Well I can see this either being moved to Ten Forward because of the topics that it brings of closed because of flaming that will start. I wish people would live and let live. While I agree with the OP that the stero typical human TRIBBLE personalities would not completely cross over to another race. Specially one where the woman initiates mating with biting of the face. I just don't think this is appropriate material for a game that can have younger teens playing. Some parents might not what to have to explain this to there children.
Actually young teens knowing is a very good thing. LGBT is not an adult only thing, its an everybody thing. As in everybody should know about diversity and equality. I think it would be hard in this age to find a teen that doesn't know about that side of life.
I hope some of you people don't play GW2. There are a few same sex couple NPCs in that game. Most notably Kasmeer and Marjory. Of course their pixels are a lot nicer than a 1-eyed Klingon and her ridged mate. :P
Actually young teens knowing is a very good thing. LGBT is not an adult only thing, its an everybody thing. As in everybody should know about diversity and equality. I think it would be hard in this age to find a teen that doesn't know about that side of life.
On the internet, I come across many teenagers who are greatly interested in my status as a homosexual. 4chan for instance.
it seems its always about complaining. if games only cater heteronormative, you complain, then they make hs-couples, you complain as well, because its not the way "you want them to be shown". so wtf? i mean most couples on tv dont fit the real world. i didnt see anyone having a cinderella live, or kissing frogs or wtf.
Back in the 60s, during a very tense time in the civil rights movement, Charles Shultz introduced Franklin to the comic strip Peanuts.
He was prompted to do so by a black woman who wrote him and asked why there were no black people in the strip. She felt it would be nice to portray white children and black children getting along and being kind to each other.
He had replied that he wanted to include black people, but he he was worried that it would come across as insulting to his black readers. This woman went on to collect letters from some of her friends, explaining that it wouldn't if he was treated the same as anyone else.
Of course, there were people who did not like the inclusion of a black character in Peanuts. There were some people who still to this day argue that Franklin got none of the psychological quirks that the other characters have, making him a token because he's allowed to play the straight man to the others.
But the thing is, Shultz was happy with how it turned out, as were most of his readers. He realized that you can't please everyone all the time. If you choose to depict people like this, some people on both sides will always disagree with how you do it, on the whole, it's still better than not doing it at all.
Nobody's perfect, and there's no such thing as a perfect representation of anyone's identity in media, but a sincere if imperfect representation is better than exclusion.
Actually young teens knowing is a very good thing. LGBT is not an adult only thing, its an everybody thing. As in everybody should know about diversity and equality. I think it would be hard in this age to find a teen that doesn't know about that side of life.
While I understand where you are coming from, This is not acceptable actions to some parents. It should be them sitting them down and teaching them about life, equality, and diversity. Not that of a video game.
I was actually thinking about this earlier and since it seems there is some actual interest in canon here I'll share.
My take on Klingons and homosexuality is that it probably isn't going to fly in the big houses. You will have a duty there to marry opposite gender and produce an heir. Just as we might have seen in royal families in Europe when they were still important. Of course we generally tend to see the important Klingons on the shows. And what they might do on the side is not shown.
As for the common klingons and what goes on on warships with a cask of blood wine. Well...
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Equality, acceptance and emancipation are reached when people don't pay specific attention to someone's sexual preference.
And that's what happened in this episode IMO. They didn't pay too much attention to it. The Klingon that explained the mission just said something about one female Klingon and her 'mate'.
I haven't played the episode yet, but if what you are saying is correct, then maybe they aren't lovers at all. Maybe they are just Australian :P
the Klingons on STO are hardly in character and are a bizarre caricature and if Star Trek had Planets of Hats, STO makes Klingons a Planet of Cloned Hats, the only ones I can recognize as individuals are Worf and Clone Kahless, everyone else is a clone of a master mold, they look the same and they sound the same, be male or female.
This is actually a good example of how there's no perfect representation of any identity in media. Nobody can agree on what makes a decent Klingon in this game.
The last mission had a Klingon who liked big explosions and fighting to the death, and people complained "UGH KLINGON SMASH could they make Klingons look any dumber and more stereotypical?"
