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Battle OUTRAGEOUS Exchange prices with an accumulating Posting Fee

doubleohninedoubleohnine Member Posts: 816 Arc User
We all hate it. Gear priced so outrageously you assume the seller is using the exchange for storage and or insanely greedy.

What about a 1% of total lot price posting fee that charges 1% for every day item is on exchange, maxing out at 14 days before the item is returned to you?

Example, you post an item for $100,000. The posting fee is 1% for every 24 hours its on the exchange. If it sells in 1 minute, its 1%, if it sells in 23 hrs and 59 minutes, its 1%. You get 99,000 EC back on a 100G lot. But if you were greedy, and overpriced for the item, and it sat on the exchange for 14 days, the item is returned to you, and 14,000 deducted from your bank account. And the system would require you to put that $14,000 in as a deposit to make sure you were good for it up front. If you keep putting up the same item priced so bad it wont sell, it hurts the SELLER'S wallet for their greed.

Would this be a fair system for sellers and buyers to help make sure things are priced to sell? Instead of asking insane prices for low end gear? Can this be the cure for exchange inflation?
Post edited by doubleohnine on
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Comments

  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    We all hate it. Gear priced so outrageously you assume the seller is using the exchange for storage and or insanely greedy.

    this is a player ran economy, you can either get with it or not bother but i doubt you get many who would agree from the whale who want to sell like this and those who dont are taught to start saving money buy low sell high, corner the market... like a true ferengi would.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I smell a Socialist... :mad:
  • orion0029orion0029 Member Posts: 1,122 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2015
    I'm afraid this won't solve the problem, people will just post their stuff higher to offset the posting fee, or just eat the loss and post it anyway.

    There are other games that have features like this, I play some of them (and have briefly subscribed to them, which removed said fees), and I believe I can safely say that all that a 'posting fee' would do is hurt the 'little guy' by diminishing their profits and discouraging them from posting items that would bankrupt them just to post them at competitive prices.

    All we can do as buyers is not purchase the overpriced products, which would reduce demand and therefore reduce prices. Unfortunately since everyone who buys items from the exchange would have to be on board with this, it's unlikely to happen...

    Like mirrorchaos said, it's a player run economy, if someone is willing to pay the high prices then the high prices will stick around.
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2015
    Lets say for arguments sake they did do as the OP suggested. Where do these people think sellers will recuperate the additional charges from? Because I'll wager you anything you like the cost goes on top of the already "OUTRAGEOUS Exchange prices"

    It's a supply and demand market. Factor in the chances of getting something worthwhile from a lock box, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why certain times cost a small fortune.
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Entitlement issues abound. :rolleyes:
  • jarenriccarjarenriccar Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Nothing on the exchange is priced outrageously. Deleting people's Ec as a punishment for using the exchange is immoral.

    What does it matter if some idiot wants to list a hypo spray for 100 million ec or something?

    An overpriced item NEVER sells. By definition.

    never thought i'd agree with you Druk, but.......... I Agree with you Druk. lol
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  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2015
    sqwished wrote: »
    Lets say for arguments sake they did do as the OP suggested. Where do these people think sellers will recuperate the additional charges from? Because I'll wager you anything you like the cost goes on top of the already "OUTRAGEOUS Exchange prices"

    It's a supply and demand market. Factor in the chances of getting something worthwhile from a lock box, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why certain times cost a small fortune.

    Ding ding.

    We'd also see a lot more face to face trades, meaning anyone who doesn't know people or isn't in a trade channel gets severely burned by these increased prices - more than currently, actually.

    Don't like the prices? Well, don't buy it. Simple as that. That's how supply and demand works.
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  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    What is it that you consider overpriced ?

    A few notes.

    Using the exchange as storage is finite... as in you can only post 40 items ever.

    When they don't sell and get mailed to you... until you remove it from you mailbox you can't post a new item. (if you have 5 items returned to you you can only post 35 items until you claim the 5 from the mail)

    So this to me seems like a veiled way of complaining about the free market.

    I can tell you right now as a true Ferengi... right now I have ships listed for over 150mil, I have traits listed right up to the 50mil mark, been selling Kemos for 50 mil all week long.

    Guess what list stuff that doesn't drop like aux bats and it sells, like it might be perhaps rare.

    Making EC in this game is silly easy... so you don't really have any excuse.

    Yes stuff is priced in fact a bit cheaper thing it likely should be for the amount of Resources it takes get most of it (lockbox ships right now are way undervalued)... and those of us with the lobes are selling some items above the 500 mil mark in trade channels. I bet that doesn't sit well with the very hu-man op. lol ;)

    PS... just not buying and letting the price drop doesn't solve anything really... people just stop selling you the stuff you want. Some days I open 200-300 lockboxes in a day, turning my EC into more EC, if it ever gets to a point where there is no profit in that I simply stop. Meaning the ships and traits ect I post every day stop getting posted at all. Honestly there are likely 20 or so people in the game in total that are opening tons of boxes and keeping the exchange supplied. When the margins shink to much they stop opening boxes. As it is right now the handful of ecooncomy turning players spread it around trying to find the rarest/lowest supplied items on the exchange to pull out of boxes and post for profit. That tends to keep things with in reason in terms of price. I mean if it wasn't for people like me deciding to open say a few Temporal boxes here and there, the supply of things like Temporal sci ships on the exchange would be zero cause those boxes are a massvie gamble, as 90% of the pulls are a 100% loss.
  • twofatnutstwofatnuts Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think taxes are good idea for posting pricy items on auction if overpriced item wont sell in next 24 hours tax will be lost i think there should be like 1% tax for items with lower than 10 mil price and 10% for above 10mil.
    Too many items are just posted just for show.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Another factor to consider is that Cryptic doesn't care about EC.

    The only currencies they care about are Dilithium and Zen, because real $ is tied in there. Maybe Marks, since they can be used as a way to encourage people to log in daily/grind more.

    They gain nothing from EC, since you can't convert EC into Dil or Zen. You can convert Dil/Zen to EC by buying C-Store items and selling them, but that gives them what they want.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,567 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I've seen other games do things like this to "combat inflation" (i.e, try to keep the currency supply down, in an environment where currency can be infinitely created out of nothing. Unlike a real economy.)


    Of course, usually it's a % fee taken off successful sales, not a "how dare you post something that doesn't sell" penalty. /shrug


    ...was actually kind of surprised, when I started playing this game, that there wasn't some sort of auction house fee.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    All an Exchange tax will do is stop people from using the Exchange as free storage. It will have no affect on how much things charge. The economy is player-driven. If item X does not sell for Y price then the price gets lowered. If it does sell then that means it was not too expensive for the community - only too expensive for some members of the community.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    twofatnuts wrote: »
    I think taxes are good idea for posting pricy items on auction if overpriced item wont sell in next 24 hours tax will be lost i think there should be like 1% tax for items with lower than 10 mil price and 10% for above 10mil.
    Too many items are just posted just for show.

    List some examples of Posted for Show.
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    praxi5 wrote: »
    Another factor to consider is that Cryptic doesn't care about EC.

    The only currencies they care about are Dilithium and Zen, because real $ is tied in there. Maybe Marks, since they can be used as a way to encourage people to log in daily/grind more.

    They gain nothing from EC, since you can't convert EC into Dil or Zen. You can convert Dil/Zen to EC by buying C-Store items and selling them, but that gives them what they want.

    They do care very much about EC... it all flows in circles. They want new players to use EC to buy things like traits from lockboxes and such... cause many many players will spend $$$ to get things like Helmsman ect by buying and selling keys or promo packs ect.

    If people started giving away all the best lockbox drops... well people would no longer have any need to spend $. They want things to stay expensive enough to temp people like the op to spend 20 bucks on keys to convert to 50-70mil EC to buy what they want.
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    All an Exchange tax will do is stop people from using the Exchange as free storage. It will have no affect on how much things charge. The economy is player-driven. If item X does not sell for Y price then the price gets lowered. If it does sell then that means it was not too expensive for the community - only too expensive for some members of the community.

    Your right people buy expensive stuff all day long.

    The free storage thing doesn't fly anymore however. You have 40 exchange slots. That isn't exactly a lot of storage. People USED to do what you are saying by listing it letting it fail... and go to the mail box which they would use as storage. However long ago Cryptic tied the mail and exchange together... not letting you store more then 40 mails or exchange posts. You can have 20 things in both... or 30 and 10... but never more then 40 combined. (at one time some people had 1000s of mail posts with items saved)
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think the prices are fine to be honest. The most expensive things either took a great deal of luck or a great deal of time to acquire. And all of them needed significant investment to begin with.

    Besides if you can't afford the prices for max level top end gear just scale expectations back a bit. Drop a few levels below the level cap or the rarity (or even both) and the price plummets. It's not like you need the very best gear to perform.
  • bones1970bones1970 Member Posts: 953 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    twofatnuts wrote: »
    I think taxes are good idea for posting pricy items on auction if overpriced item wont sell in next 24 hours tax will be lost i think there should be like 1% tax for items with lower than 10 mil price and 10% for above 10mil.
    Too many items are just posted just for show.

    Then all good stuff will disappear from exchange and can only be found on the trading channels.
    And then specially for you if you come there you can pay the extra fee if you want anything (only you).
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You being jealous of other people for having more money than you doesn't count as a problem the devs need to solve. :cool:
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    bones1970 wrote: »
    Then all good stuff will disappear from exchange and can only be found on the trading channels.
    And then specially for you if you come there you can pay the extra fee if you want anything (only you).

    This here is the biggest problem with listing fees. The most expensive, rare things stay expensive and get even more rare because people no longer post them on the exchange to avoid the list fees. They still sell them but if anything the prices go up because the supply of the item is diminished due to having to manually sell things over chat channels.

    This is precisely what happened when Champions put in their listing fee. Within a week, every rare costume item was gone from the market. You can't find that stuff without shouting in zone chat now. It is terrible for the buyer to have listing fees.
  • doubleohninedoubleohnine Member Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Im a capitalist, unless its video games for fun. Lockbox items I can understand, but mk VIII gear and lower, it just annoys me to see outrageous prices for a blue or green item when said item will be ranked beyond its effectiveness in no time. Those prices are ridiculous and should be punished IMO. Yeah I can not by it, but I feel stupid items like that just add to the exchange lag and should be controlled better. Free market for XII and up, but lower, if we cant have a posting fee, cap the max exchange price.
    STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
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  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,567 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Im a capitalist, unless its video games for fun. Lockbox items I can understand, but mk VIII gear and lower, it just annoys me to see outrageous prices for a blue or green item when said item will be ranked beyond its effectiveness in no time. Those prices are ridiculous and should be punished IMO. Yeah I can not by it, but I feel stupid items like that just add to the exchange lag and should be controlled better. Free market for XII and up, but lower, if we cant have a posting fee, cap the max exchange price.


    ...

    Now that we have the upgrade system, people aren't selling low rank weapons for low rank use. They're selling them for the collection of mods they have. There is no more "ranked beyond it's effectiveness", if a weapon is decent enough.

    Does this suck for low-level/new players who are just looking for some beams to stick on their ship? Yep. But that's not who those weapons are being sold to/for, unfortunately. (This makes me remember how hilariously overpriced the WoW market for level 19 gear was, back in the days of people making super-tweaked pvp characters for the lv10-19 bracket.)
  • nesomumi2nesomumi2 Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    We all hate it. Gear priced so outrageously you assume the seller is using the exchange for storage and or insanely greedy.

    What about a 1% of total lot price posting fee that charges 1% for every day item is on exchange, maxing out at 14 days before the item is returned to you?

    Example, you post an item for $100,000. The posting fee is 1% for every 24 hours its on the exchange. If it sells in 1 minute, its 1%, if it sells in 23 hrs and 59 minutes, its 1%. You get 99,000 EC back on a 100G lot. But if you were greedy, and overpriced for the item, and it sat on the exchange for 14 days, the item is returned to you, and 14,000 deducted from your bank account. And the system would require you to put that $14,000 in as a deposit to make sure you were good for it up front. If you keep putting up the same item priced so bad it wont sell, it hurts the SELLER'S wallet for their greed.

