Just wish they'd balance this stuff just period. Your torp spread, if you throw every buff in the world on it, it instakills people, but you can only do that every 3 minutes. On the other hand in normal use, set for autofire and with just spread and a single attack pattern behind it so that you can keep that going for a couple minutes straight, its pretty meh. There doesn't seem to be much middle-ground in this game; nearly everything seems to be either pointless or ridiculous, or sometimes both. Idiot devs and minmax players: why we can't have anything nice.
To those who are moaning about PvP should just stop talking and look at facts. PvP is a part of the game that is played by a small fraction of the community, and as such it needs to be taken into accounts. Neutronic is bugged, which has been proven so every kind of argument about us whining is automatically invalid.
PvE-only players do not have any reason at all to even start discussing the nerf. What does it matter to them? All they do is shooting a bunch of hitpoints who don't even adapt to your build. I may even prove mercy for how helpless those "pesky "NPCs" are.
In PvP, Neutronic used to do entire team wipeouts and inflated scoreboards, due to the fact it hit all sort of things. The upcoming fix will put an end to the oneshot builds; all that remains to fix is surgical strikes to make it playable again.
Just, give me a reason of why PvE players should cry for the upcoming nerf. Why?
Just wish they'd balance this stuff just period. Your torp spread, if you throw every buff in the world on it, it instakills people, but you can only do that every 3 minutes.
what?
Wait, what?
You surely mean every 15 seconds, not every three minutes?
I don't even have anything on my scimi with 3 min CD.
I also must say again that i didn't even use torpedo tac or otherwise consoles in that video.
5 tac torp cons would be nice to make point even clearer.
You surely mean every 15 seconds, not every three minutes?
I don't even have anything on my scimi with 3 min CD.
I also must say again that i didn't even use torpedo tac or otherwise consoles in that video.
5 tac torp cons would be nice to make point even clearer.
he's talking about APA, but now there's All Hands On Deck...so...yeah...
You surely mean every 15 seconds, not every three minutes?
I don't even have anything on my scimi with 3 min CD.
I also must say again that i didn't even use torpedo tac or otherwise consoles in that video.
5 tac torp cons would be nice to make point even clearer.
Honestly I didn't look at the video (I have no use for youtube), but everywhere else I've seen people complaining about said torp its because they have APA+APO+TacFleet+GDF+etc behind it in which case of course its going to kill things but only every couple of minutes from the long CDs. On the other hand when after all the shouting I picked one up and tried it on my Engie's D'deridex a run of SB24, bring my bow around to Spread3 a group of mobs, it often didn't even bring down a shield facing let alone kill anything. My beams with no active buffs behind them were more effective than this supposedly OP torp with a LtCmdr power behind it, hence my disappointment with it.
Honestly I didn't look at the video (I have no use for youtube), but everywhere else I've seen people complaining about said torp its because they have APA+APO+TacFleet+GDF+etc behind it in which case of course its going to kill things but only every couple of minutes from the long CDs. On the other hand when after all the shouting I picked one up and tried it on my Engie's D'deridex a run of SB24, bring my bow around to Spread3 a group of mobs, it often didn't even bring down a shield facing let alone kill anything. My beams with no active buffs behind them were more effective than this supposedly OP torp with a LtCmdr power behind it, hence my disappointment with it.
I am an Engineer in a Cruiser and can pull out 256k damage without APA+APO+TacFleet+GDF as I do not have any of them. With Torp Spread 3 my damage per torpedo on the tooltip is 20k torp without buffs or crits. That's 60k per volley without a crit and without buffs.
Hmmm just don't get PVE do you, it's about having mega destruction.
Negatory, there...
PvE is different things to different folks. Some folks love tossing those themonuclear grenades into a barrel of goldfish and patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Some folks love when the goldfish are piranha with freakin' lasers on their heads...fighting back.
No matter how much some folks want to make things a PvP vs. PvE issue, that's simply not the case since there are PvE folks that enjoy a challenge too...not all of them grew up with a calendar where mom put a gold sticker on each day the kid remembered to put the underwear on and then the pants.
