Divide et Empera or what it's called is also terrible. It really needs a rewrite. If the idea was that the Undine mind-manipulated us - I think the Romulans have a far better mission on mind screws. I am not saying the basic plot line needs to be totally changed - but there need to be hints on what is going on.
That wasn't mind manipulation as much as it was simple infiltration and following orders. Orders that really weren't much of a surprise given the nature of Starfleet and the Federation...nothing one wouldn't have expected. Then surprise...it was actually an Undine infiltrator. So how much of everything else that's been done - just to what depths has the Federation and Starfleet been infiltrated - where's Section 31 when you need them!!!
Like many others have said, Divide Et Impera and Second Star To The Right. There are lots of missions I dislike because they're buggy or have some logic holes or obnoxious pathing problems or drag on and on and on and on, but those two missions genuinely bother me.
when i was doing this mission, i didnt care that i was beating that fed half to death for the codes. nothing about captain coolaidsworth elicited any sympathy. he was just another brainwashed, stuffed shirt fed officer, commanding an invasion force, on a crusade to spread feddie gospel.
i wanted him dead along with that hubris and snide pageant show of convenient morality that gets mouthed by feds, when its convenient for them to spit self serving platitudes.
I respect your opinion, even if I may not agree with it.
Undine Advance. I've blocked the specific missions from my memory, but the idiocy of the premise is sufficient to make that entire arc...
sigh.
"We're going in to make nice with these guys, who're the reason we're at war in the first place...REALLY? is the High Council on DRUGS??"
I did it ONCE.
second place for worst would be "Divide Et Impera" and that's because of incredibly shoddy writing and a total lack of the "Rule of Natural Consequences" attached to it, but the whole Romulan Mystery arc is kind of unsupportable from a Starfleet perspective, given when it's supposed to be occurring and what's supposed to be happening while it's occurring (the whole Klingon/Federation war thing). Throughout that arc, you're committing acts of war against a neutral while engaged in a war on another front.
Yes, you heard it right, "Acts of War". Sharien's swords, Divide Et Impera, interfering in the civil war (several times), throughout it, as a Starfleet Officer you're violating the Prime Directive at minimum, and interfering in someone else's internal conflicts.
basically, you're committing acts of war ranging from minor, to major, including an outright attack on a sovereign power-which is justification for them to declare war, and then...
Divide Et Impera caps it with an atrocity.
I'm sorry, but compared to beating an enemy commander until he turns over the access codes, welll...He was leading an attack force, we were already at war, and I'm in the KDF, who're supposed to be nasty customers.
KDF has one mission, Fed has a whole arc where you're essentially being a dirty, war-starting TRIBBLE.
Fluid Dynamics is pretty bad from KDF side, yeah.
From Fed side...
Admiral T'nae (quest giver for the Romulan Mystery arc) is a bloodthirsty, psychopathic Blood Knight who makes Unit designation Three look like Mr. Rogers. The fact that ANYONE is obeying this LUNATIC, who makes Janeway at her worst look like Winnie the Pooh, is absolutely ludicrous.
And Divide et Impera is just a mess.
Have to disagree with you on the torture scene. According to most interpretations of Klingon honor, killing an unarmed man is highly dishonorable, especially the way it's done. I mean, look at how fast D'ghor was thrown out in "The House of Quark"...
Klingons aren't NICE, sure. But that scene is just a forced Villain Ball, as someone said above. It's disgusting.
That's what I meant by being forced to carry the Idiot Ball, Patrick. At some point, probably after scanning all those cargo containers and finding nothing but humanitarian supplies, my captain should have at least had the option of stopping short and ordering my boffs to take the Admiral into custody on charges of committing war crimes. That could trigger the closing cutscene/Undine fight right there, and avoid my captain being remarkably stupid.
I mean, it's pretty clear that T'Nae is a racist b-word who hates Romulans with a passion totally unseemly for a Vulcan, but what's my excuse for being so quickly and completely subverted by the Undine? Especially if I have the Stubborn trait?
Admiral T'nae (quest giver for the Romulan Mystery arc) is a bloodthirsty, psychopathic Blood Knight who makes Unit designation Three look like Mr. Rogers. The fact that ANYONE is obeying this LUNATIC, who makes Janeway at her worst look like Winnie the Pooh, is absolutely ludicrous.
Still haven't seen anybody provide conclusive evidence that she's anything but a (somewhat justified*) racist. And she apologized for that.
* Kestral mentioned in an interview with The Foundry Roundtable that, on top of historical Romulan predations on Vulcans in particular, T'Nae was on one of the Starfleet ships that Nero hit right after Hobus. Offering a helping hand and pulling back a bloody stump would sour anyone.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Still haven't seen anybody provide conclusive evidence that she's anything but a (somewhat justified) racist. And she apologized for that.
She ordered a serving military officer to take xir clearly-marked ship into a neutral power's space in the middle of a war to nuke the hell out of a high-security shipyard. Yes, the Tal'Shiar were working with Borg tech, but...that's a Shiar ih'Saeihr Rihan shipyard, in a Shiar system, deep in Shiar space.
You use Section 31 ghost assets or fob it off on the Republic in that situation (assuming the Republic's formed by that point). Alternatively, sneak the intel to Obisek with a few "adjustments".
As-is, it's a massively idiotic move and tantamount to a declaration of war.
In "Preemptive Strike", she orders a task force to the Romulan capital planet--then sends the PC with an invasion fleet when the Romulans rightfully detain the task force. The planet's orbital defenses are nuked and the planet invaded by Starfleet forces. The PC discovers that the Romulans have caught a Villain Ball and are going to use subspace weapons to take Vulcan, but T'nae DID NOT KNOW THIS when she sent either force.
She apparently sends ships like the USS Nobel into Romulan space with some regularity, a clear violation of whatever's left of the Treaty of Algeron.
And that's not even getting into the racism she displays at the Khitomer conference.
She's NOT the kind of person who should be stationed on the Romulan border. It's only by writer fiat that the Federation wasn't invaded by the Romulan Empire as well as the Klingons--and as weak as the Empire is even at the start of the game, it's still likely enough to turn the tide.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,687Community Moderator
edited December 2014
Divide Et Impera - BLINDLY following orders even after discovering evidence that contradicts the "Intel" provided. We've seen Undine manipulation (Undine Cooper TRIBBLE with Tuvok) but that became a clear case that was explained later. Zelle... NO evidence of her manipulating anyone, even the player character. Just giving out orders and then revealing herself at the end with no follow up.
My characters should have been able to go "WTF were you smoking Admiral? There's nothing here!" instead of "Yes sir. Keep digging! How high should I jump?"
