I think it's Ferengi. Lots of typo errors in game. Sela may have said "Profits.":P
Hah, so that's Sela's grand plan; to buy the Iconian out? Find whoever holds the lease for those Dyson Spheres, pay more than the Iconian/Herald are for the rent, and then have them booted out.
seems kinda pointless to just have them as a species option though...
No different to what they've already done with Liverated Borg and Talaxian, not to mention all the Bridge Officers from otherwise non-aligned species. Then you've got all the alien starships being flown by Starfleet, Imperialists or Republicans.
As pointless or wrong as it may be, it is, and people will put money into a Dominion character.
Hah, so that's Sela's grand plan; to buy the Iconian out? Find whoever holds the lease for those Dyson Spheres, pay more than the Iconian/Herald are for the rent, and then have them booted out.
Sounds like a reasonable plan.
No different to what they've already done with Liverated Borg and Talaxian, not to mention all the Bridge Officers from otherwise non-aligned species. Then you've got all the alien starships being flown by Starfleet, Imperialists or Republicans.
As pointless or wrong as it may be, it is, and people will put money into a Dominion character.
There's a big difference though. The Lib Borg are ostensibly people who are merely returning to their homes after liberation. Talaxians.... well they don't really have what I'd consider a military so they have a reason to be in the military of an allied power. And Boffs... well they aren't exactly in charge of the ship...
Well, what in Star Trek has repeatedly been referred to as the "Prophets?" When you hear the term "Prophets" for Star Trek, what comes to mind?
The term "Gate" can be used in the same way the Bajoran Wormhole acts. A gate limits and controls traffic between its two sides. Exactly the same way the wormhole has acted.
Anyways, in the Gamma Quadrant, the Dominion "is it." It's the big, huge, dominating power there. The Gamma Quadrant isn't like the Alpha, Beta, and even Delta Quadrants. It isn't divided up between a fairly evenly powered entities. It's not divided up in space in the same way traditional Trek stomping grounds are between the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire in canon or including the Romulan Republic from STO. The Gamma Quadrant is dominated by the Dominion.
Sela's second transmission also makes hint of garnering support for the Iconian War from unexpected places. Most especially to include old enemies. Now, I know in STO we've been fighting EVERYONE, to include even the earlier Federation-Klingon War. But the "old enemies" bit fits very snugly with the last truly major threat that had to be faced: The Dominion in the catastrophic Dominion War. And it just so happens to be where I believe Sela went.
Dominion support would greatly help the Iconian War effort. The Dominion isn't a little fiefdom like the Federation, Klingon Empire, etc. As mentioned before, it dominates a quadrant. Vast military power.
Of course, *IF* the Dominion joins in the war it means a few obvious things:
- Expect to see Dominion fleets being sent to fight alongside the Alliance. If not that, at least fighting the Iconians if they will not be in Alliance control.
- Expect to have Dominion holdings back in the Gamma Quadrant to be attacked also. This also gives a reason for inclusion of more Gamma Quadrant content.
*IF* the Dominion enters the war, that has lots of potential things that could affect the game, depending on what Cryptic wants or is capable of. We're only touching the tip of the iceberg with this thread.
Well, what in Star Trek has repeatedly been referred to as the "Prophets?" When you hear the term "Prophets" for Star Trek, what comes to mind?
When I hear it?
The Ferengi. :P
(which BTW I would take over a cardassian/dominion faction/expansion. There's something fundamentally new about it while the Dom/Cardies is just another flavor of major quadrant power. Let's have something from the little man for a change...)
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Star trek is huge i am sure they will open up more mini factions
Yah but of possible mini-factions there's other, less complicated options than the 3 box-ship Jem'Hadar (ex. borg, Kremin, Ferengi or even something new.)
Perhaps only the Xindi are less likely.
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Yah but of possible mini-factions there's other, less complicated options than the 3 box-ship Jem'Hadar (ex. borg, Kremin, Ferengi or even something new.)
Perhaps only the Xindi are less likely.
What's complicated about a supposed Dominion faction? The existing Dominion Lockbox/Event ships? Keep them.
- Whoever has their current Jem'Hadar faction ships: Keep them.
- Generate Vorta, Jem'Hadar player character races, or whatever other Gamma Quadrant ones.
