Yesterday's patch addressed two major bugs that players wanted acted upon.
I don't think you get any higher priority than 'yesterday'.
2.) Systems are released even when the Devs know that they are broken
This is a fair point.
3.) Ships (stats, models) will only be updated and fixed when you can make money out of it
Incorrect. See the Type 5 ship material, the Steamrunner model with engines placed in a location players asked for, and the numerous iterations the ships in STO went through to improve quality and workmanship.
4.) Balancing: That is one thing we are praying for years, factions need to be equal to each other but they are not and this needs to be adressed.
Another fair point.
5.) it was said very often that Devs are casual players, and that is fine but we also need some hardcore Devs that do PvP and PvE at expert level so you understand what we are talking about.
Ehhhhh...
6.) Dilithium: I know a currency is needed but everything in this game cost Dilithium, a game is supposed to make fun but my biggest concern is when I build a new ship how much Dilithium will cost me that and how long will it take me to get it.
Not everything costs dilithium. Things that are supposed to be valuable have a dilithium cost attached to them. It's a time-gated currency, meaning people who want to buy something with dilithium attached to it, is paying for more than the item. They're paying for the time spent to get the dilithium behind that item.
This is why some items are worth lots of EC and Engine Batteries are still worthless.
7.) ALTS: The game is very alt unfriendly, it was greate when we got the Reputation Sponsorship but that was nearly a year ago and since than every alt for itself. If a player has more alts to explore the game as a TAC a SCI and ENG he should get a benefit for it, and with the update how the Bridge Officer Training is going to work this is a step into the right direction but guess what we need Dilithium, go to point #6
Another fair point.
This game has huge potential but major issues needs to be addressed first.
I like my signature, even though I wanted a bigger one. To me it's not meant in an aggressive way, but it highlights the DR aftermath very well. Cryptic says everything is wonderful while the mob is marching on the castle.
The truth as always is somewhere in-between, not everything about DR is terrible but some things seem heavy handed. I feel that Cryptic as a developer often goes from one extreme to another, balance is the key, be it with gameplay, difficulty or monetization.
Agreed. Cryptic, your main invented race, the Deferi, are a really neat addition to the Star Trek universe. You would, ironically, be better off if you listened to them.
It used to work that you got the materials needed and then crafted the thing you wanted, at the rarity you wanted, and with the mods you wanted.
So how is the new system an improvement?
Because now there are new items. Now there are upgrade kits to make almost any item in the game the quality and Mk you want it. Personally, I'm working on upgrading my Type 1 Phaser to Gold-quality Mk XIV level just because I can.
I do believe Jesse Heinig did mention that there are plans to work in a system to change the mods on crafted items, but it was cut to push the current system out. Like anything, the crafting system as it currently stands is a work in progress.
Items are actually valuable in the crafting system. The Level 15 traits are useful. Players can actually devote time to making things for other players that are actually in demand and make money in a player based economy.
Now now, don't say anything critical to or about Taco. Otherwise the 'Q' account may spank you...
If only...
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
In the old system you'd play eSTF fresh on level 50 and get 1200 dil with a chance for free drops of the best gear in-game
You were also allowed to build anything you want and fly anything you wanted in oppose to the current dps wall
Geko has openly said they did want to create a real crafting system, in where the materials is stuff you decompile, like in a real crafting system, and that they have no intention of adding the mods - now that people are already throwing millions upon millions upon millions into the tiny little copy paste text upgrade
/edit
ps. they COULD have created a meaningful crafting system that simply just added to the game but they went with the biggest dil sink yet for copy-paste text, no animations, no models and unfinished and rushed out.
Arguable the lottery part is the worst but only as an extension of the massive dil price
In the old system you'd play eSTF fresh on level 50 and get 1200 dil with a chance for free drops of the best gear in-game
You were also allowed to build anything you want and fly anything you wanted in oppose to the current dps wall
Geko has openly said they did want to create a real crafting system, in where the materials is stuff you decompile, like in a real crafting system, and that they have no intention of adding the mods - now that people are already throwing millions upon millions upon millions into the tiny little copy paste text upgrade
/edit
ps. they COULD have created a meaningful crafting system that simply just added to the game but they went with the biggest dil sink yet for copy-paste text, no animations, no models and unfinished and rushed out.
Arguable the lottery part is the worst but only as an extension of the massive dil price
They have upped the rewards on some of the STF's on TRIBBLE.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
The forums are boring and repeatable now...it's pretty much STO on MS-DOS
Something new happens, someone opens a thread hating it then someone comes in and defends it, then someone calls that person a troll, then 5 other threads open up on the same subject, then they get merge, thene somoene opens a thread asking why it got merge, I make a new Signiture on new topic, and then 2 weeks later new subject comes up rinse repeat.
The forums are boring and repeatable now...it's pretty much STO on MS-DOS
Something new happens, someone opens a thread hating it then someone comes in and defends it, then someone calls that person a troll, then 5 other threads open up on the same subject, then they get merge, thene somoene opens a thread asking why it got merge, I make a new Signiture on new topic, and then 2 weeks later new subject comes up rinse repeat.
I wish I could send you a dilithium tip like in the Foundry for whenever one of your new signatures amuses me.
Not seeing the necessity of a revamp just to do that.
