Getting by just fine without them, thank you very much.
Finally a breath of fresh air for powers, but you don't care. Fine. I do. I like it. And I like that there will be more, and the expansion created finally the mechanics to expand on the BO powers.
All they did was add a bunch of RNG mechanics to sell more zen, slap a few measly story missions and patrols down, and called it an expansion.
What people never consider is that the "sell more Zen" part exists so that the missions can be made. Also, once again, you end up insulting the developers, calling the missions they worked on "measly" as if they sucked and weren't worth playing.
What people don't realize that the end of the grind they celebrate at some point is also the point where an MMO will inevitably lose sales or subscriptions - people slowly stop playing, because they achieved their game goals and they have no reason to pay for anything, because they got everything. They ask for more content - but don't realize that there are cost to making that content. Or if they realize that there are cost, they believe the cost aren't as high to justify whatever is asked for them.
Meanwhile, Cryptic however has refused to force us pay for content. They promised once that it would always be free, and they kept to that promise. There is no pay gate to play a Delta Rising missions or Patrols. You just need that level, and you can get that level without spending money* - you just need to spend time playing the game.
*) in fact, spending money seems to be useless for getting beyond this time gate....
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
What people never consider is that the "sell more Zen" part exists so that the missions can be made. Also, once again,
And yet despite all the "sell more Zen" stuff added they still don't really add more actual content to the game. And if they do add something unless Taco is doing it its likely rushed, bugged, and forgotten about the moment it goes live, and then broken the first update they make.
you end up insulting the developers, calling the missions they worked on "measly" as if they sucked and weren't worth playing.
No I'm pointing out that all they did was add a few actual story missions and pad the rest out with patrols pretty much only adding enough content to get half way to 60 and then stretched it out with arbitrary minimal levels necessary to unlock it to force people to play longer.
What people don't realize that the end of the grind they celebrate at some point is also the point where an MMO will inevitably lose sales or subscriptions - people slowly stop playing, because they achieved their game goals and they have no reason to pay for anything,
Then add stuff to do because it feels like all the new grind is doing is driving people away from doing things probably becuase its a grind to play roulette and maybe get something.
because they got everything. They ask for more content - but don't realize that there are cost to making that content. Or if they realize that there are cost, they believe the cost aren't as high to justify whatever is asked for them.
So instead they nickel and dime you to death on the RNG mechanic.
Meanwhile, Cryptic however has refused to content. They promised once that it would always be free, and they kept to that promise. There is no pay gate to play a Delta Rising missions or Patrols. You just need that level, and you can get that level without spending money* - you just need to spend time playing the game.
Probably becuase they get more money off of the RNG mechanic since most people probably don't realize just how much stuff their blowing on a random chance.
And yet despite all the "sell more Zen" stuff added they still don't really add more actual content to the game. And if they do add something unless Taco is doing it its likely rushed, bugged, and forgotten about the moment it goes live, and then broken the first update they make.
It pays for the content they actually make - like the Dalta Rising missions, like the missions added with Tuvoks relating the Dyson Sphere and all that.
No I'm pointing out that all they did was add a few actual story missions and pad the rest out with patrols pretty much only adding enough content to get half way to 60 and then stretched it out with arbitrary minimal levels necessary to unlock it to force people to play longer.
And I am pointing out this exists so they can earn the money needed to run the game, including building the new content.
So instead they nickel and dime you to death on the RNG mechanic.
Getting skill points doesn't involve RNG. Upgrading gear to Mark XIV only involve RNG in as it can make it go faster than the basic speed. The only RNG there is whether you improve rarity of your item.
Probably becuase they get more money off of the RNG mechanic since most people probably don't realize just how much stuff their blowing on a random chance.
In the end, if you want to complain about RNG; I would complain about lockboxes. Those really suck and I wish all MMOs would do away with them and find other revenue streams. But seems they haven't so far.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The unfortunate fact is that MMOs do this. They have done it for a long time.
But if you're still feel joy playing a game - it doesn't matter. But if you keep playing but it feels like work or you spend too much money on them - you need to stop, or you have a problem. You can try to argue on the forums about it, but it's kinda pointless - MMOs can only function with grind, because they need a large player base that either pays for a subscription or that buys game currency.
But IMO it isn't all bad. When I played through Mass Effect 3 or GTA IV, I was done. There wasn't really much to do afterward. Sure I could replay, but for what. Event though I liked the mechanics and all, there wasn't really a reason to go back. In a game like STO, I have some objective like finishing a reputation or unlocking a new specialization ability and I can keep enjoying the game mechanics I loved.
I've seen my father playing Solitaire on his notebook for hours - he seems to enjoy it - but there aren't even any footballs or goals in it (my father is a soccer fan) nor armed space ships that blow each other up (that's more my thing) or any nude women (that would be most heterosexual male's thing). He just likes that game, and he likes playing it over and over again - even though there isn't even a special progress bar going for him. He'll never unlock a new solitair card or a new game mode or whatever.
EDIT:
But don't misunderstand - I am not saying that specializations couldn't or shouldn't go a bit faster or that upgrades couldn't or shouldn't be a bit cheaper - especially once we get in the alt territory. But there is no need to exaggerate the nature of the issue and make it personal, insult each other, threaten, feel victimized or whatever.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I doubt you'll find more than 10 rude comments in there ... and probably only if you're really stretching, including stuff like "Imho Rewards are TRIBBLE" ... if this is a hate & troll fest, I'd like to know what Feedback is ...