- JHAS/JHEC/JHDC become part of the staple of the Dominion ship lineup, T1-T6. Include the Jem'Hadar Battleship.
- Include canon Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser - These are actually in the game but are extremely rare to see.
- Generate new Dominion ships for players to use. Just like Cryptic did with the Romulans. Just like Cryptic did for even the KDF & Fed ships that weren't canon.
Most of the assets for the foundation of a Dominion faction/mini-faction are already in the game. Most of the canon ships are already ingame. We already have Jem'Hadar and Vorta NPCs and their art assets. We already have Jem'Hadar uniforms and weaponry. The foundation is already in the game for the devs to expand upon them.
What's complicated about a supposed Dominion faction? The existing Dominion Lockbox/Event ships? Keep them.
- Whoever has their current Jem'Hadar faction ships: Keep them.
- Generate Vorta, Jem'Hadar player character races, or whatever other Gamma Quadrant ones.
- JHAS/JHEC/JHDC become part of the staple of the Dominion ship lineup, T1-T6. Include the Jem'Hadar Battleship.
- Include canon Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser - These are actually in the game but are extremely rare to see.
- Generate new Dominion ships for players to use. Just like Cryptic did with the Romulans. Just like Cryptic did for even the KDF & Fed ships that weren't canon.
Most of the assets for the foundation of a Dominion faction/mini-faction are already in the game. Most of the canon ships are already ingame. We already have Jem'Hadar and Vorta NPCs and their art assets. We already have Jem'Hadar uniforms and weaponry. The foundation is already in the game for the devs to expand upon them.
One thing to remember here is that there is no need for cryptic to have only one T5 Bugship. So they are free to do a lockbox version AND a freebie, AND a zstore version if they choose.
What's complicated about a supposed Dominion faction? The existing Dominion Lockbox/Event ships? Keep them.
- Whoever has their current Jem'Hadar faction ships: Keep them.
- Generate new Dominion ships for players to use. Just like Cryptic did with the Romulans. Just like Cryptic did for even the KDF & Fed ships that weren't canon.
Which does nothing to get around the problem.
There are playable dominion ships in game now (plus boffs, doffs, ground gear, and clothing options but we'll leave those aside to discuss this one issue). Cryptic uses them to drive promo events. If cryptic released watered down faction versions (a must to justify to the original buyers why they should have bothered with all that time/ec/money) they will be directly undermining the marketability of those ships (because "special" players would be indistinguishable from the new "bug ship wanabes." You may have the better ship but when your Ferarri 458 effectively becomes no more special than a Toyota Carolla that performance is not going to amount to the same human motivation) and the dominion faction itself.
Existing owners wouldn't be happy (its no longer their club), new players wouldn't be happy (why should the dominion get inferior versions of their own ships?), and cryptic wouldn't be happy (they probably wouldn't be able to hope from much in future bug-ship promos and their work towards a new faction will be constrained by the limiting influences of broad social complications.)
Its a big sociological problem that other factions simply don't have (ex. Borg, Kremin) or have but to a much lesser extent (ex. Cardassians, Ferengi.) Now that may not prevent the technical act of putting Dominion ships (plus new ones) in game as a new faction (which seems to be the perspective you're approaching this from) but it does make it a far less promising choice (when you take that act and put it in context).
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Existing owners wouldn't be happy (its no longer their club),
Remember when they released a second bug lockbox? With a bug ship that was better than the original? Yeah. While I'm not saying they don't care at all about people being happy, the example I just mentioned shows they care *more* about making money. So if they think releasing a Dom faction will make them money, you better believe they will do it, regardless of whether it will upset owners of the existing lockbox ships.
thats probably taken out of context like the last thread about this same thing a few weeks ago, prophet could mean anything. it doesnt mean its those "wormhole aliens" as there is no context to put to it.
Nah. It's simple reading comprehension.
The text said "Prophets," not "prophets." Cryptic's fumbling of the English language not withstanding, the capital letter signifies that she was referring to THE Prophets... it would be like arguing someone's use of "Q" in the 25th century. In the Star Trek universe, both "Q" and "Prophets" mean something very specific, so mentioning either phrase in such a way points towards a very specific definition.