This month, they're trying to show Klingons with relationships and values that are different from the stereotypes, and people are like "WHY DID WE RUN AWAY IN THE FACE OF A GOD AND HIS ENDLESS ARMY OF HEAVILY ARMED SLAVERING FANATICS WHO CAN VIOLATE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AT A WHIM?! WE SHOULD HAVE KILLED THEM ALL AND BLOWN UP THE ICONIAN AND MAYBE THE ENTIRE PLANET!"
If you can't portray Klingons without making someone mad, imagine how hard it is to create a TRIBBLE character that makes everyone happy.
While I understand where you are coming from, This is not acceptable actions to some parents. It should be them sitting them down and teaching them about life, equality, and diversity. Not that of a video game.
Shouldn't it be the schools? I mean, from the scientific and sex ed standpoint, though some classes that are still required to teach a bit about Romans and Greeks also dip a little into that as well, in order to understand some of the epics.
What is your point? that we would not care if they were "hot lesbians"? this isnt the issue as it being completely unnecessary and out of character but then again, the Klingons on STO are hardly in character and are a bizarre caricature and if Star Trek had Planets of Hats, STO makes Klingons a Planet of Cloned Hats, the only ones I can recognize as individuals are Worf and Clone Kahless, everyone else is a clone of a master mold, they look the same and they sound the same, be male or female.
It was a sarcastic remark on my end with no actual point to be made, though several responses to the idea in general have proved that they didn't like the stereotyped "butch and lipstick wearer" designs of the NPCs, so looks do matter.
But if we had to make a random point, no one would complain if they really were a Trill couple deciding to live it out together against the "taboo" (if it hasn't already been repealed by this point). Of course, that would have led to an entirely different discussion over the "oppression" that the Trill "taboo" has and whether or not Cryptic could have it mentioned as been repealed in-game (given that the game is loose canon and subject to be repealed at CBS' whim).
As to whether or not they're unnecessary, probably, from a conservative Klingon standpoint (since as you said, some Klingons are mere caricatures), and probably not, from a militaristic society point of view (all the mentions of such in old warrior society history that the Klingons were modeled after). I'm not going to judge; but the execution could have been better (a few hints or straight up mentions in earlier FEs or missions, or even the Tales of the War blog).
Again, if it was a pair of rebel Trills, no one would have complained (or complained as much).
I'm not going to judge; but the execution could have been better (a few hints or straight up mentions in earlier FEs or missions, or even the Tales of the War blog).
One of them is in the Klingon version of "Spin the Wheel" and does kinda bring it up, AFAIK.
I was actually thinking about this earlier and since it seems there is some actual interest in canon here I'll share.
My take on Klingons and homosexuality is that it probably isn't going to fly in the big houses. You will have a duty there to marry opposite gender and produce an heir. Just as we might have seen in royal families in Europe when they were still important. Of course we generally tend to see the important Klingons on the shows. And what they might do on the side is not shown.
As for the common klingons and what goes on on warships with a cask of blood wine. Well...
This is actually what I was referring to when it comes to the Klingon culture. I can see TRIBBLE much more prevalent and acceptable with Orions than Klingons, but that is not to say it does not exist nor is it less or not acceptable among the Klingon culture. A little more of a background story would have been nice to know the relationship between the two female Klingons.
One of them is in the Klingon version of "Spin the Wheel" and does kinda bring it up, AFAIK.
If it's true, then it's nice that an otherwise throwaway statement ended up having some relevance. Of course, it could stand to have a few other hints (or straight-up statements) sprinkled when reasonable in other missions that might involve either of them.
This is actually a good example of how there's no perfect representation of any identity in media. Nobody can agree on what makes a decent Klingon in this game.
The last mission had a Klingon who liked big explosions and fighting to the death, and people complained "UGH KLINGON SMASH could they make Klingons look any dumber and more stereotypical?"
This month, they're trying to show Klingons with relationships and values that are different from the stereotypes, and people are like "WHY DID WE RUN AWAY IN THE FACE OF A GOD AND HIS ENDLESS ARMY OF HEAVILY ARMED SLAVERING FANATICS WHO CAN VIOLATE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AT A WHIM?! WE SHOULD HAVE KILLED THEM ALL AND BLOWN UP THE ICONIAN AND MAYBE THE ENTIRE PLANET!"
If you can't portray Klingons without making someone mad, imagine how hard it is to create a TRIBBLE character that makes everyone happy.
It's great that we are seeing more variation in the spectrum of being Klingon. I believe that each of the species can have very in-depth characters as there are Federation characters. My issues, if you can say I have one, is that if you are introducing something new, please provide some additional background and setting so that it doesn't just stand out like a "sore thumb", but rather it flows fluid and in harmony with the story of the episode presented.
It also occurs to me that the last Tales From the War makes it clear that House Pegh is quite happy to recruit outsiders and misfits who don't quite fit into the Empire as a whole, or the stereotypes about warriors in general.
So, if you absolutely cannot wrap your mind around the idea of TRIBBLE Klingons being accepted, then you could headcanon it that House Pegh is an exception to the rule.
Shouldn't it be the schools? I mean, from the scientific and sex ed standpoint, though some classes that are still required to teach a bit about Romans and Greeks also dip a little into that as well, in order to understand some of the epics.
No because we have removed the ability of schools to teach right from wrong. When schools can't discipline students, tell them they are wrong, or get bulling under control because of policies that that have been passed in years passed we have handy capped their ability to teach. So it is up to the parents to teach liberties, morals, diversity, and straight out good citizenship to there kids while there kids brains are still developing, which is way before school begins. The most important time during kids development is the first 6 years of age, Most kids enter Kindergarten or 1st grade. Concepts need to be introduces early like manners.
The most revolutionary thing that could be done with these two characters would be to casually introduce them and then treat them like their relationship is no big deal. And that's what the developers did. I wouldn't change a thing.
The most revolutionary thing that could be done with these two characters would be to casually introduce them and then treat them like their relationship is no big deal. And that's what the developers did. I wouldn't change a thing.
Would this be the first relationship STO has introduced? Can someone point to another? I have been trying to think of one and cannot! I can be missing it.
Would this be the first relationship STO has introduced? Can someone point to another? I have been trying to think of one and cannot! I can be missing it.
Miral and her ex, recently. There are probably a few more hinted at here and there.
And as I pointed out earlier, there's definitely a lot of sex hinted at in this game.
Comments
Actually young teens knowing is a very good thing. LGBT is not an adult only thing, its an everybody thing. As in everybody should know about diversity and equality. I think it would be hard in this age to find a teen that doesn't know about that side of life.
I hope some of you people don't play GW2. There are a few same sex couple NPCs in that game. Most notably Kasmeer and Marjory. Of course their pixels are a lot nicer than a 1-eyed Klingon and her ridged mate. :P
On the internet, I come across many teenagers who are greatly interested in my status as a homosexual. 4chan for instance.
Back in the 60s, during a very tense time in the civil rights movement, Charles Shultz introduced Franklin to the comic strip Peanuts.
He was prompted to do so by a black woman who wrote him and asked why there were no black people in the strip. She felt it would be nice to portray white children and black children getting along and being kind to each other.
He had replied that he wanted to include black people, but he he was worried that it would come across as insulting to his black readers. This woman went on to collect letters from some of her friends, explaining that it wouldn't if he was treated the same as anyone else.
Of course, there were people who did not like the inclusion of a black character in Peanuts. There were some people who still to this day argue that Franklin got none of the psychological quirks that the other characters have, making him a token because he's allowed to play the straight man to the others.
But the thing is, Shultz was happy with how it turned out, as were most of his readers. He realized that you can't please everyone all the time. If you choose to depict people like this, some people on both sides will always disagree with how you do it, on the whole, it's still better than not doing it at all.
Nobody's perfect, and there's no such thing as a perfect representation of anyone's identity in media, but a sincere if imperfect representation is better than exclusion.
While I understand where you are coming from, This is not acceptable actions to some parents. It should be them sitting them down and teaching them about life, equality, and diversity. Not that of a video game.
My take on Klingons and homosexuality is that it probably isn't going to fly in the big houses. You will have a duty there to marry opposite gender and produce an heir. Just as we might have seen in royal families in Europe when they were still important. Of course we generally tend to see the important Klingons on the shows. And what they might do on the side is not shown.
As for the common klingons and what goes on on warships with a cask of blood wine. Well...
