Yes...the Scimitar has 2 more weapon slots than these carriers..
Then what will the Romulan carrier get to compensate for removing a iconic ability that all Romulan ships are based on? Will the Romulan version get a 4/3? Will it have more tac consoles? will it not have the -10 power to each sub-system penalty?
Not to mention these ships are identical practically except the Romulan one has less hull than the KDF one and less of a shield than the Fed one...
You basically took the iconic ability all Romulan ships are based around from Fighter up and removed it while still forcing Romulans to face all of the penalties.
If you feel that the -10 power levels as a penalty then you probably don't use the singularity powers, and even so, it is easily possible to get a full 125 in subsystem power levels using a singularity core. In practice the -10 power levels isn't a penalty so much as it a cost for having singularity powers.
As for a cloak, hiding such a massive ship like a carrier would be prohibitive in terms of power, and just not very feasable for such a ship, even Klingons use cloaks quite often but don't use cloaks on their Vo'quv carriers.
Interesting take on the Strike Fighters, I do have one suggestion though.
Since Science team would require some manpower to use (logically speaking, in common use it doesn't though ) , perhaps using Transfer Shield Strength, or Rotate Shield Frequency (I know it's an ENG Captain power, but it could work on fightercraft)?
You have a point with the Science Team and manpower. Updating it as we speak.
Carriers pay for their pets with weapon slots because their pets are weapons. a 3/5 carrier with those stats (10 turn rate, humongous hull) is a standard cruiser (3/5 or 4/4 doesn't matter for a default BFAW boat) with three (!) hangars. That's a bit... extreme.
You guys think to small. This is suppose to be the Next Gen of space carriers and we are in a Universal War. Don't you think its time we went big.
I was hoping for more of a science-y focus..but since the Scimi-drones have EPtW AND EPtS, why not make the same thing true for a fighter?
Although, ST could be more logical...Arrrgghh! I can't choose...stuff it, I'll take both! :cool:
You guys think to small. This is suppose to be the Next Gen of space carriers and we are in a Universal War. Don't you think its time we went big.
Quite possibly so..although that would largely invalidate the Sarr Theln, which is one of these Next Gen carriers. I'm not saying that we should ignore the blooming great war that's going on all around our heads, but save the 3 hangars and uber-awesome turn rate with massive hull for AFTER the Iconians have been subju-- err, defeated by the Alliance.
If you feel that the -10 power levels as a penalty then you probably don't use the singularity powers, and even so, it is easily possible to get a full 125 in subsystem power levels using a singularity core. In practice the -10 power levels isn't a penalty so much as it a cost for having singularity powers.
As for a cloak, hiding such a massive ship like a carrier would be prohibitive in terms of power, and just not very feasable for such a ship, even Klingons use cloaks quite often but don't use cloaks on their Vo'quv carriers.
So...you can get 125 power in sub-system?
My point is every Romulan vessel from Fighter to above has cloak...even massive ships like the D'D and the Scimitar...they're the cloaking experts.
Plus how can you speak of size of a ship that hasn't been imagined? There are ships smaller than the Scimitar which have 2 hangars...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
For FED anything is better then that Bicycle seat horrible looking piece of kitty litter (bet it smells like one too). So yes please a proper FED looking carrier.
The first Belfast was commanded by Captain Ve'Kal Shon until its destruction in 2409. A new ship was commissioned bearing the same name and registry as special dispensation to then newly promoted Captain Edward XIII for his pivotal role during the renewed Dominion War.
My point is every Romulan vessel from Fighter to above has cloak...even massive ships like the D'D and the Scimitar...they're the cloaking experts.
Plus how can you speak of size of a ship that hasn't been imagined? There are ships smaller than the Scimitar which have 2 hangars...
Not trying to start something here, but I was using the Vo'quv as a reference point for size vs. cloak capability, the Scimitar is an oddity for this comparison and if it didn't have a cloak in Nemesis, I doubt it would have one in STO.
I do agree that since most (if not all) Romulan ships have cloaks it would be somewhat odd for them to develop one without, but then again, The Klingon Empire did it with the mentioned Vo'quv... most (if not all) Klingon ships in the shows/movies had cloaks and the Vo'quv does not.
And yes, it's not terribly difficult to get 125 system power in a Romulan ship, might I suggest trying some of the Reputation consoles, Assimilated console +5 weapon power, Nukara console +5 shields, add to that and Emergency to (subsystem) III power, gets you darn close, if not there, with nothing else added... If you're an engineer it's even easier, just add the EPS transfer ability and you've got most of your levels 100+
I've been thinking about the base for the qajunpaQ fighters, and I gave myself the challenge of streamlining the Klingon Duj'hod Chariot from the 400 day rewards. As for the Gyrfalcon drones, I've yet to find inspiration.
How about a real carrier not some cruiser/sci hybrid carriers. Make a true carrier class.
at 60:
75k hull
1.5 shield mod
turn of 5
lt tac, lt sci/carrier, lt uni, ltc sci, com eng/carrier.
4 devices
4/eng/4sci/3tac
3/3 weapon but may only mount turrets
2 frigate hangers
4 fighter hangers
Carrier would have carrier command specializations. that would enhance frigate/fighter buffs/heals/damage for frigates and fighters only. As well as team support skills such as something like:
For carrier command:
Attack wing gamma:
All fighters attack selected target: resetting any cool downs on fighters (such as torps or beam overload) increasing fight speed by 50% and gaining 15% damage bonus vs target.
for team support
Follow my lead: Carrier selects a target that all that players fighters attack. Any other player/fighter attack the target that is are marked by the carrier get a 10% damage boost for the duration.
something like that.
Make carriers like what they should be.. command and control for fighters and ships... not these sci/cruiser type ships that we call carriers.
Id rather had dedicated carriers like the above then the current type.
How about a real carrier not some cruiser/sci hybrid carriers. Make a true carrier class.
.../snip
Id rather had dedicated carriers like the above then the current type.
Whilst it would be good to have carriers an entirely separate type of ship, I doubt they would do this unless the only Tier 6 Carrier (thus far), the Sarr Theln, also had the stats you mentioned retroactively applied.
And besides, turrets aren't exactly that useful for protecting your ship if that's all you have - especially if all of your fighter wings get destroyed in the first five minutes of any battle.
Whilst it would be good to have carriers an entirely separate type of ship, I doubt they would do this unless the only Tier 6 Carrier (thus far), the Sarr Theln, also had the stats you mentioned retroactively applied.
And besides, turrets aren't exactly that useful for protecting your ship if that's all you have - especially if all of your fighter wings get destroyed in the first five minutes of any battle.
That's the point of needing to add a carrier specialization tree. So they can add passive buffs to carrier pets and carrier skills that can be used..
Like launch all fighter wings.. that allows the carrier pilot to immediately relaunch all fighters wings.
There are lots of ways to buff/change the way carriers and there pets are handled.
ya I agree I doubt we will ever see a true carrier.
That's the point of needing to add a carrier specialization tree. So they can add passive buffs to carrier pets and carrier skills that can be used..
Like launch all fighter wings.. that allows the carrier pilot to immediately relaunch all fighters wings.
There are lots of ways to buff/change the way carriers and there pets are handled.
ya I agree I doubt we will ever see a true carrier.
A carrier-focused specialization would be awesome, and would give the Art Team an excuse to start designing MOAR Carriers for endgame! While we probably won't see an Absolute Carrier, it's still nice to dream...
*** ****** ****** ****** ****** ***
Now on to the Gimmicks (console, mastery trait etc.)
What should the Level 5 Mastery be, and should it be universal across the factions?
Should they come with a console, or innate ability of any kind (ignoring Carrier Commands and Subsystem Targeting for the moment)?
A carrier-focused specialization would be awesome, and would give the Art Team an excuse to start designing MOAR Carriers for endgame! While we probably won't see an Absolute Carrier, it's still nice to dream...
*** ****** ****** ****** ****** ***
Now on to the Gimmicks (console, mastery trait etc.)
What should the Level 5 Mastery be, and should it be universal across the factions?
Should they come with a console, or innate ability of any kind (ignoring Carrier Commands and Subsystem Targeting for the moment)?
DISCUSS!
I think kelshando's idea (in bold) would make a decent Carrier Mastery trait, assuming it had a lockout timer say 120-180 seconds between full deployments...
Considering that recent cross-faction bundles have had shared mastery traits, it'll probably be appropriate to keep with 'tradition' and make said trait shared as well, just to keep things fair...
Not trying to start something here, but I was using the Vo'quv as a reference point for size vs. cloak capability, the Scimitar is an oddity for this comparison and if it didn't have a cloak in Nemesis, I doubt it would have one in STO.
I do agree that since most (if not all) Romulan ships have cloaks it would be somewhat odd for them to develop one without, but then again, The Klingon Empire did it with the mentioned Vo'quv... most (if not all) Klingon ships in the shows/movies had cloaks and the Vo'quv does not.
And yes, it's not terribly difficult to get 125 system power in a Romulan ship, might I suggest trying some of the Reputation consoles, Assimilated console +5 weapon power, Nukara console +5 shields, add to that and Emergency to (subsystem) III power, gets you darn close, if not there, with nothing else added... If you're an engineer it's even easier, just add the EPS transfer ability and you've got most of your levels 100+
Well the Klingons aren't cloaking masters...and except for the Intel ship and the Peghqu' nothing above a Raider has battle cloak...maybe back then the Devs didn't give it a cloak because they thought it would be OP...but it's obvious that wouldn't be the problem these days.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Expanding from my previous point regarding the singularity cores, it would virtually pointless to have a cloak-capable carrier if the pets weren't surviving long enough to make the cloak effective. I don't intend for the ScimiDrones to be usable on ol' Rokhelh, which would make sense coming from that point.
Well the Klingons aren't cloaking masters...and except for the Intel ship and the Peghqu' nothing above a Raider has battle cloak...maybe back then the Devs didn't give it a cloak because they thought it would be OP...but it's obvious that wouldn't be the problem these days.
I'm starting to think this falls along the lines of "We Romulans want EVERYTHING!!!", however, I'll assume this isn't the case.
Considering that Klingons have had cloaking tech for nearly as long as Romulans, it is plausable that Klingons are 'nearly' as adept at building/using them as Romulans.
That bit aside, what point would it be to cloak a carrier? You can't launch fighters while cloaked, the 'ambush damage bonus' from decloaking wouldn't be of much benefit for a ship with limited tac consoles and only 6 weapons, also you wouldn't be able to effectively flank an opponent by using the cloak since most EVERY ship is more manuverable than a carrier. I'm not even going to get into how vulnerable the carrier would be if it were detected through the cloak with no shields.
It just doesn't make any sense to cloak a giant slow moving airport...
However, all things considered Romulans aren't the 'direct conflict' kind of people, a Romulan carrier doesn't make much sense using the standard Romulan arguments anyway. So it wouldn't be any more canon breaking for a Romulan Carrier NOT to cloak.
I'm starting to think this falls along the lines of "We Romulans want EVERYTHING!!!", however, I'll assume this isn't the case.
Considering that Klingons have had cloaking tech for nearly as long as Romulans, it is plausable that Klingons are 'nearly' as adept at building/using them as Romulans.
That bit aside, what point would it be to cloak a carrier? You can't launch fighters while cloaked, the 'ambush damage bonus' from decloaking wouldn't be of much benefit for a ship with limited tac consoles and only 6 weapons, also you wouldn't be able to effectively flank an opponent by using the cloak since most EVERY ship is more manuverable than a carrier. I'm not even going to get into how vulnerable the carrier would be if it were detected through the cloak with no shields.
It just doesn't make any sense to cloak a giant slow moving airport...
However, all things considered Romulans aren't the 'direct conflict' kind of people, a Romulan carrier doesn't make much sense using the standard Romulan arguments anyway. So it wouldn't be any more canon breaking for a Romulan Carrier NOT to cloak.
Romulans were designed around the singularity abilities and cloak as a hi-risk, hi-reward.
A 25-40% ambush damage bonus for 20+ secs is nothing to sneeze at even with 6 weapons and 2-3 tac consoles [which btw the raiders typically have 6 weapons and 3 tac consoles their advantage is high speed, but just FYI the Romulan Battle cloak gives a +10 to turn after 3 secs just by engaging it fully]
Decloak, launch ships and fire away use some abilities and recloak 9 secs later if needed sounds like an effective strategy in normal PVE.
The Romulan Star Empire has long been one of the dominant powers in the Alpha Quadrant. Boasting unparalleled Cloaking technology, powerful Plasma and Disruptor weaponry, and the resourcefulness to quickly develop countermeasures for the tactics of other factions, Romulans were a key force in many conflicts since the 2150s.
Warbirds the most iconic of Romulan vessels have formed the backbone of the Romulan military for centuries. With the destruction of Romulus, these Warbirds have become a lasting symbol of the once mighty empires strength as well as a new home for some of the many refugees in the wake of their planets destruction.
With an emphasis on the tactical use of potent abilities stemming from advanced Romulan technology, Romulan Warbirds are built to fight like the Romulans themselves with a high risk, high reward style.
Romulan Ship Basics
Romulans are masters of Cloaking technology, and all Warbirds are equipped with a Cloaking device. In addition, the Romulan racial trait Subterfuge enhances the performance of Cloaking devices and increases the damage that their ships deal after lowering their Cloak.
Romulan ships tend to be large and heavy, making them somewhat slower and less maneuverable than comparable Federation and Klingon Defense Force ships. The iconic Dderidex, for example, is larger and more resilient than the Galaxy but considerably slower as a result.
Unlike Federation and Klingon Defense Force vessels, Romulan Warbirds are powered by a unique Singularity Warp Core. The Singularity Warp Core can build power as the Romulan ship engages in combat, and then utilize this power to produce one of several devastating effects on the battlefield.
As an added consequence of their unique Warp Core, Warbirds create a deadly Singularity implosion when they are destroyed.
I'm starting to think this falls along the lines of "We Romulans want EVERYTHING!!!", however, I'll assume this isn't the case.
Considering that Klingons have had cloaking tech for nearly as long as Romulans, it is plausable that Klingons are 'nearly' as adept at building/using them as Romulans.
That bit aside, what point would it be to cloak a carrier? You can't launch fighters while cloaked, the 'ambush damage bonus' from decloaking wouldn't be of much benefit for a ship with limited tac consoles and only 6 weapons, also you wouldn't be able to effectively flank an opponent by using the cloak since most EVERY ship is more manuverable than a carrier. I'm not even going to get into how vulnerable the carrier would be if it were detected through the cloak with no shields.
It just doesn't make any sense to cloak a giant slow moving airport...
However, all things considered Romulans aren't the 'direct conflict' kind of people, a Romulan carrier doesn't make much sense using the standard Romulan arguments anyway. So it wouldn't be any more canon breaking for a Romulan Carrier NOT to cloak.
Want everything...that's rich coming from a Fed lol
Read up on the Cloaking Device...if you knew your history not only were they the first to develop the tech, they traded the tech to Klingons for much needed vessels.
So you want to tell me they aren't the masters of cloak?
The many reasons you've given are exact reasons why it wouldn't be very OP...so why do you care if the Romulans get cloak or not?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I'm now beginning to regret considering the Romulans for carrier tech...this honestly seems to be turning into one of those entitlement threads... Even I didn't include them, I'd still be in the firing line for not giving them that option *sigh* I guess I can't win.
Read up on the Cloaking Device...if you knew your history not only were they the first to develop the tech, they traded the tech to Klingons for much needed vessels.
So you want to tell me they aren't the masters of cloak?
The many reasons you've given are exact reasons why it wouldn't be very OP...so why do you care if the Romulans get cloak or not?
Didn't need that clarification, I knew Romulans developed cloaking, traded with Klingons for ships (D7's), and Feds (Kirk specifically) stole the tech. Worth noting Starfleet took the tech one step further than Romulans ever did on the U.S.S. Pegasus, in violation of the Treaty of Algeron mind you...
As for me being a Fed, don't let the avatar fool you, I'm also a KDF officer AND a Romulan.
Being a Romulan I still don't see the point of a carrier with a cloak, since carriers are meant to be supported by other ships, let the other ships cloak.
Also you've convienently avoided my point, since Romulans aren't the kind of people for direct confrontations, a carrier doesn't make sense to start with, according to your arguments FOR a cloaking romulan ship it shouldn't even be a carrier.
Making a Romulan carrier, is already taking a step away from established canon, and since carriers don't need to sneak up on anything, keeping their distance and attacking with fighters mostly, a cloak would likely go unused most of the time anyway.
As for cloaking being of direct combat benefit, I agree, that cloaks DO provide a noticable combat advantage, especially for sneak attacks, but we're missing the little detail that carriers don't do that, they aren't the fast strike ship that most warbirds are, even the larger slower warbirds are often used in ambush scenarios. None of the above tactics are generally employed by carrier captains, and shouldn't be, it's an entirely different type of ship, not a warbird.
Lastly, I didn't want this to become some kind of argument, I really do like sharpie65's idea for a T6 carrier, let's be civil about our disagreements, yes?
Edit: I am not firmly opposed to a cloaking carrier, dispite failing to see the point, if the Romulan variant employed a cloak there should be a noticable difference in the other stats from the other variants to make up for the cloaking advantage.
Decloak, launch ships and fire away use some abilities and recloak 9 secs later if needed sounds like an effective strategy in normal PVE.
While it does sound like an effective strategy, it wouldn't be how the carriers are intended to be played. Dreadnoughts (crusiers and warbirds both), maybe. Carriers, no.
While it does sound like an effective strategy, it wouldn't be how the carriers are intended to be played. Dreadnoughts (crusiers and warbirds both), maybe. Carriers, no.
Yes, this is my line of thinking, a full sized carrier isn't a dreadnought or 'escort carrier' and shouldn't be employed as one. Sneak attacks are an effective tactic, just not one for a big ole flying brick of a carrier.
Let me get this straight? You think the Romulan carrier doesn't need compensation for losing something that every other single Romulan ship has...but you think the other factions should be compensated if they keep it?
Sounds good to me! :rolleyes: (In case you couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic.)
Romulan ships generally have weaker hulls, lower shield mods, higher crews, less power, and weaker cores in exchange for Singularity powers and Battle Cloak on every ship...
If you're going to take away one of the advantages that Romulans have which disadvantages are you going to eliminate or what else are you going to do to compensate?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Let me get this straight? You think the Romulan carrier doesn't need compensation for losing something that every other single Romulan ship has...but you think the other factions should be compensated if they keep it?
Sounds good to me! :rolleyes: (In case you couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic.)
Romulan ships generally have weaker hulls, lower shield mods, higher crews, less power, and weaker cores in exchange for Singularity powers and Battle Cloak on every ship...
If you're going to take away one of the advantages that Romulans have which disadvantages are you going to eliminate or what else are you going to do to compensate?
Actually this (in bold) is what I was referring to by what I said, specifically I meant that if the Romulan carrier variant comes with a cloak (or battle cloak), that it should not have the same stats as the KDF/Fed Variants, and should have the lower hull/shield values that Romulan ships typically have.
Edit: I am still slightly opposed to a Romulan carrier having a cloak, and if the Romulan Variant lost said cloak, it could justify having higher hull/shield values that KDF/Fed ships generally enjoy...
Actually this (in bold) is what I was referring to by what I said, specifically I meant that if the Romulan carrier variant comes with a cloak (or battle cloak), that it should not have the same stats as the KDF/Fed Variants, and should have the lower hull/shield values that Romulan ships typically have.
Edit: I am still slightly opposed to a Romulan carrier having a cloak, and if the Romulan Variant lost said cloak, it could justify having higher hull/shield values that KDF/Fed ships generally enjoy...
I live with the downsides of them every day and in return I'm happy with my cloak...and I'm not saying it should have the same hull and shields...plus what ever else and have cloak...I just think it should have cloak...or else why should I fly it over a Scimitar or Sarr Theln...one has cloak and the other is a full carrier with 4 tac consoles.
P.S. If you look at the stats...the Romulan one has the weakest hull and it has the lower shield mod than Fed ship
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Being a Romulan I still don't see the point of a carrier with a cloak, since carriers are meant to be supported by other ships, let the other ships cloak.
Also you've convienently avoided my point, since Romulans aren't the kind of people for direct confrontations, a carrier doesn't make sense to start with, according to your arguments FOR a cloaking romulan ship it shouldn't even be a carrier.
Making a Romulan carrier, is already taking a step away from established canon, and since carriers don't need to sneak up on anything, keeping their distance and attacking with fighters mostly, a cloak would likely go unused most of the time anyway.
Few points...
For one there is the lore/roleplaying aspect of it. That's why they would have cloaks. If your moving a cloaked fleet the last thing you want is to have your carrier not cloaking with the rest of the fleet giving its positions away.
Them not having a carrier is in fact taking away from established cannon. The Romulans are the only Faction other then the Federation (ds9 ep. Sacrifice of Angels) that has shown fighters being used in the shows/movies. Did you forget Star Trek: Nemesis? It clearly showed Romulan fighters in a hangers on a Romulan starship.
So out side of "it wouldn't be that effective in game" opinion there is really no argument against a Romulan cloaking carrier.
Comments
If you feel that the -10 power levels as a penalty then you probably don't use the singularity powers, and even so, it is easily possible to get a full 125 in subsystem power levels using a singularity core. In practice the -10 power levels isn't a penalty so much as it a cost for having singularity powers.
As for a cloak, hiding such a massive ship like a carrier would be prohibitive in terms of power, and just not very feasable for such a ship, even Klingons use cloaks quite often but don't use cloaks on their Vo'quv carriers.
You have a point with the Science Team and manpower. Updating it as we speak.
Forget Transfer Shield Strength, shield heal over time wouldn't be optimal for small craft.
How about Emergency to Shields I (or II)?
Just occured to me while getting coffee, lol
You guys think to small. This is suppose to be the Next Gen of space carriers and we are in a Universal War. Don't you think its time we went big.
Although, ST could be more logical...Arrrgghh! I can't choose...stuff it, I'll take both! :cool:
Quite possibly so..although that would largely invalidate the Sarr Theln, which is one of these Next Gen carriers. I'm not saying that we should ignore the blooming great war that's going on all around our heads, but save the 3 hangars and uber-awesome turn rate with massive hull for AFTER the Iconians have been subju-- err, defeated by the Alliance.
So...you can get 125 power in sub-system?
My point is every Romulan vessel from Fighter to above has cloak...even massive ships like the D'D and the Scimitar...they're the cloaking experts.
Plus how can you speak of size of a ship that hasn't been imagined? There are ships smaller than the Scimitar which have 2 hangars...
The first Belfast was commanded by Captain Ve'Kal Shon until its destruction in 2409. A new ship was commissioned bearing the same name and registry as special dispensation to then newly promoted Captain Edward XIII for his pivotal role during the renewed Dominion War.
Not trying to start something here, but I was using the Vo'quv as a reference point for size vs. cloak capability, the Scimitar is an oddity for this comparison and if it didn't have a cloak in Nemesis, I doubt it would have one in STO.
I do agree that since most (if not all) Romulan ships have cloaks it would be somewhat odd for them to develop one without, but then again, The Klingon Empire did it with the mentioned Vo'quv... most (if not all) Klingon ships in the shows/movies had cloaks and the Vo'quv does not.
And yes, it's not terribly difficult to get 125 system power in a Romulan ship, might I suggest trying some of the Reputation consoles, Assimilated console +5 weapon power, Nukara console +5 shields, add to that and Emergency to (subsystem) III power, gets you darn close, if not there, with nothing else added... If you're an engineer it's even easier, just add the EPS transfer ability and you've got most of your levels 100+
at 60:
75k hull
1.5 shield mod
turn of 5
lt tac, lt sci/carrier, lt uni, ltc sci, com eng/carrier.
4 devices
4/eng/4sci/3tac
3/3 weapon but may only mount turrets
2 frigate hangers
4 fighter hangers
Carrier would have carrier command specializations. that would enhance frigate/fighter buffs/heals/damage for frigates and fighters only. As well as team support skills such as something like:
For carrier command:
Attack wing gamma:
All fighters attack selected target: resetting any cool downs on fighters (such as torps or beam overload) increasing fight speed by 50% and gaining 15% damage bonus vs target.
for team support
Follow my lead: Carrier selects a target that all that players fighters attack. Any other player/fighter attack the target that is are marked by the carrier get a 10% damage boost for the duration.
something like that.
Make carriers like what they should be.. command and control for fighters and ships... not these sci/cruiser type ships that we call carriers.
Id rather had dedicated carriers like the above then the current type.
Whilst it would be good to have carriers an entirely separate type of ship, I doubt they would do this unless the only Tier 6 Carrier (thus far), the Sarr Theln, also had the stats you mentioned retroactively applied.
And besides, turrets aren't exactly that useful for protecting your ship if that's all you have - especially if all of your fighter wings get destroyed in the first five minutes of any battle.
That's the point of needing to add a carrier specialization tree. So they can add passive buffs to carrier pets and carrier skills that can be used..
Like launch all fighter wings.. that allows the carrier pilot to immediately relaunch all fighters wings.
There are lots of ways to buff/change the way carriers and there pets are handled.
ya I agree I doubt we will ever see a true carrier.
A carrier-focused specialization would be awesome, and would give the Art Team an excuse to start designing MOAR Carriers for endgame!
*** ****** ****** ****** ****** ***
Now on to the Gimmicks (console, mastery trait etc.)
What should the Level 5 Mastery be, and should it be universal across the factions?
Should they come with a console, or innate ability of any kind (ignoring Carrier Commands and Subsystem Targeting for the moment)?
DISCUSS!
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
Now, now..I'm sure that's what the Dyson Spheres are for!
I think kelshando's idea (in bold) would make a decent Carrier Mastery trait, assuming it had a lockout timer say 120-180 seconds between full deployments...
Considering that recent cross-faction bundles have had shared mastery traits, it'll probably be appropriate to keep with 'tradition' and make said trait shared as well, just to keep things fair...
Well the Klingons aren't cloaking masters...and except for the Intel ship and the Peghqu' nothing above a Raider has battle cloak...maybe back then the Devs didn't give it a cloak because they thought it would be OP...but it's obvious that wouldn't be the problem these days.
I'm starting to think this falls along the lines of "We Romulans want EVERYTHING!!!", however, I'll assume this isn't the case.
Considering that Klingons have had cloaking tech for nearly as long as Romulans, it is plausable that Klingons are 'nearly' as adept at building/using them as Romulans.
That bit aside, what point would it be to cloak a carrier? You can't launch fighters while cloaked, the 'ambush damage bonus' from decloaking wouldn't be of much benefit for a ship with limited tac consoles and only 6 weapons, also you wouldn't be able to effectively flank an opponent by using the cloak since most EVERY ship is more manuverable than a carrier. I'm not even going to get into how vulnerable the carrier would be if it were detected through the cloak with no shields.
It just doesn't make any sense to cloak a giant slow moving airport...
However, all things considered Romulans aren't the 'direct conflict' kind of people, a Romulan carrier doesn't make much sense using the standard Romulan arguments anyway. So it wouldn't be any more canon breaking for a Romulan Carrier NOT to cloak.
Romulans were designed around the singularity abilities and cloak as a hi-risk, hi-reward.
A 25-40% ambush damage bonus for 20+ secs is nothing to sneeze at even with 6 weapons and 2-3 tac consoles [which btw the raiders typically have 6 weapons and 3 tac consoles their advantage is high speed, but just FYI the Romulan Battle cloak gives a +10 to turn after 3 secs just by engaging it fully]
Decloak, launch ships and fire away use some abilities and recloak 9 secs later if needed sounds like an effective strategy in normal PVE.
Want everything...that's rich coming from a Fed lol
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan_technology
Read up on the Cloaking Device...if you knew your history not only were they the first to develop the tech, they traded the tech to Klingons for much needed vessels.
So you want to tell me they aren't the masters of cloak?
The many reasons you've given are exact reasons why it wouldn't be very OP...so why do you care if the Romulans get cloak or not?
Didn't need that clarification, I knew Romulans developed cloaking, traded with Klingons for ships (D7's), and Feds (Kirk specifically) stole the tech. Worth noting Starfleet took the tech one step further than Romulans ever did on the U.S.S. Pegasus, in violation of the Treaty of Algeron mind you...
As for me being a Fed, don't let the avatar fool you, I'm also a KDF officer AND a Romulan.
Being a Romulan I still don't see the point of a carrier with a cloak, since carriers are meant to be supported by other ships, let the other ships cloak.
Also you've convienently avoided my point, since Romulans aren't the kind of people for direct confrontations, a carrier doesn't make sense to start with, according to your arguments FOR a cloaking romulan ship it shouldn't even be a carrier.
Making a Romulan carrier, is already taking a step away from established canon, and since carriers don't need to sneak up on anything, keeping their distance and attacking with fighters mostly, a cloak would likely go unused most of the time anyway.
As for cloaking being of direct combat benefit, I agree, that cloaks DO provide a noticable combat advantage, especially for sneak attacks, but we're missing the little detail that carriers don't do that, they aren't the fast strike ship that most warbirds are, even the larger slower warbirds are often used in ambush scenarios. None of the above tactics are generally employed by carrier captains, and shouldn't be, it's an entirely different type of ship, not a warbird.
Lastly, I didn't want this to become some kind of argument, I really do like sharpie65's idea for a T6 carrier, let's be civil about our disagreements, yes?
Edit: I am not firmly opposed to a cloaking carrier, dispite failing to see the point, if the Romulan variant employed a cloak there should be a noticable difference in the other stats from the other variants to make up for the cloaking advantage.
While it does sound like an effective strategy, it wouldn't be how the carriers are intended to be played. Dreadnoughts (crusiers and warbirds both), maybe. Carriers, no.
Yes, this is my line of thinking, a full sized carrier isn't a dreadnought or 'escort carrier' and shouldn't be employed as one. Sneak attacks are an effective tactic, just not one for a big ole flying brick of a carrier.
Sounds good to me! :rolleyes: (In case you couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic.)
Romulan ships generally have weaker hulls, lower shield mods, higher crews, less power, and weaker cores in exchange for Singularity powers and Battle Cloak on every ship...
If you're going to take away one of the advantages that Romulans have which disadvantages are you going to eliminate or what else are you going to do to compensate?
Actually this (in bold) is what I was referring to by what I said, specifically I meant that if the Romulan carrier variant comes with a cloak (or battle cloak), that it should not have the same stats as the KDF/Fed Variants, and should have the lower hull/shield values that Romulan ships typically have.
Edit: I am still slightly opposed to a Romulan carrier having a cloak, and if the Romulan Variant lost said cloak, it could justify having higher hull/shield values that KDF/Fed ships generally enjoy...
I live with the downsides of them every day and in return I'm happy with my cloak...and I'm not saying it should have the same hull and shields...plus what ever else and have cloak...I just think it should have cloak...or else why should I fly it over a Scimitar or Sarr Theln...one has cloak and the other is a full carrier with 4 tac consoles.
P.S. If you look at the stats...the Romulan one has the weakest hull and it has the lower shield mod than Fed ship
Few points...
For one there is the lore/roleplaying aspect of it. That's why they would have cloaks. If your moving a cloaked fleet the last thing you want is to have your carrier not cloaking with the rest of the fleet giving its positions away.
Them not having a carrier is in fact taking away from established cannon. The Romulans are the only Faction other then the Federation (ds9 ep. Sacrifice of Angels) that has shown fighters being used in the shows/movies. Did you forget Star Trek: Nemesis? It clearly showed Romulan fighters in a hangers on a Romulan starship.
So out side of "it wouldn't be that effective in game" opinion there is really no argument against a Romulan cloaking carrier.