Admittedly, I came in just after the last Republic Day ran. If that's the case, then I stand corrected. I thought I had read somewhere before that there was no thalaron weapon on the Lleiset, which may be wrong.
The NPC version of the Lleiset doesn't have it (because it's a Republic Falchion-class dreadnought reskinned as a Tulwar). The playable version from "Republic Day" does, however.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The NPC version of the Lleiset doesn't have it (because it's a Republic Falchion-class dreadnought reskinned as a Tulwar). The playable version from "Republic Day" does, however.
So... it's a Scimitar-type Falchion variant with Tulwar parts. I LOVE IT :P
That makes more sense, and squares with hartzilla's comment about it being a 'show-off' piece in the annual mission.
Which should actually be announced sometime next week, now that I look at the calendar.
I've never seen any evidence that thalaron weaponry is banned by any treaty. I imagine there are movements to that end, but the Republic would be just as silly to give them up as the modern day US would be to unilaterally give up its nuclear weapons, considering that the Tal Shiar have them and use them. I would imagine, given the Republic's ideology, that they would be last resort weapons for Godzilla threshold scenarios, such as the Crystalline entity, Doomsday machine, or our new friends the Herald.
As for the war crimes stuff, while the Star Navy and Tal Shiar are separate (As cryptic finally admitted), the Tal Shiar is still an organ of the RSE government. Sure, Joe Centurion, and Mike Uhlan, and Star Navy Commander #7 are not responsible for what the Tal Shiar did, and in some cases where ignorant of it, the Star Navy's leadership, and Sela herself, are fully capable. Plenty of RSE people knew exactly what was going on, as evidenced by the very large number of Star Navy defectors within the RRF.
So, it is the term Command Responsibility that is applicable here. While Hakeev was working for the Iconians too, he did serve Sela as the head of her Tal Shiar, and Sela accepted that. In the Romulan missions, and the Fed romulan mystery arc, you see them working together on multiple occasions. And you don't ever see her denounce him. She tries to use you as a spy in his ranks, but given what we known of traditional Romulan politicsxits completely rational. Even right before his death in Cutting the Cord, she doesn't denounce him for his means. She simply cuts him loose because he is now a liability. Sela and her top commanders and advisors are as responsible for what the Tal Shiar is allow to get away with on their watch as all the leaders of TRIBBLE Germany were for the Holocaust.
This is also another manifestation of my TRIBBLE analogy. Certainly not because I think that every RSE supporter, or citizen, is a raving fascist, or wants to commit genocide against all non-Romulans. Because they have a leadership that uses evil means to maintain power, standing on the backs of a bunch of regular guys. Like the average Wehrmacht or SS trooper, the rank and file of the RSE are not fighting for their leaders power. They are fighting for their country, or because they were conscripted, or because for some reason they have some misguided loyalty to Sela, or they joined to get the Romulan equivalent of the G.I. bill, or any of the other million reasons people fight. Its why I despise the RSE's leadership.
Looks like the Feds banned it. No mention on if there was a treaty or any other quadrant-wide ban. So I think Tolmarius is right that there might not be a treaty in place, even before Okeg threw down the hammer.
In the bottom of the page, looks like Picard even wanted to use Thalaron weaponry at one point - Destiny novels, soft canon.
In the bottom of the page, looks like Picard even wanted to use Thalaron weaponry at one point - Destiny novels, soft canon.
Note that was a clear case of the Federation hitting the Godzilla Threshold -- they were up against an all-out invasion by the Borg at the time. Not a "single cube goes after Earth" thing, a "several thousand cubes launch multi-pronged assault, smash up dozens of major planets, and wipe out half of Starfleet before they're stopped".
Frankly I think the worry about thalaron is overblown. As I meant to point out when people were arguing about the Vaadwaur and Kobali, so f*cking what if a starship has a thalaron generator? A combat starship is already capable of that kind of destruction using only its conventional weapons, it just takes longer! (Reason the Vaads and zombies come into it is because the Vaads started using chemical weapons on them late in the BZ story.)
