So are you saying 'advanced' should be completable by a team of players who have no idea what they're doing? How is that advanced in any way?
Yes, it should be completable. That means optionals that are optional. We had this, just a few weeks ago and they called it elite. That's all I want.
It's advanced and not elite because it is more difficult, with extra ships with more hp. That is one way it is advanced.
The queues show this problem. Conduit went from over a hundred people on elite to five on advanced.
The queues are how most people play these missions. That means pugs, and that means pugs need to be able to complete or the whole thing is a waste of resources. If they build it, and they will not come, they did something wrong.
Elite is the version you want.
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
Yes, it should be completable. That means optionals that are optional. We had this, just a few weeks ago and they called it elite. That's all I want.
It's advanced and not elite because it is more difficult, with extra ships with more hp. That is one way it is advanced.
The queues show this problem. Conduit went from over a hundred people on elite to five on advanced.
The queues are how most people play these missions. That means pugs, and that means pugs need to be able to complete or the whole thing is a waste of resources. If they build it, and they will not come, they did something wrong.
Elite is the version you want.
But...
advanced
adˈvɑːnst/Submit adjective
far on or ahead in development or progress.
I would say that understanding the objective of something is a 'basic' requirement, but you're saying that people who don't know what to do should be able to do advanced?
People failed the old Elite? Even queue groups were ignoring the 10% method in ISE and not failing anymore.
My newbie buddy grinded ISE in his undergeared and poorly built free Star Cruiser and never saw a fail. When I took him along in a pre-made group, he parsed at around 5k. Not bad for somebody who insisted on taking two copies of A2SIF because according to him, the 15s cooldown was too long. :rolleyes:
He also wouldn't bind anything. Even after taking things like EPtW at my suggestion, he clicks. He'd click EPtW before he clicked FAW. He'd click EPtS when he was being shot at. I have no idea how he did alright like that.
The start of this thread is the OP complaining about how a PUG broke up because of server lag. If everyone was 'advanced players' you would tried the mission again.
The PUGger that left early is wrong. The fact that the OP threw themselves back in the fire without back up was wrong as well.
The fail was because of a disconnect that was not intended. So do the mission again and not get disconnected or fix your internet connection.
Advanced should be as difficult as Old Elite. Elite should be where we separate the men from the boys. There should be fail conditions for most of the Advanced STFs like letting I.K.S. Kang be destroyed in The Cure Found or letting 10 probes get through the vortex in Khitomer Vortex, but optionals should be optional for Advanced.
Exactly. Players need Advanced to be achievable without major tech upgrade and without tons of rep gear, because they need to beat Advanced to get the materials for the upgrades and the neurals for rep gear to then beat Elite. Or have the normal ones changed to give out those rewards.
Exactly. Players need Advanced to be achievable without major tech upgrade and without tons of rep gear, because they need to beat Advanced to get the materials for the upgrades and the neurals for rep gear to then beat Elite. Or have the normal ones changed to give out those rewards.
You can do an ASTF capable build from mission reward and loot drop gear, you do not need tech upgrades or rep stuff.
I think the problem is not so much that they don't know what they are doing. But when a level 50 player enters a advance stf he is scaled to level 60 (which shouldn't scale to 60 in the first place not a level 60 content). The advance queues unlock at 50 but scale you to level 60 why?
So that level 50 player might be strong at 50 but scaled to 60 makes him a weak player in my eyes. The advance should not scale to level 60. The only stuff to scale to 60 should be elite content. That is why elite unlocks at level 60 not 50.
I would say that understanding the objective of something is a 'basic' requirement, but you're saying that people who don't know what to do should be able to do advanced?
They were elite a few weeks ago. Pull the definition for "elite" off da internets.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I have read large parts of the thread and I think the problem lies within the players. Players are nonlogical beings, however a player has to go to an advance queue from time to time to get an impression how well he is doing. This said, queues have to fail from time to time.
And then there are the kids, the greatest problem in any mmo game. People just jumping in whatever game they think they are cool with. From World of Tanks to SWToR, those players are the problem, ruining everybodys fun. Just because they have no clue what they are doing, but they think they are great. And the game mechanics have to deal with those people. The problem is not that you can't tell them what to do, the problem is, they won't listen. They don't care. No matter how often you try. A solution would be a winrate cap for queus. You have to win say >80% of your normal queue matches to get to advanced. Of course it has drawbacks. It sets back people knowing what they are doing. But for the greater good, there a far more bad players than good players who just started the game.