With that said... Sela just said she went through "the Prophets' gate." That likely means she escaped through the wormhole, nothing more. It's a HUGE jump to say that the Dominion are returning... certainly possible, but I'm not making THAT assumption based on this one clue.
Remember when they released a second bug lockbox? With a bug ship that was better than the original? Yeah. While I'm not saying they don't care at all about people being happy, the example I just mentioned shows they care *more* about making money. So if they think releasing a Dom faction will make them money, you better believe they will do it, regardless of whether it will upset owners of the existing lockbox ships.
Its not a valid example though. They created an even more special version of a special ship (which going back to the Ferrari example is a common thing). That's a very, very, very different scenario to reducing that special ship to a mass-market staple.
And if you argue that cryptic will just follow the money you have to argue for Borg, not dominion since that provides the same benefits of a high profile former enemy faction but without compromising a highly monetized promotional event. The only question there is liberated boffs and characters, but unlike the Dominion example its a complementary relationship between related groups. They [because they're just people] can exist side by side without detracting form one another.
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Its not a valid example though. They created an even more special version of a special ship. That's so very much NOT the same as creating a mass market version.
I never said it was exactly the same thing. The point is that they have demonstrated they will choose money even if it upsets current lock box owners.
And if you argue that cryptic will just follow the money you have to argue for borg, not dominion since that provides the same benefits of a high profile former enemy faction but without compromising a highly monetized promotioanl event.
If a Dom faction happens, they will simply create a new lockbox to take it's place as their highly monetized promotional event. Maybe a liberated Borg lockbox
I never said it was exactly the same thing. The point is that they have demonstrated they will choose money even if it upsets current lock box owners.
But it was money that replaced on exclusive group with another exclusive group. Money will justify all actions a business takes (directly or indirectly) but its not quite so simple as + means good. There is an all important social context that must be considered (and some things, though profitable, may not lead to as constructive an end when subjected to the population.)
If a Dom faction happens, they will simply create a new lockbox to take it's place as their highly monetized promotional event. Maybe a liberated Borg lockbox
Lol, possibly but its a shot in the dark to replace the known bug ship promo with a borg ship. If cryptic has something up its sleeve then it could a risk be worth taking, but if that's the case then expanding that trick out to a generally accessible faction is the way to go.
Its probably worth speculating at this point (to drive home the problems) on just what a dominion faction would bring in terms of new ship abilities, ground mechanics, boffs, and captain abilities. Even an unexercised imagination could create a wealth of new stuff for the borg...but the Dominion? They've got good ship design, stealth modules, and addiction. Where's the potential for that (which isn't already in game, especially the addiction)? I guess you could try to make something out of the Vorta's leadership role but that's nearing the territory of the Command specialization.
Ultimately, the dominion is just more of the same. Ships, approach, maybe even the story too (somewhere in the middle of KDF, RR, and FED). Its not the best that we could hope for in a new faction. It would be better than nothing, but there's alternatives worth considering first.
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But it was money to create a new set of the same thing. Money will justify all actions a business takes (directly or indirectly) but its not quite so simple as + means good. There is an all important context that must be considered.
Lol, possibly but its a shot in the dark to replace the known bug ship promo with a borg ship. If cryptic has something up its sleeve then it could a risk be worth taking, but if that's the case then expanding it out to a generally accessible faction is the way to go.
Its probably worth at this point speculating on just what a dominion faction would bring in terms of new ship abilities, ground mechanics, boffs, and captain abilities. Even an unexercised imagination could create a wealth of new stuff for the borg...but the Dominion? They've got good ship design and stealth modules. Where's the potential for that (which isn't already in game)?
First things first, I think a Cardie faction will happen before the Dominion. At least, if this is any indication. Second things second, I posted a thread earlier this week about how to solve the "lockbox problem" we have been discussing in the last few posts, and surprisingly most people basically said 'TRIBBLE the lockboxes and don't worry about it'. I would still prefer they take some steps to appease the existing lockbox owners, but I have no doubt they will not release a faction without it's most iconic ships, whether that upsets current lockbox owners or not.
I think the risk is in assuming that PLAYABLE Dominion is the result. It's Sela making contact with them, after all.
