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This is why Neutronic Spread gets the nerf
sharxtreme
Member Posts: 850 Arc User
And in addition what happens when you bring neutronic to FAW DPS fight
Target Hull has Failed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBucK88ZqI8
Short footage from event organized on DPS channel.
Neutronic Spread is getting the nerf, but what also needs adressing is Plasma "doping" and various other balance issues that exclude most non-FAW Tac and pure SCI/ENG setups from PvE completely.
Before people jump the shark, yeah you can be a SCI or ENG captain and still get high DPS or help others to get one in Recluse for example, but pure SCI/ENG role is comparatively useless in PvE.
I have slightly over 50k with DHC/torp combo on Scimitar, but that is not the norm.
Target Hull has Failed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBucK88ZqI8
Short footage from event organized on DPS channel.
Neutronic Spread is getting the nerf, but what also needs adressing is Plasma "doping" and various other balance issues that exclude most non-FAW Tac and pure SCI/ENG setups from PvE completely.
Before people jump the shark, yeah you can be a SCI or ENG captain and still get high DPS or help others to get one in Recluse for example, but pure SCI/ENG role is comparatively useless in PvE.
I have slightly over 50k with DHC/torp combo on Scimitar, but that is not the norm.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Post edited by sharxtreme on
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Kinda sums up why I stopped using it. After my Scimitar erased an entire team with it, it was quite obvious it needed a nerf.
First clip: 1st target has no debuffs at all
2nd target has only Omega shearing debuff
Second clip: Full Hull, Full shields scimitar. no debuffs. i hit him with TS3 , bam! 120k+ effective damage. Ih he had been debuffed or didn't insta exploded it would go over 200k easily from radiation.
Third clip: no debuffs on all 3 enemies at time of firing.
all 3 die from cca effective 400k Alpha.
BTW thanks to that guy in comments on Youtube for disliking and calling me a PvPtard.
Real class act.
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Its really hard to tell that from the youtube video. I mean if its a debuff or buff. The quality is to low.
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Instead of nerf whining the tribble out PVE they can instead do to PVP.
Are some PvE heroes so hopeless they need an obviously broken weapon to kill those pesky NPCs that keep changing their setups and gameplan? Oh wait...
While I agree they need different mechanics, this was noted as a bug by Borticus.
Even after the fix, the Neutronic will still be the best torpedo in the game.
But - balance is still needed in PVE, and that means sometimes stuff gets nerfed, and abilities that don't work as intended will be brought in line.
Because if that doesn't happen, at some point, Cryptic will tune content around all the broken stuff, and then the broken stuff isn't a neat buff anymore - it's mandatory. Even if it requires grinding for half a year and doing stuff you hate.
You already saw some of the consequences in Delta Rising with Advanced difficulty buffs and the new Elite mode.
Why do you think Neutronic's high damage has gone ignored for so long? Because it really helps with high NPC hitpoints.
Why do NPCs have such high hitpoints? Because it was too easy to tear through queues in 5 minutes.
One things leads to another. Fix high damage and then you can fix high NPC HP - and then make more build choices viable, instead of everyone and their mother rocking out AP CrtD-based FAW boats.
EPtE on Spheres caused a hellstorm of tears.
God forbid people might need to actually adjust their tactics. It's not that hard to slot TBR (without even needing the DOff)/GW/EWP.
The good players adapted, the decent ones knew how to handle it, but the general population was just caught dumbfounded. Better education on different abilities and techniques would go a long way in this game.
PvE is a total joke to kit and build for it. You don't need broken TS3 neutronic to do well.
Neutronic is 100% overpowered in PvE. The fact that anyone running a neutronic would simply stop using torps at all if Neutronic disapeared says it all.
I love torps... I mostly only bother running torp boats anymore cause this game is boring and at least I find that funny. Having said that of course I can admit broken is broken. lol In a way I don't want them to change it... it makes the Crystaline last no more then 3 min which is nice.
I run a non-Neutronic torp boat in PvE, on a T5U Vesta. Gravimetric, Bio-Molecular, and Particle Emission Plasma. It averages anywhere between 17-20K, without using Particle Manipulator for even higher damage. Even still, I "waste" my aft weapon slots by loading them with Mines, because I can't be bothered to use anything else in there.
You don't need Neutronic for PvE, even in it's current state.
So can someone link me the info where this was changed as from what he said it was working as intended. . ???