So yes, it's the games fault that it can't handle the players fault.
It really should be simple, something along these lines would keep everyone happy:
Normal
Basic objectives and no optionals. All enemies are scaled accordingly with what a newbie Lvl. 50 player could be expected to fight. Single "boss" level enemy to present more challenge in later stages of STF.
Rewards at minimum but allow for some extra rewards such as BNP's to be rewarded at random to select players to allow newbies a chance to progress with rep gear etc.
Advanced
Primary objectives as with Normal but now added optional objectives which if completed give extra rewards at the end of the mission.
Added timer on the whole mission, a reasonable length of time to allow completion of all objectives by a pug group (usually 15 mins is adequate, any longer and people loose interest).
NPCs have higher HPs, will spawn faster or will be other a higher standard than on normal.
Some level of understanding of the basic mission requirements are required to be successful.
Rewards are higher with guarantee of items such as BNPs and rare crafting materials is small numbers.
Elite
Primary objectives as above. Optionals are now mandatory as well to not fail the mission and these could be randomly selected from a set list - nobody know what's coming.
Time limit probably reduced as well.
NPCs have much higher HPs, spawn in much bigger numbers and will use high level powers and abilities throughout the mission. The exact NPCs that spawn should have some degree of randomness to increase difficulty (imagine KSE with spheres that shoot back heading for the vortex not hapless probes.
Teamwork and clear understanding of the mission required or you will fail. Pugs probably will fail this unless they are all highly skilled.
To be able to successfully combat the NPCs in this type of mission you need the right kit and more importantly you need to know more than just spamming abilities.
This level of difficulty sorts the men from the boys.
Players need Advanced to be achievable without major tech upgrade and without tons of rep gear, because they need to beat Advanced to get the materials for the upgrades and the neurals for rep gear to then beat Elite.
The entire premise of your post is wrong. Advanced is achievable without tech upgrades or rep gear. You do not need BNPs/APCs to get the best gear, nor do most of the rep gear need BNPs/APCs.
It is not the tools we use which make us good, but rather how we employ them. Blaming failure on not having BNP/APC required gear is a sad and transparent attempt to absolve unskilled and uninformed players of responsibility.
That's not necessarily on you, but the members of your team. You could be a perfectly competent +10k with no rep or Fleet gear (which is easily attainable with a modicum of knowledge and skill), but if the rest of your team decked out in maxed out pre-DR gear (Mk XII URs, rep sets, Lobi toys) still only pull 5k each, at 30k DPS the team will fail without 10% or some very impressive crowd control. Which of course would require knowledge and skill that said team members are lacking.
They were Elite a few years ago, a few weeks ago they were so easy shuttles and T1s could do them.
The game defined the people and missions as elite just last month.
It's the drastic shift from being called elite to now being called failure which has killed the queues. And which I think will kill the game sometime this spring if not changed.
That would make me sad.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
So, I just pugged it with a Sciship, 2 gw and a tbr on board, something every lower dps-sci-ship is capable of mounting. Mainweapon were torps.
I pugged ISA and KASA, in both we did the optionals and especially in ISA being a Sciship came in handy. Those 3 in the ISA-log with <4k should not be allowed to complete an advanced mission, unfortunately I had to pull them through (CC the mobs for "eternity") to proof a point.
Technically, no one did 10k, the sciship (as mentioned in another post a makeshift-scryer, which I need to level) saved the day and unfortunately won against 2 escorts and 2 cruisers. With torps...
What shall I say, the numbers for both otherside-guys are of course to low (map to big), the numbers from myside are pretty much correct.
Again, we beat optional, we didnt have any 10k player with us (technically). I also had only to take the first left probes, then I took on the transformers, cubes and spheres spawning, as myside2 was not capable of doint that. At least he was able to destroy all probes (with 3.3k and a bit GW).
The only point valid of those whining about advanced being to hard is that the rewards are to low. Raise the rewards, leave everything else how it is, and it is fine. You dont need high dps to finish, you dont even need it to complete optionals for some mission.
The game defined the people and missions as elite just last month.
It's the drastic shift from being called elite to now being called failure which has killed the queues. And which I think will kill the game sometime this spring if not changed.
That would make me sad.