Geko has discussed playable Dominion on podcasts and Twitter. A big problem is that Dominion ships (almost all of them) exist in lockboxes.
I've also been thinking about whether maybe the Founders are an offshoot of the Preservers. They have the most advanced genetic tech in all of Star Trek and look fairly similar. (Plus, you have an overlapping actress.)
You have Sela going to them. And as much as she's our ally right now, a doublecross is always inevitable with her. And not only is she seeking their aid, she's making a big deal about how "at home" she is no longer having to think about being half-human or half-Romulan.
And STO needs a villain after the Iconians.
My immediate thought is this:
The Dominion will help us defeat the Iconians... and will reap massive spoils from the final battle. We may discover that the Founders were some kind of Preserver criminals or offshoot or failed experiment.
The next battle will be against the HurQ and the Dominion.
And what we may get within the Dominion is a Civil War/uprising. The playable group would be rebels, perhaps answering to Odo and/or Laas?
This enables new ships. It also enables a choice of species, which would be harder with the Dominion proper. (Do we play a Jem'Hadar First, Vorta, or Changeling? Skrreans? Yaderans? Son'a?)
In the proper Dominion, which we play would probably matter too much. But an offshoot could be created.)
My inkling is that we might see something like Breen as the lifer perk species or part of an expansion mega-bundle. And that any proper faction will be EX-Dominion since an expansion needs a couple of villains.
First things first, I think a Cardie faction will happen before the Dominion. At least, if this is any indication. Second things second, I posted a thread earlier this week about how to solve the "lockbox problem" we have been discussing in the last few posts, and surprisingly most people basically said 'TRIBBLE the lockboxes and don't worry about it'. I would still prefer they take some steps to appease the existing lockbox owners, but I have no doubt they will not release a faction without it's most iconic ships.
Well...
1. forums are almost never representative (especially of reality given the inherent problems of stastical inadequacy and sampling bias. The validity of an argument here has to come through independent reason, not plurality)
...and...
2. releasing without lock box ships isn't the problem. Its all in the conveniently disregarded "what about those existing ships?" (which is one of the reasons why forums aren't representative, reasoning becomes highly selective when like minds self-aggregate to discuss mutually desired concepts.) Cryptic could easily do it, ignoring the problem is the simplest solution. But its still going to have some affect on the population. Its going to complicate the release. To most its probalby not going to be a deal breaker but its a sociological knot not tied by the alternatives (which IMO have much greater gameplay possibilities.)
Though online polls support the dominion faction those are coming from a very different place than their actual implementation versus other ideas. Being Weyoun is a much more appealing idea than being the drone on the left, but developing the two into workable factions has to deal with all those problems that answering the question off the cuff doesn't want to deal with (and we may find that being Weyoun in STO feels a hell of a lot like being any other captain, where the-drone-on-the-left or a Kremin time-lord has a wealth of new possibilities.)
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1. forums are almost never representative (especially of reality given the inherent problems of stastical inadequacy and sampling bias. The validity of an argument here has to come through independent reason, not plurality)
And yet, Cryptic seems to think they are representative enough to base development decisions off of them. Before we got Legacy of Romulus, they had a forum poll asking what next faction people wanted, and Romulans won by far. They also recently had a forum poll about what type of content we wanted to see developed, and exploration won. Let's hope that actually pays off! Of course, an official poll posted by Cryptic will get far more attention and votes than a user created poll, so I would love for them to do a new 'next faction' poll themselves, but TBH I have no doubt the Cardassians will win that as well.
My problem is, and I think it was addressed in S6, the changelings would be too difficult to implement as a Player Character.
i'm hedging my bets toward Cardassians.
If they base the decision on faction popularity with the players, it will almost certainly be the Cardassians. However, if the decision is based more on what specific people on the dev team(like Geko) want to happen, I think Liberated Borg is a more likely possibility.
And yet, Cryptic seems to think they are representative enough to base development decisions off of them. Before we got Legacy of Romulus, they had a forum poll asking what next faction people wanted, and Romulans won by far. They also recently had a forum poll about what type of content we wanted to see developed, and exploration won. Let's hope that actually pays off! Of course, an official poll posted by Cryptic will get far more attention and votes than a user created poll, so I would love for them to do a new 'next faction' poll themselves, but TBH I have no doubt the Cardassians will win that as well.
