I'm sorry you feel that I've been skirting the line by admitting that I haven't been experiencing the lag and disconnection issues others have reported but knowing who isn't having problems is just as important as knowing who is. It helps the devs find patterns in their datamining and narrow down whats causing issues.
And I'm more than willing to speak up when an issue negatively impacts my game play like the always present vanishing boff bug.
Actually, I'm the one who should be sorry for lumping you in with the others as your overall posts, when taken together as a whole the past months this has been going on, have been pretty fair compared to many. I misspoke and apologize.
When I think about it...if you're the player that I think you are from CoH with that awesome scrapper build back in the day, I would've imagined you being in STF's like crazy here just for the sake of honing your ship builds if anything else. Are you really not having any stuttering/rubberbanding problems in STF's?
There are far too many people being affected by the lag for it simply to be "users ISP is TRIBBLE" sentiment. Its as simple as that. Couple this with the admission by Cryptic that there ARE issues with the servers affecting some people then it is AS CLEAR AS DAY.
I have been affected since Delta Rising, like many many others.
If you haven't been affected, congratulations. However, don't barge in here casting aspersions on players or placing blame on us. It doesn't work, and just makes you look a fool for being ill-informed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
I play pretty much every day, and in the last month or so I have not had any crash to desktop while playing. I have gotten an error after exit a couple of times where the client did not shut down cleanly, which just meant clicking that Windows alert.
I also haven't had any issues logging in using the priority queue, except of course for the times when all the server hamsters got turned into training manuals (grind, grind, squeak squeak).
In case it matters I have an intel i5 CPU, 8 GB RAM, nvidia GTX 680, Windows 7 64-bit, SSD drives. Everything is running at stock speed and I haven't done any so-called optimizations like deleting my swap file or trying to shut down normal services and processes.
So, to those getting crashes: do you overclock? Try stopping that. Do you try Windows OS optimization tricks you read on some site? Try stopping that too.
Lag is another story. I've mostly been doing solo PVE this last month but I have noticed a little of it in red alerts.
Any time someone complains about desync in path of exile I just send them a video of ISA with command ships. If you understand this comment, you'd understand how hilarious of a situation this is.
Lags here to stay folks. Unless cryptic can suddenly devote half their team to redoing the server architecture to prevent the insanely bad desync that command traits cause, this is the way the game will be from now on.
But it's ok, the 3-5 people left defending cryptic at this point will blame it on cognetco and spam every thread about it with 2-5 posts per page.
There are far too many people being affected by the lag for it simply to be "users ISP is TRIBBLE" sentiment. Its as simple as that. Couple this with the admission by Cryptic that there ARE issues with the servers affecting some people then it is AS CLEAR AS DAY.
I have been affected since Delta Rising, like many many others.
If you haven't been affected, congratulations. However, don't barge in here casting aspersions on players or placing blame on us. It doesn't work, and just makes you look a fool for being ill-informed.
not to mention folks posted a tracert showing packet loss at final hop ( i.e. Cryptic's servers)
besides : noone changed anthing whatsoever ( the only thing changing was release of season 10 and subsequent patches ) . If everything works fine before an update - of any piece of software - and turns to c**p after said update , chance of that update - and nothing else - being flawed is 99.99 %
This can happen a lot if you go to the exchange on ESD then after a while, turn around and just run out of the exchange. You will see the map which supposedly is behind you (when facing the exchange consoles) isn't drawn out and takes some time to draw back in.
This happen to me multiple times, I know for a fact it is not our problem all this lag and TRIBBLE this game is causing. This is why I seem so offensive, mad, frustrated and up to grab anyone by the nut sacks and totally rotate them 360 degrees.
The point I was making is that when that happens it appears to be a CLIENT-side issue and not a server issue.
when my fleet does missions we see this lag in all 5 players...Its like a slide show type of lag frame by frame
our fleet team is from all over the country 2 of with are 15 miles from cryptic HQ is SF
Were in communication with each other all all 5 members experence this lag mainly space content like infected or Kit or cure Advanced space
When we do ground we see a lot less lag and it is not as severe like BHE
Also none of us experenced this type of constintsnt lag until that first tuesday patch 5 or 6 weeks ago...Thats when it started to be noticed by us
Yeah, that sounds like it might be a client-side issue. One of the categories of problems Cryptic is currently examining is the possibility that part of the issue lies with team-buff powers interacting with each other.
