The mission has been out for several days. If you're coming to the forums or have zone or social channels displayed in chat, well, right or wrong you should probably expect to have stuff spoiled for you.
Its the equivalent of recording Game of Thrones then checking Twitter and Facebook before watching it, except worse because the places you're going in this case are specifically devoted to the subject matter.
Yeah, people shouldn't spoil stuff, but at the same time, prior to watching/playing something people shouldn't thrust themselves into situations where they should full well know spoilers will be likely. Personal responsibility is a two way street.
I vote someone builds a station just out the romulus debris belt with a nice big window, well forcefield, facing romulus. exile sela there. leave a d'k tahg on the window sill.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Soooo... we should arrest Sela for trying to destroy Vulcan?
Um... we let L'Miren and friends walk away and head back to Iconia to sit in peace despite actually destroying Romulus, trying to destroy Qo'noS and Earth, wreaking ESD... twice, essentially committing multiple counts of genocide by genetically obliterating several species to remake them into "heralds" and "servitors" who worship them,
causing a war between the Federation and Klingon Empire, and a war between those two parties and, uh, everyone else ever. Oh yeah... and all of those direct assaults which devastated the Alliance and apparently lost them a number of outposts and colonies.
And when all was said and done? We hand them a gift and make nicey-nice and let them walk away. I guess it's okay though because, uh, someone else destroyed their world and they were very upset about it.
But Sela? Yeah, she needs to be held accountable for her actions against the UFP and KDF... despite the fact that, uh, someone else destroyed her world too and she was very upset about it.
Sela is just a Human-Romulan hybrid without much power and army left and she caused the whole mess, though due to the nature of stable time loop, it's impossible to know who started the loop.
L'Miren and T'Ket are half-goddesses, have 9 more sisters, and a whole Dyson Sphere full of Herald ships that can destroy an entire galaxy. L'Miren accepts to exile herself and her fleet to Iconia and be left alone to contemplate of what they've done and T'Ket is still not willing to give up but is implied to be deprived of most of her pets by her saner sister.
Go ahead, try to arrest them. L'Miren MAY be willing to accept a trial to prove she's willing to atone for her species' crimes, but that'd just give yet another excuse for T'Ket to begin another war.
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
Why? He did nothing wrong. He slew Martok in honorable combat. Just like Worf slew Gowron. It's the Klingon Way.
And he nullified the Khitomer Accords because the Feds weren't following them anyway what with them not supporting the Klingons in their attempt to oust Undine imposters.
who's the bonehead who forgot to put her in irons and sent her to New Romulus for trial for the multitude of crimes that should see her rot in a cell forever?
Lock up Sela, shouldn't everyone on the Timeship team and leadership be locked up also? They wiped out at least one entire species by accident... that we know of. Who knows how many that they weren't aware of. And they know they wiped one out from the preserved data core.
Trying to think of where she did anything that compares to that.
I vote someone builds a station just out the romulus debris belt with a nice big window, well forcefield, facing romulus. exile sela there. leave a d'k tahg on the window sill.
The mission has been out for several days. If you're coming to the forums or have zone or social channels displayed in chat, well, right or wrong you should probably expect to have stuff spoiled for you.
Its the equivalent of recording Game of Thrones then checking Twitter and Facebook before watching it, except worse because the places you're going in this case are specifically devoted to the subject matter.
Yeah, people shouldn't spoil stuff, but at the same time, prior to watching/playing something people shouldn't thrust themselves into situations where they should full well know spoilers will be likely. Personal responsibility is a two way street.
Because it's hard to not put the spoiler in the title right -- GTFO Cryptic Whiteknight.
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
Why? He did nothing wrong. He slew Martok in honorable combat. Just like Worf slew Gowron. It's the Klingon Way.
And he nullified the Khitomer Accords because the Feds weren't following them anyway what with them not supporting the Klingons in their attempt to oust Undine imposters.