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I haven't played the episode yet, but if what you are saying is correct, then maybe they aren't lovers at all. Maybe they are just Australian :P
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
This is actually a good example of how there's no perfect representation of any identity in media. Nobody can agree on what makes a decent Klingon in this game.
The last mission had a Klingon who liked big explosions and fighting to the death, and people complained "UGH KLINGON SMASH could they make Klingons look any dumber and more stereotypical?"
This month, they're trying to show Klingons with relationships and values that are different from the stereotypes, and people are like "WHY DID WE RUN AWAY IN THE FACE OF A GOD AND HIS ENDLESS ARMY OF HEAVILY ARMED SLAVERING FANATICS WHO CAN VIOLATE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AT A WHIM?! WE SHOULD HAVE KILLED THEM ALL AND BLOWN UP THE ICONIAN AND MAYBE THE ENTIRE PLANET!"
If you can't portray Klingons without making someone mad, imagine how hard it is to create a TRIBBLE character that makes everyone happy.
It was a sarcastic remark on my end with no actual point to be made, though several responses to the idea in general have proved that they didn't like the stereotyped "butch and lipstick wearer" designs of the NPCs, so looks do matter.
But if we had to make a random point, no one would complain if they really were a Trill couple deciding to live it out together against the "taboo" (if it hasn't already been repealed by this point). Of course, that would have led to an entirely different discussion over the "oppression" that the Trill "taboo" has and whether or not Cryptic could have it mentioned as been repealed in-game (given that the game is loose canon and subject to be repealed at CBS' whim).
As to whether or not they're unnecessary, probably, from a conservative Klingon standpoint (since as you said, some Klingons are mere caricatures), and probably not, from a militaristic society point of view (all the mentions of such in old warrior society history that the Klingons were modeled after). I'm not going to judge; but the execution could have been better (a few hints or straight up mentions in earlier FEs or missions, or even the Tales of the War blog).
Again, if it was a pair of rebel Trills, no one would have complained (or complained as much).
One of them is in the Klingon version of "Spin the Wheel" and does kinda bring it up, AFAIK.
This is actually what I was referring to when it comes to the Klingon culture. I can see TRIBBLE much more prevalent and acceptable with Orions than Klingons, but that is not to say it does not exist nor is it less or not acceptable among the Klingon culture. A little more of a background story would have been nice to know the relationship between the two female Klingons.
It's great that we are seeing more variation in the spectrum of being Klingon. I believe that each of the species can have very in-depth characters as there are Federation characters. My issues, if you can say I have one, is that if you are introducing something new, please provide some additional background and setting so that it doesn't just stand out like a "sore thumb", but rather it flows fluid and in harmony with the story of the episode presented.
So, if you absolutely cannot wrap your mind around the idea of TRIBBLE Klingons being accepted, then you could headcanon it that House Pegh is an exception to the rule.
No because we have removed the ability of schools to teach right from wrong. When schools can't discipline students, tell them they are wrong, or get bulling under control because of policies that that have been passed in years passed we have handy capped their ability to teach. So it is up to the parents to teach liberties, morals, diversity, and straight out good citizenship to there kids while there kids brains are still developing, which is way before school begins. The most important time during kids development is the first 6 years of age, Most kids enter Kindergarten or 1st grade. Concepts need to be introduces early like manners.
Would this be the first relationship STO has introduced? Can someone point to another? I have been trying to think of one and cannot! I can be missing it.
Miral and her ex, recently. There are probably a few more hinted at here and there.
And as I pointed out earlier, there's definitely a lot of sex hinted at in this game.
Thanks I forgot about that one.
It's mentioned twice in the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition!
Rule 112: Never have sex with the boss's sister.
Rule 113: ALWAYS have sex with the boss!
Note, that the Ferengi Rules of Acqusition never mention what gender (or gender identity) the boss has to be.
I have to argue with this! If these are real rules from the Rules of Acquisition, this was written when only males were supposed to conduct business.
So the worker would be male. And probably the boss, too?
This still supports same-sex relationships. Apparently male-on-male oomox has been known to escalate?
Women on Feranginar were not allowed to collect wealth. So my interpretation is they are both male.
Cannot argue with that!
I made the mistake of trying it on a previous now closed thread. So I think I'll join you this time around.
*pop pop pop pop* *ding!*
Let's rock and roll! :cool: