When used, even the weapons dmg rates do not suffer any means of penalty despite the slower ROF and, come on a huge increase to CRTH + CRTD & dmg gain!!!
So, looking at the info for the skill on a BOFF; it gives us the following information:
SS1: +20% Accuracy, +20% Critical Hit Chance, Reduce Rate of Fire (folks have said it's half, yeah?)SS2: +30% Accuracy, +30% Critical Hit Chance, Reduce Rate of Fire
SS3: +40% Accuracy, +40% Critical Hit Chance, Reduce Rate of Fire
Which is something that it's not saying on the info for the ability there on the BOFF...it's something that you see when looking at the Available Skills - Drag To Try window and a weapon.
So...
SS1: +20% Accuracy, +20% Critical Hit Chance, Reduce Rate of Fire, & 2.0x Damage
SS2: +30% Accuracy, +30% Critical Hit Chance, Reduce Rate of Fire, & 2.4x Damage
SS3: +40% Accuracy, +40% Critical Hit Chance, Reduce Rate of Fire, & 2.8x Damage
Now if we were to take a look at the following formula...
It's one of the "final" modifiers to damage, basically meaning that you figure out what your damage is from everything else and you can multiply it by 2.0, 2.4, or 2.8 to get the damage done.
How does this compare to say Beam Overload? BO actually uses two parts from that formula.
The WeaponEnhancementBaseModifier was the reduction added since a BO is always a Critical Hit.
It's a 35% reduction. The base is dropped to 65% for a BO. (1 - 0.35) = 0.65 sort of thing.
The WeaponEnhancementBoost is 5.0, 6.25, & 7.5 for the respective BO1, BO2, BO3.
Both are also "final" modifiers, and they can even be combined to generate a single modifier to be applied. Basically just multiply the 0.65 * 6.0/7.25/8.5...to get 3.9/4.7125/5.525 for your modifiers.
Okay then, so let's take a look at that comparison, yeah? Say BO3 vs. SS3? Say 8x Arrays vs. 8x Arrays, eh?
With the BO3, there will be a single Array that does the BO3 attack. It will be a guaranteed Critical Hit if it hits (100% Critical Hit Chance) and do ~5.525% the Standard Hit. It will drain no Weapon Power. The other 7 Arrays will each drop out a Standard Hit.
With the SS3, all Arrays will benefit...each will get the +40% Accuracy, +40% Critical Hit Chance, and each do 280% the Standard Hit.
The total for each weapon from the BO3 group firing once?
5.525x Standard
7x Standard
12.525x Standard
The total for each weapon from the SS3 group firing once?
2.8x 8x Standard
22.4x Standard
What if we looked at the entire firing cycle while going with SS having half the shots?
The BO3 group...
5.525x Standard (the BO3 consumes all shots)
4x 7x Standard
33.525x Standard
The SS3 group...
2x 2.8x 8x Standard
44.8x Standard
Now of course, that's ignoring Critical Hit Chance (and thus Critical Hit Severity) as well as just the outright boost to Accuracy.
The SS3 hits will be more likely to be Critical Hits than the Standard Hits and more likely even to hit in the first place...so it's going to be even better than what's listed there.
Given that the increase to damage is not listed in the info for the BOFFs...is that increase to damage meant to be there or is it just missing from the BOFF info?
One can easily test a Critical Hit from a Standard Shot to that of a Critical Hit from a Surgical Strikes Shot to see that there is the increase in damage there as well.
Pretty sure that the damage increase thing has been brought up by players previously...just can't remember.
I'm not going to bug report it...maybe if they ever get around to buffing Chrons/Trans/Elachi TS to bring it inline with the 170%/200%/240%; then maybe I'll start posting bug reports on things like this again.
That is correct, it is half the standard fire rate and, is why if looking at the dmg value tool tip on weapons when activated, will display no less than 2X the base dmg but, still show virtually the same dps rating as if it were not being used.
In other words, SS1-SS3 fires at half the ROF as normal but, has 2X - 2.8X the standard base dmg=same dps rating but, now has the ability with each and every shot, to inflict greater dmg for what few shots it does get.
In essence, even if you didn't somehow manage to land a single crth, your effective dps would still come out no less than or, greater than if you had decided to fire at under normal circumstances minus any crtd effectiveness in either scenario.
It is as good, if not better w/o crtd & crth being accounted for itself and, standard fire.
