I am simply stating that people want a torpedo that is fine, to be nerfed in dmg, when the game mechanics revolved around boosting dmg capacity is the culprit!!!
Reading comprehension got you?
1 seemingly OP mechanic causing such a fuss, yet every other HUGELY OPing mechanic in game is fine right?
So long as it doesn't hurt your fun right?
My reading comprehension is fine, yet you do seem to like to cherry pick what you reply to. Just look at that lovely quote that you completely ignored the details I wrote on what's actually needed to fix the problems with all the different issues of balance.
You however are making a massive storm in a teacup about this torpedo. You're been passive aggressive in every reply and seem to be on a weird crusade. I particularly enjoyed the part where you wrote about the intentions behind the Torp's design, just the same as academics have over dissected a book and are reading information into passages that doesn't exist.
AH well c'est la vie. It's going to be fixed. It's a bug.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Exactly, now tell that to all the other people, who seemingly want the actual torpedo itself nerfed would you!!!
Which would effectively kill it, in regards to base launching dmg/dps and, not in regards to spreads and high yields!
There seems to be a disconnect here. What everyone is calling for is exactly what's happening - they are fixing the incorrect damage modifier. When people are asking for Neutronic to be nerfed, it's a general term. They're asking for whatever is causing it's high damage to be fixed. That is what is happening.
And, using the numbers that Borticus posted and through his own words, Neutronic is still going to be the most powerful torpedo - even with its higher CD.
Neutronic is the closest we have to the immersive experience of torpedoes being as lethal as they were in canon.
^this [see edit]
edit: And, now that I"ve read the entire thread, don't ask me why, masochistic or something, I have no relevant opinion! LOL I haven't ever used this torp. heh
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." Q Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
There seems to be a disconnect here. What everyone is calling for is exactly what's happening - they are fixing the incorrect damage modifier. When people are asking for Neutronic to be nerfed, it's a general term. They're asking for whatever is causing it's high damage to be fixed. That is what is happening.
And, using the numbers that Borticus posted and through his own words, Neutronic is still going to be the most powerful torpedo - even with its higher CD.
So he says, never trust a Dev fully!
I still foresee people whining and complaining it needs nerfed more, I mean why have torpedoes in game, if they aren't meant to cause massive dmg spikes?
Am I to guess, they aren't going to fix the related issue of TS1 being utter TRIBBLE in regards to this torpedo? No care for a fix regarding THY?
My reading comprehension is fine, yet you do seem to like to cherry pick what you reply to. Just look at that lovely quote that you completely ignored the details I wrote on what's actually needed to fix the problems with all the different issues of balance.
You however are making a massive storm in a teacup about this torpedo. You're been passive aggressive in every reply and seem to be on a weird crusade. I particularly enjoyed the part where you wrote about the intentions behind the Torp's design, just the same as academics have over dissected a book and are reading information into passages that doesn't exist.
AH well c'est la vie. It's going to be fixed. It's a bug.
And, yet you comment by ranting on with nothing of use, other than it's getting nerfed!
I still foresee people whining and complaining it needs nerfed more, I mean why have torpedoes in game, if they aren't meant to cause massive dmg spikes?
Am I to guess, they aren't going to fix the related issue of TS1 being utter TRIBBLE in regards to this torpedo? No care for a fix regarding THY?
Slow HY requires some timing not to hit shields, but hull. All other torpedo spreads require the same but in lesser degree.
Neutronic has modifiers that make a certain high hit every time. and that is OK since it has long cooldown.
What is not OK, however, which has been confirmed by devs, is that Neutspread2 and 3 have incorrect scaling DMG modifiers across the board.
Comparatively
TS1 too weak
TS2 and 3 way too strong
HY absolutely weak
Even after the -36% nerf on TS3 it will remain strongest torpedo in game(exclamation mark needed?)
And yeah, after the nerf it will still kick "people's butts" like you say, but it will be same way all other torpedo did and do.(except for elachi and chroniton which are primarily debuff torpedo types, and of course now very weak transphasics)
To be honest, I find STO's attitude toward torpdoes disappointing anyway. Whilst I am fully aware that canon has little bearing on STO I, personally, think it's ridicuouls that energy weapons can be made as OP as they are yet torpdoes, the REAL heavy hitters in canon/the series, are second-fiddle to them.
