Level matching is already in game. All STO would have had to do was add 4, (at the time,) queues accessible to anyone with a ship of the appropriate tier. Far less work, and far more reward, than a new season starring some actor from one of the shows.
Yeah, but there's a HUGE difference between level matching and GEAR matching. The level matching system does NOT affect gear quality, or player skills. So a level 60 with a maxed spec tree, and epic gear will still do more damage than a level 10 with white gear. Even if both are level scaled to 10. Actually it doesn't matter what level they're scaled to. The person with better stuff still has better stats.
Gear is easily fixed with a temporary Mk and Quality cap based on Tier. The only thing which would be difficult is to retroactively correct the specializations and traits which, had the Tier Matching system been introduced in Season 6, would have been designed with Tier Matching in mind.
Tier Cap by Mk and Quality
Tier 1: Mk II Common
Tier 2: Mk IV Uncommon
Tier 3: Mk VI Rare
Tier 4: Mk VIII Very Rare
Tier 5: Mk X Ultra Rare
Tier 5U: Mk XII Elite
Tier 6: If you got it, bring it.
Gear Traits would be selected by the 'first on the list' method. Assume you have a Mk XIV weapon with Accx2, Dmg, CrtH, CrtD. At Mk IV Uncommon it would have only the first trait, so it would deliver the punch of a Mk IV [Acc] weapon. At Tier 3 the same weapon would deliver the punch of a Mk VI with [Acc]x2. Tier 4 would allow it to be treated as if it were a Mk VIII with [Acc]x2 [Dmg], and so on. While this might look like it's a difficult thing to do, it would be far eaiser to write the line of code to accomplish this than to describe it. It's only numbers, and that's what computers manipulate best. (I bet some programmer out there is already envisioning how to code this now.)
With this system, I could bring my vast experience to Tier 1 PvP, and discover that my years of PvE play have still not prepared me for the level of gameplay offered by the PvP community as true Tier 1 captains blow up my poor little Centaur repeatedly. But I would be playing at a level and with people with whom my level of skill is competitive after I adjusted to the learning curve, (which was the big issue in Season 5: peer matching and learning curve.) Who knows? After a time at Tier 1, I may decide to take my Tier 2 ship into PvP. Heck, it may even afford me an opportunity to bring out that Connie I love, but never play because there is no content in which to play a Tier 2 ship. Who knows, it might even spur the sale of the many lower tier ships, and then, the Holy Grail of MMO's: offer a player a reason to stick around and continue to buy products long after he's maxed out his 'perfect' build and done the story missions until his eyes bleed.
Level matching is already in game. All STO would have had to do was add 4, (at the time,) queues accessible to anyone with a ship of the appropriate tier. Far less work, and far more reward, than a new season starring some actor from one of the shows.
Yeah, but there's a HUGE difference between level matching and GEAR matching. The level matching system does NOT affect gear quality, or player skills. So a level 60 with a maxed spec tree, and epic gear will still do more damage than a level 10 with white gear. Even if both are level scaled to 10. Actually it doesn't matter what level they're scaled to. The person with better stuff still has better stats.
Gear is easily fixed with a temporary Mk and Quality cap based on Tier. The only thing which would be difficult is to retroactively correct the specializations and traits which, had the Tier Matching system been introduced in Season 6, would have been designed with Tier Matching in mind.
Tier Cap by Mk and Quality
Tier 1: Mk II Common
Tier 2: Mk IV Uncommon
Tier 3: Mk VI Rare
Tier 4: Mk VIII Very Rare
Tier 5: Mk X Ultra Rare
Tier 5U: Mk XII Elite
Tier 6: If you got it, bring it.
Gear Traits would be selected by the 'first on the list' method. Assume you have a Mk XIV weapon with Accx2, Dmg, CrtH, CrtD. At Mk IV Uncommon it would have only the first trait, so it would deliver the punch of a Mk IV [Acc] weapon. At Tier 3 the same weapon would deliver the punch of a Mk VI with [Acc]x2. Tier 4 would allow it to be treated as if it were a Mk VIII with [Acc]x2 [Dmg], and so on. While this might look like it's a difficult thing to do, it would be far eaiser to write the line of code to accomplish this than to describe it. It's only numbers, and that's what computers manipulate best. (I bet some programmer out there is already envisioning how to code this now.)
Actually, as an amateur programmer, I'd say it sounds like a nightmare...
The trick is not coming up with an algorithm to choose reduced stats, the trick is in how it changes dozens of variables but only temporarily. See, that's part of why level scaling is different. It changes more than one variable, but simple variables. It sets base stats to work at a lower level. It does cap the mk of gear, but it kinda stops there.
It gets even more interesting when you consider that the rarity of space weapons changes their DPS directly. An [Acc]x3 weapon does more damage than a common of the same mk simply because it's purple quality.
