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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Earth now in Beta Quadrant?!? Red Alert! Huge Mistake!

tavnytavny Member Posts: 11 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
This game was built on a franchise that existed long before it. The reason to create a game on an existing franchise by buying the rights to use it, is to get custumers and fans 'built into' the concept that are already fans of the franchise and will therefore be interested in your product. I believe the new Maps designation of Alpha and Beta quadrants is an insult to every fan of Star Trek currently playing your game. It is well known by every viewer of Star Trek TNG, DS9 and VOY and every book reader of the hundreds of Star Trek paperback books that EARTH is in the ALPHA quadrant and ALWAYS has been. The Federation was founded by planets in the Alpha quadrant, the two major threatening powers to the Federation in the ALPHA quadrant are the Kingon and Romulan empires. The BETA quadrant started out being referred to in mission logs when a captain was sent 'out there' away from home, if you or aliens were even farther 'out there' they might be said to be from the gamma or delta quadrants. It is obvious from doing a little research that you based your new map names and placement on Star Trek: Star Charts book which is in turn based on two obscure props; one of which is from the 2009 movie Star Trek directed by JJ Abrams who is well known to not care in the slightest about following canon or continuity and created a time-travel paradox to give himself an excuse to not care about it.

Star Trek: Star Charts is the ONLY reference material to place the federation squarly in the middle of the Alpha and Beta quadrants and the Klingons and Romulans completely in the Beta quadrants and although this is completely wrong and contradicted by countless episodes of DS9 and VOY and paperback books, EVEN THEY don't go as far as to put EARTH (the Sol System) in the beta quadrant! EVERYONE knows that Earth has Always been in the Alpha Quadrant except the devs of Star Trek Online.

According to the producers of Star Trek: DS9, Star Trek: Voyager and countless paperback books some of which were written by Lenord Nimoy and William Shatner: The Federation was founded in the Alpha Quadrant by the Andorians, Humans, Vulcans and Tellarites, with other races like the Rigellians and others joining soon after the foundation. When the Romulans and Klingons joined forces with the Federation against the Dominion in DS9 they called themselves the Alpha Quadrant Alliance. It's very clear by on-screen actions that everyone we see not from the Delta Quadrant (Starfleet, the Vulcans, Klingons, Rommies, Cardies, Bajorans, Ferengi, Betazed...everyone) considers themselves and everything they know to be a part of the Alpha Quadrant. In actual dialogue from Star Trek Voyager and Star Trek DS9 all three races and their goverments have been referred to exclusively as Alpha Quadrant Powers. Ronald D. Moore noted that the "Alpha quadrant is firmly planted in the audience's mind as where the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans all live so I think we'll stick with that nomenclature". Instead of using an obscure reference book that most people in Star Trek that were involved in production of series or books would not agree with, why don't you ask the actors you recently hired to do voice overs which quadrant their characters' home planet was in? They will all say the Alpha Quadrant without exception.

Captain Sulu and the Excelsior spent three years studying gaseous anomalies in the Beta Quadrant per Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered country. Obviously this log entry was to establish that the Excelsior was a deep space exploration vessel and not just trolling around the local systems. Very little has been established about the Beta Quadrant in actual episodes, movies or books approved by the producers of Star Trek. It has been established that the Romulan Empire , the far side of it farthest away from Federation territory expands into the Beta Quadrant. Also, it is presumed that there is a large Borg presence in the Beta Quadrant. And perhaps that the Breen and Tholian territories may expand into the Beta Quadrant. It is well established that most of your maps and systems are all considered by Star Trek to be part of the Alpha Quadrant and that both your two major maps should be called the Alpha Quadrant, the only parts that would not belong are the borg and fluidic space. The entrance to fluidic space clearly belongs in the Delta Quadrant and the Borg could be also moved to the Delta Quadrant since it has a large presence in both Delta and Beta Quadrants. Neither belong anywhere near the systems of the Alpha Quadrant that you have on your Beta Quadrant map.

