If the "tank" doesn't do enough DPS, they're either not a tank or a failure to tank - an invulnerable ship that never takes aggro, does no appreciable damage, and thus contributes nothing to the team. A tank needs to hold aggro and survive - no more, no less. An invulnerable ship is not a tank because it is missing the other half of the prerequisites.
An engineer in a cruiser that actually knows what they're doing will easily break 10k, especially post-DR.
It's unbelievable the amount of people who'll attempt to justify their own lack of skill and knowledge by trying to lower the bar and attacking anyone better as not doing it properly, instead of learning and improving.
It is not the tools we use which make us good, but rather how we employ them.
They lack knowledge and skill, not the BNP/APC required gear.
I'm a broken record on this point but I really dislike this about STO. Conventional MMO design is that gear provides more benefit than skill (especially where damage dealing goes) and you can, therefore, brute force your way through any content by gearing up a team.
In STO, if players hit a limit in terms of what they can remember or what they can keep track of or what directions they can follow, then they immediately stop being useful and more or better gear doesn't do anything to increase the utility of that person.
Many of us from the higher dps chans did such things, but one has to actively look for them AND distinguish them from the "look my scimi can take out a probe in less than 5minutes"-"guides". Its not from the game, and its not promoted within it.
I'm a broken record on this point but I really dislike this about STO. Conventional MMO design is that gear provides more benefit than skill (especially where damage dealing goes) and you can, therefore, brute force your way through any content by gearing up a team.
I don't think that's true.
In other MMOs, without a basic level of competence (a combination of knowledge and skill), gear alone will not see you through. I say this as someone who has sucked in WoW, GW2, and a number of other MMOs.
If you have a bad build (knowledge), then decent skill and good gear can see you through.
If you're bad at playing the game (skill), then a decent build and good gear can see you through.
If you have a bad build and are bad at playing, then regardless of your gear, you're not going to make it.
In STO pre-DR though, if you have a bad build, are bad at playing, and have middling gear - you'll still make it. There isn't much of a learning curve to improve. We didn't face progressively harder content that forces us to adjust our builds or develop our skills, difficulty is in awkward jumps.
I have a friend who played STO pre-DR. (He switched to playing Destiny when it came out, and hasn't been back.) He doesn't use any keybinds aside from WASD to fly his ship - he clicks everything.
He did eSTFs a few times, and succeeded, but felt he wasn't contributing enough. He had me look at his build. Decent gear - Mk X purples, Mk XI blues, the odd Mk XII. Terrible, terrible horrible build. My reaction was "How the hell did you get through the eSTFs at all?!" Heck, turns out he was challenged in some of the episodes, too.
So it's the other way around. STO never demanded a basic level of competence to get through the content, while other MMOs do. I'm pretty incompetent on ground - I just plunk down fabrications willy-nilly, crouch, aim, and tap the "1" key. I don't even select targets - and that still got me through all the ground eSTFs, simply because my gear was awesome. That would never work in WoW or GW2, you'd need to have some basic idea of skill rotations, build synergies, and positioning.
I was doing bug hunt advanced tonight and went through the entire thing with a pug. We got to the end and I got disconnected. When I finally got back in, I was dead and had almost a minute wait before I could respawn. By then, one of the guys in the group called us TRIBBLE and quit. By the time I got back to the spawnmother, I was instantly stunlocked and killed. We never finished in time and got 10 marks.
Seriously? What a complete waste of time. You've taken something that used to be fun and now it just pisses people off. You may as well get nothing because 10 marks is an insult. Better yet, it should actually cost you some marks if you fail and dilithium and EC while you're at it.
Much higher requirements with less reward != more fun. Give us the advanced mats or the power cell...something more than 10 marks which is really insulting.
hey can i haz all your stuffs when you rage quit?:)
Many of us from the higher dps chans did such things, but one has to actively look for them AND distinguish them from the "look my scimi can take out a probe in less than 5minutes"-"guides". Its not from the game, and its not promoted within it.
the problem is your word "good", right now "good" is defined by dps only
so team success is dependent only on how many wallert-warrior winboat-scimitar offensive type ships are on your team
that's it, it has zero to do with skill
this was true before as well, but winboat-scimitar types were more of a personal style choice then, not manditory/required for the win
Even DR hasnt made this game p2w. You can do it quite well with all those goodies from episodes and co, you just need basic knowledge of this game.