No, because it pisses off the mods to link to the leakers and their page specifically says "Stop linking to us from the forums." These are the guys who datamine the game files to predict new content and ships.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Note that was a clear case of the Federation hitting the Godzilla Threshold -- they were up against an all-out invasion by the Borg at the time. Not a "single cube goes after Earth" thing, a "several thousand cubes launch multi-pronged assault, smash up dozens of major planets, and wipe out half of Starfleet before they're stopped".
"Desperate times call for desperate measures," so goes the saying. In the case of all-out invasion, it's hard to justify against using any and all means at your disposal.
Either way, it does appear that the Federation is the only power that explicitly bans thalaron weaponry. The RSE and Tal Shiar certainly do not have any issues developing it, and there doesn't appear to be anything preventing the Republic from doing so as well. Mind you the Republic only seems to be equipping it occasionally on ships that were built specifically as thalaron weapons, while the others use it for ground combat and experiment with it freely.
Looks like the Feds banned it. No mention on if there was a treaty or any other quadrant-wide ban. So I think Tolmarius is right that there might not be a treaty in place, even before Okeg threw down the hammer.
In the bottom of the page, looks like Picard even wanted to use Thalaron weaponry at one point - Destiny novels, soft canon.
Here:
Following Shinzon's failed attempt at genocide (and Data's subsequent sacrifice), there was growing fear within the quadrants of a thalaron war which would devastate all civilizations. A study published by Memory Alpha suggested that if the Romulan Star Empire collapsed then it was possible that within three years the quadrants would be devastated by thalaron weapons which would weaken all the factions against a possible renewed threat from the Borg Collective. (TOS novel: Captain's Blood)
Thalaron weapons were eventually banned by all major powers in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. During the Borg crisis of early 2381, however, Seven of Nine proposed building a thalaron generator for use against the enemy armada. This plan was initially rejected by Starfleet Command, but after seven thousand Borg cubes broke through Starfleet's line of defense in the Azure Nebula, Captain Picard briefly entertained the idea. He was persuaded to scrap the plan, however, after Geordi La Forge refused to assist in building a thalaron generator. (ST - Destiny novels: Mere Mortals, Lost Souls)
In 2409, the Romulan colony of Delta Corvi contained a planetary Thalaron bomb located beneath the settlement which was to be used as a desperate last weapon against invaders. At the time, the world was attacked by the Tal Shiar with assistance from the alien Elachi. A spy from the Romulan Republic who had infiltrated the Tal Shiar managed to warn Major Vrimak who headed the colony. In desperation, he intended to detonate the Thalaron bomb to prevent the colony from falling into the hands of the enemy. However, he allowed for the colonists to be first evacuated whereupon the weapon was activated leaving Delta Corvi a dead scorched planet. (STO mission: "Cloak and Dagger")
Remember, this is STO, which means both canonical and deuterocanonical sources, so Memory Alpha is only part of the story. Still, I see no mention of any treaty concerning the matter.
How we RP it in Tal'Diann, Tal-Diann, and Lasasam s'Tal'Diann:
"New Romulus Star Command has authorized the use of thalaron weapons in space combat *only*, _*and*_ *only* against military targets and targets which do not make distinctions between those they attack, such as the various Crystalline Entities."
-- Praetor Jiana t'Charvon (aka Gessatra t'Prell, among other aliases), discussing the subject with a hopeful applicant to the Tal'Diann Academy
Frankly I think the worry about thalaron is overblown. As I meant to point out when people were arguing about the Vaadwaur and Kobali, so f*cking what if a starship has a thalaron generator? A combat starship is already capable of that kind of destruction using only its conventional weapons, it just takes longer! (Reason the Vaads and zombies come into it is because the Vaads started using chemical weapons on them late in the BZ story.)
Mind you the Republic only seems to be equipping it occasionally on ships that were built specifically as thalaron weapons, while the others use it for ground combat and experiment with it freely.
And therein lies the difference. The RSE/Tal'Shiar are willing to use such devices against other people; the NRR uses such devices against enemy vessels in space combat (and foes like the Crystalline Entity, which doesn't make any distinction between civilian and military and is thus a threat to all flesh and blood lifeforms).
