I'd have said it, but happyhappyj0yj0y pretty much already did. Really, you could have brought the buffs first. I am eminently reminded of Season 7, when Dilithium was completely removed from STFs and the Foundry daily was completely deleted. We were promised more later, in other places. I do not recall seeing those places materialize since. This is only softened by the fact that Dilithium was re-added to STFs almost immediately... due to player outrage of a type similar to this. And j0y has another point: When is "soon"? I remember in a Priority One segment not long before Season 9.5, Geko himself said that the ability to choose item mods in Crafting was being built into the system, but was not ready for launch, but would be coming "soon." Now, six months later, devs have been quoted saying that the system was NOT designed for it and that it MIGHT happen in the future. We're JUST now getting Secondary Deflectors, and those have been "coming soon" for YEARS. Another fine example is the Galaxy Dreadnought Saucer Separation. A picture of it working internally was released a full two years and a month before it hit the game.
The "nerf now, fix later" model is a terrible one, especially when the playerbase of a game does not trust the developers. And I'll be direct: We don't trust you, Cryptic. Dilithium sink after Dilithium sink after Dilithium sink. Nerfs to XP given by patrols. Nerfs tothe rewards of Foundry content (see Season 7). Bad design decisions regarding the level cap increase and how players got there. The massive Crafting grind. The debacle around the Upgrade system. The usually-steady power creep. The lack of transparency. And on top of it all, the fact that you expect us to grind out 7 crafting schools, 5 Reputations and contribute to Fleet Starbase projects, all on 8,000 Dilithium. The fact of the matter is, Cryptic... you've made some pretty terrible design decisions in the past, and have rarely given us a reason to trust you on these matters. We worry every time that the next update will harm us just that little more. You take, and you take, and you take. I love this game, and I love your enthusiasm for the IP... but your decisions are harming players.
If you're going to buff things, buff them now. It won't hurt to let players have a little more income for a little while. Call it an anniversary gift to us, if you like. Give us the buffs now, and nerf gradually later, if you insist on nerfing anything. After all, the biggest complaint 99% of players have is that the game feels like a massive grind. Why not just buff? Give players more? I mean, after Delta Rising, the power gap between fully-geared players and new 50s (when they can access end-game content and gear) is so vast, and takes so long to bridge, that it is effectively impossible for a casual player to cross. And all of it is done to be able to perform well enough to play content... that gives you more stuff for your grind. Where is the fun? What are we grinding for? There's no "challenging, but fun, rewarding boss" at the end. It's just grind for more grind. Every large update adds more. And that has been a development trend for years. Let me break it down:
Season 6 added the Fleet System. Huge grind. Probably the biggest in the game. Season 7 added two reputations as well as the Reputation system itself. Each new Reputation takes over a month to complete and requires several days' worth of Dilithium to get gear from, not to mention the marks you need to grind out. It also added the Fleet Embassy Holding, which is a big Fleet Gind. Legacy of Romulus added the Romulan faction (so you can grind out new level 50 alts to grind out Fleet stuff and Reputations), the Dilithium Mine Fleet Holding (another big Fleet Grind) and another Reputation (now 3). Come Season 8, we get the Dyson Reputation (now 4) and the Fleet Spire (the third Fleet Holding and thus, the fourth huge Fleet Grind). Season 9 gave us the 8472 Counter-Command Reputation (now 5 different Reputations), with its mid-Season partner (season 9.5) giving us the massive time-consuming Crafting grind. Then we get to Delta Rising, adding the Delta Alliance Reputation (now SIX Reputations), Item Upgrading and the massive Dilithium and resource sink it is, the horribly-botched Level Cap increase, Captain Specializations, so we can XP grind past the Level Cap, and Tier 5-U/Tier 6 Ships we can grind to master. And this doesn't even begin to count the Dilithium Exchange. Now we're getting this update (what, Delta point five?) with another new Captain Specialization, Secondary Deflectors added to Crafting, and a revamped BOff training mechanic which.. eh, it's not that bad, but it's still a Dilithium tax, and we have well enough of those. And this is all before the three winter events and two summer events to grind out free ships. And last year's Anniversary ship, which (quite frankly) makes me uneasy about this year's.
Simply put, there is so much grinding, that the players are not grinding. They are being ground up. The playerbase is so much like a fine powder now, that any breeze of other games or new nerfs blows them away from this game. This, from player mattjohnsonva's signature, is the three-month trend since Delta Rising. You are bleeding players slowly, and no one is recommending people join this game. Now you are removing mark rewards from content that few people play and funneling them into content you seem to want them to play. This is to your detriment. We do not need reward removals. We need reward increases. The grind has become unbearable.
I say this because I love this game, and I want it to succeed. I want to see this game become huge. And I want to see people enjoy it. So in that vein, I say this: The trend... must... end. We do not need more grind. We do not want more grind. We want to enjoy this game. Updates like this, that you insist you will remedy later, make people not want to play the game. Give us more rewards. Give us less grinding. Give us fun things to do that are worth doing. Adding Dilithium and "Elite Marks" to single-payer content is a GREAT first step. Increasing XP rewards will be a massive boon. But it all needs to happen sooner, not later. Please, Cryptic... give us a break.
BEAUTIFULLY written, thoughtful feedback/criticism! Tank you very much for that! MUCH better Than I could*ever* say it!
While I am still frustrated with the direction that things are going and I think that what's best would be to up a majority of the non-DR rewards without nerfing other stuff...I have to say, it is refreshing to get something even as simple as "Your concerns are heard." I admit it. I have been in a VERY bad mood today because of some customer service stuff both IRL and seeing what was going on here. This helps a bit.
We'll need to see concrete and sensible action to help change this perception.
As I told Gorngonzolla, what could really help all of you would be to do what he did and thoroughly explain the team thought process behind the decisions made and how our concerns were taken into account...and if they are not, why (and NOT just "we think you earn too much") it would be detrimental to the game not to.
Agreed. Assurances are no longer enough. After everything that's happened, we need to be shown evidence and have it explained to us IN DETAIL if they want us to believe it's a good thing.
And action preceded by strong, solid QA and acceptance of feedback to ensure the proposed changes do NOT backfire.
I would add to this that I have multiple times since DR's release told friends of mine not to join the game at this time. And I felt BAD doing so. One of them was very much on the verge of joining until I warned him.
I WANT to be able to recommend it to other people. I don't WANT to give a "do not recommend."
Devs, since you have a lot of different metrics you watch, let me introduce you to another metric that I was used to in retail. Some stores call it the Net Promoter Score. Now, there is more that goes into measuring customer satisfaction than the NPS, and some of it is very qualitative, but it is important to point out that the two important pieces behind the NPS metric are:
--Would you definitely return to this store? (Or in STO's case we could say, would you definitely log in again and play soon?)
--Would you definitely recommend this store to someone else? (Or recommend another join the game, in this case.)
Let's say you score the NPS on a 5-point scale with 5 being Definitely Return / Definitely Recommend and 1 being Definitely Will Not Return / Recommend.
Here's the eye-opener.
