you can complete all the current elite content in mk12 EQ
why make 13 n14 stronger?
ah right to post buff pve content to make it unplayable to mk12 EQ to firce ppl to upgrade
makes sense
See, the problem you've got going there is that you can do something you expect everybody else can do it. But that's simply not the case...we've got years of powercreep showing that, cause the content never got harder - but they kept boosting power over and over again. It allows folks that couldn't do it to do it.
All the paranoid and delusional stuff is kind of a trip...when the obvious reason is the same reason that they've been doing it for years. You could take somebody's 20-30k build and drop the majority of the playerbase in it, and they're unlikely even to see 5k. This is an extremely casual game aimed at Star Trek fans...not Star Trek gamers. If it were aimed at Star Trek gamers, lol, there would be a Hell of a lot more complaints.
The instant I saw this change I knew this was nothing more than ANOTHER contrived way to force players to UPGRADE their EXISTING purchases for the xNUM time, and then some excuse announced to justify the "upping" of the difficulty of all content to force our hand.
I don't like this business model. It leaves me with no choice. I might as well be a hamster on a wheel.
Everything is designed to force players into a narrowing conclusion of spending money. "Free" is really only "free" to unlock. The really cost comes later when you locked into the system.
Cryptic killed the EC economy much like economic hit-men that go into parts of the world to reek havoc on foreign competition.
I have not spent a dime on this game in over 1 1/2 years and I will NEVER again. FUverymuch.
I don't even want to think about how much I've dropped money-wise in 4+ years. All I do know is I'm not dropping a dollar more until/unless I see some movement on rolling back some of these nerfs/extreme upgrade costs. Metrics be damned.
btw this was nothing to get excited about. I wrote down some numbers pre and post for 13 and 14 and the change is minute.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
btw this was nothing to get excited about. I wrote down some numbers pre and post for 13 and 14 and the change is minute.
I've been at work and only messed with the game post-patch long enough to see neither the skillbar nor the Breen ship issue had been fixed. I haven't been able to check out if the "buff" was consequential or not. I'm keeping an open mind but the 2nd hand info Im hearing so far is that this change is barely noticeable. I'm curious however if this frees up a tac slot or two without sacrificing too much dps. Honestly, Im glad some at Cryptic are engaging more the last few days but I can't help but to be cautious with things said.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
So, the one thing that actually didn't need buffing in this game, and they buffed it? People have been saying for a while now that one of the issues with DR was how build variety unfriendly the game is, and this is the response?
I'm guessing this is going to be some petty attempt at trying to justify the upgrade costs in the future, which is pretty sad to be honest.
There's no hope....
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
So, the one thing that actually didn't need buffing in this game, and they buffed it? People have been saying for a while now that one of the issues with DR was how build variety unfriendly the game is, and this is the response?
I'm guessing this is going to be some petty attempt at trying to justify the upgrade costs in the future, which is pretty sad to be honest.
There's no hope....
Oh please, one of the appeals to the game was how easy it was prior to DR.
This is just a little to bring that back.
Don't forget this is a video game, games are fun and it's so easy to upgrade all your stuff yourself.
The only people in our fleet who complained about the costs are the ones who could not wait.
Thanks goodness only a small percent of players vist the forums.
Oh please, one of the appeals to the game was how easy it was prior to DR.
This is just a little to bring that back.
Don't forget this is a video game, games are fun and it's so easy to upgrade all your stuff yourself.
The only people in our fleet who complained about the costs are the ones who could not wait.
Thanks goodness only a small percent of players vist the forums.
Yeah I completely agree it easy to upgrade gear. Especially when you play right into cryptic hands and dump hundreds of dollars/pounds into the system. Cryptic have essentially turned the entire game into a DPS race. Which isn't all bad. Since it will force people to up their game some what.
Oh please, one of the appeals to the game was how easy it was prior to DR.
This is just a little to bring that back.
Don't forget this is a video game, games are fun and it's so easy to upgrade all your stuff yourself.
The only people in our fleet who complained about the costs are the ones who could not wait.
Thanks goodness only a small percent of players vist the forums.
