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Should we Reset the DPS League and Channels?

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  • ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited February 2015
    Might clear out some of the 10k riffraff as well. It was getting a bit unruly.

    +1 for a total wipe, not just 30k+

    'nuff said.

    /10chars
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    woodwhity wrote: »
    FAW was fine for a long time (remember dhc escorts?), FAW was the tanks thing. Aggroing all over the place (and tbh it would be easy to give it inherent +threat, which would discourage some players from using it). No, FAW as an ability is fine. The problem is the thing around it: Energy has become inexhaustable. There were times you couldnt fly with 8 beams without sacrificing dps. Then came 2pc Omega-Weapon-set, which had some impact. Then came experimentell romulan array, which had a big impact, plasma was more powerful than AP, and AP+the beam was more powerful than pure AP. A little rainbowish was more powerful than pure blood.

    And now? Not only do we have more weapon drain resistencies (bounty hunters friend, spire warpcore, (Marion)). And as a sidenote, Marion was once very powerful, now its only important to get .x % more dps. No, we also got energy en masse. Beams even got overcap, which DHCs lack.

    Remove plasmonic leech and the astika-trait from game, or half one and free the other from the dependency with flowcaps. This will give you far more than revamping every BO-ability in this game. Even if you can hold your weaponpower on the previous level, you will have less shields, aux and engines, hence less resistencies, heals and defence. And if you die, your dps is lost.


    FAW has become broken, but only as a sympton. Whats really broken in this game is energymanagement.

    Plasmonic leech is less of a problem than giving every FAW spamming person a free +20. At least with leech they have to spec into flow caps. I do find it amazing so many people spec into flow caps and don't use polarons or energy siphon (Well, to be fair, ES1 is borked) for an extra boost and to soften their targets.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    To no one in particular, but when has this thread become about BFAW?!
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • edited February 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    It didn't. A couple folks just push a certain ... "agenda" at every opportunity.
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Plasmonic leech is less of a problem than giving every FAW spamming person a free +20. At least with leech they have to spec into flow caps. I do find it amazing so many people spec into flow caps and don't use polarons or energy siphon (Well, to be fair, ES1 is borked) for an extra boost and to soften their targets.

    What's wrong with energy siphon 1 Lucho?
    I use it all the time, haven't noticed anything strange about it. Is there something I'm missing ?
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    What's wrong with energy siphon 1 Lucho?
    I use it all the time, haven't noticed anything strange about it. Is there something I'm missing ?

    Not realy relavent to resetting DPS league stats....
  • js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    It sounds like some people don't want the DPS league reset so they're leading the thread off on some bizarre tangent hoping that the thread descends into a flame war.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Not realy relavent to resetting DPS league stats....
    Well I asked because if it is inflating my numbers by giving me more energy then it should, then I could also be considered to be using broken methods. And it somewhat relates to dps scoring.

    But ill drop it, it is getting off topic.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    js26568 wrote: »
    It sounds like some people don't want the DPS league reset so they're leading the thread off on some bizarre tangent hoping that the thread descends into a flame war.

    It's more a group of PvP'ers. Some people who PvP and some people who PvE have issues with each other. I have an issue with the group of PvP'ers who hate a group of people in the PvE community because of how those specific PvP'ers act.

    That said, I'm still in favor of a reset for 30k+.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

    Tacs are overrated.

    Game's best wiki

    Build questions? Look here!
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    It's more a group of PvP'ers. Some people who PvP and some people who PvE have issues with each other. I have an issue with the group of PvP'ers who hate a group of people in the PvE community because of how those specific PvP'ers act.

    I love when I read these things. Not "hate", more like "feeling rightfully superior".
  • mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jjdez wrote: »
    So your argument is to lower the standard of all players in the hopes that cryptic will then somehow dumb-down the game? Are the hitpoints on advanced/elite too much for you and others? Not like the AI actually makes intelligent decisions with its extremely limited array of abilities.