And that's a classic example of the problem. They wanted to hear X (i.e. "just a small number of queues are having problems"), but the reality we were telling them was Y ("they're all having problems"). Just like happened with the doff UI and a zillion other things in the past season and a half. And they apparently didn't want to hear that.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
And that's a classic example of the problem. They wanted to hear X (i.e. "just a small number of queues are having problems"), but the reality we were telling them was Y ("they're all having problems"). Just like happened with the doff UI and a zillion other things in the past season and a half. And they apparently didn't want to hear that.
Well tbh I don't understand the whole "Gutter" - Thing ... sure lot of the Feedback is pretty negative ... sure every now and then there is one guy who doesn't know how to behave himself (like that guy complaing about Club 47 ... but still 37 pages without "Gutter") ... but some people make it sound like every 2nd Comment is an personal insult to the DEVs ....
I don't get it ... either I'm not that sensitive, or the MOD's have Superpowers deleting all that "Gutter-Talk", right before I can see it ... seems to me, some people just don't want to see all that negative Feedback, going on some smear-campaign ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Well tbh I don't understand the whole "Gutter" - Thing ... sure lot of the Feedback is pretty negative ... sure every now and then there is one guy who doesn't know how to behave himself (like that guy complaing about Club 47 ... but still 37 pages without "Gutter") ... but some people make it sound like every 2nd Comment is an personal insult to the DEVs ....
I don't get it ... either I'm not that sensitive, or the MOD's have Superpowers deleting all that "Gutter-Talk" right before I can see it ... seems to me, some people just don't want to see all that negative Feedback, going on some smear-campaign ...
This is my attitude as well. I'm sure there's extra stress we're not privy too even at a company advertised as having a great "work/life" balance. And I'm sure Cryptic does. By industry standards. And that the gaming industry probably beats running a hedge fund in terms of cultural stress.
I know some of these folks darned near broke their health to get DR on schedule. It's actually extremely evident from their Twitter accounts.
And while I obviously can't know without going through someone's books? A deadline like that is dumb. It's artificial. It should have been pushed back from my perspective and a lot of the stress and sacrifice devs put into DR should have been lower. It just should have been.
Next, when people gripe about DR, they're not griping about every last thing the developers sweated over. They're griping about monetization and grind. And not even the bulk of the work that went onto that, not even the hours that may have been spent hunched over spreadsheets entering values in or debating multipliers, or reconciling the code base for patch. They're griping about the philosophy behind the monetization design.
Imagine Delta Rising is a car.
The griping isn't about the car. It isn't about the tires or even the steering wheel. It's about the way the folks in the driver's seat are using the steering wheel.
When developers get disillusioned or upset when people complain about DR, I think they must think we're complaining about the car. The forums have been generally favorable about the car though. It's the way the car is being driven that has people upset.
It isn't Thomas' icons or Nick's maps. It isn't the quality of the scripting or the patch notes or a commentary of the labor that went into the expansion. It's squarely about the direction.
A game is a taxi cab.
Delta Rising could be the Rolls Royce of taxi cabs, an elegant ride, a masterpiece of precision engineering.
But someone at Cryptic or PWE is behind the wheel. And you're driving it on the beach. And I think you just drove it through a carnival, knocking over tents, with people running out of the way. And what's that up ahead? This isn't the ride I signed up for. Hit the brakes, please! All I wanted was a smooth, scenic ride across town. Just take me where I asked to go! Gah.
This ride isn't fun.
What's that? You were on the manufacturing team that built the car? No. Really. The car isn't the problem. It's a lovely car. I'm not insulting the car. You're just not taking me to the address I gave you when I got in the car!
Hey, hey, watch out for that sign post. What? I'm not threatening doom. I didn't think you were going to wreck the car. I just wish you'd watch out for traffic and stop hitting signs. No. No. The car is very well engineered. I bet you could knock over thousands of stop signs and never scratch the car. That isn't the point. The point is that I didn't think you'd take me for a ride on the sidewalk and, what's that? Why are we driving through the woods? Let me out of the taxi cab. No. Not here. Just take me to the address I gave you when I got in the car.
Taco I would normally agree with you if not for what happened to me last week when I tried to have a civil discussion and point out a certain flaw in the game that is actually a game stopper for PVPer this is the article I'm talking about http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=21589451#post21589451 I was straight to the point I flamed no one... Because I actually did not think that the ideas that were conveyed in another post were being relayed correctly hence this would appear if you read the post you will see there are valid points here there's nothing wrong with what I wrote if you go by the adage that the developers say that they don't want anything in the game that one shot kill someone or perma disables them then how is this not a bug?? Do you know what I got I got a ban and I got my thread closed so you tell me how I'm supposed to feel about that? Remember the point here is you and developers have said you don't want something that gives a one shot kill or perma disables something we have given you proof we've given you numbers and what we get working as intended close the thread and ban.......... really??? OH and its still BROKEN
Don't worry, you're not the first person this has happened to and you probably won't be the last. Truth is the veteran players of this game know the way the game works extremely well, that includes counters and the maths behind the fancy stuff. It's the veteran players that find out when stuff is broken, and when we point out these things we either seem to get ignored or on the unfortunate occasions what happened to you.
They shouldn't be giving people forum bans just because we can find faults.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
They shouldn't be giving people forum bans just because we can find faults.
They don't. Only people who violate TOS, and then after multiple infractions.