Our fleetie put out the numbers that showed exactly how the torp was broken.
yeah. Epte on spheres was a nice try from cryptic but tears flooded the forum and game.
Let's talk facts.
Fact #1 in ISA and Borg STFs enemies have no buffs, clears, counters, nothing.
only Phaser disable and few other immunities. a brain dead zombie can finish it by pressing fire given good gear
Fact#2
Plasma Doping was not intended. It is an exploit.
When nerf comes(if it comes), without it, 80% of DPS community would see dramatic DPS loss. Or should i say tragicomic?
Fact# 3
Neutronic TS and HY numbers are way of the mark compared to every torpedo in game.
TS is way to strong, HY is way too weak
Fact#4
It is not PvPers whining that they should nerf PvE damage, but PvP damage.
Fact#5
When Donatra in KASE was cloaking randomly, and average good player DPS was 3k or so, back in s6, people adapted and solved the ELITE mission.
When HSE came out. It was impossible to win it without good teamwork.
People adapted and solved the mission with help of SCIs and ENGs.
Now adaptation and "skill" means having plasma doping equipment:
-+Beam Spire vulnerability Locators
+Plasma DoT Embassy FLWC consoles
-Plasmonic Leach
-Supremacy
-AP CRTDx3 Pen BFAW
and newest adition: all hands on deck trait
And with all that ppl still cant reach 30k, 50k etc... while that alone does 30-40k on average.. well...
I myself don't use beams or plasma doping and my 4 DHC/1 torp front Scimitar brings me currently max slightly over 50k DPS without recluses.
Nerfing neutronic TS2 and 3 will hit players that don't use beams way harder then AP plasma dopers in PvE.
But it doesn't matter. HSE was possible to complete with Defiant or Vesta, NWS with all Vestas, or with only 2-3 ships.
These days players are incapable to solve simplest missions without gear that should solve 10x harder missions.
See why such people run like hell from BDE and Battle of Korfez which are actually great team based and fun co-op missions.
Fact#6
TT/epte on Borg would be so much tears and popcorn that i would like to see it
Fact#7
Every PvE mission now can be solved without any SCI or ENG
Yet Cryptic releases so many non-tac ships and players buy it only for traits.
They should just release t6 cmnd/intel fleet scimitar and be done with it.
Feeding the DPS beast never ends.
Besides Korfez and BDE only ground missions still offer cleaner mechanics and resilient enemies on average.
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nobody hit me with neutronic. it is the complete opposite lol.
and sorry but L2P. BDE is easily solvable without any DMG at all.
You need 2 tanks that can draw agro and survive on left/right side with 2 team mates that will save the borg.
5th guy just can AFK it.
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In the same thread, a few hours earlier, Bort found the neutronic overperforming with spread 2 and 3: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22158941&postcount=36
Oh okkkk.
Well until I see it from a Dev or something I'll just take it this is working as intended as calling a Dev a Noob isn't going to pull you any favours in getting this looked at.
Ah ok fair enough
Now all read from a PVPer is change this chnage that so it doesn't happen to me in match.
PVE people I want total mega destruction at my hands at all times.
With so many very smart people reading this thread is there really a good answer beside separation.
If it was so easy to balance then why have they not done so in last 3 years.
So yah lets keeping asking for the impossible and not ask for something that could be done.
BALANCE = NOT DOABLE
SEPERATION = VERY DOABLE
What me and others have been saying on PVP subforum for who knows how long.
I'm not trying to nerf PVErs that use neutronics, nor i am whining that i can do over 200k per target in PvP, and per hit in PvE.
For all i care do 1mil per hit in PvE, i was just laying out Why neutronic on torp spread3 is getting the nerf.
BTW, here is a 1 big bug. Reputation items going up in rarity go down in damage.
Checked on Biomolecular torpedo and Neutronic torpedo same result.
So we have absurd situation where my VR Mk XIV Biomolecular torp is stronger then UR or Epic, same is with Neutronic.
While MKXIV non DMG Quantum in gold has way higher base then both in every combination of mods/rarities.
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Unfortunately given how well Cryptic handles ONE iteration of powers; and the Cryptic QA dept. is either too small, has bad management/procedures, or is just plan poor at what they do - I shudder to think how badly two sets of power codes would negatively effect BOTH PvP and PvE.
Cryptic has YET to implement PvP well in ANY MMO they've developed and run, going all the way back to CoH. STO PvP has NEVER really been in a good/balanced state from day one.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Neutronic is the closest we have to the immersive experience of torpedoes being as lethal as they were in canon.