The Feds weren't following them in a thinly veiled burn and pillage campaign after shape shifters that, after the Klingons' stupidity before the Dominion War (remember they attacked Cardassia and the Federation crying "SHAPESHIFTER!" when in fact Cardassia was clean and THEY were infested). The Feds had zero--I repeat, ZERO--reason to believe the Klingons for one second. And an intelligent tactician would know, even if s/he did not agree with Federation mores, that that was how the Fed adversary would respond. Which means either J'mpok and the Klingons were just stupid (canonically possible) or wanted to provoke the Federation to war for the hell of it. Good Iconian lapdogs, either way.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
The mission has been out for several days. If you're coming to the forums or have zone or social channels displayed in chat, well, right or wrong you should probably expect to have stuff spoiled for you.
Its the equivalent of recording Game of Thrones then checking Twitter and Facebook before watching it, except worse because the places you're going in this case are specifically devoted to the subject matter.
Yeah, people shouldn't spoil stuff, but at the same time, prior to watching/playing something people shouldn't thrust themselves into situations where they should full well know spoilers will be likely. Personal responsibility is a two way street.
Because it's hard to not put the spoiler in the title right -- GTFO Cryptic Whiteknight.
First off, Cryptic Whiteknight? That's vaguely hysterical.
Secondly, "GTFO"? I'm sorry, but when exactly did you become the forum bouncer?
Lastly, like I said, people shouldn't spoil. However, it's also not hard to avoid the forums when you should know spoilers are likely, at least until you've played the mission. If you haven't, and you had it spoiled... some of that is on you too because you should have known better. Show some personal responsibility.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
Why? He did nothing wrong. He slew Martok in honorable combat. Just like Worf slew Gowron. It's the Klingon Way.
And he nullified the Khitomer Accords because the Feds weren't following them anyway what with them not supporting the Klingons in their attempt to oust Undine imposters.
The Feds weren't following them in a thinly veiled burn and pillage campaign after shape shifters that, after the Klingons' stupidity before the Dominion War (remember they attacked Cardassia and the Federation crying "SHAPESHIFTER!" when in fact Cardassia was clean and THEY were infested). The Feds had zero--I repeat, ZERO--reason to believe the Klingons for one second. And an intelligent tactician would know, even if s/he did not agree with Federation mores, that that was how the Fed adversary would respond. Which means either J'mpok and the Klingons were just stupid (canonically possible) or wanted to provoke the Federation to war for the hell of it. Good Iconian lapdogs, either way.
And this is why the fact that Shon stood up and virtually apologised to Ambassador Godzilla (I don't care to remember that pandering idiot's name, the Gorn ambassador guy) for the Federation not believing the Klingon accusations despite them presenting no evidence and shooting at anything they pleased still irks me.
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
Why? He did nothing wrong. He slew Martok in honorable combat. Just like Worf slew Gowron. It's the Klingon Way.
Here's the difference. Worf had a roomful of witnesses. Martok and J'mpok were alone in the Council chambers. The only person who would back him up was his Arbiter of Succession, his political crony and fellow mass murderer B'Vat, who didn't witness the actual death of Martok. So it's less "the Klingon Way" and more "I'm Chancellor because I said so".
You'll excuse me if I don't find that sufficient evidence to legitimately establish the succession.
And he nullified the Khitomer Accords because the Feds weren't following them anyway what with them not supporting the Klingons in their attempt to oust Undine imposters.
Let's pretend the Klingons have enough brains to be introspective for a minute. Oh, the horror! Introspection might force them to realize what a bunch of dishonorable thugs they are.
But I digress. Why, I ask, might the Federation be inclined not to believe the Klingons raving about shapeshifters? Might it be because the Klingons did it once before, forty years ago, only they turned out to be crying wolf and worse, were being played by the same shapeshifters they so feared and only weakened the quadrant for when the other shoe dropped?
And notice how conveniently the Undine happened to provide a pretext for J'mpok to do something he'd been trying to get the Empire to do since before he even became chancellor: conquer the Gorn. Almost as if they wanted the Klingons to come after them. Guess what? The Klingons were being played by the same shapeshifters they so feared and only weakened the quadrant for when the other shoe dropped.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
And the Undine didn't have a damn thing to do with J'mpok's decision to try and conquer Federation border worlds and commit crimes against sentience. tlhIngan quvHa’ghach.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
Why? He did nothing wrong. He slew Martok in honorable combat. Just like Worf slew Gowron. It's the Klingon Way.