The mods are generally fair, and I can't say that after three years of posting here that they have acted capriciously or with evil intent.
The owners of this forum have the right to close down threads that do nothing to help the process of making the game better. Some threads have a history with this, and if you take the time to look at the some of the mods posts, you'll find valid reasons for each closing.
Tacos responses to what he saw as hurtful - the meme sigs - are valid. But his boss made comments that have no basis in fact, and then assumed that we'd go along with it. The internet is a funny thing, when you say things that are not true, they have a way of biting you in the tuchus.
As for the presumption of freedom of speech - yadda yadda - [insert your beef here] - this forum is a ancillary benefit of a product. Which you don't pay for, and ultimately post here at thier discretion.
My suggestion is this - play within their guidelines. There is plenty of room there to explain, complain, and ultimately play the damned game.
Having said that - there are plenty of off-site avenues to vent in. I would say that constructive venting, with suggestions on how to improve the player experience and/or the game itself are always encouraged and appreciated.
Don't worry, you're not the first person this has happened to and you probably won't be the last. Truth is the veteran players of this game know the way the game works extremely well, that includes counters and the maths behind the fancy stuff. It's the veteran players that find out when stuff is broken, and when we point out these things we either seem to get ignored or on the unfortunate occasions what happened to you.
They shouldn't be giving people forum bans just because we can find faults.
wildweasal made 3 different threads on that, then after they were deleted he made more...
Spam isn't feedback. It's just a great way to get people to not listen.
This is my attitude as well. I'm sure there's extra stress we're not privy too even at a company advertised as having a great "work/life" balance. And I'm sure Cryptic does. By industry standards. And that the gaming industry probably beats running a hedge fund in terms of cultural stress.
I know some of these folks darned near broke their health to get DR on schedule. It's actually extremely evident from their Twitter accounts.
And while I obviously can't know without going through someone's books? A deadline like that is dumb. It's artificial. It should have been pushed back from my perspective and a lot of the stress and sacrifice devs put into DR should have been lower. It just should have been.
Next, when people gripe about DR, they're not griping about every last thing the developers sweated over. They're griping about monetization and grind. And not even the bulk of the work that went onto that, not even the hours that may have been spent hunched over spreadsheets entering values in or debating multipliers, or reconciling the code base for patch. They're griping about the philosophy behind the monetization design.
Imagine Delta Rising is a car.
The griping isn't about the car. It isn't about the tires or even the steering wheel. It's about the way the folks in the driver's seat are using the steering wheel.
When developers get disillusioned or upset when people complain about DR, I think they must think we're complaining about the car. The forums have been generally favorable about the car though. It's the way the car is being driven that has people upset.
It isn't Thomas' icons or Nick's maps. It isn't the quality of the scripting or the patch notes or a commentary of the labor that went into the expansion. It's squarely about the direction.
A game is a taxi cab.
Delta Rising could be the Rolls Royce of taxi cabs, an elegant ride, a masterpiece of precision engineering.
But someone at Cryptic or PWE is behind the wheel. And you're driving it on the beach. And I think you just drove it through a carnival, knocking over tents, with people running out of the way. And what's that up ahead? This isn't the ride I signed up for. Hit the brakes, please! All I wanted was a smooth, scenic ride across town. Just take me where I asked to go! Gah.
This ride isn't fun.
What's that? You were on the manufacturing team that built the car? No. Really. The car isn't the problem. It's a lovely car. I'm not insulting the car. You're just not taking me to the address I gave you when I got in the car!
Hey, hey, watch out for that sign post. What? I'm not threatening doom. I didn't think you were going to wreck the car. I just wish you'd watch out for traffic and stop hitting signs. No. No. The car is very well engineered. I bet you could knock over thousands of stop signs and never scratch the car. That isn't the point. The point is that I didn't think you'd take me for a ride on the sidewalk and, what's that? Why are we driving through the woods? Let me out of the taxi cab. No. Not here. Just take me to the address I gave you when I got in the car.
Your signature is unreadable. Try being a legible **** next time.
It shouldn't have to be said that 800 patrol missions, nerfed grinding, nerfed dil, nerfed marks, nerfed EC, and everything else they nerfed the last 2 years, do not contribute to happy players.
"Oh well, but didn't get any feedback about it!!!1"
No. 1 bs story in the history of gaming. You really saying that after the forums have been on fire for half a year, you call that NO feedback?
So I guess yeah the stress level has to be quite high over there when you can't come up with a better story than that.
However even trying to do any story at all, the attempt itself, shows bs.
Like I said, none of the added grinding that is supposed to sit in for content, getting a negative response can be a surprise to anyone.
Way I see it, just like players try to get away from their design - least resistance, developers apply the same strategy with players and the forums.
It's simply easier to write off the forum than to fix the game, right?
Star Trek: Ongrind. It points directly to the one issue of contention. The fact that the game has turned into one bloody boring grindfest. It's rather clever, if you ask me... And I know you didn't, so I'm just saying it anyway...
I'm being totally honest here....i don't understand how someone can put up a 13 paragraph post about how much the game sucks, with 6 thousand posts under their belt, and still play the game.
JUST QUIT! If at this point your complaining hasn't fixed anything why continue with the complaining?