It needs to be cleaned up for sure. As it is... that mission has a decently sized Plot Hole. The Foundry made sequel does help to close that hole, but the fact remains not everyone is going to play a foundry mission.
As to people complaining about T'nae... it is possible she has her reasons for not trusting Romulans. The fact we don't know those reasons could open the door for future character development... if Cryptic decides to actually do it.
Another thing... is where the STFs now fit in. I can see one new connection via the revamped Borg arc as Captain Rebecca Simmons is in command of the Venture, but the character model doesn't quite look like the Borg version in Infected ground. And how did she get to Starbase 82 from Fluidic Space? Also... Kitomer ground was supposed to take place about the same time as the original tutorial if I remember correctly. Doesn't quite fit in with the new one now...
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Yeah, you need to reread that mission, along with rereading the background material. The Klingons are doing the invading; the DeWitt's task force is attempting to recapture a Federation starbase. And the only reason J'mpok didn't send you after Earth is because it's too heavily defended.
Don't delude yourself: the Klingons picked that fight. Just like they picked the whole damn stupid war when they decided Korvat would be a fun place to do some ethnic cleansing.
Thank you for not excusing the Klingons for what they did. Yes, they were right about the Undine but their sanctimonious excuses for war and mad conquest? They were just using it as an excuse to grab territory and give their people enemies to go after so they can have their "glory" in combat. How are these not villains again?
Some of our fanfic writers have created more nuance (though they have still not made fans of the Klingons out of me), but going strictly by in-game canon there isn't even a slight appearance of freedom of choice, to have to weigh what really is or is not honorable. When it comes to the in-game Klingons, Ezri had it right. At least in the Masterverse there is more thought given and even if some of the characters remain unlikable they are NOT the types of moustache-twirling villains from the game and in many cases there is evidence of thought even if you don't like what they did.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
It might be more fitting to challenge the Captain to a duel and if he loses, he begs for mercy and offers the codes. That would make him a terrible Captain, not worthy of the uniform...
My KDF toon would have wanted a duel as well. Though we could at least save the captain's dignity at the end of the duel by showing that he is clearly not lucid at the end and no longer cognizant that he is addressing the player and not his own crew, when he gives the codes...it would be tragic but Hollingsworth would have gone down after an honorable fight and could be remembered as a worthy opponent slain on the field of battle.
Divide et Empera or what it's called is also terrible. It really needs a rewrite. If the idea was that the Undine mind-manipulated us - I think the Romulans have a far better mission on mind screws. I am not saying the basic plot line needs to be totally changed - but there need to be hints on what is going on.
Agreed--that would help to show more clues that there is mental manipulation. Which would still mean I cannot play it with my characters but as a mission, it would make it more solid.
As far as my toons go, completing a mission with a toon does not make it canon for them. It is only canon where it makes sense. For example, I do imagine Admiral Berat as having been involved in the True Way arc and retaking of DS9 during the 2800 incident if not leading the effort. In the Masterverse there is a starbase in the Argolis Cluster and it would make sense to stage the recapture mission from 75-Tau. But there is no real reason for him to have been on some of the other fronts. Alyosha gets more detached deployments but is still not everywhere the player toon is even if I play a mission with him. In some cases there are Foundry missions that are part of a toon's canon.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Yeah, "Divide et Impera" is one of the few times in Star Trek where a main character could've been legally (not morally, legally) justified in disobeying a direct order. If the order is illegal, such as, oh, being ordered to commit murder, you are required to disregard it.
when i was doing this mission, i didnt care that i was beating that fed half to death for the codes. nothing about captain coolaidsworth elicited any sympathy. he was just another brainwashed, stuffed shirt fed officer, commanding an invasion force, on a crusade to spread feddie gospel.
i wanted him dead along with that hubris and snide pageant show of convenient morality that gets mouthed by feds, when its convenient for them to spit self serving platitudes.
I think you'd like Eleya. There's a very good reason I modeled her more on Sisko and Kirk than on Picard. I don't buy into the Federation self-hype any more than you do, and neither does she. While the Federation was in its Self-Serving Picard Platitudes Period (tm), her people were busy dying by the f**king millions under a military occupation the Federation wouldn't lift a finger to stop because they had high-minded ideals and other such nonsense.
She follows the Prime Directive in her career as a Starfleet officer because it's the law, not because she thinks its a good idea.
She ordered a serving military officer to take xir clearly-marked ship into a neutral power's space in the middle of a war to nuke the hell out of a high-security shipyard. Yes, the Tal'Shiar were working with Borg tech, but...that's a Shiar ih'Saeihr Rihan shipyard, in a Shiar system, deep in Shiar space.
You use Section 31 ghost assets or fob it off on the Republic in that situation (assuming the Republic's formed by that point). Alternatively, sneak the intel to Obisek with a few "adjustments".
As-is, it's a massively idiotic move and tantamount to a declaration of war.
In "Preemptive Strike", she orders a task force to the Romulan capital planet--then sends the PC with an invasion fleet when the Romulans rightfully detain the task force. The planet's orbital defenses are nuked and the planet invaded by Starfleet forces. The PC discovers that the Romulans have caught a Villain Ball and are going to use subspace weapons to take Vulcan, but T'nae DID NOT KNOW THIS when she sent either force.
She apparently sends ships like the USS Nobel into Romulan space with some regularity, a clear violation of whatever's left of the Treaty of Algeron.
And that's not even getting into the racism she displays at the Khitomer conference.
She's NOT the kind of person who should be stationed on the Romulan border. It's only by writer fiat that the Federation wasn't invaded by the Romulan Empire as well as the Klingons--and as weak as the Empire is even at the start of the game, it's still likely enough to turn the tide.
Leaving aside the racism argument which I already conceded and explained, did it occur to you that T'Nae is probably under orders herself from higher up in the chain of command, and that as a four-star admiral she probably has access to intelligence sources that a mere OF-5* doesn't have the need-to-know and/or security clearance to access?
I'll grant sending her to Khitomer was stupid personality-wise, but you could say the same about sending that moronic incompetent Jiro Sugihara, well, anywhere. Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the only reason he's an ambassador in the first place is because he's TRIBBLE somebody on the Federation Council. The Feds have a bit of a knack for brain-dead staffing decisions in this game.
* By minimum levels the Romulan arc is supposed to be started at the middle of the Commander levels, though we all know how weird the leveling curve is in STO.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I think you'd like Eleya. There's a very good reason I modeled her more on Sisko and Kirk than on Picard. I don't buy into the Federation self-hype any more than you do, and neither does she. While the Federation was in its Self-Serving Picard Platitudes Period (tm), her people were busy dying by the f**king millions under a military occupation the Federation wouldn't lift a finger to stop because they had high-minded ideals and other such nonsense.
