I think it's more that by this point the question is a dead, dead horse that was dead long before this even went live. And it should be pretty abundantly clear by now that the location of Sol is not going to change.
I'm as big of a ST nerd as anyone, but there are bigger fish to fry than this, and it feels to me like a huge waste of everyone's time--especially the devs, whom I would frankly rather spend that time improving the game instead of feeling like they need to address this tempest in a teapot.
I don't think people honestly expect it to change - stuff that made it holodeck never changed in the history of this game. However, the question is a legitimate one and it will be brought up again. Of course it doesn't break the game, but sensitive discrepancies between on-screen reference and the game that claims to represent that on-screen referenced material will cause mild confusion. In the old maps nobody really noticed as the quadrants were hardly referenced in name at all, but now it says clearly "Earth (Sol)" and "Beta Quadrant" - of course people will now scratch their heads.
Wether or not there are "bigger fish to fry" isn't really important, I think. I mean there's always something more important at hand, in the end anything in STO is non essential after all.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I wonder if it would have been possible to put entry points for Sol in both Alpha and Beta, and have players who've progresses to the Alpha Quadrant stuff in game have buttons on the UI in Sol system space to warp out to either of those entry points the way someone at the Academy can beam up to multiple destinations...
Not a request. Just musing. Though the layout of the map leaves no spot for the Alpha Quadrant Sol entry point.
as someone mentioned above that paramount, cbs owns the rights to star trek and the novels are not cannon at all it is fiction what is said in the movies, series is cannon but if you want to believe that the novels are cannon more power to you. Plus if the op was a star trek fan he would know that the romulans, klingons and some or most of the other star trek races are in the beta quadrant because that is there home space/area
Sorry but while I completely understand WHY it's like it is...
..it's still feels weird. Technically correct doesn't mean it's intuitive or makes sense.
However the blame isn't on the devs here, the blame is on the writers of the series. The writers played fast and loose with the cartography and the devs don't have that luxury. They HAD to make a map and chose the best option available, even if that option feels weird and unintuitive.
So, from what I understand of this, STO is going to cause the destruction of everything because Sol is placed differently then the OP says it should be? Do I have that right?
OP, if this "issue" is making you this upset about things, maybe it's time to take a break from the game. Perhaps even a permanent break from the Internet might help you out as well.
1. All of the televisions shows and movies modified or disregarded canon to suit the story. It has been established in canon that the Sol system is on the border of the Alpha Quadrant and Beta Quadrant.
2. The decision to put Earth in the Beta Quadrant may seem to be a slap in the face, but it really isn't. If Earth was placed in the Alpha Quadrant, there would have been an uproar from that as well. Why? Vulcan, Andoria, and Wolf 359 are in the Beta Quadrant. However, all four systems are supposedly to be in the same sector. If Earth would have been placed in the Alpha Quadrant map, it would have been in a different sector than the other three; which I think would have cause more anger. Moving Andoria, Vulcan, and Wolf 359 to the Alpha Quadrant, would have caused the same uproar. So placing Earth in the Beta Quadrant was the best possible decision.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
I wonder if it would have been possible to put entry points for Sol in both Alpha and Beta, and have players who've progresses to the Alpha Quadrant stuff in game have buttons on the UI in Sol system space to warp out to either of those entry points the way someone at the Academy can beam up to multiple destinations...
Not a request. Just musing. Though the layout of the map leaves no spot for the Alpha Quadrant Sol entry point.
I was thinking something similiar, like putting Sol on the edge of the Alpha quadrant and implementing a "warp to" location in the beta quadrant, so you effectively have it in both quadrants. Again, just musing, not demanding or anything, finished assets in STO rarely change
So, from what I understand of this, STO is going to cause the destruction of everything because Sol is placed differently then the OP says it should be? Do I have that right?
OP, if this "issue" is making you this upset about things, maybe it's time to take a break from the game. Perhaps even a permanent break from the Internet might help you out as well.
Then you should read again. You misunderstood the OP entirely, there's not a single word about "the destruction of everything". He/She states that he/she is disappointed because having Sol in the Beta Quadrant feels unintuitive and goes against established canon. And while I disagree with the notion that everything needs to be in the Alpha Quadrant, as Okuda et al.'s maps clearly show, I am with him in the question wether or not Sol is located in the Alpha or Beta quadrant - it's on the edge, but has always been referred to as "Alpha". This doesn't break anything, but it feels odd to some people, that is all.