    Yes HP its too much to provide balanced ship/build gameplay options. In fact if AI would've been better instaid, I asure you far less ppl wouldve complain.

    jjdez wrote: »
    I can't even remember the last time I got a spam mail in game...because there is a setting in your options that will take care of that.
    And? I have to police my email becuse someone has nothing better to do that spread my ingame handle on 3rd party sites (wich I think breaks TOS aswell)? Some folks may trade ingame with others, so an open mail is necesary. Posting @handles also leads to hacking attempts on ppl that may have the same handle as the acc ID. AFAIK you cant change that anymore, and some may not know upon account creation that acc ID and @handle may be the same...
    jjdez wrote: »
    Of course, can't be bothered to understand mechanics so why would you be bothered to change a mail setting in your options. Makes sense now.
    And of course, can't be bother to act as a decent human being and... dunno, talk to that person to get permision to post @ handle on certain sites, right??:rolleyes:

    Thats why Cryptic really needs to put a privacy option so other players, thus parsers too, to be able to see/or not the damage from that respective player. This is really starting to become a problem, if ingame via trolling and griefing, outside game with spaming from goldfarmers and posibble hacking. Its outrageous what's going on.
  • rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    For that mosul33 you'd need PWE's complaint's department to give a flying fark...
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    The easiest way is to reset the leagues.

    The second way is just too much work for the admins, and how hard is it for people to just upload a new parse? It takes a couple min.. no big deal.

    Won't effect me much, I still top out around 20-22k, I never jumped on the Plasma Dopping bandwagon because it was a prime candidate to get hit with the Cryptic Nerf Bat.

    I don't even know if I'm still in the DPS league anymore, but either way it's easy enough to get back in. The best way to maintain the integrity of the channels is to start over.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jjdez wrote: »
    So your argument is to lower the standard of all players in the hopes that cryptic will then somehow dumb-down the game? Are the hitpoints on advanced/elite too much for you and others? Not like the AI actually makes intelligent decisions with its extremely limited array of abilities.

    Well considering that your DPS crew weren't the ones who cracked the original NWS when it was still unbeatable (and that was the hardest content this game ever offered in PVE) , I wouldn't toot my horn if I was you .
    (Look up the @handle list on STOwiki)

    As to what I said (before your cheap attempts to twist my words) -- it's really simple :
    According to your agenda, strong players need to play with other strong players because weak ones drag you down in speed & performance .
    According to my POV, weak and strong players complement each other in many ways , the least of which is through social interaction which the closed circuit DPS channels oppose .


    Ican't even remember the last time I got a spam mail in game...because there is a setting in your options that will take care of that.

    If memory serves , such settings also undermine communication with ppl you have not been previously associated with .
    Not exactly the route to take if you also want to recruit to your fleet or to be generally social in game .




    ... should I apologize at this point for not using a parser to locate ppl who are worthy to talk to me ?
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited February 2015
    onerats wrote: »
    This is very true. For me the league is more than just a place to find like minded teammates. It's a player invented achievement system that means a lot more to me than any accolade in STO. Without wiping the records clean, we're no longer comparing apples to apples. Moving up in the rankings and whatnot will prove far more difficult, and won't really tell you where you stand compared to everyone else anyway.

    Well said, onerats. I wholeheartedly agree.
  • alex284alex284 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    +1 to resetting them all, including 10K (although that would be a lot of work for you all probably).

    I'm in 50K and I'd be there without plasma doping but not sure about EAP.

    Actually, Come March 2 there will probably be a big boost to people's DPSes: the end of the year-5 event UI lag. How do I know when my FAW is ready when it says 7 seconds left for 15 seconds straight? How do I get a great DPS in ISA when my screen freezes the moment I fire on the first cube and unfreezes as everyone else is moving to the right cube? (this has happened multiple times, one time it unfroze after the round and I had 9.8 DPS on my parser. w00t) how am I supposed to pilot when I think I'm flying forward but then i rubber-band back a few km?

    Also too, how would the case-by-case basis be handled? Currently I do around 60k in my rom-tac. I cannot do that in my kdf-sci, and I don't pretend that I can and I don't sign up for 50k channel runs when I'm in my kdf-sci. But, still, I may run him on a 10k channel ISA and someone else may upload a parse showing me getting 20K or whatever. If you look at my account's DPS on ISA runs, it would be all over the board, but that doesn't mean that I can't consistently get over 50K when I'm on the right toon. This route would seem to make things needlessly complicated.
  • furiontassadarfuriontassadar Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I love when I read these things. Not "hate", more like "feeling rightfully superior".

    Then why bother hanging out with us plebeians if you're so darn special?

    Anyway, to the actual question at hand....

    I'm only in the 10k league currently, but I agree with a complete wipe of the 30k-50k channels. Not only will that be easiest on the admins, but I feel like people should only be in their respective channels if they can consistently achieve that level of DPS. If a given player can consistently achieve 30k+, especially without plasma doping or a the bugged trait, then they should have no problem getting a parse uploaded getting them back into the right channel.

    We're actually kind of having similar problems down in the 10k league. A few players have apparently managed to get into the 10k league via lucky parses, but can't maintain a consistent 10k each run, which can TRIBBLE over those players who genuinely belong in the channel. Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure what the solution to that problem is. Even if we also wipe the lower channels too, like 10k, the fact that they were lucky enough to get in in the first place could mean that they'd be back in again soon enough, and simply getting rid of the 10k and/or raising the bar to 15k/20k would needlessly punish those people who have actually worked to get up to 10k.
    "There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
  • generalmocogeneralmoco Member Posts: 1,634
    edited February 2015
    How about making a poll on an outside link?
  • rahmkota19rahmkota19 Member Posts: 1,929 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I've been a member of 10k for a while now. Never ever have I queued up for something through that channel, but that is part of my personal motivation that I will only ever fly with fleet mates. Leader example and such. I do have several friends in 30k and 50k, and one for who it is only a matter of time before he breaks 100k himself.


    What I would suggest as a sort of outside observer, is the following:
    - Delete all the scores. All of them. Every single one of them. No exceptions. Ofcourse, maintain these as some kind of archive for those that have requested that, but simply go full Civ-Gandhi on them and nuke it all.
    - Crash the channels. Its a lot easier than having to kick every last person out of it.
    - Recreate the following channels: 10k, 20k, 30k, 50k, 75k, Prime. Reinstating 20k will become something desired a lot with these two fixes: people who hit 30k with these mechanics but who otherwise would do 20k will have a place where they feel they belong. I know for a fact a lot of folks were pretty upset loosing 20k, and reinstating those will really balance the new scores and member satisfaction out. At least, in my opinion.
    - Don't do all of this on Thursday. Rather, from Thursday on, start giving at least 1 warning per hour AND in the channel message of the day that a total reset will occur on the thursday afterwards. So, 1 week, at least 24 warnings per day.... you should reach everybody.



    Thats just my 2 slips of latinum on the matter anyway.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Then why bother hanging out with us plebeians if you're so darn special?

    Anyway, to the actual question at hand....

    I'm only in the 10k league currently, but I agree with a complete wipe of the 30k-50k channels. Not only will that be easiest on the admins, but I feel like people should only be in their respective channels if they can consistently achieve that level of DPS. If a given player can consistently achieve 30k+, especially without plasma doping or a the bugged trait, then they should have no problem getting a parse uploaded getting them back into the right channel.

    We're actually kind of having similar problems down in the 10k league. A few players have apparently managed to get into the 10k league via lucky parses, but can't maintain a consistent 10k each run, which can TRIBBLE over those players who genuinely belong in the channel. Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure what the solution to that problem is. Even if we also wipe the lower channels too, like 10k, the fact that they were lucky enough to get in in the first place could mean that they'd be back in again soon enough, and simply getting rid of the 10k and/or raising the bar to 15k/20k would needlessly punish those people who have actually worked to get up to 10k.