She follows the Prime Directive in her career as a Starfleet officer because it's the law, not because she thinks its a good idea.
Oy. Watch seasons 3 and later of TNG. The show grows its beard.
And someday compare "Paradise" to the final arc of DS9. Same basic idea.
Leaving aside the racism argument which I already conceded and explained, did it occur to you that T'Nae is probably under orders herself from higher up in the chain of command, and that as a four-star admiral she probably has access to intelligence sources that a mere OF-5* doesn't have the need-to-know and/or security clearance to access?
I'll grant sending her to Khitomer was stupid personality-wise, but you could say the same about sending that moronic incompetent Jiro Sugihara, well, anywhere. Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the only reason he's an ambassador in the first place is because he's TRIBBLE somebody on the Federation Council. The Feds have a bit of a knack for brain-dead staffing decisions in this game.
* By minimum levels the Romulan arc is supposed to be started at the middle of the Commander levels, though we all know how weird the leveling curve is in STO.
OK, Suighara I can justify as Okeg losing his head and throwing that idiot off to the boonies so that he can't drive the President's brains out through his ear-holes. T'nae?
Even if she has a mental-trauma justification for her racism, (a) it's racism, and therefore not OK, and (b) she has a job to do, and she shouldn't be letting her problems affect her job performance.
Plus, she should've gotten counseling; not doing so is illogical.
Finally, if you're Frankie Drake and you have intel that indicates that the Romulans are f*cking around with Borg tech, would you REALLY have Admiral Ripper send some rube to blow it all up, or would use a stolen warbird to stage a suicide attack? One is an easy justification for war on the Federation, the other just screws over some random Romulan colony that you aren't paid to care about.
Oy. Watch seasons 3 and later of TNG. The show grows its beard.
I know. They still don't do anything concrete about Bajor, or Turkana IV for that matter. They'd rather ignore those kinds of sticky problems until they go away on their own so they don't have to get their hands dirty cleaning them up.
The Prime Directive's an excuse for moral cowardice, nothing more.
OK, Suighara I can justify as Okeg losing his head and throwing that idiot off to the boonies so that he can't drive the President's brains out through his ear-holes.
Last time I looked, the President of the United States was responsible for appointing ambassadors in the first place, and as presidential appointees they are also subject to being fired by the President. Given how so much of the Federation is the United States IN SPACE!, I'd find it hard to believe if Okeg didn't have the same level of authority.
Even if she has a mental-trauma justification for her racism, (a) it's racism, and therefore not OK, and (b) she has a job to do, and she shouldn't be letting her problems affect her job performance.
*coughing that sounds like "D'Trel", digs for Robitussin*
It's hard not to let those kinds of problems affect your job performance.
Finally, if you're Frankie Drake and you have intel that indicates that the Romulans are f*cking around with Borg tech, would you REALLY have Admiral Ripper send some rube to blow it all up, or would use a stolen warbird to stage a suicide attack? One is an easy justification for war on the Federation, the other just screws over some random Romulan colony that you aren't paid to care about.
I never said Section 31 was her source; in fact I'm willing to bet that T'Nae was as much of a dupe in "Under the Cover of Night" as the PC was. More likely she's getting her data from Starfleet Intelligence double agents and undercovers and ELINT.
Also, factor in who's running the Star Empire at that point in time. Sela's a clinical psychopath and she hates the Federation probably more than T'Nae hates the Rihanh, and she's now the dictator of the Shiar, and she's in bed with Hakeev's merry band of nutjobs. Logically the Federation would be keeping a very close eye on what the Romulans are up to so they don't have to react to their TRIBBLE on Federation territory and risk Federation civilians.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I know. They still don't do anything concrete about Bajor, or Turkana IV for that matter. They'd rather ignore those kinds of sticky problems until they go away on their own so they don't have to get their hands dirty cleaning them up.
The Prime Directive's an excuse for moral cowardice, nothing more.
I agree, but tbh I think Picard couldn't risk his career after Best of Both Worlds. Look at all the TRIBBLE he got from Satie that was accepted, after all...And Nechayev didn't trust him, either.
I dunno. I think that in TNG it was assumed that someone else was dealing with stuff, or everyone had just given up like on Turkana IV. In DS9, it was assumed that nobody was doing anything unless it was shown or mentioned onscreen.
Last time I looked, the President of the United States was responsible for appointing ambassadors in the first place, and as presidential appointees they are also subject to being fired by the President. Given how so much of the Federation is the United States IN SPACE!, I'd find it hard to believe if Okeg didn't have the same level of authority.
*coughing that sounds like "D'Trel", digs for Robitussin*
It's hard not to let those kinds of problems affect your job performance.
1. Yeah, I know. That's why D'trel's been sent out to the Delta Quadrant boonies. In fact, if the Republic had more ships, she'd be out there indefinitely. Also, she's got a therapist to tell her "Sir, that's insane", and a red line to the fleet's supreme commander who can tell her not to f*ck anything up. The Federation, with dozens if not hundreds of times as many worlds as the Republic, and a fleet around a hundred times the size, minimum, has no excuse for a mentally-unstable officer who after twenty-odd years still blames an entire species from one confirmed psychopath who hurt her while attacking that species, despite having the Federation's entire psychotherapy setup at her disposal, in a command capacity.
D'trel's excuse is that she was a refugee with no resources for multiple decades and then part of a state that's got a fraction of the UFP's resources. Also, she didn't try to attack the Empire's capital using some rube.
2. D'trel has a therapist actively monitoring her on a daily basis. T'nae, as far as we know, does not. Furthermore, while D'trel's homicidal rage can be easily used against her, she has the brains and self-control
I never said Section 31 was her source; in fact I'm willing to bet that T'Nae was as much of a dupe in "Under the Cover of Night" as the PC was. More likely she's getting her data from Starfleet Intelligence double agents and undercovers and ELINT.
Also, factor in who's running the Star Empire at that point in time. Sela's a clinical psychopath and she hates the Federation probably more than T'Nae hates the Rihanh, and she's now the dictator of the Shiar, and she's in bed with Hakeev's merry band of nutjobs. Logically the Federation would be keeping a very close eye on what the Romulans are up to so they don't have to react to their TRIBBLE on Federation territory and risk Federation civilians.
Yes, but the methods that T'nae uses are outright stupid.
She has SI and almost certainly S31 on her side. She shouldn't use some rookie Captain to go attack the Empire's capital, she should use operatives who won't be traced back to the UFP and start a war in 20 seconds.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,687Community Moderator
edited December 2014
The way I see it, T'nae was using available resources, ie the player and player's ship, and by the time of the raid on Brea III, enough evidence was collected to authorize said raid with Starfleet Command. You're kinda discounting the leadup to that mission worffan. Learning about the Remans and the Tal Shiar. There probably wasn't enough time for T'nae to summon a fleet, hence why the player is sent.