I fail to see the nightmare you envision. I am not intentionally being obtuse: I am stating that the derivative variables should change when the primary stats are altered. This is not a problem; it's how it should work. Are you saying these derivative variables are hard-coded and cannot be changed?
In your example, a purple [Acc]x3 weapon does more damage. Reducing its properties to uncommon with only [Acc] x1 would not be a problem, as it would have the desired result of less damage and accuracy. If V>n, then V=n, (where V is the variable in question and n is the number of that tier's cap for that stat.) It's not a hard formula to figure out, and it can plug into any existing algorithm that uses the particular variable in question. Even a Pentium II could handle that modification without noticeable lag.
You see, as of Season 5, the real issues were the vertical learning curve to enter competitive PvP, and the more or less linear rise of power based on time played, (due to the opportunity to acquire more and better gear.) Now, of course, we have specializations and traits as well, which is another kettle of fish to fry. My proposed solution, at the time, (as well as proposals made by others,) would have put some horizontal slope to the learning curve, so that players would not be completely put off of PvP by their first entry into Kerrat. With every update that this problem goes unaddressed, it becomes that much more difficult to go back and fix it and, at some point, (we may have already passed it by now,) all of the Duct Tape in the world couldn't fix it.
That's the thing about missed opportunities: you can't go back and do it over. At least, in STO's case, not without cheesing off a lot of players who have put hard effort into making the game work for them as it is. But, what do we do about all those players the current system cheesed off? I'm willing to bet they outnumber, and outspent, the players who are still here.
The issue is with the geometric complexity of things that use weapon stats. It'd probably take ten times as much processing in the end when you take into account all the different things that interact with ship weapons.
What I find particularly sad is that we have all of these beautiful Cruisers in game and if you fly one, you are only flying it for fluff and RP. So this should be called Escort Trek, not Star Trek. This game has done what most other MMO's based off a popular theme has done, they take the popular theme out of the game by breaking the mechanics that made the theme viable and leaving us with a shadow of what the game should have been.
This is what saddens me the most. I have an Engineer in a very beautiful Fleet Star Cruiser Varient and he is not even needed nor wanted in any situation this game has to throw at us. So if I want to be a viable and helpful team player, I am forced to adapt and play a Tactical Officer in an Escort and be a part of the Escort Trek Community.
This game does not feel like Star Trek to me, it feels like Buck Rogers or Battlestar Galactica.
What I find particularly sad is that we have all of these beautiful Cruisers in game and if you fly one, you are only flying it for fluff and RP. So this should be called Escort Trek, not Star Trek. This game has done what most other MMO's based off a popular theme has done, they take the popular theme out of the game by breaking the mechanics that made the theme viable and leaving us with a shadow of what the game should have been.
This is what saddens me the most. I have an Engineer in a very beautiful Fleet Star Cruiser Varient and he is not even needed nor wanted in any situation this game has to throw at us. So if I want to be a viable and helpful team player, I am forced to adapt and play a Tactical Officer in an Escort and be a part of the Escort Trek Community.
This game does not feel like Star Trek to me, it feels like Buck Rogers or Battlestar Galactica.
Sorry but if you think that way it means you havent played every situation, every difficulty at every STF in this game.
Let this thread die because tanking exists in game. There is even a tanking community in game. certain players even posted tips in tanking for you which you ignored right after your OP.
If you dont know how to tank nor its uses in any of the STF, it only means you dont know how to tank or the STF where tanks flourish. It doesnt mean if you dont know tanking nor it uses, the mechanics nor the community doesnt embrace. You are not the center of the world.
As mentioned in my OP, I did a bit of research prior to making this post. The biggest complain I seen was that the consoles that gained threat cost highly in other areas. Such as, resistance, or shield regeneration/Max Capacity consoles or the likes. This was why people were actually suggesting NOT to get those consoles. I myself am going to give them a shot and see how they work before I give up. I'm willing to bet they do nothing to help though, as I have seen nobody say anything good about them as of yet.
Wait whaaaaaa...? These are the best sci consoles in the game.
I just got into tanking on one of my toons, mainly by accident. I was running a Reciprocity build and I bought an Arbiter just for the trait and I noticed I was taking anywhere from 50 to 75% of the damage in rounds and decided to just call myself a tank (and switch out DEM3 for A2SIF3) and have fun with it.
Here is how to draw aggro:
1. Do damage. NPCs attack the player who is attacking them more. It helps that my tank can do 45K-ish (which is less than what that toon does in escorts) while having tons of heals and a big hull. Someone else who's a better tank than me said that you can draw aggro from people doing 4x your damage if you set things up properly, but that still means that you have to be doing 1/4 their damage!
