I'm rather disappointed that someone went to the effort to even put this system in place, let alone spent time on it.
What we have here essentially is Doffing. Only not.
As an out-of-game product on something web based... like the Gateway, a Phone App, or Facebook, this might be an interesting companion to STO for people who are on break at work and want a little extra.
Ingame however, it is nothing more than a tragic UI Grind which really offers no content what-so-ever, requires few assets to make or update (good on your end), and offers the end user nothing beyond the lowest possible rewards for a mind-numbingly repetitive ui interaction.
I know you guys are, as creative humans, capable of coming up with more engaging things to do in the game than cheap things like this..
I think he asked for positive & neutral feedback
as for everyone saying there is a pay to win factor in this game um no there has never been that in this game remember this is a MMO not FPS,RTS,RPG and so on you have to work to get things so yes it may be a bit of a grind at times but no where have I ever seen a pay to win factor in this game and besides no one is forcing you to use this new system as there will be other things to do.
now on to something I notice while checking this out some numbers don't match up when looking at mission at first glance example a KDF one had something like ENG 10 TAC 10 SCI 10 but after I click it to do it it would say ENG 10 TAC 110 SCI 10 not sure if it is just not showing correctly or it has something to do with the ship I have not really a big deal as I was able to do it just thought I might mention it so far what i have seen it's a good system Borticus keep it up I know you will iron it out.
now on to something I notice while checking this out some numbers don't match up when looking at mission at first glance example a KDF one had something like ENG 10 TAC 10 SCI 10 but after I click it to do it it would say ENG 10 TAC 110 SCI 10 not sure if it is just not showing correctly or it has something to do with the ship I have not really a big deal as I was able to do it just thought I might mention it so far what i have seen it's a good system Borticus keep it up I know you will iron it out.
The increased requirements are from the Event, probably something like a Doomsday Device.
I will start off by saying this feedback comes from a KDF only player.
Now having said that as things stand for me at least this system is DOA for one very simple reason....Lack of KDF ships with decent sci scores. As the KDF have a severe lack of sci ships its VERY hard to fullfill some of the missions in the KDF campaign, I'm not saying its impossible but it is difficult, but thats only the tip of the iceberg as looking through the FED campaign most assignments i have seen so far are minimum 50+ on the sci score ( with many being 80+), now this might have not been too much of a problem except for one thing...to open up some of the assignment slots we have to get to certain levels in BOTH campaigns, but as a KDF player getting anywhere in the FED campaign is going to take an insane ammount of time if its even possible at all. What makes this more annoying is that a FED player will have no trouble completing KDF campaign missions as they have a large choice of ships to easilly fill the points of any of the 3 types (TAC/ENG/SCI).
I dont know how you can solve this but somthing needs to be done to even out the disparity between the factions in the ease of completing both campaigns or as i said at the start this system will just be DOA for me.
I transfered a lvl 32 toon to Tribble to see what the system looks like for a toon which has no access to it, and although the Admiralty button is greyed out, you can still go into the interface by clicking on 'view slots' in the overview screen. Is this intentional? I see it doing no harm as no ships are available to use and map transfering/obtaining new ships from shipyard dont trigger anything to gain any.
seems.... interesting, but feels like is incompleate, maby will evolve with time.. a merging with the doff system might be a ideea
-curent tier lvl ? didnt see it anywhere ,..
-xp bar does not update untill instance changes.
-rewards i tink are to low considering u can only run a small nr of misions at a time , ... unlike doff misions
* Maintenance periods kick in as soon as the assignment completes, not when you collect rewards. If you ever go offline for a couple days, all of your ships will be back and waiting for you.
Just wanted to note that I am not seeing this, though it may be tied to the bug causing ships to finish maintenance when you log out and in.
When I log in no ships are in maintenance, but once I collect rewards from finished missions the ships then show up in the maintenance section with their full timers.
I have a question or observation. I've on my 4th round of missions and have yet to make any progress on the tour of duty... are the missions really the random and rare for tour of duty or I am just unlucky or missing something.