Undercover work takes time to set up. The events at Brea III negated the option of setting up covert action. Also... the Remans were making a move that wasn't covert, so that kinda negated the covert option as well.
The whole FE centering around the Remans ending with Cutting the Cord was gathering intel on the situation, and figuring out what to do about it. In this case Admiral T'nae chose the more direct approach to deal with the threat of Hakeev and the Tal Shiar.
And if T'nae's crazy, then I guess the KDF guy who gives the same missions is just as crazy.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The way I see it, T'nae was using available resources, ie the player and player's ship, and by the time of the raid on Brea III, enough evidence was collected to authorize said raid with Starfleet Command. You're kinda discounting the leadup to that mission worffan. Learning about the Remans and the Tal Shiar. There probably wasn't enough time for T'nae to summon a fleet, hence why the player is sent.
Undercover work takes time to set up. The events at Brea III negated the option of setting up covert action. Also... the Remans were making a move that wasn't covert, so that kinda negated the covert option as well.
The whole FE centering around the Remans ending with Cutting the Cord was gathering intel on the situation, and figuring out what to do about it. In this case Admiral T'nae chose the more direct approach to deal with the threat of Hakeev and the Tal Shiar.
And if T'nae's crazy, then I guess the KDF guy who gives the same missions is just as crazy.
Not talking about Brea III. Talking about Rator III. And S'harien.
Brea III was a different case from Rator III. At Rator III, T'nae showed no indication of having knowledge of the Imperial attack plans until after the were already stopped. At Brea III, the Empire was already fragmented, the Tal'Shiar were already half-broken from the Empire, and the Galae s'Shiar Rihan had suffered another crippling defeat thanks to Admiral Ripper. On top of that, the Republic was just getting strong and the Empire was hemorrhaging worlds.
In "Preemptive Strike", the Grand Fleet is still powerful, the Empire is unified, and the Tal'Shiar has Sela's full support. By "Cutting the Cord", the Empire is fragmented, the Grand Fleet is at something like half its strength and without its most powerful ships, and the Tal'Shiar is off the reservation.
Also, in "Cutting the Cord", there was solid intel pointing to an imminent extinction-level event on a galactic scale. In "Preemptive Strike, as far as we know, there was nothing. Just T'nae sending a ship into Romulan space apparently on a lark.
Essentially, in T'nae's case she had no reason at ALL to use obvious assets, and her actions posed a massive risk to the Federation's national security. In the Hakeev case, the ONLY viable option was overwhelming force, and there was not a serious of a threat to national security.
In case #1 it was attacking North Korea with China at its back. Case #2 is attacking North Korea as China stands by and says "as long as you pay us and don't cross the border into China, go ahead and wipe that arrogant little pr*ck off the map".
No, "Preemptive Strike" was based on hard data. Admittedly, it was hard data acquired by other ships she had sent into the Empire without casus belli (like the poor Nobel), but data there was - it was mentioned in the episode writeup.
No, "Preemptive Strike" was based on hard data. Admittedly, it was hard data acquired by other ships she had sent into the Empire without casus belli (like the poor Nobel), but data there was - it was mentioned in the episode writeup.
It was? Where? IIRC you only get the hard data once you're on Rator III getting the task force back.
I think one the the areas where the Devs have missed out on is writing one the Featured Episodes where two of the factions are in direct conflict and then the player gets to experience the same mission from two opposing viewpoints.
I kinda wish they'd give this idea a try. Yes, I know it would probably be expensive. Yes, I know it would definitely be difficult. Yes, I know some people would not play both sides of such a mission. Yes, I know copy/paste is an acceptable and cheap way of fleshing out content. And so on. These do not reduce my desire for such a mission, however. I have some unused Foundry Missions and I am intrigued enough by the idea I may just give it a go on my own.
But I really think such a thing would be a great deal of fun to play. One of the things I miss the most about my old Pen and Paper wargames is the ability to do this with minimal effort. And if there is one thing I strongly feel this game needs right now it is a large helping of fun. Monetize the fun if you must, but please put some fun into the game. It sorely needs it.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,687Community Moderator
edited December 2014
So I got Brea and Rator mixed up. I meant Rator. Only one I could remember at the time was Brea for some reason. But my point still stands.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I just got to this point (as in, in the last few minutes) with my new toon, James R. Church. And in the mission immediately prior, you had to save a Federation researcher, Dr. S'larin, from an attack by a Romulan fleet on the Sierra II research facility, less than a lightyear away from Starbase 39-Sierra. Then you had to distribute mines around a new transwarp hub, and fend off attacks by Romulan ships while doing so and then while waiting for the mines to warm up. (I didn't know mines had to warm up...)
So there's the "in" for the Undine to pressure T'Nae into ordering her into Romulan space in the very next mission. It's not quite so out of the blue as it seems at the time. I mean, yeah, T'Nae's a terrible racist, but that's not all there is to it.
On the other tentacle, "Divide et Impera" still sucks, because I still have to carry the Idiot Ball and they don't explain why.
So I got Brea and Rator mixed up. I meant Rator. Only one I could remember at the time was Brea for some reason. But my point still stands.
Not really. As I said, the Rator strike was BEFORE the Republic started up and the Tal'Shiar went completely off the reservation. Stopping their evil plot there, with the might of the Grand Fleet at their backs? Stupid. Better to just let the Romulans know that you know they're coming with stepped-up border patrols and moving ships away from the Cardassian dependent territories and up towards the Romulan border, instead of attacking the Imperial capital and engaging the bulk of the Grand Fleet with what amounts to a large raiding group.
Whatever way you look at it, T'nae responded to a problem that needed a scalpel with Thor's hammer. Then used said hammer in a ridiculously dumb way.
I just got to this point (as in, in the last few minutes) with my new toon, James R. Church. And in the mission immediately prior, you had to save a Federation researcher, Dr. S'larin, from an attack by a Romulan fleet on the Sierra II research facility, less than a lightyear away from Starbase 39-Sierra. Then you had to distribute mines around a new transwarp hub, and fend off attacks by Romulan ships while doing so and then while waiting for the mines to warm up. (I didn't know mines had to warm up...)
So there's the "in" for the Undine to pressure T'Nae into ordering her into Romulan space in the very next mission. It's not quite so out of the blue as it seems at the time. I mean, yeah, T'Nae's a terrible racist, but that's not all there is to it.
On the other tentacle, "Divide et Impera" still sucks, because I still have to carry the Idiot Ball and they don't explain why.