Than simply relying on base dmg cycles minus the same crtd & crth granted from the SS skill.
As an example: (not 100% accuracy, as it is just an imaginary example I am using)
Normal Shot: 995
SS1: 1990.1 (200%)
Player A base crth=+20% & crtd=+95%
Let's say the 995 dmg per shot = 800dps respectively at 4 shots per 5-6 secs.
Effectively they rate SS1 @ 1990.1 dmg per shot (+200% dmg base) = 800dps respectively at 2 shots per 5-6secs.
However, both are effected by the same crth & crtd as your base values, not including SS1 own extra acc, crth + crtd from any overflow enhancements so, even if the extra crth & crtd from SS1 wasn't applied, the potential 1990.1 dmg vs 995 if and when it does crit can be deadlier but, this is provided that taking in consideration of 2 shots vs 4 shots within the same 5-6secs., that the regular firing cycle doesn't accomplish more crth's than SS1 would achieve.
So, provided only 1 crth landed in either scenario, than SS1 would come out on top but, if 2-4 was accomplished by regular fire, than regular fire would come out better than the single crth from SS1 minus the skills own crth & crtd enhancements added into play and, just going off of player(s) base crth & crtd values.
I said nothing and won't say anything...not after the butchering they've talked about for [Pla] when all it needed was the tweak to the G13/G14 because they hadn't considered that when they initially did them. All the other planned changes to the [Pla] kind of royally TRIBBLE me off.
Oh, I'll stop here for a moment, mind you. That's incorrect already, you know? Cause there's a 0.5s activation delay. The RoF is actually 4/5.5 and not 4/5 as the tooltip suggests. Okay then, back to where I was going...
So yeah, the tooltips suggest that halving of the RoF with the lil' DPS numbers there.
But here's what the little box says...
No mention of any increase in damage. It says it increases Acc/CrtH but RoF will be reduced in exchange for that Acc/CrtH.
If you increase the damage while reducing the RoF...then why is that "However" there?
Just doesn't seem like the damage part is supposed to be there...
...but I'm not going to say that.
I am not in a disagreement with you by no means virus but, I think they did this simply to make it seem attractive vs normal fire due to the 1/2 ROF.
This way, even if SS1-3 didn't manage a single crth, it wouldn't seem like that 1/2 ROF was a complete waste of time in a sense so, you still wind up with no less than your basic dps dmg value during the course of weapons fire cycles and skill cycles.
This is kind of why I stated earlier that IMO yes, it is deemed OP because, you pretty much sacrifice nothing using it really, other than a 1/2 ROF which is negligible in only certain circumstances at best.
Surgical Strikes 3 is pretty much working as intended. How else would you make a dent in the huge damage sponges that populate elite instances? It's merely a symptom of poor balancing between pve and pvp.
I don't always feel like endlessly grinding for hours with little to gain from it. But when I do, I choose Star Trek Online
Did you expect something else from a skill increasing CtrH AND ACC for 40% ? I mean, anyone with a modicum of knowledge in STO would see that right away. Sadly, the devs didn't.
All you have to do is stack CtrD and you have a crazy spike DPS machine. Don't need anything else, thanks to the spec tree, the various traits, unique console and proper BOFF, that much increase in crit and acc (remember, overflow) means you have a perma crit skill.
Beam overload ? Pff, noob skill, now we have a buff that does the same for several seconds, and not only the next shot.
I think comparing Surgical Strikes to Beam Overload is a bit misleaidng. Beam Overload is a Ensign to Lt.Cmdr ability, Surgical Strikes is Lt.Cmdr to Cmdr, IIRC. BO III is a Lt.Cmdr ability, SS III is a Cmdr ability. A power difference there is to be expected.
The better comparison is Cannon Rapid Fire.
Of course, it seems it beats CRF handily, because I don't remember a lot of complains of CRF being too good. I think many would even prefer Attack Pattern Omega over it - if they use cannons at all, of course.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Surgical Strikes 3 is pretty much working as intended. How else would you make a dent in the huge damage sponges that populate elite instances? It's merely a symptom of poor balancing between pve and pvp.
Yes, like so many other things unfortunately, we as the player(s) are stuck doing the vast majority of testing such things.
Meh, I guess the gist of where I'm coming from on it is that it's not something that I use...so I don't really care, lol. I was bored, it getting mentioned caught my eye, so I looked...and it was basically a whatever sort of thing, cause it's not something I'm using. There's no "I'm using something that's working better than other stuff I'm using" thing to cause me to go off complaining about it. TS Neutronics, Enhanced Armor Penetration, Load Viral Torpedo, Ionic Turbulence (even though I would have been fine either with the change or the tooltip being changed), and Hell - I still complain about the 3pc Contractual Agreement's applying the CD reduction to everything but Rep abilities. Stuff I use, that I want to enjoy, without having any sort of nagging feeling that it's broken there... SS? I don't use it. Don't care. Not going to complain nor advocate any changes to it. The mechanics were interesting to look at for a moment in a moment of boredom...but meh, that's that...I'm done with it, and off I go. Have to do my Kobali stuff to get some APCs...cause I'm dorking around with all sorts of turn boosts for a DHC Command boat. Wheeeee...
I myself don't use it really but, I have used it before and, this is where I started noting how the skill mechanics revolving around this skill function to some degree but, further testing is always needed to dive deeper into such implemented game mechanics as always.
I don't find SS1 2 and 3 particularly OP, not for a cmdr level ability, it is not stronger AT ALL compared to HY3 and BO3 versus a ship. In fact - slower rate of fire makes sure that the opponent can still have time to heal or to escape.
Overflow ACC-CRTD is strong but that's all: seeing what comparable Tac skills at ltc. and cmdr. level can do in one activation SS is weak in comparison.
I'm not even a fan of that skill, it's appropriate for cmdr level i'll say where you can have APO3, CRF3 or APB3 otherwise, and on ltc. slot HY3 TS3 BO3 OSS3 beat SS1 by 10 miles.
Only thing that is still bugged is that you can fire it from EB cloak.
I don't find SS1 2 and 3 particularly OP, not for a cmdr level ability, it is not stronger AT ALL compared to HY3 and BO3 versus a ship. In fact - slower rate of fire makes sure that the opponent can still have time to heal or to escape.
Overflow ACC-CRTD is strong but that's all: seeing what comparable Tac skills at ltc. and cmdr. level can do in one activation SS is weak in comparison.
I'm not even a fan of that skill, it's appropriate for cmdr level i'll say where you can have APO3, CRF3 or APB3 otherwise, and on ltc. slot HY3 TS3 BO3 OSS3 beat SS1 by 10 miles.
Only thing that is still bugged is that you can fire it from EB cloak.
I thought they fixed being able to fire it from EBC?! I'm fair 100% sure I read that in last week's patch notes.
Anyone with half a brain could see that OSS and Ionic Turbulence were going to be gamechangers from the start, and that SS had the potential to be.
I knew that. Some others knew that. However, the boards and various channels were filled with that chatter. I honestly attribute it to tons of people refusing to believe something else new coming along and is overall a decent alternative to what they already know. Refusing to actually believe that something like Surgical Strikes is a good attack. There's still tons out there that refuse to believe that OSS does some great things for a build. There's still tons out there that believe OSS *replaces* Emergency Powers, so they won't remove their EPTx.
Even when people on various channels were spouting completely wrong misinformation about things like OSS, SS, Ionic Turbulence, etc, and you have them look at the real numbers, they still refused to believe they were bonafide, good abilities. Even when you have them read out loud that OSS allows you to go over the power caps, they refuse to believe what that does for your performance.
That mindset is still out there, though diminished. It's just some people, one way or another, were finally slapped across the face with a large frozen salmon that there are more good things out there to improve your performance.
Its neither OP nor broken in terms of what you need for PvE. And thats whats important.
Sure, its op in pvp, but what exactly isnt op in pvp? PvP is not catered in this game, and some players have to accept, that if you cant play by the environment, you have to implement rules like the vanilla pvp to make it more... fair. And that you have to organize yourself like we from the dps channels do. I believe there is a fair share of pvp-chans out there, which cater rules and thus "OP"-Stuff can be ignored.
Nerf SS in any way and it will be another obsolete power for pve, which is what the game is designed for. But of course its easier to just cry out and ruin a power instead of thinking of a method to become independ of a changing envorenment.
And people were saying when DR released that Intel was completely useless
They were also saying T5 = T6 :eek::D
Some people truly wanted to believe Cryptic when they said T5 would not become obsolete.
Guess what, T5 now are as much obsolete as T4 before DR. You can fly them, and they'll work in endgame content, but let's be honest a second, they are not competitive.