Don't mmedeatly reject a fellow player that has some kind of concern as a "doomsayer", please.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I was thinking something similiar, like putting Sol on the edge of the Alpha quadrant and implementing a "warp to" location in the beta quadrant, so you effectively have it in both quadrants. Again, just musing, not demanding or anything, finished assets in STO rarely change
OMG, why 2 Sol systems. Why not 2 Qo'nos' as well. Feds get everything.
Well excuse me for having enormous flaws that I don't work on.
The T'kon showed up to see what the Iconians were doing and moved the Sol system into the Beta Quadrant for protection. The T'kon can move entire star systems. It is their thing.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
The idea of finding out Earth is split between Alpha and Beta is completely new to me... I am so used to Alpha Quadrant this and that and expect Earth to not be straddling a line, but firmly in the Alpha Quadrant, period.
Doesn't matter how it gets retconned later in some expanded materials or ****... it does feel off.
However, this game is not even really canon... they could move Earth to the freaking Delta Quadrant like a Dyson Sphere just because a plot demands it... whatevs
On the other hand I am also puzzled at the hostility people experience when they ask the question, as if it was completely unnatural to do so and we all are like "Ah, of course Sol is in the Beta Quadrant. It's been always this way. Silly OP, asking questions."
Except, the OP didn't come in asking questions, they opened with it "is an insult to every fan of Star Trek," continued with a bunch of bunk (yes, bunk... others in this thread have de-bunked the points the OP tried to make), and concluded with speaking for others, and calling it a "HUGE mistake."
This game was built on a franchise that existed long before it. The reason to create a game on an existing franchise by buying the rights to use it, is to get custumers and fans 'built into' the concept that are already fans of the franchise and will therefore be interested in your product. I believe the new Maps designation of Alpha and Beta quadrants is an insult to every fan of Star Trek currently playing your game. It is well known by every viewer of Star Trek TNG, DS9 and VOY and every book reader of the hundreds of Star Trek paperback books that EARTH is in the ALPHA quadrant and ALWAYS has been. The Federation was founded by planets in the Alpha quadrant, the two major threatening powers to the Federation in the ALPHA quadrant are the Kingon and Romulan empires. The BETA quadrant started out being referred to in mission logs when a captain was sent 'out there' away from home, if you or aliens were even farther 'out there' they might be said to be from the gamma or delta quadrants. It is obvious from doing a little research that you based your new map names and placement on Star Trek: Star Charts book which is in turn based on two obscure props; one of which is from the 2009 movie Star Trek directed by JJ Abrams who is well known to not care in the slightest about following canon or continuity and created a time-travel paradox to give himself an excuse to not care about it.
Star Trek: Star Charts is the ONLY reference material to place the federation squarly in the middle of the Alpha and Beta quadrants and the Klingons and Romulans completely in the Beta quadrants and although this is completely wrong and contradicted by countless episodes of DS9 and VOY and paperback books, EVEN THEY don't go as far as to put EARTH (the Sol System) in the beta quadrant! EVERYONE knows that Earth has Always been in the Alpha Quadrant except the devs of Star Trek Online.
According to the producers of Star Trek: DS9, Star Trek: Voyager and countless paperback books some of which were written by Lenord Nimoy and William Shatner: The Federation was founded in the Alpha Quadrant by the Andorians, Humans, Vulcans and Tellarites, with other races like the Rigellians and others joining soon after the foundation. When the Romulans and Klingons joined forces with the Federation against the Dominion in DS9 they called themselves the Alpha Quadrant Alliance. It's very clear by on-screen actions that everyone we see not from the Delta Quadrant (Starfleet, the Vulcans, Klingons, Rommies, Cardies, Bajorans, Ferengi, Betazed...everyone) considers themselves and everything they know to be a part of the Alpha Quadrant. In actual dialogue from Star Trek Voyager and Star Trek DS9 all three races and their goverments have been referred to exclusively as Alpha Quadrant Powers. Ronald D. Moore noted that the "Alpha quadrant is firmly planted in the audience's mind as where the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans all live so I think we'll stick with that nomenclature". Instead of using an obscure reference book that most people in Star Trek that were involved in production of series or books would not agree with, why don't you ask the actors you recently hired to do voice overs which quadrant their characters' home planet was in? They will all say the Alpha Quadrant without exception.