Well, the whole arc is now basically the oldest set of unrevamped missions still in the game, and...it shows. It really, really shows. Every writer has a few early miscues, especially when dealing with a massive arc on a short timescale...and frankly, that's what the pre-revamp Fed missions, Commander-level KDF missions, Cardassian missions, and especially the Romulan Mystery missions, read as. Kestrel had a gigantic workload on a very short timescale, and she hadn't quite gotten a feel for it yet. I don't hold any of it against her.
Well, I'm still p*ssed off about DIE, of course, but that's because it's the "Threshold" of STO. Idiot Balls left and right, nonsensical dialogue, railroad plot, mission objectives are all "shoot this shoot that shoot some more of these"...it's like everything everyone complains about in one bundle.
You don't have to kill Captain Hollingsworth. You have the option of beaming back to your ship once he surrenders the codes after you've slapped him around enough. Yes, presumably he dies when you subsequently use the hulk of the DeWitt for target practice, but you don't need to kill him in his ready room after your "enhanced interrogation" session. Or at least you didn't have to the last two times I ran it, leveling Harding and Sway (both since LoR.) I remember Ssharki killed him back in June of 2012, but I don't remember whether or not he had to.
Here's the thing about Klingon Honor though - it's not so simple as "killing an unarmed man in cold blood = dishonor." In this case, leaving Hollingsworth alive would have been even more dishonorable.
Hollingsworth had already dishonored himself (from a Klingon perspective) by failing his attack, and allowing his ship and himself to be captured, and then you (KDF Captain) compound his dishonor by forcing him to divulge strategic information (which will lead to the deaths of many more Feds before this mission ends.)
Hollingsworth's fate is in your hands at this point. Your options are to take him as a prisoner back to Qo'noS where the best he can hope for is toiling out his days in abject misery on Rura Penthe (dying a dishonorable death which would bring you no honor,) or killing him yourself.
There are three ways you could go about the latter option:
1) as gulberat and others have suggested, giving him a weapon and challenging him to Hay'chu', allowing him to duel you to the death. Ritualistically, honor would be served. . But how honorable is this option, really? He is a Human, you are a Klingon/Gorn/Nausicaan/Orion/whatever. By default you are stronger than he is, and your training makes you unquestionably more skilled in close-quarters combat, especially with blade weapons. Add to this the fact that you just beat him to within an inch of his life. He probably couldn't even lift a weapon, let alone use it to fend you off. . All you would be doing is giving him a prolonged execution, wrapped in a veneer of honorable tradition. . To some Klingon warriors, this would be acceptable. To others, it would mock the ritual of the Hay'chu' and cheapen the act of challenging a man to face your blade, when your opponent could not hope to defeat you. It would be more dishonorable than just shooting him in the face.
2) you could, as the mission allows, return to your ship and destroy the DeWitt, allowing Captain Hollingsworth to go down with his ship. This preserves the honor of both parties, to some degree. . You (or your tactical officer) would still have the blood of an unarmed man on your hands. And you would have denied Hollingsworth the honor of facing his executioner. But it would still be a warrior's death for him, and give you distance from the act itself.
3) you could do as Ssharki chose, and kill him yourself. On the surface, this would seem to be most dishonorable action you could take at this point. But for certain interpretations of honor, this would actually be simultaneously the most honorable thing you can do. . Here is why: in killing Hollingsworth yourself, you are taking his dishonor from him and claiming it as your own. To a Klingon, meeting death at the hands of your enemy is inherently honorable and all but assures you a place in Sto'vo'kor. And killing an unarmed man, even an enemy, is inherently a dishonorable act. . Some Klingons would not be troubled greatly by this. Most stereotypical Orions an Nausicaans wouldn't care much either (excepting for personal feelings.) Most Klingons, and to me, most Gorn, would find this whole act very distasteful, however. Torturing the prisoner, then subsequently executing him no matter how they do it, would not sit well with them. . Ssharki, in my mind, chose to acknowledge his dishonor, and further dishonor himself to restore Hollingsworth's honor. (This mirrors the act that first won him favor with the Klingons in my story "The Last Candle Burns") His honor would demand that he assume this debt.
Honor is a very personal thing, and it goes far beyond cultural definitions or even the ideas of "right" and "wrong." One Klingon may find honorable what his neighbor would find dishonorable. Gorn, Nausicaans, Orions and the rest have their own cultural as well as personal interpretations. There are very few cases so cut and dried where you'll get any and every KDF captain to say "this was a dishonorable act." And in some cases, personal honor may demand that a captain dishonor himself further.
And then of course, alongside Honor there is Duty. An officer of the KDF must, at times, either put his honor aside to carry out his duty, or forfeit his duty to uphold his honor. As with Humans and with Starfleet, this comes down to the situation and to the individual choice. And when there are no right answers, one must pick the lesser of two (or more) evils.
Understand, in my view, torturing Hollingsworth and then killing him was wrong. But if you follow your choices as a KDF officer, and consider both the gains and the alternatives, it can be viewed as justifiable, or at least understandable.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
the vault...it was a good mission, it was just a headache learning to fly shuttle effectively back then, we often teamed up to help one another when it was new. but now patrol missions that give little to no story or xp, that u have to keep repeating after u finish the mission they are spawned from...the vault suddenly dosnt seem to tedious now
What Lies Beneath scares the bejeezus out of me, and every time I make a new alt I swear I'm never gonna play it. Despite that, I still end up playing it. (It isn't a bad mission by any means, though there are a few bugs, but it's just so darned creepy and unsettling.)
The Obisek arc that begins with Frozen. Frozen itself is fine, but Coliseum, The Vault, etc, are extremely wearing.
Badlands is so incredibly tedious. I'm pretty sure you can get your Kill accolade for Cardassians just from playing through this one once.
I actually like Of Bajor, I have to say. Probably because it's relatively painless and getting the Jemmy armour for my crew is a good investment.
Facility 4028. Again, not exactly bad, but just gruelling.
Pretty much any mission where I feel like all I'm doing is senselessly slaughtering gets to me.
Installation 18 with those DAMN ALARMS!
All That Glitters pissed me off when the Talaxian chef was killed by Gaul.
All That Glitters pissed me off when the Talaxian chef was killed by Gaul.
I LOVED that bit! I was like, "Hey, Gaul, I know that you're a genocidal psychopath, but if you're going to kill these lazy d*cks, I'll help you and then let you go afterwards, because they're annoying as f*ck".
I mean, after running around the station to get spices for that numb-nuts? I wanted to shoot him myself. What sort of blithering incompetent made THAT loser a chef??????
