In all fairness, there was a time when there was NO replay button. As I recall, the community spent a great deal of time prostrating itself before the mighty Cryptic, begging that they add replayability.
Let me just say that I hate the direction this game is going. But for crying out loud, some of the things people are blaming cryptic for are things which the community practically DEMANDED.
Players demanded repetition?
I didn't know this. In which case we deserve what we got.
I've played MMOs for years and I do know the score. I know quests/episodes/whatever are - and need to be (if fun and challenging) - repeatable... and I know 'end-game' is a constant replay of raid/stf/whatever material... yet repeatable shouldn't mean 'required' and anything repeatable has to be high-quality and fun... and rewarding, in terms of stuff but also in terms of time spent.
I'm not averse to level-cap-increases, either... as long as the delivered content fulfils the curve without insisting on mindless grind and patrol-repetition (say).
Nah we demanded equal repetition for everything, because some time ago Mission Content was the only thing, not repeatable ... everything else was ... since we seem to be in full reverse to 2010 (except the good stuff) it shouldn't be long till they turn off Mission Replay again ... :P
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Just listen to him talk about patrols and exp. Listen. They don't square with what is actually going on in-game.
I never liked Geko to begin with, but this is a new low.
Congrats, I guess.
I thought he did a very good job of actually explaining some of the decisions made. I mean he's right isn't he? I didn't come across anything he said that was wrong.
If you play the game on the assumption that you can max out everything for pennies and seconds then you're straight out of luck, but if you play the game to achieve a moderate amount of progress every day then you're doing it right.
You can't enforce a "right" or "wrong" way to play a game but a lot of you approach STO with an unhealthy attitude; STO is almost uniquely generous in what it allows you to do and what it doesn't require from you in order to engage and succeed in all of its content. I mean my MMO background is fairly broad but not exhaustive, so I'd love to be shown examples of other games like STO that are as generous.
Personally I find a lot of the... toxicity from the forum to be so badly misplaced it's hard to feel any sympathy for you guys.
That's what I've been telling them since the first moment they (Cryptic) mentioned their allmighty "metrics". They're just numbers. They lack the human factor, the way people feel about things.
Feelings are subjective. They can't measure them. They can however measure indirect effects - people that feel badly about the game are not playing it, or at least playing it less.
They can measure how long people play, how often they play, how many people play, whether they have old accounts or new accounts playing. They can measure how much Zen people buy.
The human factor is in there - if people don't like it, the numbers are bad, if they like it, they are good.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Instead of fighting, maybe we all can try to agree to disagree. Nobody is going to change anybody's mind here and the arguments become circular, then degrade into a flame-fest.
Feelings are subjective. They can't measure them. They can however measure indirect effects - people that feel badly about the game are not playing it, or at least playing it less.
They can measure how long people play, how often they play, how many people play, whether they have old accounts or new accounts playing. They can measure how much Zen people buy.
The human factor is in there - if people don't like it, the numbers are bad, if they like it, they are good.
Yes, with an robotic attitude like that you can be Geko's assistant. You don't "measure" feelings, you interact with people in order to understand their feelings.
There is a plethora of things their "numbers" won't show. Like for ex. an invested player that played the game for a long time and can't bare to just leave the game yet, blindly hoping that Cryptic may eventually see reason after all. Or entire groups of people that still play because of eachother and friendships, while thinking the game itself sucks in it's current state.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? Yes men and the white knights that brow beat everyone that disagrees with the devs, use personal attacks and get away with it scott free while all dissenting opinions are moderated on the flimsiest of excuses.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? The lead devs insulting the players, treating them as a nuisance that must be tolerated.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? Cracking down with an iron fist after MASSIVELY buggy changes that break the game for the entire playerbase, and then secret mutings of players that voice dissent (read: not raving, not ranting), and then adding time gates on post frequency to curtail negative posts rather than actually do anything to address the issues.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? Gecko. His vision. His direction. His attitude. His behavior. Give the man a golden umbrella and get him the frak out of STO's chain of command, PERIOD.
