rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
edited June 2015
Its a bit blurry KDF side as they have BoPs, Raptors, and Battlecruisers. BoPs fall under the Raider category, and generally have all Universal BOff slots so you can have a sci or engie heavy BoP if you wanted. Raptors seem to be all over the place, and Battlecruisers tend to be more aggressive than normal cruisers.
For Romulans, ALL their ships fall under the Warbird category because of their unique Singularity Core, but can have traits from any of the categories except Raider.
Per gecko it is not merely that kdf science ships don't sell, it is that they actually lost money on them.
He did say that kdf might get another sci ship if they could clone a fed sci ship so the cost is minimized. My response to this is t6 Vesta megabundle of 9 ships pretty please! And/ or new t6 temporal science ships to go with the krenim box. ^.^
> @gavinruneblade said: > Per gecko it is not merely that kdf science ships don't sell, it is that they actually lost money on them. > > He did say that kdf might get another sci ship if they could clone a fed sci ship so the cost is minimized. My response to this is t6 Vesta megabundle of 9 ships pretty please! And/ or new t6 temporal science ships to go with the krenim box. ^.^
Vesta only for Fed ... that piece of art is not for maniacs and gorillas.
> @gavinruneblade said:
> Per gecko it is not merely that kdf science ships don't sell, it is that they actually lost money on them.
>
> He did say that kdf might get another sci ship if they could clone a fed sci ship so the cost is minimized. My response to this is t6 Vesta megabundle of 9 ships pretty please! And/ or new t6 temporal science ships to go with the krenim box. ^.^
Vesta only for Fed ... that piece of art is not for maniacs and gorillas.
Funny you should say that...being Fed only ensures that ONLY maniacs and gorillas can use it!
As someone that loves to play Science Vessels and Science Captains, I certainly want more science vessels.
Sure, you don't need to put a Science Captain in a Science Vessel, but.. I just like both. So much that my Fed Delta Recruit was a science captain, depsite already having two Fed science captains.
If you think about it Fed getting more Sci based ships makes more sense then the other factions. The Federation (post TNG) has always had a strong science presence and the other factions had more of a Tactical presence. There was mention to one Romulan science vessel in Voyager's micro wormhole episode. The other factions were pretty much kill everything and ask questions later.
The actual Romulan science vessel makes an appearance in the TNG episode "The Next Phase." But in their infinite wisdom, the STO devs made it into a shuttle skin.
science ships and science captains with the right weapons and skills are deadly. i dont know where the idea of science being a bit player has come into it. okay, one day that was true years ago when dps meant everything, but science has become far more destructive recently.
The OP wasn't talking about the effectiveness of Science gameplay (I could go into specifics... Only a few aspects of Science abilities are of any use while huge swathes are uselessly weak). He was talking about Science Vessels and their availability, which he does have a point on.
The T5/T5U ones can still do the job. But then again, the real options were best in the Fed Lineup. KDF & Rom Science Vessel options even before Profits Rising were woefully bad. T6? To date, there is still zero T6 KDF & Rom Science Vessels.
Profits Rising went live 14 October 2014. Over **8 months** later, this is the type & quantity of T6 releases.
* Counting ship packs as 1
Total T6 Escorts: 14
Total T6 Cruisers: 15
Total T6 Science Vessels: 3, all of them Fed
Total T6 Carriers: 1 Cross-Faction CV
More than 8 months since Profits Rising released and for T6 ships, it's Escorts or Cruisers or GTFO. If you're playing lots of KDF/Rom, then you're doubly out of luck because you don't have a great selection of even T5 Faction Science Vessels to fall back on. Even if restricted to T5 only, the Fed SCI Vessel selection is top notch with nothing coming close. With T6 added onto that, it's hilariously lopsided.
The rumor is they might fix the zero science T6 lockbox ships with the next lockbox (although I fear it will be yet another 4 science console ship), but knowing them, the lockbox will be filled with more DPS, more resistance, and more cooldown reduction things (and please, please, no more placate and confuse garbage) which no one really needs at this point. The trait on the Nandi is sort of a good science trait except for the drain resistance part which in reality doesn't do much in either PvP or PvE. The last science focused lockbox (except the ship in it since they decided to dump the ship into the Lobi store) was the Voth lockbox. Before that, the temporal lockbox was the last one to contain a good lockbox science ship in it.