Is there a way to "un-attach" an event from an assignment? Like, I got the second KDF Tour of Duty mission, and... it required 95 sci due to the event. >_< Also, like, how do events work in general? Are they random, or are they tied to specific missions?
Events are random, but attached on that mission on that char until you either run it or Pass it. If you Pass the mission it comes back around, usually with a different event attached. I had that one with a Borg Conduit (+50 ALL requirements) attached, it came back in three missions with an event for something small, like +10 Eng attached instead. Also, the 'Nov' class Event DSD can nullify Sci Event attaches -- you still get the extra rewards, but whatever Sci the event adds is no longer an issue.
Is there a way to "un-attach" an event from an assignment? Like, I got the second KDF Tour of Duty mission, and... it required 95 sci due to the event. >_< Also, like, how do events work in general? Are they random, or are they tied to specific missions?
Events are random, but attached on that mission on that char until you either run it or Pass it. If you Pass the mission it comes back around, usually with a different event attached. I had that one with a Borg Conduit (+50 ALL requirements) attached, it came back in three missions with an event for something small, like +10 Eng attached instead. Also, the 'Nov' class Event DSD can nullify Sci Event attaches -- you still get the extra rewards, but whatever Sci the event adds is no longer an issue.
Oh, sweet, thanks. I didn't notice that.
Yeah, I was hoping the events would be random. I like that things will be mixed up a bit from time to time, and that we can pass if an event comes up that we don't wanna deal with. That's cool.
Next up assignments don't show their duration. So if you want to pass on an assignment because you want a shorter one, you may end up wasting your pass tokens because it keeps throwing out long assignments. If we had the duration show on both next up assignments it would allow us to make a more informed decision and prevent us from wasting our tokens.
I'd rather have ships go into maintenance only if an assignment fails, thus allowing us to keep up on assignments as we play for a few hours, like the doff system. XP to level up the campaigns would need to be increased and rewards may need to be adjusted accordingly.
The problem: I copied a character over that had 8 ships. I slotted 3 assignments, 2 of which were 30 minutes and 15 minutes. After the 2 short assignments were complete I started a 4th assignment. I had 1 free assignment slot but no ships available. 2 were in maintenance for over 20 hours and the rest were over 1 hour. I do have a bunch of c-store and event ships to reclaim, but on the test server c-store ships aren't available.
The system favors players who have accumulated a vast quantity of ships. Without having tons of ships to work with, the best new players could hope for is start assignments once a day and that's it.
Another issue is fleet ships. They can't be reclaimed for free, so players may feel they're wasting money buying fleet ships they don't want for multiple characters then discharging the ships to free up ship slots. If players decide later that maybe they want to give a fleet ship a try that they got rid of they'd have to buy it all over again. It would be nice if fleet ships were permanent unlocks per character at the very least so we could reclaim what we paid for without feeling cheated. That would include the ships you buy for 200,000 fleet credits, that can't be upgraded to T5-U, because it can take forever to build up that many fleet credits, especially in a large fleet and armada where all projects are filled before you have a chance to contribute to anything.
I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it here, but there's a typo in the 'Breen Chel Grett Warship' bonus description. It says it adds "+3 ENG or SCI per TacShip". In fact (and inline with other ships, as far as I could see), it adds +3 to ENG AND SCI per TacShip.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Would it be possible to sort ships by their stats?
Say I have a 23/50/28, and a 50/24/26.... among a bunch of lower teir stuff.
It'd be nice to have a button to arrange my ship cards by one of their stats, such as arranging them by their eng stat....
Use the "Role" dropdown to only show ships who's primary stat matches up the Role selected.
That helps somewhat but it doesn't show ships with it as a secondary stat. For example, I need Eng for an assignment but all my good eng ships are occupied, now I need to find ships with a decent eng score that aren't eng ships.