I was doing fine and then that last 5 minutes or so that I listened to, I knew I had to stop or I would have joined the Trolldiers of the Apocalypse with their nonsensical ramblings...because the ol' brain would have just snapped and I would have gone off the deep end if I had listened to more. As is, it's probably going to take a week or two before I stop walking around with a WTF look on my face...
Geko is a perfect example of what you get when you judge a game only by 'metrics' and not by actually playing it.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? Gecko. His vision. His direction. His attitude. His behavior. Give the man a golden umbrella and get him the frak out of STO's chain of command, PERIOD.
Ouch, never listened to podcasts before, but maybe this is a good one to break my cherry on.
Feelings are subjective. They can't measure them. They can however measure indirect effects - people that feel badly about the game are not playing it, or at least playing it less.
They can measure how long people play, how often they play, how many people play, whether they have old accounts or new accounts playing. They can measure how much Zen people buy.
The human factor is in there - if people don't like it, the numbers are bad, if they like it, they are good.
Not quite true, there are ways to measure feelings, it's just that you have to be very cautious doing it, and behavior metrics on their own are unlikely to 'cut it'. That's why quite often in research what's talked about are things like 'sentiment', and how that sentiment will likely affect actions and behaviors in future. The important thing is to be very careful in how you measure them, and to avoid taking a set of behaviors and presuming from those an emotional state.
I can't recall the business that did it, but one major multinational used Twitter to measure sentiment after a major project launch by using a Big Data-style approach to produce a "timeline stream of key words" that was being said in relation to the product name. They could then work on patches based around major issues. But they had to see the messages to understand the context. So it's possible, but you're not going to get today's sentiment by looking at last month's sales figures.
The "metrics" being used can only measure past behavior, and cannot measure sentiment or provide insight on potential future behavior. Even worse, it's far too easy to take a bunch of past actions and unjustifiably generalize those into sentiment. And that's what I think is happening: they've taken "X percentage of people bought something, X percentage bought DR packs, X hours played... oh wow everyone loves the game and thinks it's great!" But you simply can't do that, without understanding the reasons behind those actions.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? Yes men and the white knights that brow beat everyone that disagrees with the devs, use personal attacks and get away with it scott free while all dissenting opinions are moderated on the flimsiest of excuses.
After forcing myself to listen to the "interview" i can sum up for you.
Q. we heard that DR is the best expansion so far
A. yes DR is the best expansion ever.
Q. we heard that the players love this new system of crafting and leveling.
A. yes the players love the new system
Q. we understand that players are excited about the dilithium sink hole for new ships and gear.
A. yes players love the new sink hole, they are very happy to have to repurchase the gear and ships that they already purchased.
not really sure were the interview part came in, seemed more like a group of fluffers hard at work.
I thought he did a very good job of actually explaining some of the decisions made. I mean he's right isn't he? I didn't come across anything he said that was wrong.
If you play the game on the assumption that you can max out everything for pennies and seconds then you're straight out of luck, but if you play the game to achieve a moderate amount of progress every day then you're doing it right.
You can't enforce a "right" or "wrong" way to play a game but a lot of you approach STO with an unhealthy attitude; STO is almost uniquely generous in what it allows you to do and what it doesn't require from you in order to engage and succeed in all of its content. I mean my MMO background is fairly broad but not exhaustive, so I'd love to be shown examples of other games like STO that are as generous.
Personally I find a lot of the... toxicity from the forum to be so badly misplaced it's hard to feel any sympathy for you guys.
I just saw a pic of you...thought i might share it White Knight
Truely your crusade to defend everything cryptic and PWE will not be in vain?!
Wasn't hard to do though, to be fair. The only other expansion we got gave us... Tovan Khev.
*shudder*
Some of us like Tovey!
But I get that people wanted the option to dismiss him after the primary story arc. Should've been built as a passenger-type character like Alexander for the KDF, maybe with a "let Tovan join your crew" option like Elise Flores once the story arc was over.