Now there are upgrade kits to make almost any item in the game the quality and Mk you want it.
Yeah, except changing rarity is at the mercy of the RNG system and is where you usually end up burning through dilithium.
I do believe Jesse Heinig did mention that there are plans to work in a system to change the mods on crafted items, but it was cut to push the current system out. Like anything, the crafting system as it currently stands is a work in progress.
And how long before they actually revisit it
Items are actually valuable in the crafting system. The Level 15 traits are useful. Players can actually devote time to making things for other players that are actually in demand and make money in a player based economy.
Which largely sit on the exchange for months becuase few people will fork over that kind of EC.
Case in point doing a cost analysis it was cheaper to buy a TR-116 off the exchange than to buy everything needed to craft one.
Not seeing the necessity of a revamp just to do that.
Not just to do that, but to add all the other things I mentioned.
Yeah, except changing rarity is at the mercy of the RNG system and is where you usually end up burning through dilithium.
True, but that's kind of the point. You make a real investment on the things you want to upgrade. Eventually, at some point, it will turn the rarity color you want it to.
And how long before they actually revisit it
Hopefully when it's ready and not a moment sooner.
Which largely sit on the exchange for months becuase few people will fork over that kind of EC.
Then they lower their price because people won't pay it. That's how the economy works.
Case in point doing a cost analysis it was cheaper to buy a TR-116 off the exchange than to buy everything needed to craft one.
Too many variables at work to definitively say that's the case.
That was not me saying "we need better feedback."
That was me saying "creating (or helping to create) a hostile environment through the use of a passive aggressive meme, RATHER THAN constructive feedback, is not helpful.
And please, everyone who's saying "nothing ever comes of feedback" just stop. Yes, it may not be as often as you like, but there are a thousand times that feedback from players, from the forums, has had a direct impact on something we did in the game.
This is patently false. My line about being able to develop the game without visiting the forums is not saying I don't care what you have to say. It's saying that my interaction with you here is entirely voluntary on my part. If I feel like I'm taking hits below the belt, or getting too much flak, I can just leave. Your feedback is important, and we DO care what you think.
Beta, you say there wouldn't be as many problems if we "just listened" to you. If you say Apple, and someone else says Broccoli, what's the right answer? We can't do both, we have to pick one. No matter which we pick, we will be told that we didn't listen* to the other side.
*Note: Listening does not equal action. We listened to both sides, and we picked a direction. Apple won. That doesn't mean Broccoli was ignored.
Also note that, as I've mentioned before (and started a fire over), STO is a product. We make a product. You are the consumers. You can choose to consume said product, or not consume said product. You can offer feedback about said product, and we may or may not choose to utilize your feedback. You are not the only thing that decides how/what our product is.*
*Note: This is NOT me saying "STFU or GTFO" as was the misinterpretation last time, so please don't take it as such this time. We've had that thread already.
I am glad you came to the forums Tacofangs welcome sir
Most of us know who you are and most of our Beefs with the game 99.9% are not related to your job at cryptic.
If one of the devs in charge of lets say ship powers was to come to the forums and outline a change to a power for balance reasons and ask for help on how to do it and explain why it was being changed I bet he would get a LOT of positive feedback from very experienced players..The trolls would be silenced by other forum posters
Yes the majority of posters here love this game but they don't like the direction they see it going...As a matter of fact I don't either
But if I was asked for help on deciding a issue I would do my best to offer what advice I could for the betterment of the game...I also think most of the posters here would as well
The problem is no Dev has used this approach here in the forum and I think that they should
As a example A dev asks for help creating a duty officer to enhance Hazzard emmiters
What powers should this new duty officer have
a. Extends hazzard emmiters for 8 seconds
b. adds 1/2 of hazard effects to any team mate within 3km
c. Buffed by cruiser command ( shields)
many other suggestions would be offered by other players
The Dev would make his decisions and post back he is using these suggestions and thank everyone for there contribututions
personally I think this would work
Thanks again Tacofangs for posting on the forums
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Are you sure?
Really sure?
Because to me it looks more like a smelly old laundry list .
There is a version of it by another player in this very thread, I've written up 5-6 versions of it in the last 2 months and I've seen literally dozens of versions of it since DR debuted .
In fact the only Dev who at this point would see that list as "helpful feedback" would be either the one who never reads the forums, or the one who just arrived from Mars and is going through immigration as we speak .
More player devotion to this list is more productive than the Delta Rising signatures. If players made their signature revolving around particular points of this list, it has a much better chance of getting favorable attention.
I'm just curious ... , what would you consider an acceptable response time to any of the items in said list from a Devs POV, and what is the acceptable time that should give the player the impression that he's talking to a wall and that he should start protests by alternative means?
It's like the Occupy Wallstreet protest.
It ... kind of is .
Which gives me the impression that you did not fully grasp the glorious futility that those protests were either .
The sigs are wonderful blend of humor, commiserating, protesting, mocking and most importantly they are a futile gesture ... , but not in the way you think .
They are futile at making great changes, but they excel at expressing the collective feeling of this segment of the community , and even though I did not join it, I non the less celebrate and respect the creativity and the bitter sorrow it hides with good cheer .