So, in closing I would like to state that I was actually looking forward to the 'new space' idea and the 'Shaka when the Walls Fell' concept. The IDEA WAS GOOD, the IMPLEMENTATION of that idea showed total disregard for canon and known pre-established 'facts' about the Star Trek Universe. Therefore, it shows little regard for long term fans of the Star Trek franchise. I will never feel comfortable again flying around in the wrong quadrant and visiting planets I have always thought of as part of the Alpha Quadrant. Many of your younger players wont have a problem with this since they didn't grow up with Sisko working with other 'Alpha Quadrant powers' to fight the Dominion or Janeway constantly telling Harry to set course to the 'Alpha Quadrant' to continue their voyage home. But to me it just feels VERY WRONG, and like you don't care about the history of the franchise at all. We old star trek fans don't have a show on TV anymore, the movies that have come out recently don't follow canon at all and are made by a director who couldn't care less. So, we come to Star Trek Online to get our fix of something we have followed since childhood. This is a VERY big disappointment to me and I believe I speak for many others.

I am hoping that you will rectify this HUGE mistake and put the federation or at the very LEAST --THE PLANET EARTH, back into the ALPHA quadrant where it belongs.

"Temba, his arms wide...."
Post edited by tavny on
«134

Comments

  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Taco made a thread/FAQ about this already. Please read it to understand why it was put there.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • chalpenchalpen Member Posts: 2,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Taco is just trying to TRIBBLE with you. It's only on your copy of the game
    Should I start posting again after all this time?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    chalpen wrote: »
    Taco is just trying to TRIBBLE with you. It's only on your copy of the game

    S10 needs more of this. :D
  • jam3s1701jam3s1701 Member Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Been covered so. . . . . . Many times its done like this for a reason. .

    And not game breaking so ya know . . . .
    JtaDmwW.png
  • kozar2kozar2 Member Posts: 602 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The sky is falling, the sky is falling it hit me on the head!
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tavny wrote: »
    This game was built on a franchise that existed long before it. The reason to create a game on an existing franchise by buying the rights to use it, is to get custumers and fans 'built into' the concept that are already fans of the franchise and will therefore be interested in your product. I believe the new Maps designation of Alpha and Beta quadrants is an insult to every fan of Star Trek currently playing your game. It is well known by every viewer of Star Trek TNG, DS9 and VOY and every book reader of the hundreds of Star Trek paperback books that EARTH is in the ALPHA quadrant and ALWAYS has been. The Federation was founded by planets in the Alpha quadrant, the two major threatening powers to the Federation in the ALPHA quadrant are the Kingon and Romulan empires. The BETA quadrant started out being referred to in mission logs when a captain was sent 'out there' away from home, if you or aliens were even farther 'out there' they might be said to be from the gamma or delta quadrants. It is obvious from doing a little research that you based your new map names and placement on Star Trek: Star Charts book which is in turn based on two obscure props; one of which is from the 2009 movie Star Trek directed by JJ Abrams who is well known to not care in the slightest about following canon or continuity and created a time-travel paradox to give himself an excuse to not care about it.

    Star Trek: Star Charts is the ONLY reference material to place the federation squarly in the middle of the Alpha and Beta quadrants and the Klingons and Romulans completely in the Beta quadrants and although this is completely wrong and contradicted by countless episodes of DS9 and VOY and paperback books, EVEN THEY don't go as far as to put EARTH (the Sol System) in the beta quadrant! EVERYONE knows that Earth has Always been in the Alpha Quadrant except the devs of Star Trek Online.

    According to the producers of Star Trek: DS9, Star Trek: Voyager and countless paperback books some of which were written by Lenord Nimoy and William Shatner: The Federation was founded in the Alpha Quadrant by the Andorians, Humans, Vulcans and Tellarites, with other races like the Rigellians and others joining soon after the foundation. When the Romulans and Klingons joined forces with the Federation against the Dominion in DS9 they called themselves the Alpha Quadrant Alliance. It's very clear by on-screen actions that everyone we see not from the Delta Quadrant (Starfleet, the Vulcans, Klingons, Rommies, Cardies, Bajorans, Ferengi, Betazed...everyone) considers themselves and everything they know to be a part of the Alpha Quadrant. In actual dialogue from Star Trek Voyager and Star Trek DS9 all three races and their goverments have been referred to exclusively as Alpha Quadrant Powers. Ronald D. Moore noted that the "Alpha quadrant is firmly planted in the audience's mind as where the Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans all live so I think we'll stick with that nomenclature". Instead of using an obscure reference book that most people in Star Trek that were involved in production of series or books would not agree with, why don't you ask the actors you recently hired to do voice overs which quadrant their characters' home planet was in? They will all say the Alpha Quadrant without exception.