Fourth, players do not want their purchases to lose value. Once the tier 5 and fleet ships became underpowered, due to the introduction of level 60, players lost a whole lot of money and progress. Spending $25-$30 on an item is very expensive. Upon making the $25-$30 purchases under powered, as a result of adding level 60, the strings of trust between many players and Cryptic had been severed. Also, progressing from level 50 to 60 takes way-way too long. Upon getting one avatar to level 58, I ended up walking away from "Star Trek: Online".
Fifth, players are willing to pay into the system, for as long as they are getting something meaningful. If all they are getting is 40 gold coins, people will most likely play an entirely different game. Nerfing or thinning out the reward system (or, stretching the goal line) has scared many pc-players away.
Sixth, the daily calendar events are gone. When there were scheduled daily events, the game felt like a daily 'Star Trek' episode. Players were signing in at certain time periods, so they can work on events together. "Star Trek: Online" felt 'live'.
I think a lot of your points are valid, individually many of them are non-issues, when you combine a certain few together into a string, it shows the very massive design problem that is present.
Nobody likes their stuff to become worthless, any level cap increase in any game has people rage quit based on this alone. STO brewed their own perfect storm, by dealing with the devil and selling power, monetizing every aspect of the game, a player can now figure out just how much their ship and gear is worth. Anyone want to calculate? Its a lot of money to lose.
You can also calculate how much that T6 ship and gear is going to cost, and its much higher. Most players are going to get a shock, step back and think, but I have a lot of fun playing the game, and continue on. After DR, are we having a lot of fun playing the game?
A level cap increase without nearly enough content to get there.
In addition, there isn't any suitable content in the game that players can turn to (patrols do not count as suitable) to close that xp gap.
The content that does exist, isn't rewarding suitable XP, and the changes to Advanced/Elite was a major TRIBBLE up; by just adjusting numbers instead of making a real difficulty increase it added more grind and boring gameplay.
The power creep after LoR turned into a power sprint, and with DR, its managed to board a jet and take off. Its invalidated any balance, its made a ship as strong as a fleet, and it destroyed the whole reason for a level cap increase, new gear; not to mention putting any challenge in content.
So when the level cap increase came, and you look at whats happened, do you shrug it off and have fun, or do you realize that its just not fun anymore and not worth the cost?
Also I can't agree more with the hourly events, and the population in game seemed to agree with them too, because its not been the same since.
DR also broke the 5 years old premise of the game.
Everything was casual, not least the way in which you could fly any ship and career you wanted using whatever.
Here comes DR exclusively built on dps.
Makes no sense to me at ALL. As much as I am not the casual gamer or a fan of lore or whatever, the premise of the game has been to allow room for those people going on half a decade.
Now they want us buying dps for millions of dil...
I don't think they have an overall concept of their game or long term visions.
It's pretty much week by week trying to release whatever rushed out crafting with missing mods you have time for, then you can post-rationalize as much as you have time for after.
I mean sure the nerfing of everything, time gating and dil sinks have been consistent true enough.
While you are being totally honest, can you totally honestly tell me that this game is actually reaching for the potential it has as THE ONLY Star Trek MMO on the market?
When you think of a Star Trek experience, is what this game offers what comes to mind, or is what comes to mind something more.
Are you honestly happy with the game as it is?
Well?
Need to be careful here.
From what I get, most of the ignorant are happy with the game. These are people that just shoot at things and never think beyond 5-10 seconds of what they can do to improve. As a result, they have poor defense and no offense, and content is fun and challenging.
Its only after you learn how broken everything is, how you can multiple and multiple your damage over and over again. How you can layer defenses so no ships can hurt even in advanced/elite. Then when you realize you don't need a defense, you can remove that and multiple your damage again, and find out how truly boring and unhappy you are.
as posted by sirsitsalot
When you think of a Star Trek experience, is what this game offers what comes to mind, or is what comes to mind something more.
Are you honestly happy with the game as it is?
Well?
There is always room for improvement and there are things in this game I would like to see done differently. I have a presence on the forums and have voiced my opinions about the things I don't agree with I don't do it superlatively and here is where I feel there is a problem. The volume of posts about petty tripe buries everything else.
In order to disseminate information pertinent to valid criticisms of the game and it's state you would require significant manpower. While titles can point toward useful information how frequently are posts derailed by random negativity? Why would anyone choose to sift through the metaphorical sewer? Without considerable examination the forums can be painted in broad strokes as stupid. You can't fix stupid.
The question you posed struck me as a variation on the fan defense. Enjoying something like Star Trek isn't justification to behave discourteously or to be ungrateful because someone doesn't share your particular vision of a TV series. Thankfully some people here direct their appreciation and obsession toward the state of this game. If their attentions were directed at other people they would be identified as deviants and live under the conditions of a restraining order. Most stalkers think they genuinely love someone too.
I wonder how the players would feel if all the Devs had signatures poking fun at them
Would podcast audio suffice? Just listen to ANY podcast where Al Rivera (aka Captain Gekko) is interviewed, and I can guarantee hell say something poking fun at or disparaging to the STO playerbse. (and yes, I'm serious.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
There's been some things said by gecko and some things done (tau dewa) which made no sense and the resulting changes did present an appearance that people were being herded to the Delta Quadrant. Can't say for sure as we aren't part of that process.
All in all Delta Rising was a good expansion, story content wise. A lot of grind, a prior back up of power creep via reputation (a good change) is totally undone by specialization nonsense and frankly that's what's killing the game for me. Primarily before DR, all I did was pvp with an occasional pve to go through a reputation. That was quick and got me back into pvp very quickly. Now there is such an astronomical difference and you're either fully through specialization or you're not.