And nothing prevents tanks from doing at least 1/4 the damage other players do. No where in the definition of "tank" does it say "do extremely low damage." It just says "draw aggro" and "stay alive." So I choose to do high damage along with drawing aggro and staying alive.
2. Get close to enemies. The mechanics of aggro in STO place a high importance on distance because the system was borrowed from another Cryptic game that involved ground combat (I forget which). Get in there and fight, peta'Q!
3. Use those threat generating consoles and spec into threat. Those consoles are great! Get the ones with plasma explosion and a bonus to either flow caps (if you're using leech) or part gens (if you're using sci abilities) or just something defensive, although that's less helpful. The important thing is to get more threat and then to get some plasma explosion.
I have an Engineer in a very beautiful Fleet Star Cruiser Varient and he is not even needed nor wanted in any situation this game has to throw at us. So if I want to be a viable and helpful team player, I am forced to adapt and play a Tactical Officer in an Escort and be a part of the Escort Trek Community.
The people I tanked for in Breach Elite and HSE would certainly disagree with your statement.
And "Escorts Online" isn't a thing anymore since... years? Pretty much every T5U/T6 ship is viable at endgame now, including elite.
To put it simply, you don't need tanking, crowd control or debuffs when everything is already dead.
You are talking about VERY high end builds there. For 99.9% of the players a tank is not only useful, but in certain elites mandatory to succeed.
Actually at top end you also need roles. Cannot push to the DPS to the limit without roles/support. that is why there are Nannys and/or tanks at Top end.
It is because people only look at only at the DPS table and just the DPS than the whole parses themselves.
If they want to know what is behind all that stat, that includes healing, debuffing , tanking. If it is just DPS as the misinformed Reyan01 is posting, then no one would put debuffs and heals in their builds. But you do see heals, debuffs, including tanking stat in each parse that is if a person actually looks at the whole parse rather than just the DPS table.
I have similar feelings about healing. In all MMO's I play, that is my preferred role. Just as with Tanks, healers aren't really necessary (if you have played for any length of time).
Let me say, I have tremedous respect for tanks... and healers... and DPS... but the way this game is designed... DPS is all that is needed. Everyone can outfit their ship to do tremendous damage, while have sufficient survivability to negate the need for tanks and heals.
So it is not a matter of tanking (or healing) being broken.... they aren't... they just aren't necessary.
Can you tank, yes ... absolutely... there are plenty of guides out/builds out there to set up a wonderful tank ship, several people posting here are fantastic tanks... same with healing... but my problem (and the problem I believe the OP has) is that those roles are no longer "required", "needed", or "desirable" in any content (save maybe healers in PvP... but that seems about as dead as can be).
Could it be fixed? Could it be rebalanced... sure... would I welcome a mass rebalance and return the need for Tanks and Healers... you bet... but I don't know if the game would survive the firestorm.
So many things would need to change and with the exception of the few here who want to tank, and want to heal.... everyone else would see it as a massive nerf to their builds/abilities.
The Trinity has sailed from this game... sad... but true.
Actually at top end you also need roles. Cannot push to the DPS to the limit without roles/support. that is why there are Nannys and/or tanks at Top end.
It is because people only look at only at the DPS table and just the DPS than the whole parses themselves.
If they want to know what is behind all that stat, that includes healing, debuffing , tanking. If it is just DPS as the misinformed Reyan01 is posting, then no one would put debuffs and heals in their builds. But you do see heals, debuffs, including tanking stat in each parse that is if a person actually looks at the whole parse rather than just the DPS table.
Agreed, but the roles are a bit different there. And nannies are for the scoreboard only, for completing a queue faster, or more efficient, nannies are a burden if you could bring another DPS ship instead.
But yeah, even in high end runs you see tanks, because with a good tank you can go without heals, thus doing more damage and complete the mission faster. But it depends on the queue. you can steamroll ISA down and kill stuff so fast that it doesn't get a chance to hurt you. Offensive defense, you don't really need a tank there if you steamroll through in under 2 minutes.
But tanks in queues like HSE are very present in the record runs. I think the current HSE speed record was a run from the Aggronauts.
I for one though love the feeling of not waiting for a tank or healer while in queue.
With that said, I don't really care that much about classes, I for one love that they pretty much removed that.
As a Science, I don't need to heal, I can be what I want like a GW maniac.
As a Engineer, I don't need to tank, I can be a tacical console maniac and focus on better hull and weapon damage then threat generation.
Beside, I been an Eng since Open beta on STO, and it is totally screwed up, cause like every other MMO, people has no respect for the "classes", and I haven't heard the word "LMAO, TRIBBLE Tank/Healer" since I left WoW.
However, you have the ability to get "classed gear" when you play with friends, but keep it voluntary when it comes to pug.