What the Delta Rising signatures are doing are just giving an overall negative feeling. A general sense of unhappiness. If people want changes made, the only way it's going to work is by doing the thing people have been reminding posters to do for years... constructive feedback.
In an ideal unspoiled world those words would have merit .
In a game where Tribble feedback gets ignored time and again, and the Nerf bat is the tool of the day ... , I'm sorry, but I don't think we have any recourse left .
I understand the need to look for the "bad guys" . If in your eyes the sigs are making the players fit that role then you're welcome to that opinion .
But I also understand taking responsibility .
And Taco's pretty art can't hide all the bad things that came with DR, and I don't envy his place in our situation .
I'm sure he'd work even harder if he could fix the issues in that list .
Unfortunately for us all, none of the issues with DR are Art related .
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Not just to do that, but to add all the other things I mentioned.
none of which couldn't have been added to the old system, all the new system did was add doffs to crafting which makes doffs unavailable for missions, and making the use dilithium in it more of a pain becuase you need rare mats now.
True, but that's kind of the point. You make a real investment on the things you want to upgrade. Eventually, at some point, it will turn the rarity color you want it to.
Epic is over rated I'd rather just spend a relatively small amount of dilithium (and that was before fleet mines) on fleet gear and upgrade that.
Then they lower their price because people won't pay it. That's how the economy works.
And at some point you end up selling it dirt cheap.
Too many variables at work to definitively say that's the case.
Simple just factor how much the doff needed which is pretty much going to be the most expensive thing, and then if that doesn't do it add all the rare components you have to buy.
Really its easier to craft and sell the components on the exchange as you probably make more than crafting the whole item.
For example, you just said you haven't gotten any feedback about DR, that you have no idea what people are talking about? But then RIGHT after you say you don't need better feedback? Which one is it, do you even know?
Wha? Where did I say we needed more feedback about DR? What I've been saying is that the signatures that are so prevalent right now are not providing anything useful. I'm not saying there aren't useful threads.
Another example is when you say "we can develop without the forums".
When your testers have said on record that "without the forums we cannot do our jobs", in where they get more or less ALL their data, from players, from the forums.
Well, I explained this IN the quote you quoted, but that whole line was directly in response to this quote: "If the Devs can't handle criticism (often expressed through irony, sarcasm, hyperboles etc.) they shouldn't develop an online game."
I'm not saying we shouldn't interact, or take feedback, or visit the forums. The forums ARE a valuable source of information for us (despite what people think.) I'm saying that MY job is not interacting with people on the forums.
i.e. "If the Devs can't handle the criticism (of the forums)" I will just go back to doing my day job.
Then your pitch about apples and Broccoli, where you expect us to believe, the developers actually create updates based on what people asked for, all the while you "don't include the forums or players in general"....
Again, the "Don't include the forums or players in general" comment was about including you in early discussions of upcoming content. That doesn't mean that the posts here have no bearing on what content we make, or how we make things. It means that interaction is silent. We absorb information from the forums, and then produce content that has been influenced by that information. As I have said time, and time again. That is only one factor in deciding what we work on and where we go. The forums are A factor, not THE factor.
Nerfed all drops and nerfed STF (broke the top outfits for 18 months)
Tour the galaxy nerfed
Vendor trash nerfed (my personal favorite)
Stolen reputation passives (claimed power creep then released new passives to grind for under specialization)
Deleted exploration
Killed console fabrication
DR, nerfed dil
DR, nerfed EC
DR, nerfed marks
DR, nerfed exp
DR, grinding on an astronomical scale
DR, millions of dil entry fee for text upgrades with no content
See, THOSE are what your signatures should be talking about. Not simply stating that you are displeased. Express WHAT you're displeased about, and maybe even how you think it could be addressed.
See, THOSE are what your signatures should be talking about. Not simply stating that you are displeased. Express WHAT you're displeased about, and maybe even how you think it could be addressed.
See, these problems have been listed over and over again in the forums and ignored. I'll consider changing my forum sig if someone can increase the size of the sig. I would like to be able to fit ALL the problems inside the sig. Yes, it's going to be huge.
Because to me it looks more like a smelly old laundry list .
There is a version of it by another player in this very thread, I've written up 5-6 versions of it in the last 2 months and I've seen literally dozens of versions of it since DR debuted .
In fact the only Dev who at this point would see that list as "helpful feedback" would be either the one who never reads the forums, or the one who just arrived from Mars and is going through immigration as we speak .
That doesn't make it 'not feedback'.
I'm just curious ... , what would you consider an acceptable response time to any of the items in said list from a Devs POV, and what is the acceptable time that should give the player the impression that he's talking to a wall and that he should start protests by alternative means?
When it's ready. I'd prefer devs to work on their own time tables and take their time with ensuring issues are fixed right the first time instead of being fixed quickly, because that is usually when we see fixed things not so fixed as previously indicated.
Patience is a virtue.
It ... kind of is .
Which gives me the impression that you did not fully grasp the glorious futility that those protests were either .
The sigs are wonderful blend of humor, commiserating, protesting, mocking and most importantly they are a futile gesture ... , but not in the way you think .
They are futile at making great changes, but they excel at expressing the collective feeling of this segment of the community , and even though I did not join it, I non the less celebrate and respect the creativity and the bitter sorrow it hides with good cheer .