They also polled DQ races people wanted to see, and the Kremin have only been hinted at so far.
I think the stated intention of those polls was checking to see how "on target" cryptic was with at least some part of the thinking portion of the community. Romulans (in almost total confidence) weren't implemented because the forums wanted it. The forums, if anything, suggested that there might be a market for the expansion. Ditto Delta Quadrant.
Its just more data (which can be appreciated as data even if tiny and compromised). We haven't been placed at the fount of the decision making process.
I also do want to emphasize here that my issue is with a Dominion faction (because of their role in contemporary promo events, the number of ships they have in game already, and the amount of other dominion content that's also accessible.) A Cardassian faction is something different (only one ship, its not their strongest, it was back in the first lock box, and there are no authentic cardassian ground assets or officers to use in game.)
Its not my own first choice, but apart from "well how would it be any different to the Romulan Republic arc?" I have no reservations about it.
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If they base the decision on faction popularity with the player, it will almost certainly be the Cardassians. However, if the decision is based more on what specific people on the dev team(like Geko) want to happen, I think Liberated Borg is a more likely possibility.
Ugh....please no,,,,,I see the uber lizard mentioned, and cringe .OP Borg cubes for 5.000 zen. (shudders)
The plot thickens. They still do not call it Dominion, so Cryptic might just trick us... but what other empire with awesome warriors behind a "Prophet's Gate" did Sela fight years ago?
The Romulan Star Empire, of course, fought in the Dominion War. It stands to reason that Sela, part of the military at the time, fought the Dominion.
I also do want to emphasize here that my issue is with a Dominion faction (because of their role in contemporary promo events, the number of ships they have in game already, and the amount of other dominion content that's also accessible.) A Cardassian faction is something different (only one ship, its not their strongest, it was back in the first lock box, and there are no authentic cardassian ground assets or officers to use in game.)
Don't get me wrong; I completely understand your argument and actually agree with your logic. I simply don't think that logic will stop them from making a Dom faction if they think it will make enough money to justify the development.
The plot thickens. They still do not call it Dominion, so Cryptic might just trick us... but what other empire with awesome warriors behind a "Prophet's Gate" did Sela fight years ago?
The Romulan Star Empire, of course, fought in the Dominion War. It stands to reason that Sela, part of the military at the time, fought the Dominion.
1. No question really, it is the Dominion (obscuring leadership is, more or less, its entire premise.)
2. Based on this and what the Dominion said in the Delta Recruitment event about the Iconians (to paraphrase "don't bother coming to us"), I'm betting T5 is an indignant "well TRIBBLE them anyway." We could still hope for dominion reinforcements in the great final battle of S10 but I think a faction is less likely (because it seems these hints can be contained within independent plot tangents, not broad story arcs.)
3. The imporant part (me thinks) is the shattering of "the Whole" but it probably relates to future developments within S10 (which Sela could only be looking the dominion to support, not bring about.)
Don't get me wrong; I completely understand your argument and actually agree with your logic. I simply don't think that logic will stop them from making a Dom faction if they think it will make enough money to justify the development.
True true, I just doubt they will ever get to that point (without a game-changing plot development or system add-on.)
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Sounds like a reasonable plan.
No different to what they've already done with Liverated Borg and Talaxian, not to mention all the Bridge Officers from otherwise non-aligned species. Then you've got all the alien starships being flown by Starfleet, Imperialists or Republicans.
As pointless or wrong as it may be, it is, and people will put money into a Dominion character.
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The term "Gate" can be used in the same way the Bajoran Wormhole acts. A gate limits and controls traffic between its two sides. Exactly the same way the wormhole has acted.
Anyways, in the Gamma Quadrant, the Dominion "is it." It's the big, huge, dominating power there. The Gamma Quadrant isn't like the Alpha, Beta, and even Delta Quadrants. It isn't divided up between a fairly evenly powered entities. It's not divided up in space in the same way traditional Trek stomping grounds are between the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire in canon or including the Romulan Republic from STO. The Gamma Quadrant is dominated by the Dominion.
