Its..not...a...DPS...ability. Whether it effects DPS is irrelevant...did anyone here watch the video...? Laughable...
Then forbid it when you play pvp with friends and rivals. Its perfectly in line with similar abilities in pve, and that is the proofing ground for an ability in this game.
PvP has to move to a single community, to a channel, which has rules, and those rules should be in a way that every game change can be softened. Just crying for a nerf doesnt cut it. The next ability which is OP in pvp (but not in pve) is just around the corner, and then we will again have this discussion. Hell, there are a lot of combination and abilities that are OP in pvp, but underpowered or in line in pve. Vanilla PvP or similar is the way PvP has to progess. Then you wont have any problems with abilities which are aligned to pve.
DHC? From a 2/3 to a 1/3 cycle? (3553.9 * 1) / 3 = 1184.6; so that matches.
DC? From a 4/3 to a 2/3 cycle? (1777 * 2) / 3 = 1184.6; so that matches.
Cannon? From a 4/3 to a 2/3 cycle? (1470.6 * 2) / 3 = 980.4; so that matches.
Turret? From a 4/3 to a 2/3 cycle? (919.1 * 2) / 3 = 612.7; so that matches.
Nice and simple, eh? Let's move on...alphabetically? CRF3 next?
DHC? From a 2/3 to a 2/2.6 cycle? (1648.9 * 2) / 2.6 = 1268.4; so that matches.
DC? From a 4/3 to a 4/2.2 cycle? (698.8 * 4) / 2.2 = 1270.6; so that matches.
Cannon? From a 4/3 to a 4/2.2 cycle? (578.1 * 4) / 2.2 = 1051.1; so that matches.
Turret? From a 4/3 to a 4/2.2 cycle? (361.4 * 4) / 2.2 = 657.1; so that's off by 0.1 (rounding, eh?)
Now there are two things taking place here, yeah? The 1.3 vs. 1.1 and the 2.6 vs. 2.2, right? So what's the "DPS" % increase going on, along the lines of what we looked at for the DPV?
So it would appear they were going for an overall DPS increase and had to adjust the DHC damage to be in line with that...or...the other way around, chicken 'n egg to get to the same results sort of thing.
So how does that CRF3 increase in DPS compare to the SS3 increase in DPS (rather than looking at DPV)...? Cause we didn't really look at that before, yeah?
...keep in mind, that's without the +40% Accuracy & +40% Critical Hit Chance bringing in the potential additional damage from both hits and crits. So with some Cryptic-Math, could probably see it on par with CRF3, yeah?
Okay then, moving on to CSV3 next, right?
Starting with DPV...well, it's kind of complicated. For DPV it doesn't really matter though, cause it would be that straightforward 1x, 2x, 3x depending on the number of targets; but I'll show the numbers all the same...
So yeah, this is telling us that Turrets are getting a better boost from CSV than DHCs, DCs, or Cannons...tsk, tsk, tsk.
Well then, moving on to DPS (again, looking at 1x, 2x, 3x), yeah? They'll be the standard 2/3, 4/3 with the 2-4-6/3, 4-8-12/3 going on for them; so I'll just look at the increases in DPS...should match the increases in DPV, eh?
So that was as expected, including the issue with CSV and Turrets.
What about comparing that DPS increase for CSV3 and SS3 then? Well, SS3 is the obvious choice for a single target...but CSV3 would be the obvious choice for 2 or 3 targets. Which isn't much different than what one would expect to see in comparing CSV3 and CRF3, eh?
Well then, that's the CRF3/CSV3 vs. SS3...what about some Beam stuff vs. SS1? SS1 vs. BO3 and SS1 vs. FAW3? Let me grab a Common Phaser Array Mk X and a Common Phaser DBB Mk X.
No real surprise there, the ~2.0 was mentioned in my first post. (Course, I'm going to edit that post...but anyway, the ~2.0's not a surprise for the SS1 (SS1 2.0, SS2 2.4, SS3 2.8).
And with the DPS, just the increase...
Array? 583.6 / 583.6
DBB? 758.6 / 758.6
Wait...what? SS1 provides no increase to the DPS (outside of the +20% Accuracy/+20% Critical Hit Chance)...? It's a straight up 2x damage for 1/2x RoF...so the actual increase comes from the +Acc/CrtH.
Well then, moving on to FAW3 next and looking at the DPV - I'll do the 1x and 2x like with the CSV above...
Before looking at that, will look at the DPS too, and then look at both (since FAW is both a multiple target as well as increased RoF boost); so the DPS...
Along the lines of what we saw with SS3 vs. CSV3 (as well as just CRF3 vs. CSV3), it comes down to the number of targets one has which is better; the single target ability or the multiple target ability.
Course, it's somewhat interesting when you compare those FAW3 boosts to the CRF3/CSV3 boosts, yeah? Cause a CRF3 gives a 1.5 to a single target while the FAW3 gives a 1.4 to a single target. What's a CRF2 give? Let me log back in and check...
DHC w/ CRF2? 1186.8 DPS / 846.2 DPS = ~1.4
...so the FAW3 single target boost ~= the CRF2 single target boost.
And with CSV2 vs. 2x targets and FAW3 vs. 2x targets...
DHC w/ CSV2 vs 2? Wait...what am I doing? That's getting into the Cannons vs. Beams thing - there is plenty of that discussion going on out there, no?
Okay then, first a couple of things...
1) CSV overperforms with Turrets.
2) Rarity modifiers do not apply to FAW.
Can't remember if I mentioned #2 there earlier, but I figured I'd take a moment to point it out all the same.
Next then, yeah - a laugh...of sorts...all the folks making it out to be some savior and absolute need for PvE. C'mon...lol...oh wait, was that for the Eclipse folks? Cause that would be a separate issue and getting into how SS overperforms on ships with non-Tac hybrid Intel seats, eh?
And well, to wrap this up quickly, cause I went from bored enough to start this to having fun with numbers to bored enough not to want to bother with this any more...
SS3 and PvP...SS3 in PvP allows you to do the following:
Trade [Acc]x4 for [CrtD]x4...trading 40% Accuracy for 80% Critical Severity, without giving up any Accuracy, since you get +40% Accuracy, and while also getting +40% Critical Hit Chance in the process.
SomeWeapon [Ac/Dm][Acc]x4
...with SS3 becomes...
SomeWeapon [Ac/Dm][Acc]x4[CrtD]x4[CrtH]x4
While the same kind of adjustment in PvE would be:
SomeWeapon [Ac/Dm][CrtD]x4
...with SS3 becomes...
SomeWeapon [Ac/Dm][Acc]x4[CrtD]x4[CrtH]x4
Where the combination of CrtH/CrtD from Accuracy Overflow and the increased CrtH...just aren't going to show up as much when compared to the CrtD that appeared over in PvP, eh?
And as I was previewing this, I'm pretty sure I saw somebody suggest the fix that would entail...
...remove the +Accuracy.
That's it. That simple.
Yes? No? Maybe so?
edit: Oh man, I totally forgot to do BO there...but like I said, I'm so way bored of the topic...don't care right now to go back and look at it. Needless to say, imho, BO still need some love even without the SS discussion.
edit2: Okay, maybe a wee look at the BO thing...heh. Just looking at the Array from above, the %/ratios are the same so it doesn't matter.