But I get that people wanted the option to dismiss him after the primary story arc. Should've been built as a passenger-type character like Alexander for the KDF, maybe with a "let Tovan join your crew" option like Elise Flores once the story arc was over.
I would've even settled for a "he's a part of your crew, but he doesn't HAVE TO be a BOFF". Buuut instead...
But I get that people wanted the option to dismiss him after the primary story arc. Should've been built as a passenger-type character like Alexander for the KDF, maybe with a "let Tovan join your crew" option like Elise Flores once the story arc was over.
I'd be very surprised if DR made the sort of money LoR likely did, just look at the difference in the peak, and the amount of hype people had for the pack compared with what felt like a largely underwhelming response to DR pack.
I admit I bought the new intrepid, and I thanked Cryptic for that, I like the intrepid, and I enjoyed playing in it for a bit. (Though, it was largely paid for with stipend)
I'd be very surprised if DR made the sort of money LoR likely did, just look at the difference in the peak, and the amount of hype people had for the pack compared with what felt like a largely underwhelming response to DR pack.
I admit I bought the new intrepid, and I thanked Cryptic for that, I like the intrepid, and I enjoyed playing in it for a bit. (Though, it was largely paid for with stipend)
From what I heard on the recent podcast, and what I expect from everything that's been said and done, they judge "success" to mean "DR pack sales made in October/November". December sales figures aren't in yet so it's still Teh Most Successful Launch Evah :rolleyes:
Comments
Players demanded repetition?
I didn't know this. In which case we deserve what we got.
I've played MMOs for years and I do know the score. I know quests/episodes/whatever are - and need to be (if fun and challenging) - repeatable... and I know 'end-game' is a constant replay of raid/stf/whatever material... yet repeatable shouldn't mean 'required' and anything repeatable has to be high-quality and fun... and rewarding, in terms of stuff but also in terms of time spent.
I'm not averse to level-cap-increases, either... as long as the delivered content fulfils the curve without insisting on mindless grind and patrol-repetition (say).
The content must - at very least - be adequate.
Amen.
Nah we demanded equal repetition for everything, because some time ago Mission Content was the only thing, not repeatable ... everything else was ... since we seem to be in full reverse to 2010 (except the good stuff) it shouldn't be long till they turn off Mission Replay again ... :P
I thought he did a very good job of actually explaining some of the decisions made. I mean he's right isn't he? I didn't come across anything he said that was wrong.
If you play the game on the assumption that you can max out everything for pennies and seconds then you're straight out of luck, but if you play the game to achieve a moderate amount of progress every day then you're doing it right.
You can't enforce a "right" or "wrong" way to play a game but a lot of you approach STO with an unhealthy attitude; STO is almost uniquely generous in what it allows you to do and what it doesn't require from you in order to engage and succeed in all of its content. I mean my MMO background is fairly broad but not exhaustive, so I'd love to be shown examples of other games like STO that are as generous.
Personally I find a lot of the... toxicity from the forum to be so badly misplaced it's hard to feel any sympathy for you guys.
Feelings are subjective. They can't measure them. They can however measure indirect effects - people that feel badly about the game are not playing it, or at least playing it less.
They can measure how long people play, how often they play, how many people play, whether they have old accounts or new accounts playing. They can measure how much Zen people buy.
The human factor is in there - if people don't like it, the numbers are bad, if they like it, they are good.
Instead of fighting, maybe we all can try to agree to disagree. Nobody is going to change anybody's mind here and the arguments become circular, then degrade into a flame-fest.
It doesn't make for a healthy community.
Yes, with an robotic attitude like that you can be Geko's assistant. You don't "measure" feelings, you interact with people in order to understand their feelings.