I have the same opinion. That is why I always use a torpedo on my ships.
Why majority doesn't is because it's way easier to fly/use full beam setups in PvE to get high numbers. First it was A2B/DEM marion then with omega 2pc, and now it's plasma doping.
Also major fail from ship design PoW is IMO that ships don't have separate slots for Torpedos.
For example canon Defiant has 1 Quad heavy phaser cannon front and 2 torpedo quantum launchers.
Voyager has 2x2 270 arc "front" + 2 torpedo launchers front, 2 aft
etc.
changing that, would make much more balanced and ST like game.
If we ever get Ship sector targeting with critical hits concentrated on hitting critical parts of ships, instead of (outside of PvP) weak subsys targeting and hitting the mesh instead of parts, that would even be glorious.
I still foresee people whining and complaining it needs nerfed more, I mean why have torpedoes in game, if they aren't meant to cause massive dmg spikes?
Am I to guess, they aren't going to fix the related issue of TS1 being utter TRIBBLE in regards to this torpedo? No care for a fix regarding THY?
Torpedoes are intended to cause damage spikes - to hull. And they still do that. It's just that power creep has largely ignored projectiles and greatly benefited energy weapons to the point that energy weapons do it all. There's also the large cooldown/flight time/firing rate/shield kinetic resistance not scaling with shield HP issue inherent to torpedoes, but THAT is the mechanics issue here. Not Neutronic's mistaken modifier.
Bio/Neutronic/Gravimetric HY issues were also brought up to the Devs as well, and I believe they said something along the lines of looking into it, but haven't given any hard numbers as of yet.
But you know what else happened with this Neutronic fix? They acknowledged that Transphasics and Chronitons were underperforming with Torpedo Spread - and they're going to buff their damage accordingly.
Who would have thought? Pushing for proper balance actually causes underperforming gear to get buffed, instead of just having 1 or 2 supremely powerful things? :rolleyes:
To be honest, I find STO's attitude toward torpdoes disappointing anyway. Whilst I am fully aware that canon has little bearing on STO I, personally, think it's ridicuouls that energy weapons can be made as OP as they are yet torpdoes, the REAL heavy hitters in canon/the series, are second-fiddle to them.
The "Torpedoes for hull, energy weapons for shield" mechanic is something STO borrowed from Star Trek: Legacy. It made sense at launch, but over the years, power creep largely ignored projectiles and made energy weapons powerful enough to be the de facto weapon choice - outside of specialized builds that either are pure torps or time their strikes in combination with Beam Overload/Rapid Fire perfectly so that torpedoes hit hull.
That's not to say that you can't make torpedoes successful - my Vesta uses 3 torpedoes up front (non-Neutronic) with an unoptimized build (essentially "wasting" an entire Lt Tac BOff due to CD overlap and putting mines in my aft weapons) and I can still average around 20K in ISA runs.
That's probably the worst thing about this whole situation.
OP energy weapons? Embraced by almost everyone and entire builds created around them (BFAW Aux2Batt etc)
OP Torpdeos? NERF!! Nerf it NOW!!!
Sad.
I'd agree and also disagree.
It's sad that energy weapons have gotten to the point where they are right now, yes. And, ideally, we'd see an overall balance pass where things like Dual Cannons (when was the last time you saw someone using those?) and underused abilities like Aceton Beam would be made viable.
But this is a pressing issue, and one that (should be) and easy, quick fix.
To be honest, I find STO's attitude toward torpdoes disappointing anyway. Whilst I am fully aware that canon has little bearing on STO I, personally, think it's ridicuouls that energy weapons can be made as OP as they are yet torpdoes, the REAL heavy hitters in canon/the series, are second-fiddle to them.
I still can't quite believe that in my Science Vessel build with all kinds of kinetic enhancements and exotic damage powers like Gravity Well, I "cook" hostile ships within their shields.
Sure, I kill ships much slower than in my Escort (that even is still using "traditional" DHCs and is not on the BFAW nor even the SS trip)... But still, that seems just as "off" as the energy weapon extremes.
I think a "base" problem of the torpedo vs energy is that while torpedoes might deal less damage against shields, energy weapons deal the same damage against hull and shields. If they also dealt only 25 % to hull while torpedoes deal 25 % to shields, we'd probably see a notable change.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Again, it is not the torpedo itself that is broken but, merely the game mechanics that cause it to reach godly like potential.