Thalaron weapons were eventually banned by all major powers in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. During the Borg crisis of early 2381, however, Seven of Nine proposed building a thalaron generator for use against the enemy armada. This plan was initially rejected by Starfleet Command, but after seven thousand Borg cubes broke through Starfleet's line of defense in the Azure Nebula, Captain Picard briefly entertained the idea. He was persuaded to scrap the plan, however, after Geordi La Forge refused to assist in building a thalaron generator. (ST - Destiny novels: Mere Mortals, Lost Souls)
And there's your problem. STO's canon entirely disregards the Destiny novels, particularly the aforementioned Borg invasion, as well as much of what came after, including the formation of the Typhon Pact, the destruction of Deep Space 9, the assassination of President Bacco, and the suicides in prison of Donatra and Sela.
Even if it hadn't, the Republic didn't exist as a recognized state until 2409 and therefore couldn't possibly have been a signatory to any treaties of the 2380s.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Here:
... Thalaron weapons were eventually banned by all major powers in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. During the Borg crisis of early 2381, however, Seven of Nine proposed building a thalaron generator for use against the enemy armada. This plan was initially rejected by Starfleet Command, but after seven thousand Borg cubes broke through Starfleet's line of defense in the Azure Nebula, Captain Picard briefly entertained the idea. He was persuaded to scrap the plan, however, after Geordi La Forge refused to assist in building a thalaron generator. (ST - Destiny novels: Mere Mortals, Lost Souls).
...
Remember, this is STO, which means both canonical and deuterocanonical sources, so Memory Alpha is only part of the story. Still, I see no mention of any treaty concerning the matter.
Yep, that's where I got the Picard reference from earlier.
Issue there is the date - it says that thalaron weapons were banned prior to or by 2381, which is before Hobus. And President Okeg, in his incredibly weak defence to the Feds' cloak experiments, declared all treaties and agreements with the Romulans null and void once Romulus was gone. So it appears as if any ban we had shared with the Federation died with the other agreements, such as the Treaty of Algeron.
So even if there was a specific treaty - which as you said, is up for debate - it's gone now.
And the Feds' say the Romulans play political games to suit their agenda We do, of course, but we're not nearly as short-sighted as Okeg.
And there's your problem. STO's canon entirely disregards the Destiny novels, particularly the aforementioned Borg invasion, as well as much of what came after, including the formation of the Typhon Pact, the destruction of Deep Space 9, the assassination of President Bacco, and the suicides in prison of Donatra and Sela.
Even if it hadn't, the Republic didn't exist as a recognized state until 2409 and therefore couldn't possibly have been a signatory to any treaties of the 2380s.
It's a funny mix, for sure. Reconciling canon is hard enough sometimes, let alone mixing in soft canon, then adding more soft canon on top of it. Luckily, a lot of basics can at least be maintained overall.
Either way, any of the RSE's agreements with the Federation, including those on thalaron, were struck off the record by Okeg. So unless the Republic has explicitly signed new treaties to replace the old ones, there's a lot of gray area.
My $0.02: The Treaty is not longer recognised by the U.F.P., and the Romulan Republic-Reman Resistance (as the de facto successor state of the Romulan Star Empire) is inclined to still follow it, but it cannot do so realistically, as it has spent its entire existence at war.
It's a funny mix, for sure. Reconciling canon is hard enough sometimes, let alone mixing in soft canon, then adding more soft canon on top of it. Luckily, a lot of basics can at least be maintained overall.
Generally background worldbuilding like cultural and linguistic details are pretty safe. Cryptic cribbed liberally from Diane Duane for the Romulans: The Path to 2409 name-drops concepts like mnhei'sahe and honor blades and even mentions Ael t'Rllaillieu (in a comparison to Sela that probably came from Sela's own propaganda machine), and they also lightly imply the novelverse interpretation of Andorian reproduction (some of the characters on Andoria and in the Path use novelverse name structures). Specific novel events, like the Borg invasion and everything that came out of it, and Voyager leading a quantum slipstream-equipped expedition back to the Delta Quadrant in the '80s, tend to be more likely to be jossed.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Generally background worldbuilding like cultural and linguistic details are pretty safe. Cryptic cribbed liberally from Diane Duane for the Romulans: The Path to 2409 name-drops concepts like mnhei'sahe and honor blades and even mentions Ael t'Rllaillieu (in a comparison to Sela that probably came from Sela's own propaganda machine), and they also lightly imply the novelverse interpretation of Andorian reproduction (some of the characters on Andoria and in the Path use novelverse name structures). Specific novel events, like the Borg invasion and everything that came out of it, and Voyager leading a quantum slipstream-equipped expedition back to the Delta Quadrant in the '80s, tend to be more likely to be jossed.