There is a plethora of things their "numbers" won't show. Like for ex. an invested player that played the game for a long time and can't bare to just leave the game yet, blindly hoping that Cryptic may eventually see reason after all. Or entire groups of people that still play because of eachother and friendships, while thinking the game itself sucks in it's current state.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? Yes men and the white knights that brow beat everyone that disagrees with the devs, use personal attacks and get away with it scott free while all dissenting opinions are moderated on the flimsiest of excuses.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? The lead devs insulting the players, treating them as a nuisance that must be tolerated.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? Cracking down with an iron fist after MASSIVELY buggy changes that break the game for the entire playerbase, and then secret mutings of players that voice dissent (read: not raving, not ranting), and then adding time gates on post frequency to curtail negative posts rather than actually do anything to address the issues.
You know what doesn't make for a healthy community? Gecko. His vision. His direction. His attitude. His behavior. Give the man a golden umbrella and get him the frak out of STO's chain of command, PERIOD.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Not quite true, there are ways to measure feelings, it's just that you have to be very cautious doing it, and behavior metrics on their own are unlikely to 'cut it'. That's why quite often in research what's talked about are things like 'sentiment', and how that sentiment will likely affect actions and behaviors in future. The important thing is to be very careful in how you measure them, and to avoid taking a set of behaviors and presuming from those an emotional state.
I can't recall the business that did it, but one major multinational used Twitter to measure sentiment after a major project launch by using a Big Data-style approach to produce a "timeline stream of key words" that was being said in relation to the product name. They could then work on patches based around major issues. But they had to see the messages to understand the context. So it's possible, but you're not going to get today's sentiment by looking at last month's sales figures.
The "metrics" being used can only measure past behavior, and cannot measure sentiment or provide insight on potential future behavior. Even worse, it's far too easy to take a bunch of past actions and unjustifiably generalize those into sentiment. And that's what I think is happening: they've taken "X percentage of people bought something, X percentage bought DR packs, X hours played... oh wow everyone loves the game and thinks it's great!" But you simply can't do that, without understanding the reasons behind those actions.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
*cough*
Now I know you're trolling.
Trolling? Nah. Just skeptical.
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Q. we heard that DR is the best expansion so far
A. yes DR is the best expansion ever.
Q. we heard that the players love this new system of crafting and leveling.
A. yes the players love the new system
Q. we understand that players are excited about the dilithium sink hole for new ships and gear.
A. yes players love the new sink hole, they are very happy to have to repurchase the gear and ships that they already purchased.
not really sure were the interview part came in, seemed more like a group of fluffers hard at work.
*shudder*
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I just saw a pic of you...thought i might share it White Knight
Truely your crusade to defend everything cryptic and PWE will not be in vain?!
Some of us like Tovey!
But I get that people wanted the option to dismiss him after the primary story arc. Should've been built as a passenger-type character like Alexander for the KDF, maybe with a "let Tovan join your crew" option like Elise Flores once the story arc was over.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
:eek: you like khev?
SOMEONE CALL AN EXCORCIST!!!! This guy will have to do
Mine Trap Supporter
i tried that once....until he wrote in his own fecal matter "Tovun Roolz"
then i had to keep an eye on him after that....and we had the frakking klingon ambassador onboard...can anyone say ..ackward
I lol'ed at this.
It's not Tovan's fault he's super sexy, it's just something you all have to get over. Who knows, maybe some day you'll be a sexy as him.
http://steamcharts.com/app/9900#All
I'd be very surprised if DR made the sort of money LoR likely did, just look at the difference in the peak, and the amount of hype people had for the pack compared with what felt like a largely underwhelming response to DR pack.
I admit I bought the new intrepid, and I thanked Cryptic for that, I like the intrepid, and I enjoyed playing in it for a bit. (Though, it was largely paid for with stipend)
From what I heard on the recent podcast, and what I expect from everything that's been said and done, they judge "success" to mean "DR pack sales made in October/November". December sales figures aren't in yet so it's still Teh Most Successful Launch Evah :rolleyes:
Says the guy with a game In his sig that can't seem to make it to beta
At this point, I want to jettison Khev while at warp.
:evigrin: