Yep, you can do an ASTF capable build from mission reward/realistically available loot drop gear.
My klingon just switched to the dyson ship with free dyson tac consoles and beams. With free Jem set. At level 11 and 12 I'd say it does better than the vet ship at 13 w disruptor cannons, fleet tac consoles.
I started a Talaxian today and to keep with the salvage expert motif I will try and use only found gear for her.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
My klingon just switched to the dyson ship with free dyson tac consoles and beams. With free Jem set. At level 11 and 12 I'd say it does better than the vet ship at 13 w disruptor cannons, fleet tac consoles.
I started a Talaxian today and to keep with the salvage expert motif I will try and use only found gear for her.
And stuff like this is why I've never really bought the "If you don't have elite gear you'll suck" arguments as you probably don't really need the super awesome stuff to do things in the game.
I understand what you are saying, but it's just not that way. Sure, there are people out there who know about the game, and people who don't. But that's not what this is about. You try to do some of these advanced ques now with too many sci or engie ships, no matter how properly setup, or maxed out they are, it's going to fail.
You keep saying this. As someone who only plays Engineer captains and prefer cruisers, I keep getting offended. Five engineers in cruisers should easily total 75k DPS. Yeah, that's 15k each, which is easily attainable with proper skill and builds that require zero BNPs/APCs.
In spite of all the unskilled players who keep insisting there's no such thing as skill, blaming their poor performance on gear to sooth their bruised egos, there is very obviously and undeniably an element of skill involved.
Proper positioning, maneuvering, timing and use of abilities very clearly have an affect on DPS. Those factors - the ability to properly use your gear and build - is skill.
Going back to my previous post, before I ever joined the DPS channels (so obviously pre-DR) I was parsing a little over 20k on average due to a strong build, good gear, and middling skill. Learning how to position myself, and about the proper usage and timing of abilities (which required that I take half of my commands out of my Spacebar) got me to a little under 30k on average.
Before the reputation system ever existed, using blue retrofit phasers and all mission gear, my noob Engineer in his Sci Oddy (the only T5.5 in existence at the time!) still parsed over 5k (iirc, 7k?) with a simple Dragon build. With the gear available today (RomPlas set, KCB and consoles, Nuka 2-piece, Rom Engines if Drake and CC Deflector if not, all Mk XII) and no longer being a noob that only spams spacebar, it should easily break 15k.
So a "properly set up" engie ship should be at least 15k, sufficient to not fail. A "maxed out" engie ship should be at least 24k, more than enough to guarantee success.
Weapons, a Fed could get blue Mk XI Plasma Arrays ([Acc]x2) and as many blue Mk XI Plasma Infusers they want. The KDF can get Mk XI Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays and as many Disruptor Coils they want.
There's also the Dominion Polaron weapons with the Jem'Hadar space set, as well as purple Mk XI AP Arrays ([Acc] [Dam] [CrtH]) with the Omni-Directional array and core. Full sets of Polarized Tetryon weapons are also available.
This is all decent gear, which reminds me that I made an error with my previous post - my Oddy was using eight Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays, having switched away from the Retrofit Phaser Arrays.
-Ok...let's test this. Send me a private message and I will give you my in game name so you can transfer a million EC every time you lose. That should be a blast for you. Wasting time and money is not fun. All MMOs work on a time invested to rewards earned ratio. There is a direct relationship between the two. It works the same in real life. Some just call it human nature. There is no relationship between failure and fun. You could make the argument that there IS a relationship between challenge and reward or challenge and fun but not challenge and failure.
Winning every time is honestly very boring. If the intention was for players to go into a queue, win every time, and get all the rewards they want, then there wouldn't be a point to having PvE at all. Just add a button in your inventory window that says "claim free VR mats and rep items" on a 30min cooldown, and that would have the same effect.
--Because you must put in the time. Also they are incentivizing people to play together as this is an MMO. So you button wouldn't accomplish either of those major requirements.
By being a game, I don't feel I've "wasted" any time going into a queue. Sure, a failure means I don't get rewarded, and there's a cooldown. But it's a game, and thus there is a chance for failure. A game where there is no chance for failure is a very poor game.
--I never said there is no chance of failure. I just said reward for time invested or you get less rewards for failure or you get way more rewards for success. 10 marks for failure is stupid.
If half-rewards are given for failure, then that doesn't encourage anyone to get better. That would actually make it profitable for a player to jump straight into an Elite and let the queue fail as quickly as possible. The game cannot reward failure, otherwise not enough players will try to win.
-This rarely happened before and my guess is that this would rarely happen in the new. Did it happen? Sure. Will it happen again...sure. But again, I have been talking Advanced. Keep your Elite the way it is.
