designed the Galaxy-class. He has a lot of great ideas about the Galaxy-class that never quite made it to fruition (I'm personally a fan of his concept art for Cetacean Ops), but he doesn't own the intellectual property of the Galaxy-class anymore than Tacofangs owns Earth Spacedock.
At least I don't think he does. I'd like to think Cryptic's lawyers are smart enough to have a durable work-for-hire agreement with their artists.
I totally agree with Probert about how a three-nacelle design breaks the loose rules about Federation starship design.
And Gene broke it when he decided to use the page of Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual that contained the Federation class in The Wrath of Khan and it goes even to The Motion Picture with the USS Entente line since that is also a reference to Star Fleet Technical Manual.
Also there is the Niagara class, sure its a graveyard ship but still its there.
A technical explanation was put but it looks to be a homage to the Franz Joseph's Federation class Dreadnought.
Probert is kinda missing the point, the Enterprise-D Dreadnought is a frankenstein ship, refitted to escape being scrapped so it looks heavily modified, of course the ship lines are "ugly" since its the whole point, its the Enterprise-D after 30 years, not the "Enterprise-E".
The Saladin and Ptolomy appeared not the Federation.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The Federation-class starship was originally seen on a display in the Starfleet Academy's training simulation in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The display was a page pulled directly from Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual.
And this is where it gets complicated. They may not have had the rights to do that and may not be able to pass the rights off to Cryptic.
ILM slipped the Millenium Falcoln into First Contact but I'm pretty sure we can't have that either.
I believe the JJ ENT is 305m which is the same as the Constitution Refit.
Design refit is one thing do to the alternate time line but scaling I don't see as changing much.
Based on some scaling things I've seen here, the proper size of the AR Connie is 366 Meters, as the only thing that would have to be disregarded is the shuttlebay scene. At 366 meters, everything else lines up and appears scaled properly. While that does make her bigger than the Prime Refit Connie, it is still a far cry from the ridiculous size of bigger than a Sovereign.
. And certainly, in the Rhode Island's case, it did exist - perhaps not in that form, but it's NCC number is lower than Voyager's, suggesting that it was commissioned before Voyager.
I actually don't believe that the registry number has anything to do with when or how many ships were built.
I kinda view it like modern day Naval Warship Registries. The USS Enterprise was CVN-65. That doesn't mean that there were 64 other carriers before her. Or the USS Dallas, SSN-700 doesn't mean there are 699 other Los Angeles Attack Subs in the fleet before her. However, it is true that ships of the same class tend to have registry numbers in a similar range. Most Connies were in the 170X range.
In my mind, Registry numbers are just unique identification numbers assigned to a ship.
I think everyone is forgetting that either A: The scan data from the USS Kelvin was downloaded to the shuttles to ensure it got back to Starfleet, or B: The shuttles themselves managed to get some scan data of their own.
The Federation-class starship was originally seen on a display in the Starfleet Academy's training simulation in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The display was a page pulled directly from Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual.
Just to make this more interesting, MA is actually wrong here. The Federation class is not visible in the movie. They used the page but the Federation is missing from it.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The Federation-class starship was originally seen on a display in the Starfleet Academy's training simulation in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The display was a page pulled directly from Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual.
The Federation-class starship was originally seen on a display in the Starfleet Academy's training simulation in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The display was a page pulled directly from Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual.
Just to make this more interesting, MA is actually wrong here. The Federation class is not visible in the movie. They used the page but the Federation is missing from it.
I made my post before I read yours, but yes, that. Though I did post proof .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Just to make this more interesting, MA is actually wrong here. The Federation class is not visible in the movie. They used the page but the Federation is missing from it.
Its just the in that page its just a dashed hull outline of the Federation class, even Scientia agrees its there but its unrecognizable.
I learned that when I looked for images, sadly ... thats it, of course the rest is still true and they certainly used that page, minus the Federation class.
I made my post before I read yours, but yes, that. Though I did post proof .
Sure, even if "technically" the page was used, just not a particular part of the page.
It's a bit of a shame though because I did quite like the Federation and I wish the Dreadnought took some more hints from it rather than from the Intel ships (or whatever it's based upon).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Sure, even if "technically" the page was used, just not a particular part of the page.
In my opinion this is so much "kinda" involved here that's it's basically not there. I mean in-universe nobody has knowledge of something that's not displayed even though it might be on the same page and it is unrecognizable to the part that it can basically be anything.