If you're really so daft as to not realise how much of a rip-off it is, then please be my guest and do just that :rolleyes:
Seriously though, space balance is way out of whack, and the issues causing it are a lot more deep rooted than just upping the damage output on everything. One prime example is that there is a hard-cap on how much damage resistance you can have, yet damage does not, so all that ends up happening is damage output goes spiralling out of control while defence measures are at a wall that can't be pushed any where near as much.
That's just one example, but there are others I could bring up. Truthfully they're going to have to add mechanics to the game to get around this issue if they're going to restore balance, either that or re-examine what they define as the objectives in missions, because the damage output issue wouldn't be as bad if it weren't for missions failing due to time-gates, but again it is just another issue in what is an almighty mess.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
While I appreciate that communication I can't help but think it's a bs explanation. More likely not enough people are utilizing the super awesome upgrade system so they decided to make the gap between the MK XII gear that everyone has and MK IV even higher in some weak attempt to encourage us to utilize this dilithium sink/lottery. I'm not bothering with it until they reduce the cost significantly.
I posted this in another thread and figured I'd post it here too. If Geko reads it, don't blame me...blame Riccardo (it was his thread I posted it in originally). :P
124 Weapon Power: 148%
(note, it's unlikely exactly 124 - thus it's not going to be exactly 148%)
(can see this with the Space numbers being off a similar amount)
There are no Bonus boosts in play, just the Strength boosts and the Weapon Power boost.
Mk XIII appears to add ~40% Strength.
Mk XIV appears to add ~70% Strength.
Mk XII to Mk XIV appears to add ~110% Strength.
So going from Mk XII to Mk XIII is like adding [Dmg]x8 to the weapon.
Going from Mk XIII to Mk XIV is like adding [Dmg]x14 to the weapon.
Going from Mk XII to Mk XIV is like adding [Dmg]x22 to the weapon.
Wee bit more than the ~60% combined which was suggested by Geko's post which would have been like adding [Dmg]x12 to the weapon going from Mk XII to Mk XIV.
While I appreciate that communication I can't help but think it's a bs explanation. More likely not enough people are utilizing the super awesome upgrade system so they decided to make the gap between the MK XII gear that everyone has and MK IV even higher in some weak attempt to encourage us to utilize this dilithium sink/lottery. I'm not bothering with it until they reduce the cost significantly.
Right on mate. I've upgraded a few items of ground kit on my main fed toon and thats about it. Until they reduce the dilthium costs and the rarity ugrade lottery associated with it.
So are folks seeing numbers they'd expect based on Geko's original post...or...are they seeing something different?
Im still seeing the numbers i expect .... because its the number of items i intend to upgrade using this system remains 0 items on 0 out of 19 characters.
Untill they improve the whole system to make it more attractive, thise whole upgrading thing is still just a "rich boys toys" thing for me.
The costs involved simply dont measure up to the gains.
As it is right now, it is only viable for me to rank up crafting on my chars for the perks, and long term improvements , but all the upgrading has zero interest because of cost.
As it is right now, i get way more benefit from putting the EC and Dil into reputation/fleet items across all my characters, than spending any of it on a single toon ,resources required to upgrade a single toon to mk14 are enough to outfit many toons with just mk12 items, therefore that is more effecient, economical and fun.
For me and quite some people i know of, some "small" changes need to be done to improve the mentality towards the upgrade system.
1. Lesser lottery on quality upgrades , at least the mk upgrades have a "fixxed cost", even tho many considere the cost to be too high at this time.
2. Fix the effect a crafting level has on the upgrade system, logically it would make alot of sense for someone that has a high level in shield crafting, to get a bonus in the upgrade system itself, either a reduction in upgrade costs, or an improvement in quality ratings.
Blacksmith logic ... if the blacksmith has a high level in horseshoe crafting, that blacksmith would also do a much better repair/upgrade job on horseshoes than a blacksmith that has a low level of horseshoe crafting.
3. Too much clicking and sliding all over the place .... 300 clicks and slides to make a beam array and all its components yourself ... this is Star Trek Online, a story driven game with teamplay ... if i was interested in clicking and sliding for "fun"... i would be playing Candy Crush or something other mind-numbing RSI inducing junker ....