I have no desire to grind for specialization that way and while I've had no problem dealing with any pve, the difference really manifests itself in pvp. I just can't be bothered with that tedious grind to remain competitive and even more is coming. I've played daily for quite awhile but I find my play time dropping and dropping because of dead pvp/pve queues. It's too bad as I've thoroughly enjoyed this game for the last 4 years.
These things mentioned by others and myself here need to be addressed or I can see myself throwing my hands up.
On a side note, I've found devs quite responsive. Don't always respond but if it's a legit issue I've generally always gotten a response.
wildweasal made 3 different threads on that, then after they were deleted he made more...
Spam isn't feedback. It's just a great way to get people to not listen.
First I made 2 not three also they were deleted they were closed there were close because one dev answered the first post and said oh this is working as intended which totally flies in the face of what they espouse they want and PVP which is no one-shot kills and no permanent disables so therefore we all figured maybe we didn't explain it right which why in the second post it was broken down and painful minute detail I wonder did you even read the link??? See this is what I'm talking about don't muddy the situation up with peripheral bullcrap "he make two separate posts" that was the not point the point is is that something is horribly broken we pointed out why it was broken we show them why it was broken they choose to still ignore us you can't have it both ways you can't say this is what you want in our (meaning devs) game and then we say okay based on what you're saying this appears to be broken you might want to look at that and then being told to sod off and as far as making a duplicate post this entire form is a damn mess if you look in the bug reports there are easily multiple multiple multiple upon multiple post about the same thing here I'll even help you out a little bit you know that thing about people not getting their discount to buy the Breen ship? Just on that alone how many duplicate posts were there on that??? With the hot mess that this form is and has become I don't hear that TRIBBLE about duplicate post.. you don't want to duplicate post ?? fix it... Then problem solved.... One other thing in passing as to whether this form is a gutter or not? I will say I find it odd that people are nicer to the devs on Reddit than they are in their own forms and believe me the people on Reddit have torches and pitchforks so best I sent a whole bunch against but food for thought
wildweasal made 3 different threads on that, then after they were deleted he made more...
Spam isn't feedback. It's just a great way to get people to not listen.
In fairness we're also not allowed to bump bug reports that haven't been acknowledged, heck I can think of at least 10 bugs that haven't been acknowledged, was I supposed to go make threads on each one and keep bumping them? In all honesty the forum rules are a wall to reporting bugs when they aren't picked up on well enough, and the guy does have a point, because some powers do fly in the face of what the devs have said should be the case in a PvP or a PvE setting.
They don't. Only people who violate TOS, and then after multiple infractions.
The mods are generally fair, and I can't say that after three years of posting here that they have acted capriciously or with evil intent.
The owners of this forum have the right to close down threads that do nothing to help the process of making the game better. Some threads have a history with this, and if you take the time to look at the some of the mods posts, you'll find valid reasons for each closing.
Tacos responses to what he saw as hurtful - the meme sigs - are valid. But his boss made comments that have no basis in fact, and then assumed that we'd go along with it. The internet is a funny thing, when you say things that are not true, they have a way of biting you in the tuchus.
As for the presumption of freedom of speech - yadda yadda - [insert your beef here] - this forum is a ancillary benefit of a product. Which you don't pay for, and ultimately post here at thier discretion.
My suggestion is this - play within their guidelines. There is plenty of room there to explain, complain, and ultimately play the damned game.
Having said that - there are plenty of off-site avenues to vent in. I would say that constructive venting, with suggestions on how to improve the player experience and/or the game itself are always encouraged and appreciated.
I know people who have been banned before just for pointing out the inherent flaw with the logic the devs were using, and I can promise you now they weren't spamming the forums or making any TOS violations, they were just trying to make clear the logic was flawed.
I've seen a lot of bad moderating while I've been here, over a longer period of time. Granted a lot of the moderating is done well, however the times I've seen it done very poorly has only served to cause a number of issues. TOS rules shouldn't be used as a means of silencing people, and while I may be wrong in this case, it doesn't mean the ones I know about are any less permissible.
I do think this is also a symptom of lack of communication though, as many things people get irate about on these forums are things that, really, wouldn't be happening in the first place if we had better communication from the devs. Just look how much calmer most threads get when a dev acknowledges or even clarifies an issue, and sure they're not always agreed with but at least the issue gets acknowledged. Compare that to Geko going on the podcasts and being allowed to dismiss everyone's feedback and the uproar that causes. That's a perfect case of the reverse.
Trust me I'd love to be able to say the moderating here is done well, but I have plenty of experience of things being done poorly so I can't, not in good faith to myself or anyone else.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Comments
What people never consider is that the "sell more Zen" part exists so that the missions can be made. Also, once again, you end up insulting the developers, calling the missions they worked on "measly" as if they sucked and weren't worth playing.
What people don't realize that the end of the grind they celebrate at some point is also the point where an MMO will inevitably lose sales or subscriptions - people slowly stop playing, because they achieved their game goals and they have no reason to pay for anything, because they got everything. They ask for more content - but don't realize that there are cost to making that content. Or if they realize that there are cost, they believe the cost aren't as high to justify whatever is asked for them.
Meanwhile, Cryptic however has refused to force us pay for content. They promised once that it would always be free, and they kept to that promise. There is no pay gate to play a Delta Rising missions or Patrols. You just need that level, and you can get that level without spending money* - you just need to spend time playing the game.