I think comparing Surgical Strikes to Beam Overload is a bit misleaidng. Beam Overload is a Ensign to Lt.Cmdr ability, Surgical Strikes is Lt.Cmdr to Cmdr, IIRC. BO III is a Lt.Cmdr ability, SS III is a Cmdr ability. A power difference there is to be expected.
The better comparison is Cannon Rapid Fire.
Of course, it seems it beats CRF handily, because I don't remember a lot of complains of CRF being too good. I think many would even prefer Attack Pattern Omega over it - if they use cannons at all, of course.
While that's true, let's notice something REALLY important IMO :
SS is an "attack" buff skill, yet it's not a tac skill. Usually defensive heavy ship have limited offensive abilities. For obvious balance. This is not true in this case, as a com engi can be turned in a SS3 skill, which is highly offensive. On top of any tac skill you already have. While not loosing much on the defensive side (you still have up to ltcom engi in this case, on top of everything else you probably have).
Obviously, it's still limited to a few ship, in this case I'm mostly thinking of the T6 fed cruiser (phantom ? eclipse ? I never remember the name). But T6 are only a few months old. Given time, we'll see more of those.
And yes, SS put CRF to shame. Even if cannons really sucks with SS. It's another skill which shines with beams.
Some people truly wanted to believe Cryptic when they said T5 would not become obsolete.
Guess what, T5 now are as much obsolete as T4 before DR. You can fly them, and they'll work in endgame content, but let's be honest a second, they are not competitive.
I can only see that for escorts, if you are comparing ship vs. ship (e.g. traits can be used on all). The eclipse is the only enhancement over the avenger. The klingons got a nice raptor. The romulans got an improvement to their escort carrier, but either species lack good shiptraits on their own (all hands on deck is factionless). And even this is highly depend if you use SS vs CSV, and with which dps.
On Sciship-Side the vesta still prevails in any way.
On DPS-Side, the Scimitar, as we all know a T6...ehm wait T5, it was T5, wasnt it? The Scimitar is still on top. Actually there is no Intelship that can go as high (and which would also loose against the aquadic carrier), because at certain dps-regions, faw prevails over SS. SS has the same problem DHCs have since two years: They are strong in the lower to medium-range dps, but at a certain point they are just to "slow" for faw-beams. Sure, they can use OSS, but therefore lack tactical BOs, tactical consoles and/or hangars.
To simply say "T6 is always better than T5" is just shortsighted. There is far more to consider to a ship than one more slotable BO-Skill and the possibility to run some new abilities.
1. you cant sell shiny new ships to the new players and poor playing old players unless it has something extra going for it.. T-6 intel ships
2. with SS you get a 1 button dps equalizer that boosts a poor players DPS or even a new players dps who understands very little about the game
3. This makes the T-6 intel ships the ship of choice
4. veteran players don't need it , Some scoff at it and fly there t-5U ships with precision
Its a win win for cryptic and don't look for it to change
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
they should just add -20% crtD against player ships. The Tachyon platform and flanking both do less damage to player ships, I don't see why this wouldn't work for SS.
On Sciship-Side the vesta still prevails in any way.
I'd agree. The Pathfinder gives it a run for it's money, but the Vesta's console lay out when upgraded and unique consoles are still amazing.
Especially when you combine the Fermion Field (heal) with the Dauntless Trait, the Graviton Shield against Neutronic, the Phaser lance against NPCs (my Tac can get it above 10K/tick), and Bubble against SS/Vapers combined with FBP.
I can only see that for escorts, if you are comparing ship vs. ship (e.g. traits can be used on all). The eclipse is the only enhancement over the avenger. The klingons got a nice raptor. The romulans got an improvement to their escort carrier, but either species lack good shiptraits on their own (all hands on deck is factionless). And even this is highly depend if you use SS vs CSV, and with which dps.
On Sciship-Side the vesta still prevails in any way.
On DPS-Side, the Scimitar, as we all know a T6...ehm wait T5, it was T5, wasnt it? The Scimitar is still on top. Actually there is no Intelship that can go as high (and which would also loose against the aquadic carrier), because at certain dps-regions, faw prevails over SS. SS has the same problem DHCs have since two years: They are strong in the lower to medium-range dps, but at a certain point they are just to "slow" for faw-beams. Sure, they can use OSS, but therefore lack tactical BOs, tactical consoles and/or hangars.