Something to point out here, is that BO doesn't consume the entire cycle...it does it's own thing for the cycle. So I'll look at a 10s period, eh? This won't include the CrtD amount as that's variable from player to player, and each player would have to figure that out for themselves...it's not being discounted, just not looked at closely here.
Standard
8 shots @ 729.5 DPV, for 5836 damage, and 583.6 DPS
FAW3
(single target): 10 shots @ 817 DPV, for 8170 damage, and 817 DPS
(two targets): 20 shots @ 817 DPV, for 16340 damage, and 1634 DPS
SS1
4 shots @ 1458.9 DPV, for 5835.6 damage, and 583.56 DPS
BO3
(the BO3 hit): 4032.7 DPV, 0.5s activation and 1s recharge, 1.5s consumed
(cycle#2): 4 shots @ 729.5 DPV, for 2918 damage, 5.5s consumed
(cycle#3): 2 shots @ 729.5 DPV, for 1459 damage, 2.5s consumed
Only 9.5s of the 10s are used. The 3rd shot of the 3rd cycle wouldn't come until 10.5s.
4032.7 + 2918 + 1459 = 8409.7 damage; and for (10s) it would be 840.97 DPS.
Course, that's only looking at a single weapon. Let's drop that out to 8x Arrays, in a magical land where we have zero drain and that target's parked right in that 70 degree arc for us. And we'll just look at DPS, yeah?
It's simple, here, we'll just multiply Standard, FAW3, and SS1 by 8 and look at the BO3.
So if we had a single Array vs. single Target, we'd have better DPS from BO3 than FAW3...but that's no longer the case once we add in multiple Arrays even against a single target.
Course, say we added in the even the minimal 50% CrtD to that BO3 without any other Bonus boosts?
40852 + 12614.55 = 53466.55 / 10 = 5346.655 DPS
Nope, still isn't going to touch the FAW3 even for single target. What if we did the 50% CrtD and had a 3stack of Beam Barrage going...as our only boosts?
43303.12 + 13119.132 = 56422.252 / 10 = 5642.2252 DPS
Nope, no luck. BO is simply a DPS loss...not a DPS ability...it's a burst/spike ability...kind of like looking at a Beam Torpedo sort of thing, yeah? Work in the EWO BO Penetration DOFFs...and yeah, right?
Hell, look what it would take for even SS1 to touch what FAW3 could do to a single target, eh? 100% crits would get you 7002.72 DPS compared to the 6536 DPS of FAW3 with 0% crits.
Yeah, now FAW...not SS...might be one of those abilities worth a look at, yeah? Cause that's without adding in the possible second target. Just saying...
It took you that much basic aritmetic to figure that out? it was obvious ... in fact some1 said in a post earlier that SS3 is op only when the target dosen't move , or is slowed ... so it has less defence ... DUH
Now you have to use some algorithms , and a basic equation to understand whats the real problem in pvp.
My point just is, riccardo171 is a big boy: he can take care of himself just fine, like most top PvP-ers. I'm not keeping track of such things, of course, but from the way he talks, I hardly get the impression he's losing every match since SS3. So, I'd say the cries for nerfs are highly exaggerated.
My point just is, riccardo171 is a big boy: he can take care of himself just fine, like most top PvP-ers. I'm not keeping track of such things, of course, but from the way he talks, I hardly get the impression he's losing every match since SS3. So, I'd say the cries for nerfs are highly exaggerated.
I don't speak for him, but I think that the point he's trying to make (and one that I agree with) is that it's very hard to defense against SS3.
DHCs are hitting for 60k+. Routinely. Off of one hit out of a single DHC's firing cycle.
That 60k hit is difficult (but not impossible) to defend against. But it becomes truly difficult/nigh impossible at times to defend against strings of 60k hits from 4 or 5 DHCs.
It's quite easy to put out damage that's well over 4x a player's HP in a single pass - and that's factoring in healing and resistances.
I don't speak for him, but I think that the point he's trying to make (and one that I agree with) is that it's very hard to defense against SS3.
DHCs are hitting for 60k+. Routinely. Off of one hit out of a single DHC's firing cycle.
That 60k hit is difficult (but not impossible) to defend against. But it becomes truly difficult/nigh impossible at times to defend against strings of 60k hits from 4 or 5 DHCs.
It's quite easy to put out damage that's well over 4x a player's HP in a single pass - and that's factoring in healing and resistances.
Fair points.
Well, in that case, let's add a -40% CrtD bonus to the ability against players then, as someone suggested. Or remove the +40% [Acc] against players (so zippier targets have a chance again). Then everyone's is happy, including me.
My point just is, riccardo171 is a big boy: he can take care of himself just fine, like most top PvP-ers. I'm not keeping track of such things, of course, but from the way he talks, I hardly get the impression he's losing every match since SS3. So, I'd say the cries for nerfs are highly exaggerated.
Praxi5 just nailed it. I don't lose every match I do because, I'll say it, I'm a veteran PvPer, I know how to avoid even the worst of the tricks. However new players don't, if they face Surgical the first thing they're going to do is not come back to PvP.
To make PvP appealing you need to balance it, you gotta be really stupid to not understand that.
Well, in that case, let's add a -40% CrtD bonus to the ability against players then, as someone suggested. Or remove the +40% [Acc] against players (so zippier targets have a chance again). Then everyone's is happy, including me.
While I agree that code branching or having different effects for PvP would be awesome, history has proven that it doesn't work/they can't do it.
They have a hard enough time managing a single code branch as is, and the existing PvP mods they have either don't work or are laughable at best.
While I agree that code branching or having different effects for PvP would be awesome, history has proven that it doesn't work/they can't do it.
They have a hard enough time managing a single code branch as is, and the existing PvP mods they have either don't work or are laughable at best.
But look at Evade Target Lock (accuracy reduction only works against players); they were apparently able to differentiate just fine. I say they should continue on that path! Then we won't have these discussions all the time.
It took you that much basic aritmetic to figure that out?
No, it didn't. It's information...overexplained perhaps, but it's easier to do that and answer potential questions rather than leave something without explanation, yeah? I have no problem spending a bit of time on things like that to try to help folks out.
I'm not particularly sure where the aggro is coming from, but you can go choke on it, fall off a roof into traffic, and not be noticed for a week until somebody comes along to scrape you off the road with a toothbrush into a little plastic baggy...
edit: Cause you know, there are still folks talking about SS3 as if it's better than other choices. Sure, it's better than Boarding Party 3...but folks are talking about it as if it's salvation for the meek. That kind of talk is just /facepalm.
But look at Evade Target Lock (accuracy reduction only works against players); they were apparently able to differentiate just fine. I say they should continue on that path! Then we won't have these discussions all the time.
Yep.
But, for some reason, they also decided in the same category of Intel that it would be OK to have chain disables and damage that scales well beyond player defense.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - we really just need a hefty balance pass. It'll bring everything in line to a baseline (reducing some effectiveness, but mostly buffing other items), bring under-performing/casual players up, and help them move NPC HP in a healthy direction.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - we really just need a hefty balance pass. It'll bring everything in line to a baseline (reducing some effectiveness, but mostly buffing other items), bring under-performing/casual players up, and help them move NPC HP in a healthy direction.