Well, many ppl call themselves elite, now they know where they belong.
The game defined the people and missions as elite just last month.
It's the drastic shift from being called elite to now being called failure which has killed the queues. And which I think will kill the game sometime this spring if not changed.
That would make me sad.
Nothing that can be beaten by a T1 ship can be called Elite.
It will pick back up, players will improve and by spring we will all be back to merrily completing ASTFs like they were Pre-DR ESTFs. Because they are - all DR altered fundamentally is DPS required to do it.
The game defined the people and missions as elite just last month.
It's the drastic shift from being called elite to now being called failure which has killed the queues. And which I think will kill the game sometime this spring if not changed.
That would make me sad.
So this goes back to one of my earlier points, that players are a little concerned with not being top-dogs anymore. In several of the dev blogs on this topic, Cryptic said that the old Elite had become far too easy - it didn't fit the definition of "elite" anymore. So the new Elite more suits that full-end-game state. Players need to become better - not just the self-appointed leaders of the queue group, but the entire pug.
Slowly, I've noticed the pug become better over the last few weeks, as players are adjusting. I basically only pug, or go into a pug with a one or two fleetmates pre-teamed. Even in a pure pug, I am seeing a big increase in the success rate of Advanced queues. This is all a temporary problem, and will fix itself as players either a) adjust and gear up for the new difficulty, or b) learn the hard way that they're playing above their level of capability.
Advanced, as has been pointed out, requires a knowledge of what to do and how to play. See this specific dev blog on the subject. Quote from the blog:
We hope you were paying attention during your playthroughs of Normal before jumping into Advanced. Beginning with the release of Delta Rising, failure to complete these formerly optional objectives will result in the immediate failure of the mission. Upon failure, you will receive a portion of the rewards that you would have received for completing the mission, so you still are rewarded for your time spent in the event.
This is how Advanced was intended to play. Players should not be jumping up a difficulty level in queues until they are properly geared, and understand the objectives. I say that, placing myself in that group - I will not allow myself into Elite, until I can properly play Elite.
Well, many ppl call themselves elite, now they know where they belong.
I snipped the self serving stuff that didn't address the issue, and left this elitist TRIBBLE that is at the heart of your problem. You actually think it is a problem that players don't know what a shlub they are and should be more aware of what a TRIBBLE player they are. I do believe you believe this. So the problem in this case is you; wanting people to lose over and over until spring (your fellow traveller says).
The problem that you didn't solve or address is even though you succeeded with a sub par group that the rest of us will too. Random people generate random results. You are convinced this level is right but I don't. One of us is correct. That person is me.
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
I am on at the same time every single day for almost 3 years. I have never ever seen anything like that.
At this rate I look for a massive cash grab in January/February. Then an announcement after the anniversary that there will be no future content added to the game. Staff all diverted to other projects. Maybe it can continue for 6 months to a year after that before the license gets pulled.
I have been an absolute cheerleader for the game and indeed for cryptic for a long time. And this is the first time that I am concerned. I doubt there will ever be another Trek mmo so I really want this one to last.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I snipped the self serving stuff that didn't address the issue, and left this elitist TRIBBLE that is at the heart of your problem. You actually think it is a problem that players don't know what a shlub they are and should be more aware of what a TRIBBLE player they are. I do believe you believe this.
Yepp, I do. Those three with from the ISA-log. They didnt do dps. They didnt heal. They didnt tank. They didnt CC.
Those ppl dont deserve to win advanced, and in all honesty, I dislike that I had to pull the through.
You can do much with very little investment, just by reading a guide for 10minutes or ask a better player (I wont say veteran, as most veterans seem to have very little knowledge about this game) for help. But ignorant, bad players dont deserve to win.
As long as its just a bad/new/unknowledgeable player, I like to help. But if ignorance comes in play, they should just go to hell.
And ply, CCing the enemy, and knowing they come by rotating the camera, is so trivial it cant be called a secret or a trick. Its a logical conclusion...
The entire premise of your post is wrong. Advanced is achievable without tech upgrades or rep gear. You do not need BNPs/APCs to get the best gear, nor do most of the rep gear need BNPs/APCs.
It is not the tools we use which make us good, but rather how we employ them. Blaming failure on not having BNP/APC required gear is a sad and transparent attempt to absolve unskilled and uninformed players of responsibility.
