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Really hate the requirements for Advanced completion
bmcd73
Member Posts: 263 Arc User
I was doing bug hunt advanced tonight and went through the entire thing with a pug. We got to the end and I got disconnected. When I finally got back in, I was dead and had almost a minute wait before I could respawn. By then, one of the guys in the group called us TRIBBLE and quit. By the time I got back to the spawnmother, I was instantly stunlocked and killed. We never finished in time and got 10 marks.
Seriously? What a complete waste of time. You've taken something that used to be fun and now it just pisses people off. You may as well get nothing because 10 marks is an insult. Better yet, it should actually cost you some marks if you fail and dilithium and EC while you're at it.
Much higher requirements with less reward != more fun. Give us the advanced mats or the power cell...something more than 10 marks which is really insulting.
Seriously? What a complete waste of time. You've taken something that used to be fun and now it just pisses people off. You may as well get nothing because 10 marks is an insult. Better yet, it should actually cost you some marks if you fail and dilithium and EC while you're at it.
Much higher requirements with less reward != more fun. Give us the advanced mats or the power cell...something more than 10 marks which is really insulting.
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Yeah and have people start then fail on purpose to get the packs and or cells which is what most do it for ANYWAYS... Great idea -.-
I rarely had people fail on purpose before this change. The fact that they still get the rewards either way rarely changed how people played them. I have 12 lvl 50-60 toons and run queues on all of them. I've seen it happen but it was fairly rare. In any case, even if that does happen, you at least you get something out of it.
So you think not giving rewards for your time investment is a fun mechanic?
Bug Hunt is so ridiculously easy it is almost an embarrassment to call it elite.
I don't even think about the timers, when I do it. Killing alarm bugs mostly seems to handle itself, too.
The only thing that seems impossible is to get a team trying for the set charges optionally instead of just killing the spawn mother directly.
But cryptic will probably add a "pay 1000 dilithium and reset the lockout timer" thing.
That's easy to say when running with a strong team. I've made many elite runs and all successful.
However, I've also been in quite a few pugs who will never be able to kill the mother at the end. No matter how much time is given. It's pretty difficult to solo also when taking all the agro. I can only get it halfway.
The real question being asked is - does cryptic no longer want pugs. So far the answer is that they don't. If so then you needn't worry about changes to your elite premade runs.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
That would be the easiest way for Cryptic to relieve some of the growing (or learning) pains of the new queues. Not only would it help those who know what to do, but get stuck with a bad/inexperienced team, but it would help those inexperienced players get more experience and hopefully a better understanding of why an event fails.
It wasn't fun knowing that every old Elite queue I was going into was going to be an instant success - it was boring, because there was no challenge to it. Now it's a challenge again, and it adds something to the game. A game really isn't a game without a failure condition of some type (credit where credit is due: TotalBiscuit from YouTube said that perfectly). If I simply want to win at something every time, then I'm not going to load up an MMO.
That all said, it was annoying for the first few weeks of the queue revamp to see near-constant failures. But I'd say the failure rate of Advanced and Elite queues is going down now that players are:
a) learning the new strategies to play them,
b) leveling up to 60 and getting the new skills for their captains and ships, and
c) revisiting builds for their ships and captains that might have sat untouched for a couple years, and are upgrading their equipment
If the queue revamp was an instant-win for all of the playerbase, then it would be a pretty poor 'revamp.' This revamp is requiring that we all take some time to adjust, and slowly we are. That's a good revamp, and it's renewed the challenge of end-game play. The challenge going forward is to increase your success rate as close to 100% as you can get - but it should never be 100%. If enough of the playerbase achieves a 100% success rate, then I'd expect a new revamp would be in the works.
I have been in some pugs where they just dont have the gear to do an advanced bug hunt even if one or two do the rest dont but they want the rewards so obviously they join it. The elites seem to rarely fail the people that join them seem to have the gear to weather them.