Gravimetric needs guaranteed mini-wells with a half the pull of GW1, shield-ignoring well damage, and AoE size determined by PartGens or Graviton Gen. HY needs a guaranteed larger rift doing more well damage and a stronger pull. Brings it closer to the Particle Emission as a rival torp.
Tricobalts, Elachi Torp, and Temporal Disruption Device all need boosted projectile speeds across Normal, TS, and HY, and more HP (tie projectile speeds and HP to Weapons Training and Projectile Weapon Specialization). As well as the effects of the latter two being further boosted by Subspace Decompiler (due to the latter two being Lobi weapons but not worth their value at all).
Romulan Plasma torpedoes need more HP per projectile in normal, TS, and HY variants. Slight speed boost as well for TS and Normal (again, HP and speed tied to Weapons Training and Projectile Weapon Specialization).
Omega Plasma torp should have a 3-set bonus granting a 5% chance of an instant clip reload after the 5th shot from a full clip, and a 10% chance of an instant full clip reload after every 5 single shots (any time the clip isn't fully reloaded). HY needs more HP and speed (again, HP and speed tied to Weapons Training and Projectile Weapon Specialization).
Biomolecular needs stronger delayed damage as well as allowing its slow duration to be affected by Graviton Generators.
The Ferengi Missile Launcher needs a damage boost and an innate Accuracy boost vs small targets (Crystalline Fragments, Hangar Pets, Separation Pets, targettable torpedoes, Turrets, Platforms, and Boarding Parties), with a Bonus damage boost specific to small targets. HY should grant each missile tiny explosive warheads. Still will be plinking damage while shields are up, but more useful once shields go down or are up against plenty of targettable torps and pets.
Tholian Thermionic needs faster projectile speed and HP across Normal, TS, and HY, with a guaranteed drain at HY and further boosted by FlowCaps. Maybe give HY a 3km AoE with reduced guaranteed drain from epicenter.
Hargh'Peng could use an HY variant that retains the untargettable aspect, but has a slower speed in return for doing a larger AoE Radiation blast. In addition, the DoT plus delayed explosion is guaranteed on the target, with a steadily decreasing % chance of nearby targets also getting the DoT + Delayed Explosion.
Bio-Neural Warheads needs more HP and speed across Normal (still again, tied to Weapon Training and Projectile Specialization) and needs a TS option to launch more than one at a time (2 at TS1, 3 at TS2, and 4 at TS3). TS versions won't have a speed boost, but retain the HP boost. HY would just give it a bigger explosion and a weaker Tricobalt disable, but retain the speed boost, losing only the HP boost (less-armored in favor of more explosives; from a flavor-text standpoint).
Transphasics need more Shield Pen while under HY, and more projectile speed across Normal and TS.
Regular and non-unique (not a Rep Project, Single-equip, or Lobi; Dilithium Rep versions don't count) Photons need more projectile speed across Normal, TS, and HY.
Regular and non-unique Quantums need more projectile speed across Normal and TS, but lower than Photon. Same current speed in HY.
Regular and non-unique Chronitons and Plasma needs more projectile speeds across Normal and TS, but equivalent to Quantums in speed (Photons would still be faster). Plasma needs more HP under HY, and Chronitons could use a 50% proc under HY3, 45% under HY2, and 40% under HY1.
The biggest problem in regards to torpedoes is in my opinion the high unreliability of heavy torpedoes. Particularly with Tri-Cobalts there are serious problems in my experience - it's incredible how often they don't seem to get launched or get immediately destroyed on launch (I have no idea what is happening exactly? Are they intercepted by something? Is it just lag?)
I know this a game but the movies and trek TV Torps was the hooch.
Torps suck so much that you get more DPS with none.
Well i could then just go and make a huge BUG report lol.
From PvE broken mission objectives(like anomaly in VCE) to PvP broken scoreboard and everything else
What will cryptic do in meantime?
I agree completely, yet i still use torpedos, can't immerse in a ship without a torp.
See, what i have show in the video is that neutronic completely eats the shields thats why i called the video Target Hull has Failed.
BTW i must say very important thing. I don't use Torpedo tac consoles in the video.
It is very hard to balance out torpedos vs Doped BFAW in PvE and vs SS, OSS+CRF/BO in PvP.
Those abilties hit/pen and/or surpass shields so hard that balance is hard.
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