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Tier 6 Carrier
sharpie65
Member Posts: 679 Arc User
Hey all, I'd like to pick your brains on the likelihood of a Tier 6 carrier for all three factions (the Klingon and Romulan ones will also be posted here as a centralized location).
United Federation of Planets/Starfleet
Independence-class Carrier [T6]
Hull: 45685 (Level 50); 54000 (Level 60)
Shield Modifier: 1.1
Weapons: 3 Forward; 3 Aft (Can Equip Dual Cannons)
Hangar Bays: 2, stocked with Merlin Strike Fighters
Crew: 3000
Bridge Officer Stations: Commander Science; Lieutenant Commander Tactical/Command; Lieutenant Commander Engineering; Lieutenant Universal/Specialist; Ensign Universal
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Engineering; 4 Science; 3 Tactical
Turn Rate: 7.5
Traction/Friction: 30
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Bonus Power: +5 Shield Power
+10 Auxiliary Power
Cloaking Device: None; Passive Energy Dampening Field/Warp Signature Masking
Carrier Commands
Subsystem Targeting
Klingon Empire/KDF
Batlh'Quv (Noble Honor)-class Carrier [T6]
Hull: 46825 (Level 50); 56500 (Level 60)
Shield Modifier: 1.0
Weapons: 3 Forward; 3 Aft (Can Equip Dual Cannons)
Hangar Bays: 2, stocked with qajunpaQ Strike Fighters
Crew: 4000
Bridge Officer Stations: Commander Science; Lieutenant Commander Tactical/Command; Lieutenant Commander Engineering; Lieutenant Universal/Specialist; Ensign Universal
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Engineering; 4 Science; 3 Tactical
Turn Rate: 7.5
Traction/Friction: 30
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Bonus Power: +5 Weapons Power
+10 Auxiliary Power
Cloaking Device: Standard Cloak
Carrier Commands
Subsystem Targeting
Romulan Republic
Rokhelh (Defender)-class Carrier - Reman [T6]
Hull: 46255 (Level 50); 54000 (Level 60)
Shield Modifier: 1.0
Weapons: 3 Forward; 3 Aft (Can Equip Dual Cannons)
Hangar Bays: 2, stocked with Gyrfalcon Strike Drones
Crew: 3000
Bridge Officer Stations: Commander Science; Lieutenant Commander Tactical/Command; Lieutenant Commander Engineering; Lieutenant Universal/Specialist[/COLOR]; Ensign Universal
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Engineering; 4 Science; 3 Tactical
Turn Rate: 7.5
Traction/Friction: 30
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Bonus Power: +5 Engine Power
+10 Auxiliary Power
Cloaking Device: Standard Romulan Battle
Carrier Commands
Subsystem Targeting
Singularity Core Abilities:
Plasma Shockwave
Quantum Absorption
Warp Shadows
Singularity Jump
Singularity Overcharge
EDIT 6: Removed all reference to previous edits; updated the stats to reflect recent changes in the discussion.
EDIT 7: Standardised the BOff Layout across all factions.
FOR THE DEVS:
I'm curious to see whether the Carriers mentioned above would be feasible for use in-game, and as the designer I would appreciate your opinions on the matter.