    Captain Sulu and the Excelsior spent three years studying gaseous anomalies in the Beta Quadrant per Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered country. Obviously this log entry was to establish that the Excelsior was a deep space exploration vessel and not just trolling around the local systems. Very little has been established about the Beta Quadrant in actual episodes, movies or books approved by the producers of Star Trek. It has been established that the Romulan Empire , the far side of it farthest away from Federation territory expands into the Beta Quadrant. Also, it is presumed that there is a large Borg presence in the Beta Quadrant. And perhaps that the Breen and Tholian territories may expand into the Beta Quadrant. It is well established that most of your maps and systems are all considered by Star Trek to be part of the Alpha Quadrant and that both your two major maps should be called the Alpha Quadrant, the only parts that would not belong are the borg and fluidic space. The entrance to fluidic space clearly belongs in the Delta Quadrant and the Borg could be also moved to the Delta Quadrant since it has a large presence in both Delta and Beta Quadrants. Neither belong anywhere near the systems of the Alpha Quadrant that you have on your Beta Quadrant map.

    So, in closing I would like to state that I was actually looking forward to the 'new space' idea and the 'Shaka when the Walls Fell' concept. The IDEA WAS GOOD, the IMPLEMENTATION of that idea showed total disregard for canon and known pre-established 'facts' about the Star Trek Universe. Therefore, it shows little regard for long term fans of the Star Trek franchise. I will never feel comfortable again flying around in the wrong quadrant and visiting planets I have always thought of as part of the Alpha Quadrant. Many of your younger players wont have a problem with this since they didn't grow up with Sisko working with other 'Alpha Quadrant powers' to fight the Dominion or Janeway constantly telling Harry to set course to the 'Alpha Quadrant' to continue their voyage home. But to me it just feels VERY WRONG, and like you don't care about the history of the franchise at all. We old star trek fans don't have a show on TV anymore, the movies that have come out recently don't follow canon at all and are made by a director who couldn't care less. So, we come to Star Trek Online to get our fix of something we have followed since childhood. This is a VERY big disappointment to me and I believe I speak for many others.

    I am hoping that you will rectify this HUGE mistake and put the federation or at the very LEAST --THE PLANET EARTH, back into the ALPHA quadrant where it belongs.

    "Temba, his arms wide...."

    You must be new to STO as this isn't the first time someone brought this up - and it was answered by the Environmental Artist a while ago (a long with many other questions RE: The decisions made for the Sector Space Revamp:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=23465581#post23465581

    As for his answer to you're specific issue/point:
    Q: Why is Sol in the Beta Quadrant? (or, "Janeway never said she was going to the Beta Quadrant!")

    A: Short answer? Because the writers of Star Trek used "Alpha" as a keyword for home.
    In reality (fiction), Sol should be directly on the line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. However, merging the Alpha and Beta quadrant maps together was not possible, so we had to have a split between them. As such, putting Sol on that division is very problematic. Instead, we decided to keep Sol roughly where it has been since launch, on the Beta Quadrant side, in the upper left corner of the Vulcan Sector.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    For all of this is: We're using the Star Trek Star Charts book as our guide, and put things where they should be according to that. Please remember when looking at Sector Space, that there are 50 years of canon, all of which contradicts itself. Reconciling all of that was actually impossible. We did our best to keep things in order, but there simply have to be some concessions.


    Q: Why is Sol in the Beta Quadrant? (or, "Janeway never said she was going to the Beta Quadrant!")

    A: Short answer? Because the writers of Star Trek used "Alpha" as a keyword for home.
    In reality (fiction), Sol should be directly on the line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. However, merging the Alpha and Beta quadrant maps together was not possible, so we had to have a split between them. As such, putting Sol on that division is very problematic. Instead, we decided to keep Sol roughly where it has been since launch, on the Beta Quadrant side, in the upper left corner of the Vulcan Sector.

