If you had a weapon that does 100 DPS, and you have one console that increases it by 10%, then it will only give you a total of 110 DPS.
If you have three of those consoles, then they will give you a total of 130 DPS. Each one giving you 10% of 100 DPS.
If they stack, then you would have 110 DPS after the first one, 121 DPS with two, and 133.1 DPS with three.
You can check this by going into a system (like Sol system, or Q'Nos). If you hold the curser over a weapon in the weapons window, it will show a total DPS. If you remove all tac consoles, and look at the total without any, then when you add tac consoles to it, they will each increase by that number, not the total after the console before it.
This is why if you have 5 tac console slots, it is not a big loss to use one of them for an universal console. If they did stack, then that 5th console would offer a much bigger increase.
That is why I said that if they did stack, they would help the Defiant out a lot. And other ships that have only three consoles will be helped a lot as well.
Actually both of you are wrong and right at the same time because both of you are choosing to define stacking the way you want to. It needs a more precise definition.
It would be more correct to say that they stack additively, but they do not stack cumulatively.
If you had a weapon that does 100 DPS, and you have one console that increases it by 10%, then it will only give you a total of 110 DPS.
If you have three of those consoles, then they will give you a total of 130 DPS. Each one giving you 10% of 100 DPS.
If they stack, then you would have 110 DPS after the first one, 121 DPS with two, and 133.1 DPS with three.
You can check this by going into a system (like Sol system, or Q'Nos). If you hold the curser over a weapon in the weapons window, it will show a total DPS. If you remove all tac consoles, and look at the total without any, then when you add tac consoles to it, they will each increase by that number, not the total after the console before it.
This is why if you have 5 tac console slots, it is not a big loss to use one of them for an universal console. If they did stack, then that 5th console would offer a much bigger increase.
That is why I said that if they did stack, they would help the Defiant out a lot. And other ships that have only three consoles will be helped a lot as well.
Diminishing returns are defined by marginal increase. The marginal increase of every (same) Tact Console slotted is always the same. For every Console you're getting Base Damage + (fixed) marginal increase X. Hence, Tact Console stack, without diminishing returns.
Actually both of you are wrong and right at the same time because both of you are choosing to define stacking the way you want to. It needs a more precise definition.
It would be more correct to say that they stack additively, but they do not stack cumulatively.
When playing STO, I see stacking how the game is set up. For example, the skills in your skill tree will stack, but give diminishing returns. Each skill point earned will increase on top of what the ones before it give. However, after every three you spend, the increase is lower.
But for the first three, they will stack by increasing on top of what the previous one added. If the game did it differently, then that is how I would view stacking for STO.
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scimitar dose need nerf and the big one it was op since it came it needs to lose lvl4 tac bof and 1 tac console to be more balanced even after it would be the best dps ship
When playing STO, I see stacking how the game is set up. For example, the skills in your skill tree will stack, but give diminishing returns. Each skill point earned will increase on top of what the ones before it give. However, after every three you spend, the increase is lower.
But for the first three, they will stack by increasing on top of what the previous one added. If the game did it differently, then that is how I would view stacking for STO.
Skills stack additively. They just get more expensive the higher your skill.
See, it's all just perspective and definition.
The only thing in this game with diminishing returns is damage resistance, and for reasons that are obvious.
When playing STO, I see stacking how the game is set up. For example, the skills in your skill tree will stack, but give diminishing returns. Each skill point earned will increase on top of what the ones before it give. However, after every three you spend, the increase is lower.
But for the first three, they will stack by increasing on top of what the previous one added. If the game did it differently, then that is how I would view stacking for STO.
Um, no. Really. See it as bottles. When you have 1 bottle, and the marginal increase is 1 also, then afterwards you'll have 2 bottles. When you get to have, say, 9 bottles, the marginal increase is still 1 bottle. No diminishing returns.
You're confusing the (fixed) marginal increase with how much of a percentage it is on the total. That percentage decreases, of course, but there are still no diminishing returns.
Skills stack additively. They just get more expensive the higher your skill.
See, it's all just perspective and definition.
The only thing in this game with diminishing returns is damage resistance, and for reasons that are obvious.
After you increase past the first three ranks, you get diminishing returns per rank. It doesn't cost you more to increase your rank. The cost is the same, but the effect is lowered.