It is counter productive and does little to contribute to the conversation. I pointed this out once it gained speed, and just shrugged my shoulders when it became evident nobody cared what I had to say about it.
The only thing to celebrate is as Tacofangs put it, celebrating another bridge to burn. People want Cryptic to communicate with them, but then they create these disparaging signatures which foster hostility and resentment.
They accomplish the exact opposite of what these signatures reportedly are meant to address.
In an ideal unspoiled world those words would have merit .
In a game where Tribble feedback gets ignored time and again, and the Nerf bat is the tool of the day ... , I'm sorry, but I don't think we have any recourse left .
So you're demoralized. I get demoralized too sometimes. I'll stop playing the game for a while. I'll stop visiting the forums for a while. Then I'll come back, roll up my sleeves, and try to get something productive done.
Sometimes Cryptic improves my morale, sometimes they don't. I can't win every battle with Cryptic, but I also haven't lost every battle.
If I truly believed they didn't listen to me or even acted on what I had to say from time to time, you would not see me on the forums at all. It simply would not be worth my time to communicate. It would be a waste of energy. It would be a waste of thoughtfulness that I can easily apply to other games I play.
But I haven't reached the same conclusion as you have. If I had, things would be different.
I understand the need to look for the "bad guys" . If in your eyes the sigs are making the players fit that role then you're welcome to that opinion .
But I also understand taking responsibility .
And Taco's pretty art can't hide all the bad things that came with DR, and I don't envy his place in our situation .
I'm sure he'd work even harder if he could fix the issues in that list .
I don't think of the other people in those kinds of terms. I don't see things in black-and-white like "good guys" and "bad guys". I believe people exist on a spectrum, so I tend not to give into the mental desire to fall into polarizing "us vs. them" mentality.
People with these signatures sometimes have very good points, and even the people who don't seem to bring any sanity or constructive feedback to the table most of the time? Well, sometimes are right every once in a while.
Like STO, I give each poster a chance to show what they can bring to the forums on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I don't.
Just like I expect people to disagree with me sometimes. No person (whether they're at Cryptic or a player) has a flawless record.
Unfortunately for us all, none of the issues with DR are Art related .
That isn't to say Tacofangs doesn't come across art-related issues at all in his line of work. Those ESD shuttle bay threads were interesting for a time.
Which is why everyone (both sides) should stop being insulting.
What about the many posts that aren't insulting at all? If someone posts something insulting, that person just gave you a reason to ignore his post. But what about the many detailed threads about what people feel is wrong about the direction that STO is heading?
Wha? Where did I say we needed more feedback about DR? What I've been saying is that the signatures that are so prevalent right now are not providing anything useful. I'm not saying there aren't useful threads.
So, what about these useful threads? Have these threads effected change in the direction of the game? Is there an ongoing discussion between Cryptic and the players on how and why some changes were made and other changes were not?
I'm not saying we shouldn't interact, or take feedback, or visit the forums. The forums ARE a valuable source of information for us (despite what people think.) I'm saying that MY job is not interacting with people on the forums.
Then pass along a message to those people whose job is to consider feedback, those people whose job is to design systems in the game, and those whose job is to make decisions about the direction of the game.
Again, the "Don't include the forums or players in general" comment was about including you in early discussions of upcoming content. That doesn't mean that the posts here have no bearing on what content we make, or how we make things. It means that interaction is silent. We absorb information from the forums, and then produce content that has been influenced by that information. As I have said time, and time again. That is only one factor in deciding what we work on and where we go. The forums are A factor, not THE factor.
Just what is "THE factor"? Profitability? Profitability in the very short term, while sacrificing long term growth? Profitability to the exclusion of everything else?
How long ago was Delta Rising released? Almost three months now? Have there been any real changes that benefit players?
Change to the rate of experience gain?
Change to the amount of experience awarded through missions?
Change to the cost of R&D (dilithium, specific duty officers, rare and very rare materials)?
Change to the cost of upgrading (dilithium, rare and very rare materials, chance of rarity upgrade)?
Change to the rewards from completing queued PvE missions?
Change to the added failure objectives in Advanced PvE missions?
Change to the reduced energy credit value of items?
See, THOSE are what your signatures should be talking about. Not simply stating that you are displeased. Express WHAT you're displeased about, and maybe even how you think it could be addressed.
Do you only see those signatures and nothing else? Many players have expressed what they have been displeased about. Many players have suggested changes or alternatives. Hell, even some have suggested on other ways to monetize the game, which seems incredibly counter-intuitive to me, but these posts do exist. These signatures exist because players feel that they have exhausted their options on trying to start a discussion on what and how things can change in the game they love to the benefit of all those involved.
See, THOSE are what your signatures should be talking about. Not simply stating that you are displeased. Express WHAT you're displeased about, and maybe even how you think it could be addressed.
That's at the heart of much of the discontent here. I would suggest that the dev team needs to be much more forthright about what feedback they're taking to heart and how that's influencing the direction they want to take the game.
A broad swath of players feel that Delta Rising is too grindy, that it's too unfriendly to alts, that it killed PUGging for all but a handful of PvE queues, that its nerfs have done more harm than good, etc. So when the communications from the dev team are always about how awesome DR is and never about the problems the game faces and how we're going to resolve them together, people are going to feel like they're not being listened to.