Yeah, that sounds like it might be a client-side issue. One of the categories of problems Cryptic is currently examining is the possibility that part of the issue lies with team-buff powers interacting with each other.
It is not client side.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
Ok, so here is something I simply don't understand. If the game is bugged so bad it's unplayable, and the problem is on Cryptic's end, not the user's, then how are so many people in game playing? Why aren't we all having the same problem as the OP?
I just have to say wow. You really think that you have a better system then any of us? maybe some of us but to sit there an claim that you have better tech then all of us is frankly delusional.
Not knowing his system, I can't speak for specifics, however if he's an obsessive benchmarker like me, and he gets, say, 99th percentile via 3DMark, he can safely say that he has a better PC than almost anyone in STO - that range is occupied by systems that can put your average Falcon Northwest to shame.
Heck, at 97th percentile on 3DMark I feel I can safely say that my PC is superior, for gaming, to *most* of the people currently playing STO - not all, but most.
As to the rest of it - the lag is insane (for me) since S10 - to those saying they don't experience it...I envy you - you must be living on top of an internet backbone. When ISA lags to crud, I always ask the rest of the team - in probably a hundred or so runs since S10, when it lags for me, it lags for the entire team. So I really don't have any ideas what would cause the lag to be completely nonexistent for some people and everyone they know. It doesn't really make any sense.
It has been said that "things outside of Cryptic's control can't be blamed on Cryptic". The entire game and user experience is under Cryptic's control. If your machine and internet connection are within posted specs to run STO, you should be able to run the game at an acceptable level. There are enough MMOs out there where most gamers know what an acceptable level is. STO has a poorly performing graphics engine. STO has netcode and server code and hardware that was never designed to manage the levels of traffic that newer powers are generating. STO is not up to snuff with a triple-A MMO experience - it just isn't, and it really never was.
I enjoy it, and I still play it, but lets not kid ourselves - it really won't go down in gaming history as a great MMO, in performance or gameplay.
These complaint threads *are* pointless, really, but they also give us a place to vent when the server kicks us and our entire teams out of STF instances repeatedly until we give up.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
Ok, so here is something I simply don't understand. If the game is bugged so bad it's unplayable, and the problem is on Cryptic's end, not the user's, then how are so many people in game playing? Why aren't we all having the same problem as the OP?
Because the game lags in certain area's, be it maps, ship set ups, etc. I am a very casual player here, because I seldom play group content, almost always on normal, do not use post DR features etc. Yet I do see lag in the form of freezes, hicks, stuttering. Overall the game runs very fine for me, but some DR patrols map are so laggy that there is no enjoyment. The other day that anomaly minigame, the wave, failed, because my keyboard responded so slow. I have failed that about 4 or 5 times in my 3 years of STO and I pick up mats on every map.
Fact is that Cryptic has a problem of seeing these problems. Do they even test?
Please do explain how you came to this conclusion.
Occams Razor: All things being equal, the simplest answer is usually the right one.
Which problem is more likely.. A group of random players in a match all having the same exact issue on multiple different rigs and network connections OR All players connections and information routed and handled in one particular way by Cryptic causing major problems?
Couple this with the admission of Cryptic that they're having technical issues, and you have your answer.
Therefore, not client side.
Is this to your satisfaction?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
Occams Razor: All things being equal, the simplest answer is usually the right one.
Which problem is more likely.. A group of random players in a match all having the same exact issue on multiple different rigs and network connections OR All players connections and information routed and handled in one particular way by Cryptic causing major problems?
Couple this with the admission of Cryptic that they're having technical issues, and you have your answer.
Therefore, not client side.
Is this to your satisfaction?
No. Occam's Razor cannot be used to PROVE whether something is correct or incorrect, merely to demonstrate which of two possibilities is most likely.
And as history has shown us.... Occam's Razor is far from reliable. The world is a strange place that mocks human efforts to divide it into categories.
