I quite playing STO for a while because of the added grind in Delta Rising so I thought I'd go play Star Wars: The Old Republic. That game is soooooo grindy. It has amazing class stories but it is bogged down by all sorts of other kiil/fetch quests and other MMO bull****. I hate constantly having to worry about updating to the best gear, having enough credits, running across a huge maps just for a damn cutscene (although usually a really really good one), and so on. That game is 20 percent awesomeness, 80 percent MMO bull****. After playing that, STO doesn't seem quite as grindy anymore lol. I think i'm coming back to STO for the moment. Nevertheless, maybe I'm just not an MMO person. I miss the days when I would just start up a single player game and have an amazing engaging experience without it being like another job.
i guess you never played EQ1 when it first came out, lets just say it took months to get one level so be thankfull things are the way they are in mmo's now. which for a vet like me is a joke:cool:
Im an introvert I deal with people in society sparingly. I have no problem playing MMO's and just letting society in these games do whatevers and play around or beside them lol. Its possible to be a solo player in an MMO. Its actually a misconception that mmo's were created with the idea that people must group to take part or have fun. Soloing in an MMO is allowed and the best games allow for all types of gameplay style not just one.
Oh don't get me wrong, I also like to solo a lot. I'm not saying that having solo gameplay as part of MMOs is impossible or bad. I was just referring to the comment that MMOs are oxymoronic because they have instances where playing with others is needed. It's like saying that McDonalds is oxymoronic because it forces you to eat when you enter.
I quite playing STO for a while because of the added grind in Delta Rising so I thought I'd go play Star Wars: The Old Republic. That game is soooooo grindy. It has amazing class stories but it is bogged down by all sorts of other kiil/fetch quests and other MMO bull****. I hate constantly having to worry about updating to the best gear, having enough credits, running across a huge maps just for a damn cutscene (although usually a really really good one), and so on. That game is 20 percent awesomeness, 80 percent MMO bull****. After playing that, STO doesn't seem quite as grindy anymore lol. I think i'm coming back to STO for the moment. Nevertheless, maybe I'm just not an MMO person. I miss the days when I would just start up a single player game and have an amazing engaging experience without it being like another job.
Yeah. Wouldn't it have been cool if they had just taken that 20% and made a single player game out of it? I know, they could have called it KOTOR 3 and made it a Console release. Such as it is, Old Republic is like trying to make Mass Effect 3 into an mmo to complete the story for the sake of hoping it'll be an even bigger cash cow. Except, now it's 300 years later, nothing you did in 1 and 2 is relevant, you can't play as Sheperd and now he's evil and wants to kill you. And also the games a flop.
I bought the pre order CE of this game way back at release. I'm a huge Star Trek fan. But lately i've been thinking back to the early days of this game. I had a ton of friends i played with all the time. And we had a blast. But when PWE took over they all left and i'm still struggling to keep playing the game. I really miss those early days of this game and all its problems that got worked on. We even had a pc lab that we could use to play together. And the good old Stoked podcast with Chris and Jman. But yeah it seems to get harder to keep on playing mmo's because of the way companies seem to care more about the money than the product and its costumers. Which sounds strange but its true. Back in those ealry days no such thing as rep system. That was what made all my friends quit.
oh and that reminds .me, if you choose to stick around and make a few friends THEY WILL LEAVE, it happens. very few players stick with a game tell it dies. and that is ok. if not fun for you. you leave no other factors count yes that mean money too. you make new friends or you follow your friends to whatever mmo they go to.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I quite playing STO for a while because of the added grind in Delta Rising so I thought I'd go play Star Wars: The Old Republic. That game is soooooo grindy. It has amazing class stories but it is bogged down by all sorts of other kiil/fetch quests and other MMO bull****. I hate constantly having to worry about updating to the best gear, having enough credits, running across a huge maps just for a damn cutscene (although usually a really really good one), and so on. That game is 20 percent awesomeness, 80 percent MMO bull****. After playing that, STO doesn't seem quite as grindy anymore lol. I think i'm coming back to STO for the moment. Nevertheless, maybe I'm just not an MMO person. I miss the days when I would just start up a single player game and have an amazing engaging experience without it being like another job.