Where I worked, anything less than a 5 would count as 0 or -100. ONLY a 5 got you 100 points. One bad or even just "not good enough" survey would absolutely murder your score. And this is a GOOD thing, that it was this stringent.
Why? One angry or dissatisfied customer or even a customer whose lack of enthusiasm conveys more than words could to those around them, is enough to "infect" 10 people with the same negative opinion. (I've infected 2 so far...I don't WANT to go for the full 10 but IF I am put on the spot and asked the question, I would do it again unless I see concrete action.)
But one satisfied customer...only tells a few people how happy they are.
One unhappy customer destroys all the good work building a relationship with 5 or even 10 or more happy customers. The infection spreads exponentially.
Please, even if you don't roll out a playerbase-wide customer service survey, THINK in terms of this metric. It may not be directly able to be correlated with X amount of money or X amount of time spent in the game, but if you think about how player happiness affects the answers to those two questions, and how the answers to those two questions affect player behavior towards others, and what kind of growth or destruction those actions cause...it will help.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Thank you for the clarification. I'm really glad to hear that the reward structures are going in the right direction (which would be exactly what you're doing.)
Also thank you for being very timely with posting this thread. This is the kind of communication we need when changes are being made. It's nice to know what's being changed, why, and the overall goal for it.
Some of the game's problem also stems from too many reputation currencies.
Fragmentation is a major issue I personally deal with in Star Trek Online. I want to play with my friends but they may not have the same goal-oriented mindset I do.
Maybe I want Fleet Marks to finish off a project, but they want Romulan marks since they never got around to it. So then I spend time getting Romulan marks for... well, dilithium I guess. But the payout for Fleet Marks could have been better doing something else like Fleet Alert.
Or maybe I want spec points, but they want Delta Marks. I do Bug Hunt but the payout for Skill Points and Expertise just isn't as lucrative as Argala.
Maybe I just feel like killing Undine for the sheer mindless fun of blowing ships up in the Undine battlezone, but I really need Delta Marks for my rep gear, but I don't feel like doing the Kobali Battlezone.
When I can't really play with my friends, or if I have to choose between my goals in STO and somebody else's goals in STO, I get unhappy. It is bad enough I have to choose between working for my fleet's progress and working for my personal progress. But Delta Rising just ushered in way more issues with that.
The alt unfriendliness of Delta Rising is just a symptom of the bigger problem, and yes, too many reputation currencies is also a symptom.
I'd have said it, but happyhappyj0yj0y pretty much already did. Really, you could have brought the buffs first. I am eminently reminded of Season 7, when Dilithium was completely removed from STFs and the Foundry daily was completely deleted. We were promised more later, in other places. I do not recall seeing those places materialize since. This is only softened by the fact that Dilithium was re-added to STFs almost immediately... due to player outrage of a type similar to this. And j0y has another point: When is "soon"? I remember in a Priority One segment not long before Season 9.5, Geko himself said that the ability to choose item mods in Crafting was being built into the system, but was not ready for launch, but would be coming "soon." Now, six months later, devs have been quoted saying that the system was NOT designed for it and that it MIGHT happen in the future. We're JUST now getting Secondary Deflectors, and those have been "coming soon" for YEARS. Another fine example is the Galaxy Dreadnought Saucer Separation. A picture of it working internally was released a full two years and a month before it hit the game.
The "nerf now, fix later" model is a terrible one, especially when the playerbase of a game does not trust the developers. And I'll be direct: We don't trust you, Cryptic. Dilithium sink after Dilithium sink after Dilithium sink. Nerfs to XP given by patrols. Nerfs to the rewards of Foundry content (see Season 7). Bad design decisions regarding the level cap increase and how players got there. The massive Crafting grind. The debacle around the Upgrade system. The usually-steady power creep. The lack of transparency. And on top of it all, the fact that you expect us to grind out 7 crafting schools, 6 Reputations and contribute to Fleet Starbase projects, all on 8,000 Dilithium. The fact of the matter is, Cryptic... you've made some pretty terrible design decisions in the past, and have rarely given us a reason to trust you on these matters. We worry every time that the next update will harm us just that little more. You take, and you take, and you take. I love this game, and I love your enthusiasm for the IP... but your decisions are harming players.
If you're going to buff things, buff them now. It won't hurt to let players have a little more income for a little while. Call it an anniversary gift to us, if you like. Give us the buffs now, and nerf gradually later, if you insist on nerfing anything. After all, the biggest complaint 99% of players have is that the game feels like a massive grind. Why not just buff? Give players more? I mean, after Delta Rising, the power gap between fully-geared players and new 50s (when they can access end-game content and gear) is so vast, and takes so long to bridge, that it is effectively impossible for a casual player to cross. And all of it is done to be able to perform well enough to play content... that gives you more stuff for your grind. Where is the fun? What are we grinding for? There's no "challenging, but fun, rewarding boss" at the end. It's just grind for more grind. Every large update adds more. And that has been a development trend for years. Let me break it down:
Season 6 added the Fleet System. Huge grind. Probably the biggest in the game. Season 7 added two reputations as well as the Reputation system itself. Each new Reputation takes over a month to complete and requires several days' worth of Dilithium to get gear from, not to mention the marks you need to grind out. It also added the Fleet Embassy Holding, which is a big Fleet Gind. Legacy of Romulus added the Romulan faction (so you can grind out new level 50 alts to grind out Fleet stuff and Reputations), the Dilithium Mine Fleet Holding (another big Fleet Grind) and another Reputation (now 3). Come Season 8, we get the Dyson Reputation (now 4) and the Fleet Spire (the third Fleet Holding and thus, the fourth huge Fleet Grind). Season 9 gave us the 8472 Counter-Command Reputation (now 5 different Reputations), with its mid-Season partner (season 9.5) giving us the massive time-consuming Crafting grind. Then we get to Delta Rising, adding the Delta Alliance Reputation (now SIX Reputations), Item Upgrading and the massive Dilithium and resource sink it is, the horribly-botched Level Cap increase, Captain Specializations, so we can XP grind past the Level Cap, and Tier 5-U/Tier 6 Ships we can grind to master. And this doesn't even begin to count the Dilithium Exchange. Now we're getting this update (what, Delta point five?) with another new Captain Specialization, Secondary Deflectors added to Crafting, and a revamped BOff training mechanic which.. eh, it's not that bad, but it's still a Dilithium tax, and we have well enough of those. And this is all before the three winter events and two summer events to grind out free ships. And last year's Anniversary ship, which (quite frankly) makes me uneasy about this year's.
Simply put, there is so much grinding, that the players are not grinding. They are being ground up. The playerbase is so much like a fine powder now, that any breeze of other games or new nerfs blows them away from this game. This, from player mattjohnsonva's signature, is the three-month trend since Delta Rising. You are bleeding players slowly, and no one is recommending people join this game. Now you are removing mark rewards from content that few people play and funneling them into content you seem to want them to play. This is to your detriment. We do not need reward removals. We need reward increases. The grind has become unbearable.