Yeah, I do really appreciate the lore efforts that went into STO. Pretty well laid out 'this is what we like, this is what we don't like, and this is where we filled in the gaps.'
I'm slowly reading through The Needs of the Many, the companion book to STO. Even that fills in some nice gaps, and centres a lot of Trek characters and events within the STO timeline.
And yeah, the Rihannsu series is basically everywhere. Even tons of the ship names come from words developed in there.
In and out of STO, Thalaron weapons are treated as pretty horrible devices on par with biogenic weapons, varon-T disruptors, subspace weapons, etc.
Cryptic just brushes the obvious issues raised by their use under the rug for the sake of their new streamlined storyline. It makes very little sense that the Federation wouldn't be bringing up their discomfort with their allies using these weapons, but there we have it. It's a plothole big enough to drive a galaxy class through, and all we have to plug it is headcannon.
At any rate, the new episode shows that the Star Empire is still quite alive, and not just the Tal Shiar elements, rather interesting to see Cryptic backpeddal on the strength of the Tal Shair again. Now the RSE armed forces proper exist again-albeit in a stunted form.
Still, a shame the episode had so few opportunities for RP-there were so many questions I had for Sela and Taris! Shame to see Taris go (again) I think I heard somewhere that Cryptic isn't using the Vocie actors for Gaius or Taris anymore?
Still, It's a start. I'd like to think of it as some sort of recognition from Cryptic about many of the complaints about the RSE/RR/Tal Shiar situation.
In and out of STO, Thalaron weapons are treated as pretty horrible devices on par with biogenic weapons, varon-T disruptors, subspace weapons, etc.
Cryptic just brushes the obvious issues raised by their use under the rug for the sake of their new streamlined storyline. It makes very little sense that the Federation wouldn't be bringing up their discomfort with their allies using these weapons, but there we have it. It's a plothole big enough to drive a galaxy class through, and all we have to plug it is headcannon.
At any rate, the new episode shows that the Star Empire is still quite alive, and not just the Tal Shiar elements, rather interesting to see Cryptic backpeddal on the strength of the Tal Shair again. Now the RSE armed forces proper exist again-albeit in a stunted form.
Still, a shame the episode had so few opportunities for RP-there were so many questions I had for Sela and Taris! Shame to see Taris go (again) I think I heard somewhere that Cryptic isn't using the Vocie actors for Gaius or Taris anymore?
Still, It's a start. I'd like to think of it as some sort of recognition from Cryptic about many of the complaints about the RSE/RR/Tal Shiar situation.
Given the way Thalaron is used in STO.... It seems like a lot of what once made it so terrifying is null and void. Sure, it makes people disintegrate in a painful way.... but apparently methods for shielding against it are now common knowledge.
In and out of STO, Thalaron weapons are treated as pretty horrible devices on par with biogenic weapons, varon-T disruptors, subspace weapons, etc.
Yeah, except they really aren't.
Biogenic weapons are just a technobabble term for bioweapons. They kill painfully and horribly and generally over an extended period of time, and they have a tendency to mutate and spread out of control. Thalaron kills pretty quick (although painfully) and isn't a life-form so it
can't mutate or spread beyond its target area (otherwise there should've been a hell of a lot of collateral damage from the thalaron bomb Tal'aura set off in the Senate building in the middle of Ki Baratan).
[*]Varon-T are probably the most similar in function.
[*]Subspace weapons do serious damage to spacetime with all sorts of crazy technobabble effects. Thalaron just kills organic life.
And again, there's that inconvenient fact that an ordinary warship is fully capable of glassing planets using only conventional weapons.
Still, a shame the episode had so few opportunities for RP-there were so many questions I had for Sela and Taris! Shame to see Taris go (again) I think I heard somewhere that Cryptic isn't using the Vocie actors for Gaius or Taris anymore?