Captain Sulu and the Excelsior spent three years studying gaseous anomalies in the Beta Quadrant per Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered country. Obviously this log entry was to establish that the Excelsior was a deep space exploration vessel and not just trolling around the local systems. Very little has been established about the Beta Quadrant in actual episodes, movies or books approved by the producers of Star Trek. It has been established that the Romulan Empire , the far side of it farthest away from Federation territory expands into the Beta Quadrant. Also, it is presumed that there is a large Borg presence in the Beta Quadrant. And perhaps that the Breen and Tholian territories may expand into the Beta Quadrant. It is well established that most of your maps and systems are all considered by Star Trek to be part of the Alpha Quadrant and that both your two major maps should be called the Alpha Quadrant, the only parts that would not belong are the borg and fluidic space. The entrance to fluidic space clearly belongs in the Delta Quadrant and the Borg could be also moved to the Delta Quadrant since it has a large presence in both Delta and Beta Quadrants. Neither belong anywhere near the systems of the Alpha Quadrant that you have on your Beta Quadrant map.
So, in closing I would like to state that I was actually looking forward to the 'new space' idea and the 'Shaka when the Walls Fell' concept. The IDEA WAS GOOD, the IMPLEMENTATION of that idea showed total disregard for canon and known pre-established 'facts' about the Star Trek Universe. Therefore, it shows little regard for long term fans of the Star Trek franchise. I will never feel comfortable again flying around in the wrong quadrant and visiting planets I have always thought of as part of the Alpha Quadrant. Many of your younger players wont have a problem with this since they didn't grow up with Sisko working with other 'Alpha Quadrant powers' to fight the Dominion or Janeway constantly telling Harry to set course to the 'Alpha Quadrant' to continue their voyage home. But to me it just feels VERY WRONG, and like you don't care about the history of the franchise at all. We old star trek fans don't have a show on TV anymore, the movies that have come out recently don't follow canon at all and are made by a director who couldn't care less. So, we come to Star Trek Online to get our fix of something we have followed since childhood. This is a VERY big disappointment to me and I believe I speak for many others.
I am hoping that you will rectify this HUGE mistake and put the federation or at the very LEAST --THE PLANET EARTH, back into the ALPHA quadrant where it belongs.
"Temba, his arms wide...."
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
Except, the OP didn't come in asking questions, they opened with it "is an insult to every fan of Star Trek," continued with a bunch of bunk (yes, bunk... others in this thread have de-bunked the points the OP tried to make), and concluded with speaking for others, and calling it a "HUGE mistake."
For those who might not remember the OP:
Well, yes and no. I mean yes, everything besides "Sol doesn't belong in the Beta Quadrant" is wrong and disproven. But it comes down to this:
So, in closing I would like to state that I was actually looking forward to the 'new space' idea and the 'Shaka when the Walls Fell' concept. The IDEA WAS GOOD, the IMPLEMENTATION of that idea showed total disregard for canon and known pre-established 'facts' about the Star Trek Universe. Therefore, it shows little regard for long term fans of the Star Trek franchise. I will never feel comfortable again flying around in the wrong quadrant and visiting planets I have always thought of as part of the Alpha Quadrant. Many of your younger players wont have a problem with this since they didn't grow up with Sisko working with other 'Alpha Quadrant powers' to fight the Dominion or Janeway constantly telling Harry to set course to the 'Alpha Quadrant' to continue their voyage home. But to me it just feels VERY WRONG, and like you don't care about the history of the franchise at all. We old star trek fans don't have a show on TV anymore, the movies that have come out recently don't follow canon at all and are made by a director who couldn't care less. So, we come to Star Trek Online to get our fix of something we have followed since childhood. This is a VERY big disappointment to me and I believe I speak for many others.
The implementation a disregard for canon: Arguably true, I'd say. I am at least partially with the OP here.
Little regard for long term fans: Nebulous kind of sentence, but I think I get what the point is and overall I agree (other points do influence my conclusion about that as well, though)
I will never feel comfortable (...) to me it seems (...): Opinion.
"We old star Trek fans (...)": He's actually right. No TV installment left, JJTrek doesn't follow canon as it's a reboot thing and JJ Abrams didn't care about Star Trek, that's documented fact
Star Trek fix and "I believe I speak for others": He assumes he does and at least I can agree with him here. Of course, Sols placement doesn't make or break it but it annoys me as well.