It's one of those funny things, yeah? Compare the various Tac, Eng, and Sci Cmdr R3 abilities, right? Not quite balanced, eh? Then add in the Int Cmdr R3 abilities, no? Not quite balanced, eh? Then pair the Intel hybrid seat with Tac, Eng, and Sci...working in the fun from those previous two comparisons, yeah?
I've said it before and I'll say it again - we really just need a hefty balance pass. It'll bring everything in line to a baseline (reducing some effectiveness, but mostly buffing other items), bring under-performing/casual players up, and help them move NPC HP in a healthy direction.
Not that I am against it, but:
its a huge Time- and money-costs, and in short and middle-term no quantifyable return of investment.
Well, if you (and other players) would be happy to supply the money for this adventure, I am sure cryptic would have an open ear.
If not, well, then we are certainly to far down the road to make a quick, easy and costsaving fix.
Not that I am against it, but:
its a huge Time- and money-costs, and in short and middle-term no quantifyable return of investment.
Well, if you (and other players) would be happy to supply the money for this adventure, I am sure cryptic would have an open ear.
If not, well, then we are certainly to far down the road to make a quick, easy and costsaving fix.
Why, I actually *am* against it. It would basically reset the entire game to beta-status, with months and months of endless fixes needed to get it half-way playable again. Great in theory, but Cryptic just can't do it.
Not that I am against it, but:
its a huge Time- and money-costs, and in short and middle-term no quantifyable return of investment.
Well, if you (and other players) would be happy to supply the money for this adventure, I am sure cryptic would have an open ear.
If not, well, then we are certainly to far down the road to make a quick, easy and costsaving fix.
That's the sad truth.
It would do heaps to improve player experience, but nothing to improve Cryptic's bottom line. Hence why we'll never see it.
Heck, people have been saying that Tachyon Beam is useless forever now and it fell on deaf ears - until it was time to perk up new Command ship sales, since one of their abilities is Tachyon Beam based.
Not that I am against it, but:
its a huge Time- and money-costs, and in short and middle-term no quantifyable return of investment.
Well, if you (and other players) would be happy to supply the money for this adventure, I am sure cryptic would have an open ear.
If not, well, then we are certainly to far down the road to make a quick, easy and costsaving fix.
It's only going to get worse. Kind of like...if one brought it up a year ago, it's worse now than it was. Or if somebody brought it up two years ago, it was already worse a year ago. If somebody brought it up three years ago, likewise it was worse a year later.
They've taken steps to look at the long term for the game...would think they've realized what a mess they've got on their hands with certain other things, so much like there have been revamps - there will be continued revamps.
They know they can't just keep going the way they've gone in the past - they've shown that by trying to address things, even if the left hand sometimes doesn't appear to know what the right hand is doing.
Since people are throwing numbers about, can we see difference between each class and its damage output. (engineer, science and tactical)
In Space, there are 5 Captain Abilities, and 3 Personal Traits that separate the Careers.
Attack Pattern Alpha
Fire On My Mark
Tactical Initiative
Go Down Fighting
Tactical Fleet
-Crippling Fire
-Last Ditch Effort
-Fleet Tactician
Rotate Shield Frequency
EPS Power Transfer
Nadion Inversion
Miracle Worker
Engineering Fleet
-EPS Manifold Efficiency
-Grace Under Fire
-Fleet Technician
Sensor Scan
Subnucleonic Beam
Scattering Field
Photonic Fleet
Science Fleet
-Conservation of Energy
-Photonic Capacitor
-Fleet Physicist
Everything else that goes into a build for Space...is not Career-restricted. Choice of Career may very well influence choices made, but it does not restrict things. If somebody wants to do a Tac Healer, somebody wants to do Eng DPS, somebody wants to do Sci Tank...etc, etc, etc. Will they perhaps do it as well as another Career choice? That's going to get into specifics of builds and not generalities...the generalities would come about from those eight things for each of the Careers and how they could potentially affect anything being done.
Not everything has to be the same, imho - just has to be on the same level for whatever is being done and have some sort of equal footing for need, eh?
not anymore after the last patch. Guess what I've PvPed all the afternoon, something that was impossible after DR.
Fixing SS3 is the last important thing to do.
Some arenas were popping faster than borg STFs. Think, think think...
SS1/2/3 are working as intended they don't need fixing in PvE their fine as they are, Doing the job of helping new players do some decent dps
Maybe in PvP they need a fix verses player
As far as fixing PvP it will fix nothing at all because so much is broken and OP new players stand no chance at all of having any fun in PvP
OP abilitys combined with OP gear combined with Veteran players combined with pay to win will keep PvP unfun and broken for the majority of the community and they wont play it more than a few times
saying SS3 is the last important thing to do is laffable at best it wouldn't even be the tip of the iceburg to fixing PvP
Its been this way over 3 years that I have been in the game
The only possible way to balance PvP is remove it from the PvE server first such as placing PvP on Red Shirt server so mechanic balance passes can be done there and not interfear with holo deck server
PvP and PvE are so different their separate games and cannot coexist on the same server. To keep a balance on both would be a impossible job
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
PvP and PvE are so different their separate games and cannot coexist on the same server. To keep a balance on both would be a impossible job
I've never understood that thought process. It's never made sense to me. Cause usually what I see being said there has nothing to do with PvP and PvE...
...it's usually more along the lines of Challenge cannot coexist with Challenged Players on the same server.
Cause even if PvP were removed, there would still be an issue...you'd still have your gamers, your average players, and that group of Jerry's Kids.
I mean, seriously, how can they even balance PvE when they've going folks doing 2k, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k, 30k, 45k, 50k, 60k, 75k or more DPS? It has nothing to do with PvP...it's PvE that's got the balance issue. How do they create content when they've got that wide a gap from their players?
I've never understood that thought process. It's never made sense to me.
It's very simple. PvE is about hitting large groups of enemies over time; hence the ever popular BFAW. Ever noticed that almost all top DPS-League folks are using BFAW?! Nary a one uses SS (at least not in any vid I've ever seen posted). PvP is about alpha-striking/vaping, and effectively, for the most part. a 1-on-1 endeavor. Superimposing PvP needs onto PvE is therefore inherently flawed. It shouldn't happen; and PvP-ers shouldn't keep asking for it.
It's very simple. PvE is about hitting large groups of enemies over time; hence the ever popular BFAW. Ever noticed that almost all top DPS-League folks are using BFAW?! Nary a one uses SS (at least not in any vid I've ever seen posted). PvP is about alpha-striking/vaping, and effectively, for the most part. a 1-on-1 endeavor. Superimposing PvP needs onto PvE is therefore inherently flawed. It shouldn't happen; and PvP-ers shouldn't keep asking for it.
That's a concept of PVE. Kind of comes off as arts 'n crafts for the special needs kids...kind of PVE.
That some of the kids are able to lob those thermonuclear grenades into barrels of goldfish faster than some of the other kids...doesn't change that.
They've had to create a challenge for themselves because the content itself offers them no challenge.
If the PvE in this game offered any kind of challenge - then it would be closer to what PvP offers. There wouldn't be as much difficulty developing/balancing for the two...