The troublesome ships I would be referring to are those that are short on tactical ability slots and weapons slots. But are rich in engineer and science ability slots, and console spots. An extreme example would be
Maybe there's some elite gear setup that would make this playable in the advanced ques, but it certainly isn't an option for the average or even exceptional player. You play something like that in the advanced ques and you will be the team boatanchor. And if there's other people in the group who are not running a winboat-minmax-dps offensive build as well? Enjoy your quick trip home and subsequent 30 minute que cooldown.
This is a little better but it can also be a challenge in the advanced ques. The weapons are 4/4 but it lacks tactical ability slots. (The pets of course help)
Try being on probe duty in khittomer vortex in that when someone messes up and drops a cube on your head. You won't have enough dps to finish the probes and you will be quickly killed by the cube. If these ships and ships like them are marginally playable in the advanced ques, I'd say that difficulty is set wrong.
And if some of you say "challenge accepted!" to this, more power to you, go for it.
(mind you, there are many spots I've found the new difficulty levels to be quite fun, khittomer vortex being one of them)
Let's face it the changes to queues are bad for the game. The queues are less populated than they were before. Some people still do them, but not as many as before. Some people might be off leveling, others have found other things to do instead, and some have left the game. In the end this all means that the queue changes are not attracting more people to the game, quite the opposite. This is bad for cryptic, and bad for the players.
There are 2 easy solutions to the problem.
1. Remove the mandatory optional failures from advanced. Or..
2. Have normal give BNP (or their equivalent) and "advanced" R&D boxes. You could even bump up the BNPs in adv and elite to 2 and 3.
Just ask yourself, did the queue changes help or hurt the game? Not just for yourself, but for everyone.
Yeah, all it takes is knowing what to do to break 10k now.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=vpvpliberty_0 - That is My VPvP (plus a little, since it uses some stuff not allowed in VPvP) Mirror Star Cruiser, in PvE specification. Easy 10k DPS for me - and outside VPvP, only the devices are not vendor fodder. (I also have a version that uses VR Mk X Quantum torps for canon feel, but that doesn't do 10k, about 8k.)
The actual version I use for VPvP is very different as it is set up as a heal boat for that, but even then it parses 8k, 9k if I use stuff not allowed in VPvP. (as in Doffs and traits sort of thing, equipment is still VPvP spec)
That is an ASTF capable build now post nerfs. You do not need gear for ASTFs.
And, just for emphasis, this is a severely under-equipped STAR cruiser flown by a SCI Captain. You would struggle to make a ship/Captain combo LESS suitable for STO PvE.
I did start this after Darkjeff's post. Pipped by 4 posts...
Weapons, a Fed could get blue Mk XI Plasma Arrays ([Acc]x2) and as many blue Mk XI Plasma Infusers they want. The KDF can get Mk XI Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays and as many Disruptor Coils they want.
There's also the Dominion Polaron weapons with the Jem'Hadar space set, as well as purple Mk XI AP Arrays ([Acc] [Dam] [CrtH]) with the Omni-Directional array and core. Full sets of Polarized Tetryon weapons are also available.
This is all decent gear, which reminds me that I made an error with my previous post - my Oddy was using eight Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays, having switched away from the Retrofit Phaser Arrays.
Don't forget the purple mk xii AP beam arrays from fluid dynamics!
Let's face it the changes to queues are bad for the game. The queues are less populated than they were before. Some people still do them, but not as many as before. Some people might be off leveling, others have found other things to do instead, and some have left the game. In the end this all means that the queue changes are not attracting more people to the game, quite the opposite. This is bad for cryptic, and bad for the players.
This guy puts it well. After upgrading a few things to get 1, almost 2, ships functional (upgraded) the motivation to upgrade and setup other ships is mostly evaporated. Because with the ques gone, there's not much to do with them. So I've explored other areas of the game.
Also, we have to face, part of the population decline is that the expansion has no loot drops, it's just one gigantic upgrade-fest.
could have sworn they were mk xii [acc] [crtd] [crth]???
Might be wrong though... it happens
I have 2 main characters, both have all mk xiii or mk xiv gear. My rom has a few bits upgraded to UR/Epic.
I then have a sci that I only started using really since DR and he's got rep stuff and all mk xii mostly.
I've also just started a toon to use for PVP (I get bored of retraining CSV/CRF whenever I want to switch), and he's able to do 10K using mk ix dhc's and gets BO3 crits of 25K with a mk v DBB. I've only just started getting him some rep gear today. I haven't had any issues up until now with any of the DR mission content or mirror invasion. The whole build has up until now been whites and greens, and I didn't even have any active doffs! haha. It really isn't as much about gear as most people think!
I had a funny bug where all my weapons got unslotted when I warped into mirror except for my kinetic cutting beam... 1.5K dps from a single weapon didn't quite cut it. Stuff took way too long to die! hahaha
I do have to agree on one point, getting 10 marks for losing is stupid. This is war, not kindergarten, you shouldn't get brownie points for trying. You fail a mission you should be happy to get home with your ship and your body in one piece.
And begging the admiralty not to bump you back to Ensign instead of demanding half rewards for "time invested."
