For one there is the lore/roleplaying aspect of it. That's why they would have cloaks. If your moving a cloaked fleet the last thing you want is to have your carrier not cloaking with the rest of the fleet giving its positions away.
Them not having a carrier is in fact taking away from established cannon. The Romulans are the only Faction other then the Federation (ds9 ep. Sacrifice of Angels) that has shown fighters being used in the shows/movies. Did you forget Star Trek: Nemesis? It clearly showed Romulan fighters in a hangers on a Romulan starship.
So out side of "it wouldn't be that effective in game" opinion there is really no argument against a Romulan cloaking carrier.
I can see the potential benefit of cloaking a fleet for a lenghty journey through enemy territory, which would only require a basic cloak, not necessarily a battle cloak.
I do remember Nemesis, and If I'm not mistaken those were Reman fighters not Romulan, they were in fact on the Scimitar, a Reman ship. The Scimitar class only became Romulan in STO since Remans are a playable race for the Republic.
Worth noting, aside from the Reman Warbird Scimitar, there were no Romulan ships in canon, shows or movies that carried fighters, Romulans being the kind to manipulate behind the scenes instead of openly attack targets with the brute force of a carrier.
As for the benefits of a cloak. Yes it is a benefit for combat ships, a carrier is generally a support ship, so a cloak (while still useful) would be of less benefit. This isn't opinion, as the bonus damage from decloaking wouldn't be nearly as great on a ship with few tac abilities/consoles, lesser weapon power, number of weapons, etc...
However, if the proposed Romulan carrier *must* have a cloak, I suppose I can cease expressing my opinions of 'cloaking carriers', and just endeavor to keep the whole idea 'balanced'. Despite the fact that nearly all Klingon designed ships have cloaks, and the Vo'Quv does not, and neither does any other 2-hangar carrier in STO (the only exception being the Kar'Fi with its nearly useless 'phase shift' console).
orion, I think it's high time I took your sig. into account and *shudder* made a compromise. I'm not happy with it, and I doubt RR-mains are going to be happy about it either...
Proposal: A STANDARD CLOAKING DEVICE for the Romulan Carrier, simply because of the massive energy signature - coupled with the singularity core - that it would have as a consequence of carrying fighters. This would give the Romulans their precious cloaking device, whilst still keeping the three ships unique to their respective factions.
It should be noted that there is a DOff from the Elachi lock box that increases Auxiliary power while cloaked (I have no recollection of the name, but my level 50 Rom Sci has one for her Scimitar).
I've updated the OP to reflect these changes, and I hope to God that this entire fracas stops for the time being.
I felt like taking this opportunity to post some head-canon/lore about the carriers and their payload of fighters, so here goes nothing...
Merlin Strike Fighter
Designed in response to the Herald threat, and to supplement Starfleet's ageing squadrons of Peregrine Attack Fighters, the Merlin Strike Fighter has been designed with high-speed hit-and-run tactics in mind.
Despite being two-thirds the size of a Peregrine, the vessel is a testament to how far Starfleet has come since the Dominion War - it is more heavily armed, and boasts an optional, defensive payload of countermeasure systems. Borrowing technology from the Romulan Republic, the fighter is also capable of vanishing in the heat of battle when countermeasure probes are ineffective - thanks to it's battle cloaking device.
The emphasis truly is on high-speed and stealth, seen by the smaller and sleeker spaceframe as well as the concealed impulse exhausts. These two specific improvements combine to make the Merlin an effective multi-role fighter capable of attack runs, reconnaissance missions, and even courier escort.
Independence-class Fleet Carrier
Using a borrowed KDF Vo'quv spaceframe, the Independence-class makes use of lessons learned during Starfleet's tenure with loaned Atrox carriers. As a result, it is the first carrier vessel with a dedicated hangar and flight deck designed by the Starfleet Corps of Engineers and borrows design elements from the Vesta- and Odyssey-class vessels.
It is also the first ship to carry a dedicated wing of Starfleet's new Merlin-type strike fighters, and can be modified with very little effort to carry other small craft such as Danube- and Yellowstone-class runabouts.
qajunpaQ Strike Fighter
Using the Orion Syndicate's slaver and interceptor ships as base, the engineering teams at the Ty'Gokor Shipyards modified a battered Duj'hod Chariot to mimic the strike capability of Starfleet's Merlin fighter. Those same engineers then decided that the new craft should also have a new name, and despite several names being brought forward none seemed to be suitable.
The vessel was kept in storage until a suitable name was found, which came from a briefing by Captain Kadgar. The full name of SuvwI' qajunpaQ was chosen, meaning warrior's courage. This was eventually shortened to simply "qajunpaQ" a few weeks later.
The Ty'Gokor engineers also managed to reduce the size of the cloaking device used on their newer Birds-of-Prey, affording the newly-christened fighter the same capabilities as it's counterpart in Starfleet.
Batlh'Quv Fleet Carrier
Not content with continuing their use of the Vo'quv carrier while Utopia Planetia gave Starfleet the Independence Fleet Carriers, the Klingon High Council tasked the designers and engineers at Ty'Gokor Shipyards to create a stronger, more powerful carrier vessel. This ship was to retain all the capabilities of the Vo'quv and yet also be a ship in it's own right.
Enter the Batlh'Quv-class Carrier. Larger than it's predecessor the Vo'quv, the Bath'Quv made use of a captured Hirogen Apex battlecrusier which had been stripped of all weapons and equipment. The battlecruiser was declared unusable, and thus destined for target practice until the engineers saw it as a design that they could use.
Gyrfalcon Strike Drone
Seeing a need to supplement the Alliance's efforts in carrier and fighter craft construction, the teams at New Romulus Shipyards came to the conclusion that although the Scorpion fighters used aboard their Scimitar-line warbirds were effective, the numbers needed somewhat bolstering. They had several ideas in mind; but like the Klingons, the Romulan engineers wanted to emulate and better the technology seen in Starfleet's Merlins.
Drawing on the experience from the drones used aboard the Lleiset and other dreadnought warbirds, the same engineers then applied the drone fighter concept to the Gyrfalcon - affording internal space for flight testing and possible evacuation whilst maintaining a Romulan element.
Rokhelh-class Carrier Warbird
Based on a Ha'apax warbird spaceframe, Republic engineers were given the opportunity to test out the effectiveness of carrier vessels using a Romulan design. Simulation after simulation proved to be fruitless, as all proposed vessels were found to have catastrophic design flaws. The Republic Shipyards were then presented with an opportunity when a nearly-destroyed Ha'akona warbird in Ha'apax configuration - the R.R.W. Rokhelh - came in for repairs.