So no ... nothing has changed for me (and many many many players like me) with this patch.
Oh please, one of the appeals to the game was how easy it was prior to DR.
This is just a little to bring that back.
Don't forget this is a video game, games are fun and it's so easy to upgrade all your stuff yourself.
The only people in our fleet who complained about the costs are the ones who could not wait.
Thanks goodness only a small percent of players vist the forums.
Yes, because spending a lot of ECs, and thousands of dil on a single space weapon, only to have an horrible mod in the end because it's entirely RNG is a good system.
Even with it being better than the original post suggests?
Pretty much yes. The only way to get the good modifiers for weapons is to use lockbox ones opened on a lvl 9 or lower character or use Anti-protons. To upgrade up the MK XII Rep weapons to the required amount AND get the right modifiers is just a waste of Dil and EC.
It's cheaper to just mass buy Phased Biomatter Weapons boxes, unpack them over and over and over until you get the desired weapons with the right mods, then upgrade those with a 1 in 6 chance of getting the right upgrade mod and a 1 in 20 chance of getting the results of those upgraded to Epic level along the way.
If you use AP it's cheaper than Phased Biomatter, but I was using the Lockbox ones as they are preferable to the normals. Can be applied to Elachi, Xindi, or any others really.
For people on a budget just grab Mk II VR Anti-Protons (cheap to make by yourself via R&D) and then start the upgrade grind. It's costs a fortune in Dil and EC and materials, and by the end of it you realise just how much of a waste of time it was.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Pretty much yes. The only way to get the good modifiers for weapons is to use lockbox ones opened on a lvl 9 or lower character or use Anti-protons. To upgrade up the MK XII Rep weapons to the required amount AND get the right modifiers is just a waste of Dil and EC.
It's cheaper to just mass buy Phased Biomatter Weapons boxes, unpack them over and over and over until you get the desired weapons with the right mods, then upgrade those with a 1 in 6 chance of getting the right upgrade mod and a 1 in 20 chance of getting the results of those upgraded to Epic level along the way.
If you use AP it's cheaper than Phased Biomatter, but I was using the Lockbox ones as they are preferable to the normals. Can be applied to Elachi, Xindi, or any others really.
For people on a budget just grab Mk II VR Anti-Protons (cheap to make by yourself via R&D) and then start the upgrade grind. It's costs a fortune in Dil and EC and materials, and by the end of it you realise just how much of a waste of time it was.
But this isn't talking about additional mods - this is just looking at taking a weapon from Mk XII to Mk XIV. Odds aren't really in anybody's favor that a VR Mk XII is going to go UR and TRIBBLE up their mods along the way. Odds are that VR Mk XII's going to be a VR Mk XIV.
And that's what the discussion is about...the boost at Mk XIV. Going from VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIV is adding +110% damage Strength; it's like adding [Dmg]x22 to the weapon - it's a pretty hefty boost, when one considers that the old VR Mk XII Tac Consoles only add +30% Strength.
Doing the upgrade to take something to VR/UR Mk XII to VR/UR Mk XIV (without a change in rarity) for the boost provided...is a pretty nifty looking boost for the cost involved, no?
Yeah, if your VR goes UR and you get a [Dmg] mod instead of [Acc]/[CrtD]/[CrtH]...no doubt there's going to be that feeling of your weapon being turned into vendortrash.
But isn't this more a case of gambling against that VR to UR upgrade happening, in which case the odds are in your favor...to get the benefits of the increase from going Mk XII to Mk XIV?
Folks are writing off this change because of what can happen at UR and the garbage odds of going Gold...but the simplest aspect of this is just going from Mk XII to Mk XIV without that UR bump happening and not worrying about it nor the Gold upgrade after that.
~4.5m EC & 16125 Dil max (no crits) to add [Dmg]x22 to a VR Energy weapon.
Not talking about participating in the R&D crapshoot of mods, not talking about the rarity upgrade crapshoot of mods, not talking about any of that stuff...just the fingers crossed there is no rarity upgrade while taking that Mk XII to Mk XIV.