Imagine Captain Sisko facing his superiors after losing to the Breen in DS9: "The Changing Face of Evil" and saying:
"I know I completely lost the battle, got the entire fleet blown up and the only reason anyone lived was because the Dominion wanted the survivors to spread fear of their new weapons, but I tried really hard so that should be worth at least half as much as winning."
The troublesome ships I would be referring to are those that are short on tactical ability slots and weapons slots. But are rich in engineer and science ability slots, and console spots. An extreme example would be
I'm not a Science guy, but the advice givers in this thread appear to be doing alright. Looks like you have to not be in the tactical mindset, and actually crank up the Part Gens skill to 400.
Even so... still perfectly useable as a 'free thing'.
They work fine, I had a set of 6 (with the Omni-Directional array) on my Rom's Faeht when I was still gearing her (no KCB). Pulled around 15k when I hit up ISA to grab BNPs for the Omega ground set.
They work fine, I had a set of 6 (with the Omni-Directional array) on my Rom's Faeht when I was still gearing her (no KCB). Pulled around 15k when I hit up ISA to grab BNPs for the Omega ground set.
Ditto! there's plenty of free gear that is 'good enough'.
I'm not a Science guy, but the advice givers in this thread appear to be doing alright. Looks like you have to not be in the tactical mindset, and actually crank up the Part Gens skill to 400.
I've been experimenting with my sci toon lately, and although a long way off from being happy, I do more dps with tractor beam repulsers than with 6 beam arrays now
The troublesome ships I would be referring to are those that are short on tactical ability slots and weapons slots. But are rich in engineer and science ability slots, and console spots. An extreme example would be
Maybe there's some elite gear setup that would make this playable in the advanced ques, but it certainly isn't an option for the average or even exceptional player. You play something like that in the advanced ques and you will be the team boatanchor. And if there's other people in the group who are not running a winboat-minmax-dps offensive build as well? Enjoy your quick trip home and subsequent 30 minute que cooldown.
This is a little better but it can also be a challenge in the advanced ques. The weapons are 4/4 but it lacks tactical ability slots. (The pets of course help)
Try being on probe duty in khittomer vortex in that when someone messes up and drops a cube on your head. You won't have enough dps to finish the probes and you will be quickly killed by the cube. If these ships and ships like them are marginally playable in the advanced ques, I'd say that difficulty is set wrong.
And if some of you say "challenge accepted!" to this, more power to you, go for it.
Are you kidding me? If its a cruiser, and you dont have access to phantom trait, go a2b. You get technicians in BTran. So long you dont have them, play classic damage control engineer-build without Attackpatterns (faw and such is in those cases more important), as DCEs can easily obtained by doffing engineering, which is one of the easiest to max out (many high cxp-missions), and with t3 you already got 2 blue ones (1 from ferra, 1 from replicator). The lv40 assault is a prime example for this.
But what you posted is even easier. The cruisers have limited options -they can get into trouble, at least on unexperienced players-, but sci ships? They are versatile. Put some torps on it, get some projectile doffs (1 you get form nimbus with leveling, the others from military doffing, also fast and easily level-able), that way you can neglect weapon power. For the cheap build get a photon-torp (many missions reward them, rapidfiring transphasic is also good), the breen-cluster-torp (episode) and hapeng-torp (mission/doffing depending on faction). Max power to aux and shield, neglect engines and weapons. Add some TT and torpabilities. And now you have many, many sci-abilities, normally enough for 2 TSS, 2 HE, 2 GW. Usually you can even throw a TBR in.
Later one would use rom hyper, breen cluster (it simply rocks) and gravimetric/neutronic/bio-torp.
Now comes the big point of the sciships: if you cant dps them out of the universe, you can simply stall them for eternity. Probeduty in a sciship shouldnt be a problem. And a single cube knocking on you shouldnt be a problem either. Play "where angels fear to thread" and you get a good anti-borg shield. Hell, you could even go and add some flowcaps and a TR3 on sciships and deactivate the entire probespawn, so you dont even have to trouble yourself with their shields.
Seriously,as long as its just a timer for optional (like ISA and I think kase too) its very easy with a sciship to do. Might not be fast, but you will finish it. I had a isa today were my 11k designstudy-scyer (I need the trait^^) was the best ship, the next one had 7k, and the worst 4k. We had 3min left on optional. Would have been more if I had used my trainbuild, but currently I play with partgens. With drainbuild (roughly flowcaps+TR3 for mobs) sphere totally dead and so only the hull to shoot. Would have definetly been faster.
But point being, for advanced, Sci ships are enough to do it. You just have to think a bit out of the box.
Less tactical slots can always either be compensated (to a degree it allows every ship to exceed 10k) by either a2b (doffs are free) or torps+sci-abilities (obviously for sciships only). Now the phantom-trait gives even handicapped cruisers a chance to get by without a2b, though that isnt for free.