...it's only when PvE content consists of figuring out which flip-flop goes on which foot, that something that might require being able to tie shoelaces would become a problem.
Ever notice that there tends to be an inordinate amount of sociopaths on the forums here compared to other games? I think it's the PvE...it's like holding a magnifying glass to ants, it's like pulling wings off of flies, and moving on up from there - it's a breeding ground of that kind of behavior where folks commit genocide and pat themselves on the back for a good job! It's disgusting.
I mean, seriously, how can they even balance PvE when they've going folks doing 2k, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k, 30k, 45k, 50k, 60k, 75k or more DPS? It has nothing to do with PvP...it's PvE that's got the balance issue. How do they create content when they've got that wide a gap from their players?
Also, the 'gap' you mention between PvE players has nothing to do with any alleged unbalance, but with the way the cycling mechanism works in this game: some there be that understand the process, and hence do 5x as much DPS as someone else. Others, the so-called 'spacebar meshers', don't, and stay at 10k, or below. It has *nothing* to do with SS vs. BFAW, etc. Give, say, RyanSTO my Phantom, or Jena, and they'll do 150k in it (or higher); whereas I'm lucky to hit 40k, on a good day.
Also, the 'gap' you mention between PvE players has nothing to do with any alleged unbalance, but with the way the cycling mechanism works in this game: some there be that understand the process, and hence do 5x as much DPS as someone else. Others, the so-called 'spacebar meshers', don't, and stay at 10k, or below. It has *nothing* to do with SS vs. BFAW, etc. Give, say, RyanSTO my Phantom, or Jena, and they'll do 150k in it (or higher); whereas I'm lucky to hit 40k, on a good day.
That they can do 150k and you only 40k...is an imbalance. How can Cryptic design content when one of their players can do 150k and one only can do 40k, eh?
It's like somebody gave you an apple and you want to argue it's not an apple after thanking them for giving you an apple. The cognitive dissonance is nauseating. Hell, this thread's been full of it - the folks that were trying to defend SS as not being overpowered by saying it's the most powerful thing. Just what kind of freaking drugs are they on? No, show the numbers - hey, it's not the most powerful thing - it's going to depend on this and that, sometimes better, sometimes worse...generally balanced, yeah? No, got folks saying it's not overpowered but it's the most powerful...
...I'm done with this thread. I can feel more braincells dying the longer I'm bothering with it.
It's only going to get worse. Kind of like...if one brought it up a year ago, it's worse now than it was. Or if somebody brought it up two years ago, it was already worse a year ago. If somebody brought it up three years ago, likewise it was worse a year later.
They've taken steps to look at the long term for the game...would think they've realized what a mess they've got on their hands with certain other things, so much like there have been revamps - there will be continued revamps.
They know they can't just keep going the way they've gone in the past - they've shown that by trying to address things, even if the left hand sometimes doesn't appear to know what the right hand is doing.
In Space, there are 5 Captain Abilities, and 3 Personal Traits that separate the Careers.
Attack Pattern Alpha
Fire On My Mark
Tactical Initiative
Go Down Fighting
Tactical Fleet
-Crippling Fire
-Last Ditch Effort
-Fleet Tactician
Rotate Shield Frequency
EPS Power Transfer
Nadion Inversion
Miracle Worker
Engineering Fleet
-EPS Manifold Efficiency
-Grace Under Fire
-Fleet Technician
Sensor Scan
Subnucleonic Beam
Scattering Field
Photonic Fleet
Science Fleet
-Conservation of Energy
-Photonic Capacitor
-Fleet Physicist
Everything else that goes into a build for Space...is not Career-restricted. Choice of Career may very well influence choices made, but it does not restrict things. If somebody wants to do a Tac Healer, somebody wants to do Eng DPS, somebody wants to do Sci Tank...etc, etc, etc. Will they perhaps do it as well as another Career choice? That's going to get into specifics of builds and not generalities...the generalities would come about from those eight things for each of the Careers and how they could potentially affect anything being done.
Not everything has to be the same, imho - just has to be on the same level for whatever is being done and have some sort of equal footing for need, eh?
This is kind of why, I always said we as captains when it comes to our own game mechanics skills, are somewhat nothing more than glorified boffs.
We get 5 innate skills to activate vs a commander boffs 4.
We get 2 ground weapons + kits vs boffs 1 ground weapon & no kit.
Generalized skills effectively aid both ourselves and, boffs.
Boffs get traits but, we of course get more and, even have the ability to swap them.
Rep traits work to aid both ourselves and, boffs in most cases or, are just generalized aid for any given scenario.
All we are really there for, is to control things and, make them happen with our choices.
It's only going to get worse. Kind of like...if one brought it up a year ago, it's worse now than it was. Or if somebody brought it up two years ago, it was already worse a year ago. If somebody brought it up three years ago, likewise it was worse a year later.
Yes, its like building a house, if the fundament is shaky, it doesnt matter how solid the walls are. And they messed up from the beginning without even attempting to compensate.
I mean, seriously, how can they even balance PvE when they've going folks doing 2k, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k, 30k, 45k, 50k, 60k, 75k or more DPS? It has nothing to do with PvP...it's PvE that's got the balance issue. How do they create content when they've got that wide a gap from their players?
Well, if they would offer a real tutorial, one where you dont go to the tailor, but to the BO-Trainer, where you learn what what skilltree does, what powerlevels do, how damage stacking work (and maybe bring that in line so we only have one damage-stacking-process and not two or more) and provide a real help-side.
I am sure there are a lot of players which could contribute here. The dps-league alone has at least three prominent guide-writers in their upper echolons, and numerous more with knowledge around all different kind of builds.
The problem for new players is the following:
1.they dont find useful information ingame, some information there is even bluntly wrong.
2. if they search for information they get a lot of unuseful informations either, because everyone can give their two cents. Hell, there are scimis on youtube which have trouble with killing probes in kasa, but are advertised as "build suggestion/great build"
3. of course there are a lot new players who dont want to (extensively) search for information, so you have to "force" it onto them, like "for build informaton and mechanics, visit www.stomechanics.arc.com" or something.
With this, you could at least get an average number for the "lower" echolons. Basically bringing the average dps from 3-8k to 8-12k.
And then you can far easier implement new stuff, because the variety (and I think thats only important from 1k-30k) is diminished. Hell, DR wouldnt have been any problem, there would have been some rants, but not nearly as much as we had. As we had because "its more difficult now", while the difficutly has basically not changed. The time to complete has.
That they can do 150k and you only 40k...is an imbalance. How can Cryptic design content when one of their players can do 150k and one only can do 40k, eh?
I wouldn't call the situation with the cycling mechanism unbalanced, no. You could ere call it 'broken', perhaps, in that it's not intuitive to new players, who are, for the most part, blissfully unaware of how it works. Kinda like -- here cometh the Internet car analogy -- stepping on the gas, whilst also applying the brakes at the same time: it's 'working as intended' that way, and allowed, but not very efficient; and a driver who knows what he/she is doing, will never do it, of course.
It's like somebody gave you an apple and you want to argue it's not an apple after thanking them for giving you an apple. The cognitive dissonance is nauseating. Hell, this thread's been full of it - the folks that were trying to defend SS as not being overpowered by saying it's the most powerful thing. Just what kind of freaking drugs are they on? No, show the numbers - hey, it's not the most powerful thing - it's going to depend on this and that, sometimes better, sometimes worse...generally balanced, yeah? No, got folks saying it's not overpowered but it's the most powerful...
I don't know numbers; you know that. What *I* just do is simply look at what the top DPS-League folks are doing; and SS is not part of their equation. So, I simply figure that, however OP some people may deem it to be, apparently SS really isn't. At least not for PvE.
Comments
Then forbid it when you play pvp with friends and rivals. Its perfectly in line with similar abilities in pve, and that is the proofing ground for an ability in this game.
PvP has to move to a single community, to a channel, which has rules, and those rules should be in a way that every game change can be softened. Just crying for a nerf doesnt cut it. The next ability which is OP in pvp (but not in pve) is just around the corner, and then we will again have this discussion. Hell, there are a lot of combination and abilities that are OP in pvp, but underpowered or in line in pve. Vanilla PvP or similar is the way PvP has to progess. Then you wont have any problems with abilities which are aligned to pve.
The following are just Common Phaser Mk X weapons, all Bonus boosts removed, no Phaser consoles, ~109 Weapon Power, etc, etc, etc.
DHC
Standard: 1269.3 / 846.2; 0.5s activation, 2s recharge
CRF3: 1648.9 / 1268.4; 0.3s activation, 2s recharge
CSV3: 1588.3 - 4764.9 / 1058.9 - 3176.7; 0.5s activation, 2s recharge
SS3: 3553.9 / 1184.6; 1s activation, 2s recharge, +40% Accuracy, +40% Critical Hit Chance
DC
Standard: 634.6 / 846.2; 0.5s activation, 1s recharge
CRF3: 698.8 / 1270.6; 0.3s activation, 1s recharge
CSV3: 795.1 - 2385.3 / 1060.1 - 3180.3; 0.5s activation, 1s recharge
SS3: 1777 / 1184.6; 1s activation, 1s recharge, +40% Accuracy, +40% Critical Hit Chance
Cannon
Standard: 525.2 / 700.3; 0.5s activation, 1s recharge
CRF3: 578.1 / 1051.1; 0.3s activation, 1s recharge
CSV3: 658 - 1974 / 877.3 - 2631.9; 0.5s activation, 1s recharge
SS3: 1470.6 / 980.4, 1s activation, 1s recharge, +40% Accuracy, +40% Critical Hit Chance
Turret
Standard: 328.3 / 437.7; 0.5s activation, 1s recharge
CRF3: 361.4 / 657.2; 0.3s activation, 1s recharge
CSV3: 569 - 1707 / 758.6 - 2275.8; 0.5s activation, 1s recharge
SS3: 919.1 / 612.7; 1s activation, 1s recharge, +40% Accuracy, +40% Critical Hit Chance
First, let's start with the SS3...cause, it's actually consistent, eh?
Starting with DPV...
DHC? 3553.9 / 1269.3 = ~2.8
DC? 1777 / 634.6 = ~2.8
Cannon? 1470.6 / 525.2 = ~2.8
Turret? 919.1 / 328.3 = ~2.8
Looking at DPS...
DHC? From a 2/3 to a 1/3 cycle? (3553.9 * 1) / 3 = 1184.6; so that matches.
DC? From a 4/3 to a 2/3 cycle? (1777 * 2) / 3 = 1184.6; so that matches.
Cannon? From a 4/3 to a 2/3 cycle? (1470.6 * 2) / 3 = 980.4; so that matches.
Turret? From a 4/3 to a 2/3 cycle? (919.1 * 2) / 3 = 612.7; so that matches.
Nice and simple, eh? Let's move on...alphabetically? CRF3 next?
Starting with DPV...
DHC? 1648.9 / 1269.3 = ~1.3
DC? 698.8 / 634.6 = ~1.1
Cannon? 578.1 / 525.2 = ~1.1
Turret? 361.4 / 328.3 = ~1.1
Hrmm, well then, eh?
Still though, looking at DPS...
DHC? From a 2/3 to a 2/2.6 cycle? (1648.9 * 2) / 2.6 = 1268.4; so that matches.
DC? From a 4/3 to a 4/2.2 cycle? (698.8 * 4) / 2.2 = 1270.6; so that matches.
Cannon? From a 4/3 to a 4/2.2 cycle? (578.1 * 4) / 2.2 = 1051.1; so that matches.
Turret? From a 4/3 to a 4/2.2 cycle? (361.4 * 4) / 2.2 = 657.1; so that's off by 0.1 (rounding, eh?)
Now there are two things taking place here, yeah? The 1.3 vs. 1.1 and the 2.6 vs. 2.2, right? So what's the "DPS" % increase going on, along the lines of what we looked at for the DPV?
DHC? 1268.4 / 846.2 = ~1.5
DC? 1270.6 / 846.2 = ~1.5
Cannon? 1051.1 / 700.3 = ~1.5
Turret? 657.1 / 437.7 = ~1.5
So it would appear they were going for an overall DPS increase and had to adjust the DHC damage to be in line with that...or...the other way around, chicken 'n egg to get to the same results sort of thing.
So how does that CRF3 increase in DPS compare to the SS3 increase in DPS (rather than looking at DPV)...? Cause we didn't really look at that before, yeah?
SS3 DPS increase...
DHC? 1184.6 / 846.2 = ~1.4
DC? 1184.6 / 846.2 = ~1.4
Cannon? 980.4 / 700.3 = ~1.4
Turret? 612.7 / 437.7 = ~1.4
...keep in mind, that's without the +40% Accuracy & +40% Critical Hit Chance bringing in the potential additional damage from both hits and crits. So with some Cryptic-Math, could probably see it on par with CRF3, yeah?
Okay then, moving on to CSV3 next, right?
Starting with DPV...well, it's kind of complicated. For DPV it doesn't really matter though, cause it would be that straightforward 1x, 2x, 3x depending on the number of targets; but I'll show the numbers all the same...
(1x)DHC? 1588.3 / 1269.3 = ~1.25
(1x)DC? 795.1 / 634.6 = ~1.25
(1x)Cannon? 658 / 525.2 = ~1.25
(1x)Turret? 569 / 328.3 = ~1.73
(2x)DHC? 3176.6 / 1269.3 = ~2.5
(2x)DC? 1590.2 / 634.6 = ~2.5
(2x)Cannon? 1316 / 525.2 = ~2.5
(2x)Turret? 1138 / 328.3 = ~3.47
(3x)DHC? 4764.9 / 1269.3 = ~3.76
(3x)DC? 2385.3 / 634.6 = ~3.76
(3x)Cannon? 1974 / 525.2 = ~3.76
(3x)Turret? 1707 / 328.3 = ~5.2
So yeah, this is telling us that Turrets are getting a better boost from CSV than DHCs, DCs, or Cannons...tsk, tsk, tsk.
Well then, moving on to DPS (again, looking at 1x, 2x, 3x), yeah? They'll be the standard 2/3, 4/3 with the 2-4-6/3, 4-8-12/3 going on for them; so I'll just look at the increases in DPS...should match the increases in DPV, eh?