If you still think this is p2w, well, you should simply l2p first, then you may be able to take part in the discussion...
If the "tank" doesn't do enough DPS, they're either not a tank or a failure to tank - an invulnerable ship that never takes aggro, does no appreciable damage, and thus contributes nothing to the team. A tank needs to hold aggro and survive - no more, no less. An invulnerable ship is not a tank because it is missing the other half of the prerequisites.
An engineer in a cruiser that actually knows what they're doing will easily break 10k, especially post-DR.
It's unbelievable the amount of people who'll attempt to justify their own lack of skill and knowledge by trying to lower the bar and attacking anyone better as not doing it properly, instead of learning and improving.
I understand what you are saying, but it's just not that way. Sure, there are people out there who know about the game, and people who don't. But that's not what this is about. You try to do some of these advanced ques now with too many sci or engie ships, no matter how properly setup, or maxed out they are, it's going to fail.
They balanced the game around winboat-scimitar offensive types. That's not a good formula for success.
as I said though, they already have the mechanic built into the game to solve this. Easy, medium, and hard difficulty levels for these pve ques. I'm baffled as to why they aren't using that to their advantage. I've talked about this with other longtime players in the game, I'm not the only one confused by these changes.
the problem is your word "good", right now "good" is defined by dps only
so team success is dependent only on how many wallert-warrior winboat-scimitar offensive type ships are on your team
that's it, it has zero to do with skill
Sorry, but no. I am doing around 15k DPS in my Sovereign, which is no-where near its maximum if I really wanted to work on the build. I am using existing Rep and Fleet gear on my ship. I only have 3 pieces of Mk XIII gear: 2 I Upgraded and 1 was a drop. Everything else is gear that anyone can get.
I have people in my Fleet using the exact same Sovereign using the same Rep and Fleet gear. They are doing almost 1/3 of the DPS I am. The difference between me and them is that I chose my Boff skills more carefully. I slotted Doffs into use. I know when to use a Boff and Captain skill to my benefit. I am not running around in a rainbow boat simply so I can see 5 different colors shooting.
It is all about skill: skill in deciding what you take, what you slot, and how you use it. Mk XII, XIII, or XiV have little to do with succeeding in an Advanced queue. Unfortunately everyone thinks having Mk XIV Epic gear is the "I Win" button, and so they never learn how to play.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Yep, you can do an ASTF capable build from mission reward/realistically available loot drop gear.
My klingon just switched to the dyson ship with free dyson tac consoles and beams. With free Jem set. At level 11 and 12 I'd say it does better than the vet ship at 13 w disruptor cannons, fleet tac consoles.
I started a Talaxian today and to keep with the salvage expert motif I will try and use only found gear for her.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
My klingon just switched to the dyson ship with free dyson tac consoles and beams. With free Jem set. At level 11 and 12 I'd say it does better than the vet ship at 13 w disruptor cannons, fleet tac consoles.
I started a Talaxian today and to keep with the salvage expert motif I will try and use only found gear for her.
And stuff like this is why I've never really bought the "If you don't have elite gear you'll suck" arguments as you probably don't really need the super awesome stuff to do things in the game.
I understand what you are saying, but it's just not that way. Sure, there are people out there who know about the game, and people who don't. But that's not what this is about. You try to do some of these advanced ques now with too many sci or engie ships, no matter how properly setup, or maxed out they are, it's going to fail.
You keep saying this. As someone who only plays Engineer captains and prefer cruisers, I keep getting offended. Five engineers in cruisers should easily total 75k DPS. Yeah, that's 15k each, which is easily attainable with proper skill and builds that require zero BNPs/APCs.
In spite of all the unskilled players who keep insisting there's no such thing as skill, blaming their poor performance on gear to sooth their bruised egos, there is very obviously and undeniably an element of skill involved.
Proper positioning, maneuvering, timing and use of abilities very clearly have an affect on DPS. Those factors - the ability to properly use your gear and build - is skill.
Going back to my previous post, before I ever joined the DPS channels (so obviously pre-DR) I was parsing a little over 20k on average due to a strong build, good gear, and middling skill. Learning how to position myself, and about the proper usage and timing of abilities (which required that I take half of my commands out of my Spacebar) got me to a little under 30k on average.