While we are on the subject of nerfing things, why not nerf AP weapons hmm?
They can be deemed OP, seeing how they can achieve far more crtd than any other energy type and, are backed by better dps capacity due to shear crth chances, not to mention the fact you can equip more than 1 Omni of that particular energy type mainly, backed even further that they are increased by 1 energy type of tac console needed to achieve said goal?
Heck nerf SS, nerf crtd, nerf crth, nerf go down fighting, etc...
I would sing a song of praises and thanks to Cyrptic on National television if AP weapons were nerfed. God I hate those things, make your ears bleed when people hit BFAW with them and they pretty much are the monopoly weapon of the game.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
But you know what else happened with this Neutronic fix? They acknowledged that Transphasics and Chronitons were underperforming with Torpedo Spread - and they're going to buff their damage accordingly.
Who would have thought? Pushing for proper balance actually causes underperforming gear to get buffed, instead of just having 1 or 2 supremely powerful things? :rolleyes:
Really and truly? If so, joy! My B'rel will be ecstatic.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Not really, they are only about 2% more effective than others. It's still 2% but not enough to force players to just use AP. I'll still use Disruptor and Polaron, they are both effective as are Phased Biomatter.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I think a "base" problem of the torpedo vs energy is that while torpedoes might deal less damage against shields, energy weapons deal the same damage against hull and shields. If they also dealt only 25 % to hull while torpedoes deal 25 % to shields, we'd probably see a notable change.
This is exactly what they should have done from day one.
Energy weapons should do less dmg to Hull... its only logical that the big exploding torpedo would rip larger holes in armour... where the high energy Lazor weapons would rip through energy shields.
I truly have no idea why this wasn't the standard mechanic at launch.
Games like Eve get that part right... all weapons effect hull/armor/shields the same however ships all have the exact opposite resists by default. (Shields being strong to one dmg type that armour gets no natural resist to... and the reverse on armour) Meaning a weapon designed to chew shields will have a harder time with armour and the reverse. It makes for a much more tactical game... Cryptic was sleeping day one.
Despite the uproar it would cause now... it is something they should still consider changing.
This is exactly what they should have done from day one.
Energy weapons should do less dmg to Hull... its only logical that the big exploding torpedo would rip larger holes in armour... where the high energy Lazor weapons would rip through energy shields.
I truly have no idea why this wasn't the standard mechanic at launch.
This.
Why it's okay to min/max for Beam FAW & totally ignore using Torpedoes on a Cruiser (except for people who want "realism")... it boggles the mind.
Sci torpedo boats - definitely the red-headed step children.
Why it's okay to min/max for Beam FAW & totally ignore using Torpedoes on a Cruiser (except for people who want "realism")... it boggles the mind.
Sci torpedo boats - definitely the red-headed step children.
If sci torpedo boats are the red headed step children what are tactical torp boats that don't have GW to dump all that aux into (aside from a lot of fun with maxed out engines)?
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If sci torpedo boats are the red headed step children what are tactical torp boats that don't have GW to dump all that aux into (aside from a lot of fun with maxed out engines)?
I'm just pointing out that Sci abilities are at least as badwrong as Torpedoes, if not moreso. At least the game is built for DPS, unlike Sci CC.
My T'varo can run GW, just like my B'rel can run APO/APB without a need for Aux. You're not prevented from running Aux for a GW on your B'rel any more than I'm prevented from going for more DPS skills on my B'rel.
Or, maybe put energy into Shields? My Mat'Ha can go BFAW + Torpedoes... or I can do a Decloaker thing with my Norgh or any number of Romulan boats to get the higher Rom Ambush bonus that I don't get with the B'rel.
High Aux is a feature of a Torpedo boat, not a requirement, IMO.
First clip: 1st target has no debuffs at all
2nd target has only Omega shearing debuff
Second clip: Full Hull, Full shields scimitar. no debuffs. i hit him with TS3 , bam! 120k+ effective damage. Ih he had been debuffed or didn't insta exploded it would go over 200k easily from radiation.
Third clip: no debuffs on all 3 enemies at time of firing.
all 3 die from cca effective 400k Alpha.
BTW thanks to that guy in comments on Youtube for disliking and calling me a PvPtard.
Real class act.
Hmm...