To simply say "T6 is always better than T5" is just shortsighted. There is far more to consider to a ship than one more slotable BO-Skill and the possibility to run some new abilities.
No good shiptraits ? Like reciprocity perhaps ? And I don't know why you stop at faction ship, after all we are comparing t5 with t6, not factions ships.
The scimitard was totally OP when it was released. It will takes some time to surpass it, just like the bugship in its time.
As I said, the t6 are new, and not many of them allow for a proper use of SS/OSS. Given time, more of them will allow that. And since those are intel skill, still allow for tac skill to be used freely.
My t6 fed cruiser have both SS and BFAW/apb.
As for the lack of tac console, the only thing worth it on those console is the crit bonus from spire console. The damage increase by itself is really small in the end, and barely noticeable. SS provide such a large boost to crit, it almost makes the spire console looks rather weak in comparison.
Comparing Surgical Strikes to BO3 is a nonsensical comparison. It's not even similar. BO only buffs ONE attack of one beam weapon, then goes into full cooldown.
Instead, you should compare two CMDR leve skills that buff all weapons for the duration of the special skill effect. Compare it to CRF3, and not BO3.
Hell, if you want to compare to a beam buffing skill (though, there's nothing that says you have to) why not FAW3?
Really, it is apples and oranges.
As it stands, there's precious little reason to ever run Intel boffs. SS3 is the only real reason of the lot, and only select ships amongst the intel ships can run SS3.
Crying for a nerf? Puh-leeze. There's no proof it's even OP at this point. It's just one whiner who got hit by it in a PvP match.
Next they'll outlaw shields. What about those boff skills, yeah? Somebody used them and I died! OP??!?!? NERF PLEZ!
this should be in PvP forums. the test is primarily in PvP rather than PvE.
SS3 is anything but OP or broken in PvE.
It has been Standard Operating procedure of PvPers, nerf something rather than adapt. It only benefits 400 PvP players or around 12 hardcore PvPers who spend more time in the forums rather than PvPing at the expense of millions of PvEers.
In PvE, T5Us are still superior than T6. But then again those whining in this thread about T6 superiority are PvPers.
this should be in PvP forums. the test is primarily in PvP rather than PvE.
SS3 is anything but OP or broken in PvE.
It has been Standard Operating procedure of PvPers, nerf something rather than adapt. It only benefits 400 PvP players or around 12 hardcore PvPers who spend more time in the forums rather than PvPing at the expense of millions of PvEers.
In PvE, T5Us are still superior than T6. But then again those whining in this thread about T6 superiority are PvPers.
I'm quoting this post for truth, and for posterity. And thank you for it!
suzy32
Member Posts: 383 Arc User
Comments
It's WAI, it's just a very strong skill in PvP from what I hear (and see).
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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Build questions? Look here!
Is it broken?
No, not according to its description!
Is it OP?
Well, of course it is!
When used, even the weapons dmg rates do not suffer any means of penalty despite the slower ROF and, come on a huge increase to CRTH + CRTD & dmg gain!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
That is correct, it is half the standard fire rate and, is why if looking at the dmg value tool tip on weapons when activated, will display no less than 2X the base dmg but, still show virtually the same dps rating as if it were not being used.
In other words, SS1-SS3 fires at half the ROF as normal but, has 2X - 2.8X the standard base dmg=same dps rating but, now has the ability with each and every shot, to inflict greater dmg for what few shots it does get.
In essence, even if you didn't somehow manage to land a single crth, your effective dps would still come out no less than or, greater than if you had decided to fire at under normal circumstances minus any crtd effectiveness in either scenario.
It is as good, if not better w/o crtd & crth being accounted for itself and, standard fire.
Than simply relying on base dmg cycles minus the same crtd & crth granted from the SS skill.
As an example: (not 100% accuracy, as it is just an imaginary example I am using)
Normal Shot: 995
SS1: 1990.1 (200%)
Player A base crth=+20% & crtd=+95%
Let's say the 995 dmg per shot = 800dps respectively at 4 shots per 5-6 secs.
Effectively they rate SS1 @ 1990.1 dmg per shot (+200% dmg base) = 800dps respectively at 2 shots per 5-6secs.