I'm not against the Federation-class idea. By the time the Constitution launched the war with the Klingons was on it's turning point, having one ship called "Federation" be a kind of refitted ship with more combat capabilities is not completely out of the question, but I stand by the view that it doesn't exist in canon. The "Dreadnaught USS Entente" line from TMP that was later muffled also doesn't really mean anything as "Dreadnaught" is not a ship classification used and it doesn't say "Federation Class". So, meh.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I believe the JJ ENT is 305m which is the same as the Constitution Refit.
Design refit is one thing do to the alternate time line but scaling I don't see as changing much.
Based on some scaling things I've seen here, the proper size of the AR Connie is 366 Meters, as the only thing that would have to be disregarded is the shuttlebay scene. At 366 meters, everything else lines up and appears scaled properly. While that does make her bigger than the Prime Refit Connie, it is still a far cry from the ridiculous size of bigger than a Sovereign.
. And certainly, in the Rhode Island's case, it did exist - perhaps not in that form, but it's NCC number is lower than Voyager's, suggesting that it was commissioned before Voyager.
I actually don't believe that the registry number has anything to do with when or how many ships were built.
I kinda view it like modern day Naval Warship Registries. The USS Enterprise was CVN-65. That doesn't mean that there were 64 other carriers before her. Or the USS Dallas, SSN-700 doesn't mean there are 699 other Los Angeles Attack Subs in the fleet before her. However, it is true that ships of the same class tend to have registry numbers in a similar range. Most Connies were in the 170X range.
In my mind, Registry numbers are just unique identification numbers assigned to a ship.
I think everyone is forgetting that either A: The scan data from the USS Kelvin was downloaded to the shuttles to ensure it got back to Starfleet, or B: The shuttles themselves managed to get some scan data of their own.
Well, if I was going to kamikaze my ship into an unknown alien craft, I'd make sure my science officer took a copy of the sensor recordings with her when she got in the shuttle.... Wait.... didn't the captain give his wife something before she left?
Incidentally, I think Cryptic could do *A* 3 nacelled Connie variant. I just don't think they could do the specific execution seen in the Federation Class or call it that.
You can in fact own a copyright to a variation of someone else's copyright (and trademarks also factor in here). It is possible, for instance, for me to design a variant of Batman just original enough that it is not strictly speaking derivative. And in that scenario, I couldn't use it because it is derivative enough that I can't use it but DC Comics ALSO wouldn't own the original developments in the design, rendering it unusable by anyone. In fact, a number of Trek ships are like this.
Now... Cryptic would probably have a strong case to make a 3-Nacelle Connie based on the Galaxy-X. 3rd nacelle tied to the engineering hull, lance, turret, fins on the struts. And if they limited this to non-Connie variants or the T1 ships, I think a Light Dreadnought could be a strong addition to the game. Maybe it could further be differentiated from the Connie by giving it, say, a Stargazer saucer and Ambassador nacelles, while retaining the feel and profile of a 3 nacelle Connie. There aren't many "lost era" ship designs aside from the Stargazer, Connie Refit, Excelsior, Miranda, and Ambassador.
And I know several devs are REALLY, REALLY into the idea of exploring the era of Trek between the launch of the Enterprise-B and the first season of TNG.
There are even a few ground uniforms from that era we haven't seen (No collar WoK, the enlisted/cadet uniform, and the uniform Janeway's dad wore in a flashback, which was a hybrid of WoK and TNG S1). (Incidentally, I think Janeway Sr's uniform was actually the ditched Generations uniform which made it into filming of a few scenes in Generations with a lower collar, left untucked, and with some gold piping added).
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
No, the third nacelle and the spinal lance are still there. They just can't be removed from the ship without simply just making it a Gal-X In-Name-Only.
I will give the Cryptic design team credit, though. They took a design that I hated and actually made it look decent on the Yamato. It's still an abomination with an extra nacelle, but it doesn't look like somebody stuck a bunch of parts on a Galaxy and called it a day.
I'm less interested in these dreadnoughts than I am in some other ships I want to see. But if I wanted to fly a Fed dread, the Yamato would be my choice and not just because it's the only choice at T6.
If there are fans of the Galaxy-X Dreadnought out there, they aren't going to pretend to stop liking what is already there because Andrew Probert says he doesn't like it.
If an average person watches AGT, they're going to recognize the Galaxy-X. At the end of the show, this is what is going to linger in minds.
They aren't going to concentrate on who made the final call to put in the Galaxy-X Dreadnought, or whether or not the designer of the Galaxy-class would have approved of the Galaxy-X. I would be surprised if most random people who have watched AGT would even know who Andrew Probert is.
It's like people asking Tacofangs for... well, just about everything. He has a job. He is good at his job. He even has a lot of great ideas. But at the end of the day, he doesn't make those kinds of artistic decisions. Those are left in the hands of people above him.