    Would this be a fair system for sellers and buyers to help make sure things are priced to sell? Instead of asking insane prices for low end gear? Can this be the cure for exchange inflation?

    you don't like the price, make it your self.
    it seams that you are delusional about how you get things, and that things are cheap to make, and effortless to get.
    if it is so, then hey, by all means, you do it. i dont pay for nothing.
    if you don't wont to do things above, then you will pay.
    i didn't grind R&D lvl's 20 for 6 mounts so you could buy things for a million.
    for a million you can craft it your self.
  • nesomumi2nesomumi2 Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    kiralyn wrote: »
    ...

    Now that we have the upgrade system, people aren't selling low rank weapons for low rank use. They're selling them for the collection of mods they have. There is no more "ranked beyond it's effectiveness", if a weapon is decent enough.

    Does this suck for low-level/new players who are just looking for some beams to stick on their ship? Yep. But that's not who those weapons are being sold to/for, unfortunately. (This makes me remember how hilariously overpriced the WoW market for level 19 gear was, back in the days of people making super-tweaked pvp characters for the lv10-19 bracket.)

    price of low level weapons are ridiculous this days. you can buy crth-crtd-rapid for a 2k EC, do you really need crtdx3 on lvl 3? do you need crtdx3 on lvl 40? no you dont. and you can upgrade your gear as you go along. so in essence things are compered to time before very cheap. you just evidently don't understand this game (talking to OP.)
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The market regulates itself.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Im a capitalist, unless its video games for fun. Lockbox items I can understand, but mk VIII gear and lower, it just annoys me to see outrageous prices for a blue or green item when said item will be ranked beyond its effectiveness in no time. Those prices are ridiculous and should be punished IMO. Yeah I can not by it, but I feel stupid items like that just add to the exchange lag and should be controlled better. Free market for XII and up, but lower, if we cant have a posting fee, cap the max exchange price.

    "Punished" eh? So someone posts some items at a price you don't agree with, and you feel that those people must be punished? In a game, merely for trying to sell an item?

    I know of some of the huge prices you speak of, but going around and punishing everyone merely due to them participating in a free market is even worse IMO.

    'Taxes' are not what the exchange needs. More 'control' is not what the exchange needs. It's a free market, pure and simple. And it doesn't need other kinds of 'max prices' for stuff. Besides, who would decide that? What would be considered a 'fair' max price? Even then, it wouldn't mean squat, people would simply sell stuff off the exchange.



    Now I'm not against EC sinks, but trying to 'tax' people by using the exchange is not a way to do it.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Im a capitalist, unless its video games for fun. Lockbox items I can understand, but mk VIII gear and lower, it just annoys me to see outrageous prices for a blue or green item when said item will be ranked beyond its effectiveness in no time. Those prices are ridiculous and should be punished IMO. Yeah I can not by it, but I feel stupid items like that just add to the exchange lag and should be controlled better. Free market for XII and up, but lower, if we cant have a posting fee, cap the max exchange price.

    If someone is willing to waste there 40 sales slots why do you care ? Don't buy it if you don't want it.

    Some people realize that there is a market selling lower level gear cause no one else does. So your options are see the stuff you consider over priced and ignore it... or see nothing at all.

    Also perhaps there is value in things, that you simply don't understand.

    For instance... there is a very good reason MK II weapons with the right mods are worth more then end game weapons with junk mods. If you don't understand why there priced the way they are perhaps you are simply missing some bit of knowledge.

    In the case of MK II... if I want to craft 200 MK 2s... so I can pull 3 or 4 with CrtDx3 and sell them for 5 mil each... how does that effect you. Cause people pay that for specific low level items every day.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    nesomumi2 wrote: »
    price of low level weapons are ridiculous this days. you can buy crth-crtd-rapid for a 2k EC, do you really need crtdx3 on lvl 3? do you need crtdx3 on lvl 40? no you dont. and you can upgrade your gear as you go along. so in essence things are compered to time before very cheap. you just evidently don't understand this game (talking to OP.)

    That is cause you can upgrade them. I have done several items like this and got very nice gear. At times cheaper than buying it outright off the exchange. However with me doing crafting, I just make mine and then upgrade.
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