However, both are effected by the same crth & crtd as your base values, not including SS1 own extra acc, crth + crtd from any overflow enhancements so, even if the extra crth & crtd from SS1 wasn't applied, the potential 1990.1 dmg vs 995 if and when it does crit can be deadlier but, this is provided that taking in consideration of 2 shots vs 4 shots within the same 5-6secs., that the regular firing cycle doesn't accomplish more crth's than SS1 would achieve.
So, provided only 1 crth landed in either scenario, than SS1 would come out on top but, if 2-4 was accomplished by regular fire, than regular fire would come out better than the single crth from SS1 minus the skills own crth & crtd enhancements added into play and, just going off of player(s) base crth & crtd values.
Hope this makes some sense?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I am not in a disagreement with you by no means virus but, I think they did this simply to make it seem attractive vs normal fire due to the 1/2 ROF.
This way, even if SS1-3 didn't manage a single crth, it wouldn't seem like that 1/2 ROF was a complete waste of time in a sense so, you still wind up with no less than your basic dps dmg value during the course of weapons fire cycles and skill cycles.
This is kind of why I stated earlier that IMO yes, it is deemed OP because, you pretty much sacrifice nothing using it really, other than a 1/2 ROF which is negligible in only certain circumstances at best.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
All you have to do is stack CtrD and you have a crazy spike DPS machine. Don't need anything else, thanks to the spec tree, the various traits, unique console and proper BOFF, that much increase in crit and acc (remember, overflow) means you have a perma crit skill.
Beam overload ? Pff, noob skill, now we have a buff that does the same for several seconds, and not only the next shot.
The better comparison is Cannon Rapid Fire.
Of course, it seems it beats CRF handily, because I don't remember a lot of complains of CRF being too good. I think many would even prefer Attack Pattern Omega over it - if they use cannons at all, of course.
Yes, like so many other things unfortunately, we as the player(s) are stuck doing the vast majority of testing such things.
I myself don't use it really but, I have used it before and, this is where I started noting how the skill mechanics revolving around this skill function to some degree but, further testing is always needed to dive deeper into such implemented game mechanics as always.
Hence why your involvement is never un-welcomed!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Overflow ACC-CRTD is strong but that's all: seeing what comparable Tac skills at ltc. and cmdr. level can do in one activation SS is weak in comparison.
I'm not even a fan of that skill, it's appropriate for cmdr level i'll say where you can have APO3, CRF3 or APB3 otherwise, and on ltc. slot HY3 TS3 BO3 OSS3 beat SS1 by 10 miles.
Only thing that is still bugged is that you can fire it from EB cloak.
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I thought they fixed being able to fire it from EBC?! I'm fair 100% sure I read that in last week's patch notes.
They were also saying T5 = T6 :eek::D
Tried my Faeht in few patrols yesterday, SS3 would activate from EBC.
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If they actually did a balance pass and removed a big chunk of the HP, they could tone this skill down and make it better for everyone.
Who said that?
Anyone with half a brain could see that OSS and Ionic Turbulence were going to be gamechangers from the start, and that SS had the potential to be.
I knew that. Some others knew that. However, the boards and various channels were filled with that chatter. I honestly attribute it to tons of people refusing to believe something else new coming along and is overall a decent alternative to what they already know. Refusing to actually believe that something like Surgical Strikes is a good attack. There's still tons out there that refuse to believe that OSS does some great things for a build. There's still tons out there that believe OSS *replaces* Emergency Powers, so they won't remove their EPTx.
Even when people on various channels were spouting completely wrong misinformation about things like OSS, SS, Ionic Turbulence, etc, and you have them look at the real numbers, they still refused to believe they were bonafide, good abilities. Even when you have them read out loud that OSS allows you to go over the power caps, they refuse to believe what that does for your performance.
That mindset is still out there, though diminished. It's just some people, one way or another, were finally slapped across the face with a large frozen salmon that there are more good things out there to improve your performance.
Sure, its op in pvp, but what exactly isnt op in pvp? PvP is not catered in this game, and some players have to accept, that if you cant play by the environment, you have to implement rules like the vanilla pvp to make it more... fair. And that you have to organize yourself like we from the dps channels do. I believe there is a fair share of pvp-chans out there, which cater rules and thus "OP"-Stuff can be ignored.
Nerf SS in any way and it will be another obsolete power for pve, which is what the game is designed for. But of course its easier to just cry out and ruin a power instead of thinking of a method to become independ of a changing envorenment.