What I find particularly sad is that we have all of these beautiful Cruisers in game and if you fly one, you are only flying it for fluff and RP. So this should be called Escort Trek, not Star Trek. This game has done what most other MMO's based off a popular theme has done, they take the popular theme out of the game by breaking the mechanics that made the theme viable and leaving us with a shadow of what the game should have been.
This is what saddens me the most. I have an Engineer in a very beautiful Fleet Star Cruiser Varient and he is not even needed nor wanted in any situation this game has to throw at us. So if I want to be a viable and helpful team player, I am forced to adapt and play a Tactical Officer in an Escort and be a part of the Escort Trek Community.
This game does not feel like Star Trek to me, it feels like Buck Rogers or Battlestar Galactica.
Sorry but if you think that way it means you havent played every situation, every difficulty at every STF in this game.
Let this thread die because tanking exists in game. There is even a tanking community in game. certain players even posted tips in tanking for you which you ignored right after your OP.
If you dont know how to tank nor its uses in any of the STF, it only means you dont know how to tank or the STF where tanks flourish. It doesnt mean if you dont know tanking nor it uses, the mechanics nor the community doesnt embrace. You are not the center of the world.
I never said I played every situation in this game. However, despite how strong of a stance you stand that Tanking works in this game, there is a very obvious strong influx of players who say that Tanks are not "needed" in this game. I do not think anyone is arguing that Tanking works, the argument is that Tanks are not "needed."
Letting this thread die, as you suggest is like sticking your head in the sand and pretending like there is no problem. There is indeed a problem when the majority of the players in this game feel that Tanks are a waste of time and people would rather not have a Tank on their team. That makes it a problem. You claim Tanks are viable, I say they are not. I also say you are confusing "viable" with "working". They are working...I agree. I have even made changes and found that Tanks do indeed "work". However, let's not confuse "working" for "viable." Since Tanks are not needed in this game (and this is according to the majority of players who have posted in this thread) then it is safe to say they are not viable.
I did not ignore anything that was suggested on this thread. In fact I made every change I need to make in order to successfully Tank in this game...however, that did not make players want me on their team anymore than they wanted me before I made those changes, and the majority of players in this game still feel Tanks are useless in a team. Tanks only slow progress. Do not blame me for how others feel toward Tanks. You are getting angry with the wrong person. Remember, I am on your side here...I want to see Tanks viable and needed in this game. I am not trying to abolish Tanks. The way you respond to me gives me the impression that you somehow feel threatened by my posts. I only post what I see as true.
Truth: Tanks can and do work in this game if you build absolutely correctly with little room for anything less than a particular build and set-up.
Truth: The majority of players in this game feel they do not need Tanks, nor do they want Tanks on their teams because Tactical Officers in small Escorts are perfectly capable of staying alive without a Tank and feel that Tanks only slow progress.
This is where the problem exists. It has even been mentioned that players do not even want Tanks in this game even if Tanks were made viable. People do not want another "Holy Trinity" in this game, which gives this game a whole new problem. Without a Holy Trinity for this game, how do we make Engineers in Cruisers viable? It would seem all people want are DPS DPS DPS and anything other than a Tactical Officer in a small Escort is simply hindering the team's progress. So if this is how players feel, how do we make everything else viable and accepted to teams?
Even when we take out the Holy Trinity idea for this game, we are still left with the same problem. So either way, changes are needed. We either give this game challenges that can not be done without Tanks and rework some of the mechanics for this game, or we ignore the Holy Trinity and find an actual use for Engineers in Cruisers that makes them wanted in teams. Either way, changes are needed.
So you may want to tone your attitude down a bit toward me and stop being so offended by my posts. I am trying to help here and if you truly believe your Tank is needed or wanted by the majority of the players posting, then your argument is not with me...it is with them. I'm sure your fleet is happy with your Tank...but will players who are determined that Tanks are useless find you useful? That would be an interesting challenge. Find a challenge that these DPS guys would have to admit that they need a Tank and can not accomplish this challenge without one. I would love to see them eat crow and would love to see you prove them wrong. However...to the best of my knowledge, this has yet to be accomplished and until it is accomplished, we are right back to square one...Tanks are not wanted nor needed because there is nothing in this game a team full of nothing but DPS Escorts can not accomplish.
Facts
1: Tanks are not desired by the majority of the players because players feel Tanks only slow progress.
2: Tanks can work when applied properly, however Tanks are still not required nor desired by the majority of players.