Are you kidding me? If its a cruiser, and you dont have access to phantom trait, go a2b. You get technicians in BTran. So long you dont have them, play classic damage control engineer-build ...
...
...torps+sci-abilities (obviously for sciships only). Now the phantom-trait gives even handicapped cruisers a chance to get by without a2b, though that isnt for free.
But seriously, at least consider to l2p...
Dude, excellent info, but you should cut the leet attitude, it doesn't help or add to anything. You obviously know a ton about the game, but I think your nuts if you think those ships would work great in this brave new world. So what if they can tractor repel something, it doesn't mean TRIBBLE if they can't kill it.
If things were working well the ques would be full of people, and people would be raving about how much more fun things are.
But it's exactly the opposite, except for a couple overplayed ques, it's a GD wasteland out there. Good luck getting omega marks these days, what is it 9k or something needed for the gear?
It's frightening to me (because I actually like this game) and I'll bet it's frightening to many others (maybe you too) because my $$ spending on the game went through the floor, and I hear the same thing from other people too. Not out of any sort of BS revenge thing but because we are simply not motivated. And what's worse is I haven't seen any hint whatsoever that they think this is worth attention.
I'm not a Science guy, but the advice givers in this thread appear to be doing alright. Looks like you have to not be in the tactical mindset, and actually crank up the Part Gens skill to 400.
-Ok...let's test this. Send me a private message and I will give you my in game name so you can transfer a million EC every time you lose. That should be a blast for you.
You're right, that wouldn't be fun. I really don't see what kind of point you could be making with a comment like that.
But again, I have been talking Advanced. Keep your Elite the way it is.
As have I. Read back in the thread - I mentioned that my builds aren't ready for Elite-level play yet. I spend most of my time in Advanced queues in space, so that's where my perspective is coming from. And my perspective remains that I have no problem with the occasional queue failure, and don't expect to be rewarded for said failure.
It's frightening to me (because I actually like this game) and I'll bet it's frightening to many others (maybe you too) because my $$ spending on the game went through the floor, and I hear the same thing from other people too. Not out of any sort of BS revenge thing but because we are simply not motivated. And what's worse is I haven't seen any hint whatsoever that they think this is worth attention.
I read / heard a lot of players worried about their investments prior to DR, but much less after. With the gear and ship upgrade systems, all it's taking is time to adjust to the new difficulty (that is, unless you're specifically buying new T6 ships, or speeding up the upgrade requirements with ZEN-to-dilithium conversions and other C-Store purchases). None of my ships are being left behind as a result of DR's difficulty change - even my freebie Ambassador, which is locked at T5 and can't be upgraded, is still more than capable of end-game play.
For sure, the goalposts were moved on the players, but that comes with a level cap increase. It'll just take time for players to level up, get the specializations, etc. Nothing, at least as far as I've felt, has been really lost since the update.
I do have to agree on one point, getting 10 marks for losing is stupid. This is war, not kindergarten, you shouldn't get brownie points for trying. You fail a mission you should be happy to get home with your ship and your body in one piece.
Very, very well put. Agreed
I think the main point of frustration for players is that, for the first time in years, things have gotten more difficult. It will take time for the playerbase to adapt, but it will happen. Players who have gotten used to their builds being plenty good for the old queues are having to put in more work. And all players - myself included - are having to level up and earn the new goodies. This will all take time, and it won't be instantaneous.
As the weeks pass, the 'average player' will be better. We all just need to put in some time, adjust our builds, and play the game. Demanding that Advanced be made easier by reducing fail conditions, or that rewards be increased for Normal-level and/or queue fails, is in part about players wanting all of the new things right away. That isn't how an MMO should be designed. Only the people who were top-dogs prior to DR (very much not a group I could include myself in) should be able to adjust with minimal time and effort. The rest of us will need to push ourselves to get that little bit better, with time.
I've read this thread with some interest, especially from those who think this mess is actually a good thing. Learn to play is the old refrain brought back for another round. Yet this thinking doesn't address the real issue at hand: pugs and queues. For most people, this is how they interact with the missions. And it is utterly broken.
I went back to advanced yesterday, after finishing upgrading my best ship to mk 14 epic and ultra rare. My build is compatible with those I've read online from people here assuring that this is enough for advanced even with gear much worse than mine. I solo'd the first 2 spheres in ISA easy enough. I went to help with the generators, and noticed someone was shooting the transformer even though all the generators were still up. Sure enough we failed, though long enough into the mission to feel like a bummer. The moral of this story is that no matter how well you're equipped, how well you've learned to play, you are still only one of five random people. Unless someone here is suggesting that ISA is soloable and that we should have people carried through the mission by those who can, the queue for advanced is broken.