Despite repairing the damage to the outer hull, the vessel ended up needing the Dual Vector separation capability removed due to damage to the working parts. Subsequently, the engineering crews of both the warbird and the Republic shipyards made the decision to enlarge shuttle bays and amalgamate them with the Ha'feh section cargo areas and shuttle bays - creating the Romulan Republic's first carrier.
May as well just keep the cloak if it isn't battle cloak....the smallest Fighter to the massive Scimitar has battle cloak...to be without it just isn't Romulan...and yet they're suffering penalties like they have it.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
May as well just keep the cloak if it isn't battle cloak....the smallest Fighter to the massive Scimitar has battle cloak...to be without it just isn't Romulan...and yet they're suffering penalties like they have it.
Because like it or not, these ships don't have a battle cloak and are yet, surprise surprise, still Romulan!
I said above fighter and the temporal ships don't count because they're just clones of the Fed version...they're lock box ships, they don't even have a Singularity core.
Like I've said before...from the Scorpion Fighter all the way to the massive Scimitar...they all have battle cloak.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
They don't count, and yet the shuttles have a singularity core and powers..I'm honestly struggling to see your logic at this point. Just because it isn't sporting a battle cloak it does not mean it is not Romulan - these ships just don't support the hit-and-run playstyle you're used to*!
*Why else would you be asking for a Carrier - not known for their agility, even in the modern world - that has a battle cloak?
They don't count, and yet the shuttles have a singularity core and powers..I'm honestly struggling to see your logic at this point. Just because it isn't sporting a battle cloak it does not mean it is not Romulan - these ships just don't support the hit-and-run playstyle you're used to*!
*Why else would you be asking for a Carrier - not known for their agility, even in the modern world - that has a battle cloak?
Show me one Romulan ship Fighter or above that doesn't have battle cloak...and like I said the Temporal ships don't count because they're carbon copies of the Fed one with a different skin.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Lately the discussion of 'carrier cloak' has gotten a bit out of hand (opinion), and I believe I know the root cause of this, it comes down to the various 'rules' that Cryptic uses to design ships, two of which are most relevant to the discussion of a Romulan Carrier:
#1: ALL Romulan ships (with few minor exceptions) have battle cloaks.
#2: NO 'Full Carrier' (2 hangars) have cloaks.
I'm just guessing here, but I'd bet that the above 'rules' are the reasons that Cryptic hasn't made a Romulan carrier, because it couldn't be made without a battle cloak and at the same time can't be made with one. The only solution left is NOT to make one.
We've been butting heads over this for days with no real progress made on the topic or even an acceptable compromise...
We've also forgotten that a Carrier is most out of character for Romulans, being the kind to manipulate opponents or lure them into traps with guile and subterfuge.
So I propose we scrap the whole Idea of a Romulan Carrier...:eek:
And make it a Reman Carrier, the Remans are also members of the Republic, and are exactly the kind of people to send wave after wave of fighters at a target without regards for losses.
This would allow the Republic to have a carrier that can stand up as well as a KDF or Fed version (comperable hull/shield modifiers), without the need for it to have a cloak since it would not be Romulan.
I am aware that *most* Reman Tech is inherited from the Romulans, but I think we can all agree that it Remans are generally more direct with their battle strategies and don't tend to be the "cloak and dagger" types, most of the time.
I realize this may not be the ideal compromise to the problem, but it's the best I can think of to give the Republic a Carrier without breaking the above rules. There is also precedent for my proposed compromise as Cryptic decided to design a Caitian carrier for the Feds as opposed to a Starfleet one...
Show me one Romulan ship Fighter or above that doesn't have battle cloak...and like I said the Temporal ships don't count because they're carbon copies of the Fed one with a different skin.
Yes, they are are still ships that are used by the ROMULAN faction. I gave you examples of ROMULAN SHIPS without a battle cloak, and you continue to deny the simple fact that they are still Romulan ships because they don't employ the hit-and-run playstyle that comes with a battle cloak.
You're right with the lack of SHIPS having no battle cloak, however I don't see where the shuttles fit in with your argument (or lack thereof).
Lately the discussion of 'carrier cloak' has gotten a bit out of hand (opinion), and I believe I know the root cause of this, it comes down to the various 'rules' that Cryptic uses to design ships, two of which are most relevant to the discussion of a Romulan Carrier:
#1: ALL Romulan ships (with few minor exceptions) have battle cloaks.
#2: NO 'Full Carrier' (2 hangars) have cloaks.
I'm just guessing here, but I'd bet that the above 'rules' are the reasons that Cryptic hasn't made a Romulan carrier, because it couldn't be made without a battle cloak and at the same time can't be made with one. The only solution left is NOT to make one.
We've been butting heads over this for days with no real progress made on the topic or even an acceptable compromise...
We've also forgotten that a Carrier is most out of character for Romulans, being the kind to manipulate opponents or lure them into traps with guile and subterfuge.
So I propose we scrap the whole Idea of a Romulan Carrier...:eek:
And make it a Reman Carrier, the Remans are also members of the Republic, and are exactly the kind of people to send wave after wave of fighters at a target without regards for losses.
This would allow the Republic to have a carrier that can stand up as well as a KDF or Fed version (comperable hull/shield modifiers), without the need for it to have a cloak since it would not be Romulan.
I am aware that *most* Reman Tech is inherited from the Romulans, but I think we can all agree that it Remans are generally more direct with their battle strategies and don't tend to be the "cloak and dagger" types, most of the time.
I realize this may not be the ideal compromise to the problem, but it's the best I can think of to give the Republic a Carrier without breaking the above rules. There is also precedent for my proposed compromise as Cryptic decided to design a Caitian carrier for the Feds as opposed to a Starfleet one...
Scimitar is a Reman design...it had cloak...perfect cloak.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Yes, they are are still ships that are used by the ROMULAN faction. I gave you examples of ROMULAN SHIPS without a battle cloak, and you continue to deny the simple fact that they are still Romulan ships because they don't employ the hit-and-run playstyle that comes with a battle cloak.
You're right with the lack of SHIPS having no battle cloak, however I don't see where the shuttles fit in with your argument (or lack thereof).
Gee umm...maybe because we aren't talking about shuttles? We're talking about Starships...you know the big things that carry shuttles?
The Temporal ships are carbon copies of the Fed versions...they don't even have a bloody singularity core...how hard is that to understand?
There isn't a single authentic Romulan starship that doesn't have battle cloak.
Lately the discussion of 'carrier cloak' has gotten a bit out of hand (opinion), and I believe I know the root cause of this, it comes down to the various 'rules' that Cryptic uses to design ships, two of which are most relevant to the discussion of a Romulan Carrier:
#1: ALL Romulan ships (with few minor exceptions) have battle cloaks.
#2: NO 'Full Carrier' (2 hangars) have cloaks.
I'm just guessing here, but I'd bet that the above 'rules' are the reasons that Cryptic hasn't made a Romulan carrier, because it couldn't be made without a battle cloak and at the same time can't be made with one. The only solution left is NOT to make one.
We've been butting heads over this for days with no real progress made on the topic or even an acceptable compromise...
We've also forgotten that a Carrier is most out of character for Romulans, being the kind to manipulate opponents or lure them into traps with guile and subterfuge.
So I propose we scrap the whole Idea of a Romulan Carrier...:eek:
And make it a Reman Carrier, the Remans are also members of the Republic, and are exactly the kind of people to send wave after wave of fighters at a target without regards for losses.
This would allow the Republic to have a carrier that can stand up as well as a KDF or Fed version (comperable hull/shield modifiers), without the need for it to have a cloak since it would not be Romulan.
I am aware that *most* Reman Tech is inherited from the Romulans, but I think we can all agree that it Remans are generally more direct with their battle strategies and don't tend to be the "cloak and dagger" types, most of the time.
I realize this may not be the ideal compromise to the problem, but it's the best I can think of to give the Republic a Carrier without breaking the above rules. There is also precedent for my proposed compromise as Cryptic decided to design a Caitian carrier for the Feds as opposed to a Starfleet one...
I have to agree with the highighted statement, and while it isn't an ideal solution to the problem, it is a solution nonetheless. It also gives the Remans a say in what ships are developed by the NR shipyards somewhat, seeing as though the Pilot Specialist ships seem to have had some design influence from the Remans (and Terran bats).
Scimitar is a Reman design...it had cloak...perfect cloak.
My opinions of the Scimitar aside, it is not typical of standard shipbuilding practices and should not be used as a baseline for comparison.
The Scimitar is basically a game-port of the massively overpowered ship seen in Nemesis, which WAS overpowered in the movie, weather or not the Scimitar is overpowered in-game I won't get into as it is irrelevant to the discussion.
I proposed a compromise which would remove the need to break Cryptic's own ship designing rules and you've dismissed it out of hand because of one ship class.
I fail to see how your lack of willingness to compromise on this subject will get us anywhere with our otherwise logical discussion on carriers. Therefore it would be illogical to further argue with you, and I won't even bother.
sharpie65, I do like your descriptions of the carriers, and a regular cloak would be acceptable, though less than desireable for both sides... an appropriate compromise lol
Thanks for your support on the matter, orion While I doubt I'm going to get anywhere, I think I'll revert to a standard/no cloak in support of your opinion.
Cool, thanks sharpie65, one little detail though...
Since the Reman Carrier doesn't have a cloak anymore, perhaps the hull/shield values should be buffed somewhat, so it's no longer paying for a benefit it no longer has? lol :P
You're simply taking away a core piece of the Romulan play style for who knows why...I don't know maybe jealous Feds and all you can basically say is because?
You're not giving any real reason why they shouldn't have it? 5 year old game design that has changed? "Well the Vo'quv, a almost 5 year old ship doesn't have cloak so the masters of cloak must not be able to cloak...even though the Scimitar is the biggest playable ship in the game and it can cloak!"
Well you know what? Years ago Feds didn't even have carriers...so I guess we should just toss you proposed Fed ship out the window? Why? Because!
You're the ones saying Battle Cloak would be weak on the carrier? So why do you even care if it gets it that? Why?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Cool, thanks sharpie65, one little detail though...
Since the Reman Carrier doesn't have a cloak anymore, perhaps the hull/shield values should be buffed somewhat, so it's no longer paying for a benefit it no longer has? lol :P
I'll buff them just enough to be in between the Fed an Klingon values, since the cloak is now history - I just hope that will be enough for our mutual friend. :rolleyes:
EDIT: The Rokhelh hull has been buffed, as have the shields to be between the Fed and KDF designs; the turn rate of all three ships has been upped from 6 to 7.5.
Hey, looked at the numbers, very balanced, no comlaints.
Though 7.5 is a bit quick for a carrier. *shrugs* Eh, I don't think it would be too much to make a new design a fraction more manuverable than the older ones, after all the Sarr Theln has a base turn of 7 so 7.5 isn't enough to complain about. Also the Kar'fi has a base turn of 8, so this would be right between them.
I'm still concerned about the whole stigma around carriers with cloaks and Romulan ships without, but making it a Reman Carrier is the best solution* since there is only the one canon Reman ship, and the lore around Remans does make them a bit closer to Klingons or Cardassians than Romulans.
*Romulan ships have battle cloaks, and 2-hangar carriers do not, the proposed carrier therefore cannot be Romulan. Or cannot have 2 hangars, but that would defeat the purpose of the design. It's only logical...
That's probably why we haven't seen any carriers post-LoR (outside of lock boxes) - because the Romulans would a) be very upset and vocal on the forums about it; or b) they would just refuse to play until it happened.
Hey, looked at the numbers, very balanced, no comlaints.
Though 7.5 is a bit quick for a carrier. *shrugs* Eh, I don't think it would be too much to make a new design a fraction more manuverable than the older ones, after all the Sarr Theln has a base turn of 7 so 7.5 isn't enough to complain about. Also the Kar'fi has a base turn of 8, so this would be right between them.
I'm still concerned about the whole stigma around carriers with cloaks and Romulan ships without, but making it a Reman Carrier is the best solution* since there is only the one canon Reman ship, and the lore around Remans does make them a bit closer to Klingons or Cardassians than Romulans.
*Romulan ships have battle cloaks, and 2-hangar carriers do not, the proposed carrier therefore cannot be Romulan. Or cannot have 2 hangars, but that would defeat the purpose of the design. It's only logical...
So we ignore lore? The only Reman ship was massive and had the best Cloak ever designed at the time...7.5 speed...thats faster than the Scimitar so obviously it isn't going to be a massive ship.
You just keep digging yourselves...it's just more and more obvious each post you don't want it to have Battle Cloak simply because.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
So we ignore lore? The only Reman ship was massive and had the best Cloak ever designed at the time...7.5 speed...thats faster than the Scimitar so obviously it isn't going to be a massive ship.
You just keep digging yourselves...it's just more and more obvious each post you don't want it to have Battle Cloak simply because.
I said I won't argue with you and for the record I'm not, I'm just going to explain my reasoning yet again, and hopefully you'll get it this time.
Every 2-hangar carrier in STO is without cloak, Period.
Every Romulan ship in STO has a cloak (with the exception of the Temporal vessel you've described as a carbon copy of the Fed's).
Given that the two reasons above are mutually exclusive, the proposed carrier either:
#1. cannot be a 2-hangar carrier
#2. cannot be Romulan
#3. cannot be made
which would you choose?
I realize that the Scimitar has a most impressive cloak, but aside from this 'superweapon' there are no Reman ships, and it HAS been documented* in canon that Remans are warriors and used as 'cannon fodder' in the Dominion War, which would suggest that Remans don't subscribe to the 'cloak and dagger' philosophies of Romulans.
I'd like to hear your ideas on how to resolve this problem without breaking any of Cryptic's ship design rules. As of yet, all we've heard is complaining that the Republic ship can't cloak. Well, here's your chance, come up with a compromse. We have, it's your turn.
"We will no longer bow before anyone as slaves. Not the Romulans and not your mighty Federation. We... are a race bred for war, and conquest."
- Praetor Shinzon, 2379
Edit: Would also like to add the Scimitar is not a Carrier, it is a Dreadnought, so comparing the Scimitar to a full carrier is an invalid argument. The Scimitar would compare more closely to an Elachi Sheshar, or Galaxy Dread, than a Sarr Theln.
Edit 2: I don't want this to be some kind of argument, I really do want to come to an equitable compromise that satisfies Cryptic's ship design rules and is acceptable to Republic Captains.
So we ignore lore? The only Reman ship was massive and had the best Cloak ever designed at the time...7.5 speed...thats faster than the Scimitar so obviously it isn't going to be a massive ship.
You just keep digging yourselves...it's just more and more obvious each post you don't want it to have Battle Cloak simply because.
If I wanted to, I could have given all three ships a ridiculously low turn rate to match that of the Haakona, Atrox, and Vo'quv on which they are based - a measly 5. Instead I opted to give them a 50% (2.5) increase to the turn rate, and inertia - neither of which I HAD to do. The Feds or Klinks aren't exactly getting a much better deal, and none of these ships were intended to be god-killing instawinners (which is clearly how you want all Romulan ships to be).
As for ignoring lore, there has been very little mention of Remans outside of Nemesis - that sort of makes it a little difficult to use the Scimitar as a basis for any future design that doesn't involve the massacre of entire planets.
Besides, the cloak would have only been there to prevent the detection and subsequent destruction of the Scimitar before completion, by loyal Imperialist vessels. In his wisdom, Shinzon saw a tactical advantage with the cloak and decided to keep it, as his enemies (the Federation, RSE, etc.) would be unable to detect him until it was too late. How's that for headcanon?
If I wanted to, I could have given all three ships a ridiculously low turn rate to match that of the Haakona, Atrox, and Vo'quv on which they are based - a measly 5. Instead I opted to give them a 50% (2.5) increase to the turn rate, and inertia - neither of which I HAD to do. The Feds or Klinks aren't exactly getting a much better deal, and none of these ships were intended to be god-killing instawinners (which is clearly how you want all Romulan ships to be).
As for ignoring lore, there has been very little mention of Remans outside of Nemesis - that sort of makes it a little difficult to use the Scimitar as a basis for any future design that doesn't involve the massacre of entire planets.
Besides, the cloak would have only been there to prevent the detection and subsequent destruction of the Scimitar before completion, by loyal Imperialist vessels. In his wisdom, Shinzon saw a tactical advantage with the cloak and decided to keep it, as his enemies (the Federation, RSE, etc.) would be unable to detect him until it was too late. How's that for headcanon?
Funny...I didn't know cloak could be god-killing instawin...and yet not very good...come on now which is it? I thought you two already agreed it wasn't very strong on a ship with 6 weapons and low amount of Tac consoles.
So like I said...we only have one example to take from and you're choosing to ignore it....doesn't matter if the Scimitar is a Dreadnought...
No matter how much you pretend not, the Vo'quv wasn't given a cloak because they felt it would be to strong back then...well in the age of power creep there clearly is almost no definition of to powerful. Second...the Vo'quv is the only full carrier for a cloaking faction made...
The RR has two ships that can cloak and have hangars...clearly Cryptic doesn't have a problem with it...you ever think that maybe the Romulans don't have a full carrier because they don't want to design one? The Romulans are like Klingons these days...they don't get new ships unless Feds get one too.
Last time I looked Feds haven't gotten a full carrier since the Atrox...which was pre-Romulan faction...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
...
So like I said...we only have one example to take from and you're choosing to ignore it....doesn't matter if the Scimitar is a Dreadnought...
No matter how much you pretend not, the Vo'quv wasn't given a cloak because they felt it would be to strong back then...well in the age of power creep there clearly is almost no definition of to powerful. Second...the Vo'quv is the only full carrier for a cloaking faction made...
The RR has two ships that can cloak and have hangars...clearly Cryptic doesn't have a problem with it...you ever think that maybe the Romulans don't have a full carrier because they don't want to design one? The Romulans are like Klingons these days...they don't get new ships unless Feds get one too.
Last time I looked Feds haven't gotten a full carrier since the Atrox...which was pre-Romulan faction...
Exactly, the Romulan Republic doesn't have a baseline carrier to compare with, so I've been comparing to KDF carriers, since KDF also use cloak and have more carriers to choose from Vo'quv and Kar'Fi, both 'full carriers'.
As for 'power creep' and the Vo'quv, people still fly their Vo'quv carriers, so they can't be that bad, also the Kar'Fi is newer and the most recent 'full carrier' the Sarr Theln isn't that much more powerful than a Fleet T5-U Vo'quv, which would stand to reason putting a cloak on a carrier now would be just as overpowered as it was then, but that's supposition not fact...
Considering the reception received from a hypothetical Romulan carrier, can you blame Cryptic for not designing one? Really, we've been arguing about this for the better part of a week, and we're just three people, imagine the mess if Cryptic did make a Romulan carrier without a cloak? With a cloak?
Unfortunately none of this helps to solve the problem, considering the precedents already in-game:
#1: Romulan ships use cloaks
#2: 2-Hangar carriers don't cloak
How would you propose to solve this problem? So far all you've done is belittle us for not making it cloak, I'd like to hear your solution.
Exactly, the Romulan Republic doesn't have a baseline carrier to compare with, so I've been comparing to KDF carriers, since KDF also use cloak and have more carriers to choose from Vo'quv and Kar'Fi, both 'full carriers'.
As for 'power creep' and the Vo'quv, people still fly their Vo'quv carriers, so they can't be that bad, also the Kar'Fi is newer and the most recent 'full carrier' the Sarr Theln isn't that much more powerful than a Fleet T5-U Vo'quv, which would stand to reason putting a cloak on a carrier now would be just as overpowered as it was then, but that's supposition not fact...
Considering the reception received from a hypothetical Romulan carrier, can you blame Cryptic for not designing one? Really, we've been arguing about this for the better part of a week, and we're just three people, imagine the mess if Cryptic did make a Romulan carrier without a cloak? With a cloak?
Unfortunately none of this helps to solve the problem, considering the precedents already in-game:
#1: Romulan ships use cloaks
#2: 2-Hangar carriers don't cloak
How would you propose to solve this problem? So far all you've done is belittle us for not making it cloak, I'd like to hear your solution.
Give it cloak?
How would it be over powered? Back then we didn't have Escorts with 5 forward weapons and 5 tac consoles...we didn't have healing galore...we didn't have a single ship above Raiders with battle cloak...we didn't have universal slots all over the place...we didn't have specializations...I can go on about the many MANY things STO didn't have back then...
If you don't see the power creep that has been built up since back then...then there is no point talking to you because you obviously are blinded.
One ship doesn't have cloak so no ship should have? Were you expecting the Breen ship to have cloak? The Dominion or Xindi?
You seem to want to ignore the fact that the Romulans cloak massive ships...and in case you have done the Cure found...that Vo'quv has cloak...before you say it...I highly doubt the Borg suddenly decided to instal Cloak on the ship.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
How would it be over powered? Back then we didn't have Escorts with 5 forward weapons and 5 tac consoles...we didn't have healing galore...we didn't have a single ship above Raiders with battle cloak...we didn't have universal slots all over the place...we didn't have specializations...I can go on about the many MANY things STO didn't have back then...
If you don't see the power creep that has been built up since back then...then there is no point talking to you because you obviously are blinded.
One ship doesn't have cloak so no ship should have? Were you expecting the Breen ship to have cloak? The Dominion or Xindi?
You seem to want to ignore the fact that the Romulans cloak massive ships...and in case you have done the Cure found...that Vo'quv has cloak...before you say it...I highly doubt the Borg suddenly decided to instal Cloak on the ship.
I've asked for a solution which would not violate both of the mentioned precedents, your solution is to completely ignore "#2: 2-hangar ships don't cloak", suffice it to say, your argument is invalid as Cryptic wouldn't violate their own ship design rules.
How would you solve this problem without disregarding either of these mutually exclusive precedents?
Edit: removed comments which divert from the main problem. If Cryptic made at least one (1) carrier with so much as a basic cloak, I'd say "Throw a battle cloak on that beastie!", but they haven't, therefore it would be illogical to assume that they would change their policy in the future.
I've asked for a solution which would not violate both of the mentioned precedents, your solution is to completely ignore "#2: 2-hangar ships don't cloak", suffice it to say, your argument is invalid as Cryptic wouldn't violate their own ship design rules.
How would you solve this problem without disregarding either of these mutually exclusive precedents?
Edit: removed comments which divert from the main problem. If Cryptic made at least one (1) carrier with so much as a basic cloak, I'd say "Throw a battle cloak on that beastie!", but they haven't, therefore it would be illogical to assume that they would change their policy in the future.
The answer is actually simple....
The Vo'quv was released at launch irrc
The Caitian Atrox was released on may 2012
Legacy of Romulus was released nov 2012
Current time may 2015[rl]
Due to the looming threat of the Iconians the Factions have decided to add new updated carriers to their lineups....
The Federation carrier designers went with a constant Low energy signitarure field to help mask their carriers similiar to what the Caitian stalker fighters have used in the past.
The Klingons decided to add the standard cloak to their carriers to help with their standard cloaked ship fleet movements.
The Romulans took ques from the D'Drex and Scimitar and added the standard Romulan battle cloak to their carrier.
How would you solve this problem without disregarding either of these mutually exclusive precedents?
#2 is resolved by the increased threat of the Iconians, thus Resolving #1 by the above suggestion.
"
Due to the looming threat of the Iconians the Factions have decided to add new updated carriers to their lineups...."
Is the reason all these T6 ships [Intel,Command,Pilot] were added in the 1st place [sell more ships]
I sure hope all three factions get a new carrier . I love flying carriers ( have the Atrox, Vo'quv and Kar'fi ) but especially the Atrox needs a solid upgrade . The upgrade for the vo'quv needn't be all that significant IMO, it's already a fine ship .And they should certainly maintain its bulky look
But what's really missing is a Romulan carrier ( I find the argument it goes "against canon "quite ridiculous since we're flying with Tholian ships, Jem'Hadar ships, Tal Shiar ships etc. ...canon was let go of loooong time ago)
I don't really care if it would be ship without cloak or singularity as long as that's compensated by other stuff to make it equal to other factions' carriers
The Vo'quv was released at launch irrc
The Caitian Atrox was released on may 2012
Legacy of Romulus was released nov 2012
Current time may 2015[rl]
Due to the looming threat of the Iconians the Factions have decided to add new updated carriers to their lineups....
The Federation carrier designers went with a constant Low energy signitarure field to help mask their carriers similiar to what the Caitian stalker fighters have used in the past.
The Klingons decided to add the standard cloak to their carriers to help with their standard cloaked ship fleet movements.
The Romulans took ques from the D'Drex and Scimitar and added the standard Romulan battle cloak to their carrier.
How would you solve this problem without disregarding either of these mutually exclusive precedents?
#2 is resolved by the increased threat of the Iconians, thus Resolving #1 by the above suggestion.
"
Due to the looming threat of the Iconians the Factions have decided to add new updated carriers to their lineups...."
Is the reason all these T6 ships [Intel,Command,Pilot] were added in the 1st place [sell more ships]
:rolleyes:
Adding a passive stealth like the intel ships have to the Fed version? That could work.
Basic cloak for Klingons? It fits.
And the Romulan gets their battle cloak...
With a valid reason to break from precedent #2, and they all balance out too! (Granted the KDF and Rom versions would need the necessary reduced stats for having actual cloaks over the Fed's passive stealth, though not nearly to the extant that Rom/KDF ships usually suffer.)
This is an acceptable compromise, well done, I'm game.
sharpie65, this would be a good reason to break from the normal precedent of 2-hangar ships not having cloaks, and in my opinion would make a clever addition to your designs.
Comments
I can see the potential benefit of cloaking a fleet for a lenghty journey through enemy territory, which would only require a basic cloak, not necessarily a battle cloak.
I do remember Nemesis, and If I'm not mistaken those were Reman fighters not Romulan, they were in fact on the Scimitar, a Reman ship. The Scimitar class only became Romulan in STO since Remans are a playable race for the Republic.
Worth noting, aside from the Reman Warbird Scimitar, there were no Romulan ships in canon, shows or movies that carried fighters, Romulans being the kind to manipulate behind the scenes instead of openly attack targets with the brute force of a carrier.
As for the benefits of a cloak. Yes it is a benefit for combat ships, a carrier is generally a support ship, so a cloak (while still useful) would be of less benefit. This isn't opinion, as the bonus damage from decloaking wouldn't be nearly as great on a ship with few tac abilities/consoles, lesser weapon power, number of weapons, etc...
However, if the proposed Romulan carrier *must* have a cloak, I suppose I can cease expressing my opinions of 'cloaking carriers', and just endeavor to keep the whole idea 'balanced'.
Proposal: A STANDARD CLOAKING DEVICE for the Romulan Carrier, simply because of the massive energy signature - coupled with the singularity core - that it would have as a consequence of carrying fighters. This would give the Romulans their precious cloaking device, whilst still keeping the three ships unique to their respective factions.
It should be noted that there is a DOff from the Elachi lock box that increases Auxiliary power while cloaked (I have no recollection of the name, but my level 50 Rom Sci has one for her Scimitar).
I've updated the OP to reflect these changes, and I hope to God that this entire fracas stops for the time being.
Merlin Strike Fighter
Designed in response to the Herald threat, and to supplement Starfleet's ageing squadrons of Peregrine Attack Fighters, the Merlin Strike Fighter has been designed with high-speed hit-and-run tactics in mind.
Despite being two-thirds the size of a Peregrine, the vessel is a testament to how far Starfleet has come since the Dominion War - it is more heavily armed, and boasts an optional, defensive payload of countermeasure systems. Borrowing technology from the Romulan Republic, the fighter is also capable of vanishing in the heat of battle when countermeasure probes are ineffective - thanks to it's battle cloaking device.
The emphasis truly is on high-speed and stealth, seen by the smaller and sleeker spaceframe as well as the concealed impulse exhausts. These two specific improvements combine to make the Merlin an effective multi-role fighter capable of attack runs, reconnaissance missions, and even courier escort.
Independence-class Fleet Carrier
Using a borrowed KDF Vo'quv spaceframe, the Independence-class makes use of lessons learned during Starfleet's tenure with loaned Atrox carriers. As a result, it is the first carrier vessel with a dedicated hangar and flight deck designed by the Starfleet Corps of Engineers and borrows design elements from the Vesta- and Odyssey-class vessels.
It is also the first ship to carry a dedicated wing of Starfleet's new Merlin-type strike fighters, and can be modified with very little effort to carry other small craft such as Danube- and Yellowstone-class runabouts.
qajunpaQ Strike Fighter
Using the Orion Syndicate's slaver and interceptor ships as base, the engineering teams at the Ty'Gokor Shipyards modified a battered Duj'hod Chariot to mimic the strike capability of Starfleet's Merlin fighter. Those same engineers then decided that the new craft should also have a new name, and despite several names being brought forward none seemed to be suitable.
The vessel was kept in storage until a suitable name was found, which came from a briefing by Captain Kadgar. The full name of SuvwI' qajunpaQ was chosen, meaning warrior's courage. This was eventually shortened to simply "qajunpaQ" a few weeks later.
The Ty'Gokor engineers also managed to reduce the size of the cloaking device used on their newer Birds-of-Prey, affording the newly-christened fighter the same capabilities as it's counterpart in Starfleet.
Batlh'Quv Fleet Carrier
Not content with continuing their use of the Vo'quv carrier while Utopia Planetia gave Starfleet the Independence Fleet Carriers, the Klingon High Council tasked the designers and engineers at Ty'Gokor Shipyards to create a stronger, more powerful carrier vessel. This ship was to retain all the capabilities of the Vo'quv and yet also be a ship in it's own right.
Enter the Batlh'Quv-class Carrier. Larger than it's predecessor the Vo'quv, the Bath'Quv made use of a captured Hirogen Apex battlecrusier which had been stripped of all weapons and equipment. The battlecruiser was declared unusable, and thus destined for target practice until the engineers saw it as a design that they could use.
Gyrfalcon Strike Drone
Seeing a need to supplement the Alliance's efforts in carrier and fighter craft construction, the teams at New Romulus Shipyards came to the conclusion that although the Scorpion fighters used aboard their Scimitar-line warbirds were effective, the numbers needed somewhat bolstering. They had several ideas in mind; but like the Klingons, the Romulan engineers wanted to emulate and better the technology seen in Starfleet's Merlins.
Drawing on the experience from the drones used aboard the Lleiset and other dreadnought warbirds, the same engineers then applied the drone fighter concept to the Gyrfalcon - affording internal space for flight testing and possible evacuation whilst maintaining a Romulan element.
Rokhelh-class Carrier Warbird
Based on a Ha'apax warbird spaceframe, Republic engineers were given the opportunity to test out the effectiveness of carrier vessels using a Romulan design. Simulation after simulation proved to be fruitless, as all proposed vessels were found to have catastrophic design flaws. The Republic Shipyards were then presented with an opportunity when a nearly-destroyed Ha'akona warbird in Ha'apax configuration - the R.R.W. Rokhelh - came in for repairs.
Despite repairing the damage to the outer hull, the vessel ended up needing the Dual Vector separation capability removed due to damage to the working parts. Subsequently, the engineering crews of both the warbird and the Republic shipyards made the decision to enlarge shuttle bays and amalgamate them with the Ha'feh section cargo areas and shuttle bays - creating the Romulan Republic's first carrier.
Just for the record, not all Romulan ships DO have it. Or do you not consider this ship Romulan?
Or this one?
Or the Romulan Temporal Destroyer/Science Vessel?
Because like it or not, these ships don't have a battle cloak and are yet, surprise surprise, still Romulan!
I said above fighter and the temporal ships don't count because they're just clones of the Fed version...they're lock box ships, they don't even have a Singularity core.
Like I've said before...from the Scorpion Fighter all the way to the massive Scimitar...they all have battle cloak.
*Why else would you be asking for a Carrier - not known for their agility, even in the modern world - that has a battle cloak?
Show me one Romulan ship Fighter or above that doesn't have battle cloak...and like I said the Temporal ships don't count because they're carbon copies of the Fed one with a different skin.
#1: ALL Romulan ships (with few minor exceptions) have battle cloaks.
#2: NO 'Full Carrier' (2 hangars) have cloaks.
I'm just guessing here, but I'd bet that the above 'rules' are the reasons that Cryptic hasn't made a Romulan carrier, because it couldn't be made without a battle cloak and at the same time can't be made with one. The only solution left is NOT to make one.
We've been butting heads over this for days with no real progress made on the topic or even an acceptable compromise...
We've also forgotten that a Carrier is most out of character for Romulans, being the kind to manipulate opponents or lure them into traps with guile and subterfuge.
So I propose we scrap the whole Idea of a Romulan Carrier...:eek:
And make it a Reman Carrier, the Remans are also members of the Republic, and are exactly the kind of people to send wave after wave of fighters at a target without regards for losses.
This would allow the Republic to have a carrier that can stand up as well as a KDF or Fed version (comperable hull/shield modifiers), without the need for it to have a cloak since it would not be Romulan.
I am aware that *most* Reman Tech is inherited from the Romulans, but I think we can all agree that it Remans are generally more direct with their battle strategies and don't tend to be the "cloak and dagger" types, most of the time.
I realize this may not be the ideal compromise to the problem, but it's the best I can think of to give the Republic a Carrier without breaking the above rules. There is also precedent for my proposed compromise as Cryptic decided to design a Caitian carrier for the Feds as opposed to a Starfleet one...
Yes, they are are still ships that are used by the ROMULAN faction. I gave you examples of ROMULAN SHIPS without a battle cloak, and you continue to deny the simple fact that they are still Romulan ships because they don't employ the hit-and-run playstyle that comes with a battle cloak.
You're right with the lack of SHIPS having no battle cloak, however I don't see where the shuttles fit in with your argument (or lack thereof).
Scimitar is a Reman design...it had cloak...perfect cloak.
Gee umm...maybe because we aren't talking about shuttles? We're talking about Starships...you know the big things that carry shuttles?
The Temporal ships are carbon copies of the Fed versions...they don't even have a bloody singularity core...how hard is that to understand?
There isn't a single authentic Romulan starship that doesn't have battle cloak.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mobius_Temporal_Destroyer
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Talvath_Temporal_Destroyer
They have the EXACT same stats all the way down to having a M/AM core.
They even have the exact same bridge...just the Romulan one is painted green.
I have to agree with the highighted statement, and while it isn't an ideal solution to the problem, it is a solution nonetheless. It also gives the Remans a say in what ships are developed by the NR shipyards somewhat, seeing as though the Pilot Specialist ships seem to have had some design influence from the Remans (and Terran bats).
My opinions of the Scimitar aside, it is not typical of standard shipbuilding practices and should not be used as a baseline for comparison.
The Scimitar is basically a game-port of the massively overpowered ship seen in Nemesis, which WAS overpowered in the movie, weather or not the Scimitar is overpowered in-game I won't get into as it is irrelevant to the discussion.
I proposed a compromise which would remove the need to break Cryptic's own ship designing rules and you've dismissed it out of hand because of one ship class.
I fail to see how your lack of willingness to compromise on this subject will get us anywhere with our otherwise logical discussion on carriers. Therefore it would be illogical to further argue with you, and I won't even bother.
sharpie65, I do like your descriptions of the carriers, and a regular cloak would be acceptable, though less than desireable for both sides... an appropriate compromise lol
Since the Reman Carrier doesn't have a cloak anymore, perhaps the hull/shield values should be buffed somewhat, so it's no longer paying for a benefit it no longer has? lol :P
You're simply taking away a core piece of the Romulan play style for who knows why...I don't know maybe jealous Feds and all you can basically say is because?
You're not giving any real reason why they shouldn't have it? 5 year old game design that has changed? "Well the Vo'quv, a almost 5 year old ship doesn't have cloak so the masters of cloak must not be able to cloak...even though the Scimitar is the biggest playable ship in the game and it can cloak!"
Well you know what? Years ago Feds didn't even have carriers...so I guess we should just toss you proposed Fed ship out the window? Why? Because!
You're the ones saying Battle Cloak would be weak on the carrier? So why do you even care if it gets it that? Why?
I'll buff them just enough to be in between the Fed an Klingon values, since the cloak is now history - I just hope that will be enough for our mutual friend. :rolleyes:
EDIT: The Rokhelh hull has been buffed, as have the shields to be between the Fed and KDF designs; the turn rate of all three ships has been upped from 6 to 7.5.
Though 7.5 is a bit quick for a carrier. *shrugs* Eh, I don't think it would be too much to make a new design a fraction more manuverable than the older ones, after all the Sarr Theln has a base turn of 7 so 7.5 isn't enough to complain about. Also the Kar'fi has a base turn of 8, so this would be right between them.
I'm still concerned about the whole stigma around carriers with cloaks and Romulan ships without, but making it a Reman Carrier is the best solution* since there is only the one canon Reman ship, and the lore around Remans does make them a bit closer to Klingons or Cardassians than Romulans.
*Romulan ships have battle cloaks, and 2-hangar carriers do not, the proposed carrier therefore cannot be Romulan. Or cannot have 2 hangars, but that would defeat the purpose of the design. It's only logical...
So we ignore lore? The only Reman ship was massive and had the best Cloak ever designed at the time...7.5 speed...thats faster than the Scimitar so obviously it isn't going to be a massive ship.
You just keep digging yourselves...it's just more and more obvious each post you don't want it to have Battle Cloak simply because.
I said I won't argue with you and for the record I'm not, I'm just going to explain my reasoning yet again, and hopefully you'll get it this time.
Every 2-hangar carrier in STO is without cloak, Period.
Every Romulan ship in STO has a cloak (with the exception of the Temporal vessel you've described as a carbon copy of the Fed's).
Given that the two reasons above are mutually exclusive, the proposed carrier either:
#1. cannot be a 2-hangar carrier
#2. cannot be Romulan
#3. cannot be made
which would you choose?
I realize that the Scimitar has a most impressive cloak, but aside from this 'superweapon' there are no Reman ships, and it HAS been documented* in canon that Remans are warriors and used as 'cannon fodder' in the Dominion War, which would suggest that Remans don't subscribe to the 'cloak and dagger' philosophies of Romulans.
I'd like to hear your ideas on how to resolve this problem without breaking any of Cryptic's ship design rules. As of yet, all we've heard is complaining that the Republic ship can't cloak. Well, here's your chance, come up with a compromse. We have, it's your turn.
*Quote from ST Nemesis (taken from http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Reman):
"We will no longer bow before anyone as slaves. Not the Romulans and not your mighty Federation. We... are a race bred for war, and conquest."
- Praetor Shinzon, 2379
Edit: Would also like to add the Scimitar is not a Carrier, it is a Dreadnought, so comparing the Scimitar to a full carrier is an invalid argument. The Scimitar would compare more closely to an Elachi Sheshar, or Galaxy Dread, than a Sarr Theln.
Edit 2: I don't want this to be some kind of argument, I really do want to come to an equitable compromise that satisfies Cryptic's ship design rules and is acceptable to Republic Captains.
If I wanted to, I could have given all three ships a ridiculously low turn rate to match that of the Haakona, Atrox, and Vo'quv on which they are based - a measly 5. Instead I opted to give them a 50% (2.5) increase to the turn rate, and inertia - neither of which I HAD to do. The Feds or Klinks aren't exactly getting a much better deal, and none of these ships were intended to be god-killing instawinners (which is clearly how you want all Romulan ships to be).
As for ignoring lore, there has been very little mention of Remans outside of Nemesis - that sort of makes it a little difficult to use the Scimitar as a basis for any future design that doesn't involve the massacre of entire planets.
Besides, the cloak would have only been there to prevent the detection and subsequent destruction of the Scimitar before completion, by loyal Imperialist vessels. In his wisdom, Shinzon saw a tactical advantage with the cloak and decided to keep it, as his enemies (the Federation, RSE, etc.) would be unable to detect him until it was too late. How's that for headcanon?
Funny...I didn't know cloak could be god-killing instawin...and yet not very good...come on now which is it? I thought you two already agreed it wasn't very strong on a ship with 6 weapons and low amount of Tac consoles.
So like I said...we only have one example to take from and you're choosing to ignore it....doesn't matter if the Scimitar is a Dreadnought...
No matter how much you pretend not, the Vo'quv wasn't given a cloak because they felt it would be to strong back then...well in the age of power creep there clearly is almost no definition of to powerful. Second...the Vo'quv is the only full carrier for a cloaking faction made...
The RR has two ships that can cloak and have hangars...clearly Cryptic doesn't have a problem with it...you ever think that maybe the Romulans don't have a full carrier because they don't want to design one? The Romulans are like Klingons these days...they don't get new ships unless Feds get one too.
Last time I looked Feds haven't gotten a full carrier since the Atrox...which was pre-Romulan faction...
Exactly, the Romulan Republic doesn't have a baseline carrier to compare with, so I've been comparing to KDF carriers, since KDF also use cloak and have more carriers to choose from Vo'quv and Kar'Fi, both 'full carriers'.
As for 'power creep' and the Vo'quv, people still fly their Vo'quv carriers, so they can't be that bad, also the Kar'Fi is newer and the most recent 'full carrier' the Sarr Theln isn't that much more powerful than a Fleet T5-U Vo'quv, which would stand to reason putting a cloak on a carrier now would be just as overpowered as it was then, but that's supposition not fact...
Considering the reception received from a hypothetical Romulan carrier, can you blame Cryptic for not designing one? Really, we've been arguing about this for the better part of a week, and we're just three people, imagine the mess if Cryptic did make a Romulan carrier without a cloak? With a cloak?
Unfortunately none of this helps to solve the problem, considering the precedents already in-game:
#1: Romulan ships use cloaks
#2: 2-Hangar carriers don't cloak
How would you propose to solve this problem? So far all you've done is belittle us for not making it cloak, I'd like to hear your solution.
Give it cloak?
How would it be over powered? Back then we didn't have Escorts with 5 forward weapons and 5 tac consoles...we didn't have healing galore...we didn't have a single ship above Raiders with battle cloak...we didn't have universal slots all over the place...we didn't have specializations...I can go on about the many MANY things STO didn't have back then...
If you don't see the power creep that has been built up since back then...then there is no point talking to you because you obviously are blinded.
One ship doesn't have cloak so no ship should have? Were you expecting the Breen ship to have cloak? The Dominion or Xindi?
You seem to want to ignore the fact that the Romulans cloak massive ships...and in case you have done the Cure found...that Vo'quv has cloak...before you say it...I highly doubt the Borg suddenly decided to instal Cloak on the ship.
I've asked for a solution which would not violate both of the mentioned precedents, your solution is to completely ignore "#2: 2-hangar ships don't cloak", suffice it to say, your argument is invalid as Cryptic wouldn't violate their own ship design rules.
Try again.
Precedents:
#1: Romulan ships cloak
#2: 2-Hangar ships don't cloak
How would you solve this problem without disregarding either of these mutually exclusive precedents?
Edit: removed comments which divert from the main problem. If Cryptic made at least one (1) carrier with so much as a basic cloak, I'd say "Throw a battle cloak on that beastie!", but they haven't, therefore it would be illogical to assume that they would change their policy in the future.
The answer is actually simple....
The Vo'quv was released at launch irrc
The Caitian Atrox was released on may 2012
Legacy of Romulus was released nov 2012
Current time may 2015[rl]
Due to the looming threat of the Iconians the Factions have decided to add new updated carriers to their lineups....
The Federation carrier designers went with a constant Low energy signitarure field to help mask their carriers similiar to what the Caitian stalker fighters have used in the past.
The Klingons decided to add the standard cloak to their carriers to help with their standard cloaked ship fleet movements.
The Romulans took ques from the D'Drex and Scimitar and added the standard Romulan battle cloak to their carrier.
How would you solve this problem without disregarding either of these mutually exclusive precedents?
Precedents:
#1: Romulan ships cloak
#2: 2-Hangar ships don't cloak
#2 is resolved by the increased threat of the Iconians, thus Resolving #1 by the above suggestion.
"
Due to the looming threat of the Iconians the Factions have decided to add new updated carriers to their lineups...."
Is the reason all these T6 ships [Intel,Command,Pilot] were added in the 1st place [sell more ships]
:rolleyes:
But what's really missing is a Romulan carrier ( I find the argument it goes "against canon "quite ridiculous since we're flying with Tholian ships, Jem'Hadar ships, Tal Shiar ships etc. ...canon was let go of loooong time ago)
I don't really care if it would be ship without cloak or singularity as long as that's compensated by other stuff to make it equal to other factions' carriers
Adding a passive stealth like the intel ships have to the Fed version? That could work.
Basic cloak for Klingons? It fits.
And the Romulan gets their battle cloak...
With a valid reason to break from precedent #2, and they all balance out too!
This is an acceptable compromise, well done, I'm game.
sharpie65, this would be a good reason to break from the normal precedent of 2-hangar ships not having cloaks, and in my opinion would make a clever addition to your designs.