It comes down to economics, and it seems they've given up on making a lockbox that mostly concentrates on science (Doffs, ships, traits, consoles) because "it won't sell".
Let's just face it. They hate every faction, except the Feds. There are huge disparities in more than just ship selection.
How about the traits from those ship? In most cases they don't freaking compare.. not in the least.
Yes, Roms have the Scimitar.. great..woot woot! ... Everyone has Pilot ships, and coming is the new 5 fore battlecruisers. So that's a non-issue. What is a HUGE issue, is the lack of any Commander Sci slotted ship for KDF/Rom, isn't either gorn or dyson. We've begged for them to make them, and it's been how long now?
You want players to play more than just 5/3 tac gunboats, or 4/4 cruisers, you MUST give them equal options.
This can't be done via making a "sci" ship, and giving it some stupid consoles either. It has to compare, and NOT if you use 2/3 consoles to do it. Those consoles would be weighted vs Plasmonic Leech, Tactical Crit, Sci Plasma, etc.
That stated, having the ability to toggle the sensor scan, well.. it's the hallmark of the class. (no NOT the stupid gather intel TRIBBLE)
I'd also point out, that a lot of players are looking at what they are giving up, in terms of firepower.
5/3 w/ Dual Beams, packing 2x BF@W3 w/ 80% CrtD (before consoles, traits, etc) or 8x Beam Arrays, doing the same, is a lot to ask someone to give up, for a 3/3, that lacks the sheer upfront damage of those designs. They aren't faceroll ships. Science requires A LOT of setup, thought, and effort to squeeze a respectable amount of damage from in STF's.
I'm thinking that on top of giving us equal science to all factions, lets talk about a possible rework of science as a whole. Thus, making it more "shiny" so players will want to pilot them more, other than just to get the R5 ship trait, only to put the ship in mothballs afterwards.
Lastly, please please.. don't give us carriers, call them science ships, and call it a day. Yes, Roms would like a real carrier, and yes we'd all like to see some T6 carriers, but NOT that being the only ship you give us, or some ugly, crappy slow boat. Lt. Cmdr Science != science ship, btw.
science ships and science captains with the right weapons and skills are deadly. i dont know where the idea of science being a bit player has come into it. okay, one day that was true years ago when dps meant everything, but science has become far more destructive recently.
The OP wasn't talking about the effectiveness of Science gameplay (I could go into specifics... Only a few aspects of Science abilities are of any use while huge swathes are uselessly weak). He was talking about Science Vessels and their availability, which he does have a point on.
The T5/T5U ones can still do the job. But then again, the real options were best in the Fed Lineup. KDF & Rom Science Vessel options even before Profits Rising were woefully bad. T6? To date, there is still zero T6 KDF & Rom Science Vessels.
Profits Rising went live 14 October 2014. Over **8 months** later, this is the type & quantity of T6 releases.
* Counting ship packs as 1
Total T6 Escorts: 14
Total T6 Cruisers: 15
Total T6 Science Vessels: 3, all of them Fed
Total T6 Carriers: 1 Cross-Faction CV
More than 8 months since Profits Rising released and for T6 ships, it's Escorts or Cruisers or GTFO. If you're playing lots of KDF/Rom, then you're doubly out of luck because you don't have a great selection of even T5 Faction Science Vessels to fall back on. Even if restricted to T5 only, the Fed SCI Vessel selection is top notch with nothing coming close. With T6 added onto that, it's hilariously lopsided.
The rumor is they might fix the zero science T6 lockbox ships with the next lockbox (although I fear it will be yet another 4 science console ship), but knowing them, the lockbox will be filled with more DPS, more resistance, and more cooldown reduction things (and please, please, no more placate and confuse garbage) which no one really needs at this point. The trait on the Nandi is sort of a good science trait except for the drain resistance part which in reality doesn't do much in either PvP or PvE. The last science focused lockbox (except the ship in it since they decided to dump the ship into the Lobi store) was the Voth lockbox. Before that, the temporal lockbox was the last one to contain a good lockbox science ship in it.
It comes down to economics, and it seems they've given up on making a lockbox that mostly concentrates on science (Doffs, ships, traits, consoles) because "it won't sell".
I know what ship you're talking about. But it's not a faction ship either and the counts are still awful at T6. Even with that supposed Science Vessel, the total count would still be:
Total T6 Escorts: 14
Total T6 Cruisers: 15
Total T6 Science Vessels: 3 Fed (0 KDF, 0 Rom), 1 Cross Faction
Total T6 Carriers: 1 Cross Faction CV
Those numbers are horribly slanted. And the funny part is I haven't even tossed in those other Escorts and Cruisers the "source" has found.
They may as well should just delete the entire Science Captain class, entire selection of Science Skillboxes, entire array of Science Vessels. The Bias is strong in STO's development.
They may as well should just delete the entire Science Captain class, entire selection of Science Skillboxes, entire array of Science Vessels. The Bias is strong in STO's development.
Fun fact. The Battle Cruiser thread is at 4 pages, the science vessel thread at 2. Maybe science vessels are really of little interest to players, even on the forums?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Fun fact. The Battle Cruiser thread is at 4 pages, the science vessel thread at 2. Maybe science vessels are really of little interest to players, even on the forums?
Or maybe people have lost hope that asking for something on the forums will actually change anything. I myself have been asking for a Romulan T6 science vessel countless times.
Or maybe people have lost hope that asking for something on the forums will actually change anything. I myself have been asking for a Romulan T6 science vessel countless times.
Asking on the forums does indeed influence things only marginally. According to Salamiinferno (in some interview I guess) the roadmap which ships are released at what point stands for a year or longer in advance. Forum and Reddit (Reddit is more likely to be seen actually) may influence something post the one year mark, but in certain situations it is doubtful since they "know" science ships on KDF and RR won't sell and they will not risk that. It is as another poster said: If they can safely copy-pasta a fed sci ship then maybe, maybe. Otherwise cross-faction or bust.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's a shame science ships aren't that popular. There is a false assumption that science ships cannot give high DPS numbers when in fact they are more than capable of spewing out respectable numbers; numbers that are more than enough to run all of the game's content.
Count me in. I want to see more science ships and more science-oriented traits, abilities and specialization trees in the future.
Fun fact. The Battle Cruiser thread is at 4 pages, the science vessel thread at 2. Maybe science vessels are really of little interest to players, even on the forums?
So how much does Cryptic pay you to wave their flag for them?
95% of the posts in the "T6 Battlecruiser" thread are players saying how ugly the Fed and KDF ships are. 4% are waving the old "power creep" flag due to the new Trait, and only about 1% have actually spoken about how they will fly.
This thread however is almost exclusively filled with player requesting the addition of a T6 KDF and Romulan Science ship (no matter WHAT it looks like) and how much they would love to fly one. Hmmm, I dunno, but it seems like there is a SERIOUS flaw in your reasoning.
Either that, or you MUST work for them, to continue to write the one sided, narrow visioned and obviously biased posts you do.
Fun fact. The Battle Cruiser thread is at 4 pages, the science vessel thread at 2. Maybe science vessels are really of little interest to players, even on the forums?
So how much does Cryptic pay you to wave their flag for them?
Nothing.
I am a science fan. I want more science vessels, for any faction, from lockboxes. I want more KDF ships. i want a KDF BOP and a KDF Carrier.
I still want my Yellow Science Vessel Submarine.
But if Cryptic determines that this will not generate sufficient return on investment, then all our wishful thinking and arguing without any data to back us is meaningless.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Seriously, if people think Science is weak, they're not playing it correctly. As already stated, I've found Science to be incredibly destructive. So it's a puzzle to me why they're not getting very many new ships. They should. I can only wager a guess that it's possible that most customers get the misinformed idea that Science is a "lame, weak healer class" and thus Science doesn't sell as well.
Because all people care about is the pew pew...it's easier to circle around your target spamming FaW as opposed to actually having to use some skills with Science.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
They will have a popular ship if they release a T6 Vesta. With KLW on a Torp/GW you can ROFL Stomp about anything PvE out there and not even fully upgraded. Plus there's nothing like dropping a GW3 down and watching it suck the entire map in.
I have ten characters. Four are Sci. Three are Engi. Three are Tac. I play primarily RRF. I absolutely want more Science Warbirds and KDF Science ships.
Or maybe people have lost hope that asking for something on the forums will actually change anything. I myself have been asking for a Romulan T6 science vessel countless times.
Asking on the forums does indeed influence things only marginally. According to Salamiinferno (in some interview I guess) the roadmap which ships are released at what point stands for a year or longer in advance. Forum and Reddit (Reddit is more likely to be seen actually) may influence something post the one year mark, but in certain situations it is doubtful since they "know" science ships on KDF and RR won't sell and they will not risk that. It is as another poster said: If they can safely copy-pasta a fed sci ship then maybe, maybe. Otherwise cross-faction or bust.
Maybe if they didn't make lousy ships....it's the bortasqu' effect...
They didn't even make a exclusive Romulan Sci ship...only c store one is the destroyer and people generally disliked it....has nothing to do with it being Romulan.
The only KDF Sci ship besides the destroyer was worse than the worst free Fed Sci ship...what do they expect? Another case of *Hey! Lets tank it so we don't have to make more!*
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
The other reason Science ships don't sell often is due to the cost of setting them up. They do require far more thought and work put into them in order to reach the ideal "sweet spot" where Sci players can meet or exceed the DPS levels others attain more easily with cruisers and escorts (you don't need to put in the effort for 400+ PartGens or FlowCaps if you're running a beamboat or cannonscort; just slap on as many Mk XII+ Locators as possible and some Embassy Consoles and you're good to go for FaW'ing/CSV'ing).
It doesn't help too much either that Cryptic is going by Fantasy MMO standards, where you have your Assassins/Spike DPS'ers in Escorts, Tanks/Sustained DPS'ers in Cruisers (though their aggro prioritization leaves much to be desired if trying to be a tank without enough firepower), and Root/Nuke Mages in Science Ships (where the majority of AoE abilities reside, but suffer from long CDs, which requires more build planning and testing) yet there's no real balance among them. Engineers especially suffer from a large portion of their skills sharing CDs, while even the defensive Science abilities have short duration abilities but long CDs as opposed to a Tac's short duration and short recharge abilities.
It would help if the game wasn't so DPS centric right now, and if science wasn't this entirely separate branch from everything else. I mean if I have an escort captain what use do I have for graviton generators or particle generators (and who even uses the skills past those these days?) Why would I buy a science ship if I believe I have to respec to fly it? Not everyone has alts for every ship, certainly less do after DR.
Now, personally I do have all my alts still and try to keep them relevant, but do I have a science ship alt on the KDF or Rom side? No. What would they even fly? I throw a grav well on a Scimitar, but that doesn't mean the captain flying it is remotely skilled or geared for a proper science ship. This is a problem because even if Cryptic makes a new shiney science ship for Rom/KDF, I'd have to build a new character for it or respec an old one.
That science ships have been historically nonexistent on red/green side only hurts their future, and that is entirely Cryptic's fault for not catering to that subset in the least.
That Dysons didn't sell well is no surprise to anyone. A gimmicky ship that doesn't work well in tac mode, has less science power than other science ships due to the BOFF seating, was critically bugged for months, was ugly as sin, and probably the worst of all, it suffered from an atrocious loadout in the mission supposed to showcase it which makes the mission grueling to actually play. There is just absolutely nothing redeemable about that mission's loadout. Who really wants to buy the ship after playing with it there?
But what it boils down to is that if there is not a good market for science ships, especially for Rom/KDF, it is entirely Cryptic's fault for historically not creating one and catering to it. If they really want to sell a new science ship, they need to give it something non science ship players would want, like a good trait.