Before the reputation system ever existed, using blue retrofit phasers and all mission gear, my noob Engineer in his Sci Oddy (the only T5.5 in existence at the time!) still parsed over 5k (iirc, 7k?) with a simple Dragon build. With the gear available today (RomPlas set, KCB and consoles, Nuka 2-piece, Rom Engines if Drake and CC Deflector if not, all Mk XII) and no longer being a noob that only spams spacebar, it should easily break 15k.
So a "properly set up" engie ship should be at least 15k, sufficient to not fail. A "maxed out" engie ship should be at least 24k, more than enough to guarantee success.
Weapons, a Fed could get blue Mk XI Plasma Arrays ([Acc]x2) and as many blue Mk XI Plasma Infusers they want. The KDF can get Mk XI Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays and as many Disruptor Coils they want.
There's also the Dominion Polaron weapons with the Jem'Hadar space set, as well as purple Mk XI AP Arrays ([Acc] [Dam] [CrtH]) with the Omni-Directional array and core. Full sets of Polarized Tetryon weapons are also available.
This is all decent gear, which reminds me that I made an error with my previous post - my Oddy was using eight Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays, having switched away from the Retrofit Phaser Arrays.
-Ok...let's test this. Send me a private message and I will give you my in game name so you can transfer a million EC every time you lose. That should be a blast for you. Wasting time and money is not fun. All MMOs work on a time invested to rewards earned ratio. There is a direct relationship between the two. It works the same in real life. Some just call it human nature. There is no relationship between failure and fun. You could make the argument that there IS a relationship between challenge and reward or challenge and fun but not challenge and failure.
Winning every time is honestly very boring. If the intention was for players to go into a queue, win every time, and get all the rewards they want, then there wouldn't be a point to having PvE at all. Just add a button in your inventory window that says "claim free VR mats and rep items" on a 30min cooldown, and that would have the same effect.
--Because you must put in the time. Also they are incentivizing people to play together as this is an MMO. So you button wouldn't accomplish either of those major requirements.
By being a game, I don't feel I've "wasted" any time going into a queue. Sure, a failure means I don't get rewarded, and there's a cooldown. But it's a game, and thus there is a chance for failure. A game where there is no chance for failure is a very poor game.
--I never said there is no chance of failure. I just said reward for time invested or you get less rewards for failure or you get way more rewards for success. 10 marks for failure is stupid.
If half-rewards are given for failure, then that doesn't encourage anyone to get better. That would actually make it profitable for a player to jump straight into an Elite and let the queue fail as quickly as possible. The game cannot reward failure, otherwise not enough players will try to win.
-This rarely happened before and my guess is that this would rarely happen in the new. Did it happen? Sure. Will it happen again...sure. But again, I have been talking Advanced. Keep your Elite the way it is.
The troublesome ships I would be referring to are those that are short on tactical ability slots and weapons slots. But are rich in engineer and science ability slots, and console spots. An extreme example would be
Maybe there's some elite gear setup that would make this playable in the advanced ques, but it certainly isn't an option for the average or even exceptional player. You play something like that in the advanced ques and you will be the team boatanchor. And if there's other people in the group who are not running a winboat-minmax-dps offensive build as well? Enjoy your quick trip home and subsequent 30 minute que cooldown.
This is a little better but it can also be a challenge in the advanced ques. The weapons are 4/4 but it lacks tactical ability slots. (The pets of course help)
Try being on probe duty in khittomer vortex in that when someone messes up and drops a cube on your head. You won't have enough dps to finish the probes and you will be quickly killed by the cube. If these ships and ships like them are marginally playable in the advanced ques, I'd say that difficulty is set wrong.
And if some of you say "challenge accepted!" to this, more power to you, go for it.
(mind you, there are many spots I've found the new difficulty levels to be quite fun, khittomer vortex being one of them)
Let's face it the changes to queues are bad for the game. The queues are less populated than they were before. Some people still do them, but not as many as before. Some people might be off leveling, others have found other things to do instead, and some have left the game. In the end this all means that the queue changes are not attracting more people to the game, quite the opposite. This is bad for cryptic, and bad for the players.