Guess what, T5 now are as much obsolete as T4 before DR. You can fly them, and they'll work in endgame content, but let's be honest a second, they are not competitive.
While that's true, let's notice something REALLY important IMO :
SS is an "attack" buff skill, yet it's not a tac skill. Usually defensive heavy ship have limited offensive abilities. For obvious balance. This is not true in this case, as a com engi can be turned in a SS3 skill, which is highly offensive. On top of any tac skill you already have. While not loosing much on the defensive side (you still have up to ltcom engi in this case, on top of everything else you probably have).
Obviously, it's still limited to a few ship, in this case I'm mostly thinking of the T6 fed cruiser (phantom ? eclipse ? I never remember the name). But T6 are only a few months old. Given time, we'll see more of those.
And yes, SS put CRF to shame. Even if cannons really sucks with SS. It's another skill which shines with beams.
I can only see that for escorts, if you are comparing ship vs. ship (e.g. traits can be used on all). The eclipse is the only enhancement over the avenger. The klingons got a nice raptor. The romulans got an improvement to their escort carrier, but either species lack good shiptraits on their own (all hands on deck is factionless). And even this is highly depend if you use SS vs CSV, and with which dps.
On Sciship-Side the vesta still prevails in any way.
On DPS-Side, the Scimitar, as we all know a T6...ehm wait T5, it was T5, wasnt it? The Scimitar is still on top. Actually there is no Intelship that can go as high (and which would also loose against the aquadic carrier), because at certain dps-regions, faw prevails over SS. SS has the same problem DHCs have since two years: They are strong in the lower to medium-range dps, but at a certain point they are just to "slow" for faw-beams. Sure, they can use OSS, but therefore lack tactical BOs, tactical consoles and/or hangars.
To simply say "T6 is always better than T5" is just shortsighted. There is far more to consider to a ship than one more slotable BO-Skill and the possibility to run some new abilities.
1. you cant sell shiny new ships to the new players and poor playing old players unless it has something extra going for it.. T-6 intel ships
2. with SS you get a 1 button dps equalizer that boosts a poor players DPS or even a new players dps who understands very little about the game
3. This makes the T-6 intel ships the ship of choice
4. veteran players don't need it , Some scoff at it and fly there t-5U ships with precision
Its a win win for cryptic and don't look for it to change
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Mon amour Aventine!
I'd agree. The Pathfinder gives it a run for it's money, but the Vesta's console lay out when upgraded and unique consoles are still amazing.
Especially when you combine the Fermion Field (heal) with the Dauntless Trait, the Graviton Shield against Neutronic, the Phaser lance against NPCs (my Tac can get it above 10K/tick), and Bubble against SS/Vapers combined with FBP.
The scimitard was totally OP when it was released. It will takes some time to surpass it, just like the bugship in its time.
As I said, the t6 are new, and not many of them allow for a proper use of SS/OSS. Given time, more of them will allow that. And since those are intel skill, still allow for tac skill to be used freely.
My t6 fed cruiser have both SS and BFAW/apb.
As for the lack of tac console, the only thing worth it on those console is the crit bonus from spire console. The damage increase by itself is really small in the end, and barely noticeable. SS provide such a large boost to crit, it almost makes the spire console looks rather weak in comparison.
Instead, you should compare two CMDR leve skills that buff all weapons for the duration of the special skill effect. Compare it to CRF3, and not BO3.
Hell, if you want to compare to a beam buffing skill (though, there's nothing that says you have to) why not FAW3?
Really, it is apples and oranges.
As it stands, there's precious little reason to ever run Intel boffs. SS3 is the only real reason of the lot, and only select ships amongst the intel ships can run SS3.
Crying for a nerf? Puh-leeze. There's no proof it's even OP at this point. It's just one whiner who got hit by it in a PvP match.
Next they'll outlaw shields. What about those boff skills, yeah? Somebody used them and I died! OP??!?!? NERF PLEZ!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
SS3 is anything but OP or broken in PvE.
It has been Standard Operating procedure of PvPers, nerf something rather than adapt. It only benefits 400 PvP players or around 12 hardcore PvPers who spend more time in the forums rather than PvPing at the expense of millions of PvEers.
In PvE, T5Us are still superior than T6. But then again those whining in this thread about T6 superiority are PvPers.
I'm quoting this post for truth, and for posterity. And thank you for it!