You can defend Tanks all day long, but until the majority of players feel Tanks are needed, you defending the Tanks is not helping to make the changes necessary to make them desirable and viable for this game. You are only hindering their progress by coming to these forums and defending their current status and actually believing that Tanks are viable. I can assure you, they are not viable in this game. If they were viable, players would not have swarmed to this thread to expressively announce that Tanks are a waste of team space. If Tanks were truly viable, there would be no argument here at all. In fact, if they were needed, my thread would have met nothing but resistance. You can not ignore the things people say. If people did not truly believe that Tanks were not needed or wanted, they would only be shooting themselves in the foot by saying so. I seriously doubt anyone would make such a bold claim if they did not truly believe their claim. It would be completely counter productive to make such a claim if they did not feel that claim to be based off truth.
Having said that, I would be doing Tanks an injustice if I were to "let this thread die."
i was trying to go the other route, minus threat gen to the max so i could fly past enemies without them immediately firing 50 torpedoes at me, but even with -70%+ threat gen console and without firing a single shot i'm still targeted and shot at as soon as i'm in range, even if the enemy group's already fighting another player.
even if an enemy group spawns close to players, it looks like i'm being fired at first. is the value inverted maybe, and instead of decreasing threat i'm increasing it?
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
I instead put my engineer in a glass-cannon ship (few BOff heals, many offensive abilities). It actually kind of works. Where my tacs might use a BOff slot for a heal, my engineer can rely on the captain abilities to tank, and can mostly focus on dps with the ship itself.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
TLDR. The fact is that when the game first came out there WAS the holy trinity and Q's did require 1 healer 1 tank and 3 dps. Those days are gone. I watched over the years as the power creep became gradually more apparent as newer ships with more and more broken abilities made their way in. At the state the game is at now there is no going back. The reasonable this game to do is just have you make a "Captian" and give us the Career tree much like the specialization tree. This would be more in line with what we see in star trek like with Janeway and Picard in that they have extensive tactical knowledge but they dabbled in other areas of study. Picard had some scientific background and a fair knowledge of engineering while Janeway was a highly respected and accomplished scientist.
I for one though love the feeling of not waiting for a tank or healer while in queue.
With that said, I don't really care that much about classes, I for one love that they pretty much removed that.
As a Science, I don't need to heal, I can be what I want like a GW maniac.
As a Engineer, I don't need to tank, I can be a tacical console maniac and focus on better hull and weapon damage then threat generation.
Beside, I been an Eng since Open beta on STO, and it is totally screwed up, cause like every other MMO, people has no respect for the "classes", and I haven't heard the word "LMAO, TRIBBLE Tank/Healer" since I left WoW.
However, you have the ability to get "classed gear" when you play with friends, but keep it voluntary when it comes to pug.
The whole idea of "Classed gear" "Set roles" it's all obsolete. I like how STO has build freedom. I like how I can be what I want. DPS is out of control yes, but that can be fixed without destroying the freedom we all have to choose how we do it.
It's the responsible thing to do. Balance the game without destroying the reason people play: Fun.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I for one though love the feeling of not waiting for a tank or healer while in queue.
With that said, I don't really care that much about classes, I for one love that they pretty much removed that.
As a Science, I don't need to heal, I can be what I want like a GW maniac.
As a Engineer, I don't need to tank, I can be a tacical console maniac and focus on better hull and weapon damage then threat generation.
Beside, I been an Eng since Open beta on STO, and it is totally screwed up, cause like every other MMO, people has no respect for the "classes", and I haven't heard the word "LMAO, TRIBBLE Tank/Healer" since I left WoW.
However, you have the ability to get "classed gear" when you play with friends, but keep it voluntary when it comes to pug.
The whole idea of "Classed gear" "Set roles" it's all obsolete. I like how STO has build freedom. I like how I can be what I want. DPS is out of control yes, but that can be fixed without destroying the freedom we all have to choose how we do it.
It's the responsible thing to do. Balance the game without destroying the reason people play: Fun.
The concept of playing different roles in a group is far from obsolete. It simply does not apply to this single player game. I laugh at the children who talk about a game 'trinity'. Where do you kids put utility in your 'trinity'? Utility as in buffs, debuffs, crowd control and anything else that is not part of tanking, healing, or deepsing. The only people who think there is a 'trinity' in gaming are people with absolutely no clue about MMOs.
All of the traditional roles that exist in real MMOs actually are an important part of Singleplayer Trek Online. It's just that they are combined in every ship.
You think you have build freedom and can play what you want? No, no you cannot. You will play deeps. You are not permitted to play anything but deeps.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
If you can add atleast two embassy consoles with added threat and put skill points in threat you will get like 400% more threat. So basically if you are doing 20k DPS you can aggro anyone below 100k DPS which should be more than enough.
There are other ways to increase threat but keep in mind it's all tied to DPS if I recall. You don't need to be a monster you just need a respectable 20-30k which is reasonably easy to achieve with a few simple rules.
Comments
Gear is easily fixed with a temporary Mk and Quality cap based on Tier. The only thing which would be difficult is to retroactively correct the specializations and traits which, had the Tier Matching system been introduced in Season 6, would have been designed with Tier Matching in mind.