(1x)DHC? 1058.9 / 846.2 = ~1.25
(1x)DC? 1060.1 / 846.2 = ~1.25
(1x)Cannon? 877.3 / 700.3 = ~1.25
(1x)Turret? 758.6 / 437.7 = ~1.73
(2x)DHC? 2117.8 / 846.2 = ~2.5
(2x)DC? 2120.2 / 846.2 = ~2.5
(2x)Cannon? 1754.6 / 700.3 = ~2.5
(2x)Turret? 1517.2 / 437.7 = ~3.47
(3x)DHC? 3176.7 / 846.2 = ~3.76
(3x)DC? 3180.3 / 846.2 = ~3.76
(3x)Cannon? 2631.9 / 700.3 = ~3.76
(3x)Turret? 2275.8 / 437.7 = ~5.2
So that was as expected, including the issue with CSV and Turrets.
What about comparing that DPS increase for CSV3 and SS3 then? Well, SS3 is the obvious choice for a single target...but CSV3 would be the obvious choice for 2 or 3 targets. Which isn't much different than what one would expect to see in comparing CSV3 and CRF3, eh?
Well then, that's the CRF3/CSV3 vs. SS3...what about some Beam stuff vs. SS1? SS1 vs. BO3 and SS1 vs. FAW3? Let me grab a Common Phaser Array Mk X and a Common Phaser DBB Mk X.
Will do the Beams like the Cannons...
Array
Standard: 729.5 / 583.6; 1s activation, 1s recharge
BO3: 4032.7 / 2688.4; 0.5s activation, 1s recharge
FAW3: 817 - 1634 / 817 - 1634; 0.8s activation, 1s recharge (4/5 -> 5/5 RoF, 1-2 targets))
SS1: 1458.9 / 583.6; 2s activation, 1s recharge (4/5 -> 2/5 RoF)
DBB
Standard: 948.3 / 758.6; 1s activation, 1s recharge
BO3: 5214.7 / 3476.4; 0.5s activation, 1s recharge
FAW3: 1062.1 - 2124.2 / 1062.1 - 2124.2; 0.8s activation, 1s recharge (4/5 -> 5/5 RoF, 1-2 targets)
SS1: 1896.6 / 758.6; 2s activation, 1s recharge (4/5 -> 2/5 RoF)
So uh, start off with the SS1 I guess with DPV...
Array? 1458.9 / 729.5 = ~2.0
DBB? 1896.6 / 948.3 = ~2.0
No real surprise there, the ~2.0 was mentioned in my first post. (Course, I'm going to edit that post...but anyway, the ~2.0's not a surprise for the SS1 (SS1 2.0, SS2 2.4, SS3 2.8).
And with the DPS, just the increase...
Array? 583.6 / 583.6
DBB? 758.6 / 758.6
Wait...what? SS1 provides no increase to the DPS (outside of the +20% Accuracy/+20% Critical Hit Chance)...? It's a straight up 2x damage for 1/2x RoF...so the actual increase comes from the +Acc/CrtH.
Well then, moving on to FAW3 next and looking at the DPV - I'll do the 1x and 2x like with the CSV above...
(1x)Array? 817 / 729.5 = ~1.12
(1x)DBB? 1062.1 / 948.3 = ~1.12
(2x)Array? 1634 / 729.5 = ~2.24
(2x)DBB? 2124.2 / 948.3 = ~2.24
Before looking at that, will look at the DPS too, and then look at both (since FAW is both a multiple target as well as increased RoF boost); so the DPS...
(1x)Array? 817 / 583.6 = ~1.4
(1x)DBB? 1062.1 / 758.6 = ~1.4
(2x)Array? 1634 / 583.6 = ~2.8
(2x)DBB? 2124.2 / 758.6 = ~2.8
Along the lines of what we saw with SS3 vs. CSV3 (as well as just CRF3 vs. CSV3), it comes down to the number of targets one has which is better; the single target ability or the multiple target ability.
Course, it's somewhat interesting when you compare those FAW3 boosts to the CRF3/CSV3 boosts, yeah? Cause a CRF3 gives a 1.5 to a single target while the FAW3 gives a 1.4 to a single target. What's a CRF2 give? Let me log back in and check...
DHC w/ CRF2? 1186.8 DPS / 846.2 DPS = ~1.4
...so the FAW3 single target boost ~= the CRF2 single target boost.
And with CSV2 vs. 2x targets and FAW3 vs. 2x targets...
DHC w/ CSV2 vs 2? Wait...what am I doing? That's getting into the Cannons vs. Beams thing - there is plenty of that discussion going on out there, no?
Okay then, first a couple of things...
1) CSV overperforms with Turrets.
2) Rarity modifiers do not apply to FAW.
Can't remember if I mentioned #2 there earlier, but I figured I'd take a moment to point it out all the same.
Next then, yeah - a laugh...of sorts...all the folks making it out to be some savior and absolute need for PvE. C'mon...lol...oh wait, was that for the Eclipse folks? Cause that would be a separate issue and getting into how SS overperforms on ships with non-Tac hybrid Intel seats, eh?
And well, to wrap this up quickly, cause I went from bored enough to start this to having fun with numbers to bored enough not to want to bother with this any more...
SS3 and PvP...SS3 in PvP allows you to do the following:
Trade [Acc]x4 for [CrtD]x4...trading 40% Accuracy for 80% Critical Severity, without giving up any Accuracy, since you get +40% Accuracy, and while also getting +40% Critical Hit Chance in the process.
SomeWeapon [Ac/Dm][Acc]x4
...with SS3 becomes...
SomeWeapon [Ac/Dm][Acc]x4[CrtD]x4[CrtH]x4
While the same kind of adjustment in PvE would be:
SomeWeapon [Ac/Dm][CrtD]x4
...with SS3 becomes...
SomeWeapon [Ac/Dm][Acc]x4[CrtD]x4[CrtH]x4
Where the combination of CrtH/CrtD from Accuracy Overflow and the increased CrtH...just aren't going to show up as much when compared to the CrtD that appeared over in PvP, eh?
And as I was previewing this, I'm pretty sure I saw somebody suggest the fix that would entail...
...remove the +Accuracy.
That's it. That simple.
Yes? No? Maybe so?
edit: Oh man, I totally forgot to do BO there...but like I said, I'm so way bored of the topic...don't care right now to go back and look at it. Needless to say, imho, BO still need some love even without the SS discussion.
edit2: Okay, maybe a wee look at the BO thing...heh. Just looking at the Array from above, the %/ratios are the same so it doesn't matter.
Standard: 729.5 / 583.6
BO3: 4032.7 / 2688.4
FAW3: 817 - 1634 / 817 - 1634
SS1: 1458.9 / 583.6
Something to point out here, is that BO doesn't consume the entire cycle...it does it's own thing for the cycle. So I'll look at a 10s period, eh? This won't include the CrtD amount as that's variable from player to player, and each player would have to figure that out for themselves...it's not being discounted, just not looked at closely here.