    /10characters
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Earth belongs in both the Alpha and Beta Quadrant not the Alpha Quadrant. Since that is not possible, then Cryptic had to choose. Besides, Earth according to STO has always been in the Beta Quadrant since launch. It would be worse to move Earth to the Alpha Quadrant since people are used to where Earth is now. Gameplay is always more important than canon.
  • caylenrcaylenr Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    An insult, he says!! XD

    Someone get a medal for Captain Hyperbole here!

    And a teenie-tiny violin to play him out.


    LOLOLOLOL
  • amosov78amosov78 Member Posts: 1,495 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Mike Okuda in Star Trek VI established that the Klingon Empire was in the Beta Quadrant, as that was the location of the Excelsior when it was hit by the nearby subspace shock wave caused by the explosion on Praxis, Qo'noS' moon.
    U.S.S. Endeavour NCC-71895 - Nebula-class
    Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
    Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,690 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    OP, since you will be quitting once you realize that the devs are not going to accede to your demands,

    can I haz ur stuffs?
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Bye, Felicia.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Earth has been in the Beta Quadrant since BETA TESTING! I still don't understand how people can be surprised by this ... yes, there are alternative ways they could have done it, but there is no perfect way, so this is how it is.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    omg! It'S OUT OF PLACE, ALL IS DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED, GAME OVER.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
  • tavnytavny Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    WOW,
    JJ Abrams has no regard for canon or continuity and his prop guy makes a map placing where things are haphazardly, not really caring what it depicts and they write a book called Star Trek Star Charts based on that prop and one other from the ST6 movie, both of which were never meant to be seen close-up and you use that book as a basis to believe that the federation should be straddling the Alpha and Beta Quadrants and that all of Klingon and Romulan Empires should be in the Beta Quadrant , when everything spoken and written for all the Star Trek shows and paperback novels goes against that... Wow.

    If you went by the actual series and paperback fiction that was actually controlled content and approved by the Paramount studios. You would have Earth in the center of the Federation and the Federation at the center of the Alpha quadrant with romulans to the upper left and Klingons to the lower left of the Federation all in the Alpha Quadrant. As many games have done before THIS ONE! Going against this to such extreme and using one book that is not supported by pre-established canon, is bound to upset many fans of Star Trek who come to this game... Why would you do that?
    Why intentionally build a game system with blatant diseregard to what people have come to understand over many years of watching Star Trek? Aren't you trying to attract star trek fans to your game? Isn't that why you have a Star Trek game in the first place?

    The reason the cast interchanged the word 'Alpha' for Home, is rather obvious.. their home was in the ALPHA QUADRANT!
    Well, obviously this is an accepted innacurracy by most and an old topic to others, so I will close by saying, this is one Star Trek fan that is truly disappointed.
  • jheinigjheinig Member Posts: 364 Cryptic Developer
    edited April 2015
    Quick note: Star Trek Star Charts was released in 2002, long before the JJ movies.
  • chalpenchalpen Member Posts: 2,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jheinig wrote: »
    Quick note: Star Trek Star Charts was released in 2002, long before the JJ movies.

    There was a newer version
    Should I start posting again after all this time?
  • primar13primar13 Member Posts: 1,896 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    Also... Earth has been in the Beta Quadrant since game launch. :)
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tavny wrote: »
    WOW,
    JJ Abrams has no regard for canon or continuity and his prop guy makes a map placing where things are haphazardly, not really caring what it depicts and they write a book called Star Trek Star Charts based on that prop and one other from the ST6 movie, both of which were never meant to be seen close-up and you use that book as a basis to believe that the federation should be straddling the Alpha and Beta Quadrants and that all of Klingon and Romulan Empires should be in the Beta Quadrant , when everything spoken and written for all the Star Trek shows and paperback novels goes against that... Wow.

    If you went by the actual series and paperback fiction that was actually controlled content and approved by the Paramount studios. You would have Earth in the center of the Federation and the Federation at the center of the Alpha quadrant with romulans to the upper left and Klingons to the lower left of the Federation all in the Alpha Quadrant. As many games have done before THIS ONE! Going against this to such extreme and using one book that is not supported by pre-established canon, is bound to upset many fans of Star Trek who come to this game... Why would you do that?
    Why intentionally build a game system with blatant diseregard to what people have come to understand over many years of watching Star Trek? Aren't you trying to attract star trek fans to your game? Isn't that why you have a Star Trek game in the first place?