The mission is doable with a team of people who know what they're doing with decent equipment. But the failure option just makes it a poor choice of play when you're are quite likely to fail due to not having five people who can do it. I will not spend my limited time losing and not getting rewards due to the broken system. And people agree with me. Look at the queues for Conduit. Very few people play on advanced now. Almost none on Borg Disconnected. Conduit elite used to have many people playing it; now I see five people in the whole queue. This is a direct result of poor design choices made by our dev team. Trying to excuse it or promote this poor decision is just hurting the game and the majority of players.
So now I can vaporize anything in normal mode but still can't play advanced. Yeah, this has been a rousing success.
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
Dude, excellent info, but you should cut the leet attitude, it doesn't help or add to anything. You obviously know a ton about the game, but I think your nuts if you think those ships would work great in this brave new world
I might work at my attitude if I wouldnt have to read such nonsense like your second sentence. Sure you can with little investment do much with free stuff. This game isnt p2w, but l2p. Sure, stuffing money in the game helps, but its like polynominal equations. Money would be linear, while l2p would be at least cubic.
Seriously, if my makeshift-scyer can pug with 12k, those two ship can do over 10k too. And for the starter you can do 6-7k plus CC the hell out of it, and dont forget this is a teameffort, not singleplayer.
The problem is, that the game itself doesnt teach anything, nor does it redirect to real guides or builds. If it would, the DR-Difficulty would have been implemented with LoR and the queues were soaring with players.
I also follow this discussion and really like the fact that peeps here are trying to give advice about how to get good dps for free n stuff or hoping that the average player will get better in time. Lol, maybe but maybe not.
For as long as there are queues you are likely to end up in an average team consisting of:
- One DPS King testing his latest build
- One none DPS minded veteran on a more or less effective build but who knows what hes doing.
- One casual who brings an average perhaps undergeared build and is there for the fun pew pew.
- One player who brings in a new toon and can only contribute far below his capabilities and is just there for the grind.
- One totally new player not knowing whats going on and jumping on the first chance to mess things up.
Switch one or two but that constellation is not going to change ever. The way the old elite were designed those teams were able to do just fine, perhaps at the cost of an optional, but everybody was happy.
But now?
The entire team plays against each other because of the way the fail criteria are designed. DPS timers in the background and one direct mistake fails in front of you.
There is hardly any teamwork involved and hardly any challenge because it just depends on how many of a kind from above you end up in your latest queue.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yep, been done. You need to be able to do about 35-40k DPS and 6k H/S PPS minimum, but it can be done. I cannot be bothered to do it mind, but I do know how to.
Blast initial Cube + Spheres, go right side, nail Cube, ~10% or less on each gen (as long as you do not kill it) once all four gens are done take all 4 out at once, nail transformer as hard as you can, move to left side, repeat, nail Gateway, back to right side to take out the Tac Cube.
Or, if you can take Gate and Tac Cube at once, go left first, right second.
Comments
No, but knowledgeable.
Yep, you can do an ASTF capable build from mission reward/realistically available loot drop gear.
My klingon just switched to the dyson ship with free dyson tac consoles and beams. With free Jem set. At level 11 and 12 I'd say it does better than the vet ship at 13 w disruptor cannons, fleet tac consoles.
I started a Talaxian today and to keep with the salvage expert motif I will try and use only found gear for her.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
And stuff like this is why I've never really bought the "If you don't have elite gear you'll suck" arguments as you probably don't really need the super awesome stuff to do things in the game.
You keep saying this. As someone who only plays Engineer captains and prefer cruisers, I keep getting offended. Five engineers in cruisers should easily total 75k DPS. Yeah, that's 15k each, which is easily attainable with proper skill and builds that require zero BNPs/APCs.
In spite of all the unskilled players who keep insisting there's no such thing as skill, blaming their poor performance on gear to sooth their bruised egos, there is very obviously and undeniably an element of skill involved.
Proper positioning, maneuvering, timing and use of abilities very clearly have an affect on DPS. Those factors - the ability to properly use your gear and build - is skill.
Going back to my previous post, before I ever joined the DPS channels (so obviously pre-DR) I was parsing a little over 20k on average due to a strong build, good gear, and middling skill. Learning how to position myself, and about the proper usage and timing of abilities (which required that I take half of my commands out of my Spacebar) got me to a little under 30k on average.
Before the reputation system ever existed, using blue retrofit phasers and all mission gear, my noob Engineer in his Sci Oddy (the only T5.5 in existence at the time!) still parsed over 5k (iirc, 7k?) with a simple Dragon build. With the gear available today (RomPlas set, KCB and consoles, Nuka 2-piece, Rom Engines if Drake and CC Deflector if not, all Mk XII) and no longer being a noob that only spams spacebar, it should easily break 15k.
So a "properly set up" engie ship should be at least 15k, sufficient to not fail. A "maxed out" engie ship should be at least 24k, more than enough to guarantee success.
Episode Loot.
That means the Solanae set.
Weapons, a Fed could get blue Mk XI Plasma Arrays ([Acc]x2) and as many blue Mk XI Plasma Infusers they want. The KDF can get Mk XI Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays and as many Disruptor Coils they want.