*) in fact, spending money seems to be useless for getting beyond this time gate....
And yet despite all the "sell more Zen" stuff added they still don't really add more actual content to the game. And if they do add something unless Taco is doing it its likely rushed, bugged, and forgotten about the moment it goes live, and then broken the first update they make.
No I'm pointing out that all they did was add a few actual story missions and pad the rest out with patrols pretty much only adding enough content to get half way to 60 and then stretched it out with arbitrary minimal levels necessary to unlock it to force people to play longer.
Then add stuff to do because it feels like all the new grind is doing is driving people away from doing things probably becuase its a grind to play roulette and maybe get something.
So instead they nickel and dime you to death on the RNG mechanic.
Probably becuase they get more money off of the RNG mechanic since most people probably don't realize just how much stuff their blowing on a random chance.
And I am pointing out this exists so they can earn the money needed to run the game, including building the new content.
Getting skill points doesn't involve RNG. Upgrading gear to Mark XIV only involve RNG in as it can make it go faster than the basic speed. The only RNG there is whether you improve rarity of your item.
In the end, if you want to complain about RNG; I would complain about lockboxes. Those really suck and I wish all MMOs would do away with them and find other revenue streams. But seems they haven't so far.
The problem is is that the game is starting to sound more and more like this
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html
The unfortunate fact is that MMOs do this. They have done it for a long time.
But if you're still feel joy playing a game - it doesn't matter. But if you keep playing but it feels like work or you spend too much money on them - you need to stop, or you have a problem. You can try to argue on the forums about it, but it's kinda pointless - MMOs can only function with grind, because they need a large player base that either pays for a subscription or that buys game currency.
But IMO it isn't all bad. When I played through Mass Effect 3 or GTA IV, I was done. There wasn't really much to do afterward. Sure I could replay, but for what. Event though I liked the mechanics and all, there wasn't really a reason to go back. In a game like STO, I have some objective like finishing a reputation or unlocking a new specialization ability and I can keep enjoying the game mechanics I loved.
I've seen my father playing Solitaire on his notebook for hours - he seems to enjoy it - but there aren't even any footballs or goals in it (my father is a soccer fan) nor armed space ships that blow each other up (that's more my thing) or any nude women (that would be most heterosexual male's thing). He just likes that game, and he likes playing it over and over again - even though there isn't even a special progress bar going for him. He'll never unlock a new solitair card or a new game mode or whatever.
EDIT:
But don't misunderstand - I am not saying that specializations couldn't or shouldn't go a bit faster or that upgrades couldn't or shouldn't be a bit cheaper - especially once we get in the alt territory. But there is no need to exaggerate the nature of the issue and make it personal, insult each other, threaten, feel victimized or whatever.
And that's a classic example of the problem. They wanted to hear X (i.e. "just a small number of queues are having problems"), but the reality we were telling them was Y ("they're all having problems"). Just like happened with the doff UI and a zillion other things in the past season and a half. And they apparently didn't want to hear that.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Congrats on coming in the middle of a conversation and managing to draw the wrong conclusions .
Here's a cookie .
Oh , and here's a list of things that we were victimized with in DR .
I have already (not-really-sincerely) apologized for being the victim .
Well tbh I don't understand the whole "Gutter" - Thing ... sure lot of the Feedback is pretty negative ... sure every now and then there is one guy who doesn't know how to behave himself (like that guy complaing about Club 47 ... but still 37 pages without "Gutter") ... but some people make it sound like every 2nd Comment is an personal insult to the DEVs ....
I don't get it ... either I'm not that sensitive, or the MOD's have Superpowers deleting all that "Gutter-Talk", right before I can see it ... seems to me, some people just don't want to see all that negative Feedback, going on some smear-campaign ...
This is my attitude as well. I'm sure there's extra stress we're not privy too even at a company advertised as having a great "work/life" balance. And I'm sure Cryptic does. By industry standards. And that the gaming industry probably beats running a hedge fund in terms of cultural stress.
I know some of these folks darned near broke their health to get DR on schedule. It's actually extremely evident from their Twitter accounts.
And while I obviously can't know without going through someone's books? A deadline like that is dumb. It's artificial. It should have been pushed back from my perspective and a lot of the stress and sacrifice devs put into DR should have been lower. It just should have been.
Next, when people gripe about DR, they're not griping about every last thing the developers sweated over. They're griping about monetization and grind. And not even the bulk of the work that went onto that, not even the hours that may have been spent hunched over spreadsheets entering values in or debating multipliers, or reconciling the code base for patch. They're griping about the philosophy behind the monetization design.
Imagine Delta Rising is a car.
The griping isn't about the car. It isn't about the tires or even the steering wheel. It's about the way the folks in the driver's seat are using the steering wheel.
When developers get disillusioned or upset when people complain about DR, I think they must think we're complaining about the car. The forums have been generally favorable about the car though. It's the way the car is being driven that has people upset.
It isn't Thomas' icons or Nick's maps. It isn't the quality of the scripting or the patch notes or a commentary of the labor that went into the expansion. It's squarely about the direction.
A game is a taxi cab.
Delta Rising could be the Rolls Royce of taxi cabs, an elegant ride, a masterpiece of precision engineering.
But someone at Cryptic or PWE is behind the wheel. And you're driving it on the beach. And I think you just drove it through a carnival, knocking over tents, with people running out of the way. And what's that up ahead? This isn't the ride I signed up for. Hit the brakes, please! All I wanted was a smooth, scenic ride across town. Just take me where I asked to go! Gah.