    The reason the cast interchanged the word 'Alpha' for Home, is rather obvious.. their home was in the ALPHA QUADRANT!
    Well, obviously this is an accepted innacurracy by most and an old topic to others, so I will close by saying, this is one Star Trek fan that is truly disappointed.

    In all honesty, your over five years late on that argument. Earth, Vulcan, the Romulan and Klingon Empires, etc have all been in the Beta Quadrant since Closed Beta testing. Why is it suddenly a huge deal, when it apparently never mattered before?
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    evilmark444 wrote: »
    In all honesty, your over five years late on that argument. Earth, Vulcan, the Romulan and Klingon Empires, etc have all been in the Beta Quadrant since Closed Beta testing. Why is it suddenly a huge deal, when it apparently never mattered before?

    Because people need more stupid things to whine about.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
  • chalpenchalpen Member Posts: 2,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    primar13 wrote: »
    Also... Earth has been in the Beta Quadrant since game launch. :)

    Earth Alphists are going to be a new cult in sto. Much like the Steamists
    Should I start posting again after all this time?
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Huge mistake!
    Actually, it's called pragmatism.

    And it's not like the blue planet was in the middle of the Beta Quadrant, it's just at the limit so you can just pretend you've entered the Alpha Quadrant and your Boff is just a bit slow on the uptake.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • reximuzreximuz Member Posts: 1,172 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tavny wrote: »
    Well, obviously this is an accepted innacurracy by most and an old topic to others, so I will close by saying, this is one Star Trek fan that is truly disappointed.

    You aren't even a real fan if you claim Mike Okuda and Starfleet Star Charts are based on JJ trek. Considering you 3 post history, I think you are just a troll account coming here and making waves because you think its cute. In reality you are just a sad sad poser.
  • sle1989sle1989 Member Posts: 552 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I wonder which hemisphere the op thinks London is in then?
    y1arXbh.png

  • rancidmojorancidmojo Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Since the game isn't "canon" does it really matter?

    If something like this is going to upset you I'd advise against looking at any continuity errors in Trek History. Most fans I think learn to live with them....at least the ones that aren't too big.
  • quistraquistra Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Geographically, Earth is exactly where it should be.
    The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
    Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
  • thomaselkinsthomaselkins Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I've been a Star Trek fan for my whole life and I've always known that Earth was on the border of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Reference materials have been showing this for years. The second edition of Star Trek the Encyclopedia printed around 1997, as well as the Omnipedia CD-ROM for example.

    Star Trek Omnipedia Galaxy Map

    Or how about the Deep Space Technical Manual which was printed in 1998.

    DS9 Technical Manual Galaxy Map

    Then there is the map which shows Voyager's journey and destination.

    Star Trek Voyager Galaxy Map

    Star Trek Star Charts was just the most detailed map of the Galaxy we've seen so far and it was pieced together from people who have worked on Star Trek for pretty much their whole careers. As Memory-Alpha puts it...

    "Star Trek: Star Charts was written and illustrated by Geoffrey Mandel, with the help of Doug Drexler, Tim Earls, Larry Nemecek, and Christian R
    Star Trek Online - The TRUE Origin of the Discovery Universe
    20344687861_2df235d207_z.jpg
  • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tavny wrote: »
    If you went by the actual series and paperback fiction that was actually controlled content and approved by the Paramount studios. You would have Earth in the center of the Federation and the Federation at the center of the Alpha quadrant with romulans to the upper left and Klingons to the lower left of the Federation all in the Alpha Quadrant.

    STO is also "controlled content and approved by the Paramount studios" (actually CBS, who own the rights to the non-JJ stuff).

    And others have pointed out the multitude of sources that support Sol being on the Alpha/Beta border.

    TL;DR: Relax. :)
    You're right. The work here is very important.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
  • crm14916crm14916 Member Posts: 1,535 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Really??

    The OP throws a wall-of-text to complain about the same old horse that's been beat a thousand times...

    [Insert beating dead horse emote here]

    CM
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2015
    This content has been removed.
This discussion has been closed.