Yeah, there was apparently a decision at PWE to get their US games SAG-certified and use only California-based voice talent, which means Lani Minella and Gabriel Wolf (and probably others) are out. Really bloody dumb considering I lost count of the number of roles Minella's done for this game, up to and including taking over the role of Federation computer voice after Majel Barrett died.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Still, a shame the episode had so few opportunities for RP-there were so many questions I had for Sela and Taris!
I can't think up anything to ask Taris, except "Why'd you blow up my homeworld? Why'd you kill everyone I knew? Why'd you do it you *****?" while pistol whipping her. Then giving her the Hakeev treatment.
Sela meanwhile? How about:
"Hey, Sela! Check and see if Taris grabbed a ledge when she fell!" *Raises plasma rifle*
I can't think up anything to ask Taris, except "Why'd you blow up my homeworld? Why'd you kill everyone I knew? Why'd you do it you *****?" while pistol whipping her. Then giving her the Hakeev treatment.
Wasn't she tricked by Hakeev? I thought her whole goal was to convince the Iconians to undo Hobus and restore the Star Empire.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
I can't think up anything to ask Taris, except "Why'd you blow up my homeworld? Why'd you kill everyone I knew? Why'd you do it you *****?" while pistol whipping her. Then giving her the Hakeev treatment.
Sela meanwhile? How about:
"Hey, Sela! Check and see if Taris grabbed a ledge when she fell!" *Raises plasma rifle*
Did you miss the numerous parts of the storyline where it's pretty explicit that she was tricked by Hakeev? And how she's been spending all of her time since that moment trying to undo the destruction of Romulus? Something neither Sela nor D'Tan actually seem interested in...Despite the fact that with the Delta Recruits thing on the horizon...the Republic at the very least apparently has the resources to do so.
Taris, whatever her faults was the only person actively working to undo the damage of the supernova.
Sela and Taris are the two living individuals who knew the most about the Iconians....so yes..t.here are a lot of questions they could answer and information they could provide that would be invaluable.
Which makes the lack of dialogue options quite irritating.
I kinda expected some sort of 'choose Sela or choose Taris' sort of showdown at the very least. Watching Sela just straight-up murder Taris was....vexing.
I don't really think Taris is dead. She fell down at the same spot the scout thing came up from....
given the load screen of her at the head of a pile of heralds, I agree with you... next time we see her she'll have converted to the Book of Origins and be leading her fellow faithful Priors in a holy jihad against us in the name of the Ori*cough* Iconians
I'm going to say this. For one thing, Taris's efforts were likely in vain. Even if she could go back, it probably wouldn't save Romulus. To many variables. The most likely thing to happen is that it would simply split off an alternate universe where Hobus didn't happen.
Secondly, time travel is not the cure all for everything. Why not send some powerful ships back and undo Wolf 359? Or perhaps stop the Sundering? Or WWIII? Messing around with time is dangerous. It could cause all kinds of ills. Part of the reason I dislike the Devidian episodes story wise. Time travel is used too frivolously.
I'm going to say this. For one thing, Taris's efforts were likely in vain. Even if she could go back, it probably wouldn't save Romulus. To many variables. The most likely thing to happen is that it would simply split off an alternate universe where Hobus didn't happen.
Secondly, time travel is not the cure all for everything. Why not send some powerful ships back and undo Wolf 359? Or perhaps stop the Sundering? Or WWIII? Messing around with time is dangerous. It could cause all kinds of ills. Part of the reason I dislike the Devidian episodes story wise. Time travel is used too frivolously.
I dunno what her plan was. Maybe use Red Matter to swallow the Hobus shock wave before it hit Romulus? Maybe move the planet? Hard to say.
I dunno what her plan was. Maybe use Red Matter to swallow the Hobus shock wave before it hit Romulus? Maybe move the planet? Hard to say.
How about a simple tap on the shoulder - - Present Taris to Past Taris? "Hey, if I were you...and I am YOU...I wouldn't mess with that Hobus thing Hakeev told you about. He's LYING to you. You will destroy the entire Homeworld system and murder BILLIONS of Romulans....here's a tricoder with all the video proof you need."
"Oh, and here's a disruptor pistol to go shoot Hakeev in the face..."