So, VD, how many weapons have you upgraded because of this?
None. But you seem to be talking it up...why haven't you?
Cause of Geko's original post. What?
His example showed a +60% Strength boost - not the +110% Strength boost it's giving. The value on +110% is different than the value on +60%, and so I'm waiting to see if they nerf it down to +60% or if they leave it at +110%. The "talking it up" is just feeling folks out on what they think about it at +110%. But most folks are talking about everything but the Mk XII to Mk XIV.
The instant I saw this change I knew this was nothing more than ANOTHER contrived way to force players to UPGRADE their EXISTING purchases for the xNUM time, and then some excuse announced to justify the "upping" of the difficulty of all content to force our hand.
I don't like this business model. It leaves me with no choice. I might as well be a hamster on a wheel.
Everything is designed to force players into a narrowing conclusion of spending money. "Free" is really only "free" to unlock. The really cost comes later when you locked into the system.
Cryptic killed the EC economy much like economic hit-men that go into parts of the world to reek havoc on foreign competition.
I have not spent a dime on this game in over 1 1/2 years and I will NEVER again. FUverymuch.
I remember when you used to have a pretty sig pic ... with colors and stuff ... .
... I also remember you berating me on my rants . I'm sorry to see you go down this path ...
Yeah, if your VR goes UR and you get a [Dmg] mod instead of [Acc]/[CrtD]/[CrtH]...no doubt there's going to be that feeling of your weapon being turned into vendortrash.
But isn't this more a case of gambling against that VR to UR upgrade happening, in which case the odds are in your favor...to get the benefits of the increase from going Mk XII to Mk XIV?
Way I see it, even if it gets an extra [Dmg] mod, it's always, well, extra. So, if people thought their VR wep is suddenly vendortrash after the upgrade, then it was also vendortrash, minus [Dmg], before.
Way I see it, even if it gets an extra [Dmg] mod, it's always, well, extra. So, if people thought their VR wep is suddenly vendortrash after the upgrade, then it was also vendortrash, minus [Dmg], before.
Hrmm, see - I despise the RNG angle on the upgrades (as well with crafting in general)...because it's about the relative value.
Is a UR w/ [Dmg] better than a VR w/o [Dmg]...?
Yes, cause you've picked up the 2.5% Strength from going VR to UR and the 5% Strength from the [Dmg] mod itself. It's got 7.5% more Strength than the VR did. It's better than the VR.
However, there was also the chance for [Acc], [CrtD], and [CrtH]...and the odds are pretty favorable that somebody wanted one of those instead of [Dmg].
So, say they had 4 of the weapons they were upgrading. Say they got the mod they wanted on 1 of the weapons. Are they just going to toss the other three weapons? No, they're not likely to do that. Cause it's still better than what they had, right? But they're not going to continue upgrading the three weapons. They'll probably continue with the one, but those other three...nope, not happening. They're off trying to buy the VR versions again so they can try the upgrade again to get the mod they want. What happens with each one they get...what happens to the old weapon...? Vendortrash...
Along the lines of the discussion and what I've been saying, what I'm thinking (depending on the outcome of the boost being what it's supposed to be or they nerf it) is along the following lines:
Taking a VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIV, fingers crossed that it doesn't UR and definitely not trying to UR it after getting it to Mk XIV.
Cause taking a weapon from VR Mk XII to Mk XIV, maybe getting the UR w/ [Dmg] at 13 or 14...would tick me off - ticking me off more if it happened at 14.
A case of gambling that it didn't happen, rather than what would be the natural hoping that it did happen...just because of how bad [Dmg] is in relation to the other mods - much less having the preference between the three remaining mods.
Cause even if they were to bring [Dmg] in line with the other mods as far as the potential desire for it amongst various players like there is for the other three, there's still going to be the issue of the weapon likely being bound and ending up with a mod that another player might want that I don't.
Yeah, that gamble isn't a gamble that I want to take...
...fingers crossed going from VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIV though, if the boost stays the way it is, heh, then yeah - once I've finished upgrading consoles and set pieces I'll look at the weapons and take that gamble that the UR doesn't happen.