There's also the Dominion Polaron weapons with the Jem'Hadar space set, as well as purple Mk XI AP Arrays ([Acc] [Dam] [CrtH]) with the Omni-Directional array and core. Full sets of Polarized Tetryon weapons are also available.
This is all decent gear, which reminds me that I made an error with my previous post - my Oddy was using eight Plasma-Disruptor Beam Arrays, having switched away from the Retrofit Phaser Arrays.
I've been a lifetime member since release so probably not going to be any rage quitting.
Additionally, I never said anything about Elite. I am talking Advanced queues. You know, what used to be the old Elite.
The Elitists can keep their minmax, all DPS all the time, Elite queues. But for the moderate players, Advanced queue failures are frustrating.
-Ok...let's test this. Send me a private message and I will give you my in game name so you can transfer a million EC every time you lose. That should be a blast for you. Wasting time and money is not fun. All MMOs work on a time invested to rewards earned ratio. There is a direct relationship between the two. It works the same in real life. Some just call it human nature. There is no relationship between failure and fun. You could make the argument that there IS a relationship between challenge and reward or challenge and fun but not challenge and failure.
--Because you must put in the time. Also they are incentivizing people to play together as this is an MMO. So you button wouldn't accomplish either of those major requirements.
--I never said there is no chance of failure. I just said reward for time invested or you get less rewards for failure or you get way more rewards for success. 10 marks for failure is stupid.
-This rarely happened before and my guess is that this would rarely happen in the new. Did it happen? Sure. Will it happen again...sure. But again, I have been talking Advanced. Keep your Elite the way it is.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Varanus_Fleet_Support_Vessel
Maybe there's some elite gear setup that would make this playable in the advanced ques, but it certainly isn't an option for the average or even exceptional player. You play something like that in the advanced ques and you will be the team boatanchor. And if there's other people in the group who are not running a winboat-minmax-dps offensive build as well? Enjoy your quick trip home and subsequent 30 minute que cooldown.
This is a little better but it can also be a challenge in the advanced ques. The weapons are 4/4 but it lacks tactical ability slots. (The pets of course help)
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Corsair_Flight_Deck_Cruiser_Retrofit
Try being on probe duty in khittomer vortex in that when someone messes up and drops a cube on your head. You won't have enough dps to finish the probes and you will be quickly killed by the cube. If these ships and ships like them are marginally playable in the advanced ques, I'd say that difficulty is set wrong.
And if some of you say "challenge accepted!" to this, more power to you, go for it.
(mind you, there are many spots I've found the new difficulty levels to be quite fun, khittomer vortex being one of them)
There are 2 easy solutions to the problem.
1. Remove the mandatory optional failures from advanced. Or..
2. Have normal give BNP (or their equivalent) and "advanced" R&D boxes. You could even bump up the BNPs in adv and elite to 2 and 3.
Just ask yourself, did the queue changes help or hurt the game? Not just for yourself, but for everyone.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=vpvpliberty_0 - That is My VPvP (plus a little, since it uses some stuff not allowed in VPvP) Mirror Star Cruiser, in PvE specification. Easy 10k DPS for me - and outside VPvP, only the devices are not vendor fodder. (I also have a version that uses VR Mk X Quantum torps for canon feel, but that doesn't do 10k, about 8k.)
The actual version I use for VPvP is very different as it is set up as a heal boat for that, but even then it parses 8k, 9k if I use stuff not allowed in VPvP. (as in Doffs and traits sort of thing, equipment is still VPvP spec)
That is an ASTF capable build now post nerfs. You do not need gear for ASTFs.
And, just for emphasis, this is a severely under-equipped STAR cruiser flown by a SCI Captain. You would struggle to make a ship/Captain combo LESS suitable for STO PvE.
I did start this after Darkjeff's post. Pipped by 4 posts...
Don't forget the purple mk xii AP beam arrays from fluid dynamics!
This guy puts it well. After upgrading a few things to get 1, almost 2, ships functional (upgraded) the motivation to upgrade and setup other ships is mostly evaporated. Because with the ques gone, there's not much to do with them. So I've explored other areas of the game.
Also, we have to face, part of the population decline is that the expansion has no loot drops, it's just one gigantic upgrade-fest.
1) They are Mk XI (unless DR altered that)
2) They were mentioned.
Might be wrong though... it happens
I have 2 main characters, both have all mk xiii or mk xiv gear. My rom has a few bits upgraded to UR/Epic.
I then have a sci that I only started using really since DR and he's got rep stuff and all mk xii mostly.
I've also just started a toon to use for PVP (I get bored of retraining CSV/CRF whenever I want to switch), and he's able to do 10K using mk ix dhc's and gets BO3 crits of 25K with a mk v DBB. I've only just started getting him some rep gear today. I haven't had any issues up until now with any of the DR mission content or mirror invasion. The whole build has up until now been whites and greens, and I didn't even have any active doffs! haha. It really isn't as much about gear as most people think!