STO is probably the least grindy western MMO I have ever played. This is how MMO's work, if people don't like it they will probably never be happy playing any MMO.
Players and devs who try to force "massively multiplayer" = forced grouping
Players who can't fathom that some people want to solo some or all of the time.
"Our/This MMO is solo friendly, you can solo to the level cap"
This pretty much always means you can kill "yard trash" and do solo quests to the level cap. You will not get any endgame uber gear unless you do group dungeons and then raids.
SWTOR and STO fall into the trap of this. GOOD story, but gotta grind through so much TRIBBLE.
Plus with SWTOR, besides the main line quests, for every planet it's the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Go here, kill X amount of this, then move along with the story.
OH wait, STO just did that with 50-60. And people wonder why I have an issue with SWTOR. Least here don't have to subscribe just to post on the forums.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Yeah. Wouldn't it have been cool if they had just taken that 20% and made a single player game out of it? I know, they could have called it KOTOR 3 and made it a Console release. Such as it is, Old Republic is like trying to make Mass Effect 3 into an mmo to complete the story for the sake of hoping it'll be an even bigger cash cow. Except, now it's 300 years later, nothing you did in 1 and 2 is relevant, you can't play as Sheperd and now he's evil and wants to kill you. And also the games a flop.
That "flop" also outearned this game by 10x last year. I'll take actual gameplay vs timebars anyday. I'll bet PWE would take that kind of money ANY day for STO.
Do you realise just how you contradict yourslef here?
If you believe that interaction with people is the main source of your problems than isn't it contradictory that you'd want to escape from those problems in MMOs of all places? I'm sure you realize MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online, so the problem here is not in the MMOs but in your choice of games.
Actually no.
People aren't the main source of MY problems, they are the source of ALL problems.
ALL problems can be traced back to someone somewhere either being malignant or asleep at the switch.
For example, someone just had to contradict me or it wouldn't be a forum. :P
I never wanted STO to be an MMO.
I'd much rather have it a single player online resource game with the option of multiplayer if I'm feeling masochistic.
Sadly it is the only current Star Trek game currently out there.
All MMOs end up being the same. You just pick one with the flavor you like. I like mine Star Trek flavored. Final Fantasy flavor was pretty good for a while too until they made it taste bad.
SWTOR and STO fall into the trap of this. GOOD story, but gotta grind through so much TRIBBLE.
Plus with SWTOR, besides the main line quests, for every planet it's the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Go here, kill X amount of this, then move along with the story.
OH wait, STO just did that with 50-60. And people wonder why I have an issue with SWTOR. Least here don't have to subscribe just to post on the forums.
Well, if you compare it to Diablo 2.... in D2 you can't simply play through the game. Sure, there are no level gates on anything, but enemies have fixed levels, and if you try to rush everything you'll end up fighting enemies higher level than yourself. So you have two options, find a higher level player to help you, or go redo quests you already did once.
Honestly, I think all MMOS give people reasons to replay stuff.
I've played tons of mmo's for many many years, I guess I'm used to the grinding now. Most games have grinding, I guess it's just the way they present it that makes it fun or not. :P
I play SWtoR as my main game now. Its no more of a grind then WoW was. If you think basic WoW and SWTOR are massive grinds you obviously never played Asain MMOs. Ive played a few and some of them are utter jokes, sorta what STO devs are slowly doing to STO.
Atm SWTOR has x12 exp if you sub and have preordered the expansion. Leveled from 1-55 in 2 days just speed running nothing but main class quest. Even without all that you can go 1-20 in a day, 4-5days and fully leveled so its not that bad.
Try WoT and go from tier 1 to 10 THAT is a grind lol.
Atm SWTOR has x12 exp if you sub and have preordered the expansion.
Ironic that SWTOR is pushing 12 x XP and STO just nerfed everyone's XP, no?
For me where the rubber hits the road is this:
Growing up there were 2 sci-fi franchises, both 'Star' quality. Wars and Trek. They were AAA. Everything else was the next tier. BSG, Dr. Who, etc. I'm a fan of those next tier franchises but none were as wildly popular as Star Wars and Star Trek. It's 2014 soon to be 2015 now. There is a 'Wars' and 'Trek' MMO. Problem is that while 'Wars' was picked up by a AAA developer in BioWare/EA/LucasArts, 'Trek' was picked up in a less than AAA dev in Cryptic, then Atari now PWE. One game is making money and is fun, the other sucks the life out of me and is a grindfest. Star Trek deserves better and its unfortunate that this is the only 'Trek' MMO available right now. After all, the "Wars' game is set in the Old Republic setting. Imagine the damage it would do if it was set in the era of A New Hope...
Please give us a 'Trek' MMO on par with what we are getting with Star Wars. We deserve it after all these years.
Ironic that SWTOR is pushing 12 x XP and STO just nerfed everyone's XP, no?
SWTOR is trying to get as many characters to level 55 as they can so player characters can run the new level 55 to 60 content. Getting a character to level 55 sucks in SWTOR compared to STO without the 12x XP boost. STO is ridiculously easy to get to level 50 so such boosts are not needed to play the new content.
SWTOR is trying to get as many characters to level 55 as they can so player characters can run the new level 55 to 60 content. Getting a character to level 55 sucks in SWTOR compared to STO without the 12x XP boost. STO is ridiculously easy to get to level 50 so such boosts are not needed to play the new content.
Kind of but not really. Has anyone tried to get to lvl 50 in STO since the DOff XP nerf? 55 in SWTOR is still very doable in a week if you know what missions to run.
SWTOR is trying to get as many characters to level 55 as they can so player characters can run the new level 55 to 60 content. Getting a character to level 55 sucks in SWTOR compared to STO without the 12x XP boost. STO is ridiculously easy to get to level 50 so such boosts are not needed to play the new content.
I just got my Bounty Hunter to 50 and completed the class story. I was so happy.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Kind of but not really. Has anyone tried to get to lvl 50 in STO since the DOff XP nerf? 55 in SWTOR is still very doable in a week if you know what missions to run.
People actually need to use Doff missions to get to level 50? There is always a ton of missions still left to do in the Episode Guide when players hit level 50 unlike at launch where Exploration missions and Patrols were necessary to supplement doing story missions.
If you mean by grinding a ton of Flashpoint missions in SWTOR to get to level 55, then that is not very doable in a week for lots of players.
People actually need to use Doff missions to get to level 50? There is always a ton of missions still left to do in the Episode Guide when players hit level 50 unlike at launch where Exploration missions and Patrols were necessary to supplement doing story missions.
If you mean by grinding a ton of Flashpoint missions in SWTOR to get to level 55, then that is not very doable in a week for lots of players.
With FP's, KDY, and Class Missions (sans 12 x XP) level 55 is still doable in under 40 hours. There are plenty of YouTube videos to prove it.
With FP's, KDY, and Class Missions (sans 12 x XP) level 55 is still doable in under 40 hours. There are plenty of YouTube videos to prove it.
I am not refuting your claim. Just that it is not possible for lots of players to do in under 40 hours. The only problem that I have with the 12x XP bonus is that it will last for only 1 more month.
I am not refuting your claim. Just that it is not possible for lots of players to do in under 40 hours. The only problem that I have with the 12x XP bonus is that it will last for only 1 more month.
It can't be refuted because it's true. Given if you work 40+ hours a week like myself it will probably take you around a month, which is still very good for a MMO. The learning curve is just a bit different but for those power levelers out there it can be done in a couple of days.
Just the other day i lvled a character from 1-50 in SWTOR i chose to stop at 50 for the moment on that character. It took me 2 days, and guess what I used? level 9 gear from 9 - 50. Not even joking.
Learning your skills and how to use them is key, I died only a handful of times and usually when my companion wasnt doing what it aught to be.
Now I did play a ton in 2 days but it wasnt like I didnt do other things or eat or sleep. 6 or so hours per session is all it took. You can go lvl 1-15 in under 40mins. Ignore everything you dont need to kill, run for quest objectives and npc only. Bust them down, turn in quest and repeat.
That x12 exp is rediculous and they give you +25% exp tokens from your quest that stack with it. Some quests give you 2 levels in 1 go.
They want people to 55 for the new expansion and they gave people the chance for 2 MONTHS of that kinda exp. Gotta hand it to them they gave the players a hell of a boost.
SWTOR and STO fall into the trap of this. GOOD story, but gotta grind through so much TRIBBLE.
Plus with SWTOR, besides the main line quests, for every planet it's the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Go here, kill X amount of this, then move along with the story.
OH wait, STO just did that with 50-60. And people wonder why I have an issue with SWTOR. Least here don't have to subscribe just to post on the forums.
This is basically my only problem (aside from the F2P model, which is unworthy of the name) with SWTOR. Sure, the planetary storylines are new and interesting the first time (and, indeed, I did my best to keep up with them instead of dodging quests left and right), but after that, you're just doing it so your character doesn't end up irreversibly inferior to anything he fights until he hits the level cap. (Which actually happened to my first character as I wasn't doing any of the so-called 'bonus' missions. Luckily, my choice of class and advanced class was influenced by the success I had with Medic kits in STO.)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I quite playing STO for a while because of the added grind in Delta Rising so I thought I'd go play Star Wars: The Old Republic. That game is soooooo grindy. It has amazing class stories but it is bogged down by all sorts of other kiil/fetch quests and other MMO bull****. I hate constantly having to worry about updating to the best gear, having enough credits, running across a huge maps just for a damn cutscene (although usually a really really good one), and so on. That game is 20 percent awesomeness, 80 percent MMO bull****. After playing that, STO doesn't seem quite as grindy anymore lol. I think i'm coming back to STO for the moment. Nevertheless, maybe I'm just not an MMO person. I miss the days when I would just start up a single player game and have an amazing engaging experience without it being like another job.
SWTOR has established a system that relegates F2P members to 3rd class status as people. Benefits are severely reduced in XP as you go along. Access to raids is restricted. Because you cannot level as fast if your friends subscribe, you will quickly suffer penalties in xp and loot reduction as they out level you. In this STO is superior for having level matching, and I commend them for that foresight. However, with DR, STO has, intentionally or more likely unintentionally, found a way to attack and exclude lower income families and members - and I am not amused. I want the game I enjoyed playing back - all the way to when I had my crafting and what I could craft was relevant.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
I loved Star Wars TOR for its really engaging storylines and the different planets, characters, and the awesome one-liners some of the Dark Side characters have. I love STO because I really enjoyed the endgame Rep system, STFs, and quick/easy content that didn't require hours and hours to level.
Downsides? To really play TOR you need a subscription. To now play STO you now need a really long amount of time and dilithium at endgame.
Since I've recently started a Degree, work full time, and learning Italian in-between, it's just not feasible to have that grind in my life in games.
So, I've gone back to the beginning. Mass Effect, Bridge Commander, Armada I/II, SW: Empire At War etc. These games still allow me to enjoy and relax when I play them, when I can play them. I just pick up the game and go.
Comments
i guess you never played EQ1 when it first came out, lets just say it took months to get one level so be thankfull things are the way they are in mmo's now. which for a vet like me is a joke:cool:
Oh don't get me wrong, I also like to solo a lot. I'm not saying that having solo gameplay as part of MMOs is impossible or bad. I was just referring to the comment that MMOs are oxymoronic because they have instances where playing with others is needed. It's like saying that McDonalds is oxymoronic because it forces you to eat when you enter.