Tier Cap by Mk and Quality
Tier 1: Mk II Common
Tier 2: Mk IV Uncommon
Tier 3: Mk VI Rare
Tier 4: Mk VIII Very Rare
Tier 5: Mk X Ultra Rare
Tier 5U: Mk XII Elite
Tier 6: If you got it, bring it.
Gear Traits would be selected by the 'first on the list' method. Assume you have a Mk XIV weapon with Accx2, Dmg, CrtH, CrtD. At Mk IV Uncommon it would have only the first trait, so it would deliver the punch of a Mk IV [Acc] weapon. At Tier 3 the same weapon would deliver the punch of a Mk VI with [Acc]x2. Tier 4 would allow it to be treated as if it were a Mk VIII with [Acc]x2 [Dmg], and so on. While this might look like it's a difficult thing to do, it would be far eaiser to write the line of code to accomplish this than to describe it. It's only numbers, and that's what computers manipulate best. (I bet some programmer out there is already envisioning how to code this now.)
With this system, I could bring my vast experience to Tier 1 PvP, and discover that my years of PvE play have still not prepared me for the level of gameplay offered by the PvP community as true Tier 1 captains blow up my poor little Centaur repeatedly. But I would be playing at a level and with people with whom my level of skill is competitive after I adjusted to the learning curve, (which was the big issue in Season 5: peer matching and learning curve.) Who knows? After a time at Tier 1, I may decide to take my Tier 2 ship into PvP. Heck, it may even afford me an opportunity to bring out that Connie I love, but never play because there is no content in which to play a Tier 2 ship. Who knows, it might even spur the sale of the many lower tier ships, and then, the Holy Grail of MMO's: offer a player a reason to stick around and continue to buy products long after he's maxed out his 'perfect' build and done the story missions until his eyes bleed.
The trick is not coming up with an algorithm to choose reduced stats, the trick is in how it changes dozens of variables but only temporarily. See, that's part of why level scaling is different. It changes more than one variable, but simple variables. It sets base stats to work at a lower level. It does cap the mk of gear, but it kinda stops there.
It gets even more interesting when you consider that the rarity of space weapons changes their DPS directly. An [Acc]x3 weapon does more damage than a common of the same mk simply because it's purple quality.
My character Tsin'xing
In your example, a purple [Acc]x3 weapon does more damage. Reducing its properties to uncommon with only [Acc] x1 would not be a problem, as it would have the desired result of less damage and accuracy. If V>n, then V=n, (where V is the variable in question and n is the number of that tier's cap for that stat.) It's not a hard formula to figure out, and it can plug into any existing algorithm that uses the particular variable in question. Even a Pentium II could handle that modification without noticeable lag.
You see, as of Season 5, the real issues were the vertical learning curve to enter competitive PvP, and the more or less linear rise of power based on time played, (due to the opportunity to acquire more and better gear.) Now, of course, we have specializations and traits as well, which is another kettle of fish to fry. My proposed solution, at the time, (as well as proposals made by others,) would have put some horizontal slope to the learning curve, so that players would not be completely put off of PvP by their first entry into Kerrat. With every update that this problem goes unaddressed, it becomes that much more difficult to go back and fix it and, at some point, (we may have already passed it by now,) all of the Duct Tape in the world couldn't fix it.
That's the thing about missed opportunities: you can't go back and do it over. At least, in STO's case, not without cheesing off a lot of players who have put hard effort into making the game work for them as it is. But, what do we do about all those players the current system cheesed off? I'm willing to bet they outnumber, and outspent, the players who are still here.
My character Tsin'xing
This is what saddens me the most. I have an Engineer in a very beautiful Fleet Star Cruiser Varient and he is not even needed nor wanted in any situation this game has to throw at us. So if I want to be a viable and helpful team player, I am forced to adapt and play a Tactical Officer in an Escort and be a part of the Escort Trek Community.
This game does not feel like Star Trek to me, it feels like Buck Rogers or Battlestar Galactica.
Sorry but if you think that way it means you havent played every situation, every difficulty at every STF in this game.
Let this thread die because tanking exists in game. There is even a tanking community in game. certain players even posted tips in tanking for you which you ignored right after your OP.
If you dont know how to tank nor its uses in any of the STF, it only means you dont know how to tank or the STF where tanks flourish. It doesnt mean if you dont know tanking nor it uses, the mechanics nor the community doesnt embrace. You are not the center of the world.
Wait whaaaaaa...? These are the best sci consoles in the game.
I just got into tanking on one of my toons, mainly by accident. I was running a Reciprocity build and I bought an Arbiter just for the trait and I noticed I was taking anywhere from 50 to 75% of the damage in rounds and decided to just call myself a tank (and switch out DEM3 for A2SIF3) and have fun with it.