Pardon my ignorance here but it sounds like you're saying the only thing needed to make this work is TS3 and the neutronic torp?
So if I load that torp on my fleet assault cruiser with TS3 and aim at a borg cube in ISA I'm going to put out 120k on it?
Sounds fishy to me... I'm guessing it requires the correct sequence of buffs (why cloak before firing if the torp is the problem??) and maybe the solution is to adjust how things stack on top of each other rather than focus exclusively on the torp...
Not really, they are only about 2% more effective than others. It's still 2% but not enough to force players to just use AP. I'll still use Disruptor and Polaron, they are both effective as are Phased Biomatter.
2%?
I think more like 25%!!!
What other energy weapon do you know of, that has as high of CRTD as AP can achieve?
What other energy weapon do you know of, that works squarely off of CRTH to achieve the extra CRTD?
What I see in this thread are people wanting the nerfing of the ONE effective torpedo in this game and back to the status quo of torpedoes being pretty pointless.
In a Star Trek game...
People have issues with a torpedo being deadly effective.
But people have no issues with energy weapons destroying everything, with beams in a 360 arc around the ship, and losing ZERO effectiveness on any target regardless if shields are up.
But apparently that's fine?
Long ago, I used to drive Torp Boats very consistently. Then I gave up. I gave up because it was way, WAY too much trouble to even make them half-way decent in general combat. Then there's the very sad notion of equipping torpedoes on a damn STAR TREK vessel will worsen your combat performance instead of just "Go All Energy" or better yet, "Go Beamboat."
Let us not have torpedoes being competitively good weapons, unless you're into half-assed gimmick play.
What I see in this thread are people wanting the nerfing of the ONE effective torpedo in this game and back to the status quo of torpedoes being pretty pointless.
In a Star Trek game...
People have issues with a torpedo being deadly effective.
But people have no issues with energy weapons destroying everything, with beams in a 360 arc around the ship, and losing ZERO effectiveness on any target regardless if shields are up.
But apparently that's fine?
Hrmm, would have to disagree about the torps being pointless...imho.
Torps would be fine if Shields worked more like they did in Star Trek...imho.
Pointing out issues with one thing does not mean there are not issues with other things...do you go to a cupcake forum to complain about issues with networking...do you go to a network forum to complain about issues with cupcakes?
If one were to ask me what I see a bunch of in this thread and other such threads (countless threads where any sort of balance is mentioned)...well, I couldn't answer - the mods wouldn't like it.
Hrmm, would have to disagree about the torps being pointless...imho.
Torps would be fine if Shields worked more like they did in Star Trek...imho.
Pointing out issues with one thing does not mean there are not issues with other things...do you go to a cupcake forum to complain about issues with networking...do you go to a network forum to complain about issues with cupcakes?
If one were to ask me what I see a bunch of in this thread and other such threads (countless threads where any sort of balance is mentioned)...well, I couldn't answer - the mods wouldn't like it.
What I'm commenting on is that torps in this game are, in general, really bad shape... Except for the Neutronic Torps. Is it over the top? Okay, sure. But it's the only one that consistently performs out of all the torpedoes in the game.
Compared to Energy Weapons that have 100% effectiveness, area coverage, and work extremely well on practically everything, while torps in STO are hindered with some significant drawbacks.
Torpedoes were the preferred method of doing the most catastrophic damage in Star Trek TV shows and movies. Not so in STO. Just shoot all around with your beams and you'll do better.
Let me throw this out there: Outside of Neutronic Torps, how many many of the high performance DPS'ers rely on Torpedoes?
What I see in this thread are people wanting the nerfing of the ONE effective torpedo in this game and back to the status quo of torpedoes being pretty pointless.
In a Star Trek game...
People have issues with a torpedo being deadly effective.
But people have no issues with energy weapons destroying everything, with beams in a 360 arc around the ship, and losing ZERO effectiveness on any target regardless if shields are up.
But apparently that's fine?
Long ago, I used to drive Torp Boats very consistently. Then I gave up. I gave up because it was way, WAY too much trouble to even make them half-way decent in general combat. Then there's the very sad notion of equipping torpedoes on a damn STAR TREK vessel will worsen your combat performance instead of just "Go All Energy" or better yet, "Go Beamboat."
Let us not have torpedoes being competitively good weapons, unless you're into half-assed gimmick play.
Torpedos aren't bad... and the neutronic is out to lunch frankly.