His closing statement doesn't seem all that offensive to me. Granted, I didn't read the "insult to every fan" part, that I disagree with.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Sol is described as straddling the Alpha and Beta Quadrants at the heart of the Federation.
I actually prefer the system to be recorded as being in the Beta Quadrant, for a number of reasons.
1. Primary belligerents in the Federation's history have most often originated in the Beta Quadrant (the Romulans, the Klingons, and first contact with the Borg, to name a few).
2. The largest frontier of the Federation exists in the Beta Quadrant.
3. Three TV series and most of the movies take place in the Beta Quadrant.
4. In-game, all the early missions occur in the Beta Quadrant. Why send players into a region with level 35-45 locations, when the level 1-35 missions are literally just a formality to the right?
About DS9, They always refer to the Alpha Quadrant even when Romulans and Klingons are involved. There are various reason for this.
1. It's easier. Consider how cumbersome it would be to say "Alpha and Beta Quadrants" everytime they talk about the area. It has probably become part of the vernacular to talk about the area as the alpha quadrant.
2. Bajor, Ds9, Cardasia and much of the federation are in the Alpha Quadrant. Most of the time the people talking are in the Alpha Quadrant.
3. It's hardly one quadrant. The area we are talking about is a small portion of each quadrant and could easily fit in a single quadrant. Talking as if the dominion were going to take over 2 quadrants would be a bit grandious.
4. The Klingons have territory in the Alpha quadrant at that time. They took some from the Cardasians.
5. That Alpha Quadrant is key. It is where the wormhole is and if the Dominion take the territories in the the Alpha Quadrent those in the Beta are not far behind.
6. Quadrant lines are irrelevant. They help for designating where places are but they don't really matter. They are imaginary cartography lines.
7. The quadrants may only be how the federation divides the galaxy. The Klingons, Romulans and Dominion may have their own conventions, but it's easier to speak is terms everyone understands.
Its an old joke that I've said many times in the past....
If you want to start an argument discuss Religion, Politics or Star Trek....and I'm surprised there haven't been wars fought over Star Trek.
Since the maps in the game are not canon, and are there simply for Game Play I don't particularly care if there are different from some other source. There are things in trek's real canon that don't make sense at all but the location of star sytems is just one of those things that doesn't register much (for me at least).
I mean, I can understand that from a storytelling perspective they might want to leave that a bit open anddisregard information from the past or canon/non-canon sources.
...and I don't think anything in the JJ movies can be against canon too much since its a reboot/ retcon. (I don'thate them as much as others, but I do have my own issues with them, that perhaps I'll bring up at another time)
I don't know if anyone can claim that something is an insult to every fan. I've been a fan of Star Trek since the early 70s and I've had serious disagreements with other fans. (On my previous account, boy howdy, did we used to fight
in these forums).
This game was built on a franchise that existed long before it. The reason to create a game on an existing franchise by buying the rights to use it, is to get custumers and fans 'built into' the concept that are already fans of the franchise and will therefore be interested in your product. I believe the new Maps designation of Alpha and Beta quadrants is an insult to every fan of Star Trek currently playing your game. It is well known by every viewer of Star Trek TNG, DS9 and VOY and every book reader of the hundreds of Star Trek paperback books that EARTH is in the ALPHA quadrant and ALWAYS has been. The Federation was founded by planets in the Alpha quadrant, the two major threatening powers to the Federation in the ALPHA quadrant are the Kingon and Romulan empires. The BETA quadrant started out being referred to in mission logs when a captain was sent 'out there' away from home, if you or aliens were even farther 'out there' they might be said to be from the gamma or delta quadrants. It is obvious from doing a little research that you based your new map names and placement on Star Trek: Star Charts book which is in turn based on two obscure props; one of which is from the 2009 movie Star Trek directed by JJ Abrams who is well known to not care in the slightest about following canon or continuity and created a time-travel paradox to give himself an excuse to not care about it.
Star Trek: Star Charts is the ONLY reference material to place the federation squarly in the middle of the Alpha and Beta quadrants and the Klingons and Romulans completely in the Beta quadrants and although this is completely wrong and contradicted by countless episodes of DS9 and VOY and paperback books, EVEN THEY don't go as far as to put EARTH (the Sol System) in the beta quadrant! EVERYONE knows that Earth has Always been in the Alpha Quadrant except the devs of Star Trek Online.