There are 2 easy solutions to the problem.
1. Remove the mandatory optional failures from advanced. Or..
2. Have normal give BNP (or their equivalent) and "advanced" R&D boxes. You could even bump up the BNPs in adv and elite to 2 and 3.
Just ask yourself, did the queue changes help or hurt the game? Not just for yourself, but for everyone.
Yeah, all it takes is knowing what to do to break 10k now.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=vpvpliberty_0 - That is My VPvP (plus a little, since it uses some stuff not allowed in VPvP) Mirror Star Cruiser, in PvE specification. Easy 10k DPS for me - and outside VPvP, only the devices are not vendor fodder. (I also have a version that uses VR Mk X Quantum torps for canon feel, but that doesn't do 10k, about 8k.)
The actual version I use for VPvP is very different as it is set up as a heal boat for that, but even then it parses 8k, 9k if I use stuff not allowed in VPvP. (as in Doffs and traits sort of thing, equipment is still VPvP spec)
That is an ASTF capable build now post nerfs. You do not need gear for ASTFs.
And, just for emphasis, this is a severely under-equipped STAR cruiser flown by a SCI Captain. You would struggle to make a ship/Captain combo LESS suitable for STO PvE.
I did start this after Darkjeff's post. Pipped by 4 posts...
Weapons, a Fed could get blue Mk XI Plasma Arrays ([Acc]x2) and as many blue Mk XI Plasma Infusers they want. The KDF can get Mk XI Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays and as many Disruptor Coils they want.
There's also the Dominion Polaron weapons with the Jem'Hadar space set, as well as purple Mk XI AP Arrays ([Acc] [Dam] [CrtH]) with the Omni-Directional array and core. Full sets of Polarized Tetryon weapons are also available.
This is all decent gear, which reminds me that I made an error with my previous post - my Oddy was using eight Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays, having switched away from the Retrofit Phaser Arrays.
Don't forget the purple mk xii AP beam arrays from fluid dynamics!
Let's face it the changes to queues are bad for the game. The queues are less populated than they were before. Some people still do them, but not as many as before. Some people might be off leveling, others have found other things to do instead, and some have left the game. In the end this all means that the queue changes are not attracting more people to the game, quite the opposite. This is bad for cryptic, and bad for the players.
This guy puts it well. After upgrading a few things to get 1, almost 2, ships functional (upgraded) the motivation to upgrade and setup other ships is mostly evaporated. Because with the ques gone, there's not much to do with them. So I've explored other areas of the game.
Also, we have to face, part of the population decline is that the expansion has no loot drops, it's just one gigantic upgrade-fest.
could have sworn they were mk xii [acc] [crtd] [crth]???
Might be wrong though... it happens
I have 2 main characters, both have all mk xiii or mk xiv gear. My rom has a few bits upgraded to UR/Epic.
I then have a sci that I only started using really since DR and he's got rep stuff and all mk xii mostly.
I've also just started a toon to use for PVP (I get bored of retraining CSV/CRF whenever I want to switch), and he's able to do 10K using mk ix dhc's and gets BO3 crits of 25K with a mk v DBB. I've only just started getting him some rep gear today. I haven't had any issues up until now with any of the DR mission content or mirror invasion. The whole build has up until now been whites and greens, and I didn't even have any active doffs! haha. It really isn't as much about gear as most people think!
I had a funny bug where all my weapons got unslotted when I warped into mirror except for my kinetic cutting beam... 1.5K dps from a single weapon didn't quite cut it. Stuff took way too long to die! hahaha
I do have to agree on one point, getting 10 marks for losing is stupid. This is war, not kindergarten, you shouldn't get brownie points for trying. You fail a mission you should be happy to get home with your ship and your body in one piece.
And begging the admiralty not to bump you back to Ensign instead of demanding half rewards for "time invested."
Imagine Captain Sisko facing his superiors after losing to the Breen in DS9: "The Changing Face of Evil" and saying:
"I know I completely lost the battle, got the entire fleet blown up and the only reason anyone lived was because the Dominion wanted the survivors to spread fear of their new weapons, but I tried really hard so that should be worth at least half as much as winning."