Then again, with the freakin' costs on upgrading Rep gear - they might have changed mods to be selectable by then...lol.
Hrmm, see - I despise the RNG angle on the upgrades (as well with crafting in general)...because it's about the relative value.
Is a UR w/ [Dmg] better than a VR w/o [Dmg]...?
Yes, cause you've picked up the 2.5% Strength from going VR to UR and the 5% Strength from the [Dmg] mod itself. It's got 7.5% more Strength than the VR did. It's better than the VR.
However, there was also the chance for [Acc], [CrtD], and [CrtH]...and the odds are pretty favorable that somebody wanted one of those instead of [Dmg].
So, say they had 4 of the weapons they were upgrading. Say they got the mod they wanted on 1 of the weapons. Are they just going to toss the other three weapons? No, they're not likely to do that. Cause it's still better than what they had, right? But they're not going to continue upgrading the three weapons. They'll probably continue with the one, but those other three...nope, not happening. They're off trying to buy the VR versions again so they can try the upgrade again to get the mod they want. What happens with each one they get...what happens to the old weapon...? Vendortrash...
Along the lines of the discussion and what I've been saying, what I'm thinking (depending on the outcome of the boost being what it's supposed to be or they nerf it) is along the following lines:
Taking a VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIV, fingers crossed that it doesn't UR and definitely not trying to UR it after getting it to Mk XIV.
Cause taking a weapon from VR Mk XII to Mk XIV, maybe getting the UR w/ [Dmg] at 13 or 14...would tick me off - ticking me off more if it happened at 14.
A case of gambling that it didn't happen, rather than what would be the natural hoping that it did happen...just because of how bad [Dmg] is in relation to the other mods - much less having the preference between the three remaining mods.
Cause even if they were to bring [Dmg] in line with the other mods as far as the potential desire for it amongst various players like there is for the other three, there's still going to be the issue of the weapon likely being bound and ending up with a mod that another player might want that I don't.
Yeah, that gamble isn't a gamble that I want to take...
...fingers crossed going from VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIV though, if the boost stays the way it is, heh, then yeah - once I've finished upgrading consoles and set pieces I'll look at the weapons and take that gamble that the UR doesn't happen.
Then again, with the freakin' costs on upgrading Rep gear - they might have changed mods to be selectable by then...lol.
Way I see it, even if it gets an extra [Dmg] mod, it's always, well, extra. So, if people thought their VR wep is suddenly vendortrash after the upgrade, then it was also vendortrash, minus [Dmg], before.
Precisely.
Quite frankly, if you have to care about [CrtD]x4 vs [CrtD]x3 [dmg] you are either Felisean and co, or in a Sad Panda/HoBO rematch.
Anyone else? It doesn't matter! White Mk X is OP for PvE, and PvP is practically dead due to the endlessly repeated *** pre-censored bit to save Mod time. ***
In fact, for an overwhelming majority of players you would actually be better off with the [dmg] mod, at typical CrtH and CrtD levels it either adds more or is so close you would never notice a difference.
But oh no, everyone has to have [CrtD]x4 [ac/dm] because that is what the TRIBBLE,TRIBBLE DPS guys use...
But oh no, everyone has to have [CrtD]x4 [ac/dm] because that is what the TRIBBLE,TRIBBLE DPS guys use...
/rant.
Well in this moment [CRTD]X4 and SS3+SS2 is maybe the closest thing to god mode .
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Maybe they should devise a way to strip Mods for another RNG chance, say maybe 500-1k Dilith per chance!
I know, not the best system but, it is better than nothing and, not overboard on cost!
Course with their record, it would ultimately lose the mods and, never work correctly with new ones!
Weapons as Modframes ala Kitframes.
Crystal Mod (to determine damage type)
Universal Mod (for various procs as well as the standard mods)
Standard Mod (for the standard mods, Acc - Dmg - CrtD - CrtH)
With different weapon frames having different numbers of Universal and Standard Mods...as well as special frames that have other innate bonuses.
edit: Crafted weapons could slot the R&D mods in their Standard Mods or the R&D mods could be the innate bonuses on special frames, etc, etc, etc.