That's not necessarily on you, but the members of your team. You could be a perfectly competent +10k with no rep or Fleet gear (which is easily attainable with a modicum of knowledge and skill), but if the rest of your team decked out in maxed out pre-DR gear (Mk XII URs, rep sets, Lobi toys) still only pull 5k each, at 30k DPS the team will fail without 10% or some very impressive crowd control. Which of course would require knowledge and skill that said team members are lacking.
The problem is entirely that these people don't know what they're doing.
These are exactly the same type of people who, back in the days of the 10% method because we didn't have enough DPS, would cause ISEs to fail.
For those who don't do sufficient DPS to blindly blast everything, we are back in those days. Even down to the 10% method being the way to win.
You also forgot the rest of my post about advance scaled to 60 when it is not elite content. If it was elite content it would of unlocked at level 60 not 50. The level 50 player can't do level 60 content but he is aloud to do advance because it is not elite content. So why does advance scale to elite when it is not elite lol. It should scale to level 55 to give it the challenge.
This is how Advanced was intended to play. Players should not be jumping up a difficulty level in queues until they are properly geared, and understand the objectives. I say that, placing myself in that group - I will not allow myself into Elite, until I can properly play Elite.
The huge flaw in the logic of the normal > advanced etc is simply this rewards vs time spent
normal and advanced timers are the same everything is the same .. the reward is not and this is a casual q system its not for people who want to play hard nothing is longer then 15 minutes in the q they are get in and get out kill a pile of stuff quick and take your loots and do something that is actually fun. People are playing advanced for the rewards at the end not for fun and not for challenge.
next normal does not train you for advanced not really your going to faill the first time you go into an advanced from a normal regardless of how well you have been paying attention because there was no autofail option.
so by default people are going to be surprised regardless because the objectives are 'optional' lol
the plan was poorly conceived from the get go people may over time adapt or not but judging by the fact that no one does the normals (literally i was trying to relearn rh'ilo station i had to q an elite.. good thing i have equipment but i didnt know the objectives I know why they failed.. it was me not having done it for 6 months and not remembering how to do it..)
some people do advanced
and some people do elite.. more are in the elite then advanced right now them being in good gear does not stop them lol
the only time anyone joins a normal q ever is in an event when the rewards are better and then no one can be bothered to do the advanced because they can expend less energy and do it faster and get their reward
the mistake here is thinking people actually want a challenge even those saying "we want it to be harder" are q'ing normals and advanced (not elite) so obviously at the end of the day what they want is the reward and not the challenge.
so will it change? maybe but probably not. These players existed before delta rising and they will exist after it. The question is will they keep playing? maybe .. but people dont like "loosing" everytime they try something and ultimately quit.
I snipped the self serving stuff that didn't address the issue, and left this elitist TRIBBLE that is at the heart of your problem. You actually think it is a problem that players don't know what a shlub they are and should be more aware of what a TRIBBLE player they are. I do believe you believe this. So the problem in this case is you; wanting people to lose over and over until spring (your fellow traveller says).
The problem that you didn't solve or address is even though you succeeded with a sub par group that the rest of us will too. Random people generate random results. You are convinced this level is right but I don't. One of us is correct. That person is me.
Or, you could make yourself better and NOT expect the rest of us to carry your special snowflakeness. Anyone playing competently finds ISA very easy if not soloable - I have already given the method of how to solo it.
You however, are not willing to improve as a player, and instead think your special snowflakeness is correct.
Once you are willing to improve, we will dump information on you abundantly, because we make it our STO job to take what we learn and give it to others who ask for it. Until then, as you are wilfully a special snowflake, we will treat as such you deserve to be for bringing a bad build and player into content beyond your level - I call that deliberate trolling of teammates myself.
I am on at the same time every single day for almost 3 years. I have never ever seen anything like that.
At this rate I look for a massive cash grab in January/February. Then an announcement after the anniversary that there will be no future content added to the game. Staff all diverted to other projects. Maybe it can continue for 6 months to a year after that before the license gets pulled.
I have been an absolute cheerleader for the game and indeed for cryptic for a long time. And this is the first time that I am concerned. I doubt there will ever be another Trek mmo so I really want this one to last.
It will recover, there will always be fans of Star Trek who want an ST game.
STO however, makes itself out as not an ST game apart from background, and thus... well, you have to look at it as a game, and on those grounds it only really has character customisation left in its favour. And its economy, but who plays a game for that...
Up to the end of September I ran the omega queues but when I get a pm like this "Slot off frag face you f*****g suck" or some variation of this 4 or 5 times out of 10 with no comments on what I did wrong, how do I improve?
With the changes to the queues I agree that normal should have either a small chance, 5% or less, to give the crafting item, BNP's or APC's or whatever, or the player gets a choice of 1 crafting item OR the marks OR the VR mat not all of them. To get all of them you should go to advanced. As it stands right now BNP's and APC's are the only ones, to my knowledge, that you can get only from the queues.
And no I will not rejoin the queues again because of my experiences.
I snipped the self serving stuff that didn't address the issue, and left this elitist TRIBBLE that is at the heart of your problem. You actually think it is a problem that players don't know what a shlub they are and should be more aware of what a TRIBBLE player they are. I do believe you believe this. So the problem in this case is you; wanting people to lose over and over until spring (your fellow traveller says).
The problem that you didn't solve or address is even though you succeeded with a sub par group that the rest of us will too. Random people generate random results. You are convinced this level is right but I don't. One of us is correct. That person is me.
QFT. Most people railing against reverting the damage system at the heart of all their comments is an elitist core of self-gratifying snobbery. They don't actually have a point or a leg to stand on, and just want others to suffer so they can feel greater.
Up to the end of September I ran the omega queues but when I get a pm like this "Slot off frag face you f*****g suck" or some variation of this 4 or 5 times out of 10 with no comments on what I did wrong, how do I improve?
With the changes to the queues I agree that normal should have either a small chance, 5% or less, to give the crafting item, BNP's or APC's or whatever, or the player gets a choice of 1 crafting item OR the marks OR the VR mat not all of them to get all of them you should go to advanced. As it stands right now BNP's and APC's are the only ones, to my knowledge, that you can get only from the queues.
And no I will not rejoin the queues again because of my experiences.
You ignore the Cee yoU Next Tuesday who wont help, work out where you went wrong, and you fix it. The good news is it will only take time and practice, you very rarely see a build that makes you think "WTF? Scrap it mate..." Boff slots far more frequently, but gear is nearly always good enough for what people want to do.
Normally, I launch into a very off topic post covering practically every bit of knowledge I think to remember, but, right now I simply don't have enough information from you to help...
QFT. Most people railing against reverting the damage system at the heart of all their comments is an elitist core of self-gratifying snobbery. They don't actually have a point or a leg to stand on, and just want others to suffer so they can feel greater.
I want them to actually make it difficult, not make it into a DPS race. I want NPCs good enough to place on merit in a tournament PvP team for Elite difficulty, about myself for Advanced, and a typical player skill level (with VPvP or worse gear for fairness) in Normal.
What we actually have is Normal can be done blindfolded, Advanced can be done while quite drunk and Elite actually requiring paying mild attention to being Elite in terms of DPS required. No one likes how it is.
Comments
Yes, it should be completable. That means optionals that are optional. We had this, just a few weeks ago and they called it elite. That's all I want.
It's advanced and not elite because it is more difficult, with extra ships with more hp. That is one way it is advanced.
The queues show this problem. Conduit went from over a hundred people on elite to five on advanced.
The queues are how most people play these missions. That means pugs, and that means pugs need to be able to complete or the whole thing is a waste of resources. If they build it, and they will not come, they did something wrong.
Elite is the version you want.
But...
I would say that understanding the objective of something is a 'basic' requirement, but you're saying that people who don't know what to do should be able to do advanced?
The way I see it those groups should fail the way they failed in old elite and not the way it is now.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
My newbie buddy grinded ISE in his undergeared and poorly built free Star Cruiser and never saw a fail. When I took him along in a pre-made group, he parsed at around 5k. Not bad for somebody who insisted on taking two copies of A2SIF because according to him, the 15s cooldown was too long. :rolleyes:
He also wouldn't bind anything. Even after taking things like EPtW at my suggestion, he clicks. He'd click EPtW before he clicked FAW. He'd click EPtS when he was being shot at. I have no idea how he did alright like that.
The PUGger that left early is wrong. The fact that the OP threw themselves back in the fire without back up was wrong as well.
The fail was because of a disconnect that was not intended. So do the mission again and not get disconnected or fix your internet connection.
Exactly. Players need Advanced to be achievable without major tech upgrade and without tons of rep gear, because they need to beat Advanced to get the materials for the upgrades and the neurals for rep gear to then beat Elite. Or have the normal ones changed to give out those rewards.
You can do an ASTF capable build from mission reward and loot drop gear, you do not need tech upgrades or rep stuff.
So that level 50 player might be strong at 50 but scaled to 60 makes him a weak player in my eyes. The advance should not scale to level 60. The only stuff to scale to 60 should be elite content. That is why elite unlocks at level 60 not 50.
They were elite a few weeks ago. Pull the definition for "elite" off da internets.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
They were Elite a few years ago, a few weeks ago they were so easy shuttles and T1s could do them.
And then there are the kids, the greatest problem in any mmo game. People just jumping in whatever game they think they are cool with. From World of Tanks to SWToR, those players are the problem, ruining everybodys fun. Just because they have no clue what they are doing, but they think they are great. And the game mechanics have to deal with those people. The problem is not that you can't tell them what to do, the problem is, they won't listen. They don't care. No matter how often you try. A solution would be a winrate cap for queus. You have to win say >80% of your normal queue matches to get to advanced. Of course it has drawbacks. It sets back people knowing what they are doing. But for the greater good, there a far more bad players than good players who just started the game.
So yes, it's the games fault that it can't handle the players fault.
Normal
Basic objectives and no optionals. All enemies are scaled accordingly with what a newbie Lvl. 50 player could be expected to fight. Single "boss" level enemy to present more challenge in later stages of STF.
Rewards at minimum but allow for some extra rewards such as BNP's to be rewarded at random to select players to allow newbies a chance to progress with rep gear etc.
Advanced
Primary objectives as with Normal but now added optional objectives which if completed give extra rewards at the end of the mission.
Added timer on the whole mission, a reasonable length of time to allow completion of all objectives by a pug group (usually 15 mins is adequate, any longer and people loose interest).
NPCs have higher HPs, will spawn faster or will be other a higher standard than on normal.
Some level of understanding of the basic mission requirements are required to be successful.
Rewards are higher with guarantee of items such as BNPs and rare crafting materials is small numbers.
Elite
Primary objectives as above. Optionals are now mandatory as well to not fail the mission and these could be randomly selected from a set list - nobody know what's coming.
Time limit probably reduced as well.
NPCs have much higher HPs, spawn in much bigger numbers and will use high level powers and abilities throughout the mission. The exact NPCs that spawn should have some degree of randomness to increase difficulty (imagine KSE with spheres that shoot back heading for the vortex not hapless probes.
Teamwork and clear understanding of the mission required or you will fail. Pugs probably will fail this unless they are all highly skilled.
To be able to successfully combat the NPCs in this type of mission you need the right kit and more importantly you need to know more than just spamming abilities.
This level of difficulty sorts the men from the boys.
The entire premise of your post is wrong. Advanced is achievable without tech upgrades or rep gear. You do not need BNPs/APCs to get the best gear, nor do most of the rep gear need BNPs/APCs.
It is not the tools we use which make us good, but rather how we employ them. Blaming failure on not having BNP/APC required gear is a sad and transparent attempt to absolve unskilled and uninformed players of responsibility.
That's not necessarily on you, but the members of your team. You could be a perfectly competent +10k with no rep or Fleet gear (which is easily attainable with a modicum of knowledge and skill), but if the rest of your team decked out in maxed out pre-DR gear (Mk XII URs, rep sets, Lobi toys) still only pull 5k each, at 30k DPS the team will fail without 10% or some very impressive crowd control. Which of course would require knowledge and skill that said team members are lacking.
The problem is entirely that these people don't know what they're doing.
These are exactly the same type of people who, back in the days of the 10% method because we didn't have enough DPS, would cause ISEs to fail.
For those who don't do sufficient DPS to blindly blast everything, we are back in those days. Even down to the 10% method being the way to win.
The game defined the people and missions as elite just last month.
It's the drastic shift from being called elite to now being called failure which has killed the queues. And which I think will kill the game sometime this spring if not changed.
That would make me sad.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I pugged ISA and KASA, in both we did the optionals and especially in ISA being a Sciship came in handy. Those 3 in the ISA-log with <4k should not be allowed to complete an advanced mission, unfortunately I had to pull them through (CC the mobs for "eternity") to proof a point.
CombatLogReaderInfected Space[17:41] Dmg(DPS)
Woodwhity 10.427.919(9.903)
OKOne 9.212.248(8.707)
Bad1 3.361.500(3.174)
Bad2 2.832.175(2.676)
Bad3 1.792.152(1.792)
Technically, no one did 10k, the sciship (as mentioned in another post a makeshift-scryer, which I need to level) saved the day and unfortunately won against 2 escorts and 2 cruisers. With torps...
CombatLogReaderKhitomer Space[20:21] Dmg(DPS)
Woodwhity 11.018.314(9.024)
Otherside1 6.705.543(5.496)
Myside1 4.690.319(3.844)
Otherside2 4.364.328(4.785)
Myside2 3.355.831 (3.355)
What shall I say, the numbers for both otherside-guys are of course to low (map to big), the numbers from myside are pretty much correct.
Again, we beat optional, we didnt have any 10k player with us (technically). I also had only to take the first left probes, then I took on the transformers, cubes and spheres spawning, as myside2 was not capable of doint that. At least he was able to destroy all probes (with 3.3k and a bit GW).
The only point valid of those whining about advanced being to hard is that the rewards are to low. Raise the rewards, leave everything else how it is, and it is fine. You dont need high dps to finish, you dont even need it to complete optionals for some mission.
Well, many ppl call themselves elite, now they know where they belong.
Nothing that can be beaten by a T1 ship can be called Elite.
It will pick back up, players will improve and by spring we will all be back to merrily completing ASTFs like they were Pre-DR ESTFs. Because they are - all DR altered fundamentally is DPS required to do it.
N00bs will (or at least should) always struggle.
So this goes back to one of my earlier points, that players are a little concerned with not being top-dogs anymore. In several of the dev blogs on this topic, Cryptic said that the old Elite had become far too easy - it didn't fit the definition of "elite" anymore. So the new Elite more suits that full-end-game state. Players need to become better - not just the self-appointed leaders of the queue group, but the entire pug.
Slowly, I've noticed the pug become better over the last few weeks, as players are adjusting. I basically only pug, or go into a pug with a one or two fleetmates pre-teamed. Even in a pure pug, I am seeing a big increase in the success rate of Advanced queues. This is all a temporary problem, and will fix itself as players either a) adjust and gear up for the new difficulty, or b) learn the hard way that they're playing above their level of capability.
Advanced, as has been pointed out, requires a knowledge of what to do and how to play. See this specific dev blog on the subject. Quote from the blog:
This is how Advanced was intended to play. Players should not be jumping up a difficulty level in queues until they are properly geared, and understand the objectives. I say that, placing myself in that group - I will not allow myself into Elite, until I can properly play Elite.
I snipped the self serving stuff that didn't address the issue, and left this elitist TRIBBLE that is at the heart of your problem. You actually think it is a problem that players don't know what a shlub they are and should be more aware of what a TRIBBLE player they are. I do believe you believe this. So the problem in this case is you; wanting people to lose over and over until spring (your fellow traveller says).
The problem that you didn't solve or address is even though you succeeded with a sub par group that the rest of us will too. Random people generate random results. You are convinced this level is right but I don't. One of us is correct. That person is me.
I logged on this morning at 6:30 am eastern.
There were 30 people playing mirror normal.
10 in CCA, 5 in ISA
ZERO in any other queue.
I am on at the same time every single day for almost 3 years. I have never ever seen anything like that.
At this rate I look for a massive cash grab in January/February. Then an announcement after the anniversary that there will be no future content added to the game. Staff all diverted to other projects. Maybe it can continue for 6 months to a year after that before the license gets pulled.
I have been an absolute cheerleader for the game and indeed for cryptic for a long time. And this is the first time that I am concerned. I doubt there will ever be another Trek mmo so I really want this one to last.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yepp, I do. Those three with from the ISA-log. They didnt do dps. They didnt heal. They didnt tank. They didnt CC.
Those ppl dont deserve to win advanced, and in all honesty, I dislike that I had to pull the through.
You can do much with very little investment, just by reading a guide for 10minutes or ask a better player (I wont say veteran, as most veterans seem to have very little knowledge about this game) for help. But ignorant, bad players dont deserve to win.
As long as its just a bad/new/unknowledgeable player, I like to help. But if ignorance comes in play, they should just go to hell.