The troublesome ships I would be referring to are those that are short on tactical ability slots and weapons slots. But are rich in engineer and science ability slots, and console spots. An extreme example would be
I'm not a Science guy, but the advice givers in this thread appear to be doing alright. Looks like you have to not be in the tactical mindset, and actually crank up the Part Gens skill to 400.
Even so... still perfectly useable as a 'free thing'.
They work fine, I had a set of 6 (with the Omni-Directional array) on my Rom's Faeht when I was still gearing her (no KCB). Pulled around 15k when I hit up ISA to grab BNPs for the Omega ground set.
Comments
That. Every bit of that.
I'm a broken record on this point but I really dislike this about STO. Conventional MMO design is that gear provides more benefit than skill (especially where damage dealing goes) and you can, therefore, brute force your way through any content by gearing up a team.
In STO, if players hit a limit in terms of what they can remember or what they can keep track of or what directions they can follow, then they immediately stop being useful and more or better gear doesn't do anything to increase the utility of that person.
Many of us from the higher dps chans did such things, but one has to actively look for them AND distinguish them from the "look my scimi can take out a probe in less than 5minutes"-"guides". Its not from the game, and its not promoted within it.
I don't think that's true.
In other MMOs, without a basic level of competence (a combination of knowledge and skill), gear alone will not see you through. I say this as someone who has sucked in WoW, GW2, and a number of other MMOs.
If you have a bad build (knowledge), then decent skill and good gear can see you through.
If you're bad at playing the game (skill), then a decent build and good gear can see you through.
If you have a bad build and are bad at playing, then regardless of your gear, you're not going to make it.
In STO pre-DR though, if you have a bad build, are bad at playing, and have middling gear - you'll still make it. There isn't much of a learning curve to improve. We didn't face progressively harder content that forces us to adjust our builds or develop our skills, difficulty is in awkward jumps.
I have a friend who played STO pre-DR. (He switched to playing Destiny when it came out, and hasn't been back.) He doesn't use any keybinds aside from WASD to fly his ship - he clicks everything.
He did eSTFs a few times, and succeeded, but felt he wasn't contributing enough. He had me look at his build. Decent gear - Mk X purples, Mk XI blues, the odd Mk XII. Terrible, terrible horrible build. My reaction was "How the hell did you get through the eSTFs at all?!" Heck, turns out he was challenged in some of the episodes, too.
So it's the other way around. STO never demanded a basic level of competence to get through the content, while other MMOs do. I'm pretty incompetent on ground - I just plunk down fabrications willy-nilly, crouch, aim, and tap the "1" key. I don't even select targets - and that still got me through all the ground eSTFs, simply because my gear was awesome. That would never work in WoW or GW2, you'd need to have some basic idea of skill rotations, build synergies, and positioning.
hey can i haz all your stuffs when you rage quit?:)
I know, hence why I thought I'd post it up.
the problem is your word "good", right now "good" is defined by dps only
so team success is dependent only on how many wallert-warrior winboat-scimitar offensive type ships are on your team
that's it, it has zero to do with skill
this was true before as well, but winboat-scimitar types were more of a personal style choice then, not manditory/required for the win
Even DR hasnt made this game p2w. You can do it quite well with all those goodies from episodes and co, you just need basic knowledge of this game.
If you still think this is p2w, well, you should simply l2p first, then you may be able to take part in the discussion...
I understand what you are saying, but it's just not that way. Sure, there are people out there who know about the game, and people who don't. But that's not what this is about. You try to do some of these advanced ques now with too many sci or engie ships, no matter how properly setup, or maxed out they are, it's going to fail.
They balanced the game around winboat-scimitar offensive types. That's not a good formula for success.
as I said though, they already have the mechanic built into the game to solve this. Easy, medium, and hard difficulty levels for these pve ques. I'm baffled as to why they aren't using that to their advantage. I've talked about this with other longtime players in the game, I'm not the only one confused by these changes.
I have people in my Fleet using the exact same Sovereign using the same Rep and Fleet gear. They are doing almost 1/3 of the DPS I am. The difference between me and them is that I chose my Boff skills more carefully. I slotted Doffs into use. I know when to use a Boff and Captain skill to my benefit. I am not running around in a rainbow boat simply so I can see 5 different colors shooting.