Comments
That wasn't mind manipulation as much as it was simple infiltration and following orders. Orders that really weren't much of a surprise given the nature of Starfleet and the Federation...nothing one wouldn't have expected. Then surprise...it was actually an Undine infiltrator. So how much of everything else that's been done - just to what depths has the Federation and Starfleet been infiltrated - where's Section 31 when you need them!!!
imho-ofc
I respect your opinion, even if I may not agree with it.
Fluid Dynamics is pretty bad from KDF side, yeah.
From Fed side...
Admiral T'nae (quest giver for the Romulan Mystery arc) is a bloodthirsty, psychopathic Blood Knight who makes Unit designation Three look like Mr. Rogers. The fact that ANYONE is obeying this LUNATIC, who makes Janeway at her worst look like Winnie the Pooh, is absolutely ludicrous.
And Divide et Impera is just a mess.
Have to disagree with you on the torture scene. According to most interpretations of Klingon honor, killing an unarmed man is highly dishonorable, especially the way it's done. I mean, look at how fast D'ghor was thrown out in "The House of Quark"...
Klingons aren't NICE, sure. But that scene is just a forced Villain Ball, as someone said above. It's disgusting.
I mean, it's pretty clear that T'Nae is a racist b-word who hates Romulans with a passion totally unseemly for a Vulcan, but what's my excuse for being so quickly and completely subverted by the Undine? Especially if I have the Stubborn trait?
Still haven't seen anybody provide conclusive evidence that she's anything but a (somewhat justified*) racist. And she apologized for that.
* Kestral mentioned in an interview with The Foundry Roundtable that, on top of historical Romulan predations on Vulcans in particular, T'Nae was on one of the Starfleet ships that Nero hit right after Hobus. Offering a helping hand and pulling back a bloody stump would sour anyone.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
She ordered a serving military officer to take xir clearly-marked ship into a neutral power's space in the middle of a war to nuke the hell out of a high-security shipyard. Yes, the Tal'Shiar were working with Borg tech, but...that's a Shiar ih'Saeihr Rihan shipyard, in a Shiar system, deep in Shiar space.
You use Section 31 ghost assets or fob it off on the Republic in that situation (assuming the Republic's formed by that point). Alternatively, sneak the intel to Obisek with a few "adjustments".
As-is, it's a massively idiotic move and tantamount to a declaration of war.
In "Preemptive Strike", she orders a task force to the Romulan capital planet--then sends the PC with an invasion fleet when the Romulans rightfully detain the task force. The planet's orbital defenses are nuked and the planet invaded by Starfleet forces. The PC discovers that the Romulans have caught a Villain Ball and are going to use subspace weapons to take Vulcan, but T'nae DID NOT KNOW THIS when she sent either force.
She apparently sends ships like the USS Nobel into Romulan space with some regularity, a clear violation of whatever's left of the Treaty of Algeron.
And that's not even getting into the racism she displays at the Khitomer conference.
She's NOT the kind of person who should be stationed on the Romulan border. It's only by writer fiat that the Federation wasn't invaded by the Romulan Empire as well as the Klingons--and as weak as the Empire is even at the start of the game, it's still likely enough to turn the tide.
My characters should have been able to go "WTF were you smoking Admiral? There's nothing here!" instead of "Yes sir. Keep digging! How high should I jump?"
It needs to be cleaned up for sure. As it is... that mission has a decently sized Plot Hole. The Foundry made sequel does help to close that hole, but the fact remains not everyone is going to play a foundry mission.
As to people complaining about T'nae... it is possible she has her reasons for not trusting Romulans. The fact we don't know those reasons could open the door for future character development... if Cryptic decides to actually do it.
Another thing... is where the STFs now fit in. I can see one new connection via the revamped Borg arc as Captain Rebecca Simmons is in command of the Venture, but the character model doesn't quite look like the Borg version in Infected ground. And how did she get to Starbase 82 from Fluidic Space? Also... Kitomer ground was supposed to take place about the same time as the original tutorial if I remember correctly. Doesn't quite fit in with the new one now...
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Thank you for not excusing the Klingons for what they did. Yes, they were right about the Undine but their sanctimonious excuses for war and mad conquest? They were just using it as an excuse to grab territory and give their people enemies to go after so they can have their "glory" in combat. How are these not villains again?
Some of our fanfic writers have created more nuance (though they have still not made fans of the Klingons out of me), but going strictly by in-game canon there isn't even a slight appearance of freedom of choice, to have to weigh what really is or is not honorable. When it comes to the in-game Klingons, Ezri had it right. At least in the Masterverse there is more thought given and even if some of the characters remain unlikable they are NOT the types of moustache-twirling villains from the game and in many cases there is evidence of thought even if you don't like what they did.
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My KDF toon would have wanted a duel as well. Though we could at least save the captain's dignity at the end of the duel by showing that he is clearly not lucid at the end and no longer cognizant that he is addressing the player and not his own crew, when he gives the codes...it would be tragic but Hollingsworth would have gone down after an honorable fight and could be remembered as a worthy opponent slain on the field of battle.
Agreed--that would help to show more clues that there is mental manipulation. Which would still mean I cannot play it with my characters but as a mission, it would make it more solid.
As far as my toons go, completing a mission with a toon does not make it canon for them. It is only canon where it makes sense. For example, I do imagine Admiral Berat as having been involved in the True Way arc and retaking of DS9 during the 2800 incident if not leading the effort. In the Masterverse there is a starbase in the Argolis Cluster and it would make sense to stage the recapture mission from 75-Tau. But there is no real reason for him to have been on some of the other fronts. Alyosha gets more detached deployments but is still not everywhere the player toon is even if I play a mission with him. In some cases there are Foundry missions that are part of a toon's canon.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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I think you'd like Eleya. There's a very good reason I modeled her more on Sisko and Kirk than on Picard. I don't buy into the Federation self-hype any more than you do, and neither does she. While the Federation was in its Self-Serving Picard Platitudes Period (tm), her people were busy dying by the f**king millions under a military occupation the Federation wouldn't lift a finger to stop because they had high-minded ideals and other such nonsense.
She follows the Prime Directive in her career as a Starfleet officer because it's the law, not because she thinks its a good idea.
Leaving aside the racism argument which I already conceded and explained, did it occur to you that T'Nae is probably under orders herself from higher up in the chain of command, and that as a four-star admiral she probably has access to intelligence sources that a mere OF-5* doesn't have the need-to-know and/or security clearance to access?
I'll grant sending her to Khitomer was stupid personality-wise, but you could say the same about sending that moronic incompetent Jiro Sugihara, well, anywhere. Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the only reason he's an ambassador in the first place is because he's TRIBBLE somebody on the Federation Council. The Feds have a bit of a knack for brain-dead staffing decisions in this game.
* By minimum levels the Romulan arc is supposed to be started at the middle of the Commander levels, though we all know how weird the leveling curve is in STO.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And someday compare "Paradise" to the final arc of DS9. Same basic idea.