I love torps and my torp boats did just fine before the Neutronic silly torp.
The issue is min maxing... Torps are only ok if you build for them... and with the advantages Energy weapons have in every way there is very little reason other the boredom to bother.
Energy + Torp ships are almost always terrible... Full torp is good Full energy is good.
Cryptic needs to make Energy Suck vs hull... that is the nerf that really needs to happen.
As well as the neuto torp.
On my torp boat (varo or T6bird) I can run effective builds with any of the rep torps or the crafted torp (which is also somewhat silly)... and even going all Quantum/Photon for PvE or Phasic For PvE.
However if I load a Neutronic on that same build I can in PvP litterly just fly around and one shot entire groups. For PvE the only reason it doesn't seem as insane is because Cryptic has buffed NPCs by giving them stupid amounts of HP... which easily hides the fact that the torp is majorly Fd up balance wise.
I had a bit of shuttle PvP today with friends and one of them liaded a Neutronic torp when he had enough of me kicking his TRIBBLE. It was the only way he could destroy me, as the torp could nearly one shot me if I didn't have BFI running...through nearly full shields.
Another friend brought a T3 escort to the match. He's a beginner who doesn't understand the gane mecganics well yet, but still... A shuttle should not be aple to kill a starship with two torpedo hits. That's just wrong!
Is Neutronic's radiation considered exotic? I have a good amount of particle gen and the Plasma emission torps tend to hit on the low side.
It shouldn't be considered Exotic because the source comes from a weapon. Cryptic's own rules for what constituted as Exotic was specific... If it comes from a weapon source it isn't Exotic.
But then again, I haven't crunched the numbers myself. And we're talking about Cryptic here.
Comments
My reading comprehension is fine, yet you do seem to like to cherry pick what you reply to. Just look at that lovely quote that you completely ignored the details I wrote on what's actually needed to fix the problems with all the different issues of balance.
You however are making a massive storm in a teacup about this torpedo. You're been passive aggressive in every reply and seem to be on a weird crusade. I particularly enjoyed the part where you wrote about the intentions behind the Torp's design, just the same as academics have over dissected a book and are reading information into passages that doesn't exist.
AH well c'est la vie. It's going to be fixed. It's a bug.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
There seems to be a disconnect here. What everyone is calling for is exactly what's happening - they are fixing the incorrect damage modifier. When people are asking for Neutronic to be nerfed, it's a general term. They're asking for whatever is causing it's high damage to be fixed. That is what is happening.
And, using the numbers that Borticus posted and through his own words, Neutronic is still going to be the most powerful torpedo - even with its higher CD.
^this [see edit]
edit: And, now that I"ve read the entire thread, don't ask me why, masochistic or something, I have no relevant opinion! LOL I haven't ever used this torp. heh
Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
Pve should be removed. Forever.
>Gio legacy
Know the difference
It could save your life...
So he says, never trust a Dev fully!
I still foresee people whining and complaining it needs nerfed more, I mean why have torpedoes in game, if they aren't meant to cause massive dmg spikes?
Am I to guess, they aren't going to fix the related issue of TS1 being utter TRIBBLE in regards to this torpedo? No care for a fix regarding THY?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Thanks for noticing. It's over the top just like the theme of the video. It simply couldn't have been any other way
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And, yet you comment by ranting on with nothing of use, other than it's getting nerfed!
touch
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Than you could kiss the game goodbye literally, as the small pvp community cannot sustain the game alone financially!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Slow HY requires some timing not to hit shields, but hull. All other torpedo spreads require the same but in lesser degree.
Neutronic has modifiers that make a certain high hit every time. and that is OK since it has long cooldown.
What is not OK, however, which has been confirmed by devs, is that Neutspread2 and 3 have incorrect scaling DMG modifiers across the board.
Comparatively
TS1 too weak
TS2 and 3 way too strong
HY absolutely weak
Even after the -36% nerf on TS3 it will remain strongest torpedo in game(exclamation mark needed?)
And yeah, after the nerf it will still kick "people's butts" like you say, but it will be same way all other torpedo did and do.(except for elachi and chroniton which are primarily debuff torpedo types, and of course now very weak transphasics)
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I have the same opinion. That is why I always use a torpedo on my ships.