It is all about skill: skill in deciding what you take, what you slot, and how you use it. Mk XII, XIII, or XiV have little to do with succeeding in an Advanced queue. Unfortunately everyone thinks having Mk XIV Epic gear is the "I Win" button, and so they never learn how to play.
episode loot? you're a crazy man
No, but knowledgeable.
Yep, you can do an ASTF capable build from mission reward/realistically available loot drop gear.
My klingon just switched to the dyson ship with free dyson tac consoles and beams. With free Jem set. At level 11 and 12 I'd say it does better than the vet ship at 13 w disruptor cannons, fleet tac consoles.
I started a Talaxian today and to keep with the salvage expert motif I will try and use only found gear for her.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
And stuff like this is why I've never really bought the "If you don't have elite gear you'll suck" arguments as you probably don't really need the super awesome stuff to do things in the game.
You keep saying this. As someone who only plays Engineer captains and prefer cruisers, I keep getting offended. Five engineers in cruisers should easily total 75k DPS. Yeah, that's 15k each, which is easily attainable with proper skill and builds that require zero BNPs/APCs.
In spite of all the unskilled players who keep insisting there's no such thing as skill, blaming their poor performance on gear to sooth their bruised egos, there is very obviously and undeniably an element of skill involved.
Proper positioning, maneuvering, timing and use of abilities very clearly have an affect on DPS. Those factors - the ability to properly use your gear and build - is skill.
Going back to my previous post, before I ever joined the DPS channels (so obviously pre-DR) I was parsing a little over 20k on average due to a strong build, good gear, and middling skill. Learning how to position myself, and about the proper usage and timing of abilities (which required that I take half of my commands out of my Spacebar) got me to a little under 30k on average.
Before the reputation system ever existed, using blue retrofit phasers and all mission gear, my noob Engineer in his Sci Oddy (the only T5.5 in existence at the time!) still parsed over 5k (iirc, 7k?) with a simple Dragon build. With the gear available today (RomPlas set, KCB and consoles, Nuka 2-piece, Rom Engines if Drake and CC Deflector if not, all Mk XII) and no longer being a noob that only spams spacebar, it should easily break 15k.
So a "properly set up" engie ship should be at least 15k, sufficient to not fail. A "maxed out" engie ship should be at least 24k, more than enough to guarantee success.
Episode Loot.
That means the Solanae set.
Weapons, a Fed could get blue Mk XI Plasma Arrays ([Acc]x2) and as many blue Mk XI Plasma Infusers they want. The KDF can get Mk XI Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays and as many Disruptor Coils they want.
There's also the Dominion Polaron weapons with the Jem'Hadar space set, as well as purple Mk XI AP Arrays ([Acc] [Dam] [CrtH]) with the Omni-Directional array and core. Full sets of Polarized Tetryon weapons are also available.
This is all decent gear, which reminds me that I made an error with my previous post - my Oddy was using eight Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays, having switched away from the Retrofit Phaser Arrays.
I've been a lifetime member since release so probably not going to be any rage quitting.
Additionally, I never said anything about Elite. I am talking Advanced queues. You know, what used to be the old Elite.
The Elitists can keep their minmax, all DPS all the time, Elite queues. But for the moderate players, Advanced queue failures are frustrating.
-Ok...let's test this. Send me a private message and I will give you my in game name so you can transfer a million EC every time you lose. That should be a blast for you. Wasting time and money is not fun. All MMOs work on a time invested to rewards earned ratio. There is a direct relationship between the two. It works the same in real life. Some just call it human nature. There is no relationship between failure and fun. You could make the argument that there IS a relationship between challenge and reward or challenge and fun but not challenge and failure.
--Because you must put in the time. Also they are incentivizing people to play together as this is an MMO. So you button wouldn't accomplish either of those major requirements.
--I never said there is no chance of failure. I just said reward for time invested or you get less rewards for failure or you get way more rewards for success. 10 marks for failure is stupid.
-This rarely happened before and my guess is that this would rarely happen in the new. Did it happen? Sure. Will it happen again...sure. But again, I have been talking Advanced. Keep your Elite the way it is.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Varanus_Fleet_Support_Vessel
Maybe there's some elite gear setup that would make this playable in the advanced ques, but it certainly isn't an option for the average or even exceptional player. You play something like that in the advanced ques and you will be the team boatanchor. And if there's other people in the group who are not running a winboat-minmax-dps offensive build as well? Enjoy your quick trip home and subsequent 30 minute que cooldown.