OK, Suighara I can justify as Okeg losing his head and throwing that idiot off to the boonies so that he can't drive the President's brains out through his ear-holes. T'nae?
Even if she has a mental-trauma justification for her racism, (a) it's racism, and therefore not OK, and (b) she has a job to do, and she shouldn't be letting her problems affect her job performance.
Plus, she should've gotten counseling; not doing so is illogical.
Finally, if you're Frankie Drake and you have intel that indicates that the Romulans are f*cking around with Borg tech, would you REALLY have Admiral Ripper send some rube to blow it all up, or would use a stolen warbird to stage a suicide attack? One is an easy justification for war on the Federation, the other just screws over some random Romulan colony that you aren't paid to care about.
The Prime Directive's an excuse for moral cowardice, nothing more.
Last time I looked, the President of the United States was responsible for appointing ambassadors in the first place, and as presidential appointees they are also subject to being fired by the President. Given how so much of the Federation is the United States IN SPACE!, I'd find it hard to believe if Okeg didn't have the same level of authority.
*coughing that sounds like "D'Trel", digs for Robitussin*
It's hard not to let those kinds of problems affect your job performance.
Explain Solok, as in the blatant racist with two Pike Medals. And he didn't even have the excuse of hating a traditional enemy.
I never said Section 31 was her source; in fact I'm willing to bet that T'Nae was as much of a dupe in "Under the Cover of Night" as the PC was. More likely she's getting her data from Starfleet Intelligence double agents and undercovers and ELINT.
Also, factor in who's running the Star Empire at that point in time. Sela's a clinical psychopath and she hates the Federation probably more than T'Nae hates the Rihanh, and she's now the dictator of the Shiar, and she's in bed with Hakeev's merry band of nutjobs. Logically the Federation would be keeping a very close eye on what the Romulans are up to so they don't have to react to their TRIBBLE on Federation territory and risk Federation civilians.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I dunno. I think that in TNG it was assumed that someone else was dealing with stuff, or everyone had just given up like on Turkana IV. In DS9, it was assumed that nobody was doing anything unless it was shown or mentioned onscreen. Probably a councilor's son, I think. 1. Yeah, I know. That's why D'trel's been sent out to the Delta Quadrant boonies. In fact, if the Republic had more ships, she'd be out there indefinitely. Also, she's got a therapist to tell her "Sir, that's insane", and a red line to the fleet's supreme commander who can tell her not to f*ck anything up. The Federation, with dozens if not hundreds of times as many worlds as the Republic, and a fleet around a hundred times the size, minimum, has no excuse for a mentally-unstable officer who after twenty-odd years still blames an entire species from one confirmed psychopath who hurt her while attacking that species, despite having the Federation's entire psychotherapy setup at her disposal, in a command capacity.
D'trel's excuse is that she was a refugee with no resources for multiple decades and then part of a state that's got a fraction of the UFP's resources. Also, she didn't try to attack the Empire's capital using some rube.
2. D'trel has a therapist actively monitoring her on a daily basis. T'nae, as far as we know, does not. Furthermore, while D'trel's homicidal rage can be easily used against her, she has the brains and self-control His dad was f*cking the President's sister. Or something like that. DS9 showed that nepotism was alive and well in the UFP. Yes, but the methods that T'nae uses are outright stupid.
She has SI and almost certainly S31 on her side. She shouldn't use some rookie Captain to go attack the Empire's capital, she should use operatives who won't be traced back to the UFP and start a war in 20 seconds.
Undercover work takes time to set up. The events at Brea III negated the option of setting up covert action. Also... the Remans were making a move that wasn't covert, so that kinda negated the covert option as well.
The whole FE centering around the Remans ending with Cutting the Cord was gathering intel on the situation, and figuring out what to do about it. In this case Admiral T'nae chose the more direct approach to deal with the threat of Hakeev and the Tal Shiar.
And if T'nae's crazy, then I guess the KDF guy who gives the same missions is just as crazy.
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Not talking about Brea III. Talking about Rator III. And S'harien.
Brea III was a different case from Rator III. At Rator III, T'nae showed no indication of having knowledge of the Imperial attack plans until after the were already stopped. At Brea III, the Empire was already fragmented, the Tal'Shiar were already half-broken from the Empire, and the Galae s'Shiar Rihan had suffered another crippling defeat thanks to Admiral Ripper. On top of that, the Republic was just getting strong and the Empire was hemorrhaging worlds.
In "Preemptive Strike", the Grand Fleet is still powerful, the Empire is unified, and the Tal'Shiar has Sela's full support. By "Cutting the Cord", the Empire is fragmented, the Grand Fleet is at something like half its strength and without its most powerful ships, and the Tal'Shiar is off the reservation.
Also, in "Cutting the Cord", there was solid intel pointing to an imminent extinction-level event on a galactic scale. In "Preemptive Strike, as far as we know, there was nothing. Just T'nae sending a ship into Romulan space apparently on a lark.
Essentially, in T'nae's case she had no reason at ALL to use obvious assets, and her actions posed a massive risk to the Federation's national security. In the Hakeev case, the ONLY viable option was overwhelming force, and there was not a serious of a threat to national security.
In case #1 it was attacking North Korea with China at its back. Case #2 is attacking North Korea as China stands by and says "as long as you pay us and don't cross the border into China, go ahead and wipe that arrogant little pr*ck off the map".
It was? Where? IIRC you only get the hard data once you're on Rator III getting the task force back.
I kinda wish they'd give this idea a try. Yes, I know it would probably be expensive. Yes, I know it would definitely be difficult. Yes, I know some people would not play both sides of such a mission. Yes, I know copy/paste is an acceptable and cheap way of fleshing out content. And so on. These do not reduce my desire for such a mission, however. I have some unused Foundry Missions and I am intrigued enough by the idea I may just give it a go on my own.
But I really think such a thing would be a great deal of fun to play. One of the things I miss the most about my old Pen and Paper wargames is the ability to do this with minimal effort. And if there is one thing I strongly feel this game needs right now it is a large helping of fun. Monetize the fun if you must, but please put some fun into the game. It sorely needs it.
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So there's the "in" for the Undine to pressure T'Nae into ordering her into Romulan space in the very next mission. It's not quite so out of the blue as it seems at the time. I mean, yeah, T'Nae's a terrible racist, but that's not all there is to it.
On the other tentacle, "Divide et Impera" still sucks, because I still have to carry the Idiot Ball and they don't explain why.