But back to the technical issue. All client side glitches have a cause. There was one a while back where a certain clickie power would cause instant easily repeatable crashes. But it's still a client side bug. Was it a coding glitch in the game? yes, but it was part of the game client, not the server.
And a similar issue is a potential cause of the weird lag and is under investigation right now.
Not at all. I completely believe the OP is having the problems he describes. What I don't understand is how the problem can be completely on Cryptic's end, yet not be affecting me as well. If the problem is completely on Cryptic's end, how can I and thousands of other people log in with no problem, yet the OP can't?
and that is most certainly enough in addition to Cryptics own admission of blame. Sorry, but you're on the losing side of this issue!
your use of definitive articles suggests to me that you have not considered the actual breadth of "the lag issue" and thus have not realized that it's actually several otherwise unconnected things.
If you forgot... the Cryptic post had a list of possible causes not just one.
your use of definitive articles suggests to me that you have not considered the actual breadth of "the lag issue" and thus have not realized that it's actually several otherwise unconnected things.
If you forgot... the Cryptic post had a list of possible causes not just one.
It was explicitly stated that one of the issues was significantly expensive demands being put onto the server by traits/powers which has already been proven to be the case,
I mean good lord man, either you have white knight syndrome or don't see the patently obvious.
Cryptic admitted it.
Community members have submitted traceroutes identifying one area of massive packetloss.
Community members have submitted videos of significant lag in relation to command powers and traits.
Yet its probably client side? Yeah okay then..
Its at this stage I really have to question your motives.....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
It was explicitly stated that one of the issues was significantly expensive demands being put onto the server by traits/powers which has already been proven to be the case,
I mean good lord man, either you have white knight syndrome or don't see the patently obvious.
Cryptic admitted it.
Community members have submitted traceroutes identifying one area of massive packetloss.
Community members have submitted videos of significant lag in relation to command powers and traits.
Yet its probably client side? Yeah okay then..
Its at this stage I really have to question your motives.....
There is no doubt this game has it's share of bugs, and those bugs are on Cryptic's end to fix. However, there is a difference between bugs like you are talking about, the the OP not being able to even log into the game. And my question is, how can the problem the OP is experiencing be on Cryptic's end, but not be affecting me and thousands of other people who are able to log in with no problem?
There is no doubt this game has it's share of bugs, and those bugs are on Cryptic's end to fix. However, there is a difference between bugs like you are talking about, the the OP not being able to even log into the game. And my question is, how can the problem the OP is experiencing be on Cryptic's end, but not be affecting me and thousands of other people who are able to log in with no problem?
Because there isn't one physical big server handling everyone's information and data is handled in different ways in regards to location too. Neither of these are client side. In addition to lag, i also had log in issues for a few days, but thankfully it didnt progress.
There could be any one of a number of causes. Faulty hardware, dying hardware, too much data to handle at peak times, bad clusters, throttling.. etc
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
your use of definitive articles suggests to me that you have not considered the actual breadth of "the lag issue" and thus have not realized that it's actually several otherwise unconnected things.
If you forgot... the Cryptic post had a list of possible causes not just one.
Between tests by casuals to hardcore players & eggheads and eventually an admission by one of the Cryptic leads, multiple causes have been found that fall on Cryptic whether it be their server or their crappy-code client-side. Players have re-verified, reinstalled, used proxies, updated their drivers, rolled back their drivers, reinstalled their drivers, tweaked their internet settings, tweaked their security/firewall settings, tweaked their task manager, bugged their ISP, bugged CogentCo since some of them actually work with/for for them, and probably another handful of different things to try to handle this on their end...to no avail.
I don't know why this discussion has gone to client-side vs server side when the evidence points to it being something that Cryptic has more direct responsibility for. Whether they p00ped in the dinner bowl or p00ped in the stew, either way the meal is most likely ruined by something they did.
This is it exactly. Casuals would never notice lag because they are never in instances that have 5-20 ships bristling with buffs and traits to keep track of. And that's fine that they experience no lag so their preferred play style is unhindered. But to turn around a claim it's not a Cryptic issue, that it's the user's fault, is a faulty assumption based on an incomplete experience of the game.
If someone can produce a video of a lag-free run with at least 1 Command ship in their party and a host of other top-end powers, I'd say they have something to their claim that "the problem is on the user end". Until then, the evidence conclusively points to Cryptic.
Anyway, I apologize to the OP for derailing your original question (though usually that's how it goes in General Discussion). My point was mostly that it's likely Cryptic's fault for the inability to log on. I had that briefly a couple weeks ago and it was fixed within a couple days (S10 release). If it's an ongoing problem, your best bet is to make a thread in the Bug Reports section.
The song selection in those vids had me crying! LMAO
Comments
Actually, I'm the one who should be sorry for lumping you in with the others as your overall posts, when taken together as a whole the past months this has been going on, have been pretty fair compared to many. I misspoke and apologize.
When I think about it...if you're the player that I think you are from CoH with that awesome scrapper build back in the day, I would've imagined you being in STF's like crazy here just for the sake of honing your ship builds if anything else. Are you really not having any stuttering/rubberbanding problems in STF's?
I have been affected since Delta Rising, like many many others.
If you haven't been affected, congratulations. However, don't barge in here casting aspersions on players or placing blame on us. It doesn't work, and just makes you look a fool for being ill-informed.
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
I also haven't had any issues logging in using the priority queue, except of course for the times when all the server hamsters got turned into training manuals (grind, grind, squeak squeak).
In case it matters I have an intel i5 CPU, 8 GB RAM, nvidia GTX 680, Windows 7 64-bit, SSD drives. Everything is running at stock speed and I haven't done any so-called optimizations like deleting my swap file or trying to shut down normal services and processes.
So, to those getting crashes: do you overclock? Try stopping that. Do you try Windows OS optimization tricks you read on some site? Try stopping that too.
Lag is another story. I've mostly been doing solo PVE this last month but I have noticed a little of it in red alerts.
Lags here to stay folks. Unless cryptic can suddenly devote half their team to redoing the server architecture to prevent the insanely bad desync that command traits cause, this is the way the game will be from now on.
But it's ok, the 3-5 people left defending cryptic at this point will blame it on cognetco and spam every thread about it with 2-5 posts per page.
not to mention folks posted a tracert showing packet loss at final hop ( i.e. Cryptic's servers)
besides : noone changed anthing whatsoever ( the only thing changing was release of season 10 and subsequent patches ) . If everything works fine before an update - of any piece of software - and turns to c**p after said update , chance of that update - and nothing else - being flawed is 99.99 %
My character Tsin'xing
It is not client side.
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
Not knowing his system, I can't speak for specifics, however if he's an obsessive benchmarker like me, and he gets, say, 99th percentile via 3DMark, he can safely say that he has a better PC than almost anyone in STO - that range is occupied by systems that can put your average Falcon Northwest to shame.
Heck, at 97th percentile on 3DMark I feel I can safely say that my PC is superior, for gaming, to *most* of the people currently playing STO - not all, but most.
As to the rest of it - the lag is insane (for me) since S10 - to those saying they don't experience it...I envy you - you must be living on top of an internet backbone. When ISA lags to crud, I always ask the rest of the team - in probably a hundred or so runs since S10, when it lags for me, it lags for the entire team. So I really don't have any ideas what would cause the lag to be completely nonexistent for some people and everyone they know. It doesn't really make any sense.
It has been said that "things outside of Cryptic's control can't be blamed on Cryptic". The entire game and user experience is under Cryptic's control. If your machine and internet connection are within posted specs to run STO, you should be able to run the game at an acceptable level. There are enough MMOs out there where most gamers know what an acceptable level is. STO has a poorly performing graphics engine. STO has netcode and server code and hardware that was never designed to manage the levels of traffic that newer powers are generating. STO is not up to snuff with a triple-A MMO experience - it just isn't, and it really never was.
I enjoy it, and I still play it, but lets not kid ourselves - it really won't go down in gaming history as a great MMO, in performance or gameplay.
These complaint threads *are* pointless, really, but they also give us a place to vent when the server kicks us and our entire teams out of STF instances repeatedly until we give up.