PvE in this game (especially for the past few seasons) isn't about any sort of new content or mechanics.
It's about "How can I kill this thing that I've killed before faster?"
It's a treadmill to nowhere. The HP buff wasn't about making anything harder, it was just to make things take longer because that treadmill was smokin' even for the most average of players.
We've had endless gear progression without any actual content progression...we're just running that treadmill faster and faster, getting more gear so we can get more gear to get more gear faster, over and over and over. Folks complaining about the grind...why? They're just grinding so they can grind faster...it's not going anywhere...and the journey long ago would leave room in a tweet to talk about everything that happened over the weekend.
The way some folks treat the game, it's like it's a release for them - had a bad day, go play Star Trek Online and commit genocide...you'll feel better! Can see it now, "Doctor: Spend two hours in Argala and call me in the morning."
I am an Engineer in a Cruiser and can pull out 256k damage without APA+APO+TacFleet+GDF as I do not have any of them. With Torp Spread 3 my damage per torpedo on the tooltip is 20k torp without buffs or crits. That's 60k per volley without a crit and without buffs.
Well you're doing something right then. I'm looking at mine right now, Amp*4 + Spread3 + 6 points in Starship Projectile Weapons, and it says 7776 kinetic + 970 radiation times 3 torps. And once that hits a shield sliver most of the kinetic damage evaporates. Honestly I'd ditch it except 1 I already paid for it and 2 I'm one of those people that has to have a torpedo somewhere just for theme. Short of a ton of buffs or loading up on torp consoles (which seems silly for a single weapon), I don't understand where a base as high as yours is coming from.
So, we want to nerf something that was squarely designed to inflict good quality dmg to npc worldly enemies, just because it should have been expected to be powerful in pvp?
Torpedoes like these, finally turn out to be the powerful weapons they should be and, people want them nerfed?
This is why the pvp community tends to get the bad reputation, of being those who have things nerfed so often!
So, we want to nerf something that was squarely designed to inflict good quality dmg to npc worldly enemies, just because it should have been expected to be powerful in pvp?
Torpedoes like these, finally turn out to be the powerful weapons the should be and, people want them nerfed?
This is why the pvp community tends to get the bad reputation, of being those who have things nerfed so often!
Sorry, no.
The damage this torpedo was doing was beyond what was intended. It was broken. This is more of a fix than a nerf.
Again, it's important to note that it's still going to be the most powerful torpedo available.
So, we want to nerf something that was squarely designed to inflict good quality dmg to npc worldly enemies, just because it should have been expected to be powerful in pvp?
Nope, we want to balance a torpedo that is so over the top compared to every other torpedo that a blind man could see it was broken.
This is why the pvp community tends to get the bad reputation, of being those who have things nerfed so often!
Could remove PvP from the game, and things like this would still get reported as issues. It's not a PvP vs. PvE thing...it's more of a gamer vs. Captain Mary Sue sort of thing.
So, we want to nerf something that was squarely designed to inflict good quality dmg to npc worldly enemies, just because it should have been expected to be powerful in pvp?
Torpedoes like these, finally turn out to be the powerful weapons they should be and, people want them nerfed?
This is why the pvp community tends to get the bad reputation, of being those who have things nerfed so often!
how about nerfing those stupid npcs you keep killing so they dont have 4000 trillions hp so you don;t need broken TRIBBLE to end your boring pve?
Nope, we want to balance a torpedo that is so over the top compared to every other torpedo that a blind man could see it was broken.
Shields not losing penetration resistance as they weaken is the disconnect between STO and ST.
Could remove PvP from the game, and things like this would still get reported as issues. It's not a PvP vs. PvE thing...it's more of a gamer vs. Captain Mary Sue sort of thing.
There's nothing really over the top, in regards to its kinetic dmg, because w/o some form of launching reduction, it has over 2X the launch wait time of a standard photon and, virtually 1.5X that of a standard quantum!