Sela's second transmission also makes hint of garnering support for the Iconian War from unexpected places. Most especially to include old enemies. Now, I know in STO we've been fighting EVERYONE, to include even the earlier Federation-Klingon War. But the "old enemies" bit fits very snugly with the last truly major threat that had to be faced: The Dominion in the catastrophic Dominion War. And it just so happens to be where I believe Sela went.
Dominion support would greatly help the Iconian War effort. The Dominion isn't a little fiefdom like the Federation, Klingon Empire, etc. As mentioned before, it dominates a quadrant. Vast military power.
Of course, *IF* the Dominion joins in the war it means a few obvious things:
- Expect to see Dominion fleets being sent to fight alongside the Alliance. If not that, at least fighting the Iconians if they will not be in Alliance control.
- Expect to have Dominion holdings back in the Gamma Quadrant to be attacked also. This also gives a reason for inclusion of more Gamma Quadrant content.
*IF* the Dominion enters the war, that has lots of potential things that could affect the game, depending on what Cryptic wants or is capable of. We're only touching the tip of the iceberg with this thread.
Only the bajorans and Sisco called them prophets.
It is possible she is referring to them.
Possible.
When I hear it?
The Ferengi. :P
(which BTW I would take over a cardassian/dominion faction/expansion. There's something fundamentally new about it while the Dom/Cardies is just another flavor of major quadrant power. Let's have something from the little man for a change...)
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Yah but of possible mini-factions there's other, less complicated options than the 3 box-ship Jem'Hadar (ex. borg, Kremin, Ferengi or even something new.)
Perhaps only the Xindi are less likely.
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What's complicated about a supposed Dominion faction? The existing Dominion Lockbox/Event ships? Keep them.
- Whoever has their current Jem'Hadar faction ships: Keep them.
- Generate Vorta, Jem'Hadar player character races, or whatever other Gamma Quadrant ones.
- JHAS/JHEC/JHDC become part of the staple of the Dominion ship lineup, T1-T6. Include the Jem'Hadar Battleship.
- Include canon Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser - These are actually in the game but are extremely rare to see.
- Generate new Dominion ships for players to use. Just like Cryptic did with the Romulans. Just like Cryptic did for even the KDF & Fed ships that weren't canon.
Most of the assets for the foundation of a Dominion faction/mini-faction are already in the game. Most of the canon ships are already ingame. We already have Jem'Hadar and Vorta NPCs and their art assets. We already have Jem'Hadar uniforms and weaponry. The foundation is already in the game for the devs to expand upon them.
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Which does nothing to get around the problem.
There are playable dominion ships in game now (plus boffs, doffs, ground gear, and clothing options but we'll leave those aside to discuss this one issue). Cryptic uses them to drive promo events. If cryptic released watered down faction versions (a must to justify to the original buyers why they should have bothered with all that time/ec/money) they will be directly undermining the marketability of those ships (because "special" players would be indistinguishable from the new "bug ship wanabes." You may have the better ship but when your Ferarri 458 effectively becomes no more special than a Toyota Carolla that performance is not going to amount to the same human motivation) and the dominion faction itself.
Existing owners wouldn't be happy (its no longer their club), new players wouldn't be happy (why should the dominion get inferior versions of their own ships?), and cryptic wouldn't be happy (they probably wouldn't be able to hope from much in future bug-ship promos and their work towards a new faction will be constrained by the limiting influences of broad social complications.)
Its a big sociological problem that other factions simply don't have (ex. Borg, Kremin) or have but to a much lesser extent (ex. Cardassians, Ferengi.) Now that may not prevent the technical act of putting Dominion ships (plus new ones) in game as a new faction (which seems to be the perspective you're approaching this from) but it does make it a far less promising choice (when you take that act and put it in context).
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Remember when they released a second bug lockbox? With a bug ship that was better than the original? Yeah. While I'm not saying they don't care at all about people being happy, the example I just mentioned shows they care *more* about making money. So if they think releasing a Dom faction will make them money, you better believe they will do it, regardless of whether it will upset owners of the existing lockbox ships.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Nah. It's simple reading comprehension.