Hmm...it looks like the Maintenance timers for T6 ships went down to 12 hours? Is this the case, or is there a bug with the maintenance timer for T6 ships? I ask because T5s are still showing 20 hr 50 min timers.
Also, a mission I ran had a "-50% Maintenance" 'condition', yet the ships used for that went on their normal maintenance timers.
Thanks for the UI improvements! That helps to see the maintenance times when choosing what to use.
I don't know if this has been posted here yet, I'm only done reading about half the thread. but I'd really like to see the Following added to the System.
SHUTTLE CARDS
We saw quite often in TNG, and also more prominently in DS9 that quite often missions like the ones depicted in this system would see a handful of officers sent of in shuttles, Type 8's Type 10s or Denaubes.
So this would provide a good Lore background for shuttles in this system, but would also give another solid reason to own them. They could also help flush out the holes in some of the lower tiers.
I could seen most shuttles having no more than 15 of any one Careers and probably no more than 40 total points across all three careers.
I see shuttles being most useful for the short missions (less than 8 hours) and offering low cost and not tying up large Ships for small missions.
I don't know if this has been posted here yet, I'm only done reading about half the thread. but I'd really like to see the Following added to the System.
SHUTTLE CARDS
We saw quite often in TNG, and also more prominently in DS9 that quite often missions like the ones depicted in this system would see a handful of officers sent of in shuttles, Type 8's Type 10s or Denaubes.
So this would provide a good Lore background for shuttles in this system, but would also give another solid reason to own them. They could also help flush out the holes in some of the lower tiers.
I could seen most shuttles having no more than 15 of any one Careers and probably no more than 40 total points across all three careers.
I see shuttles being most useful for the short missions (less than 8 hours) and offering low cost and not tying up large Ships for small missions.
Bort's at least said on Reddit that it's a plan to put Shuttles in, but they had to leave them out for now to deliver a working system on time.
So in short...they're working on it! It just won't be a launch feature.
Some more positive feedback, because I really do like this system in principle even though I think it needs work:
(1) I love the concept of the tour of duty, and I love that at least the first mission is good for low-tier ships (reminds me of the misadventures of the Rotarran, haha). I'd love to see a story attached to it; it is fair to assume that that's coming?
(2) As much as I've complained on this thread about the way low-tier ships work, I really do love that you've included every. single. ship. in this system. It gives me a lot to play with, and really breathes new life into my old, disused ships/alts. That's really cool.
(3) The special abilities have potential, and (once some numbers are tweaked) I think they will give this system some really interesting depth as we try out different synergies and so forth.
(4) YAY for the Federation and Klingons being full-blown allies again, to the point where I can send my KDF ships on Fed missions and vice versa. It's cool to see the peace accord directly represented in a system like this. Here's hoping a Romulan campaign isn't too far behind.
(5) On a more personal note, good on you for making my T5 bugship UR. I no longer feel so bad about not having a T6 one, lol.
So yeah: I'm complaining a lot in this thread, but I really do think you're on the right track with this, Borticus. I think that this has the potential to be a lot of fun.
I'd like to see some "After Action Reports" that read similar to the Lore Blogs. Specifically for the Tour of Duty Missions...
They don't have to be long... 1 Paragraph would suffice, but I'd like a little story.
I'm talking for the Tour of Duty Missions only, since I figure this would be a more attainable goal than all missions.
Would it be possible to sort ships by their stats?
Say I have a 23/50/28, and a 50/24/26.... among a bunch of lower teir stuff.
It'd be nice to have a button to arrange my ship cards by one of their stats, such as arranging them by their eng stat....
Use the "Role" dropdown to only show ships who's primary stat matches up the Role selected.
That helps somewhat but it doesn't show ships with it as a secondary stat. For example, I need Eng for an assignment but all my good eng ships are occupied, now I need to find ships with a decent eng score that aren't eng ships.