And ply, CCing the enemy, and knowing they come by rotating the camera, is so trivial it cant be called a secret or a trick. Its a logical conclusion...
You also forgot the rest of my post about advance scaled to 60 when it is not elite content. If it was elite content it would of unlocked at level 60 not 50. The level 50 player can't do level 60 content but he is aloud to do advance because it is not elite content. So why does advance scale to elite when it is not elite lol. It should scale to level 55 to give it the challenge.
The huge flaw in the logic of the normal > advanced etc is simply this rewards vs time spent
normal and advanced timers are the same everything is the same .. the reward is not and this is a casual q system its not for people who want to play hard nothing is longer then 15 minutes in the q they are get in and get out kill a pile of stuff quick and take your loots and do something that is actually fun. People are playing advanced for the rewards at the end not for fun and not for challenge.
next normal does not train you for advanced not really your going to faill the first time you go into an advanced from a normal regardless of how well you have been paying attention because there was no autofail option.
so by default people are going to be surprised regardless because the objectives are 'optional' lol
the plan was poorly conceived from the get go people may over time adapt or not but judging by the fact that no one does the normals (literally i was trying to relearn rh'ilo station i had to q an elite.. good thing i have equipment but i didnt know the objectives I know why they failed.. it was me not having done it for 6 months and not remembering how to do it..)
some people do advanced
and some people do elite.. more are in the elite then advanced right now them being in good gear does not stop them lol
the only time anyone joins a normal q ever is in an event when the rewards are better and then no one can be bothered to do the advanced because they can expend less energy and do it faster and get their reward
the mistake here is thinking people actually want a challenge even those saying "we want it to be harder" are q'ing normals and advanced (not elite) so obviously at the end of the day what they want is the reward and not the challenge.
so will it change? maybe but probably not. These players existed before delta rising and they will exist after it. The question is will they keep playing? maybe .. but people dont like "loosing" everytime they try something and ultimately quit.
Or, you could make yourself better and NOT expect the rest of us to carry your special snowflakeness. Anyone playing competently finds ISA very easy if not soloable - I have already given the method of how to solo it.
You however, are not willing to improve as a player, and instead think your special snowflakeness is correct.
Once you are willing to improve, we will dump information on you abundantly, because we make it our STO job to take what we learn and give it to others who ask for it. Until then, as you are wilfully a special snowflake, we will treat as such you deserve to be for bringing a bad build and player into content beyond your level - I call that deliberate trolling of teammates myself.
It will recover, there will always be fans of Star Trek who want an ST game.
STO however, makes itself out as not an ST game apart from background, and thus... well, you have to look at it as a game, and on those grounds it only really has character customisation left in its favour. And its economy, but who plays a game for that...
Up to the end of September I ran the omega queues but when I get a pm like this "Slot off frag face you f*****g suck" or some variation of this 4 or 5 times out of 10 with no comments on what I did wrong, how do I improve?
With the changes to the queues I agree that normal should have either a small chance, 5% or less, to give the crafting item, BNP's or APC's or whatever, or the player gets a choice of 1 crafting item OR the marks OR the VR mat not all of them. To get all of them you should go to advanced. As it stands right now BNP's and APC's are the only ones, to my knowledge, that you can get only from the queues.
And no I will not rejoin the queues again because of my experiences.
QFT. Most people railing against reverting the damage system at the heart of all their comments is an elitist core of self-gratifying snobbery. They don't actually have a point or a leg to stand on, and just want others to suffer so they can feel greater.
You ignore the Cee yoU Next Tuesday who wont help, work out where you went wrong, and you fix it. The good news is it will only take time and practice, you very rarely see a build that makes you think "WTF? Scrap it mate..." Boff slots far more frequently, but gear is nearly always good enough for what people want to do.
Normally, I launch into a very off topic post covering practically every bit of knowledge I think to remember, but, right now I simply don't have enough information from you to help...
I want them to actually make it difficult, not make it into a DPS race. I want NPCs good enough to place on merit in a tournament PvP team for Elite difficulty, about myself for Advanced, and a typical player skill level (with VPvP or worse gear for fairness) in Normal.
What we actually have is Normal can be done blindfolded, Advanced can be done while quite drunk and Elite actually requiring paying mild attention to being Elite in terms of DPS required. No one likes how it is.