I had a funny bug where all my weapons got unslotted when I warped into mirror except for my kinetic cutting beam... 1.5K dps from a single weapon didn't quite cut it. Stuff took way too long to die! hahaha
They are much worse. Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [Acc] [CrtH] [Dmg]
Ouch!!!! hahahaha
Even so... still perfectly useable as a 'free thing'.
And begging the admiralty not to bump you back to Ensign instead of demanding half rewards for "time invested."
Imagine Captain Sisko facing his superiors after losing to the Breen in DS9: "The Changing Face of Evil" and saying:
"I know I completely lost the battle, got the entire fleet blown up and the only reason anyone lived was because the Dominion wanted the survivors to spread fear of their new weapons, but I tried really hard so that should be worth at least half as much as winning."
I'm not a Science guy, but the advice givers in this thread appear to be doing alright. Looks like you have to not be in the tactical mindset, and actually crank up the Part Gens skill to 400.
They work fine, I had a set of 6 (with the Omni-Directional array) on my Rom's Faeht when I was still gearing her (no KCB). Pulled around 15k when I hit up ISA to grab BNPs for the Omega ground set.
Ditto! there's plenty of free gear that is 'good enough'.
I've been experimenting with my sci toon lately, and although a long way off from being happy, I do more dps with tractor beam repulsers than with 6 beam arrays now
Are you kidding me? If its a cruiser, and you dont have access to phantom trait, go a2b. You get technicians in BTran. So long you dont have them, play classic damage control engineer-build without Attackpatterns (faw and such is in those cases more important), as DCEs can easily obtained by doffing engineering, which is one of the easiest to max out (many high cxp-missions), and with t3 you already got 2 blue ones (1 from ferra, 1 from replicator). The lv40 assault is a prime example for this.
But what you posted is even easier. The cruisers have limited options -they can get into trouble, at least on unexperienced players-, but sci ships? They are versatile. Put some torps on it, get some projectile doffs (1 you get form nimbus with leveling, the others from military doffing, also fast and easily level-able), that way you can neglect weapon power. For the cheap build get a photon-torp (many missions reward them, rapidfiring transphasic is also good), the breen-cluster-torp (episode) and hapeng-torp (mission/doffing depending on faction). Max power to aux and shield, neglect engines and weapons. Add some TT and torpabilities. And now you have many, many sci-abilities, normally enough for 2 TSS, 2 HE, 2 GW. Usually you can even throw a TBR in.
Later one would use rom hyper, breen cluster (it simply rocks) and gravimetric/neutronic/bio-torp.
Now comes the big point of the sciships: if you cant dps them out of the universe, you can simply stall them for eternity. Probeduty in a sciship shouldnt be a problem. And a single cube knocking on you shouldnt be a problem either. Play "where angels fear to thread" and you get a good anti-borg shield. Hell, you could even go and add some flowcaps and a TR3 on sciships and deactivate the entire probespawn, so you dont even have to trouble yourself with their shields.
Seriously,as long as its just a timer for optional (like ISA and I think kase too) its very easy with a sciship to do. Might not be fast, but you will finish it. I had a isa today were my 11k designstudy-scyer (I need the trait^^) was the best ship, the next one had 7k, and the worst 4k. We had 3min left on optional. Would have been more if I had used my trainbuild, but currently I play with partgens. With drainbuild (roughly flowcaps+TR3 for mobs) sphere totally dead and so only the hull to shoot. Would have definetly been faster.
But point being, for advanced, Sci ships are enough to do it. You just have to think a bit out of the box.
Less tactical slots can always either be compensated (to a degree it allows every ship to exceed 10k) by either a2b (doffs are free) or torps+sci-abilities (obviously for sciships only). Now the phantom-trait gives even handicapped cruisers a chance to get by without a2b, though that isnt for free.
But seriously, at least consider to l2p...
Dude, excellent info, but you should cut the leet attitude, it doesn't help or add to anything. You obviously know a ton about the game, but I think your nuts if you think those ships would work great in this brave new world. So what if they can tractor repel something, it doesn't mean TRIBBLE if they can't kill it.
If things were working well the ques would be full of people, and people would be raving about how much more fun things are.
But it's exactly the opposite, except for a couple overplayed ques, it's a GD wasteland out there. Good luck getting omega marks these days, what is it 9k or something needed for the gear?
It's frightening to me (because I actually like this game) and I'll bet it's frightening to many others (maybe you too) because my $$ spending on the game went through the floor, and I hear the same thing from other people too. Not out of any sort of BS revenge thing but because we are simply not motivated. And what's worse is I haven't seen any hint whatsoever that they think this is worth attention.
great info link!!!
You're right, that wouldn't be fun. I really don't see what kind of point you could be making with a comment like that.