It's not our job to improve the bloody game. That is the job of the devs. Our job as consumer is to decide if we like what they produce or not and maybe do reviews for fellow consumers. You can POLITELY request thing of course...but even the more mild requests on this forum is far from polite. If you went into a burger king and demanded that they give you a ostrich burger...and how dare they not have such an item and the MUST have it or else you will sit there and scream and yell, you'd be dragged away by the cops. You all are lucky the mods here are fraking tolerant as all hell to let you all yell like you do. Remember there is no free speech here...this is a private forum.
but what if i went into burger king and ordered fries . paid for them and moved down the line to pick up window. after waiting 2 years i still dont get my fries.
in this case im refering to the the KDF costume slots that were bought and paid for but have never worked sure they show up in the window but you cant edit them in any way shape or form. but the `1st 4 slot work fine .
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I must hand it to Tacofangs - he has a lot more patience than I!
lol yea! If I was Taco and had the skill and access to the game I would of taken some of these peoples toons and every time they log on they appear at whatever faction zone. Example.. FED They would appear tied to a pole blind folded. Then players can phaser them. Every shot takes away a item they have. In the end they go vapor and toon is deleted lol
I have, but your signature isn't simply stating what's wrong, it's implying that the devs are slave masters, and forcing you to do things. . .
Here is the irony... After people played through "Delta Rising", many players explained everything in the forums. During the first few months of "Delta Rising", Geko and a few others used podcasts to deflect the negative feedback.
Now, you are acting as though you don't understand?
*shrugs*
Here is why...
First, "Star Trek: Online - Season Five, Six, and Seven" made the gaming experience casual. As a result of not feeling pressured, players, such as myself, would spend a boatload of money on zen. Once Cryptic started to add micro- and macro-transactions, players started to feel 'pushed' into buying something. People now feel as though they are forced into buying zen, so they can bypass the slave system (aka- the grind).
Second, if you pay attention to how the industry is changing, the players are finally seeing the flaw behind 'the grinding' experience. While some grinding is good for passing time, "Star Trek: Online's" obsessive layers of grinding mechanics is daunting. Other words, "Star Trek: Online" now has way-way-way too many grinding mechanics. Cryptic has managed to turn everything into a reputation system. R&D, Fleet holdings, reputation system, item upgrades, duty officers, etc... Way-way-way too many grinds.
Third, players want to make progress steadily and casually. When you combined timegates, a light reward system, and heavy resource requirements together, many players don't feel fulfilled from playing the game. Unless you come up with a meaningful 'daily' reward, (something awesome to be obtained and 'used' after two to three hours of fun), I don't see how people will stick around.
Fourth, players do not want their purchases to lose value. Once the tier 5 and fleet ships became underpowered, due to the introduction of level 60, players lost a whole lot of money and progress. Spending $25-$30 on an item is very expensive. Upon making the $25-$30 purchases under powered, as a result of adding level 60, the strings of trust between many players and Cryptic had been severed. Also, progressing from level 50 to 60 takes way-way too long. Upon getting one avatar to level 58, I ended up walking away from "Star Trek: Online".
Fifth, players are willing to pay into the system, for as long as they are getting something meaningful. If all they are getting is 40 gold coins, people will most likely play an entirely different game. Nerfing or thinning out the reward system (or, stretching the goal line) has scared many pc-players away.
Sixth, the daily calendar events are gone. When there were scheduled daily events, the game felt like a daily 'Star Trek' episode. Players were signing in at certain time periods, so they can work on events together. "Star Trek: Online" felt 'live'.
Seventh, the Fleetbases, embassies, and mines have thinned out the playerbase. When people were hanging around the Omega office, players were congregating in one location. Your player population is way too thinned out.
Eighth, the auto-fail feature in 'advanced' stfs is horrible. Since new players are forced to play advanced stfs, due to a low population interest in norms, the auto-failure feature is making it an annoyance to play.
Out of everything I have mentioned, the most important thing to take away is: 'obsessive grinding', 'heavy resource requirements', 'low reward systems', 'slow progression', 'multiple-currencies', 'nerfing content', 'repetitive mission play', and 'under-powering already purchase content' sucks.
"Star Trek: Online" went from 'cool' to 'suckage' due to a long string of missteps.
...and, that is why I uninstalled "Star Trek: Online".
You can win me back over; however, you have to earn it this time around.
*points at useless duty officer upgrade*
Ditch it.
Instead of wasting everyone's time, I would just add them to the duty officer training store.
See, THOSE are what your signatures should be talking about. Not simply stating that you are displeased. Express WHAT you're displeased about, and maybe even how you think it could be addressed.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Comments
Yesterday's patch addressed two major bugs that players wanted acted upon.
I don't think you get any higher priority than 'yesterday'.
This is a fair point.
Incorrect. See the Type 5 ship material, the Steamrunner model with engines placed in a location players asked for, and the numerous iterations the ships in STO went through to improve quality and workmanship.
Another fair point.
Ehhhhh...
Not everything costs dilithium. Things that are supposed to be valuable have a dilithium cost attached to them. It's a time-gated currency, meaning people who want to buy something with dilithium attached to it, is paying for more than the item. They're paying for the time spent to get the dilithium behind that item.