Comments
See, the problem you've got going there is that you can do something you expect everybody else can do it. But that's simply not the case...we've got years of powercreep showing that, cause the content never got harder - but they kept boosting power over and over again. It allows folks that couldn't do it to do it.
All the paranoid and delusional stuff is kind of a trip...when the obvious reason is the same reason that they've been doing it for years. You could take somebody's 20-30k build and drop the majority of the playerbase in it, and they're unlikely even to see 5k. This is an extremely casual game aimed at Star Trek fans...not Star Trek gamers. If it were aimed at Star Trek gamers, lol, there would be a Hell of a lot more complaints.
I don't like this business model. It leaves me with no choice. I might as well be a hamster on a wheel.
Everything is designed to force players into a narrowing conclusion of spending money. "Free" is really only "free" to unlock. The really cost comes later when you locked into the system.
Cryptic killed the EC economy much like economic hit-men that go into parts of the world to reek havoc on foreign competition.
I have not spent a dime on this game in over 1 1/2 years and I will NEVER again. FUverymuch.
I really should get that psych degree. I could make a decent living off this forum.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Take note of this folks. Save your money.
Free Tibet!
I've been at work and only messed with the game post-patch long enough to see neither the skillbar nor the Breen ship issue had been fixed. I haven't been able to check out if the "buff" was consequential or not. I'm keeping an open mind but the 2nd hand info Im hearing so far is that this change is barely noticeable. I'm curious however if this frees up a tac slot or two without sacrificing too much dps. Honestly, Im glad some at Cryptic are engaging more the last few days but I can't help but to be cautious with things said.
Level 13 Grav torpedo - 659 to 691 dps = 5%
Level 14 Prot Polaron DBB - 490 to 542 = 10%
Level 14 Beam bank - 377 to 417 = 10%
It's not going to break or change anything.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm guessing this is going to be some petty attempt at trying to justify the upgrade costs in the future, which is pretty sad to be honest.
There's no hope....
Oh please, one of the appeals to the game was how easy it was prior to DR.
This is just a little to bring that back.
Don't forget this is a video game, games are fun and it's so easy to upgrade all your stuff yourself.
The only people in our fleet who complained about the costs are the ones who could not wait.
Thanks goodness only a small percent of players vist the forums.
Yeah I completely agree it easy to upgrade gear. Especially when you play right into cryptic hands and dump hundreds of dollars/pounds into the system. Cryptic have essentially turned the entire game into a DPS race. Which isn't all bad. Since it will force people to up their game some what.
If you're really so daft as to not realise how much of a rip-off it is, then please be my guest and do just that :rolleyes:
Seriously though, space balance is way out of whack, and the issues causing it are a lot more deep rooted than just upping the damage output on everything. One prime example is that there is a hard-cap on how much damage resistance you can have, yet damage does not, so all that ends up happening is damage output goes spiralling out of control while defence measures are at a wall that can't be pushed any where near as much.
That's just one example, but there are others I could bring up. Truthfully they're going to have to add mechanics to the game to get around this issue if they're going to restore balance, either that or re-examine what they define as the objectives in missions, because the damage output issue wouldn't be as bad if it weren't for missions failing due to time-gates, but again it is just another issue in what is an almighty mess.
Right on mate. I've upgraded a few items of ground kit on my main fed toon and thats about it. Until they reduce the dilthium costs and the rarity ugrade lottery associated with it.
Im still seeing the numbers i expect .... because its the number of items i intend to upgrade using this system remains 0 items on 0 out of 19 characters.
Untill they improve the whole system to make it more attractive, thise whole upgrading thing is still just a "rich boys toys" thing for me.
The costs involved simply dont measure up to the gains.
As it is right now, it is only viable for me to rank up crafting on my chars for the perks, and long term improvements , but all the upgrading has zero interest because of cost.
As it is right now, i get way more benefit from putting the EC and Dil into reputation/fleet items across all my characters, than spending any of it on a single toon ,resources required to upgrade a single toon to mk14 are enough to outfit many toons with just mk12 items, therefore that is more effecient, economical and fun.