I say this because I love this game, and I want it to succeed. I want to see this game become huge. And I want to see people enjoy it. So in that vein, I say this: The trend... must... end. We do not need more grind. We do not want more grind. We want to enjoy this game. Updates like this, that you insist you will remedy later, make people not want to play the game. Give us more rewards. Give us less grinding. Give us fun things to do that are worth doing. Adding Dilithium and "Elite Marks" to single-payer content is a GREAT first step. Increasing XP rewards will be a massive boon. But it all needs to happen sooner, not later. Please, Cryptic... give us a break.
I think this article sums up everything nicely. It's honest. It's direct.
I appreciate this attempt at explaining (and not only describing) changes. Those changes actually do make sense in that they're aimed at balancing some parts of the game. However balancing small parts of the game cannot be greeted with joy by players when A) it mainly consists of nerfs, however small they are; and the game overall doesn't seem balanced, not just small parts of it.
Some of the blatant gamewide imbalances currently are XP gain rates, being all the more obvious in all ground content that pays virtually no XP at all, or dilithium sources versus dilithium sinks.
I would like to see Cryptic's statistics and an explanation of your methodology, because some of your conclusions seem counter to player experience. It seems strange to me that you would change Cure Space, but not Infected Space and Khitomer Accord Space. I would say that Cure Space is harder than the other two, at least on Advanced difficulty. Other people have claimed that Bug Hunt is easy. I have not played Bug Hunt, so I will have to take their word for it, but Cryptic's decision to increase rewards for Bug Hunt seems counter to their experience. Of course, each person's experience is subjective. That's why you should collect statistics. But if your conclusions seem wrong to players prima facie, then it's worth scrutinizing your analysis for errors.
Some questions that come to mind:
1. Did you separate private matches from PUGs? Not separating the two groups could lead to spurious conclusions. For example, suppose Cure Space Advanced has a high failure rate in PUGs, but a low failure rate in private matches. Bad experiences may lead to fewer PUG matches, so the distribution becomes more heavily weighted toward private matches. The overall success rate would then increase, but the high success rate does not imply low difficulty.
2. Over what period of time did you collect your data? In another thread, virusdancer pointed out that there have been several balance patches since the launch of Delta Rising. If you lumped together data across patches, then your data would not reflect the present state. Other considerations are
(a) For the first few weeks after the launch of Delta Rising, the data would be heavily weighted towards new content.
(b) During the winter event, there is a drop in all activity not related to the winter event.
3. How did you deal with missions that are hardly played at all? Do you have a large enough sample?
Note that low participation has other causes besides high difficulty and low rewards. Sometimes, the required number of players is too high. I think Klingon Scout Force and The Big Dig both fall into this category. Before Delta Rising, I remember seeing the number of players queued hover below the threshold for long periods of time---increasing and decreasing without the mission ever starting. Occasionally, the confirmation window with the "Engage" button would pop up, but it would time out because not enough players had accepted the mission. After Delta Rising, hardly anyone queues for these two missions anymore, even during the dailies. I suspect that many people have decided to stop queuing for them, because they never start.
4. How did you measure player participation? The number of times a mission was played during a fixed period of time is not necessarily the best measure of participation. You should also count the number of distinct players for each mission. Each account should be counted only once, even if the mission was played multiple times on the same account during the time period. Certain missions may be played over and over by a small group of players. Your statistics may say more about that group than the mission itself.
As usual from frtoaster, some very good points.
Not to mention I'm starting to think their statistics might plain and simple be bugged and thus overall report false data.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I'd have said it, but happyhappyj0yj0y pretty much already did. Really, you could have brought the buffs first. I am eminently reminded of Season 7, when Dilithium was completely removed from STFs and the Foundry daily was completely deleted. We were promised more later, in other places. I do not recall seeing those places materialize since. This is only softened by the fact that Dilithium was re-added to STFs almost immediately... due to player outrage of a type similar to this. And j0y has another point: When is "soon"? I remember in a Priority One segment not long before Season 9.5, Geko himself said that the ability to choose item mods in Crafting was being built into the system, but was not ready for launch, but would be coming "soon." Now, six months later, devs have been quoted saying that the system was NOT designed for it and that it MIGHT happen in the future. We're JUST now getting Secondary Deflectors, and those have been "coming soon" for YEARS. Another fine example is the Galaxy Dreadnought Saucer Separation. A picture of it working internally was released a full two years and a month before it hit the game.
The "nerf now, fix later" model is a terrible one, especially when the playerbase of a game does not trust the developers. And I'll be direct: We don't trust you, Cryptic. Dilithium sink after Dilithium sink after Dilithium sink. Nerfs to XP given by patrols. Nerfs to the rewards of Foundry content (see Season 7). Bad design decisions regarding the level cap increase and how players got there. The massive Crafting grind. The debacle around the Upgrade system. The usually-steady power creep. The lack of transparency. And on top of it all, the fact that you expect us to grind out 7 crafting schools, 6 Reputations and contribute to Fleet Starbase projects, all on 8,000 Dilithium. The fact of the matter is, Cryptic... you've made some pretty terrible design decisions in the past, and have rarely given us a reason to trust you on these matters. We worry every time that the next update will harm us just that little more. You take, and you take, and you take. I love this game, and I love your enthusiasm for the IP... but your decisions are harming players.
If you're going to buff things, buff them now. It won't hurt to let players have a little more income for a little while. Call it an anniversary gift to us, if you like. Give us the buffs now, and nerf gradually later, if you insist on nerfing anything. After all, the biggest complaint 99% of players have is that the game feels like a massive grind. Why not just buff? Give players more? I mean, after Delta Rising, the power gap between fully-geared players and new 50s (when they can access end-game content and gear) is so vast, and takes so long to bridge, that it is effectively impossible for a casual player to cross. And all of it is done to be able to perform well enough to play content... that gives you more stuff for your grind. Where is the fun? What are we grinding for? There's no "challenging, but fun, rewarding boss" at the end. It's just grind for more grind. Every large update adds more. And that has been a development trend for years. Let me break it down:
Season 6 added the Fleet System. Huge grind. Probably the biggest in the game. Season 7 added two reputations as well as the Reputation system itself. Each new Reputation takes over a month to complete and requires several days' worth of Dilithium to get gear from, not to mention the marks you need to grind out. It also added the Fleet Embassy Holding, which is a big Fleet Gind. Legacy of Romulus added the Romulan faction (so you can grind out new level 50 alts to grind out Fleet stuff and Reputations), the Dilithium Mine Fleet Holding (another big Fleet Grind) and another Reputation (now 3). Come Season 8, we get the Dyson Reputation (now 4) and the Fleet Spire (the third Fleet Holding and thus, the fourth huge Fleet Grind). Season 9 gave us the 8472 Counter-Command Reputation (now 5 different Reputations), with its mid-Season partner (season 9.5) giving us the massive time-consuming Crafting grind. Then we get to Delta Rising, adding the Delta Alliance Reputation (now SIX Reputations), Item Upgrading and the massive Dilithium and resource sink it is, the horribly-botched Level Cap increase, Captain Specializations, so we can XP grind past the Level Cap, and Tier 5-U/Tier 6 Ships we can grind to master. And this doesn't even begin to count the Dilithium Exchange. Now we're getting this update (what, Delta point five?) with another new Captain Specialization, Secondary Deflectors added to Crafting, and a revamped BOff training mechanic which.. eh, it's not that bad, but it's still a Dilithium tax, and we have well enough of those. And this is all before the three winter events and two summer events to grind out free ships. And last year's Anniversary ship, which (quite frankly) makes me uneasy about this year's.