Here is how to draw aggro:
1. Do damage. NPCs attack the player who is attacking them more. It helps that my tank can do 45K-ish (which is less than what that toon does in escorts) while having tons of heals and a big hull. Someone else who's a better tank than me said that you can draw aggro from people doing 4x your damage if you set things up properly, but that still means that you have to be doing 1/4 their damage!
And nothing prevents tanks from doing at least 1/4 the damage other players do. No where in the definition of "tank" does it say "do extremely low damage." It just says "draw aggro" and "stay alive." So I choose to do high damage along with drawing aggro and staying alive.
2. Get close to enemies. The mechanics of aggro in STO place a high importance on distance because the system was borrowed from another Cryptic game that involved ground combat (I forget which). Get in there and fight, peta'Q!
3. Use those threat generating consoles and spec into threat. Those consoles are great! Get the ones with plasma explosion and a bonus to either flow caps (if you're using leech) or part gens (if you're using sci abilities) or just something defensive, although that's less helpful. The important thing is to get more threat and then to get some plasma explosion.
4. FAW: get all the enemies' attention.
The people I tanked for in Breach Elite and HSE would certainly disagree with your statement.
And "Escorts Online" isn't a thing anymore since... years? Pretty much every T5U/T6 ship is viable at endgame now, including elite.
You are talking about VERY high end builds there. For 99.9% of the players a tank is not only useful, but in certain elites mandatory to succeed.
Actually at top end you also need roles. Cannot push to the DPS to the limit without roles/support. that is why there are Nannys and/or tanks at Top end.
It is because people only look at only at the DPS table and just the DPS than the whole parses themselves.
If they want to know what is behind all that stat, that includes healing, debuffing , tanking. If it is just DPS as the misinformed Reyan01 is posting, then no one would put debuffs and heals in their builds. But you do see heals, debuffs, including tanking stat in each parse that is if a person actually looks at the whole parse rather than just the DPS table.
Let me say, I have tremedous respect for tanks... and healers... and DPS... but the way this game is designed... DPS is all that is needed. Everyone can outfit their ship to do tremendous damage, while have sufficient survivability to negate the need for tanks and heals.
So it is not a matter of tanking (or healing) being broken.... they aren't... they just aren't necessary.
Can you tank, yes ... absolutely... there are plenty of guides out/builds out there to set up a wonderful tank ship, several people posting here are fantastic tanks... same with healing... but my problem (and the problem I believe the OP has) is that those roles are no longer "required", "needed", or "desirable" in any content (save maybe healers in PvP... but that seems about as dead as can be).
Could it be fixed? Could it be rebalanced... sure... would I welcome a mass rebalance and return the need for Tanks and Healers... you bet... but I don't know if the game would survive the firestorm.
So many things would need to change and with the exception of the few here who want to tank, and want to heal.... everyone else would see it as a massive nerf to their builds/abilities.
The Trinity has sailed from this game... sad... but true.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Agreed, but the roles are a bit different there. And nannies are for the scoreboard only, for completing a queue faster, or more efficient, nannies are a burden if you could bring another DPS ship instead.
But yeah, even in high end runs you see tanks, because with a good tank you can go without heals, thus doing more damage and complete the mission faster. But it depends on the queue. you can steamroll ISA down and kill stuff so fast that it doesn't get a chance to hurt you. Offensive defense, you don't really need a tank there if you steamroll through in under 2 minutes.
But tanks in queues like HSE are very present in the record runs. I think the current HSE speed record was a run from the Aggronauts.
With that said, I don't really care that much about classes, I for one love that they pretty much removed that.
As a Science, I don't need to heal, I can be what I want like a GW maniac.
As a Engineer, I don't need to tank, I can be a tacical console maniac and focus on better hull and weapon damage then threat generation.
Beside, I been an Eng since Open beta on STO, and it is totally screwed up, cause like every other MMO, people has no respect for the "classes", and I haven't heard the word "LMAO, TRIBBLE Tank/Healer" since I left WoW.
However, you have the ability to get "classed gear" when you play with friends, but keep it voluntary when it comes to pug.
I never said I played every situation in this game. However, despite how strong of a stance you stand that Tanking works in this game, there is a very obvious strong influx of players who say that Tanks are not "needed" in this game. I do not think anyone is arguing that Tanking works, the argument is that Tanks are not "needed."
Letting this thread die, as you suggest is like sticking your head in the sand and pretending like there is no problem. There is indeed a problem when the majority of the players in this game feel that Tanks are a waste of time and people would rather not have a Tank on their team. That makes it a problem. You claim Tanks are viable, I say they are not. I also say you are confusing "viable" with "working". They are working...I agree. I have even made changes and found that Tanks do indeed "work". However, let's not confuse "working" for "viable." Since Tanks are not needed in this game (and this is according to the majority of players who have posted in this thread) then it is safe to say they are not viable.