Why majority doesn't is because it's way easier to fly/use full beam setups in PvE to get high numbers. First it was A2B/DEM marion then with omega 2pc, and now it's plasma doping.
Also major fail from ship design PoW is IMO that ships don't have separate slots for Torpedos.
For example canon Defiant has 1 Quad heavy phaser cannon front and 2 torpedo quantum launchers.
Voyager has 2x2 270 arc "front" + 2 torpedo launchers front, 2 aft
etc.
changing that, would make much more balanced and ST like game.
If we ever get Ship sector targeting with critical hits concentrated on hitting critical parts of ships, instead of (outside of PvP) weak subsys targeting and hitting the mesh instead of parts, that would even be glorious.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
Torpedoes are intended to cause damage spikes - to hull. And they still do that. It's just that power creep has largely ignored projectiles and greatly benefited energy weapons to the point that energy weapons do it all. There's also the large cooldown/flight time/firing rate/shield kinetic resistance not scaling with shield HP issue inherent to torpedoes, but THAT is the mechanics issue here. Not Neutronic's mistaken modifier.
Bio/Neutronic/Gravimetric HY issues were also brought up to the Devs as well, and I believe they said something along the lines of looking into it, but haven't given any hard numbers as of yet.
But you know what else happened with this Neutronic fix? They acknowledged that Transphasics and Chronitons were underperforming with Torpedo Spread - and they're going to buff their damage accordingly.
Who would have thought? Pushing for proper balance actually causes underperforming gear to get buffed, instead of just having 1 or 2 supremely powerful things? :rolleyes:
The "Torpedoes for hull, energy weapons for shield" mechanic is something STO borrowed from Star Trek: Legacy. It made sense at launch, but over the years, power creep largely ignored projectiles and made energy weapons powerful enough to be the de facto weapon choice - outside of specialized builds that either are pure torps or time their strikes in combination with Beam Overload/Rapid Fire perfectly so that torpedoes hit hull.
That's not to say that you can't make torpedoes successful - my Vesta uses 3 torpedoes up front (non-Neutronic) with an unoptimized build (essentially "wasting" an entire Lt Tac BOff due to CD overlap and putting mines in my aft weapons) and I can still average around 20K in ISA runs.
I'd agree and also disagree.
It's sad that energy weapons have gotten to the point where they are right now, yes. And, ideally, we'd see an overall balance pass where things like Dual Cannons (when was the last time you saw someone using those?) and underused abilities like Aceton Beam would be made viable.
But this is a pressing issue, and one that (should be) and easy, quick fix.
Sure, I kill ships much slower than in my Escort (that even is still using "traditional" DHCs and is not on the BFAW nor even the SS trip)... But still, that seems just as "off" as the energy weapon extremes.
I think a "base" problem of the torpedo vs energy is that while torpedoes might deal less damage against shields, energy weapons deal the same damage against hull and shields. If they also dealt only 25 % to hull while torpedoes deal 25 % to shields, we'd probably see a notable change.
I would sing a song of praises and thanks to Cyrptic on National television if AP weapons were nerfed. God I hate those things, make your ears bleed when people hit BFAW with them and they pretty much are the monopoly weapon of the game.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Really and truly? If so, joy! My B'rel will be ecstatic.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
This is exactly what they should have done from day one.
Energy weapons should do less dmg to Hull... its only logical that the big exploding torpedo would rip larger holes in armour... where the high energy Lazor weapons would rip through energy shields.
I truly have no idea why this wasn't the standard mechanic at launch.
Games like Eve get that part right... all weapons effect hull/armor/shields the same however ships all have the exact opposite resists by default. (Shields being strong to one dmg type that armour gets no natural resist to... and the reverse on armour) Meaning a weapon designed to chew shields will have a harder time with armour and the reverse. It makes for a much more tactical game... Cryptic was sleeping day one.
Despite the uproar it would cause now... it is something they should still consider changing.
This.
Why it's okay to min/max for Beam FAW & totally ignore using Torpedoes on a Cruiser (except for people who want "realism")... it boggles the mind.
Sci torpedo boats - definitely the red-headed step children.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
If sci torpedo boats are the red headed step children what are tactical torp boats that don't have GW to dump all that aux into (aside from a lot of fun with maxed out engines)?
I'm just pointing out that Sci abilities are at least as badwrong as Torpedoes, if not moreso. At least the game is built for DPS, unlike Sci CC.