Here's the difference. Worf had a roomful of witnesses. Martok and J'mpok were alone in the Council chambers. The only person who would back him up was his Arbiter of Succession, his political crony and fellow mass murderer B'Vat, who didn't witness the actual death of Martok. So it's less "the Klingon Way" and more "I'm Chancellor because I said so".
So do we even know if he's actually dead?
Grizzled old Martok returns to claim the leadership of the Klingon Empire, voiced by J.G. Hertzler.
Make it happen, Cryptic! I will throw money at my screen!
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
Why? He did nothing wrong. He slew Martok in honorable combat. Just like Worf slew Gowron. It's the Klingon Way.
Here's the difference. Worf had a roomful of witnesses. Martok and J'mpok were alone in the Council chambers. The only person who would back him up was his Arbiter of Succession, his political crony and fellow mass murderer B'Vat, who didn't witness the actual death of Martok. So it's less "the Klingon Way" and more "I'm Chancellor because I said so".
So do we even know if he's actually dead?
Grizzled old Martok returns to claim the leadership of the Klingon Empire, voiced by J.G. Hertzler.
Make it happen, Cryptic! I will throw money at my screen!
Yes please! Failing that, Worf for Chancellor!
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
Why? He did nothing wrong. He slew Martok in honorable combat. Just like Worf slew Gowron. It's the Klingon Way.
And he nullified the Khitomer Accords because the Feds weren't following them anyway what with them not supporting the Klingons in their attempt to oust Undine imposters.
The Feds weren't following them in a thinly veiled burn and pillage campaign after shape shifters that, after the Klingons' stupidity before the Dominion War (remember they attacked Cardassia and the Federation crying "SHAPESHIFTER!" when in fact Cardassia was clean and THEY were infested). The Feds had zero--I repeat, ZERO--reason to believe the Klingons for one second. And an intelligent tactician would know, even if s/he did not agree with Federation mores, that that was how the Fed adversary would respond. Which means either J'mpok and the Klingons were just stupid (canonically possible) or wanted to provoke the Federation to war for the hell of it. Good Iconian lapdogs, either way.
And this is why the fact that Shon stood up and virtually apologised to Ambassador Godzilla (I don't care to remember that pandering idiot's name, the Gorn ambassador guy) for the Federation not believing the Klingon accusations despite them presenting no evidence and shooting at anything they pleased still irks me.
outside the pile of dead undine from when they conqured the gorn. and starfleet being infiltrated.... for at least the 3rd time we know of.
though admiting they were wrong is rather ooc of starfleet no matter the body count.
and be nice S'taass he doing a job he hates cause it's his job.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
It's not her fault she shot that iconian, the iconians had tried to exterminate her people.
This line is emblematic of one of many of modern society's problems: moral relativism taken beyond the point of reason.
YES, IT'S HER FAULT. SHE MADE A CHOICE. SHE PULLED THE TRIGGER. Everything else is psychobabble.
It doesn't matter what you've been through, it doesn't matter how much TRIBBLE the universe has dumped on you, it doesn't matter what injustices you may or may not have suffered. You're responsible for the choices you make. Sela chose to gun down defenseless innocents. Which she'd done thousands of times before. Just like the surviving Iconians, who chose to become genocidal monsters. They're responsible for that choice. They murdered people who were 200,000 years removed from the crimes committed against them.
And they got to walk away.
The one morsel of justice in this arc was the death of M'tera, in response to her personally murdering the Preserver Archivist, and likely having given the order to nuke the rest from orbit. And we're supposed to feel bad about that.
"The Iconian War" is, as a famous Vulcan once said, "based on a moral inversion". THE BAD GUYS WON. The Iconians murdered people until they got what they wanted. The crimes of the wicked, war criminals far more horrifying than any found in real life, go unpunished.
It's...I can't even.
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
The Feds weren't following them in a thinly veiled burn and pillage campaign after shape shifters that, after the Klingons' stupidity before the Dominion War (remember they attacked Cardassia and the Federation crying "SHAPESHIFTER!" when in fact Cardassia was clean and THEY were infested). The Feds had zero--I repeat, ZERO--reason to believe the Klingons for one second.
You know...you'd think they'd at least trust Worf in the matter but no, they didn't. He worked his behind off for Starfleet and they didn't value his words. Ungrateful jerks...