I'm going to say this. For one thing, Taris's efforts were likely in vain. Even if she could go back, it probably wouldn't save Romulus. To many variables. The most likely thing to happen is that it would simply split off an alternate universe where Hobus didn't happen.
Secondly, time travel is not the cure all for everything. Why not send some powerful ships back and undo Wolf 359? Or perhaps stop the Sundering? Or WWIII? Messing around with time is dangerous. It could cause all kinds of ills. Part of the reason I dislike the Devidian episodes story wise. Time travel is used too frivolously.
This, pretty much. Time travel got way overused in late Trek. If you make something like that too easy to do, you start to raise the question of why they don't do it more often for less-critical problems.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
The NPC version of the Lleiset doesn't have it (because it's a Republic Falchion-class dreadnought reskinned as a Tulwar). The playable version from "Republic Day" does, however.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
So... it's a Scimitar-type Falchion variant with Tulwar parts. I LOVE IT :P
That makes more sense, and squares with hartzilla's comment about it being a 'show-off' piece in the annual mission.
Which should actually be announced sometime next week, now that I look at the calendar.
As for the war crimes stuff, while the Star Navy and Tal Shiar are separate (As cryptic finally admitted), the Tal Shiar is still an organ of the RSE government. Sure, Joe Centurion, and Mike Uhlan, and Star Navy Commander #7 are not responsible for what the Tal Shiar did, and in some cases where ignorant of it, the Star Navy's leadership, and Sela herself, are fully capable. Plenty of RSE people knew exactly what was going on, as evidenced by the very large number of Star Navy defectors within the RRF.
So, it is the term Command Responsibility that is applicable here. While Hakeev was working for the Iconians too, he did serve Sela as the head of her Tal Shiar, and Sela accepted that. In the Romulan missions, and the Fed romulan mystery arc, you see them working together on multiple occasions. And you don't ever see her denounce him. She tries to use you as a spy in his ranks, but given what we known of traditional Romulan politicsxits completely rational. Even right before his death in Cutting the Cord, she doesn't denounce him for his means. She simply cuts him loose because he is now a liability. Sela and her top commanders and advisors are as responsible for what the Tal Shiar is allow to get away with on their watch as all the leaders of TRIBBLE Germany were for the Holocaust.
This is also another manifestation of my TRIBBLE analogy. Certainly not because I think that every RSE supporter, or citizen, is a raving fascist, or wants to commit genocide against all non-Romulans. Because they have a leadership that uses evil means to maintain power, standing on the backs of a bunch of regular guys. Like the average Wehrmacht or SS trooper, the rank and file of the RSE are not fighting for their leaders power. They are fighting for their country, or because they were conscripted, or because for some reason they have some misguided loyalty to Sela, or they joined to get the Romulan equivalent of the G.I. bill, or any of the other million reasons people fight. Its why I despise the RSE's leadership.
My character Tsin'xing
Never, as far as I am aware.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Thalaron_radiation#History_and_Use
Looks like the Feds banned it. No mention on if there was a treaty or any other quadrant-wide ban. So I think Tolmarius is right that there might not be a treaty in place, even before Okeg threw down the hammer.
In the bottom of the page, looks like Picard even wanted to use Thalaron weaponry at one point - Destiny novels, soft canon.
Could you share the link to that sight?
Frankly I think the worry about thalaron is overblown. As I meant to point out when people were arguing about the Vaadwaur and Kobali, so f*cking what if a starship has a thalaron generator? A combat starship is already capable of that kind of destruction using only its conventional weapons, it just takes longer! (Reason the Vaads and zombies come into it is because the Vaads started using chemical weapons on them late in the BZ story.)
No, because it pisses off the mods to link to the leakers and their page specifically says "Stop linking to us from the forums." These are the guys who datamine the game files to predict new content and ships.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"Desperate times call for desperate measures," so goes the saying. In the case of all-out invasion, it's hard to justify against using any and all means at your disposal.
Either way, it does appear that the Federation is the only power that explicitly bans thalaron weaponry. The RSE and Tal Shiar certainly do not have any issues developing it, and there doesn't appear to be anything preventing the Republic from doing so as well. Mind you the Republic only seems to be equipping it occasionally on ships that were built specifically as thalaron weapons, while the others use it for ground combat and experiment with it freely.