As an artist, you get a degree of artistic liberty you can take, but you are always going to have your employers altering designs based on anything from marketing advice, demographics, "metrics", to throwing darts at random ideas written on post-it notes on a board and picking the direction to go from there.
Andrew Probert designed the Galaxy-class. He has a lot of great ideas about the Galaxy-class that never quite made it to fruition (I'm personally a fan of his concept art for Cetacean Ops), but he doesn't own the intellectual property of the Galaxy-class anymore than Tacofangs owns Earth Spacedock.
At least I don't think he does. I'd like to think Cryptic's lawyers are smart enough to have a durable work-for-hire agreement with their artists.
The Saladin and Ptolomy appeared not the Federation.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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And this is where it gets complicated. They may not have had the rights to do that and may not be able to pass the rights off to Cryptic.
ILM slipped the Millenium Falcoln into First Contact but I'm pretty sure we can't have that either.
Based on some scaling things I've seen here, the proper size of the AR Connie is 366 Meters, as the only thing that would have to be disregarded is the shuttlebay scene. At 366 meters, everything else lines up and appears scaled properly. While that does make her bigger than the Prime Refit Connie, it is still a far cry from the ridiculous size of bigger than a Sovereign.
I actually don't believe that the registry number has anything to do with when or how many ships were built.
I kinda view it like modern day Naval Warship Registries. The USS Enterprise was CVN-65. That doesn't mean that there were 64 other carriers before her. Or the USS Dallas, SSN-700 doesn't mean there are 699 other Los Angeles Attack Subs in the fleet before her. However, it is true that ships of the same class tend to have registry numbers in a similar range. Most Connies were in the 170X range.
In my mind, Registry numbers are just unique identification numbers assigned to a ship.
I think everyone is forgetting that either A: The scan data from the USS Kelvin was downloaded to the shuttles to ensure it got back to Starfleet, or B: The shuttles themselves managed to get some scan data of their own.
Just to make this more interesting, MA is actually wrong here. The Federation class is not visible in the movie. They used the page but the Federation is missing from it.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
According to this it wasn't.
I made my post before I read yours, but yes, that. Though I did post proof
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It's a bit of a shame though because I did quite like the Federation and I wish the Dreadnought took some more hints from it rather than from the Intel ships (or whatever it's based upon).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Proof or not, I still won
In my opinion this is so much "kinda" involved here that's it's basically not there. I mean in-universe nobody has knowledge of something that's not displayed even though it might be on the same page and it is unrecognizable to the part that it can basically be anything.
I'm not against the Federation-class idea. By the time the Constitution launched the war with the Klingons was on it's turning point, having one ship called "Federation" be a kind of refitted ship with more combat capabilities is not completely out of the question, but I stand by the view that it doesn't exist in canon. The "Dreadnaught USS Entente" line from TMP that was later muffled also doesn't really mean anything as "Dreadnaught" is not a ship classification used and it doesn't say "Federation Class". So, meh.
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My character Tsin'xing
You can in fact own a copyright to a variation of someone else's copyright (and trademarks also factor in here). It is possible, for instance, for me to design a variant of Batman just original enough that it is not strictly speaking derivative. And in that scenario, I couldn't use it because it is derivative enough that I can't use it but DC Comics ALSO wouldn't own the original developments in the design, rendering it unusable by anyone. In fact, a number of Trek ships are like this.
Now... Cryptic would probably have a strong case to make a 3-Nacelle Connie based on the Galaxy-X. 3rd nacelle tied to the engineering hull, lance, turret, fins on the struts. And if they limited this to non-Connie variants or the T1 ships, I think a Light Dreadnought could be a strong addition to the game. Maybe it could further be differentiated from the Connie by giving it, say, a Stargazer saucer and Ambassador nacelles, while retaining the feel and profile of a 3 nacelle Connie. There aren't many "lost era" ship designs aside from the Stargazer, Connie Refit, Excelsior, Miranda, and Ambassador.
And I know several devs are REALLY, REALLY into the idea of exploring the era of Trek between the launch of the Enterprise-B and the first season of TNG.
There are even a few ground uniforms from that era we haven't seen (No collar WoK, the enlisted/cadet uniform, and the uniform Janeway's dad wore in a flashback, which was a hybrid of WoK and TNG S1). (Incidentally, I think Janeway Sr's uniform was actually the ditched Generations uniform which made it into filming of a few scenes in Generations with a lower collar, left untucked, and with some gold piping added).
And why when I am watching a movie based on TOS am I supposed to give two fracks about TNG when it has frack all to do with a TOS reboot?
Hell I'm still trying to figure out why the size of the Enterprise is that freaking important to begin with.
Because its a hold over from the TOS Enterprise, I'm guessing.