The kinetic impact is what would be expected based on nominal launch times, to fall within the quantum based torpedo category!
A few hundred thousand possible dmg per volley with invested dmg, is mere child's play to massive hp sponges in 90% of every npc scenario, only the 10% left over does it insta-eradicate.
So, this would be expected for it to be OPing in a pvp situation, where torpedoes where not in use to begin with much and, where our ship hulls are not in relation to npc health sponges by any close relation.
80-100k ship hull for us, is like the equivalent of the weakest npc ship!
Now, give player(s) 400k-1mill+ hull hp and, that torpedo salvo doesn't seem so OPing now does it?
This is made worse, by the fact shields are so utter weak in most cases, that they might as well be considered hull hp + DR for all their worth!
In 90% of all cases, peoples shield hp is gone in one single salvo of energy weapons fire!
and posts like yours that miss the wider point about the game meta and npc design are why the pve comunity get a bad reputation.
completly missing the point that the mary/marty sue's of the game could get the game experience they want via difficulty settings rather than being divisive.
This has no relation to me what so ever, it is a Cryptic design that dmg/dps be made relevant so much, that items such as this be made powerful in those environments and, not pvp!
Take the matter up with them and, not me when it comes to balance between both scenarios!
All nerfing accomplishes, is making the item worse for pve scenarios, in favor for pvp!!!
There's nothing really over the top, in regards to its kinetic dmg, because w/o some form of launching reduction, it has over 2X the launch wait time of a standard photon and, virtually 1.5X that of a standard quantum!
The kinetic impact is what would be expected based on nominal launch times, to fall within the quantum based torpedo category!
You do realize that the main issue, and the one being fixed, is with the torpedo's damage scaling with Torpedo Spread at higher ranks, and not the base damage, right?
Which is clearly a bug, since that scaling is above and beyond any other torpedo in the game?
It's not the base damage, which is more or less fair. It's the scaling.
You do realize that the main issue, and the one being fixed, is with the torpedo's damage scaling with Torpedo Spread at higher ranks, and not the base damage, right?
Which is clearly a bug, since that scaling is above and beyond any other torpedo in the game?
It's not the base damage, which is more or less fair. It's the scaling.
The scaling isn't off either, it is a superior torpedo when compared to basic torpedoes dmg wise but, it suffers a longer launch time normally!
All they need do, it add better increases to older torpedo designs, to bring them up to speed.
this is a game based on destroying things. that is what makes it dps centric.
no amount of pining for non-combat roles in a combat game will make non combat useful in a combat game.
but congratulations on confirming your divisionist attitude.
why dont you have a think about why the 2 scenarios have such disparity, and figure out some solutions.
and just to be clear, crying to have pvp removed, or for cryptic to split the game so they have to deal with 2 entire code bases instead of one, are not viable options.
the very obvious problem you will see, is the npc design, and the silly trinity ideas they where based around.
It isn't my job to come up with solutions for a game company, it is their job and, they design what they seem fit!
They designed a torpedo designed for active use in a pve scenario, its dmg is based around such and, people are acting like they are surprised it is highly deadly in a pvp scenario, for which it wasn't designed solely for!
People have asked for quite a long time, to make torpedoes more viable, so you don't have to dedicate squarely on being a torpedo boat and, this is one torpedo that seems to fit that niche.
Whether they intended on the ability to ramp up its capability, thru increased dmg adders is yet to be known to us but, trying to say it requires a dumb down simply to favor the lesser played side of the game, while effectively hurting the side it was meant for mostly is a one sided coin!
Ask them to do something about balance to pvp and, you see where it has gotten so far, harping to me isn't going to accomplish anything at all!
I merely point out, that the torpedo wasn't designed for balance based around pvp and, meant mainly for combat against high hp npc enemies in pve.
In pve it does its job like it is meant to do, as for pvp like many things it will seem OP and, out of place and, this is not the fault of myself nor, pve player(s) in general!