This is a little better but it can also be a challenge in the advanced ques. The weapons are 4/4 but it lacks tactical ability slots. (The pets of course help)
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Corsair_Flight_Deck_Cruiser_Retrofit
Try being on probe duty in khittomer vortex in that when someone messes up and drops a cube on your head. You won't have enough dps to finish the probes and you will be quickly killed by the cube. If these ships and ships like them are marginally playable in the advanced ques, I'd say that difficulty is set wrong.
And if some of you say "challenge accepted!" to this, more power to you, go for it.
(mind you, there are many spots I've found the new difficulty levels to be quite fun, khittomer vortex being one of them)
There are 2 easy solutions to the problem.
1. Remove the mandatory optional failures from advanced. Or..
2. Have normal give BNP (or their equivalent) and "advanced" R&D boxes. You could even bump up the BNPs in adv and elite to 2 and 3.
Just ask yourself, did the queue changes help or hurt the game? Not just for yourself, but for everyone.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=vpvpliberty_0 - That is My VPvP (plus a little, since it uses some stuff not allowed in VPvP) Mirror Star Cruiser, in PvE specification. Easy 10k DPS for me - and outside VPvP, only the devices are not vendor fodder. (I also have a version that uses VR Mk X Quantum torps for canon feel, but that doesn't do 10k, about 8k.)
The actual version I use for VPvP is very different as it is set up as a heal boat for that, but even then it parses 8k, 9k if I use stuff not allowed in VPvP. (as in Doffs and traits sort of thing, equipment is still VPvP spec)
That is an ASTF capable build now post nerfs. You do not need gear for ASTFs.
And, just for emphasis, this is a severely under-equipped STAR cruiser flown by a SCI Captain. You would struggle to make a ship/Captain combo LESS suitable for STO PvE.
I did start this after Darkjeff's post. Pipped by 4 posts...
Don't forget the purple mk xii AP beam arrays from fluid dynamics!
This guy puts it well. After upgrading a few things to get 1, almost 2, ships functional (upgraded) the motivation to upgrade and setup other ships is mostly evaporated. Because with the ques gone, there's not much to do with them. So I've explored other areas of the game.
Also, we have to face, part of the population decline is that the expansion has no loot drops, it's just one gigantic upgrade-fest.
1) They are Mk XI (unless DR altered that)
2) They were mentioned.
Might be wrong though... it happens
I have 2 main characters, both have all mk xiii or mk xiv gear. My rom has a few bits upgraded to UR/Epic.
I then have a sci that I only started using really since DR and he's got rep stuff and all mk xii mostly.
I've also just started a toon to use for PVP (I get bored of retraining CSV/CRF whenever I want to switch), and he's able to do 10K using mk ix dhc's and gets BO3 crits of 25K with a mk v DBB. I've only just started getting him some rep gear today. I haven't had any issues up until now with any of the DR mission content or mirror invasion. The whole build has up until now been whites and greens, and I didn't even have any active doffs! haha. It really isn't as much about gear as most people think!
I had a funny bug where all my weapons got unslotted when I warped into mirror except for my kinetic cutting beam... 1.5K dps from a single weapon didn't quite cut it. Stuff took way too long to die! hahaha
They are much worse. Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [Acc] [CrtH] [Dmg]
Ouch!!!! hahahaha
Even so... still perfectly useable as a 'free thing'.
And begging the admiralty not to bump you back to Ensign instead of demanding half rewards for "time invested."
Imagine Captain Sisko facing his superiors after losing to the Breen in DS9: "The Changing Face of Evil" and saying:
"I know I completely lost the battle, got the entire fleet blown up and the only reason anyone lived was because the Dominion wanted the survivors to spread fear of their new weapons, but I tried really hard so that should be worth at least half as much as winning."
I'm not a Science guy, but the advice givers in this thread appear to be doing alright. Looks like you have to not be in the tactical mindset, and actually crank up the Part Gens skill to 400.
They work fine, I had a set of 6 (with the Omni-Directional array) on my Rom's Faeht when I was still gearing her (no KCB). Pulled around 15k when I hit up ISA to grab BNPs for the Omega ground set.