The text said "Prophets," not "prophets." Cryptic's fumbling of the English language not withstanding, the capital letter signifies that she was referring to THE Prophets... it would be like arguing someone's use of "Q" in the 25th century. In the Star Trek universe, both "Q" and "Prophets" mean something very specific, so mentioning either phrase in such a way points towards a very specific definition.
With that said... Sela just said she went through "the Prophets' gate." That likely means she escaped through the wormhole, nothing more. It's a HUGE jump to say that the Dominion are returning... certainly possible, but I'm not making THAT assumption based on this one clue.
Its not a valid example though. They created an even more special version of a special ship (which going back to the Ferrari example is a common thing). That's a very, very, very different scenario to reducing that special ship to a mass-market staple.
And if you argue that cryptic will just follow the money you have to argue for Borg, not dominion since that provides the same benefits of a high profile former enemy faction but without compromising a highly monetized promotional event. The only question there is liberated boffs and characters, but unlike the Dominion example its a complementary relationship between related groups. They [because they're just people] can exist side by side without detracting form one another.
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I never said it was exactly the same thing. The point is that they have demonstrated they will choose money even if it upsets current lock box owners.
If a Dom faction happens, they will simply create a new lockbox to take it's place as their highly monetized promotional event. Maybe a liberated Borg lockbox
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Pretty much. Again, I'm a little more inclined to believe #1, because of capital-P "Prophets" instead of lower-case-P "prophets."
Fair point, but see above.
Sela is Romulan/human.
But it was money that replaced on exclusive group with another exclusive group. Money will justify all actions a business takes (directly or indirectly) but its not quite so simple as + means good. There is an all important social context that must be considered (and some things, though profitable, may not lead to as constructive an end when subjected to the population.)
Lol, possibly but its a shot in the dark to replace the known bug ship promo with a borg ship. If cryptic has something up its sleeve then it could a risk be worth taking, but if that's the case then expanding that trick out to a generally accessible faction is the way to go.
Its probably worth speculating at this point (to drive home the problems) on just what a dominion faction would bring in terms of new ship abilities, ground mechanics, boffs, and captain abilities. Even an unexercised imagination could create a wealth of new stuff for the borg...but the Dominion? They've got good ship design, stealth modules, and addiction. Where's the potential for that (which isn't already in game, especially the addiction)? I guess you could try to make something out of the Vorta's leadership role but that's nearing the territory of the Command specialization.
Ultimately, the dominion is just more of the same. Ships, approach, maybe even the story too (somewhere in the middle of KDF, RR, and FED). Its not the best that we could hope for in a new faction. It would be better than nothing, but there's alternatives worth considering first.
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First things first, I think a Cardie faction will happen before the Dominion. At least, if this is any indication. Second things second, I posted a thread earlier this week about how to solve the "lockbox problem" we have been discussing in the last few posts, and surprisingly most people basically said 'TRIBBLE the lockboxes and don't worry about it'. I would still prefer they take some steps to appease the existing lockbox owners, but I have no doubt they will not release a faction without it's most iconic ships, whether that upsets current lockbox owners or not.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Damar on a "Wheaties " box.
Geko has discussed playable Dominion on podcasts and Twitter. A big problem is that Dominion ships (almost all of them) exist in lockboxes.
I've also been thinking about whether maybe the Founders are an offshoot of the Preservers. They have the most advanced genetic tech in all of Star Trek and look fairly similar. (Plus, you have an overlapping actress.)
You have Sela going to them. And as much as she's our ally right now, a doublecross is always inevitable with her. And not only is she seeking their aid, she's making a big deal about how "at home" she is no longer having to think about being half-human or half-Romulan.
And STO needs a villain after the Iconians.
My immediate thought is this:
The Dominion will help us defeat the Iconians... and will reap massive spoils from the final battle. We may discover that the Founders were some kind of Preserver criminals or offshoot or failed experiment.
The next battle will be against the HurQ and the Dominion.
And what we may get within the Dominion is a Civil War/uprising. The playable group would be rebels, perhaps answering to Odo and/or Laas?
This enables new ships. It also enables a choice of species, which would be harder with the Dominion proper. (Do we play a Jem'Hadar First, Vorta, or Changeling? Skrreans? Yaderans? Son'a?)
In the proper Dominion, which we play would probably matter too much. But an offshoot could be created.)
My inkling is that we might see something like Breen as the lifer perk species or part of an expansion mega-bundle. And that any proper faction will be EX-Dominion since an expansion needs a couple of villains.
Well...
1. forums are almost never representative (especially of reality given the inherent problems of stastical inadequacy and sampling bias. The validity of an argument here has to come through independent reason, not plurality)
...and...
2. releasing without lock box ships isn't the problem. Its all in the conveniently disregarded "what about those existing ships?" (which is one of the reasons why forums aren't representative, reasoning becomes highly selective when like minds self-aggregate to discuss mutually desired concepts.) Cryptic could easily do it, ignoring the problem is the simplest solution. But its still going to have some affect on the population. Its going to complicate the release. To most its probalby not going to be a deal breaker but its a sociological knot not tied by the alternatives (which IMO have much greater gameplay possibilities.)
Though online polls support the dominion faction those are coming from a very different place than their actual implementation versus other ideas. Being Weyoun is a much more appealing idea than being the drone on the left, but developing the two into workable factions has to deal with all those problems that answering the question off the cuff doesn't want to deal with (and we may find that being Weyoun in STO feels a hell of a lot like being any other captain, where the-drone-on-the-left or a Kremin time-lord has a wealth of new possibilities.)
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And yet, Cryptic seems to think they are representative enough to base development decisions off of them. Before we got Legacy of Romulus, they had a forum poll asking what next faction people wanted, and Romulans won by far. They also recently had a forum poll about what type of content we wanted to see developed, and exploration won. Let's hope that actually pays off! Of course, an official poll posted by Cryptic will get far more attention and votes than a user created poll, so I would love for them to do a new 'next faction' poll themselves, but TBH I have no doubt the Cardassians will win that as well.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
i'm hedging my bets toward Cardassians.
If they base the decision on faction popularity with the players, it will almost certainly be the Cardassians. However, if the decision is based more on what specific people on the dev team(like Geko) want to happen, I think Liberated Borg is a more likely possibility.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
They also polled DQ races people wanted to see, and the Kremin have only been hinted at so far.
I think the stated intention of those polls was checking to see how "on target" cryptic was with at least some part of the thinking portion of the community. Romulans (in almost total confidence) weren't implemented because the forums wanted it. The forums, if anything, suggested that there might be a market for the expansion. Ditto Delta Quadrant.
Its just more data (which can be appreciated as data even if tiny and compromised). We haven't been placed at the fount of the decision making process.
I also do want to emphasize here that my issue is with a Dominion faction (because of their role in contemporary promo events, the number of ships they have in game already, and the amount of other dominion content that's also accessible.) A Cardassian faction is something different (only one ship, its not their strongest, it was back in the first lock box, and there are no authentic cardassian ground assets or officers to use in game.)
Its not my own first choice, but apart from "well how would it be any different to the Romulan Republic arc?" I have no reservations about it.
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Ugh....please no,,,,,I see the uber lizard mentioned, and cringe .OP Borg cubes for 5.000 zen. (shudders)
T4 message:
http://i.imgur.com/R4NufYh.png
The plot thickens. They still do not call it Dominion, so Cryptic might just trick us... but what other empire with awesome warriors behind a "Prophet's Gate" did Sela fight years ago?
The Romulan Star Empire, of course, fought in the Dominion War. It stands to reason that Sela, part of the military at the time, fought the Dominion.
Don't get me wrong; I completely understand your argument and actually agree with your logic. I simply don't think that logic will stop them from making a Dom faction if they think it will make enough money to justify the development.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
1. No question really, it is the Dominion (obscuring leadership is, more or less, its entire premise.)
2. Based on this and what the Dominion said in the Delta Recruitment event about the Iconians (to paraphrase "don't bother coming to us"), I'm betting T5 is an indignant "well TRIBBLE them anyway." We could still hope for dominion reinforcements in the great final battle of S10 but I think a faction is less likely (because it seems these hints can be contained within independent plot tangents, not broad story arcs.)
3. The imporant part (me thinks) is the shattering of "the Whole" but it probably relates to future developments within S10 (which Sela could only be looking the dominion to support, not bring about.)
True true, I just doubt they will ever get to that point (without a game-changing plot development or system add-on.)
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