This is why some items are worth lots of EC and Engine Batteries are still worthless.
Another fair point.
And continue to be addressed.
Except it didn't used to work that way.
It used to work that you got the materials needed and then crafted the thing you wanted, at the rarity you wanted, and with the mods you wanted.
So how is the new system an improvement?
Agreed. Cryptic, your main invented race, the Deferi, are a really neat addition to the Star Trek universe. You would, ironically, be better off if you listened to them.
Because now there are new items. Now there are upgrade kits to make almost any item in the game the quality and Mk you want it. Personally, I'm working on upgrading my Type 1 Phaser to Gold-quality Mk XIV level just because I can.
I do believe Jesse Heinig did mention that there are plans to work in a system to change the mods on crafted items, but it was cut to push the current system out. Like anything, the crafting system as it currently stands is a work in progress.
Items are actually valuable in the crafting system. The Level 15 traits are useful. Players can actually devote time to making things for other players that are actually in demand and make money in a player based economy.
That didn't happen in the old system.
If only...
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
In the old system you'd play eSTF fresh on level 50 and get 1200 dil with a chance for free drops of the best gear in-game
You were also allowed to build anything you want and fly anything you wanted in oppose to the current dps wall
Geko has openly said they did want to create a real crafting system, in where the materials is stuff you decompile, like in a real crafting system, and that they have no intention of adding the mods - now that people are already throwing millions upon millions upon millions into the tiny little copy paste text upgrade
/edit
ps. they COULD have created a meaningful crafting system that simply just added to the game but they went with the biggest dil sink yet for copy-paste text, no animations, no models and unfinished and rushed out.
Arguable the lottery part is the worst but only as an extension of the massive dil price
They have upped the rewards on some of the STF's on TRIBBLE.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Quite refreshing actually, even ignoring the obvious children in the room, this is pretty good
Something new happens, someone opens a thread hating it then someone comes in and defends it, then someone calls that person a troll, then 5 other threads open up on the same subject, then they get merge, thene somoene opens a thread asking why it got merge, I make a new Signiture on new topic, and then 2 weeks later new subject comes up rinse repeat.
I wish I could send you a dilithium tip like in the Foundry for whenever one of your new signatures amuses me.
Are you reading the same forums I'm reading? There is way too much flaming going on. Most threads I read contain some person ripping Geko a new one.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Not seeing the necessity of a revamp just to do that.
Yeah, except changing rarity is at the mercy of the RNG system and is where you usually end up burning through dilithium.
And how long before they actually revisit it
Which largely sit on the exchange for months becuase few people will fork over that kind of EC.
Case in point doing a cost analysis it was cheaper to buy a TR-116 off the exchange than to buy everything needed to craft one.
Did they either get rid of the mandatory or nerf the NPC HPs?
If not I don't think its going to work.
Not just to do that, but to add all the other things I mentioned.
True, but that's kind of the point. You make a real investment on the things you want to upgrade. Eventually, at some point, it will turn the rarity color you want it to.
Hopefully when it's ready and not a moment sooner.
Then they lower their price because people won't pay it. That's how the economy works.
Too many variables at work to definitively say that's the case.
I am glad you came to the forums Tacofangs welcome sir
Most of us know who you are and most of our Beefs with the game 99.9% are not related to your job at cryptic.
If one of the devs in charge of lets say ship powers was to come to the forums and outline a change to a power for balance reasons and ask for help on how to do it and explain why it was being changed I bet he would get a LOT of positive feedback from very experienced players..The trolls would be silenced by other forum posters
Yes the majority of posters here love this game but they don't like the direction they see it going...As a matter of fact I don't either
But if I was asked for help on deciding a issue I would do my best to offer what advice I could for the betterment of the game...I also think most of the posters here would as well
The problem is no Dev has used this approach here in the forum and I think that they should
As a example A dev asks for help creating a duty officer to enhance Hazzard emmiters
What powers should this new duty officer have
a. Extends hazzard emmiters for 8 seconds
b. adds 1/2 of hazard effects to any team mate within 3km
c. Buffed by cruiser command ( shields)
many other suggestions would be offered by other players
The Dev would make his decisions and post back he is using these suggestions and thank everyone for there contribututions
personally I think this would work
Thanks again Tacofangs for posting on the forums
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Are you sure?
Really sure?
Because to me it looks more like a smelly old laundry list .
There is a version of it by another player in this very thread, I've written up 5-6 versions of it in the last 2 months and I've seen literally dozens of versions of it since DR debuted .
In fact the only Dev who at this point would see that list as "helpful feedback" would be either the one who never reads the forums, or the one who just arrived from Mars and is going through immigration as we speak .
I'm just curious ... , what would you consider an acceptable response time to any of the items in said list from a Devs POV, and what is the acceptable time that should give the player the impression that he's talking to a wall and that he should start protests by alternative means?
It ... kind of is .
Which gives me the impression that you did not fully grasp the glorious futility that those protests were either .
The sigs are wonderful blend of humor, commiserating, protesting, mocking and most importantly they are a futile gesture ... , but not in the way you think .
They are futile at making great changes, but they excel at expressing the collective feeling of this segment of the community , and even though I did not join it, I non the less celebrate and respect the creativity and the bitter sorrow it hides with good cheer .
In an ideal unspoiled world those words would have merit .
In a game where Tribble feedback gets ignored time and again, and the Nerf bat is the tool of the day ... , I'm sorry, but I don't think we have any recourse left .
I understand the need to look for the "bad guys" . If in your eyes the sigs are making the players fit that role then you're welcome to that opinion .
But I also understand taking responsibility .
And Taco's pretty art can't hide all the bad things that came with DR, and I don't envy his place in our situation .
I'm sure he'd work even harder if he could fix the issues in that list .
Unfortunately for us all, none of the issues with DR are Art related .
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
none of which couldn't have been added to the old system, all the new system did was add doffs to crafting which makes doffs unavailable for missions, and making the use dilithium in it more of a pain becuase you need rare mats now.
Epic is over rated I'd rather just spend a relatively small amount of dilithium (and that was before fleet mines) on fleet gear and upgrade that.
And at some point you end up selling it dirt cheap.
Simple just factor how much the doff needed which is pretty much going to be the most expensive thing, and then if that doesn't do it add all the rare components you have to buy.
Really its easier to craft and sell the components on the exchange as you probably make more than crafting the whole item.
Ya, no kidding.
Which is why everyone (both sides) should stop being insulting.
Wha? Where did I say we needed more feedback about DR? What I've been saying is that the signatures that are so prevalent right now are not providing anything useful. I'm not saying there aren't useful threads.
Well, I explained this IN the quote you quoted, but that whole line was directly in response to this quote: "If the Devs can't handle criticism (often expressed through irony, sarcasm, hyperboles etc.) they shouldn't develop an online game."
I'm not saying we shouldn't interact, or take feedback, or visit the forums. The forums ARE a valuable source of information for us (despite what people think.) I'm saying that MY job is not interacting with people on the forums.
i.e. "If the Devs can't handle the criticism (of the forums)" I will just go back to doing my day job.
(Clearly, I'm not there yet.)
I'm afraid I don't. . .
Again, the "Don't include the forums or players in general" comment was about including you in early discussions of upcoming content. That doesn't mean that the posts here have no bearing on what content we make, or how we make things. It means that interaction is silent. We absorb information from the forums, and then produce content that has been influenced by that information. As I have said time, and time again. That is only one factor in deciding what we work on and where we go. The forums are A factor, not THE factor.
See, THOSE are what your signatures should be talking about. Not simply stating that you are displeased. Express WHAT you're displeased about, and maybe even how you think it could be addressed.
See, these problems have been listed over and over again in the forums and ignored. I'll consider changing my forum sig if someone can increase the size of the sig. I would like to be able to fit ALL the problems inside the sig. Yes, it's going to be huge.
Pretty sure. Like a good 98% sure.
That doesn't make it 'not feedback'.
When it's ready. I'd prefer devs to work on their own time tables and take their time with ensuring issues are fixed right the first time instead of being fixed quickly, because that is usually when we see fixed things not so fixed as previously indicated.
Patience is a virtue.
It is counter productive and does little to contribute to the conversation. I pointed this out once it gained speed, and just shrugged my shoulders when it became evident nobody cared what I had to say about it.
The only thing to celebrate is as Tacofangs put it, celebrating another bridge to burn. People want Cryptic to communicate with them, but then they create these disparaging signatures which foster hostility and resentment.
They accomplish the exact opposite of what these signatures reportedly are meant to address.
So you're demoralized. I get demoralized too sometimes. I'll stop playing the game for a while. I'll stop visiting the forums for a while. Then I'll come back, roll up my sleeves, and try to get something productive done.
Sometimes Cryptic improves my morale, sometimes they don't. I can't win every battle with Cryptic, but I also haven't lost every battle.
If I truly believed they didn't listen to me or even acted on what I had to say from time to time, you would not see me on the forums at all. It simply would not be worth my time to communicate. It would be a waste of energy. It would be a waste of thoughtfulness that I can easily apply to other games I play.
But I haven't reached the same conclusion as you have. If I had, things would be different.
I don't think of the other people in those kinds of terms. I don't see things in black-and-white like "good guys" and "bad guys". I believe people exist on a spectrum, so I tend not to give into the mental desire to fall into polarizing "us vs. them" mentality.
People with these signatures sometimes have very good points, and even the people who don't seem to bring any sanity or constructive feedback to the table most of the time? Well, sometimes are right every once in a while.
Like STO, I give each poster a chance to show what they can bring to the forums on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I don't.
Just like I expect people to disagree with me sometimes. No person (whether they're at Cryptic or a player) has a flawless record.
That isn't to say Tacofangs doesn't come across art-related issues at all in his line of work. Those ESD shuttle bay threads were interesting for a time.
What about the many posts that aren't insulting at all? If someone posts something insulting, that person just gave you a reason to ignore his post. But what about the many detailed threads about what people feel is wrong about the direction that STO is heading?
So, what about these useful threads? Have these threads effected change in the direction of the game? Is there an ongoing discussion between Cryptic and the players on how and why some changes were made and other changes were not?
Then pass along a message to those people whose job is to consider feedback, those people whose job is to design systems in the game, and those whose job is to make decisions about the direction of the game.
Just what is "THE factor"? Profitability? Profitability in the very short term, while sacrificing long term growth? Profitability to the exclusion of everything else?