According to the producers of Star Trek: DS9, Star Trek: Voyager and countless paperback books some of which were written by Lenord Nimoy and William Shatner: The Federation was founded in the Alpha Quadrant by the Andorians, Humans, Vulcans and Tellarites, with other races like the Rigellians and others joining soon after the foundation. When the Romulans and Klingons joined forces with the Federation against the Dominion in DS9 they called themselves the Alpha Quadrant Alliance. It's very clear by on-screen actions that everyone we see not from the Delta Quadrant (Starfleet, the Vulcans, Klingons, Rommies, Cardies, Bajorans, Ferengi, Betazed...everyone) considers themselves and everything they know to be a part of the Alpha Quadrant. In actual dialogue from Star Trek Voyager and Star Trek DS9 all three races and their goverments have been referred to exclusively as Alpha Quadrant Powers. Ronald D. Moore noted that the "Alpha quadrant is firmly planted in the audience's mind as where the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans all live so I think we'll stick with that nomenclature". Instead of using an obscure reference book that most people in Star Trek that were involved in production of series or books would not agree with, why don't you ask the actors you recently hired to do voice overs which quadrant their characters' home planet was in? They will all say the Alpha Quadrant without exception.
Captain Sulu and the Excelsior spent three years studying gaseous anomalies in the Beta Quadrant per Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered country. Obviously this log entry was to establish that the Excelsior was a deep space exploration vessel and not just trolling around the local systems. Very little has been established about the Beta Quadrant in actual episodes, movies or books approved by the producers of Star Trek. It has been established that the Romulan Empire , the far side of it farthest away from Federation territory expands into the Beta Quadrant. Also, it is presumed that there is a large Borg presence in the Beta Quadrant. And perhaps that the Breen and Tholian territories may expand into the Beta Quadrant. It is well established that most of your maps and systems are all considered by Star Trek to be part of the Alpha Quadrant and that both your two major maps should be called the Alpha Quadrant, the only parts that would not belong are the borg and fluidic space. The entrance to fluidic space clearly belongs in the Delta Quadrant and the Borg could be also moved to the Delta Quadrant since it has a large presence in both Delta and Beta Quadrants. Neither belong anywhere near the systems of the Alpha Quadrant that you have on your Beta Quadrant map.
So, in closing I would like to state that I was actually looking forward to the 'new space' idea and the 'Shaka when the Walls Fell' concept. The IDEA WAS GOOD, the IMPLEMENTATION of that idea showed total disregard for canon and known pre-established 'facts' about the Star Trek Universe. Therefore, it shows little regard for long term fans of the Star Trek franchise. I will never feel comfortable again flying around in the wrong quadrant and visiting planets I have always thought of as part of the Alpha Quadrant. Many of your younger players wont have a problem with this since they didn't grow up with Sisko working with other 'Alpha Quadrant powers' to fight the Dominion or Janeway constantly telling Harry to set course to the 'Alpha Quadrant' to continue their voyage home. But to me it just feels VERY WRONG, and like you don't care about the history of the franchise at all. We old star trek fans don't have a show on TV anymore, the movies that have come out recently don't follow canon at all and are made by a director who couldn't care less. So, we come to Star Trek Online to get our fix of something we have followed since childhood. This is a VERY big disappointment to me and I believe I speak for many others.
I am hoping that you will rectify this HUGE mistake and put the federation or at the very LEAST --THE PLANET EARTH, back into the ALPHA quadrant where it belongs.
"Temba, his arms wide...."
Dude first off, sit down, take a breath, and calm down! Holy man,
The Sol System was always on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, countless trek sources that are considered Hard Canon state this. Including Star Trek Charts, a Galaxy Map released for Star Trek's 30th back in 1996, among other things i am probably forgetting, even some of the visuals for the episodes that show the maps, show the galaxy very very similiar to how it is here. Yes the Federation is majority of Alpha Quadrant Races, but Sol is a border world.
Any Paperbacks, Comics, Video Games, although they are Star Trek, they are considered to be Soft Canon as many many of them contradict each other, as is bound to happen when you have many authors since the first original series book published writing them. Some of the Relaunched titles in recent years are getting better, but that is because only one or two authors are penning them, and perhaps there is more oversight, but they are still soft canon.