I did not ignore anything that was suggested on this thread. In fact I made every change I need to make in order to successfully Tank in this game...however, that did not make players want me on their team anymore than they wanted me before I made those changes, and the majority of players in this game still feel Tanks are useless in a team. Tanks only slow progress. Do not blame me for how others feel toward Tanks. You are getting angry with the wrong person. Remember, I am on your side here...I want to see Tanks viable and needed in this game. I am not trying to abolish Tanks. The way you respond to me gives me the impression that you somehow feel threatened by my posts. I only post what I see as true.
Truth: Tanks can and do work in this game if you build absolutely correctly with little room for anything less than a particular build and set-up.
Truth: The majority of players in this game feel they do not need Tanks, nor do they want Tanks on their teams because Tactical Officers in small Escorts are perfectly capable of staying alive without a Tank and feel that Tanks only slow progress.
This is where the problem exists. It has even been mentioned that players do not even want Tanks in this game even if Tanks were made viable. People do not want another "Holy Trinity" in this game, which gives this game a whole new problem. Without a Holy Trinity for this game, how do we make Engineers in Cruisers viable? It would seem all people want are DPS DPS DPS and anything other than a Tactical Officer in a small Escort is simply hindering the team's progress. So if this is how players feel, how do we make everything else viable and accepted to teams?
Even when we take out the Holy Trinity idea for this game, we are still left with the same problem. So either way, changes are needed. We either give this game challenges that can not be done without Tanks and rework some of the mechanics for this game, or we ignore the Holy Trinity and find an actual use for Engineers in Cruisers that makes them wanted in teams. Either way, changes are needed.
So you may want to tone your attitude down a bit toward me and stop being so offended by my posts. I am trying to help here and if you truly believe your Tank is needed or wanted by the majority of the players posting, then your argument is not with me...it is with them. I'm sure your fleet is happy with your Tank...but will players who are determined that Tanks are useless find you useful? That would be an interesting challenge. Find a challenge that these DPS guys would have to admit that they need a Tank and can not accomplish this challenge without one. I would love to see them eat crow and would love to see you prove them wrong. However...to the best of my knowledge, this has yet to be accomplished and until it is accomplished, we are right back to square one...Tanks are not wanted nor needed because there is nothing in this game a team full of nothing but DPS Escorts can not accomplish.
Facts
1: Tanks are not desired by the majority of the players because players feel Tanks only slow progress.
2: Tanks can work when applied properly, however Tanks are still not required nor desired by the majority of players.
You can defend Tanks all day long, but until the majority of players feel Tanks are needed, you defending the Tanks is not helping to make the changes necessary to make them desirable and viable for this game. You are only hindering their progress by coming to these forums and defending their current status and actually believing that Tanks are viable. I can assure you, they are not viable in this game. If they were viable, players would not have swarmed to this thread to expressively announce that Tanks are a waste of team space. If Tanks were truly viable, there would be no argument here at all. In fact, if they were needed, my thread would have met nothing but resistance. You can not ignore the things people say. If people did not truly believe that Tanks were not needed or wanted, they would only be shooting themselves in the foot by saying so. I seriously doubt anyone would make such a bold claim if they did not truly believe their claim. It would be completely counter productive to make such a claim if they did not feel that claim to be based off truth.
Having said that, I would be doing Tanks an injustice if I were to "let this thread die."
i was trying to go the other route, minus threat gen to the max so i could fly past enemies without them immediately firing 50 torpedoes at me, but even with -70%+ threat gen console and without firing a single shot i'm still targeted and shot at as soon as i'm in range, even if the enemy group's already fighting another player.
even if an enemy group spawns close to players, it looks like i'm being fired at first. is the value inverted maybe, and instead of decreasing threat i'm increasing it?
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
No deeps, here have a 2 hour wait till the next!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My character Tsin'xing
The whole idea of "Classed gear" "Set roles" it's all obsolete. I like how STO has build freedom. I like how I can be what I want. DPS is out of control yes, but that can be fixed without destroying the freedom we all have to choose how we do it.
It's the responsible thing to do. Balance the game without destroying the reason people play: Fun.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
All of the traditional roles that exist in real MMOs actually are an important part of Singleplayer Trek Online. It's just that they are combined in every ship.
You think you have build freedom and can play what you want? No, no you cannot. You will play deeps. You are not permitted to play anything but deeps.
@pwlaughingtrendy, please smite
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
There are other ways to increase threat but keep in mind it's all tied to DPS if I recall. You don't need to be a monster you just need a respectable 20-30k which is reasonably easy to achieve with a few simple rules.