Simply put, there is so much grinding, that the players are not grinding. They are being ground up. The playerbase is so much like a fine powder now, that any breeze of other games or new nerfs blows them away from this game. This, from player mattjohnsonva's signature, is the three-month trend since Delta Rising. You are bleeding players slowly, and no one is recommending people join this game. Now you are removing mark rewards from content that few people play and funneling them into content you seem to want them to play. This is to your detriment. We do not need reward removals. We need reward increases. The grind has become unbearable.
I say this because I love this game, and I want it to succeed. I want to see this game become huge. And I want to see people enjoy it. So in that vein, I say this: The trend... must... end. We do not need more grind. We do not want more grind. We want to enjoy this game. Updates like this, that you insist you will remedy later, make people not want to play the game. Give us more rewards. Give us less grinding. Give us fun things to do that are worth doing. Adding Dilithium and "Elite Marks" to single-payer content is a GREAT first step. Increasing XP rewards will be a massive boon. But it all needs to happen sooner, not later. Please, Cryptic... give us a break.
Our recent updates have focused on PvE queues because we have the most data on them and because they are one of the only sources for reputation marks. As a result, they are a more closed system.
Wouldn't that get into the possible issue of sorting all of the Marks out amongst those PvE queues while left with the issue of outside sources. Wouldn't that potentially lead to the need either to redo all that work again for the PvE queues or to nerf the non-queue sources?
The Daily Bonus Marks reward is the same whether you get it from a queue or get it from one of the many sources of non-queue Marks.
Which gets into the non-queue availability of Marks and the affect that may have on queues regardless of any balancing that takes place there.
Just some examples of various things from my own personal experience in doing things here and there...say with a fresh toon that hasn't started any reps, yeah?
So I need Omega Marks to tier up my Task Force Omega Rep. I'm going to hit up the extremely easy Daily in Gamma Orionis, where I can either solo or mob play a group of NPCs that are massively below my level to grab not only the Daily reward from that but also nab my Daily Bonus. It's a wham, bam, done...more than enough to dump into the Daily Project and have some left over. So those will accumulate as I continue doing that along my way to T5 Omega. Or maybe I prefer to drop down to Defera for an easy mission. Wham, bam, done.
So I need Rom Marks to tier up my New Romulus Rep. I'm going to hit up Archer in Tau Dewa for the Tau Dewa Patrol Daily. I can finish the Tau Dewa Patrol faster than hitting up Azure Nebula Rescue, and I'll earn more Marks (and even more EC) from doing so. Hell, I don't even have to do that - cause that leads to a major surplus of Marks unless I'm interested in using a bunch of them for stuff. I can just drop down to New Romulus to do one of the Daily missions there faster, grab the Daily Bonus as well, and I'm still going to end up with that surplus just like I did with the Omega Marks.
So I need Nukara Marks to tier up my Nukara Rep. If there's a Tholian Red Alert while I'm in Tau Dewa, then I'm golden and done. The combination of the Daily and Daily Bonus...wham, bam, on my way to a surplus just like the rest. Say it doesn't, well then I can just drop down to Nukara for an easy mission like dropping down to New Romulus.
So I need Dyson Marks to tier up my Dyson Rep. Dyson Command quick 'n easy Daily along with the Daily Bonus. Maybe drop down to the Ground Battlezone to hit a node. But wham, bam, and on my way, eh?
So I need Undine Marks to tier up my Counter-Command Rep. Pop a node in the Space Battlezone while grabbing a bite to eat or watching TV...grab that with the Daily Bonus and I'm on my way, yeah?
So I need Delta Marks to tier up my Delta Rep? Pick the fastest Delta Quadrant Patrol, Daily Bonus, yadda-yadda-yadda.
Well, I think that gets the idea across...and there are probably folks that have even faster/easier ways that those - I'm not always known for being the most efficient at things, heh.
What about the Elite Marks? Well, they're hardly Elite Marks at this point, eh? Neither New Romulus nor Nukara have them, but you can mob content to get the Dyson and Undine. And though it is by no means a recommended path to get them because of the RNG, you can get Omega, Dyson, Undine, and Delta from the Daily/Hourly boxes. The RNG can definitely suck for some folks, and thus the reason for it not being a recommended path - but it's definitely a possibility. With the Daily Bonus Marks, you'll have enough for a Daily and an Hourly each day...while still accumulating a smaller surplus. Might even get something out of the boxes useful...though it's RNG, so it could just be vendortrash 24/7 for some folks.
So with all that out there...this is just looking at Marks, not the SP, Dil, EC, nor R&D, just the Marks - well, why would somebody hit up a Normal queue? One might even question why they'd hit up Advanced or Elite, eh? Sure, they might have a chance at getting stuff faster with Advanced and Elite, but they also have that chance of failure - wasted time - and general frustration.
So sure, you can look at something like Breach vs. Infected - bounce around all the different queues - try to get them all balanced around that closed system, but it's not a closed system...cause all that other stuff is there, yeah?
Why not add in some additional Dailies for the queues? Something that might make it worth the additional effort/potential frustration compared to avoiding them? Why not add in a chance for those to include the Elite Marks? A way to bump up the Normal stuff so it's somewhere in line with what can be done outside that closed system, eh?
Then work your way up from there with the Advanced and Elite.
Course, a bunch of that becomes relatively moot, imho - as you'll end up with folks trying to hit up Advanced or Elite before they're ready to do so. Which in turn, gets into the matter of making things more difficult. How much more difficult are you making it for the folks meant to be there vs. how much more difficult are you making it for the folks meant to be there because of the folks that aren't meant to be there being there, meh.
IMHO, it's a complicated mess and I don't envy you guys working on trying to address it; but I'm just not sure that compartmentalizing it as much as you are is going to work out to address the issues. Think it's a case that you guys need to widen the scope some, work out an image of that wider terrain, and then close in on what you want to do with the queues.
That being said, these changes are being discussed and planned and while the details are still being hammered out, we are willing to commit to the following updates taking place in the next couple of months:
Add ways to earn Elite Reputation Marks (i.e. Borg Neural Processors, Voth Cybernetic Implants, etc.) from single-player content.
^^^THIS RIGHT HERE!!!
This would resolve my issues and concerns pretty much...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
To be fair, they did say they are going subsystem by subsystem in the rewards dept. to help balance. It will take some time. That said, it's disappointing that nerfing old content and buffing new content seems a bit... odd. I think the metrics are broken, tbh.
IF (and this is a big if) these changes make it through i would fix most of my concerns i have. i look forward to see what comes of it and thank you guys for communicating with us and explaining your reasoning and what you plan to do
A balance of rewards over the entire game is over all something good.