Here:
Thalaron weapons were eventually banned by all major powers in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. During the Borg crisis of early 2381, however, Seven of Nine proposed building a thalaron generator for use against the enemy armada. This plan was initially rejected by Starfleet Command, but after seven thousand Borg cubes broke through Starfleet's line of defense in the Azure Nebula, Captain Picard briefly entertained the idea. He was persuaded to scrap the plan, however, after Geordi La Forge refused to assist in building a thalaron generator. (ST - Destiny novels: Mere Mortals, Lost Souls)
In 2409, the Romulan colony of Delta Corvi contained a planetary Thalaron bomb located beneath the settlement which was to be used as a desperate last weapon against invaders. At the time, the world was attacked by the Tal Shiar with assistance from the alien Elachi. A spy from the Romulan Republic who had infiltrated the Tal Shiar managed to warn Major Vrimak who headed the colony. In desperation, he intended to detonate the Thalaron bomb to prevent the colony from falling into the hands of the enemy. However, he allowed for the colonists to be first evacuated whereupon the weapon was activated leaving Delta Corvi a dead scorched planet. (STO mission: "Cloak and Dagger")
-- Source (emphasis added)
Remember, this is STO, which means both canonical and deuterocanonical sources, so Memory Alpha is only part of the story. Still, I see no mention of any treaty concerning the matter.
How we RP it in Tal'Diann, Tal-Diann, and Lasasam s'Tal'Diann:
"New Romulus Star Command has authorized the use of thalaron weapons in space combat *only*, _*and*_ *only* against military targets and targets which do not make distinctions between those they attack, such as the various Crystalline Entities."
-- Praetor Jiana t'Charvon (aka Gessatra t'Prell, among other aliases), discussing the subject with a hopeful applicant to the Tal'Diann Academy
Indeed.
And therein lies the difference. The RSE/Tal'Shiar are willing to use such devices against other people; the NRR uses such devices against enemy vessels in space combat (and foes like the Crystalline Entity, which doesn't make any distinction between civilian and military and is thus a threat to all flesh and blood lifeforms).
Even if it hadn't, the Republic didn't exist as a recognized state until 2409 and therefore couldn't possibly have been a signatory to any treaties of the 2380s.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yep, that's where I got the Picard reference from earlier.
Issue there is the date - it says that thalaron weapons were banned prior to or by 2381, which is before Hobus. And President Okeg, in his incredibly weak defence to the Feds' cloak experiments, declared all treaties and agreements with the Romulans null and void once Romulus was gone. So it appears as if any ban we had shared with the Federation died with the other agreements, such as the Treaty of Algeron.
So even if there was a specific treaty - which as you said, is up for debate - it's gone now.
And the Feds' say the Romulans play political games to suit their agenda
It's a funny mix, for sure. Reconciling canon is hard enough sometimes, let alone mixing in soft canon, then adding more soft canon on top of it. Luckily, a lot of basics can at least be maintained overall.
Either way, any of the RSE's agreements with the Federation, including those on thalaron, were struck off the record by Okeg. So unless the Republic has explicitly signed new treaties to replace the old ones, there's a lot of gray area.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
Generally background worldbuilding like cultural and linguistic details are pretty safe. Cryptic cribbed liberally from Diane Duane for the Romulans: The Path to 2409 name-drops concepts like mnhei'sahe and honor blades and even mentions Ael t'Rllaillieu (in a comparison to Sela that probably came from Sela's own propaganda machine), and they also lightly imply the novelverse interpretation of Andorian reproduction (some of the characters on Andoria and in the Path use novelverse name structures). Specific novel events, like the Borg invasion and everything that came out of it, and Voyager leading a quantum slipstream-equipped expedition back to the Delta Quadrant in the '80s, tend to be more likely to be jossed.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yeah, I do really appreciate the lore efforts that went into STO. Pretty well laid out 'this is what we like, this is what we don't like, and this is where we filled in the gaps.'
I'm slowly reading through The Needs of the Many, the companion book to STO. Even that fills in some nice gaps, and centres a lot of Trek characters and events within the STO timeline.
And yeah, the Rihannsu series is basically everywhere. Even tons of the ship names come from words developed in there.