The producers of this game decided to go with Hard Canon, though they did not say that in so many words, the way the map is laid out is much closer to the actual Star Trek universe as laid out in DS9, Voyager, TNG.
Finally it is a bloody game, if you dont like it or this change angers you that much, stop playing go out side, read a book, do something else it is really that simple
Just wondering... wouldn't it be possible to have a Sol System in both the Alpha and Beta Quadrants if it's supposed to be right on the border of each? And maybe an option of which quadrant you want to go to when warping out, or something similar?
Just wondering... wouldn't it be possible to have a Sol System in both the Alpha and Beta Quadrants if it's supposed to be right on the border of each? And maybe an option of which quadrant you want to go to when warping out, or something similar?
While putting it on the border of both quadrants would work, I think leaving ESD would get pretty confusing.
I wonder if it would have been possible to put entry points for Sol in both Alpha and Beta, and have players who've progresses to the Alpha Quadrant stuff in game have buttons on the UI in Sol system space to warp out to either of those entry points the way someone at the Academy can beam up to multiple destinations...
Not a request. Just musing. Though the layout of the map leaves no spot for the Alpha Quadrant Sol entry point.
That would be my preference as well. I do like that idea.
While putting it on the border of both quadrants would work, I think leaving ESD would get pretty confusing.
No more confusing than leaving the Jenolan sphere. We have options there to leave to both the Beta Quadrant and the Delta Quadrant. It's not really that confusing.
It would have been easy enough to simply flip the names of the two maps during the sector space revamp... I in fact posted a suggestion to that effect which was never even replied to.
Sorry, but the major powers belong in the Alpha Quadrant.
Except that would counter canon. Canon has always had the quadrants where we have them.
No more confusing than leaving the Jenolan sphere. We have options there to leave to both the Beta Quadrant and the Delta Quadrant. It's not really that confusing.
At that point, though, you're Level 50+ and have learned to pay attention to what you're doing and where you're going. Or at least you should.
A new player starting out at ESD won't know the difference initially.
Perhaps an Alpha Quadrant level lock-out from ESD until time to start the Cardassian arc? I don't know.
I'd personally like Earth and the Sol System to be Alpha Quadrant locations, but I'm not the person who made the maps and I'm sure those who did wouldn't appreciate their work being undone just because Janeway and Sisko can't keep the Alpha and Beta Quadrants straight in their heads. :P
At that point, though, you're Level 50+ and have learned to pay attention to what you're doing and where you're going. Or at least you should.
A new player starting out at ESD won't know the difference initially.
Perhaps an Alpha Quadrant level lock-out from ESD until time to start the Cardassian arc? I don't know.
I'd personally like Earth and the Sol System to be Alpha Quadrant locations, but I'm not the person who made the maps and I'm sure those who did wouldn't appreciate their work being undone just because Janeway and Sisko can't keep the Alpha and Beta Quadrants straight in their heads. :P
Indeed. That's what nadiezja was suggesting earlier that I agreed with:
I wonder if it would have been possible to put entry points for Sol in both Alpha and Beta, and have players who've progresses to the Alpha Quadrant stuff in game have buttons on the UI in Sol system space to warp out to either of those entry points the way someone at the Academy can beam up to multiple destinations...
Not a request. Just musing. Though the layout of the map leaves no spot for the Alpha Quadrant Sol entry point.
(Snip word salad)
I am hoping that you will rectify this HUGE mistake and put the federation or at the very LEAST --THE PLANET EARTH, back into the ALPHA quadrant where it belongs.
"Temba, his arms wide...."
Dude, take a breath, align your chakras and repeat the MST3K mantra:
Comments
I don't think people honestly expect it to change - stuff that made it holodeck never changed in the history of this game. However, the question is a legitimate one and it will be brought up again. Of course it doesn't break the game, but sensitive discrepancies between on-screen reference and the game that claims to represent that on-screen referenced material will cause mild confusion. In the old maps nobody really noticed as the quadrants were hardly referenced in name at all, but now it says clearly "Earth (Sol)" and "Beta Quadrant" - of course people will now scratch their heads.
Wether or not there are "bigger fish to fry" isn't really important, I think. I mean there's always something more important at hand, in the end anything in STO is non essential after all.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Not a request. Just musing. Though the layout of the map leaves no spot for the Alpha Quadrant Sol entry point.
..it's still feels weird. Technically correct doesn't mean it's intuitive or makes sense.
However the blame isn't on the devs here, the blame is on the writers of the series. The writers played fast and loose with the cartography and the devs don't have that luxury. They HAD to make a map and chose the best option available, even if that option feels weird and unintuitive.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
OP, if this "issue" is making you this upset about things, maybe it's time to take a break from the game. Perhaps even a permanent break from the Internet might help you out as well.
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord
1. All of the televisions shows and movies modified or disregarded canon to suit the story. It has been established in canon that the Sol system is on the border of the Alpha Quadrant and Beta Quadrant.
2. The decision to put Earth in the Beta Quadrant may seem to be a slap in the face, but it really isn't. If Earth was placed in the Alpha Quadrant, there would have been an uproar from that as well. Why? Vulcan, Andoria, and Wolf 359 are in the Beta Quadrant. However, all four systems are supposedly to be in the same sector. If Earth would have been placed in the Alpha Quadrant map, it would have been in a different sector than the other three; which I think would have cause more anger. Moving Andoria, Vulcan, and Wolf 359 to the Alpha Quadrant, would have caused the same uproar. So placing Earth in the Beta Quadrant was the best possible decision.
I was thinking something similiar, like putting Sol on the edge of the Alpha quadrant and implementing a "warp to" location in the beta quadrant, so you effectively have it in both quadrants. Again, just musing, not demanding or anything, finished assets in STO rarely change
Then you should read again. You misunderstood the OP entirely, there's not a single word about "the destruction of everything". He/She states that he/she is disappointed because having Sol in the Beta Quadrant feels unintuitive and goes against established canon. And while I disagree with the notion that everything needs to be in the Alpha Quadrant, as Okuda et al.'s maps clearly show, I am with him in the question wether or not Sol is located in the Alpha or Beta quadrant - it's on the edge, but has always been referred to as "Alpha". This doesn't break anything, but it feels odd to some people, that is all.
Don't mmedeatly reject a fellow player that has some kind of concern as a "doomsayer", please.
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OMG, why 2 Sol systems. Why not 2 Qo'nos' as well. Feds get everything.
The idea of finding out Earth is split between Alpha and Beta is completely new to me... I am so used to Alpha Quadrant this and that and expect Earth to not be straddling a line, but firmly in the Alpha Quadrant, period.
Doesn't matter how it gets retconned later in some expanded materials or ****... it does feel off.
However, this game is not even really canon... they could move Earth to the freaking Delta Quadrant like a Dyson Sphere just because a plot demands it... whatevs
For those who might not remember the OP:
Well, yes and no. I mean yes, everything besides "Sol doesn't belong in the Beta Quadrant" is wrong and disproven. But it comes down to this:
The implementation a disregard for canon: Arguably true, I'd say. I am at least partially with the OP here.
Little regard for long term fans: Nebulous kind of sentence, but I think I get what the point is and overall I agree (other points do influence my conclusion about that as well, though)
I will never feel comfortable (...) to me it seems (...): Opinion.
"We old star Trek fans (...)": He's actually right. No TV installment left, JJTrek doesn't follow canon as it's a reboot thing and JJ Abrams didn't care about Star Trek, that's documented fact
Star Trek fix and "I believe I speak for others": He assumes he does and at least I can agree with him here. Of course, Sols placement doesn't make or break it but it annoys me as well.
His closing statement doesn't seem all that offensive to me. Granted, I didn't read the "insult to every fan" part, that I disagree with.
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What? You think they don't have politics in 2409?
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
I actually prefer the system to be recorded as being in the Beta Quadrant, for a number of reasons.
1. Primary belligerents in the Federation's history have most often originated in the Beta Quadrant (the Romulans, the Klingons, and first contact with the Borg, to name a few).
2. The largest frontier of the Federation exists in the Beta Quadrant.
3. Three TV series and most of the movies take place in the Beta Quadrant.
4. In-game, all the early missions occur in the Beta Quadrant. Why send players into a region with level 35-45 locations, when the level 1-35 missions are literally just a formality to the right?