Perhaps check boxes to order the ships according to highest stat, like selecting Eng will show all ships but place those with the highest Eng stat at the top of the list and go down from there. This would allow you to see all types of ships but have their stats in a better order. They can keep the drop down so if you only want to see Eng ships that's all you'd see, then click the check box to sort it by highest to lowest for the stat you want most out of your Eng ships.
Just logged on Tribble to check the latest build. Noticed a Repair time indicator added to the ships. But there are things that still bother me.
1) Still not meeting the requirements for basic missions, even with common T5 ships.
2) Still annoying that Engineering Common ships looks like they have an Epic Rarity border.
3) My KDF ran out of ships, even after not playing for a day. Literally 3/4 of my ships were in maintainance.
4) KDF still has no Science Ships that can fit some mission requirements.
5) Received Prisoners and Colonists from one Federation mission turn in, and found Prisoners went in the slot okay, but Colonists were in Boxes? Why? When they didn't want to go in, I discovered that the Prisoner / Colonist now share the same tab, which I found highly annoying.
Because a) I Couldn't see the indicator number in the tab, so I had no clue what my limits were now.
b) Federation doesn't have enough ways to get rid of KDF PRisoners, except through the Security Officer, but it's a worthless mission that only gets rid of 2 prisoners at a time. So if we're going to get Prisoners, we will need more ways to get rid of them via DOFF missions.
So please:
1) Restore Prisoners and Colonists to seperate Tabs in the DOFF UI.
2) Add more DOFF missions that get rid of Federation Prisoners
3) Add a Ship Maintainance Tab to the Admirality UI.
Note: Also be nice to tell us where we stand in upgrading Tiers. After a few hours, I quickly found my Federation was offered the 20hr Tier 1 Mission upgrade. But my KDF still yet to see it, inspite completeting 9 missions (Federation was offered after 3 missions).
Also, what's with the XP bar, it's always full. But yet no Tier Promotions? Or am I reading it wrong as not an XP bar?
That's why I'm not passing judgement on anything on Tribble, until I see what gets transferred to Holodeck.
Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of having a test server? The reason why people are being particularly critical of the system pre-release is because ALL-TOO-OFTEN, Tribble Version = Holodeck version, bugs be damned.
I think he means, that he will provide bug reports and stuff to the devs, but he's not going to write up a blog Praising or Condemning the System until it goes live.
If you want people running missions at lower then 100% chance, maybe renaming the Mission Requirements to Mission Recommendations might help? Requirements just kinda sounds like the minimum to start.
Similar with the critical, if we are using a different system then DOffing, maybe a different term might help? Bonus Reward rather then Critical Success?
On the 'Overview' page it doesn't show what level each campaign is. Just an XP bar and how many tour of duty assignments have been completed for each campaign. Edit: I see. Click the campaign in the overview page to expand it and it says what tiers you have completed. Still at a glance I can't tell.
Also, in the Admirality tab it shows up as "Level" while the expanded overview tab has it labeled as "Tier". So is it tiers or levels for the campaigns?
Also, it showed I had 4,410 XP for the Federation campaign, but in the Admirality tab it still showed it as level 0. I beamed up to my ship and it updated to show it's actually level 2. So it seems we have to change maps to get the system to update what is shown.
Comments
I think he asked for positive & neutral feedback
as for everyone saying there is a pay to win factor in this game um no there has never been that in this game remember this is a MMO not FPS,RTS,RPG and so on you have to work to get things so yes it may be a bit of a grind at times but no where have I ever seen a pay to win factor in this game and besides no one is forcing you to use this new system as there will be other things to do.
now on to something I notice while checking this out some numbers don't match up when looking at mission at first glance example a KDF one had something like ENG 10 TAC 10 SCI 10 but after I click it to do it it would say ENG 10 TAC 110 SCI 10 not sure if it is just not showing correctly or it has something to do with the ship I have not really a big deal as I was able to do it just thought I might mention it so far what i have seen it's a good system Borticus keep it up I know you will iron it out.