I wanted to learn or relearn the rh'ilo station one (or however its spelled forget right now) I sat and waited for over an hour for an advanced or normal to pop .. I logged out and got on my guy that can do elites and joined that because that is where the people were so basically there is no real way to learn other then to join the q with you know the people that play. No one is ever going to play normal even if they have no gear because there is no reason to do so so basically they can delete the normal q's.
Unless its an event q then the rewards are decent on the normal level and so people pile into normal even those that are capable of doing elites because humans are humans if they are after the reward they will take the lane of least resistance.
So the only option for them to make this not a frustrating experience for people who do know tactics is to remove the optionals. That being said I always pug I dont mind it my success rate for completion is about 75% but maybe I am just lucky I dont know. However I know that the station one failed because I was learning but i wanted to learn and after several evenings of trying to get into a normal Q I gave up and tried an advanced.. got nowhere there and just shrugged my shoulders and joined an elite. That being said I only need one more run to figure it out completely then no one will be the wiser lol.
The reality is though as long as cryptic provides a gaming experience like this q system they will have this result. I get it they want a level of failure however the players are punished for failing with no reward and a 1 hours lockout and by the time the hour is up maybe they have given up and logged out or forgotten the lessons they learned in the first place. Its a very poorly designed system and you can't blame people for q'ing into something that has a chance to reward them something regardless of gear and hoping by some miracle they are able to get through the instance. Unfortunately if you have more then one undergeared player your gonna fail.
They seriously altered part of the end-game that was fun to mess about in, test new builds, earn marks & resources for reps or just good for mucking about doing a few runs to earn some dilithium.
And now that aspect of the game is a hideous grind-fest or pay-2-win monstrosity that has really pushed all but the most serious players away.
The queues are totally dead unless you want to play normal modes where it's 5 Lvl. 60 players fighting over a handful of completely outclassed NPCs with barely enough HPs to slow up a single player.
Or alternatively you can chance your luck at Advanced and be guaranteed a fail unless you can gather your friends or go for a premade team. I means seriously I used to really enjoy the old elites, and even with a powerful build a pug group added a level of randomness that added challenges to the missions. You had to make sure you knew what you were doing and had to prepare to carry a team if it all went ****-up.
Now it's just pointless pugging these, you can;t hope to succeed unless someone has god-ship and can solo kill and control NPCs with billions of HPs.
And as for elite, well I doubt less than 1% of the playerbase are even remotely interested in trying that elitist, e-peen infested nightmare.
Regardless of how many players are in fleets or in the various DPS channels pumping out huge DPS numbers, the overwhelming majority of the players I would imagine are casual. Casual in that they don't go for premade teaming, min/maxing, pay-2-win, and are only in fleets to contribute resources and buy some nice shiny toys.
These are the kind of players who go for pugs and are now well and truly stuffed when it comes to endgame content.
The changes to the PVE have nearly killed off this game for a lot of the players.
When i queue for an advanced STF i want a button that gives me ALL the rewards once i press it. Anything else is elitism!
jokes aside, if anybody has a very hard time killing a single sphere...and is absolutely incapable of destroying a cube on their own or atleast with 1 other player together, should NOT queue for advanced difficulty.
A bare minimum of about 10k sustained DPS is a basic requirement for most advanced STFs. No matter the captain class and ship class, 10k DPS or don't bother queuing.
So you can't hack Elite but still want to be l33ter than someone?
Run it in a pug and its not easy...you gotta work for it most of the time...and depending on your puglet's you might have to work VERY hard
To be fair you cannot compare a pug with a real team
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Elite is the version for everyone arguing the opposite. You guys wanted a challenge, you got one. Never mind they made content 1% of the playerbase will actually use, but now they can hook the whales better. Advanced needs to lose the failure mechanic or it will be months before it sees much use. Personally I resent losing the old elite level. I'm too powerful for normal but I wont take the chance of an hour cooldown with almost no reward to pug. If I wanted a fleet and people I had to talk to every day then sure it's doable. I just don't like fleet drama and the need to chat to people every day. Sometimes I want to log in and do a queue or two and stop.
Cryptic knows the stats. I expect changes will happen to advanced again. The truth is what I should have done is play something else for six months and come back and all these rough edges will have been smoothed out.