How many bought the Phantom chiefly for Reciprocity? The Dauntless trait on the other hand, does anyone even care about that trait? What if they sold a Rom/KDF science ship with Reciprocity as its trait? I bet it would sell.
How many bought the Phantom chiefly for Reciprocity? The Dauntless trait on the other hand, does anyone even care about that trait? What if they sold a Rom/KDF science ship with Reciprocity as its trait? I bet it would sell.
Like I said the Bortasqu' effect, 2 out of 3 of the traits on the T6 Sci ships come with are completely useless, 2 out of 3 really have bad boff slotting which makes them undesirable, and 2 out of 3 of them are truly ugly ships.
Build something like the Vesta and people get interested...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
You make some partially correct points, namely in regards to it being somewhat Cryptic's fault we don't have more Sci ships, but ultimately you precipitate the same false ideology that STO is "DPS centric".
The game is not DPS centric, the players are, those who continue to sprout this rubbish. You can have huge DPS numbers hammering away on an NPC's 1million shields and +99% damage resists or you can remove the shields and resist buffs and destroy it's 100K hull. Which one requires, and therefore gives you higher DPS?
Which one is quicker, easier, and more effective either solo or in a party?
The players are the bigger problem in this game, due in no small part to people continuously sprouting about ridiculously high DPS numbers and claiming you must do XXXX K DPS to play.
Cryptic could help by actually "teaching" players about Debuff's and Exotic damage abilities, but they don't, the only "battle" tutorial in the game revolves around Tac abilities, and absolutely nowhere does it even partially explain what the various skills in the science tree do. (nor Engi for that matter, but most of those are self explanatory)
And you do NOT have to completely respec either, in fact 85% of the skills are pretty much standard for all toons, regardless of class, unless you are going for a very specific build which only a very knowledgeable player would likely try.
The players are the bigger problem in this game, due in no small part to people continuously sprouting about ridiculously high DPS numbers and claiming you must do XXXX K DPS to play.
Technically, you do need XXXXDPS to win in advanced and up due to the timers and optionals. That number isn't very high though and is easily achieved by all careers and appropriate tier ships.
That Dysons didn't sell well is no surprise to anyone. A gimmicky ship that doesn't work well in tac mode, has less science power than other science ships due to the BOFF seating, was critically bugged for months, was ugly as sin, and probably the worst of all, it suffered from an atrocious loadout in the mission supposed to showcase it which makes the mission grueling to actually play. There is just absolutely nothing redeemable about that mission's loadout. Who really wants to buy the ship after playing with it there?
Actually gecko said in a priority one podcast that the megabundle sales were so high it was directly the reason that they did the t6 9-ship megabundle. It was specifically the gorn science ships that lost them money on development time.
The reason there being they are I ferior to the free federation science ships stat wise.
But I'll see if I can find his exact words for you.
But what it boils down to is that if there is not a good market for science ships, especially for Rom/KDF, it is entirely Cryptic's fault for historically not creating one and catering to it. If they really want to sell a new science ship, they need to give it something non science ship players would want, like a good trait.
The last time we got a KDF or Romulan aligned Science Vessel, there were no starship traits. Only consoles. And I seem to remember that the Aceton Assimilator was somewhat popular in PvP for a while.
How many bought the Phantom chiefly for Reciprocity? The Dauntless trait on the other hand, does anyone even care about that trait? What if they sold a Rom/KDF science ship with Reciprocity as its trait? I bet it would sell.
Yeah, Reciprocity for KDF and Romulans would definitely sell.
I also think that if Science Vessels really sell poorly, they should make "free" ones - Event ships.
The quality of the ship is not that critical for the success of event ships.
People want event ships often just because they are event ships, and now with the new "grind it now or get it never"-policy in place, it becomes extra attractive. If the consoles are part of a set, even more so.
Bonus - they don't need to make a KDF or Romulan one. Just a single ship that can be used by all factions.
But maybe I am just bitter I didn't get my Yellow Science Vessel Submarine yet.