Now having said that as things stand for me at least this system is DOA for one very simple reason....Lack of KDF ships with decent sci scores. As the KDF have a severe lack of sci ships its VERY hard to fullfill some of the missions in the KDF campaign, I'm not saying its impossible but it is difficult, but thats only the tip of the iceberg as looking through the FED campaign most assignments i have seen so far are minimum 50+ on the sci score ( with many being 80+), now this might have not been too much of a problem except for one thing...to open up some of the assignment slots we have to get to certain levels in BOTH campaigns, but as a KDF player getting anywhere in the FED campaign is going to take an insane ammount of time if its even possible at all. What makes this more annoying is that a FED player will have no trouble completing KDF campaign missions as they have a large choice of ships to easilly fill the points of any of the 3 types (TAC/ENG/SCI).
I dont know how you can solve this but somthing needs to be done to even out the disparity between the factions in the ease of completing both campaigns or as i said at the start this system will just be DOA for me.
I transfered a lvl 32 toon to Tribble to see what the system looks like for a toon which has no access to it, and although the Admiralty button is greyed out, you can still go into the interface by clicking on 'view slots' in the overview screen. Is this intentional? I see it doing no harm as no ships are available to use and map transfering/obtaining new ships from shipyard dont trigger anything to gain any.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
Is it posible to make system so you automaticly have card of ship you own not just from Ship roster but also C-store and event ship you unlocked.
-curent tier lvl ? didnt see it anywhere ,..
-xp bar does not update untill instance changes.
-rewards i tink are to low considering u can only run a small nr of misions at a time , ... unlike doff misions
Just wanted to note that I am not seeing this, though it may be tied to the bug causing ships to finish maintenance when you log out and in.
When I log in no ships are in maintenance, but once I collect rewards from finished missions the ships then show up in the maintenance section with their full timers.
If so, we'll need another round of testing to check reward balance.
Events are random, but attached on that mission on that char until you either run it or Pass it. If you Pass the mission it comes back around, usually with a different event attached. I had that one with a Borg Conduit (+50 ALL requirements) attached, it came back in three missions with an event for something small, like +10 Eng attached instead. Also, the 'Nov' class Event DSD can nullify Sci Event attaches -- you still get the extra rewards, but whatever Sci the event adds is no longer an issue.
Oh, sweet, thanks.
Yeah, I was hoping the events would be random. I like that things will be mixed up a bit from time to time, and that we can pass if an event comes up that we don't wanna deal with. That's cool.
I have confirmed this is a bug, and will again!
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Say I have a 23/50/28, and a 50/24/26.... among a bunch of lower teir stuff.
It'd be nice to have a button to arrange my ship cards by one of their stats, such as arranging them by their eng stat....
My character Tsin'xing
That would be an incredibly handy feature.
NOT FOR LONG.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Use the "Role" dropdown to only show ships who's primary stat matches up the Role selected.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I'd rather have ships go into maintenance only if an assignment fails, thus allowing us to keep up on assignments as we play for a few hours, like the doff system. XP to level up the campaigns would need to be increased and rewards may need to be adjusted accordingly.
The problem: I copied a character over that had 8 ships. I slotted 3 assignments, 2 of which were 30 minutes and 15 minutes. After the 2 short assignments were complete I started a 4th assignment. I had 1 free assignment slot but no ships available. 2 were in maintenance for over 20 hours and the rest were over 1 hour. I do have a bunch of c-store and event ships to reclaim, but on the test server c-store ships aren't available.
The system favors players who have accumulated a vast quantity of ships. Without having tons of ships to work with, the best new players could hope for is start assignments once a day and that's it.
Another issue is fleet ships. They can't be reclaimed for free, so players may feel they're wasting money buying fleet ships they don't want for multiple characters then discharging the ships to free up ship slots. If players decide later that maybe they want to give a fleet ship a try that they got rid of they'd have to buy it all over again. It would be nice if fleet ships were permanent unlocks per character at the very least so we could reclaim what we paid for without feeling cheated. That would include the ships you buy for 200,000 fleet credits, that can't be upgraded to T5-U, because it can take forever to build up that many fleet credits, especially in a large fleet and armada where all projects are filled before you have a chance to contribute to anything.