    For 10k and 30k channel, you *already* need to do the minimum required DPS, 80% of the time (50k and up require a consistent minimum score). So, no need to brainstorm on how to deal with 'lucky day' people: there's already a system in place for it. :)
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    How about making a poll on an outside link?

    Because the DPS league is run by smart people who know what happens when you post polls on the internet.

    That, and there has been some good discussion, and some resounding agreement about a partial or full wipe, from what I've seen.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

    Tacs are overrated.

    Game's best wiki

    Build questions? Look here!
  • furiontassadarfuriontassadar Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    For 10k and 30k channel, you *already* need to do the minimum required DPS, 80% of the time (50k and up require a consistent minimum score). So, no need to brainstorm on how to deal with 'lucky day' people: there's already a system in place for it. :)

    A system that doesn't appear to be working properly, from what I've seen.

    Unless there really are that many new people getting lucky parses that often, which speaks to there potentially being some other underlying problem....
    "There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    A system that doesn't appear to be working properly, from what I've seen.

    Unless there really are that many new people getting lucky parses that often, which speaks to there potentially being some other underlying problem....

    I'd say the system is working just fine, but that the 'minimum DPS to stay' rule is simply not applied as rigorously in the lower echelons (where, presumably, it doesn't really matter all that much anyway). 50k and up are probably a lot more strict about it. That's all just my guess, though.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    A bunch of us have done some test runs with Plasma Burn and EAP; results: if you where able to get a DPS score before without these 2 mechanics, you'll be able to get them again.

    Agreed!

    It will be a mess to handle if done on a player - player basis alone, trying to sort thru the piles of recordings so, a completely fresh start would be a good choice IMO.

    However, you may consider a score averaging, by taking their old dps top score and, throwing it into the newly recorded mix so, as to give them the benefit of doubt so to speak.

    The majority of them should understand the decision made by the admins and, strive to climb back up on the ladder.

    I can understand some might be disappointed in a possible step down (This is kind of why I recommended adding in old high score, to net a possible fair average) but, I foresee many staying put or, moving up as all of you find new ways to compensate if needed.

    Unfortunately it is one mess you all will have to contend with and, not one I would relish myself.

    Good luck.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    A system that doesn't appear to be working properly, from what I've seen.

    Unless there really are that many new people getting lucky parses that often, which speaks to there potentially being some other underlying problem....


    Reports those lucky-day-ppl, they get a warning and after repeatation a kick (and their names will be noted).

    As for the underlying problem, the lucky day might be one, but its mostly now that 10k is too easy to reach.
  • borgqbeborgqbe Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Most people that reached high numbers without plasma doping and EAP can do it again.
    +1 reset, +1 archiving old records if possible.
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Plasmonic leech is less of a problem than giving every FAW spamming person a free +20. At least with leech they have to spec into flow caps. I do find it amazing so many people spec into flow caps and don't use polarons or energy siphon (Well, to be fair, ES1 is borked) for an extra boost and to soften their targets.

    +20 power per subsystem is indeed too much. Plasmonic leech at least forces you to slot a console and spec some flow capacitors to make it worth having, Supremacy needs nothing.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Reports those lucky-day-ppl, they get a warning and after repeatation a kick (and their names will be noted).

    As for the underlying problem, the lucky day might be one, but its mostly now that 10k is too easy to reach.

    Given that last bit, should there even be a DPS-10,000 channel? Maybe a DPS-15,000 or even DPS-20,000 as the starting point?

    Something that could show that either folks are able to pull that kind of DPS off under the imperfect conditions of a public queue or have the team mentality to have tried to put together something with other folks for better conditions...?

    edit: Cause I mean, if somebody pulled 10k to get in via a public queue and they're still doing 10k in channel runs, that kind of points to an issue, imho. It makes 10k more about it being a "community outreach program" sort of thing for folks that just want to avoid potential trolls in the public queues. But isn't that what DPS-Public is?
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,108 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Id say reset 50K and all above maybe 30k too
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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