How long ago was Delta Rising released? Almost three months now? Have there been any real changes that benefit players?
Change to the rate of experience gain?
Change to the amount of experience awarded through missions?
Change to the cost of R&D (dilithium, specific duty officers, rare and very rare materials)?
Change to the cost of upgrading (dilithium, rare and very rare materials, chance of rarity upgrade)?
Change to the rewards from completing queued PvE missions?
Change to the added failure objectives in Advanced PvE missions?
Change to the reduced energy credit value of items?
Do you only see those signatures and nothing else? Many players have expressed what they have been displeased about. Many players have suggested changes or alternatives. Hell, even some have suggested on other ways to monetize the game, which seems incredibly counter-intuitive to me, but these posts do exist. These signatures exist because players feel that they have exhausted their options on trying to start a discussion on what and how things can change in the game they love to the benefit of all those involved.
Hey, guess what, a discussion has been started.
We're going to need a bigger signature block.
That's at the heart of much of the discontent here. I would suggest that the dev team needs to be much more forthright about what feedback they're taking to heart and how that's influencing the direction they want to take the game.
A broad swath of players feel that Delta Rising is too grindy, that it's too unfriendly to alts, that it killed PUGging for all but a handful of PvE queues, that its nerfs have done more harm than good, etc. So when the communications from the dev team are always about how awesome DR is and never about the problems the game faces and how we're going to resolve them together, people are going to feel like they're not being listened to.
but what if i went into burger king and ordered fries . paid for them and moved down the line to pick up window. after waiting 2 years i still dont get my fries.
in this case im refering to the the KDF costume slots that were bought and paid for but have never worked sure they show up in the window but you cant edit them in any way shape or form. but the `1st 4 slot work fine .
lol yea! If I was Taco and had the skill and access to the game I would of taken some of these peoples toons and every time they log on they appear at whatever faction zone. Example.. FED They would appear tied to a pole blind folded. Then players can phaser them. Every shot takes away a item they have. In the end they go vapor and toon is deleted lol
Here is the irony... After people played through "Delta Rising", many players explained everything in the forums. During the first few months of "Delta Rising", Geko and a few others used podcasts to deflect the negative feedback.
Now, you are acting as though you don't understand?
*shrugs*
Here is why...
First, "Star Trek: Online - Season Five, Six, and Seven" made the gaming experience casual. As a result of not feeling pressured, players, such as myself, would spend a boatload of money on zen. Once Cryptic started to add micro- and macro-transactions, players started to feel 'pushed' into buying something. People now feel as though they are forced into buying zen, so they can bypass the slave system (aka- the grind).
Second, if you pay attention to how the industry is changing, the players are finally seeing the flaw behind 'the grinding' experience. While some grinding is good for passing time, "Star Trek: Online's" obsessive layers of grinding mechanics is daunting. Other words, "Star Trek: Online" now has way-way-way too many grinding mechanics. Cryptic has managed to turn everything into a reputation system. R&D, Fleet holdings, reputation system, item upgrades, duty officers, etc... Way-way-way too many grinds.
Third, players want to make progress steadily and casually. When you combined timegates, a light reward system, and heavy resource requirements together, many players don't feel fulfilled from playing the game. Unless you come up with a meaningful 'daily' reward, (something awesome to be obtained and 'used' after two to three hours of fun), I don't see how people will stick around.
Fourth, players do not want their purchases to lose value. Once the tier 5 and fleet ships became underpowered, due to the introduction of level 60, players lost a whole lot of money and progress. Spending $25-$30 on an item is very expensive. Upon making the $25-$30 purchases under powered, as a result of adding level 60, the strings of trust between many players and Cryptic had been severed. Also, progressing from level 50 to 60 takes way-way too long. Upon getting one avatar to level 58, I ended up walking away from "Star Trek: Online".
Fifth, players are willing to pay into the system, for as long as they are getting something meaningful. If all they are getting is 40 gold coins, people will most likely play an entirely different game. Nerfing or thinning out the reward system (or, stretching the goal line) has scared many pc-players away.
Sixth, the daily calendar events are gone. When there were scheduled daily events, the game felt like a daily 'Star Trek' episode. Players were signing in at certain time periods, so they can work on events together. "Star Trek: Online" felt 'live'.
Seventh, the Fleetbases, embassies, and mines have thinned out the playerbase. When people were hanging around the Omega office, players were congregating in one location. Your player population is way too thinned out.
Eighth, the auto-fail feature in 'advanced' stfs is horrible. Since new players are forced to play advanced stfs, due to a low population interest in norms, the auto-failure feature is making it an annoyance to play.
Out of everything I have mentioned, the most important thing to take away is: 'obsessive grinding', 'heavy resource requirements', 'low reward systems', 'slow progression', 'multiple-currencies', 'nerfing content', 'repetitive mission play', and 'under-powering already purchase content' sucks.
"Star Trek: Online" went from 'cool' to 'suckage' due to a long string of missteps.
...and, that is why I uninstalled "Star Trek: Online".
You can win me back over; however, you have to earn it this time around.
*points at useless duty officer upgrade*
Ditch it.
Instead of wasting everyone's time, I would just add them to the duty officer training store.
Done......
That's clever. I like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT9BeGNnCqw
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