I'll be fine either way. I had many of the items for borg and dyson rep sets from the old queues or bz. I have a few upgraded ships to mk 14 UR and have ground out the traits on the new ships. I expect to be valuable to an advanced queue now but I wont take the high chance of failure with random people.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
To everyone who's complaining about failing advanced, there's really no nice way to say it. It's not a game problem, its your problem. You guys need to stick to the normal queues and forget about playing advanced until your properly geared and or skilled. There are plenty of players out there who are completing advanced queues and completing optionals without a problem.
I for one like the challenge and like having something to work towards.
I second this. At a certain point, it is up to the palyerbase to improve to do certain content and not the job of the developer to adjust content to fit ANY player (this content exists anyway...it is called normal). And we are really just talking about LITTLE improvements to builds and tactics that everybody has to adjust to to master advanced difficulty.
You don't need rep gear for advanced, but you need to know the tactics, a build that can deliver a certain amount of dmg and is sturdy enough to survive and possibly a bare minimum of interaction with fellow team mates.
Bug Hunt is not one of them.
i would be more serious about using honest words on the subject, however; TRIBBLE happens and it always will. i had a similar experience, was doing black talon on swtor the other day, had a temporary dc during the round, the silly team member didnt bother just kick on first opportunity, when i got back in they had already kicked me but on a timer, i helped them take yadira ban before dropping out moments later.
you are going to get people who act like that on any game, just sheer bad luck it happened in the way it did. i dunno about advanced yet, dont know what the community in general thinks of it yet as its barely been noticed over the last few weeks.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Here lie's the problem...The player base will never learn the tactics they haven't learned them in the 3 years ive been playing
most pugs enter the Q shoot anything they can and usually blow a generator before the cube goes down in ISA...Then they waste all of their buffs on the sphere attacking them instead of the transformer
Happens over and over almost like clockwork in pugs
Normal difficulty only encourages this type of play it teach's them nothing about how to do a advanced
Removal of the failure option is whats needed....the npcs are fine the mission is fine ....just the failure needs removing to accout for the ( Content ) not teaching the pugs how to play the content
Which is a Dev failure
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Personally, this is how I feel it should be as well.
No incentive to play normal(not a player made problem).
17 seconds to plan out the Rescue Three Ships in Azure Nebula Advance(again not a player made problem)
Advance and Elite space solely focused on DPS(again...not a player made problem)
This morning I pugged an Azure Nebula Advanced. I typed into group chat, "I can distract while someone gets tractor beams." I barely wrote that before the mission started. We did get the three free and time and we did express gratitude to each other, but its wrong wrong wrong to kick people out with nothing for a mistake/dc/or laziness.
Instead of KICKS(that is seriously hurting the morale of the player base)use bonus incentives to make people want to work hard, damn hard, on getting the OPTIONAL.
This is a no brainer of entertainment. You don't kick customers out of the store to make it more challenging because they WILL shop elsewhere.
OP does one, has a bad time, and suddenly everything about the concept it's wrong.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I'm going to disagree with ya on that. You don't need Rep gear to complete advanced. There are good sets you can get from playing episodes like the Solonae and Jem Hadar. Also, you can get a lot of the marks you need from playing the ground and space battlezones. There are also reps that require no special items like BNPs. Fleet gear can also be obtained. Costs on fleet gear have even been reduced and are more accessible than ever.
The casual masses can stick to normal and probably don't care and are not on the forums anyway complaining about it. They'll try to do advanced a couple times, fail it, then stick with normal that they can finish. Which I think is the intended outcome.
I suggest anyone have trouble completing advanced content find some friends that can help them get geared, get whatever mats they need to craft upgrades, and help them with all this stuff. We can look at all this DR stuff from a different perspective. It can bring more people together and help the social aspect of the game.
The poster quoted is a n00b who trolls DPSer posts - you are wasting your time.
You are of course correct, but that doesn't matter to them.
Oh come now, he'll allow you to play normal... for now...
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."