United Federation of Planets/Starfleet
Independence-class Carrier [T6]
Hull: 45685 (Level 50); 54000 (Level 60)
Shield Modifier: 1.1
Weapons: 3 Forward; 3 Aft (Can Equip Dual Cannons)
Hangar Bays: 2, stocked with Merlin Strike Fighters
Crew: 3000
Bridge Officer Stations: Commander Science; Lieutenant Commander Tactical/Command; Lieutenant Commander Engineering; Lieutenant Universal/Specialist; Ensign Universal
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Engineering; 4 Science; 3 Tactical
Turn Rate: 7.5
Traction/Friction: 30
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Bonus Power: +5 Shield Power
+10 Auxiliary Power
Cloaking Device: None; Passive Energy Dampening Field/Warp Signature Masking
Carrier Commands
Subsystem Targeting
Klingon Empire/KDF
Batlh'Quv (Noble Honor)-class Carrier [T6]
Hull: 46825 (Level 50); 56500 (Level 60)
Shield Modifier: 1.0
Weapons: 3 Forward; 3 Aft (Can Equip Dual Cannons)
Hangar Bays: 2, stocked with qajunpaQ Strike Fighters
Crew: 4000
Bridge Officer Stations: Commander Science; Lieutenant Commander Tactical/Command; Lieutenant Commander Engineering; Lieutenant Universal/Specialist; Ensign Universal
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Engineering; 4 Science; 3 Tactical
Turn Rate: 7.5
Traction/Friction: 30
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Bonus Power: +5 Weapons Power
+10 Auxiliary Power
Cloaking Device: Standard Cloak
Carrier Commands
Subsystem Targeting
Romulan Republic
Rokhelh (Defender)-class Carrier - Reman [T6]
Hull: 46255 (Level 50); 54000 (Level 60)
Shield Modifier: 1.0
Weapons: 3 Forward; 3 Aft (Can Equip Dual Cannons)
Hangar Bays: 2, stocked with Gyrfalcon Strike Drones
Crew: 3000
Bridge Officer Stations: Commander Science; Lieutenant Commander Tactical/Command; Lieutenant Commander Engineering; Lieutenant Universal/Specialist[/COLOR]; Ensign Universal
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Engineering; 4 Science; 3 Tactical
Turn Rate: 7.5
Traction/Friction: 30
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Bonus Power: +5 Engine Power
+10 Auxiliary Power
Cloaking Device: Standard Romulan Battle
Carrier Commands
Subsystem Targeting
Singularity Core Abilities:
Plasma Shockwave
Quantum Absorption
Warp Shadows
Singularity Jump
Singularity Overcharge
EDIT 6: Removed all reference to previous edits; updated the stats to reflect recent changes in the discussion.
EDIT 7: Standardised the BOff Layout across all factions.
FOR THE DEVS:
I'm curious to see whether the Carriers mentioned above would be feasible for use in-game, and as the designer I would appreciate your opinions on the matter.
Post edited by sharpie65 on
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Comments
I just consider the whole 'carrier' concept so 20th century in an 'age' when even shuttles have warp capability.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Usually it's possible to reasonably discuss almost anything. In this case, though: WTF are you smoking, man? :P
EDIT: Just now read the "Forum explosion" bit of your posting, so it's intentional trolling. At least good job, I didn't realize until the very last moment
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Regarding corelogik's statement, I think it has more to do with a different playstyle. In-lore, shuttles have a drastically smaller storage capacity for antimatter and other fuel required for warp drive. A skilled enough carrier captain can handle most single-player content with little effort (but then again, you don't need a carrier to do that).
Personally, I like being able to send out a couple of waves of fighters and have them deal with a couple of enemies (GW3 is very handy).
I would agree with you..if every other true carrier in the game had 6-8 bays.
This is what I suggest,
3/5 Yes 3 in front 5 in back
1.4 shield mod.
65,000 hull
Hangar bays 3
Crew 2500
Turn rate 10
Impulse .15
Inertia rating 35
Bridge officer stations, This would change depending on if it was a Tac, Engineer or Science ship.
Commander station would reflect what type of ship it is, Tac, Engineer or Science.
Lt Commander Universal, That Commander and Intell abilitys could be used in. No pilot for carriers.
Lt. Engineer
Lt. Tac
Lt. Science.
Bonus Power +10 Shields + 10 Aux.
I think you just largely invalidated cruisers
Carriers pay for their pets with weapon slots because their pets are weapons. a 3/5 carrier with those stats (10 turn rate, humongous hull) is a standard cruiser (3/5 or 4/4 doesn't matter for a default BFAW boat) with three (!) hangars. That's a bit... extreme.
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That pretty much sums up my reaction. Lol
Seriously, though, drop the cloaks (cloaking a carrier would require near-prohibitive amounts of power. Opinon, you don't have to tear it apart as 'not-fact'), and you'd have a good layout for a T6 Carrier.
With the exception of the Commander specialist seat, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Commander specialist seats are generally reserved for the Specialist Starships like the Command ships. So lowering the Specialist seats one level each should be appropriate. Perhaps turn the Lt. Com Sci into Sci/Command, and the Lt. tac into Lt. Tac/Specialist.