For me and quite some people i know of, some "small" changes need to be done to improve the mentality towards the upgrade system.
1. Lesser lottery on quality upgrades , at least the mk upgrades have a "fixxed cost", even tho many considere the cost to be too high at this time.
2. Fix the effect a crafting level has on the upgrade system, logically it would make alot of sense for someone that has a high level in shield crafting, to get a bonus in the upgrade system itself, either a reduction in upgrade costs, or an improvement in quality ratings.
Blacksmith logic ... if the blacksmith has a high level in horseshoe crafting, that blacksmith would also do a much better repair/upgrade job on horseshoes than a blacksmith that has a low level of horseshoe crafting.
3. Too much clicking and sliding all over the place .... 300 clicks and slides to make a beam array and all its components yourself ... this is Star Trek Online, a story driven game with teamplay ... if i was interested in clicking and sliding for "fun"... i would be playing Candy Crush or something other mind-numbing RSI inducing junker ....
So no ... nothing has changed for me (and many many many players like me) with this patch.
Even with it being better than the original post suggests?
Pretty much yes. The only way to get the good modifiers for weapons is to use lockbox ones opened on a lvl 9 or lower character or use Anti-protons. To upgrade up the MK XII Rep weapons to the required amount AND get the right modifiers is just a waste of Dil and EC.
It's cheaper to just mass buy Phased Biomatter Weapons boxes, unpack them over and over and over until you get the desired weapons with the right mods, then upgrade those with a 1 in 6 chance of getting the right upgrade mod and a 1 in 20 chance of getting the results of those upgraded to Epic level along the way.
If you use AP it's cheaper than Phased Biomatter, but I was using the Lockbox ones as they are preferable to the normals. Can be applied to Elachi, Xindi, or any others really.
For people on a budget just grab Mk II VR Anti-Protons (cheap to make by yourself via R&D) and then start the upgrade grind. It's costs a fortune in Dil and EC and materials, and by the end of it you realise just how much of a waste of time it was.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
But this isn't talking about additional mods - this is just looking at taking a weapon from Mk XII to Mk XIV. Odds aren't really in anybody's favor that a VR Mk XII is going to go UR and TRIBBLE up their mods along the way. Odds are that VR Mk XII's going to be a VR Mk XIV.
And that's what the discussion is about...the boost at Mk XIV. Going from VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIV is adding +110% damage Strength; it's like adding [Dmg]x22 to the weapon - it's a pretty hefty boost, when one considers that the old VR Mk XII Tac Consoles only add +30% Strength.
Doing the upgrade to take something to VR/UR Mk XII to VR/UR Mk XIV (without a change in rarity) for the boost provided...is a pretty nifty looking boost for the cost involved, no?
Yeah, if your VR goes UR and you get a [Dmg] mod instead of [Acc]/[CrtD]/[CrtH]...no doubt there's going to be that feeling of your weapon being turned into vendortrash.
But isn't this more a case of gambling against that VR to UR upgrade happening, in which case the odds are in your favor...to get the benefits of the increase from going Mk XII to Mk XIV?
Folks are writing off this change because of what can happen at UR and the garbage odds of going Gold...but the simplest aspect of this is just going from Mk XII to Mk XIV without that UR bump happening and not worrying about it nor the Gold upgrade after that.
~4.5m EC & 16125 Dil max (no crits) to add [Dmg]x22 to a VR Energy weapon.
Not talking about participating in the R&D crapshoot of mods, not talking about the rarity upgrade crapshoot of mods, not talking about any of that stuff...just the fingers crossed there is no rarity upgrade while taking that Mk XII to Mk XIV.
So, VD, how many weapons have you upgraded because of this?
None.
But you seem to be talking it up...why haven't you?
Cause of Geko's original post.
What?
His example showed a +60% Strength boost - not the +110% Strength boost it's giving. The value on +110% is different than the value on +60%, and so I'm waiting to see if they nerf it down to +60% or if they leave it at +110%. The "talking it up" is just feeling folks out on what they think about it at +110%. But most folks are talking about everything but the Mk XII to Mk XIV.