This ride isn't fun.
What's that? You were on the manufacturing team that built the car? No. Really. The car isn't the problem. It's a lovely car. I'm not insulting the car. You're just not taking me to the address I gave you when I got in the car!
Hey, hey, watch out for that sign post. What? I'm not threatening doom. I didn't think you were going to wreck the car. I just wish you'd watch out for traffic and stop hitting signs. No. No. The car is very well engineered. I bet you could knock over thousands of stop signs and never scratch the car. That isn't the point. The point is that I didn't think you'd take me for a ride on the sidewalk and, what's that? Why are we driving through the woods? Let me out of the taxi cab. No. Not here. Just take me to the address I gave you when I got in the car.
Don't worry, you're not the first person this has happened to and you probably won't be the last. Truth is the veteran players of this game know the way the game works extremely well, that includes counters and the maths behind the fancy stuff. It's the veteran players that find out when stuff is broken, and when we point out these things we either seem to get ignored or on the unfortunate occasions what happened to you.
They shouldn't be giving people forum bans just because we can find faults.
They don't. Only people who violate TOS, and then after multiple infractions.
The mods are generally fair, and I can't say that after three years of posting here that they have acted capriciously or with evil intent.
The owners of this forum have the right to close down threads that do nothing to help the process of making the game better. Some threads have a history with this, and if you take the time to look at the some of the mods posts, you'll find valid reasons for each closing.
Tacos responses to what he saw as hurtful - the meme sigs - are valid. But his boss made comments that have no basis in fact, and then assumed that we'd go along with it. The internet is a funny thing, when you say things that are not true, they have a way of biting you in the tuchus.
As for the presumption of freedom of speech - yadda yadda - [insert your beef here] - this forum is a ancillary benefit of a product. Which you don't pay for, and ultimately post here at thier discretion.
My suggestion is this - play within their guidelines. There is plenty of room there to explain, complain, and ultimately play the damned game.
Having said that - there are plenty of off-site avenues to vent in. I would say that constructive venting, with suggestions on how to improve the player experience and/or the game itself are always encouraged and appreciated.
wildweasal made 3 different threads on that, then after they were deleted he made more...
Spam isn't feedback. It's just a great way to get people to not listen.
Your signature is unreadable. Try being a legible **** next time.
Maybe you can tell me wtf is says then....'ongrind" "onorind' even if i could read it don't know what it means.
Like the world is round?
It shouldn't have to be said that 800 patrol missions, nerfed grinding, nerfed dil, nerfed marks, nerfed EC, and everything else they nerfed the last 2 years, do not contribute to happy players.
"Oh well, but didn't get any feedback about it!!!1"
No. 1 bs story in the history of gaming. You really saying that after the forums have been on fire for half a year, you call that NO feedback?
So I guess yeah the stress level has to be quite high over there when you can't come up with a better story than that.
However even trying to do any story at all, the attempt itself, shows bs.
Like I said, none of the added grinding that is supposed to sit in for content, getting a negative response can be a surprise to anyone.
Way I see it, just like players try to get away from their design - least resistance, developers apply the same strategy with players and the forums.
It's simply easier to write off the forum than to fix the game, right?
I'm being totally honest here....i don't understand how someone can put up a 13 paragraph post about how much the game sucks, with 6 thousand posts under their belt, and still play the game.
JUST QUIT! If at this point your complaining hasn't fixed anything why continue with the complaining?
I think a lot of your points are valid, individually many of them are non-issues, when you combine a certain few together into a string, it shows the very massive design problem that is present.
Nobody likes their stuff to become worthless, any level cap increase in any game has people rage quit based on this alone. STO brewed their own perfect storm, by dealing with the devil and selling power, monetizing every aspect of the game, a player can now figure out just how much their ship and gear is worth. Anyone want to calculate? Its a lot of money to lose.
You can also calculate how much that T6 ship and gear is going to cost, and its much higher. Most players are going to get a shock, step back and think, but I have a lot of fun playing the game, and continue on. After DR, are we having a lot of fun playing the game?
A level cap increase without nearly enough content to get there.
In addition, there isn't any suitable content in the game that players can turn to (patrols do not count as suitable) to close that xp gap.
The content that does exist, isn't rewarding suitable XP, and the changes to Advanced/Elite was a major TRIBBLE up; by just adjusting numbers instead of making a real difficulty increase it added more grind and boring gameplay.
The power creep after LoR turned into a power sprint, and with DR, its managed to board a jet and take off. Its invalidated any balance, its made a ship as strong as a fleet, and it destroyed the whole reason for a level cap increase, new gear; not to mention putting any challenge in content.
So when the level cap increase came, and you look at whats happened, do you shrug it off and have fun, or do you realize that its just not fun anymore and not worth the cost?
Also I can't agree more with the hourly events, and the population in game seemed to agree with them too, because its not been the same since.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Everything was casual, not least the way in which you could fly any ship and career you wanted using whatever.
Here comes DR exclusively built on dps.
Makes no sense to me at ALL. As much as I am not the casual gamer or a fan of lore or whatever, the premise of the game has been to allow room for those people going on half a decade.
Now they want us buying dps for millions of dil...
I don't think they have an overall concept of their game or long term visions.
It's pretty much week by week trying to release whatever rushed out crafting with missing mods you have time for, then you can post-rationalize as much as you have time for after.