One last thing, the KDF/RRW ships should have the same BOFF layout as the Fed, 90% of people would just slot a Tac in a Uni anyway, and having a carrier with Two Lt. Com tac officers on board would be crazy, most cruisers can barely manage to get one Lt. Com Tac, having a carrier with two would make a carrier more of a beast in direct ship-to-ship combat than a BFAW Boat. (Anyone else think running FAW III x2 on a carrier is right? lol)
I'd buy a three pack of carriers, being a carrier captian I'm somewhat displeased with the current selection of T6 carriers available... Still using my Sarr Theln.
(The current options for hangar pets is a whole other topic, one I could go on at length, but this isn't the thread for it.)
I'll have to agree with the Targ in the room on this one, carriers have fewer weapons because of the hangars, if you really want three hangars, I'd say having 3/2 weapons would be more appropriate, but then you'd definately deal less overall damage since fighters can't stay alive long enough to finish a cup of coffee.
Five weapons in the aft? Lol, what are you gonna do, moon your enemy? :P
And 10 turn rate? I'd kill to have that turn rate on some cruisers, a carrier is A LOT more massive than a cruiser it shouldn't run circles around them.
***
Discussion Time: What hangar pets should these carriers have? I was thinking one bay of heavy/"modern" fighters whilst the other bay has a Frigate-type pet..I'm thinking either Defiant/S
Leviathan Class Carrier
Lenght: 6500 m
Width: 2200 m
Height: 700 m
5 fore weapons and 5 aft weapons slots
Hull HP - 60000 base at lvl 50, 70000 base at lvl 60
Shield HP - 10-13,000 base
Crew - 2000
3 hangar bays
Turn rate 5
Shield modifier 1.0
Lt cmd tac
Commander Engineering
Lt cmd universal/command
Lt science
Ensign universal
5 engineering console slots
4 science console slots
4 tac console slots
SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
But let's leave the cloaks to the types that can better make use of them, shall we?
Is this a carrier or a Death Star??? Oh, wait, wrong franchise...
Seriously, the only way this could be any more overpowered is if it had a Commander Intel Station on it...
Carriers have always had 3/3 weapons BECAUSE of the TWO (2) hangars, anything more wouldn't be appropriate.
Thirteen console slots??? Even for a Fleet-level ship that's 2 too many, drop one tac and one of the other ones, this is a carrer not a battlecruiser...
Personally the OP's carrier specs are quite balanced (with the possible exception of 2 Lt.Com specialist seats), this thing would cause widespread nerd-rage as it's way to powerful for a T6 carrier.
I only mentioned the Defiant because of Quad Cannons..if the Ning'Tao could get them,it would only be a reasonable equivalent. But the Maquis raider..I believe it's the Condor-class(?) might be a suitably-sized Federation Frigate pet.
I also have a heavy fighter in mind (original concept was a bomber, I think I still have the artwork somewhere): Merlin-class (to follow the Starfleet penchant for naming fighters/raiders after Terran predatory birds) 2/1 weapon loadout, slightly better stats than the Peregrine and comes with Deploy Countermeasures 2, TS1, EPtE1, and PH1 as standard.
I agree that the hangar pets need an overhaul, although by how much and what is not exactly my field.
Independence
Batlh'Quv
Rokhelh
Opinions please?
His point is a 'true carrier' would have more than 2 bays, and that the current carriers are not 'true carriers' but oversized science cruisers with a couple of shuttle bays, and bad handling.
Which is a fair point, 'true carriers' don't carry much in the way of conventional firepower, their role is to spam pets to do all their fighting for them.
The carriers we see in STO are a bit like slicing two of the primary gun turrets off a WWII battleship, and welding them to the flight deck of a Nimitz class carrier, and scrapping 2/3rds of the ships aircraft...
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
Hey, took a quick look at your designs, honestly the KDF one surprised me, Klingon ships don't usually come with four nacelles but your design makes it work, very cool.
The Fed one ACTUALLY looks like a carrier that Starfleet would design, it keeps the basic theme of federation ships and has the bulk to carry the massive amounts of equipment and personnel required for a carrier, also cool.
The Romulan one I'm a bit dubious about, from the side it looks like the Haakona warbird, which in fairness does kinda look like it could be a carrier... It could work, but then again I'm no expert with romulan ships lol.
I'd buy those if Cryptic put them in-game, assuming I had Zen at the time.. hehe
The intention with the Klingon one is for it to be based upon the Hirogen Apex, hence the 4 nacelles.
I based the Fed design on the Vo'Quv, although from the front I imagine it to look like an oversized Vesta
The Rokhelh was indeed based on the Ha'apax/Haakona (Dual Vector capability removed to accommodate the the hangar bay, located on the direct aft). :cool:
If I can find it, I'll put up the Merlin art when I get home (based on the Delta Flyer).
I see your point now...if the carriers in-game had a 1/1 load out and came with an innate point defence ability, and came with 5 or 6 hangar bays, they would be more like carriers of today. Which is perfectly plausible to expect.
EDIT: 1/1 is a bit on the underpowered side, especially for the DPS focus of the game.
Why not? The Scimitar have a 5/3 weapon setup and it has a hangar with cloak and 5 tac console slots...there are 4/3 ships with double hangars and SST...why can't a 3/3 have cloak?
Because the Vo'quv doesn't have cloak? Well they Vo'quv was made well before we had the powerful carriers we have these days.
I just don't see why they couldn't cloak...not like they don't suffer anyways for having a 3/3 and a low amount of Tac slots.
Give the Romulan one 5 Sci/4 Eng/2 Tac if you're worried about battle cloak being op. Doesn't need 4 tac consoles like the Sarr Theln...
Merlin Strike Fighter
Some info about the Merlin BEFORE any design criticisms you may have.
I originally designed this baby as a bomber (in the Star Trek Universe, obsolete when you can have orbital strikes) with tricobalt bombs and mines. I know, it's ridiculous when a single tricobalt torpedo can set off an extinction-level event in atmosphere. xD
Anyway, I digress. The fighter comes with (refined from earlier) Quantum Microtorpedoes, a Phaser Pulse Cannon, and a Phaser Turret. BOff skills are (on the basic fighters) Torpedo High Yield 1, Emergency Power to Engines 1, and Polarize Hull 1.
Advanced Merlin Fighters come with the gear and skills as above, plus Phaser Dual Cannons, Deploy Countermeasures 2, and Emergency Power to Shields 2.
Elite Fighters have the gear and skills from Basic and Advanced, plus Dual Phaser Beam Bank, Cannon Rapid Fire 2, Auxiliary to Structural 2, and Battle Cloak. My reasoning for battle cloak is that they are a strike fighter - in and out as quickly as possible, then return to the mothership.
For the Klingon qajunpaQ fighters and Romulan Gyrfalcons, the loadout is the same - simply swap the phasers for disruptors and plasma weapons on the respective ships.
Your comparison with the Scimitar would be ok, except the Scimitar only has one hanger bay AND a 5/3 weapon loadout. These being Carriers and not Dreadnoughts, they already have an intensive power drain to keep the fighter bays at full functioning capacity - a cloak would not do anything to mitigate that. Furthermore, there are no true carriers with a cloak of any kind in game, so why should I break tradition? I'm aware that this is my design and I can make it however I like, but the battle cloak would only serve to make every other carrier in the game obsolete.
Yes...the Scimitar has 2 more weapon slots than these carriers..
Then what will the Romulan carrier get to compensate for removing a iconic ability that all Romulan ships are based on? Will the Romulan version get a 4/3? Will it have more tac consoles? will it not have the -10 power to each sub-system penalty?
Not to mention these ships are identical practically except the Romulan one has less hull than the KDF one and less of a shield than the Fed one...
You basically took the iconic ability all Romulan ships are based around from Fighter up and removed it while still forcing Romulans to face all of the penalties.
For the record, Romulan ships are not "based on" or around the RBC. They are based on the singularity core and powers, and I'd like to think of the battle cloak as a side effect of the "near-limitless power" that comes with having an artificial singularity power your ship.
I've tried to make these ships balanced and fair, based on the two previously seen carriers (Voquv and Atrox), and the way I see it, a battle cloak on carrier would remove that sense of fairness. I'll put it this way - if the Romulan ship got a battle cloak, the Klingon carrier would also need to get a standard one to remain fair, but the Fed one would get nothing since Starfleet tries not to make a habit of plonking a cloaking device on any of it's ships.
After all, the few carriers that are currently present in-game have no cloaking abilities (bar the Kar'fi with it's Phase Shift Generator, but that's a console). That maybe the reason we haven't seen a carrier for the Romulans yet, the devs are trying to figure out a way to appease the vapers when their nice new ship doesn't have a cloak.
Since Science team would require some manpower to use (logically speaking, in common use it doesn't though