Not really. As I said, the Rator strike was BEFORE the Republic started up and the Tal'Shiar went completely off the reservation. Stopping their evil plot there, with the might of the Grand Fleet at their backs? Stupid. Better to just let the Romulans know that you know they're coming with stepped-up border patrols and moving ships away from the Cardassian dependent territories and up towards the Romulan border, instead of attacking the Imperial capital and engaging the bulk of the Grand Fleet with what amounts to a large raiding group.
Whatever way you look at it, T'nae responded to a problem that needed a scalpel with Thor's hammer. Then used said hammer in a ridiculously dumb way.
Well, the whole arc is now basically the oldest set of unrevamped missions still in the game, and...it shows. It really, really shows. Every writer has a few early miscues, especially when dealing with a massive arc on a short timescale...and frankly, that's what the pre-revamp Fed missions, Commander-level KDF missions, Cardassian missions, and especially the Romulan Mystery missions, read as. Kestrel had a gigantic workload on a very short timescale, and she hadn't quite gotten a feel for it yet. I don't hold any of it against her.
Well, I'm still p*ssed off about DIE, of course, but that's because it's the "Threshold" of STO. Idiot Balls left and right, nonsensical dialogue, railroad plot, mission objectives are all "shoot this shoot that shoot some more of these"...it's like everything everyone complains about in one bundle.
You don't have to kill Captain Hollingsworth. You have the option of beaming back to your ship once he surrenders the codes after you've slapped him around enough. Yes, presumably he dies when you subsequently use the hulk of the DeWitt for target practice, but you don't need to kill him in his ready room after your "enhanced interrogation" session. Or at least you didn't have to the last two times I ran it, leveling Harding and Sway (both since LoR.) I remember Ssharki killed him back in June of 2012, but I don't remember whether or not he had to.
Here's the thing about Klingon Honor though - it's not so simple as "killing an unarmed man in cold blood = dishonor." In this case, leaving Hollingsworth alive would have been even more dishonorable.
Hollingsworth had already dishonored himself (from a Klingon perspective) by failing his attack, and allowing his ship and himself to be captured, and then you (KDF Captain) compound his dishonor by forcing him to divulge strategic information (which will lead to the deaths of many more Feds before this mission ends.)
Hollingsworth's fate is in your hands at this point. Your options are to take him as a prisoner back to Qo'noS where the best he can hope for is toiling out his days in abject misery on Rura Penthe (dying a dishonorable death which would bring you no honor,) or killing him yourself.
There are three ways you could go about the latter option:
1) as gulberat and others have suggested, giving him a weapon and challenging him to Hay'chu', allowing him to duel you to the death. Ritualistically, honor would be served.
. But how honorable is this option, really? He is a Human, you are a Klingon/Gorn/Nausicaan/Orion/whatever. By default you are stronger than he is, and your training makes you unquestionably more skilled in close-quarters combat, especially with blade weapons. Add to this the fact that you just beat him to within an inch of his life. He probably couldn't even lift a weapon, let alone use it to fend you off.
. All you would be doing is giving him a prolonged execution, wrapped in a veneer of honorable tradition.
. To some Klingon warriors, this would be acceptable. To others, it would mock the ritual of the Hay'chu' and cheapen the act of challenging a man to face your blade, when your opponent could not hope to defeat you. It would be more dishonorable than just shooting him in the face.
2) you could, as the mission allows, return to your ship and destroy the DeWitt, allowing Captain Hollingsworth to go down with his ship. This preserves the honor of both parties, to some degree.
. You (or your tactical officer) would still have the blood of an unarmed man on your hands. And you would have denied Hollingsworth the honor of facing his executioner. But it would still be a warrior's death for him, and give you distance from the act itself.
3) you could do as Ssharki chose, and kill him yourself. On the surface, this would seem to be most dishonorable action you could take at this point. But for certain interpretations of honor, this would actually be simultaneously the most honorable thing you can do.
. Here is why: in killing Hollingsworth yourself, you are taking his dishonor from him and claiming it as your own. To a Klingon, meeting death at the hands of your enemy is inherently honorable and all but assures you a place in Sto'vo'kor. And killing an unarmed man, even an enemy, is inherently a dishonorable act.
. Some Klingons would not be troubled greatly by this. Most stereotypical Orions an Nausicaans wouldn't care much either (excepting for personal feelings.) Most Klingons, and to me, most Gorn, would find this whole act very distasteful, however. Torturing the prisoner, then subsequently executing him no matter how they do it, would not sit well with them.
. Ssharki, in my mind, chose to acknowledge his dishonor, and further dishonor himself to restore Hollingsworth's honor. (This mirrors the act that first won him favor with the Klingons in my story "The Last Candle Burns") His honor would demand that he assume this debt.
Honor is a very personal thing, and it goes far beyond cultural definitions or even the ideas of "right" and "wrong." One Klingon may find honorable what his neighbor would find dishonorable. Gorn, Nausicaans, Orions and the rest have their own cultural as well as personal interpretations. There are very few cases so cut and dried where you'll get any and every KDF captain to say "this was a dishonorable act." And in some cases, personal honor may demand that a captain dishonor himself further.
And then of course, alongside Honor there is Duty. An officer of the KDF must, at times, either put his honor aside to carry out his duty, or forfeit his duty to uphold his honor. As with Humans and with Starfleet, this comes down to the situation and to the individual choice. And when there are no right answers, one must pick the lesser of two (or more) evils.
Understand, in my view, torturing Hollingsworth and then killing him was wrong. But if you follow your choices as a KDF officer, and consider both the gains and the alternatives, it can be viewed as justifiable, or at least understandable.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
What Lies Beneath scares the bejeezus out of me, and every time I make a new alt I swear I'm never gonna play it. Despite that, I still end up playing it. (It isn't a bad mission by any means, though there are a few bugs, but it's just so darned creepy and unsettling.)
The Obisek arc that begins with Frozen. Frozen itself is fine, but Coliseum, The Vault, etc, are extremely wearing.
Badlands is so incredibly tedious. I'm pretty sure you can get your Kill accolade for Cardassians just from playing through this one once.
I actually like Of Bajor, I have to say. Probably because it's relatively painless and getting the Jemmy armour for my crew is a good investment.
Facility 4028. Again, not exactly bad, but just gruelling.
Pretty much any mission where I feel like all I'm doing is senselessly slaughtering gets to me.
Installation 18 with those DAMN ALARMS!
All That Glitters pissed me off when the Talaxian chef was killed by Gaul.
I LOVED that bit! I was like, "Hey, Gaul, I know that you're a genocidal psychopath, but if you're going to kill these lazy d*cks, I'll help you and then let you go afterwards, because they're annoying as f*ck".
I mean, after running around the station to get spices for that numb-nuts? I wanted to shoot him myself. What sort of blithering incompetent made THAT loser a chef??????