Of course, a faction-specific science vessel would be preferable to me.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
That Dysons didn't sell well is no surprise to anyone. A gimmicky ship that doesn't work well in tac mode, has less science power than other science ships due to the BOFF seating, was critically bugged for months, was ugly as sin, and probably the worst of all, it suffered from an atrocious loadout in the mission supposed to showcase it which makes the mission grueling to actually play. There is just absolutely nothing redeemable about that mission's loadout. Who really wants to buy the ship after playing with it there?
Actually gecko said in a priority one podcast that the megabundle sales were so high it was directly the reason that they did the t6 9-ship megabundle. It was specifically the gorn science ships that lost them money on development time.
The reason there being they are I ferior to the free federation science ships stat wise.
But I'll see if I can find his exact words for you.
If that is true, I'd be more then a little surprised that they would use ships from 2010 as an excuse to not make science ships now, especially given the fact they were all low tier stuff aside from the Varanus with that inferiority complex and a lack of cloak. Doubly so to hear the Dysons sold well at all. Using old data from an old scheme doesn't make sense now.
Also, as I recall, the consoles were restricted to only be useable on certain ships at the time, not at all like they are now.
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For Romulans, ALL their ships fall under the Warbird category because of their unique Singularity Core, but can have traits from any of the categories except Raider.
He did say that kdf might get another sci ship if they could clone a fed sci ship so the cost is minimized. My response to this is t6 Vesta megabundle of 9 ships pretty please! And/ or new t6 temporal science ships to go with the krenim box. ^.^
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> Per gecko it is not merely that kdf science ships don't sell, it is that they actually lost money on them.
>
> He did say that kdf might get another sci ship if they could clone a fed sci ship so the cost is minimized. My response to this is t6 Vesta megabundle of 9 ships pretty please! And/ or new t6 temporal science ships to go with the krenim box. ^.^
Vesta only for Fed ... that piece of art is not for maniacs and gorillas.
Funny you should say that...being Fed only ensures that ONLY maniacs and gorillas can use it!
In a game where we can kitbash like crazy? Doubtful. I'd love to see that "Romulan science vessel" in the regular Romulan ship lineup.
The rumor is they might fix the zero science T6 lockbox ships with the next lockbox (although I fear it will be yet another 4 science console ship), but knowing them, the lockbox will be filled with more DPS, more resistance, and more cooldown reduction things (and please, please, no more placate and confuse garbage) which no one really needs at this point. The trait on the Nandi is sort of a good science trait except for the drain resistance part which in reality doesn't do much in either PvP or PvE. The last science focused lockbox (except the ship in it since they decided to dump the ship into the Lobi store) was the Voth lockbox. Before that, the temporal lockbox was the last one to contain a good lockbox science ship in it.
It comes down to economics, and it seems they've given up on making a lockbox that mostly concentrates on science (Doffs, ships, traits, consoles) because "it won't sell".
How about the traits from those ship? In most cases they don't freaking compare.. not in the least.
Yes, Roms have the Scimitar.. great..woot woot! ... Everyone has Pilot ships, and coming is the new 5 fore battlecruisers. So that's a non-issue. What is a HUGE issue, is the lack of any Commander Sci slotted ship for KDF/Rom, isn't either gorn or dyson. We've begged for them to make them, and it's been how long now?
You want players to play more than just 5/3 tac gunboats, or 4/4 cruisers, you MUST give them equal options.
This can't be done via making a "sci" ship, and giving it some stupid consoles either. It has to compare, and NOT if you use 2/3 consoles to do it. Those consoles would be weighted vs Plasmonic Leech, Tactical Crit, Sci Plasma, etc.
That stated, having the ability to toggle the sensor scan, well.. it's the hallmark of the class. (no NOT the stupid gather intel TRIBBLE)
I'd also point out, that a lot of players are looking at what they are giving up, in terms of firepower.
5/3 w/ Dual Beams, packing 2x BF@W3 w/ 80% CrtD (before consoles, traits, etc) or 8x Beam Arrays, doing the same, is a lot to ask someone to give up, for a 3/3, that lacks the sheer upfront damage of those designs. They aren't faceroll ships. Science requires A LOT of setup, thought, and effort to squeeze a respectable amount of damage from in STF's.