That alone makes this entire thing worth it. This is gonna help so much with spec points and 52-60 leveling.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
My character Tsin'xing
Also, a mission I ran had a "-50% Maintenance" 'condition', yet the ships used for that went on their normal maintenance timers.
Thanks for the UI improvements! That helps to see the maintenance times when choosing what to use.
SHUTTLE CARDS
We saw quite often in TNG, and also more prominently in DS9 that quite often missions like the ones depicted in this system would see a handful of officers sent of in shuttles, Type 8's Type 10s or Denaubes.
So this would provide a good Lore background for shuttles in this system, but would also give another solid reason to own them. They could also help flush out the holes in some of the lower tiers.
I could seen most shuttles having no more than 15 of any one Careers and probably no more than 40 total points across all three careers.
I see shuttles being most useful for the short missions (less than 8 hours) and offering low cost and not tying up large Ships for small missions.
Bort's at least said on Reddit that it's a plan to put Shuttles in, but they had to leave them out for now to deliver a working system on time.
So in short...they're working on it!
I'd like to see some "After Action Reports" that read similar to the Lore Blogs. Specifically for the Tour of Duty Missions...
They don't have to be long... 1 Paragraph would suffice, but I'd like a little story.
I'm talking for the Tour of Duty Missions only, since I figure this would be a more attainable goal than all missions.
Perhaps check boxes to order the ships according to highest stat, like selecting Eng will show all ships but place those with the highest Eng stat at the top of the list and go down from there. This would allow you to see all types of ships but have their stats in a better order. They can keep the drop down so if you only want to see Eng ships that's all you'd see, then click the check box to sort it by highest to lowest for the stat you want most out of your Eng ships.
1) Still not meeting the requirements for basic missions, even with common T5 ships.
2) Still annoying that Engineering Common ships looks like they have an Epic Rarity border.
3) My KDF ran out of ships, even after not playing for a day. Literally 3/4 of my ships were in maintainance.
4) KDF still has no Science Ships that can fit some mission requirements.
5) Received Prisoners and Colonists from one Federation mission turn in, and found Prisoners went in the slot okay, but Colonists were in Boxes? Why? When they didn't want to go in, I discovered that the Prisoner / Colonist now share the same tab, which I found highly annoying.
Because a) I Couldn't see the indicator number in the tab, so I had no clue what my limits were now.
b) Federation doesn't have enough ways to get rid of KDF PRisoners, except through the Security Officer, but it's a worthless mission that only gets rid of 2 prisoners at a time. So if we're going to get Prisoners, we will need more ways to get rid of them via DOFF missions.
So please:
1) Restore Prisoners and Colonists to seperate Tabs in the DOFF UI.
2) Add more DOFF missions that get rid of Federation Prisoners
3) Add a Ship Maintainance Tab to the Admirality UI.
Note: Also be nice to tell us where we stand in upgrading Tiers. After a few hours, I quickly found my Federation was offered the 20hr Tier 1 Mission upgrade. But my KDF still yet to see it, inspite completeting 9 missions (Federation was offered after 3 missions).
Also, what's with the XP bar, it's always full. But yet no Tier Promotions? Or am I reading it wrong as not an XP bar?
I think he means, that he will provide bug reports and stuff to the devs, but he's not going to write up a blog Praising or Condemning the System until it goes live.
Similar with the critical, if we are using a different system then DOffing, maybe a different term might help? Bonus Reward rather then Critical Success?
Also, in the Admirality tab it shows up as "Level" while the expanded overview tab has it labeled as "Tier". So is it tiers or levels for the campaigns?
Also, it showed I had 4,410 XP for the Federation campaign, but in the Admirality tab it still showed it as level 0. I beamed up to my ship and it updated to show it's actually level 2. So it seems we have to change maps to get the system to update what is shown.