Standard
8 shots @ 729.5 DPV, for 5836 damage, and 583.6 DPS
FAW3
(single target): 10 shots @ 817 DPV, for 8170 damage, and 817 DPS
(two targets): 20 shots @ 817 DPV, for 16340 damage, and 1634 DPS
SS1
4 shots @ 1458.9 DPV, for 5835.6 damage, and 583.56 DPS
BO3
(the BO3 hit): 4032.7 DPV, 0.5s activation and 1s recharge, 1.5s consumed
(cycle#2): 4 shots @ 729.5 DPV, for 2918 damage, 5.5s consumed
(cycle#3): 2 shots @ 729.5 DPV, for 1459 damage, 2.5s consumed
Only 9.5s of the 10s are used. The 3rd shot of the 3rd cycle wouldn't come until 10.5s.
4032.7 + 2918 + 1459 = 8409.7 damage; and for (10s) it would be 840.97 DPS.
Course, that's only looking at a single weapon. Let's drop that out to 8x Arrays, in a magical land where we have zero drain and that target's parked right in that 70 degree arc for us. And we'll just look at DPS, yeah?
It's simple, here, we'll just multiply Standard, FAW3, and SS1 by 8 and look at the BO3.
Standard: 4668.8 DPS
FAW3(1x): 6536 DPS
FAW3(2x): 13072 DPS
SS1: 4668.48 DPS
BO3: (see below)
BO3 would be 7x Arrays firing like Standard and the damage from our BO3 Array's cycles.
7x Standard = 7 * 5836 = 40852 damage
BO3 Cycles = 8409.7 damage
49261.7 damage / 10 seconds = 4926.17 DPS
So if we had a single Array vs. single Target, we'd have better DPS from BO3 than FAW3...but that's no longer the case once we add in multiple Arrays even against a single target.
Course, say we added in the even the minimal 50% CrtD to that BO3 without any other Bonus boosts?
40852 + 12614.55 = 53466.55 / 10 = 5346.655 DPS
Nope, still isn't going to touch the FAW3 even for single target. What if we did the 50% CrtD and had a 3stack of Beam Barrage going...as our only boosts?
43303.12 + 13119.132 = 56422.252 / 10 = 5642.2252 DPS
Nope, no luck. BO is simply a DPS loss...not a DPS ability...it's a burst/spike ability...kind of like looking at a Beam Torpedo sort of thing, yeah? Work in the EWO BO Penetration DOFFs...and yeah, right?
Hell, look what it would take for even SS1 to touch what FAW3 could do to a single target, eh? 100% crits would get you 7002.72 DPS compared to the 6536 DPS of FAW3 with 0% crits.
Yeah, now FAW...not SS...might be one of those abilities worth a look at, yeah? Cause that's without adding in the possible second target. Just saying...
I'd say, in the meantime I go for Quantum Bubble + zero throttle + FBP = kill.
Oh wait, YOU said that. Stop trolling. You exemplify the exact reasons why you deserve none of the nerfs you cry for.
It took you that much basic aritmetic to figure that out? it was obvious ... in fact some1 said in a post earlier that SS3 is op only when the target dosen't move , or is slowed ... so it has less defence ... DUH
Now you have to use some algorithms , and a basic equation to understand whats the real problem in pvp.
Which is up every 2 minutes.
Surgical Strikes is far less than that.
My point just is, riccardo171 is a big boy: he can take care of himself just fine, like most top PvP-ers. I'm not keeping track of such things, of course, but from the way he talks, I hardly get the impression he's losing every match since SS3. So, I'd say the cries for nerfs are highly exaggerated.
I don't speak for him, but I think that the point he's trying to make (and one that I agree with) is that it's very hard to defense against SS3.
DHCs are hitting for 60k+. Routinely. Off of one hit out of a single DHC's firing cycle.
That 60k hit is difficult (but not impossible) to defend against. But it becomes truly difficult/nigh impossible at times to defend against strings of 60k hits from 4 or 5 DHCs.
It's quite easy to put out damage that's well over 4x a player's HP in a single pass - and that's factoring in healing and resistances.
Fair points.
Well, in that case, let's add a -40% CrtD bonus to the ability against players then, as someone suggested. Or remove the +40% [Acc] against players (so zippier targets have a chance again). Then everyone's is happy, including me.
Dude, to find out how Surgical is I had to try them first.
The first thing I tried, I landed that hit.
And it was the last time I used it, hence if I wanted I could do it again, but I don't.
Praxi5 just nailed it. I don't lose every match I do because, I'll say it, I'm a veteran PvPer, I know how to avoid even the worst of the tricks. However new players don't, if they face Surgical the first thing they're going to do is not come back to PvP.
To make PvP appealing you need to balance it, you gotta be really stupid to not understand that.
While I agree that code branching or having different effects for PvP would be awesome, history has proven that it doesn't work/they can't do it.
They have a hard enough time managing a single code branch as is, and the existing PvP mods they have either don't work or are laughable at best.
Yep, that's the level you're at. I expected nothing else, tbh. So, as you were! Or, as you are, I should say.
you're still below my level.
Exactly.
But look at Evade Target Lock (accuracy reduction only works against players); they were apparently able to differentiate just fine. I say they should continue on that path! Then we won't have these discussions all the time.
No, it didn't. It's information...overexplained perhaps, but it's easier to do that and answer potential questions rather than leave something without explanation, yeah? I have no problem spending a bit of time on things like that to try to help folks out.
I'm not particularly sure where the aggro is coming from, but you can go choke on it, fall off a roof into traffic, and not be noticed for a week until somebody comes along to scrape you off the road with a toothbrush into a little plastic baggy...
edit: Cause you know, there are still folks talking about SS3 as if it's better than other choices. Sure, it's better than Boarding Party 3...but folks are talking about it as if it's salvation for the meek. That kind of talk is just /facepalm.
Yep.
But, for some reason, they also decided in the same category of Intel that it would be OK to have chain disables and damage that scales well beyond player defense.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - we really just need a hefty balance pass. It'll bring everything in line to a baseline (reducing some effectiveness, but mostly buffing other items), bring under-performing/casual players up, and help them move NPC HP in a healthy direction.
It's one of those funny things, yeah? Compare the various Tac, Eng, and Sci Cmdr R3 abilities, right? Not quite balanced, eh? Then add in the Int Cmdr R3 abilities, no? Not quite balanced, eh? Then pair the Intel hybrid seat with Tac, Eng, and Sci...working in the fun from those previous two comparisons, yeah?
Can be painful to look at...meh.
Not that I am against it, but:
its a huge Time- and money-costs, and in short and middle-term no quantifyable return of investment.
Well, if you (and other players) would be happy to supply the money for this adventure, I am sure cryptic would have an open ear.
If not, well, then we are certainly to far down the road to make a quick, easy and costsaving fix.
Why, I actually *am* against it.
That's the sad truth.
It would do heaps to improve player experience, but nothing to improve Cryptic's bottom line. Hence why we'll never see it.
Heck, people have been saying that Tachyon Beam is useless forever now and it fell on deaf ears - until it was time to perk up new Command ship sales, since one of their abilities is Tachyon Beam based.
It's only going to get worse. Kind of like...if one brought it up a year ago, it's worse now than it was. Or if somebody brought it up two years ago, it was already worse a year ago. If somebody brought it up three years ago, likewise it was worse a year later.
They've taken steps to look at the long term for the game...would think they've realized what a mess they've got on their hands with certain other things, so much like there have been revamps - there will be continued revamps.