A small hint: u every think about changing the reward, per kill? One borg give xyz dilithium +xyz marks +xyz experiance. wound that make balacne more easy? long misison more klill more reward...
The big problem now in not that change of a few marks here and there.
Its the generall "difficulty" (not really difficult just a damm lot of Hp at the wrong place and time)
as well as the fail contions.
Out there we have a lot of great PvE queres and they are not played because people usually fail them. And guess what u get for all you play time then.
a little handful of marks....
When people could finish the misions the would even play them more.
PUG gameplay is not possible like that, people not like to fail... very simple
So like its now as player u just can do two things:
Wait till u get enough good people freom fleet ect. --> lot of waiting time --> boring.
Go to play something people not fail before cryptic make that impossilbe for pugging too.
All the changes u did in last time will make the problem with PvE much bigger when they go live for sure.
Not holding my breath over any of it; but the uptick in communication is at least not *entirely* discouraging. I'd be happy for things getting fixed, it just seems they never quite do. Rarely do these fixes ever seem to have "for the benefit the players" as a primary concern. Shame when you think about it, because the key to making $$ is to give those playing it what they want to spend thier $$ on.
Now, here's the problem (beyond the fact that people believe that payouts aren't what they should be and that you're adjusting the wrong things in the wrong direction)... you bring the nerfs now and promise the buffs in "the next couple of months". That's a problem because, well, you say a lot of nice things are coming and then they never materialize or take a year or more to come to fruition.
See, that's my exact problem as well.
The increases come very slowly, if at all, but the decreases in rewards flow like water.
Also, I need to take into account that the OP is the same person that promised us that the changes in the XP rewards wouldn't be a nerf when they were. This is the same guy who said progression wouldn't change, just the numbers. Then when we were all hit with a MASSIVE XP nerf, never said another word.
Sorry, but when it comes to Charles Grey I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not trying to be combative, I appreciate the fact that this was communicated and posted in the forums. The gesture actually starts to change my view a little, but I'm apprehensive after the last time Mr. Grey gave us an update.
I hope this time he keeps his word, we shall see. I still don't like the idea of 'nerfs now, buffs later.' Later just never seems to come.
there are great but i do have somthing to say about when your lv high up say lv 60 i feel like a bummer that you really don't get any thing from the admerial by a repec piont that great for a free player but am a life timer till the day i die i know am not going to get it but i fell that red matter should be at some point am atable reward for busting your butt to acive so much even it it to have every thing at the max to get it some thing
pleses understand i love STO i hope to finally be able to meet you you and say thank you for giving me somthing to do and the great frisnd i made becues of this game just saying i think when you ya finally make it to be lv 60 it should be epic that's all thank you and can't wait for the year 5 later gamers
There has been a lot of confusion expressed about some of the recent updates made specifically to PvE queues. Weve been monitoring your posts and would like to respond to the requests made by many of you for more information about why these changes (and those that came before) are being made.
Our recent updates have focused on PvE queues because we have the most data on them and because they are one of the only sources for reputation marks. As a result, they are a more closed system. The intent of these updates is to have all PvE queues reward at similar rates that take into account their individual makeups including (but not limited to) time investment, risk of failure, and number of players required. As the PvE queues exist right now there are outliers queues that reward a lot more for less time and less effort than other queues (optimal choices) and queues that reward a lot less for more time and more effort than other queues (sub-optimal choices). In fixing these discrepancies we are trying to remove the feeling of making a bad choice as a player for playing what you want to play instead of feeling forced to play something based on how much it rewards you for playing it.
We understand the sentiment expressed that there are a lot of places outside of PvE queues that either feel like they are rewarding too much for too little effort or rewarding too little for too much effort. These rewards are typically of Skill Points, Expertise, or Dilithium, all of which touch many more parts of the game and therefore need extra due diligence before any changes are made. That being said, these changes are being discussed and planned and while the details are still being hammered out, we are willing to commit to the following updates taking place in the next couple of months:
Increase the Skill Point and Expertise rewards in PvE queues.
Reward more Dilithium at lower levels and throughout the game by adding Dilithium to mission rewards.
Increase all rewards for sector patrols that are taking significantly longer than their counterparts so that they all have similar rewards per play time.
Add Skill Point and Expertise rewards to all Adventure and Battle Zones.
Add ways to earn Elite Reputation Marks (i.e. Borg Neural Processors, Voth Cybernetic Implants, etc.) from single-player content.
We thank you for your continuing patience as we get these updates through the development process and out to the players.
Charles Gray
Lead Content Designer
Star Trek Online
Ty for a partial explanation of the reasoning behind your update to tribble.
By what smirk said earlier, it makes me want to think that you may be implementing a boost to players dps and abilities. So I am patient enough to wait for more patches and so forth, for more info.
The PVE ques are dead. No one does the old dilithium daily pves anymore
Personally I don't fret to much about the rewards but a failure in a pug of any mission is more of a blow to me then lower currency. You can lower all the currency you want, I don't care. But interfere with my gaming, by making me run pug stfs, that fail constantly, is an emotional blow on anyone, making our motivation even lower and UN-interested in even continuing to play the game.
I can say alot more, but I don't have all the fact,s as to your reasoning behind increasing difficulty of some stfs.
Hope these patches work out and Thank you for the heads up.
We all eagerly await MORE INFORMATION.(((Spoiler ALERT)))
Has anyone at Cryptic ever considered that players play older content more because it's actually more fun than a lot of the newer content?
It's tough to look at your own work with a critical eye... but seriously... is that question being asked honestly? I don't blame anyone if they resist that notion... but it needs to be a central question.
Too many years of too many broken and severely delayed "promises". I just can't take anything you say at face value anymore.
The game used to be fun. It is no longer. If you think after the long string of broken promises that any of us are actually going to believe you, you're even more lost than we thought.
Keep nerfing. You're just digging your own graves.
Let me know if/when you finally get around to those buffs you so eloquently promise. Maybe then I'll come back. That is, if they ever materialize.
I for one am tired of having smoke blown up my TRIBBLE. Too little, too late. Any goodwill you might have earned is gone. You say you're listening, but you're not. You say we're confused, but we're not -- we play the game, we know what's going on, we see it every time we log in. You sit behind a spreadsheet making decisions based on metrics and datamining while completely ignoring the massive volume of feedback from actual living players. It is sheer stupidity, and it will be this game's downfall.
We did not sign up to play Star Grind Online. Please stop while you're already so far behind.
I think the saddest part is that this thread will explode with the same sentiments repeated over and over and absolutely nothing will change, because you simply do not listen to us. The game you want to make isn't the game we want to play. And by the time you figure that out it will be far far too late to get us back.
I really hope you have a plan B, because plan A is going to backfire spectacularly.
If you are that's your problem that's where fleets and the DPS channels do there pve Qs
PUGs are in serious trouble just play a few if you can get the Q to pop most you cant because no one is pugging them because of your failure changes
8000 dilithium to do 20 minutes of Dyson ground mk-12 gear all other content that takes as long is less than 1440 much is 720
7500 experience from a single argala patrol 5 minures solo mk-12 gear with no failure all other content is less than 2000 and takes ( MUCH ) longer
these are the standards you have set and you need to bring the other content to this level, However you are making the other content reward ( LESS ) with increased Failure of mission chance
Argala and dyson has the standards set Nerf them or Buff the rest
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
And on top of it all, the fact that you expect us to grind out 7 crafting schools, 6 Reputations and contribute to Fleet Starbase projects, all on 8,000 Dilithium.