What really sucks is that as soon as this nerf goes through, all the PvP crowd will do is hop back to the previous generation uber builds for vaping, still one shot killing each other, while the PvE crowd has to go back to 8 beam boats due to torps being useless again but are still stuck with the last updates reduced timers and increased requirements for completing missions on Advanced and Elite.
In short, PvP looses a new toy and goes back to an old one that does the same thing. PvE looses a good new toy but then has to figure out how to keep up with the added requirements and difficulty.
I dont mind balance in a sense of scale, but when an Engineer captain in a Science ship (like mine, in a T5 non U non Fleet Intreped) is getting higher DPS than his four team mates combined, there is a problem.
I LOVED this torpedo, LOVED it, and you know what? I dont even have one! I loved it because seeing that thing fire off in a mission was like a signal flare, it told me 'thank god they have the handicap on' because I'm getting tired of pestering friends and fleet mates to do mark runs when the average player seems incapable of 2k DPS.
So my vote? Either turn the Red Shirt server into a PvP server, or give every weapon/piece of gear in the game two sets of stats. Normal stats for normal game play, and a mod free proc free 1/10th value version for PvP, that would scale the weapons damage and effect from the hull and shields of NPCs to what players have.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
This endless circle of nerfing (or wanting things nerfed) from both the devs and from the players really should stop, and for once, consider buffing the other things. Set a few new standards as part of the new meta. They're trying to overhaul portions of the game to make it more enticing; so why not make some of the older weapons more enticing as well?
Now would be a good time as any to take a look at older weapons and bring them up to par with the new meta Cryptic themselves have set, especially torpedoes and mines, as well as regular Dual Cannons and normal Cannons. And if anything needed adjustment, it's AP weapons as a whole (making its innate CrtD bonus either have the weapons lose a mod per rarity or made a 2.5% CrtD chance on critical or something).
Sure, I get they don't want their darling toys representing DR to be overshadowed too much. Think about it; Neutronic is tied to Delta Reputation, which requires running their Delta-related queues for the rare drops and marks needed for them; so they're not likely to nerf it until they need more metrics in some other queues. But the least they can do is bring up some of the older weapons and equipment to make them reasonable alternatives.
Give normal non-Rep weapons additional unique mods (or in AP's case, take a mod away or adjust it) beyond just Over/Spread/Pen/Snare. For example, an [Extend] mod, which doubles the firing duration of the weapon before it "reloads"/recharges, making it capable of firing a double BO or an extended FaW/CSV/CRF from that emitter/cannon. Or a add the [Radius] mod to regular projectiles and other mines for a bit of AoE potential. Heck, allow for the [CrtX] mods on them as well.
Additionally, they should also allow for Mod picking in R&D at an increased cost (Dilithium, mats, etc; just allow for some picking period), to further make old-fashioned/classic weapons even more tempting over fixed mods of Dilithium weapons (from Rep stores) or Rep/Lockbox weapons.
We cannot really compare it for say, to a standard quantum, because the standardized launch time for a quantum is 8secs., while the neutronic is 15secs.
It would fit into a different class of torpedo altogether!
Granted, the other torpedo types actually need a increase but, by no means really does this torpedo need a decrease IMO.
Making it closer resemble a completely different torpedo, in regards to spread dmg, than keeping it at almost double that for regular launch times, will work towards even less dps than indicated overall!
Even with the 2pc. bonus of 20% cd reduction, that is still an average launch wait of 12secs.
We cannot really compare it for say, to a standard quantum, because the standardized launch time for a quantum is 8secs., while the neutronic is 15secs.
Sure we can...same way we can compare a Photon and a Quantum. The Photon is 6s and has a base of 1352. The Quantum is 8s and has a base of 1503.
Tada...simple.
The Neutronic is 15s and has a base of 1830...as well as a 3km AoE that does Rad damage, drains subsystem power, and reduces power transfer rate.
So you compare it to a standard Quantum, yeah?
Increased damage? Yep.
3km AoE doing Rad damage, draining subsystem power, and reducing transfer rate? Yep.
Guess what's going to happen to the CD/recharge on the torp?
Longer!
Tada...simple...done.
edit: My bad, I forgot the Unique equip to help offset the advantages it has over the standard Quantum which aren't covered by just boosting its recharge.
Like the Grav Photon, it's 8s instead of 6s, maintains the same 1352 base, has the chance to create a Grav Rift, and is Unique equip.
Like the Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon, maintains the 1352 base, maintains the 6s, but has the Bio-Molecular action going for it, which gives it 4 mods instead of three...and ends up Unique equip.
The regular Bio-Molecular Photons by comparison, have a 7s recharge and only 3 mods...not Unique equip.
Things are balanced at the weapon.
Torp Spread is a neutral buff. Asking for it to affect torps differently would be like asking for Torp Tac Consoles to affect them differently...that Quantum console should be +X% for Quantums and +Y% for the Neutronic.
If somebody has balancing concerns with a torpedo, then the place to address them is with the torpedo.
The TS issue a TS issue...it's not working correctly with all the torps.
wow this thread actually hurts to read. So much misinformation from peeps who think they are going to lose the only good torpedo. Well news it's the only good torpedo because it's insanely broken.
Easy fix is to stop the excessive scaling.
To those who think that fixing the balance in this game is impossible, you are wholly wrong. It just takes someone who has the drive and the knowledge to do a full pass of the content to do so. Seeing as Space is totally disconnected from Ground that reduces the pressure as you can concentrate on a single area straight up. Seeing as there are many MMO's that have balance that works and has worked for years (yes there's bugs but they work on those for the most part), there's absolutely no reason STO cannot be rebalanced to reduce the difficulty issues and player competence issues.
Player competence is partly tutelage and partly knowledge. However there will always be a split like in any real world sport. You don't hear someone who plays Tennis at club level whining they can't beat Novak Djokovic or Andy Murray. There will always be those that put the effort in to be the best. It's only in computer gaming where those who play casually claim they should be among the best just because they grace the game with their presence...
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Comments
PvE-only players do not have any reason at all to even start discussing the nerf. What does it matter to them? All they do is shooting a bunch of hitpoints who don't even adapt to your build. I may even prove mercy for how helpless those "pesky "NPCs" are.
In PvP, Neutronic used to do entire team wipeouts and inflated scoreboards, due to the fact it hit all sort of things. The upcoming fix will put an end to the oneshot builds; all that remains to fix is surgical strikes to make it playable again.
Just, give me a reason of why PvE players should cry for the upcoming nerf. Why?
what?
Wait, what?
You surely mean every 15 seconds, not every three minutes?
I don't even have anything on my scimi with 3 min CD.
I also must say again that i didn't even use torpedo tac or otherwise consoles in that video.
5 tac torp cons would be nice to make point even clearer.
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SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
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he's talking about APA, but now there's All Hands On Deck...so...yeah...
Honestly I didn't look at the video (I have no use for youtube), but everywhere else I've seen people complaining about said torp its because they have APA+APO+TacFleet+GDF+etc behind it in which case of course its going to kill things but only every couple of minutes from the long CDs. On the other hand when after all the shouting I picked one up and tried it on my Engie's D'deridex a run of SB24, bring my bow around to Spread3 a group of mobs, it often didn't even bring down a shield facing let alone kill anything. My beams with no active buffs behind them were more effective than this supposedly OP torp with a LtCmdr power behind it, hence my disappointment with it.
Hmmm just don't get PVE do you, it's about having mega destruction.
Sorry to the PVP crowd; because I know how you feel, it's like when Classic PVP died.
Everything coming out in the game is being made now for 99% of the players.
Cryptic is in business to make money, many think the big spenders are not the PVPers.
One time in the game the PVP crowd was funding STO via the Pay To Win model.
Just don't see the PVP folks dishing out more money than the DPS inclined.
So there you have it you want more PVP content, PVP balance then starting forking out money.
No business is going to spend money on less than 1% of the their customer base when they can keep the other 99% happy.