My T'varo can run GW, just like my B'rel can run APO/APB without a need for Aux. You're not prevented from running Aux for a GW on your B'rel any more than I'm prevented from going for more DPS skills on my B'rel.
Or, maybe put energy into Shields? My Mat'Ha can go BFAW + Torpedoes... or I can do a Decloaker thing with my Norgh or any number of Romulan boats to get the higher Rom Ambush bonus that I don't get with the B'rel.
High Aux is a feature of a Torpedo boat, not a requirement, IMO.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Hmm...
Pardon my ignorance here but it sounds like you're saying the only thing needed to make this work is TS3 and the neutronic torp?
So if I load that torp on my fleet assault cruiser with TS3 and aim at a borg cube in ISA I'm going to put out 120k on it?
Sounds fishy to me... I'm guessing it requires the correct sequence of buffs (why cloak before firing if the torp is the problem??) and maybe the solution is to adjust how things stack on top of each other rather than focus exclusively on the torp...
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
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2%?
I think more like 25%!!!
What other energy weapon do you know of, that has as high of CRTD as AP can achieve?
What other energy weapon do you know of, that works squarely off of CRTH to achieve the extra CRTD?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
In a Star Trek game...
People have issues with a torpedo being deadly effective.
But people have no issues with energy weapons destroying everything, with beams in a 360 arc around the ship, and losing ZERO effectiveness on any target regardless if shields are up.
But apparently that's fine?
Long ago, I used to drive Torp Boats very consistently. Then I gave up. I gave up because it was way, WAY too much trouble to even make them half-way decent in general combat. Then there's the very sad notion of equipping torpedoes on a damn STAR TREK vessel will worsen your combat performance instead of just "Go All Energy" or better yet, "Go Beamboat."
Let us not have torpedoes being competitively good weapons, unless you're into half-assed gimmick play.
Hrmm, would have to disagree about the torps being pointless...imho.
Torps would be fine if Shields worked more like they did in Star Trek...imho.
Pointing out issues with one thing does not mean there are not issues with other things...do you go to a cupcake forum to complain about issues with networking...do you go to a network forum to complain about issues with cupcakes?
If one were to ask me what I see a bunch of in this thread and other such threads (countless threads where any sort of balance is mentioned)...well, I couldn't answer - the mods wouldn't like it.
What I'm commenting on is that torps in this game are, in general, really bad shape... Except for the Neutronic Torps. Is it over the top? Okay, sure. But it's the only one that consistently performs out of all the torpedoes in the game.
Compared to Energy Weapons that have 100% effectiveness, area coverage, and work extremely well on practically everything, while torps in STO are hindered with some significant drawbacks.
Torpedoes were the preferred method of doing the most catastrophic damage in Star Trek TV shows and movies. Not so in STO. Just shoot all around with your beams and you'll do better.
Let me throw this out there: Outside of Neutronic Torps, how many many of the high performance DPS'ers rely on Torpedoes?
Torpedos aren't bad... and the neutronic is out to lunch frankly.
I love torps and my torp boats did just fine before the Neutronic silly torp.
The issue is min maxing... Torps are only ok if you build for them... and with the advantages Energy weapons have in every way there is very little reason other the boredom to bother.
Energy + Torp ships are almost always terrible... Full torp is good Full energy is good.
Cryptic needs to make Energy Suck vs hull... that is the nerf that really needs to happen.
As well as the neuto torp.
On my torp boat (varo or T6bird) I can run effective builds with any of the rep torps or the crafted torp (which is also somewhat silly)... and even going all Quantum/Photon for PvE or Phasic For PvE.
However if I load a Neutronic on that same build I can in PvP litterly just fly around and one shot entire groups. For PvE the only reason it doesn't seem as insane is because Cryptic has buffed NPCs by giving them stupid amounts of HP... which easily hides the fact that the torp is majorly Fd up balance wise.
Another friend brought a T3 escort to the match. He's a beginner who doesn't understand the gane mecganics well yet, but still... A shuttle should not be aple to kill a starship with two torpedo hits. That's just wrong!
It shouldn't be considered Exotic because the source comes from a weapon. Cryptic's own rules for what constituted as Exotic was specific... If it comes from a weapon source it isn't Exotic.
But then again, I haven't crunched the numbers myself. And we're talking about Cryptic here.