I'm thinking that on top of giving us equal science to all factions, lets talk about a possible rework of science as a whole. Thus, making it more "shiny" so players will want to pilot them more, other than just to get the R5 ship trait, only to put the ship in mothballs afterwards.
Lastly, please please.. don't give us carriers, call them science ships, and call it a day. Yes, Roms would like a real carrier, and yes we'd all like to see some T6 carriers, but NOT that being the only ship you give us, or some ugly, crappy slow boat. Lt. Cmdr Science != science ship, btw.
I know what ship you're talking about. But it's not a faction ship either and the counts are still awful at T6. Even with that supposed Science Vessel, the total count would still be:
Total T6 Escorts: 14
Total T6 Cruisers: 15
Total T6 Science Vessels: 3 Fed (0 KDF, 0 Rom), 1 Cross Faction
Total T6 Carriers: 1 Cross Faction CV
Those numbers are horribly slanted. And the funny part is I haven't even tossed in those other Escorts and Cruisers the "source" has found.
They may as well should just delete the entire Science Captain class, entire selection of Science Skillboxes, entire array of Science Vessels. The Bias is strong in STO's development.
OH DEAR GOD NO!
Or maybe people have lost hope that asking for something on the forums will actually change anything. I myself have been asking for a Romulan T6 science vessel countless times.
Asking on the forums does indeed influence things only marginally. According to Salamiinferno (in some interview I guess) the roadmap which ships are released at what point stands for a year or longer in advance. Forum and Reddit (Reddit is more likely to be seen actually) may influence something post the one year mark, but in certain situations it is doubtful since they "know" science ships on KDF and RR won't sell and they will not risk that. It is as another poster said: If they can safely copy-pasta a fed sci ship then maybe, maybe. Otherwise cross-faction or bust.
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Count me in. I want to see more science ships and more science-oriented traits, abilities and specialization trees in the future.
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So how much does Cryptic pay you to wave their flag for them?
95% of the posts in the "T6 Battlecruiser" thread are players saying how ugly the Fed and KDF ships are. 4% are waving the old "power creep" flag due to the new Trait, and only about 1% have actually spoken about how they will fly.
This thread however is almost exclusively filled with player requesting the addition of a T6 KDF and Romulan Science ship (no matter WHAT it looks like) and how much they would love to fly one. Hmmm, I dunno, but it seems like there is a SERIOUS flaw in your reasoning.
Either that, or you MUST work for them, to continue to write the one sided, narrow visioned and obviously biased posts you do.
I am a science fan. I want more science vessels, for any faction, from lockboxes. I want more KDF ships. i want a KDF BOP and a KDF Carrier.
I still want my Yellow Science Vessel Submarine.
But if Cryptic determines that this will not generate sufficient return on investment, then all our wishful thinking and arguing without any data to back us is meaningless.
There, I fixed that for you.
Because all people care about is the pew pew...it's easier to circle around your target spamming FaW as opposed to actually having to use some skills with Science.
Maybe if they didn't make lousy ships....it's the bortasqu' effect...
They didn't even make a exclusive Romulan Sci ship...only c store one is the destroyer and people generally disliked it....has nothing to do with it being Romulan.
The only KDF Sci ship besides the destroyer was worse than the worst free Fed Sci ship...what do they expect? Another case of *Hey! Lets tank it so we don't have to make more!*
It doesn't help too much either that Cryptic is going by Fantasy MMO standards, where you have your Assassins/Spike DPS'ers in Escorts, Tanks/Sustained DPS'ers in Cruisers (though their aggro prioritization leaves much to be desired if trying to be a tank without enough firepower), and Root/Nuke Mages in Science Ships (where the majority of AoE abilities reside, but suffer from long CDs, which requires more build planning and testing) yet there's no real balance among them. Engineers especially suffer from a large portion of their skills sharing CDs, while even the defensive Science abilities have short duration abilities but long CDs as opposed to a Tac's short duration and short recharge abilities.