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After you increase past the first three ranks, you get diminishing returns per rank. It doesn't cost you more to increase your rank. The cost is the same, but the effect is lowered.
Yeah, you're right in that the cost is the same for fewer skill levels the higher you go. I got it the wrong way round.
But still, it's not diminishing returns on the skill points. It's that you get less bang for buck:
in energy specialization, going from 8 to 9 points:
Um, no. Really. See it as bottles. When you have 1 bottle, and the marginal increase is 1 also, then afterwards you'll have 2 bottles. When you get to have, say, 9 bottles, the marginal increase is still 1 bottle. No diminishing returns.
You're confusing the (fixed) marginal increase with how much of a percentage it is on the total. That percentage decreases, of course, but there are still no diminishing returns.
If they stack (according to how the game is set up), then you will have each one increase the total from the one before.
Using bottles will not work because each bottle will not increase the percentage of what was there before. Here we are talking about the effect of the consoles, not the fact that there are more than one. Yes, if there are 5 consoles, then the marginal increase is 1. However, that is only counting the number of consoles, not their effect.
If you think about percentages, and you add 10% to your base income each week, and that is $100, then you would get $110. Now, if that percentage from each week stacked, then the second week you will get $121.
If the percentage didn't stack, and were based off your base pay of $100, then you would only get $110 the second week.
So, the consoles don't stack, but they will each increase your total DPS.
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0.37% crth for 18 in the skill = 0.02 crth per bonus for level 1 to 2, and the same for 8 to 9.
It's more expensive, but it's the same increase.
The diminishing returns don't come from the first to the second rank. They are the same increase for each. The same as going from the second one to the third. However, the diminishing returns come into play when you go from the third to the fourth one. The same is when you go from the sixth to the seventh.
I did say it wrong when I said you get diminishing returns per rank for each rank. I meant to say that it is after every three. From the third to the fourth, and from the sixth to the seventh. Sorry for that.
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If you think about percentages, and you add 10% to your base income each week, and that is $100, then you would get $110. Now, if that percentage from each week stacked, then the second week you will get $121.
If the percentage didn't stack, and were based off your base pay of $100, then you would only get $120 the second week.
So, the consoles don't stack, but they will each increase your total DPS.
To stick with your example, Consoles can be said to yield '+30' (off a base income of $100). That is the same for every Console added. Hence, no diminishing returns, at all. What you're describing is something else (compound interest, to be precise).
The diminishing returns don't come from the first to the second rank. They are the same increase for each. The same as going from the second one to the third. However, the diminishing returns come into play when you go from the third to the fourth one. The same is when you go from the sixth to the seventh.
I did say it wrong when I said you get diminishing returns per rank for each rank. I meant to say that it is after every three. From the third to the fourth, and from the sixth to the seventh. Sorry for that.
Let me reiterate. The cost of specialisation XP to go up in rank increases the higher your rank. There is no diminishing returns the higher the rank and skill.
Hmm rather than nerfing the scim or any high dps ship or power :
how about just"removing" the ability to bind/macro powers into a single button ? (leave the fire all weapons and fire all torp stuff alone though) This would sure make every ship in the game be a challenging and rewarding experience to fly? Games like RIFT do this to some extent to discourage onebutton stuff and discourage hyper efficient power cycling etc :-)
I think the new intel gathering powers cannot be put into a one button keybind/ Macro ... this is a step in the right direction.
actually it does cost more per point. The second three cost more per level than the first three, and give less additional points per level than the first three..... the third three give even less per level than the second three and cost even more per level than the second three. heavy diminishing returns on it per level both in added cost and added points.
If you look at your skill tree, and click on one of the skills, it will pop up a window that shows the info of that skill, and in the bottom right of that window is the Exp cost to increase each rank. That cost is the same for each of the 9 ranks. It will not increase as you increase each of the ranks. Therefore the cost of each rank is the same. You just get less increase per rank.
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Comments
Actually both of you are wrong and right at the same time because both of you are choosing to define stacking the way you want to. It needs a more precise definition.
It would be more correct to say that they stack additively, but they do not stack cumulatively.
Diminishing returns are defined by marginal increase. The marginal increase of every (same) Tact Console slotted is always the same. For every Console you're getting Base Damage + (fixed) marginal increase X. Hence, Tact Console stack, without diminishing returns.
When playing STO, I see stacking how the game is set up. For example, the skills in your skill tree will stack, but give diminishing returns. Each skill point earned will increase on top of what the ones before it give. However, after every three you spend, the increase is lower.
But for the first three, they will stack by increasing on top of what the previous one added. If the game did it differently, then that is how I would view stacking for STO.
Skills stack additively. They just get more expensive the higher your skill.
See, it's all just perspective and definition.
The only thing in this game with diminishing returns is damage resistance, and for reasons that are obvious.
Um, no. Really. See it as bottles. When you have 1 bottle, and the marginal increase is 1 also, then afterwards you'll have 2 bottles. When you get to have, say, 9 bottles, the marginal increase is still 1 bottle. No diminishing returns.
You're confusing the (fixed) marginal increase with how much of a percentage it is on the total. That percentage decreases, of course, but there are still no diminishing returns.
After you increase past the first three ranks, you get diminishing returns per rank. It doesn't cost you more to increase your rank. The cost is the same, but the effect is lowered.
Yeah, you're right in that the cost is the same for fewer skill levels the higher you go. I got it the wrong way round.
But still, it's not diminishing returns on the skill points. It's that you get less bang for buck:
in energy specialization, going from 8 to 9 points:
8 +94 +1.9% +23.74% +1.97%
9 +99 +2.0% +25.01% +2.10%
0.1% crth for 5 in the skill.
going from 1 to 9 points:
1 +18 +0.36% +4.54% +0.31%
2 +36 +0.73% +9.09% +0.65%
0.37% crth for 18 in the skill = 0.02 crth per bonus for level 1 to 2, and the same for 8 to 9.
It's more expensive, but it's the same increase.
If they stack (according to how the game is set up), then you will have each one increase the total from the one before.
Using bottles will not work because each bottle will not increase the percentage of what was there before. Here we are talking about the effect of the consoles, not the fact that there are more than one. Yes, if there are 5 consoles, then the marginal increase is 1. However, that is only counting the number of consoles, not their effect.
If you think about percentages, and you add 10% to your base income each week, and that is $100, then you would get $110. Now, if that percentage from each week stacked, then the second week you will get $121.
If the percentage didn't stack, and were based off your base pay of $100, then you would only get $110 the second week.
So, the consoles don't stack, but they will each increase your total DPS.
The diminishing returns don't come from the first to the second rank. They are the same increase for each. The same as going from the second one to the third. However, the diminishing returns come into play when you go from the third to the fourth one. The same is when you go from the sixth to the seventh.
I did say it wrong when I said you get diminishing returns per rank for each rank. I meant to say that it is after every three. From the third to the fourth, and from the sixth to the seventh. Sorry for that.
To stick with your example, Consoles can be said to yield '+30' (off a base income of $100). That is the same for every Console added. Hence, no diminishing returns, at all. What you're describing is something else (compound interest, to be precise).
Let me reiterate. The cost of specialisation XP to go up in rank increases the higher your rank. There is no diminishing returns the higher the rank and skill.
Rank skill bonus +crth
4 +64 +1.3%
5 +74 +1.5% 10 skill bonus = 0.2% crth
7 +89 +1.8%
9 +99 +2.0% 10 skill bonus = 0.2% crth
Going from 7 to 9 is more expensive in skill XP than 4 to 5, but you get the same bonus and exactly the same result.
how about just"removing" the ability to bind/macro powers into a single button ? (leave the fire all weapons and fire all torp stuff alone though) This would sure make every ship in the game be a challenging and rewarding experience to fly? Games like RIFT do this to some extent to discourage onebutton stuff and discourage hyper efficient power cycling etc :-)
I think the new intel gathering powers cannot be put into a one button keybind/ Macro ... this is a step in the right direction.
If you look at your skill tree, and click on one of the skills, it will pop up a window that shows the info of that skill, and in the bottom right of that window is the Exp cost to increase each rank. That cost is the same for each of the 9 ranks. It will not increase as you increase each of the ranks. Therefore the cost of each rank is the same. You just get less increase per rank.