I am an Engineer in a Cruiser and can pull out 256k damage without APA+APO+TacFleet+GDF as I do not have any of them. With Torp Spread 3 my damage per torpedo on the tooltip is 20k torp without buffs or crits. That's 60k per volley without a crit and without buffs.
Negatory, there...
PvE is different things to different folks. Some folks love tossing those themonuclear grenades into a barrel of goldfish and patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Some folks love when the goldfish are piranha with freakin' lasers on their heads...fighting back.
No matter how much some folks want to make things a PvP vs. PvE issue, that's simply not the case since there are PvE folks that enjoy a challenge too...not all of them grew up with a calendar where mom put a gold sticker on each day the kid remembered to put the underwear on and then the pants.
It's about "How can I kill this thing that I've killed before faster?"
It's a treadmill to nowhere. The HP buff wasn't about making anything harder, it was just to make things take longer because that treadmill was smokin' even for the most average of players.
We've had endless gear progression without any actual content progression...we're just running that treadmill faster and faster, getting more gear so we can get more gear to get more gear faster, over and over and over. Folks complaining about the grind...why? They're just grinding so they can grind faster...it's not going anywhere...and the journey long ago would leave room in a tweet to talk about everything that happened over the weekend.
The way some folks treat the game, it's like it's a release for them - had a bad day, go play Star Trek Online and commit genocide...you'll feel better! Can see it now, "Doctor: Spend two hours in Argala and call me in the morning."
Well you're doing something right then. I'm looking at mine right now, Amp*4 + Spread3 + 6 points in Starship Projectile Weapons, and it says 7776 kinetic + 970 radiation times 3 torps. And once that hits a shield sliver most of the kinetic damage evaporates. Honestly I'd ditch it except 1 I already paid for it and 2 I'm one of those people that has to have a torpedo somewhere just for theme. Short of a ton of buffs or loading up on torp consoles (which seems silly for a single weapon), I don't understand where a base as high as yours is coming from.
Torpedoes like these, finally turn out to be the powerful weapons they should be and, people want them nerfed?
This is why the pvp community tends to get the bad reputation, of being those who have things nerfed so often!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Sorry, no.
The damage this torpedo was doing was beyond what was intended. It was broken. This is more of a fix than a nerf.
Again, it's important to note that it's still going to be the most powerful torpedo available.
Nope, we want to balance a torpedo that is so over the top compared to every other torpedo that a blind man could see it was broken.
Shields not losing penetration resistance as they weaken is the disconnect between STO and ST.
Could remove PvP from the game, and things like this would still get reported as issues. It's not a PvP vs. PvE thing...it's more of a gamer vs. Captain Mary Sue sort of thing.
how about nerfing those stupid npcs you keep killing so they dont have 4000 trillions hp so you don;t need broken TRIBBLE to end your boring pve?
There's nothing really over the top, in regards to its kinetic dmg, because w/o some form of launching reduction, it has over 2X the launch wait time of a standard photon and, virtually 1.5X that of a standard quantum!
The kinetic impact is what would be expected based on nominal launch times, to fall within the quantum based torpedo category!
A few hundred thousand possible dmg per volley with invested dmg, is mere child's play to massive hp sponges in 90% of every npc scenario, only the 10% left over does it insta-eradicate.
So, this would be expected for it to be OPing in a pvp situation, where torpedoes where not in use to begin with much and, where our ship hulls are not in relation to npc health sponges by any close relation.
80-100k ship hull for us, is like the equivalent of the weakest npc ship!
Now, give player(s) 400k-1mill+ hull hp and, that torpedo salvo doesn't seem so OPing now does it?
This is made worse, by the fact shields are so utter weak in most cases, that they might as well be considered hull hp + DR for all their worth!
In 90% of all cases, peoples shield hp is gone in one single salvo of energy weapons fire!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Now this I would gladly agree with, this is one of the issues why dmg is so over the top!
It's because we are using weapons, meant for that kind of environment, than people wonder why killing of player ships seem pretty quick!
You want balance, it has to be handled on both ends equally!
Massive hp sponges + time crunches is what forces massive dmg requirements, for which make for over the top dmg in a pvp scenario.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Edited for spelling. Smart phones...
It is balanced, for a pve scenario!
You cannot expect something designed to help kill npc hp values, to fall in line with captain ship hp values!
Unless you balance both fairly!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
This has no relation to me what so ever, it is a Cryptic design that dmg/dps be made relevant so much, that items such as this be made powerful in those environments and, not pvp!
Take the matter up with them and, not me when it comes to balance between both scenarios!
All nerfing accomplishes, is making the item worse for pve scenarios, in favor for pvp!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
You do realize that the main issue, and the one being fixed, is with the torpedo's damage scaling with Torpedo Spread at higher ranks, and not the base damage, right?
Which is clearly a bug, since that scaling is above and beyond any other torpedo in the game?
It's not the base damage, which is more or less fair. It's the scaling.
The scaling isn't off either, it is a superior torpedo when compared to basic torpedoes dmg wise but, it suffers a longer launch time normally!
All they need do, it add better increases to older torpedo designs, to bring them up to speed.
It isn't my job to come up with solutions for a game company, it is their job and, they design what they seem fit!
They designed a torpedo designed for active use in a pve scenario, its dmg is based around such and, people are acting like they are surprised it is highly deadly in a pvp scenario, for which it wasn't designed solely for!
People have asked for quite a long time, to make torpedoes more viable, so you don't have to dedicate squarely on being a torpedo boat and, this is one torpedo that seems to fit that niche.
Whether they intended on the ability to ramp up its capability, thru increased dmg adders is yet to be known to us but, trying to say it requires a dumb down simply to favor the lesser played side of the game, while effectively hurting the side it was meant for mostly is a one sided coin!
Ask them to do something about balance to pvp and, you see where it has gotten so far, harping to me isn't going to accomplish anything at all!
I merely point out, that the torpedo wasn't designed for balance based around pvp and, meant mainly for combat against high hp npc enemies in pve.
In pve it does its job like it is meant to do, as for pvp like many things it will seem OP and, out of place and, this is not the fault of myself nor, pve player(s) in general!
It is the game developer's!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
In short, PvP looses a new toy and goes back to an old one that does the same thing. PvE looses a good new toy but then has to figure out how to keep up with the added requirements and difficulty.
I dont mind balance in a sense of scale, but when an Engineer captain in a Science ship (like mine, in a T5 non U non Fleet Intreped) is getting higher DPS than his four team mates combined, there is a problem.
I LOVED this torpedo, LOVED it, and you know what? I dont even have one! I loved it because seeing that thing fire off in a mission was like a signal flare, it told me 'thank god they have the handicap on' because I'm getting tired of pestering friends and fleet mates to do mark runs when the average player seems incapable of 2k DPS.
So my vote? Either turn the Red Shirt server into a PvP server, or give every weapon/piece of gear in the game two sets of stats. Normal stats for normal game play, and a mod free proc free 1/10th value version for PvP, that would scale the weapons damage and effect from the hull and shields of NPCs to what players have.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Now would be a good time as any to take a look at older weapons and bring them up to par with the new meta Cryptic themselves have set, especially torpedoes and mines, as well as regular Dual Cannons and normal Cannons. And if anything needed adjustment, it's AP weapons as a whole (making its innate CrtD bonus either have the weapons lose a mod per rarity or made a 2.5% CrtD chance on critical or something).
Sure, I get they don't want their darling toys representing DR to be overshadowed too much. Think about it; Neutronic is tied to Delta Reputation, which requires running their Delta-related queues for the rare drops and marks needed for them; so they're not likely to nerf it until they need more metrics in some other queues. But the least they can do is bring up some of the older weapons and equipment to make them reasonable alternatives.
Give normal non-Rep weapons additional unique mods (or in AP's case, take a mod away or adjust it) beyond just Over/Spread/Pen/Snare. For example, an [Extend] mod, which doubles the firing duration of the weapon before it "reloads"/recharges, making it capable of firing a double BO or an extended FaW/CSV/CRF from that emitter/cannon. Or a add the [Radius] mod to regular projectiles and other mines for a bit of AoE potential. Heck, allow for the [CrtX] mods on them as well.
Additionally, they should also allow for Mod picking in R&D at an increased cost (Dilithium, mats, etc; just allow for some picking period), to further make old-fashioned/classic weapons even more tempting over fixed mods of Dilithium weapons (from Rep stores) or Rep/Lockbox weapons.
Standard TS2: 200%
Standard TS3: 230%
Neutronic TS1: 120% (-50% below standard)
Neutronic TS2: 240% (+40% above standard)
Neutronic TS3: 360% (+130% above standard)
So yeah, the Neutronic's broken scaling is being fixed.
Do other torpedoes need to be fixed to be brought in line with that scaling?
Definitely...
Chroniton/Transphasic TS1: 138% (-32% below standard)
Chroniton/Transphasic TS2: 158% (-42% below standard)
Chroniton/Transphasic TS3: 178% (-52% below standard)
Elachi TS1: 160% (-10% below standard)
Elachi TS2: 183% (-17% below standard)
Elachi TS3: 206% (-27% below standard)
We cannot really compare it for say, to a standard quantum, because the standardized launch time for a quantum is 8secs., while the neutronic is 15secs.
It would fit into a different class of torpedo altogether!
Granted, the other torpedo types actually need a increase but, by no means really does this torpedo need a decrease IMO.
Making it closer resemble a completely different torpedo, in regards to spread dmg, than keeping it at almost double that for regular launch times, will work towards even less dps than indicated overall!
Even with the 2pc. bonus of 20% cd reduction, that is still an average launch wait of 12secs.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Sure we can...same way we can compare a Photon and a Quantum. The Photon is 6s and has a base of 1352. The Quantum is 8s and has a base of 1503.
Tada...simple.
The Neutronic is 15s and has a base of 1830...as well as a 3km AoE that does Rad damage, drains subsystem power, and reduces power transfer rate.
So you compare it to a standard Quantum, yeah?
Increased damage? Yep.
3km AoE doing Rad damage, draining subsystem power, and reducing transfer rate? Yep.
Guess what's going to happen to the CD/recharge on the torp?
Longer!
Tada...simple...done.
edit: My bad, I forgot the Unique equip to help offset the advantages it has over the standard Quantum which aren't covered by just boosting its recharge.
Like the Grav Photon, it's 8s instead of 6s, maintains the same 1352 base, has the chance to create a Grav Rift, and is Unique equip.
Like the Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon, maintains the 1352 base, maintains the 6s, but has the Bio-Molecular action going for it, which gives it 4 mods instead of three...and ends up Unique equip.
The regular Bio-Molecular Photons by comparison, have a 7s recharge and only 3 mods...not Unique equip.
Things are balanced at the weapon.
Torp Spread is a neutral buff. Asking for it to affect torps differently would be like asking for Torp Tac Consoles to affect them differently...that Quantum console should be +X% for Quantums and +Y% for the Neutronic.
If somebody has balancing concerns with a torpedo, then the place to address them is with the torpedo.
The TS issue a TS issue...it's not working correctly with all the torps.
Easy fix is to stop the excessive scaling.
To those who think that fixing the balance in this game is impossible, you are wholly wrong. It just takes someone who has the drive and the knowledge to do a full pass of the content to do so. Seeing as Space is totally disconnected from Ground that reduces the pressure as you can concentrate on a single area straight up. Seeing as there are many MMO's that have balance that works and has worked for years (yes there's bugs but they work on those for the most part), there's absolutely no reason STO cannot be rebalanced to reduce the difficulty issues and player competence issues.
Player competence is partly tutelage and partly knowledge. However there will always be a split like in any real world sport. You don't hear someone who plays Tennis at club level whining they can't beat Novak Djokovic or Andy Murray. There will always be those that put the effort in to be the best. It's only in computer gaming where those who play casually claim they should be among the best just because they grace the game with their presence...
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."