So much this. You like that shiny Borg impulse engine? Cough up 32500 dilithium. So that's four days at least of not being able to contribute dilithium to anything else. So forget working on any fleet holding.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
The right fix would be to give players FREEDOM by making all rewards the same for all Queues.
As long as all queues took the same time, were the same difficulty, and well...were basically the exact same thing perhaps with a different background?
So much this. You like that shiny Borg impulse engine? Cough up 32500 dilithium. So that's four days at least of not being able to contribute dilithium to anything else. So forget working on any fleet holding.
Correct...you do not have infinite resources and cannot have everything now. You have to choose how to spend your resources.
I downgraded my account to Silver over this. Maybe I'll pick up Gold status again if and when these promised improvements actually materialize but I'm not holding my breath.
I think the company is completely out of touch with the players and that monetization of content is not just the primary concern, it's the only concern.
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
Add Skill Point and Expertise rewards to all Adventure and Battle Zones.
Add ways to earn Elite Reputation Marks (i.e. Borg Neural Processors, Voth Cybernetic Implants, etc.) from single-player content.
You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical about anything promised in "the coming months", especially when it's prefaced with "willing to commit" and not "have committed". I've been playing this game for a long time now and if my pattern recognition skill is worth anything, it's telling me that long-term plans like that can and probably will change. Either it'll get pushed back in favor of higher turnover content or drop off the radar entirely. Secondary Deflectors anyone?
I want to believe you, I really do, but a realistic and fact-based assessment leaves me less than hopeful.
In fact, tell you what... I'm going to bookmark this thread and, when this year's Risa rolls around, I'm going to check those six months' patches against what's suggested in this thread and we'll see point for point what happens and doesn't. Not hearsay or potentially faulty recollection, but an actual examination of statement versus reality.
For the record, I'm not doing this to try and claim you're "lying". As I said, I know plans change. That's just how game development works in an active environment. Failure to deliver is not tantamount to lying.
As long as all queues took the same time, were the same difficulty, and well...were basically the exact same thing perhaps with a different background?.
Five years later they still don't have a formula for time and effort equals x reward.
Who cares if x takes 20 minutes and Y takes 15, choices of what to play should be on content.
The entire idea that people are picking missions based on rewards is TRIBBLE up the game.
Let people play what they want and not because this has a better reward based on time and effort.
Guess what they would also know what missions stink and need tweaking.
Correct...you do not have infinite resources and cannot have everything now. You have to choose how to spend your resources.
You do have limited resources. And you do have to choose where to spend them. You're not wrong. However, what you seem to be trying to imply is that such a fact negates the massive grinding, and it really doesn't. In order to perform at maximum, you are grinding Dilithium constantly - probably on multiple characters, just to gear ONE - to gain access to any form of endgame gear. Oh, you want an Elite Fleet Warp Core? Cough up 15,000 Dilithium on the item itself (this does not mention that you need T3 Research to get, which is extraordinarily expensive). Oh, you want the Nukara shield and deflector? Yea, that'll be 1500 Nukara Marks and another 65,000 Dilithium. Oh, you want the Romulan Impulse Engines? That'll be another 32,500 Dilithium. Oh, you want decent weapons? Yea, that'll be a few dozen million energy credits. OH, you want to UPGRADE those weapons to XIV Ultra-Rares? Yea, that'll be 10,000 Dilithium. Each. Minimum. Plus the EC cost to buy the Kits. Oh, and now you want CONSOLES? Well, that's going to be...
I could keep going. I know a guy in the top 500 DPSers. I know the gear they use. It's absurdly expensive, and you NEED to be on that level to compete at endgame. You need MILLIONS of Dilithium. TENS, maybe even HUNDREDS, of millions of EC. Marks out the wazoo. And that's just assuming you buy whatever you can off the EXCHANGE. God help you if you want to do it all yourself. Especially if you're one of those people that wants to one-man the Fleet grind (like some people tried to). The fact of the matter is, there is way too much grind. And with this... they're making it that much worse. As I said in the original post the guy quoted, the playerbase has spent so much time grinding, they have been ground up into a fine powder. We're seeing it with player login trends. That fine dust is gradually blowing away in the wind. It's a problem. And this... This does not fix it. This makes it worse. Grey said that they're going to add other stuff later... but this is the same dev team that let it get this far. Can we really trust them to make good on that?
Comments
BEAUTIFULLY written, thoughtful feedback/criticism! Tank you very much for that! MUCH better Than I could*ever* say it!
Agreed. Assurances are no longer enough. After everything that's happened, we need to be shown evidence and have it explained to us IN DETAIL if they want us to believe it's a good thing.
And action preceded by strong, solid QA and acceptance of feedback to ensure the proposed changes do NOT backfire.
I would add to this that I have multiple times since DR's release told friends of mine not to join the game at this time. And I felt BAD doing so. One of them was very much on the verge of joining until I warned him.
I WANT to be able to recommend it to other people. I don't WANT to give a "do not recommend."
Devs, since you have a lot of different metrics you watch, let me introduce you to another metric that I was used to in retail. Some stores call it the Net Promoter Score. Now, there is more that goes into measuring customer satisfaction than the NPS, and some of it is very qualitative, but it is important to point out that the two important pieces behind the NPS metric are:
--Would you definitely return to this store? (Or in STO's case we could say, would you definitely log in again and play soon?)
--Would you definitely recommend this store to someone else? (Or recommend another join the game, in this case.)
Let's say you score the NPS on a 5-point scale with 5 being Definitely Return / Definitely Recommend and 1 being Definitely Will Not Return / Recommend.
Here's the eye-opener.
Where I worked, anything less than a 5 would count as 0 or -100. ONLY a 5 got you 100 points. One bad or even just "not good enough" survey would absolutely murder your score. And this is a GOOD thing, that it was this stringent.
Why? One angry or dissatisfied customer or even a customer whose lack of enthusiasm conveys more than words could to those around them, is enough to "infect" 10 people with the same negative opinion. (I've infected 2 so far...I don't WANT to go for the full 10 but IF I am put on the spot and asked the question, I would do it again unless I see concrete action.)
But one satisfied customer...only tells a few people how happy they are.
One unhappy customer destroys all the good work building a relationship with 5 or even 10 or more happy customers. The infection spreads exponentially.
Please, even if you don't roll out a playerbase-wide customer service survey, THINK in terms of this metric. It may not be directly able to be correlated with X amount of money or X amount of time spent in the game, but if you think about how player happiness affects the answers to those two questions, and how the answers to those two questions affect player behavior towards others, and what kind of growth or destruction those actions cause...it will help.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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Also thank you for being very timely with posting this thread. This is the kind of communication we need when changes are being made. It's nice to know what's being changed, why, and the overall goal for it.
Fragmentation is a major issue I personally deal with in Star Trek Online. I want to play with my friends but they may not have the same goal-oriented mindset I do.
Maybe I want Fleet Marks to finish off a project, but they want Romulan marks since they never got around to it. So then I spend time getting Romulan marks for... well, dilithium I guess. But the payout for Fleet Marks could have been better doing something else like Fleet Alert.
Or maybe I want spec points, but they want Delta Marks. I do Bug Hunt but the payout for Skill Points and Expertise just isn't as lucrative as Argala.
Maybe I just feel like killing Undine for the sheer mindless fun of blowing ships up in the Undine battlezone, but I really need Delta Marks for my rep gear, but I don't feel like doing the Kobali Battlezone.
When I can't really play with my friends, or if I have to choose between my goals in STO and somebody else's goals in STO, I get unhappy. It is bad enough I have to choose between working for my fleet's progress and working for my personal progress. But Delta Rising just ushered in way more issues with that.
The alt unfriendliness of Delta Rising is just a symptom of the bigger problem, and yes, too many reputation currencies is also a symptom.
I think this article sums up everything nicely. It's honest. It's direct.
Some of the blatant gamewide imbalances currently are XP gain rates, being all the more obvious in all ground content that pays virtually no XP at all, or dilithium sources versus dilithium sinks.
As usual from frtoaster, some very good points.
Not to mention I'm starting to think their statistics might plain and simple be bugged and thus overall report false data.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Yes, agreed completely
Wouldn't that get into the possible issue of sorting all of the Marks out amongst those PvE queues while left with the issue of outside sources. Wouldn't that potentially lead to the need either to redo all that work again for the PvE queues or to nerf the non-queue sources?
The Daily Bonus Marks reward is the same whether you get it from a queue or get it from one of the many sources of non-queue Marks.
Which gets into the non-queue availability of Marks and the affect that may have on queues regardless of any balancing that takes place there.
Just some examples of various things from my own personal experience in doing things here and there...say with a fresh toon that hasn't started any reps, yeah?
So I need Omega Marks to tier up my Task Force Omega Rep. I'm going to hit up the extremely easy Daily in Gamma Orionis, where I can either solo or mob play a group of NPCs that are massively below my level to grab not only the Daily reward from that but also nab my Daily Bonus. It's a wham, bam, done...more than enough to dump into the Daily Project and have some left over. So those will accumulate as I continue doing that along my way to T5 Omega. Or maybe I prefer to drop down to Defera for an easy mission. Wham, bam, done.
So I need Rom Marks to tier up my New Romulus Rep. I'm going to hit up Archer in Tau Dewa for the Tau Dewa Patrol Daily. I can finish the Tau Dewa Patrol faster than hitting up Azure Nebula Rescue, and I'll earn more Marks (and even more EC) from doing so. Hell, I don't even have to do that - cause that leads to a major surplus of Marks unless I'm interested in using a bunch of them for stuff. I can just drop down to New Romulus to do one of the Daily missions there faster, grab the Daily Bonus as well, and I'm still going to end up with that surplus just like I did with the Omega Marks.
So I need Nukara Marks to tier up my Nukara Rep. If there's a Tholian Red Alert while I'm in Tau Dewa, then I'm golden and done. The combination of the Daily and Daily Bonus...wham, bam, on my way to a surplus just like the rest. Say it doesn't, well then I can just drop down to Nukara for an easy mission like dropping down to New Romulus.
So I need Dyson Marks to tier up my Dyson Rep. Dyson Command quick 'n easy Daily along with the Daily Bonus. Maybe drop down to the Ground Battlezone to hit a node. But wham, bam, and on my way, eh?
So I need Undine Marks to tier up my Counter-Command Rep. Pop a node in the Space Battlezone while grabbing a bite to eat or watching TV...grab that with the Daily Bonus and I'm on my way, yeah?
So I need Delta Marks to tier up my Delta Rep? Pick the fastest Delta Quadrant Patrol, Daily Bonus, yadda-yadda-yadda.
Well, I think that gets the idea across...and there are probably folks that have even faster/easier ways that those - I'm not always known for being the most efficient at things, heh.
What about the Elite Marks? Well, they're hardly Elite Marks at this point, eh? Neither New Romulus nor Nukara have them, but you can mob content to get the Dyson and Undine. And though it is by no means a recommended path to get them because of the RNG, you can get Omega, Dyson, Undine, and Delta from the Daily/Hourly boxes. The RNG can definitely suck for some folks, and thus the reason for it not being a recommended path - but it's definitely a possibility. With the Daily Bonus Marks, you'll have enough for a Daily and an Hourly each day...while still accumulating a smaller surplus. Might even get something out of the boxes useful...though it's RNG, so it could just be vendortrash 24/7 for some folks.
So with all that out there...this is just looking at Marks, not the SP, Dil, EC, nor R&D, just the Marks - well, why would somebody hit up a Normal queue? One might even question why they'd hit up Advanced or Elite, eh? Sure, they might have a chance at getting stuff faster with Advanced and Elite, but they also have that chance of failure - wasted time - and general frustration.
So sure, you can look at something like Breach vs. Infected - bounce around all the different queues - try to get them all balanced around that closed system, but it's not a closed system...cause all that other stuff is there, yeah?
Why not add in some additional Dailies for the queues? Something that might make it worth the additional effort/potential frustration compared to avoiding them? Why not add in a chance for those to include the Elite Marks? A way to bump up the Normal stuff so it's somewhere in line with what can be done outside that closed system, eh?
Then work your way up from there with the Advanced and Elite.
Course, a bunch of that becomes relatively moot, imho - as you'll end up with folks trying to hit up Advanced or Elite before they're ready to do so. Which in turn, gets into the matter of making things more difficult. How much more difficult are you making it for the folks meant to be there vs. how much more difficult are you making it for the folks meant to be there because of the folks that aren't meant to be there being there, meh.
IMHO, it's a complicated mess and I don't envy you guys working on trying to address it; but I'm just not sure that compartmentalizing it as much as you are is going to work out to address the issues. Think it's a case that you guys need to widen the scope some, work out an image of that wider terrain, and then close in on what you want to do with the queues.
I don't know, just a random thought...
^^^THIS RIGHT HERE!!!
This would resolve my issues and concerns pretty much...
CM
A small hint: u every think about changing the reward, per kill? One borg give xyz dilithium +xyz marks +xyz experiance. wound that make balacne more easy? long misison more klill more reward...
The big problem now in not that change of a few marks here and there.
Its the generall "difficulty" (not really difficult just a damm lot of Hp at the wrong place and time)
as well as the fail contions.
Out there we have a lot of great PvE queres and they are not played because people usually fail them. And guess what u get for all you play time then.
a little handful of marks....
When people could finish the misions the would even play them more.
PUG gameplay is not possible like that, people not like to fail... very simple
So like its now as player u just can do two things:
Wait till u get enough good people freom fleet ect. --> lot of waiting time --> boring.
Go to play something people not fail before cryptic make that impossilbe for pugging too.
All the changes u did in last time will make the problem with PvE much bigger when they go live for sure.