And lets not forget the fact that the Klingons provided proof when they publically exposed the fake Gorn King for what he truly was.
The Feds failed to trust their closest allies and for that the Accords were revoked.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
It doesn't matter what you've been through, it doesn't matter how much TRIBBLE the universe has dumped on you, it doesn't matter what injustices you may or may not have suffered. You're responsible for the choices you make.
Except you aren't in certain circumstances, which is why things like crimes of passion exist.
You are absolutely responsible for your actions in a crime of passion. The punishment is less severe than for one committed in cold blood but you do not get a free pass.
Sela's actions were not a crime of passion. They were emblematic of a pattern and practice of past behavior. Any just court would hang her. Likewise, the Iconians had a 200,000 year cooling off period which establishes premeditation beyond any possible doubt.
To be legally found not responsible for one's actions means meeting the legal definition of insanity. This happens less than 1% of the time, regardless of what you may have seen on Law and Order.
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
The Feds weren't following them in a thinly veiled burn and pillage campaign after shape shifters that, after the Klingons' stupidity before the Dominion War (remember they attacked Cardassia and the Federation crying "SHAPESHIFTER!" when in fact Cardassia was clean and THEY were infested). The Feds had zero--I repeat, ZERO--reason to believe the Klingons for one second.
You know...you'd think they'd at least trust Worf in the matter but no, they didn't. He worked his behind off for Starfleet and they didn't value his words. Ungrateful jerks...
And lets not forget the fact that the Klingons provided proof when they publically exposed the fake Gorn King for what he truly was.
The Feds failed to trust their closest allies and for that the Accords were revoked.
At that point the Klingons had been out of the alliance for two years, thereby relieving the Federation of any responsibility it had to put up with their TRIBBLE. And the next year J'mpok declared war on the Federation. Not exactly a good way to gain friends and influence people. So either J'mpok is an idiot, or he was only out for his own glory and didn't give a damn about what the Federation thought about the Undine.
And by the way, the Gorn king was not an infiltrator; in fact he personally dueled J'mpok for his people's freedom and nearly killed him. Some of their high command and government were Undine; Slathis wasn't.
Go read the Path to 2409 again and pay closer attention.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
"The Iconian War" is, as a famous Vulcan once said, "based on a moral inversion". THE BAD GUYS WON. The Iconians murdered people until they got what they wanted. The crimes of the wicked, war criminals far more horrifying than any found in real life, go unpunished.
It's...I can't even.
Well, at least you didn't end up submitting to the Iconian leadership, doing their bidding, then either choosing to control the Herald forces to rule the galaxy under an iron fist, violate every being on a genetic level in order to turn them into twisted versions of what the Iconians want them to be or shoot a tube in order to destroy the Iconians but also destroy the Romulans because TRIBBLE any outcome that makes any sense!
And still ignores the Fed war crimes in wiping out an species even if by accident that they know of (and possibly more they don't).
You have peace, you might want to just call it a day, given everyone's hands are dirty right now.
What happened to the Imperial Romulans since that failed attack on Vulcan and Sela vanishing anyway? Is there even a faction for her to go back to and would they even take her now?
What happened to the Imperial Romulans since that failed attack on Vulcan and Sela vanishing anyway? Is there even a faction for her to go back to and would they even take her now?
According to "Uneasy Allies", the regular RSE still exists, but militarily it's a non-entity. All they could spare to fly escort for their absolute monarch was a Mogai and a retrofitted Tuffli freighter: Sela even outright says the Mogai is one of her last warbirds. Between the Tal Shiar junta and the Republic, it's effectively a defunct state.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Man I really wanted to save those peaceful iconians and Sela had to kill them!! Wonder what Jarok is thinking now that Sela admitted she was the one that caused romuluses destruction..
You are absolutely responsible for your actions in a crime of passion. The punishment is less severe than for one committed in cold blood but you do not get a free pass.
Sela's actions were not a crime of passion. They were emblematic of a pattern and practice of past behavior. Any just court would hang her. Likewise, the Iconians had a 200,000 year cooling off period which establishes premeditation beyond any possible doubt.
To be legally found not responsible for one's actions means meeting the legal definition of insanity. This happens less than 1% of the time, regardless of what you may have seen on Law and Order
I never said anything about Sela or the Iconians m8.
Regarding The Iconians however, what are we going to do? Put them on trial? They could STILL beat us, even now.
We have no basis on which to enforce a punishment.
Sure we do, but you have to think outside the box. Just take some of the Iconians' other leftover tech and threaten to use it on them unless they capitulate. I don't think an Omega particle detonation would do anything healthy to their subspace magic. They don't surrender, they're imprisoned in the Iconia system for a few centuries.
Stick's covered, so here's the carrot: they surrender and start fixing everything they broke, they get Empress Psychopath as a chew toy for as long as they want.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
Its the equivalent of recording Game of Thrones then checking Twitter and Facebook before watching it, except worse because the places you're going in this case are specifically devoted to the subject matter.
Yeah, people shouldn't spoil stuff, but at the same time, prior to watching/playing something people shouldn't thrust themselves into situations where they should full well know spoilers will be likely. Personal responsibility is a two way street.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
L'Miren and T'Ket are half-goddesses, have 9 more sisters, and a whole Dyson Sphere full of Herald ships that can destroy an entire galaxy. L'Miren accepts to exile herself and her fleet to Iconia and be left alone to contemplate of what they've done and T'Ket is still not willing to give up but is implied to be deprived of most of her pets by her saner sister.
Go ahead, try to arrest them. L'Miren MAY be willing to accept a trial to prove she's willing to atone for her species' crimes, but that'd just give yet another excuse for T'Ket to begin another war.
Can't we just all agree to have J'mpok pay for what he did to Martok and the Kithomer Accords?
And he nullified the Khitomer Accords because the Feds weren't following them anyway what with them not supporting the Klingons in their attempt to oust Undine imposters.
Lock up Sela, shouldn't everyone on the Timeship team and leadership be locked up also? They wiped out at least one entire species by accident... that we know of. Who knows how many that they weren't aware of. And they know they wiped one out from the preserved data core.
Trying to think of where she did anything that compares to that.
Because it's hard to not put the spoiler in the title right -- GTFO Cryptic Whiteknight.
The Feds weren't following them in a thinly veiled burn and pillage campaign after shape shifters that, after the Klingons' stupidity before the Dominion War (remember they attacked Cardassia and the Federation crying "SHAPESHIFTER!" when in fact Cardassia was clean and THEY were infested). The Feds had zero--I repeat, ZERO--reason to believe the Klingons for one second. And an intelligent tactician would know, even if s/he did not agree with Federation mores, that that was how the Fed adversary would respond. Which means either J'mpok and the Klingons were just stupid (canonically possible) or wanted to provoke the Federation to war for the hell of it. Good Iconian lapdogs, either way.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
First off, Cryptic Whiteknight? That's vaguely hysterical.
Secondly, "GTFO"? I'm sorry, but when exactly did you become the forum bouncer?
Lastly, like I said, people shouldn't spoil. However, it's also not hard to avoid the forums when you should know spoilers are likely, at least until you've played the mission. If you haven't, and you had it spoiled... some of that is on you too because you should have known better. Show some personal responsibility.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And this is why the fact that Shon stood up and virtually apologised to Ambassador Godzilla (I don't care to remember that pandering idiot's name, the Gorn ambassador guy) for the Federation not believing the Klingon accusations despite them presenting no evidence and shooting at anything they pleased still irks me.
You'll excuse me if I don't find that sufficient evidence to legitimately establish the succession.
Let's pretend the Klingons have enough brains to be introspective for a minute. Oh, the horror! Introspection might force them to realize what a bunch of dishonorable thugs they are.
But I digress. Why, I ask, might the Federation be inclined not to believe the Klingons raving about shapeshifters? Might it be because the Klingons did it once before, forty years ago, only they turned out to be crying wolf and worse, were being played by the same shapeshifters they so feared and only weakened the quadrant for when the other shoe dropped?
And notice how conveniently the Undine happened to provide a pretext for J'mpok to do something he'd been trying to get the Empire to do since before he even became chancellor: conquer the Gorn. Almost as if they wanted the Klingons to come after them. Guess what? The Klingons were being played by the same shapeshifters they so feared and only weakened the quadrant for when the other shoe dropped.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
And the Undine didn't have a damn thing to do with J'mpok's decision to try and conquer Federation border worlds and commit crimes against sentience. tlhIngan quvHa’ghach.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
So do we even know if he's actually dead?
Grizzled old Martok returns to claim the leadership of the Klingon Empire, voiced by J.G. Hertzler.
Make it happen, Cryptic! I will throw money at my screen!
Yes please! Failing that, Worf for Chancellor!
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
outside the pile of dead undine from when they conqured the gorn. and starfleet being infiltrated.... for at least the 3rd time we know of.
though admiting they were wrong is rather ooc of starfleet no matter the body count.
and be nice S'taass he doing a job he hates cause it's his job.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
This line is emblematic of one of many of modern society's problems: moral relativism taken beyond the point of reason.
YES, IT'S HER FAULT. SHE MADE A CHOICE. SHE PULLED THE TRIGGER. Everything else is psychobabble.
It doesn't matter what you've been through, it doesn't matter how much TRIBBLE the universe has dumped on you, it doesn't matter what injustices you may or may not have suffered. You're responsible for the choices you make. Sela chose to gun down defenseless innocents. Which she'd done thousands of times before. Just like the surviving Iconians, who chose to become genocidal monsters. They're responsible for that choice. They murdered people who were 200,000 years removed from the crimes committed against them.
And they got to walk away.
The one morsel of justice in this arc was the death of M'tera, in response to her personally murdering the Preserver Archivist, and likely having given the order to nuke the rest from orbit. And we're supposed to feel bad about that.
"The Iconian War" is, as a famous Vulcan once said, "based on a moral inversion". THE BAD GUYS WON. The Iconians murdered people until they got what they wanted. The crimes of the wicked, war criminals far more horrifying than any found in real life, go unpunished.
It's...I can't even.
And lets not forget the fact that the Klingons provided proof when they publically exposed the fake Gorn King for what he truly was.
The Feds failed to trust their closest allies and for that the Accords were revoked.
what fake king? there was no fake king; everyone in the gorn high command under slathis was an undine, but slathis himself was, well...himself
that's why he's STILL the king of the gorn hegemony
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
You are absolutely responsible for your actions in a crime of passion. The punishment is less severe than for one committed in cold blood but you do not get a free pass.
Sela's actions were not a crime of passion. They were emblematic of a pattern and practice of past behavior. Any just court would hang her. Likewise, the Iconians had a 200,000 year cooling off period which establishes premeditation beyond any possible doubt.
To be legally found not responsible for one's actions means meeting the legal definition of insanity. This happens less than 1% of the time, regardless of what you may have seen on Law and Order.
And by the way, the Gorn king was not an infiltrator; in fact he personally dueled J'mpok for his people's freedom and nearly killed him. Some of their high command and government were Undine; Slathis wasn't.
Go read the Path to 2409 again and pay closer attention.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Well, at least you didn't end up submitting to the Iconian leadership, doing their bidding, then either choosing to control the Herald forces to rule the galaxy under an iron fist, violate every being on a genetic level in order to turn them into twisted versions of what the Iconians want them to be or shoot a tube in order to destroy the Iconians but also destroy the Romulans because TRIBBLE any outcome that makes any sense!
Yes. I am still bitter about Mass Effect 3.
You have peace, you might want to just call it a day, given everyone's hands are dirty right now.
What happened to the Imperial Romulans since that failed attack on Vulcan and Sela vanishing anyway? Is there even a faction for her to go back to and would they even take her now?
According to "Uneasy Allies", the regular RSE still exists, but militarily it's a non-entity. All they could spare to fly escort for their absolute monarch was a Mogai and a retrofitted Tuffli freighter: Sela even outright says the Mogai is one of her last warbirds. Between the Tal Shiar junta and the Republic, it's effectively a defunct state.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Face palming the enemy one at a time.
Sure we do, but you have to think outside the box. Just take some of the Iconians' other leftover tech and threaten to use it on them unless they capitulate. I don't think an Omega particle detonation would do anything healthy to their subspace magic. They don't surrender, they're imprisoned in the Iconia system for a few centuries.
Stick's covered, so here's the carrot: they surrender and start fixing everything they broke, they get Empress Psychopath as a chew toy for as long as they want.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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