Now, personally I do have all my alts still and try to keep them relevant, but do I have a science ship alt on the KDF or Rom side? No. What would they even fly? I throw a grav well on a Scimitar, but that doesn't mean the captain flying it is remotely skilled or geared for a proper science ship. This is a problem because even if Cryptic makes a new shiney science ship for Rom/KDF, I'd have to build a new character for it or respec an old one.
That science ships have been historically nonexistent on red/green side only hurts their future, and that is entirely Cryptic's fault for not catering to that subset in the least.
That Dysons didn't sell well is no surprise to anyone. A gimmicky ship that doesn't work well in tac mode, has less science power than other science ships due to the BOFF seating, was critically bugged for months, was ugly as sin, and probably the worst of all, it suffered from an atrocious loadout in the mission supposed to showcase it which makes the mission grueling to actually play. There is just absolutely nothing redeemable about that mission's loadout. Who really wants to buy the ship after playing with it there?
But what it boils down to is that if there is not a good market for science ships, especially for Rom/KDF, it is entirely Cryptic's fault for historically not creating one and catering to it. If they really want to sell a new science ship, they need to give it something non science ship players would want, like a good trait.
How many bought the Phantom chiefly for Reciprocity? The Dauntless trait on the other hand, does anyone even care about that trait? What if they sold a Rom/KDF science ship with Reciprocity as its trait? I bet it would sell.
Like I said the Bortasqu' effect, 2 out of 3 of the traits on the T6 Sci ships come with are completely useless, 2 out of 3 really have bad boff slotting which makes them undesirable, and 2 out of 3 of them are truly ugly ships.
Build something like the Vesta and people get interested...
You make some partially correct points, namely in regards to it being somewhat Cryptic's fault we don't have more Sci ships, but ultimately you precipitate the same false ideology that STO is "DPS centric".
The game is not DPS centric, the players are, those who continue to sprout this rubbish. You can have huge DPS numbers hammering away on an NPC's 1million shields and +99% damage resists or you can remove the shields and resist buffs and destroy it's 100K hull. Which one requires, and therefore gives you higher DPS?
Which one is quicker, easier, and more effective either solo or in a party?
The players are the bigger problem in this game, due in no small part to people continuously sprouting about ridiculously high DPS numbers and claiming you must do XXXX K DPS to play.
Cryptic could help by actually "teaching" players about Debuff's and Exotic damage abilities, but they don't, the only "battle" tutorial in the game revolves around Tac abilities, and absolutely nowhere does it even partially explain what the various skills in the science tree do. (nor Engi for that matter, but most of those are self explanatory)
And you do NOT have to completely respec either, in fact 85% of the skills are pretty much standard for all toons, regardless of class, unless you are going for a very specific build which only a very knowledgeable player would likely try.
Technically, you do need XXXXDPS to win in advanced and up due to the timers and optionals. That number isn't very high though and is easily achieved by all careers and appropriate tier ships.
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The reason there being they are I ferior to the free federation science ships stat wise.
But I'll see if I can find his exact words for you.
Yeah, Reciprocity for KDF and Romulans would definitely sell.
I also think that if Science Vessels really sell poorly, they should make "free" ones - Event ships.
The quality of the ship is not that critical for the success of event ships.
People want event ships often just because they are event ships, and now with the new "grind it now or get it never"-policy in place, it becomes extra attractive. If the consoles are part of a set, even more so.
Bonus - they don't need to make a KDF or Romulan one. Just a single ship that can be used by all factions.
But maybe I am just bitter I didn't get my Yellow Science Vessel Submarine yet.
Of course, a faction-specific science vessel would be preferable to me.
If that is true, I'd be more then a little surprised that they would use ships from 2010 as an excuse to not make science ships now, especially given the fact they were all low tier stuff aside from the Varanus with that inferiority complex and a lack of cloak. Doubly so to hear the Dysons sold well at all. Using old data from an old scheme doesn't make sense now.
Also, as I recall, the consoles were restricted to only be useable on certain ships at the time, not at all like they are now.