See, that's my exact problem as well.
The increases come very slowly, if at all, but the decreases in rewards flow like water.
Also, I need to take into account that the OP is the same person that promised us that the changes in the XP rewards wouldn't be a nerf when they were. This is the same guy who said progression wouldn't change, just the numbers. Then when we were all hit with a MASSIVE XP nerf, never said another word.
Sorry, but when it comes to Charles Grey I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not trying to be combative, I appreciate the fact that this was communicated and posted in the forums. The gesture actually starts to change my view a little, but I'm apprehensive after the last time Mr. Grey gave us an update.
I hope this time he keeps his word, we shall see. I still don't like the idea of 'nerfs now, buffs later.' Later just never seems to come.
pleses understand i love STO i hope to finally be able to meet you you and say thank you for giving me somthing to do and the great frisnd i made becues of this game just saying i think when you ya finally make it to be lv 60 it should be epic that's all thank you and can't wait for the year 5 later gamers
Ty for a partial explanation of the reasoning behind your update to tribble.
By what smirk said earlier, it makes me want to think that you may be implementing a boost to players dps and abilities. So I am patient enough to wait for more patches and so forth, for more info.
The PVE ques are dead. No one does the old dilithium daily pves anymore
Personally I don't fret to much about the rewards but a failure in a pug of any mission is more of a blow to me then lower currency. You can lower all the currency you want, I don't care. But interfere with my gaming, by making me run pug stfs, that fail constantly, is an emotional blow on anyone, making our motivation even lower and UN-interested in even continuing to play the game.
I can say alot more, but I don't have all the fact,s as to your reasoning behind increasing difficulty of some stfs.
Hope these patches work out and Thank you for the heads up.
We all eagerly await MORE INFORMATION.(((Spoiler ALERT)))
Have a good weekend STO
It's tough to look at your own work with a critical eye... but seriously... is that question being asked honestly? I don't blame anyone if they resist that notion... but it needs to be a central question.
Put the metrics down... ask the harder questions.
Too many years of too many broken and severely delayed "promises". I just can't take anything you say at face value anymore.
The game used to be fun. It is no longer. If you think after the long string of broken promises that any of us are actually going to believe you, you're even more lost than we thought.
Keep nerfing. You're just digging your own graves.
Let me know if/when you finally get around to those buffs you so eloquently promise. Maybe then I'll come back. That is, if they ever materialize.
I for one am tired of having smoke blown up my TRIBBLE. Too little, too late. Any goodwill you might have earned is gone. You say you're listening, but you're not. You say we're confused, but we're not -- we play the game, we know what's going on, we see it every time we log in. You sit behind a spreadsheet making decisions based on metrics and datamining while completely ignoring the massive volume of feedback from actual living players. It is sheer stupidity, and it will be this game's downfall.
We did not sign up to play Star Grind Online. Please stop while you're already so far behind.
I think the saddest part is that this thread will explode with the same sentiments repeated over and over and absolutely nothing will change, because you simply do not listen to us. The game you want to make isn't the game we want to play. And by the time you figure that out it will be far far too late to get us back.
I really hope you have a plan B, because plan A is going to backfire spectacularly.
Are you using private matchs ?
If you are that's your problem that's where fleets and the DPS channels do there pve Qs
PUGs are in serious trouble just play a few if you can get the Q to pop most you cant because no one is pugging them because of your failure changes
8000 dilithium to do 20 minutes of Dyson ground mk-12 gear all other content that takes as long is less than 1440 much is 720
7500 experience from a single argala patrol 5 minures solo mk-12 gear with no failure all other content is less than 2000 and takes ( MUCH ) longer
these are the standards you have set and you need to bring the other content to this level, However you are making the other content reward ( LESS ) with increased Failure of mission chance
Argala and dyson has the standards set Nerf them or Buff the rest
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
So much this. You like that shiny Borg impulse engine? Cough up 32500 dilithium. So that's four days at least of not being able to contribute dilithium to anything else. So forget working on any fleet holding.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
As long as all queues took the same time, were the same difficulty, and well...were basically the exact same thing perhaps with a different background?
Correct...you do not have infinite resources and cannot have everything now. You have to choose how to spend your resources.
I think the company is completely out of touch with the players and that monetization of content is not just the primary concern, it's the only concern.
Add ways to earn Elite Reputation Marks (i.e. Borg Neural Processors, Voth Cybernetic Implants, etc.) from single-player content.
yay!
I want to believe you, I really do, but a realistic and fact-based assessment leaves me less than hopeful.
In fact, tell you what... I'm going to bookmark this thread and, when this year's Risa rolls around, I'm going to check those six months' patches against what's suggested in this thread and we'll see point for point what happens and doesn't. Not hearsay or potentially faulty recollection, but an actual examination of statement versus reality.
For the record, I'm not doing this to try and claim you're "lying". As I said, I know plans change. That's just how game development works in an active environment. Failure to deliver is not tantamount to lying.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Five years later they still don't have a formula for time and effort equals x reward.
Who cares if x takes 20 minutes and Y takes 15, choices of what to play should be on content.
The entire idea that people are picking missions based on rewards is TRIBBLE up the game.
Let people play what they want and not because this has a better reward based on time and effort.
Guess what they would also know what missions stink and need tweaking.
You do have limited resources. And you do have to choose where to spend them. You're not wrong. However, what you seem to be trying to imply is that such a fact negates the massive grinding, and it really doesn't. In order to perform at maximum, you are grinding Dilithium constantly - probably on multiple characters, just to gear ONE - to gain access to any form of endgame gear. Oh, you want an Elite Fleet Warp Core? Cough up 15,000 Dilithium on the item itself (this does not mention that you need T3 Research to get, which is extraordinarily expensive). Oh, you want the Nukara shield and deflector? Yea, that'll be 1500 Nukara Marks and another 65,000 Dilithium. Oh, you want the Romulan Impulse Engines? That'll be another 32,500 Dilithium. Oh, you want decent weapons? Yea, that'll be a few dozen million energy credits. OH, you want to UPGRADE those weapons to XIV Ultra-Rares? Yea, that'll be 10,000 Dilithium. Each. Minimum. Plus the EC cost to buy the Kits. Oh, and now you want CONSOLES? Well, that's going to be...
I could keep going. I know a guy in the top 500 DPSers. I know the gear they use. It's absurdly expensive, and you NEED to be on that level to compete at endgame. You need MILLIONS of Dilithium. TENS, maybe even HUNDREDS, of millions of EC. Marks out the wazoo. And that's just assuming you buy whatever you can off the EXCHANGE. God help you if you want to do it all yourself. Especially if you're one of those people that wants to one-man the Fleet grind (like some people tried to). The fact of the matter is, there is way too much grind. And with this... they're making it that much worse. As I said in the original post the guy quoted, the playerbase has spent so much time grinding, they have been ground up into a fine powder. We're seeing it with player login trends. That fine dust is gradually blowing away in the wind. It's a problem. And this... This does not fix it. This makes it worse. Grey said that they're going to add other stuff later... but this is the same dev team that let it get this far. Can we really trust them to make good on that?