I remember when you used to have a pretty sig pic ... with colors and stuff ... .
... I also remember you berating me on my rants . I'm sorry to see you go down this path ...
Way I see it, even if it gets an extra [Dmg] mod, it's always, well, extra. So, if people thought their VR wep is suddenly vendortrash after the upgrade, then it was also vendortrash, minus [Dmg], before.
Hrmm, see - I despise the RNG angle on the upgrades (as well with crafting in general)...because it's about the relative value.
Is a UR w/ [Dmg] better than a VR w/o [Dmg]...?
Yes, cause you've picked up the 2.5% Strength from going VR to UR and the 5% Strength from the [Dmg] mod itself. It's got 7.5% more Strength than the VR did. It's better than the VR.
However, there was also the chance for [Acc], [CrtD], and [CrtH]...and the odds are pretty favorable that somebody wanted one of those instead of [Dmg].
So, say they had 4 of the weapons they were upgrading. Say they got the mod they wanted on 1 of the weapons. Are they just going to toss the other three weapons? No, they're not likely to do that. Cause it's still better than what they had, right? But they're not going to continue upgrading the three weapons. They'll probably continue with the one, but those other three...nope, not happening. They're off trying to buy the VR versions again so they can try the upgrade again to get the mod they want. What happens with each one they get...what happens to the old weapon...? Vendortrash...
Along the lines of the discussion and what I've been saying, what I'm thinking (depending on the outcome of the boost being what it's supposed to be or they nerf it) is along the following lines:
Taking a VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIV, fingers crossed that it doesn't UR and definitely not trying to UR it after getting it to Mk XIV.
Cause taking a weapon from VR Mk XII to Mk XIV, maybe getting the UR w/ [Dmg] at 13 or 14...would tick me off - ticking me off more if it happened at 14.
A case of gambling that it didn't happen, rather than what would be the natural hoping that it did happen...just because of how bad [Dmg] is in relation to the other mods - much less having the preference between the three remaining mods.
Cause even if they were to bring [Dmg] in line with the other mods as far as the potential desire for it amongst various players like there is for the other three, there's still going to be the issue of the weapon likely being bound and ending up with a mod that another player might want that I don't.
Yeah, that gamble isn't a gamble that I want to take...
...fingers crossed going from VR Mk XII to VR Mk XIV though, if the boost stays the way it is, heh, then yeah - once I've finished upgrading consoles and set pieces I'll look at the weapons and take that gamble that the UR doesn't happen.
Then again, with the freakin' costs on upgrading Rep gear - they might have changed mods to be selectable by then...lol.
Your mind, as usual, holds interesting thoughts.
I know, not the best system but, it is better than nothing and, not overboard on cost!
Course with their record, it would ultimately lose the mods and, never work correctly with new ones!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Precisely.
Quite frankly, if you have to care about [CrtD]x4 vs [CrtD]x3 [dmg] you are either Felisean and co, or in a Sad Panda/HoBO rematch.
Anyone else? It doesn't matter! White Mk X is OP for PvE, and PvP is practically dead due to the endlessly repeated *** pre-censored bit to save Mod time. ***
In fact, for an overwhelming majority of players you would actually be better off with the [dmg] mod, at typical CrtH and CrtD levels it either adds more or is so close you would never notice a difference.
But oh no, everyone has to have [CrtD]x4 [ac/dm] because that is what the TRIBBLE,TRIBBLE DPS guys use...
/rant.
Well in this moment [CRTD]X4 and SS3+SS2 is maybe the closest thing to god mode .
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Scrape the SS2. Your Reciprocity Trait brings that 1 single SS3 to global in no time!
Weapons as Modframes ala Kitframes.
Crystal Mod (to determine damage type)
Universal Mod (for various procs as well as the standard mods)
Standard Mod (for the standard mods, Acc - Dmg - CrtD - CrtH)
With different weapon frames having different numbers of Universal and Standard Mods...as well as special frames that have other innate bonuses.
edit: Crafted weapons could slot the R&D mods in their Standard Mods or the R&D mods could be the innate bonuses on special frames, etc, etc, etc.