They know they can't just keep going the way they've gone in the past - they've shown that by trying to address things, even if the left hand sometimes doesn't appear to know what the right hand is doing.
In Space, there are 5 Captain Abilities, and 3 Personal Traits that separate the Careers.
Attack Pattern Alpha
Fire On My Mark
Tactical Initiative
Go Down Fighting
Tactical Fleet
-Crippling Fire
-Last Ditch Effort
-Fleet Tactician
Rotate Shield Frequency
EPS Power Transfer
Nadion Inversion
Miracle Worker
Engineering Fleet
-EPS Manifold Efficiency
-Grace Under Fire
-Fleet Technician
Sensor Scan
Subnucleonic Beam
Scattering Field
Photonic Fleet
Science Fleet
-Conservation of Energy
-Photonic Capacitor
-Fleet Physicist
Everything else that goes into a build for Space...is not Career-restricted. Choice of Career may very well influence choices made, but it does not restrict things. If somebody wants to do a Tac Healer, somebody wants to do Eng DPS, somebody wants to do Sci Tank...etc, etc, etc. Will they perhaps do it as well as another Career choice? That's going to get into specifics of builds and not generalities...the generalities would come about from those eight things for each of the Careers and how they could potentially affect anything being done.
Not everything has to be the same, imho - just has to be on the same level for whatever is being done and have some sort of equal footing for need, eh?
SS1/2/3 are working as intended they don't need fixing in PvE their fine as they are, Doing the job of helping new players do some decent dps
Maybe in PvP they need a fix verses player
As far as fixing PvP it will fix nothing at all because so much is broken and OP new players stand no chance at all of having any fun in PvP
OP abilitys combined with OP gear combined with Veteran players combined with pay to win will keep PvP unfun and broken for the majority of the community and they wont play it more than a few times
saying SS3 is the last important thing to do is laffable at best it wouldn't even be the tip of the iceburg to fixing PvP
Its been this way over 3 years that I have been in the game
The only possible way to balance PvP is remove it from the PvE server first such as placing PvP on Red Shirt server so mechanic balance passes can be done there and not interfear with holo deck server
PvP and PvE are so different their separate games and cannot coexist on the same server. To keep a balance on both would be a impossible job
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I've never understood that thought process. It's never made sense to me. Cause usually what I see being said there has nothing to do with PvP and PvE...
...it's usually more along the lines of Challenge cannot coexist with Challenged Players on the same server.
Cause even if PvP were removed, there would still be an issue...you'd still have your gamers, your average players, and that group of Jerry's Kids.
I mean, seriously, how can they even balance PvE when they've going folks doing 2k, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k, 30k, 45k, 50k, 60k, 75k or more DPS? It has nothing to do with PvP...it's PvE that's got the balance issue. How do they create content when they've got that wide a gap from their players?
It's very simple.
That's a concept of PVE. Kind of comes off as arts 'n crafts for the special needs kids...kind of PVE.
That some of the kids are able to lob those thermonuclear grenades into barrels of goldfish faster than some of the other kids...doesn't change that.
They've had to create a challenge for themselves because the content itself offers them no challenge.
If the PvE in this game offered any kind of challenge - then it would be closer to what PvP offers. There wouldn't be as much difficulty developing/balancing for the two...
...it's only when PvE content consists of figuring out which flip-flop goes on which foot, that something that might require being able to tie shoelaces would become a problem.
Ever notice that there tends to be an inordinate amount of sociopaths on the forums here compared to other games? I think it's the PvE...it's like holding a magnifying glass to ants, it's like pulling wings off of flies, and moving on up from there - it's a breeding ground of that kind of behavior where folks commit genocide and pat themselves on the back for a good job! It's disgusting.
Also, the 'gap' you mention between PvE players has nothing to do with any alleged unbalance, but with the way the cycling mechanism works in this game: some there be that understand the process, and hence do 5x as much DPS as someone else. Others, the so-called 'spacebar meshers', don't, and stay at 10k, or below. It has *nothing* to do with SS vs. BFAW, etc. Give, say, RyanSTO my Phantom, or Jena, and they'll do 150k in it (or higher); whereas I'm lucky to hit 40k, on a good day.
That they can do 150k and you only 40k...is an imbalance. How can Cryptic design content when one of their players can do 150k and one only can do 40k, eh?
It's like somebody gave you an apple and you want to argue it's not an apple after thanking them for giving you an apple. The cognitive dissonance is nauseating. Hell, this thread's been full of it - the folks that were trying to defend SS as not being overpowered by saying it's the most powerful thing. Just what kind of freaking drugs are they on? No, show the numbers - hey, it's not the most powerful thing - it's going to depend on this and that, sometimes better, sometimes worse...generally balanced, yeah? No, got folks saying it's not overpowered but it's the most powerful...
...I'm done with this thread. I can feel more braincells dying the longer I'm bothering with it.
This is kind of why, I always said we as captains when it comes to our own game mechanics skills, are somewhat nothing more than glorified boffs.
We get 5 innate skills to activate vs a commander boffs 4.
We get 2 ground weapons + kits vs boffs 1 ground weapon & no kit.
Generalized skills effectively aid both ourselves and, boffs.
Boffs get traits but, we of course get more and, even have the ability to swap them.
Rep traits work to aid both ourselves and, boffs in most cases or, are just generalized aid for any given scenario.
All we are really there for, is to control things and, make them happen with our choices.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yes, its like building a house, if the fundament is shaky, it doesnt matter how solid the walls are. And they messed up from the beginning without even attempting to compensate.
Well, if they would offer a real tutorial, one where you dont go to the tailor, but to the BO-Trainer, where you learn what what skilltree does, what powerlevels do, how damage stacking work (and maybe bring that in line so we only have one damage-stacking-process and not two or more) and provide a real help-side.
I am sure there are a lot of players which could contribute here. The dps-league alone has at least three prominent guide-writers in their upper echolons, and numerous more with knowledge around all different kind of builds.
The problem for new players is the following:
1.they dont find useful information ingame, some information there is even bluntly wrong.
2. if they search for information they get a lot of unuseful informations either, because everyone can give their two cents. Hell, there are scimis on youtube which have trouble with killing probes in kasa, but are advertised as "build suggestion/great build"
3. of course there are a lot new players who dont want to (extensively) search for information, so you have to "force" it onto them, like "for build informaton and mechanics, visit www.stomechanics.arc.com" or something.
With this, you could at least get an average number for the "lower" echolons. Basically bringing the average dps from 3-8k to 8-12k.
And then you can far easier implement new stuff, because the variety (and I think thats only important from 1k-30k) is diminished. Hell, DR wouldnt have been any problem, there would have been some rants, but not nearly as much as we had. As we had because "its more difficult now", while the difficutly has basically not changed. The time to complete has.
I wouldn't call the situation with the cycling mechanism unbalanced, no. You could ere call it 'broken', perhaps, in that it's not intuitive to new players, who are, for the most part, blissfully unaware of how it works. Kinda like -- here cometh the Internet car analogy -- stepping on the gas, whilst also applying the brakes at the same time: it's 'working as intended' that way, and allowed, but not very efficient; and a driver who knows what he/she is doing, will never do it, of course.
I don't know numbers; you know that.