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1. It's easier. Consider how cumbersome it would be to say "Alpha and Beta Quadrants" everytime they talk about the area. It has probably become part of the vernacular to talk about the area as the alpha quadrant.
2. Bajor, Ds9, Cardasia and much of the federation are in the Alpha Quadrant. Most of the time the people talking are in the Alpha Quadrant.
3. It's hardly one quadrant. The area we are talking about is a small portion of each quadrant and could easily fit in a single quadrant. Talking as if the dominion were going to take over 2 quadrants would be a bit grandious.
4. The Klingons have territory in the Alpha quadrant at that time. They took some from the Cardasians.
5. That Alpha Quadrant is key. It is where the wormhole is and if the Dominion take the territories in the the Alpha Quadrent those in the Beta are not far behind.
6. Quadrant lines are irrelevant. They help for designating where places are but they don't really matter. They are imaginary cartography lines.
7. The quadrants may only be how the federation divides the galaxy. The Klingons, Romulans and Dominion may have their own conventions, but it's easier to speak is terms everyone understands.
If you want to start an argument discuss Religion, Politics or Star Trek....and I'm surprised there haven't been wars fought over Star Trek.
Since the maps in the game are not canon, and are there simply for Game Play I don't particularly care if there are different from some other source. There are things in trek's real canon that don't make sense at all but the location of star sytems is just one of those things that doesn't register much (for me at least).
I mean, I can understand that from a storytelling perspective they might want to leave that a bit open anddisregard information from the past or canon/non-canon sources.
...and I don't think anything in the JJ movies can be against canon too much since its a reboot/ retcon. (I don'thate them as much as others, but I do have my own issues with them, that perhaps I'll bring up at another time)
I don't know if anyone can claim that something is an insult to every fan. I've been a fan of Star Trek since the early 70s and I've had serious disagreements with other fans. (On my previous account, boy howdy, did we used to fight
in these forums).
Dude first off, sit down, take a breath, and calm down! Holy man,
The Sol System was always on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, countless trek sources that are considered Hard Canon state this. Including Star Trek Charts, a Galaxy Map released for Star Trek's 30th back in 1996, among other things i am probably forgetting, even some of the visuals for the episodes that show the maps, show the galaxy very very similiar to how it is here. Yes the Federation is majority of Alpha Quadrant Races, but Sol is a border world.
Any Paperbacks, Comics, Video Games, although they are Star Trek, they are considered to be Soft Canon as many many of them contradict each other, as is bound to happen when you have many authors since the first original series book published writing them. Some of the Relaunched titles in recent years are getting better, but that is because only one or two authors are penning them, and perhaps there is more oversight, but they are still soft canon.
The producers of this game decided to go with Hard Canon, though they did not say that in so many words, the way the map is laid out is much closer to the actual Star Trek universe as laid out in DS9, Voyager, TNG.
Finally it is a bloody game, if you dont like it or this change angers you that much, stop playing go out side, read a book, do something else it is really that simple
Commanding Officer USS Frontenac
Commanding Officer Enterprise NX-01
Psssst. . . . it's been there since launch. . .
While putting it on the border of both quadrants would work, I think leaving ESD would get pretty confusing.
That would be my preference as well. I do like that idea.
Mine Trap Supporter
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Sectors_Star_Trek.JPG
http://i41.tinypic.com/5k2c74.jpg
at least earth location in MW is correct
No more confusing than leaving the Jenolan sphere. We have options there to leave to both the Beta Quadrant and the Delta Quadrant. It's not really that confusing.
Mine Trap Supporter
Except that would counter canon. Canon has always had the quadrants where we have them.
See Thomaselkins' post above.
At that point, though, you're Level 50+ and have learned to pay attention to what you're doing and where you're going. Or at least you should.
A new player starting out at ESD won't know the difference initially.
Perhaps an Alpha Quadrant level lock-out from ESD until time to start the Cardassian arc? I don't know.
I'd personally like Earth and the Sol System to be Alpha Quadrant locations, but I'm not the person who made the maps and I'm sure those who did wouldn't appreciate their work being undone just because Janeway and Sisko can't keep the Alpha and Beta Quadrants straight in their heads. :P
Indeed. That's what nadiezja was suggesting earlier that I agreed with:
Mine Trap Supporter
Dude, take a breath, align your chakras and repeat the MST3K mantra:
https://youtu.be/aAwh1Wtb8QE?t=1m2s