I mean sure the nerfing of everything, time gating and dil sinks have been consistent true enough.
Need to be careful here.
From what I get, most of the ignorant are happy with the game. These are people that just shoot at things and never think beyond 5-10 seconds of what they can do to improve. As a result, they have poor defense and no offense, and content is fun and challenging.
Its only after you learn how broken everything is, how you can multiple and multiple your damage over and over again. How you can layer defenses so no ships can hurt even in advanced/elite. Then when you realize you don't need a defense, you can remove that and multiple your damage again, and find out how truly boring and unhappy you are.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
There is always room for improvement and there are things in this game I would like to see done differently. I have a presence on the forums and have voiced my opinions about the things I don't agree with I don't do it superlatively and here is where I feel there is a problem. The volume of posts about petty tripe buries everything else.
In order to disseminate information pertinent to valid criticisms of the game and it's state you would require significant manpower. While titles can point toward useful information how frequently are posts derailed by random negativity? Why would anyone choose to sift through the metaphorical sewer? Without considerable examination the forums can be painted in broad strokes as stupid. You can't fix stupid.
The question you posed struck me as a variation on the fan defense. Enjoying something like Star Trek isn't justification to behave discourteously or to be ungrateful because someone doesn't share your particular vision of a TV series. Thankfully some people here direct their appreciation and obsession toward the state of this game. If their attentions were directed at other people they would be identified as deviants and live under the conditions of a restraining order. Most stalkers think they genuinely love someone too.
Would podcast audio suffice? Just listen to ANY podcast where Al Rivera (aka Captain Gekko) is interviewed, and I can guarantee hell say something poking fun at or disparaging to the STO playerbse. (and yes, I'm serious.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
All in all Delta Rising was a good expansion, story content wise. A lot of grind, a prior back up of power creep via reputation (a good change) is totally undone by specialization nonsense and frankly that's what's killing the game for me. Primarily before DR, all I did was pvp with an occasional pve to go through a reputation. That was quick and got me back into pvp very quickly. Now there is such an astronomical difference and you're either fully through specialization or you're not.
I have no desire to grind for specialization that way and while I've had no problem dealing with any pve, the difference really manifests itself in pvp. I just can't be bothered with that tedious grind to remain competitive and even more is coming. I've played daily for quite awhile but I find my play time dropping and dropping because of dead pvp/pve queues. It's too bad as I've thoroughly enjoyed this game for the last 4 years.
These things mentioned by others and myself here need to be addressed or I can see myself throwing my hands up.
On a side note, I've found devs quite responsive. Don't always respond but if it's a legit issue I've generally always gotten a response.
Vanilla Ground PvP information
First I made 2 not three also they were deleted they were closed there were close because one dev answered the first post and said oh this is working as intended which totally flies in the face of what they espouse they want and PVP which is no one-shot kills and no permanent disables so therefore we all figured maybe we didn't explain it right which why in the second post it was broken down and painful minute detail I wonder did you even read the link??? See this is what I'm talking about don't muddy the situation up with peripheral bullcrap "he make two separate posts" that was the not point the point is is that something is horribly broken we pointed out why it was broken we show them why it was broken they choose to still ignore us you can't have it both ways you can't say this is what you want in our (meaning devs) game and then we say okay based on what you're saying this appears to be broken you might want to look at that and then being told to sod off and as far as making a duplicate post this entire form is a damn mess if you look in the bug reports there are easily multiple multiple multiple upon multiple post about the same thing here I'll even help you out a little bit you know that thing about people not getting their discount to buy the Breen ship? Just on that alone how many duplicate posts were there on that??? With the hot mess that this form is and has become I don't hear that TRIBBLE about duplicate post.. you don't want to duplicate post ?? fix it... Then problem solved.... One other thing in passing as to whether this form is a gutter or not? I will say I find it odd that people are nicer to the devs on Reddit than they are in their own forms and believe me the people on Reddit have torches and pitchforks so best I sent a whole bunch against but food for thought
In fairness we're also not allowed to bump bug reports that haven't been acknowledged, heck I can think of at least 10 bugs that haven't been acknowledged, was I supposed to go make threads on each one and keep bumping them? In all honesty the forum rules are a wall to reporting bugs when they aren't picked up on well enough, and the guy does have a point, because some powers do fly in the face of what the devs have said should be the case in a PvP or a PvE setting.
I know people who have been banned before just for pointing out the inherent flaw with the logic the devs were using, and I can promise you now they weren't spamming the forums or making any TOS violations, they were just trying to make clear the logic was flawed.
I've seen a lot of bad moderating while I've been here, over a longer period of time. Granted a lot of the moderating is done well, however the times I've seen it done very poorly has only served to cause a number of issues. TOS rules shouldn't be used as a means of silencing people, and while I may be wrong in this case, it doesn't mean the ones I know about are any less permissible.
I do think this is also a symptom of lack of communication though, as many things people get irate about on these forums are things that, really, wouldn't be happening in the first place if we had better communication from the devs. Just look how much calmer most threads get when a dev acknowledges or even clarifies an issue, and sure they're not always agreed with but at least the issue gets acknowledged. Compare that to Geko going on the podcasts and being allowed to dismiss everyone's feedback and the uproar that causes. That's a perfect case of the reverse.
Trust me I'd love to be able to say the moderating here is done well, but I have plenty of experience of things being done poorly so I can't, not in good faith to myself or anyone else.