Cryptic just brushes the obvious issues raised by their use under the rug for the sake of their new streamlined storyline. It makes very little sense that the Federation wouldn't be bringing up their discomfort with their allies using these weapons, but there we have it. It's a plothole big enough to drive a galaxy class through, and all we have to plug it is headcannon.
At any rate, the new episode shows that the Star Empire is still quite alive, and not just the Tal Shiar elements, rather interesting to see Cryptic backpeddal on the strength of the Tal Shair again. Now the RSE armed forces proper exist again-albeit in a stunted form.
Still, a shame the episode had so few opportunities for RP-there were so many questions I had for Sela and Taris! Shame to see Taris go (again) I think I heard somewhere that Cryptic isn't using the Vocie actors for Gaius or Taris anymore?
Still, It's a start. I'd like to think of it as some sort of recognition from Cryptic about many of the complaints about the RSE/RR/Tal Shiar situation.
My character Tsin'xing
Biogenic weapons are just a technobabble term for bioweapons. They kill painfully and horribly and generally over an extended period of time, and they have a tendency to mutate and spread out of control. Thalaron kills pretty quick (although painfully) and isn't a life-form so it
can't mutate or spread beyond its target area (otherwise there should've been a hell of a lot of collateral damage from the thalaron bomb Tal'aura set off in the Senate building in the middle of Ki Baratan).[*]Varon-T are probably the most similar in function.
[*]Subspace weapons do serious damage to spacetime with all sorts of crazy technobabble effects. Thalaron just kills organic life.
And again, there's that inconvenient fact that an ordinary warship is fully capable of glassing planets using only conventional weapons.
Yeah, there was apparently a decision at PWE to get their US games SAG-certified and use only California-based voice talent, which means Lani Minella and Gabriel Wolf (and probably others) are out. Really bloody dumb considering I lost count of the number of roles Minella's done for this game, up to and including taking over the role of Federation computer voice after Majel Barrett died.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I can't think up anything to ask Taris, except "Why'd you blow up my homeworld? Why'd you kill everyone I knew? Why'd you do it you *****?" while pistol whipping her. Then giving her the Hakeev treatment.
Sela meanwhile? How about:
"Hey, Sela! Check and see if Taris grabbed a ledge when she fell!" *Raises plasma rifle*
Wasn't she tricked by Hakeev? I thought her whole goal was to convince the Iconians to undo Hobus and restore the Star Empire.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Taris, whatever her faults was the only person actively working to undo the damage of the supernova.
Sela and Taris are the two living individuals who knew the most about the Iconians....so yes..t.here are a lot of questions they could answer and information they could provide that would be invaluable.
Which makes the lack of dialogue options quite irritating.
I kinda expected some sort of 'choose Sela or choose Taris' sort of showdown at the very least. Watching Sela just straight-up murder Taris was....vexing.
My character Tsin'xing
Hmm... good point. Although I'd think the pilot of that ship would've just shaken her off :P
But still, it's possible.
Yeah no one ever really dies lol. That whole cut of one head and two more shall yadda yadda stuff.
[/SIGPIC]
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
given the load screen of her at the head of a pile of heralds, I agree with you... next time we see her she'll have converted to the Book of Origins and be leading her fellow faithful Priors in a holy jihad against us in the name of the Ori*cough* Iconians
Secondly, time travel is not the cure all for everything. Why not send some powerful ships back and undo Wolf 359? Or perhaps stop the Sundering? Or WWIII? Messing around with time is dangerous. It could cause all kinds of ills. Part of the reason I dislike the Devidian episodes story wise. Time travel is used too frivolously.
My character Tsin'xing
How about a simple tap on the shoulder - - Present Taris to Past Taris? "Hey, if I were you...and I am YOU...I wouldn't mess with that Hobus thing Hakeev told you about. He's LYING to you. You will destroy the entire Homeworld system and murder BILLIONS of Romulans....here's a tricoder with all the video proof you need."
"Oh, and here's a disruptor pistol to go shoot Hakeev in the face..."
:P
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
This, pretty much. Time travel got way overused in late Trek. If you make something like that too easy to do, you start to raise the question of why they don't do it more often for less-critical problems.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/