As have I. Read back in the thread - I mentioned that my builds aren't ready for Elite-level play yet. I spend most of my time in Advanced queues in space, so that's where my perspective is coming from. And my perspective remains that I have no problem with the occasional queue failure, and don't expect to be rewarded for said failure.
I read / heard a lot of players worried about their investments prior to DR, but much less after. With the gear and ship upgrade systems, all it's taking is time to adjust to the new difficulty (that is, unless you're specifically buying new T6 ships, or speeding up the upgrade requirements with ZEN-to-dilithium conversions and other C-Store purchases). None of my ships are being left behind as a result of DR's difficulty change - even my freebie Ambassador, which is locked at T5 and can't be upgraded, is still more than capable of end-game play.
For sure, the goalposts were moved on the players, but that comes with a level cap increase. It'll just take time for players to level up, get the specializations, etc. Nothing, at least as far as I've felt, has been really lost since the update.
Very, very well put. Agreed
I think the main point of frustration for players is that, for the first time in years, things have gotten more difficult. It will take time for the playerbase to adapt, but it will happen. Players who have gotten used to their builds being plenty good for the old queues are having to put in more work. And all players - myself included - are having to level up and earn the new goodies. This will all take time, and it won't be instantaneous.
As the weeks pass, the 'average player' will be better. We all just need to put in some time, adjust our builds, and play the game. Demanding that Advanced be made easier by reducing fail conditions, or that rewards be increased for Normal-level and/or queue fails, is in part about players wanting all of the new things right away. That isn't how an MMO should be designed. Only the people who were top-dogs prior to DR (very much not a group I could include myself in) should be able to adjust with minimal time and effort. The rest of us will need to push ourselves to get that little bit better, with time.
I went back to advanced yesterday, after finishing upgrading my best ship to mk 14 epic and ultra rare. My build is compatible with those I've read online from people here assuring that this is enough for advanced even with gear much worse than mine. I solo'd the first 2 spheres in ISA easy enough. I went to help with the generators, and noticed someone was shooting the transformer even though all the generators were still up. Sure enough we failed, though long enough into the mission to feel like a bummer. The moral of this story is that no matter how well you're equipped, how well you've learned to play, you are still only one of five random people. Unless someone here is suggesting that ISA is soloable and that we should have people carried through the mission by those who can, the queue for advanced is broken.
The mission is doable with a team of people who know what they're doing with decent equipment. But the failure option just makes it a poor choice of play when you're are quite likely to fail due to not having five people who can do it. I will not spend my limited time losing and not getting rewards due to the broken system. And people agree with me. Look at the queues for Conduit. Very few people play on advanced now. Almost none on Borg Disconnected. Conduit elite used to have many people playing it; now I see five people in the whole queue. This is a direct result of poor design choices made by our dev team. Trying to excuse it or promote this poor decision is just hurting the game and the majority of players.
So now I can vaporize anything in normal mode but still can't play advanced. Yeah, this has been a rousing success.
I might work at my attitude if I wouldnt have to read such nonsense like your second sentence. Sure you can with little investment do much with free stuff. This game isnt p2w, but l2p. Sure, stuffing money in the game helps, but its like polynominal equations. Money would be linear, while l2p would be at least cubic.
Seriously, if my makeshift-scyer can pug with 12k, those two ship can do over 10k too. And for the starter you can do 6-7k plus CC the hell out of it, and dont forget this is a teameffort, not singleplayer.
The problem is, that the game itself doesnt teach anything, nor does it redirect to real guides or builds. If it would, the DR-Difficulty would have been implemented with LoR and the queues were soaring with players.
Actually...
For as long as there are queues you are likely to end up in an average team consisting of:
- One DPS King testing his latest build
- One none DPS minded veteran on a more or less effective build but who knows what hes doing.
- One casual who brings an average perhaps undergeared build and is there for the fun pew pew.
- One player who brings in a new toon and can only contribute far below his capabilities and is just there for the grind.
- One totally new player not knowing whats going on and jumping on the first chance to mess things up.
Switch one or two but that constellation is not going to change ever. The way the old elite were designed those teams were able to do just fine, perhaps at the cost of an optional, but everybody was happy.
But now?
The entire team plays against each other because of the way the fail criteria are designed. DPS timers in the background and one direct mistake fails in front of you.
There is hardly any teamwork involved and hardly any challenge because it just depends on how many of a kind from above you end up in your latest queue.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yep, been done. You need to be able to do about 35-40k DPS and 6k H/S PPS minimum, but it can be done. I cannot be bothered to do it mind, but I do know how to.
Blast initial Cube + Spheres, go right side, nail Cube, ~10% or less on each gen (as long as you do not kill it) once all four gens are done take all 4 out at once, nail transformer as hard as you can, move to left side, repeat, nail Gateway, back to right side to take out the Tac Cube.
Or, if you can take Gate and Tac Cube at once, go left first, right second.
So are you saying 'advanced' should be completable by a team of players who have no idea what they're doing? How is that advanced in any way?