Because the game lags in certain area's, be it maps, ship set ups, etc. I am a very casual player here, because I seldom play group content, almost always on normal, do not use post DR features etc. Yet I do see lag in the form of freezes, hicks, stuttering. Overall the game runs very fine for me, but some DR patrols map are so laggy that there is no enjoyment. The other day that anomaly minigame, the wave, failed, because my keyboard responded so slow. I have failed that about 4 or 5 times in my 3 years of STO and I pick up mats on every map.
Fact is that Cryptic has a problem of seeing these problems. Do they even test?
Occams Razor: All things being equal, the simplest answer is usually the right one.
Which problem is more likely.. A group of random players in a match all having the same exact issue on multiple different rigs and network connections OR All players connections and information routed and handled in one particular way by Cryptic causing major problems?
Couple this with the admission of Cryptic that they're having technical issues, and you have your answer.
Therefore, not client side.
Is this to your satisfaction?
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
And as history has shown us.... Occam's Razor is far from reliable. The world is a strange place that mocks human efforts to divide it into categories.
But back to the technical issue. All client side glitches have a cause. There was one a while back where a certain clickie power would cause instant easily repeatable crashes. But it's still a client side bug. Was it a coding glitch in the game? yes, but it was part of the game client, not the server.
And a similar issue is a potential cause of the weird lag and is under investigation right now.
My character Tsin'xing
Not at all. I completely believe the OP is having the problems he describes. What I don't understand is how the problem can be completely on Cryptic's end, yet not be affecting me as well. If the problem is completely on Cryptic's end, how can I and thousands of other people log in with no problem, yet the OP can't?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Assuming that's correct, whose problem is that?
It's not the player's problem; people simply quit playing or refuse to spend money until (if?) the issues get resolved - Cryptic's loss.
Therefore, regardless of whose fault the problem actually is, it lies squarely at Cryptic's feet to get it fixed, one way or another.
and that is most certainly enough in addition to Cryptics own admission of blame. Sorry, but you're on the losing side of this issue!
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
If you forgot... the Cryptic post had a list of possible causes not just one.
My character Tsin'xing
It was explicitly stated that one of the issues was significantly expensive demands being put onto the server by traits/powers which has already been proven to be the case,
I mean good lord man, either you have white knight syndrome or don't see the patently obvious.
Cryptic admitted it.
Community members have submitted traceroutes identifying one area of massive packetloss.
Community members have submitted videos of significant lag in relation to command powers and traits.
Yet its probably client side? Yeah okay then..
Its at this stage I really have to question your motives.....
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
There is no doubt this game has it's share of bugs, and those bugs are on Cryptic's end to fix. However, there is a difference between bugs like you are talking about, the the OP not being able to even log into the game. And my question is, how can the problem the OP is experiencing be on Cryptic's end, but not be affecting me and thousands of other people who are able to log in with no problem?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Because there isn't one physical big server handling everyone's information and data is handled in different ways in regards to location too. Neither of these are client side. In addition to lag, i also had log in issues for a few days, but thankfully it didnt progress.
There could be any one of a number of causes. Faulty hardware, dying hardware, too much data to handle at peak times, bad clusters, throttling.. etc
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
So, why don't you come over and have a go on my system?
I guess, then we would have a fair judgement.
Between tests by casuals to hardcore players & eggheads and eventually an admission by one of the Cryptic leads, multiple causes have been found that fall on Cryptic whether it be their server or their crappy-code client-side. Players have re-verified, reinstalled, used proxies, updated their drivers, rolled back their drivers, reinstalled their drivers, tweaked their internet settings, tweaked their security/firewall settings, tweaked their task manager, bugged their ISP, bugged CogentCo since some of them actually work with/for for them, and probably another handful of different things to try to handle this on their end...to no avail.
I don't know why this discussion has gone to client-side vs server side when the evidence points to it being something that Cryptic has more direct responsibility for. Whether they p00ped in the dinner bowl or p00ped in the stew, either way the meal is most likely ruined by something they did.
It is likely to be inbetween connections budging up.
The song selection in those vids had me crying! LMAO