Yeah. Wouldn't it have been cool if they had just taken that 20% and made a single player game out of it? I know, they could have called it KOTOR 3 and made it a Console release. Such as it is, Old Republic is like trying to make Mass Effect 3 into an mmo to complete the story for the sake of hoping it'll be an even bigger cash cow. Except, now it's 300 years later, nothing you did in 1 and 2 is relevant, you can't play as Sheperd and now he's evil and wants to kill you. And also the games a flop.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
STO is probably the least grindy western MMO I have ever played. This is how MMO's work, if people don't like it they will probably never be happy playing any MMO.
Players and devs who try to force "massively multiplayer" = forced grouping
Players who can't fathom that some people want to solo some or all of the time.
"Our/This MMO is solo friendly, you can solo to the level cap"
This pretty much always means you can kill "yard trash" and do solo quests to the level cap. You will not get any endgame uber gear unless you do group dungeons and then raids.
Plus with SWTOR, besides the main line quests, for every planet it's the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Go here, kill X amount of this, then move along with the story.
OH wait, STO just did that with 50-60. And people wonder why I have an issue with SWTOR. Least here don't have to subscribe just to post on the forums.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
That "flop" also outearned this game by 10x last year. I'll take actual gameplay vs timebars anyday. I'll bet PWE would take that kind of money ANY day for STO.
Actually no.
People aren't the main source of MY problems, they are the source of ALL problems.
ALL problems can be traced back to someone somewhere either being malignant or asleep at the switch.
For example, someone just had to contradict me or it wouldn't be a forum. :P
I never wanted STO to be an MMO.
I'd much rather have it a single player online resource game with the option of multiplayer if I'm feeling masochistic.
Sadly it is the only current Star Trek game currently out there.
Mine Trap Supporter
Well if making well over $100 million a year is a flop sign me up...STAT! :P
Honestly, I think all MMOS give people reasons to replay stuff.
My character Tsin'xing
Atm SWTOR has x12 exp if you sub and have preordered the expansion. Leveled from 1-55 in 2 days just speed running nothing but main class quest. Even without all that you can go 1-20 in a day, 4-5days and fully leveled so its not that bad.
Try WoT and go from tier 1 to 10 THAT is a grind lol.
Ironic that SWTOR is pushing 12 x XP and STO just nerfed everyone's XP, no?
For me where the rubber hits the road is this:
Growing up there were 2 sci-fi franchises, both 'Star' quality. Wars and Trek. They were AAA. Everything else was the next tier. BSG, Dr. Who, etc. I'm a fan of those next tier franchises but none were as wildly popular as Star Wars and Star Trek. It's 2014 soon to be 2015 now. There is a 'Wars' and 'Trek' MMO. Problem is that while 'Wars' was picked up by a AAA developer in BioWare/EA/LucasArts, 'Trek' was picked up in a less than AAA dev in Cryptic, then Atari now PWE. One game is making money and is fun, the other sucks the life out of me and is a grindfest. Star Trek deserves better and its unfortunate that this is the only 'Trek' MMO available right now. After all, the "Wars' game is set in the Old Republic setting. Imagine the damage it would do if it was set in the era of A New Hope...
Please give us a 'Trek' MMO on par with what we are getting with Star Wars. We deserve it after all these years.
OP, good luck!
SWTOR is trying to get as many characters to level 55 as they can so player characters can run the new level 55 to 60 content. Getting a character to level 55 sucks in SWTOR compared to STO without the 12x XP boost. STO is ridiculously easy to get to level 50 so such boosts are not needed to play the new content.
Kind of but not really. Has anyone tried to get to lvl 50 in STO since the DOff XP nerf? 55 in SWTOR is still very doable in a week if you know what missions to run.
I just got my Bounty Hunter to 50 and completed the class story. I was so happy.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
People actually need to use Doff missions to get to level 50? There is always a ton of missions still left to do in the Episode Guide when players hit level 50 unlike at launch where Exploration missions and Patrols were necessary to supplement doing story missions.
If you mean by grinding a ton of Flashpoint missions in SWTOR to get to level 55, then that is not very doable in a week for lots of players.
With FP's, KDY, and Class Missions (sans 12 x XP) level 55 is still doable in under 40 hours. There are plenty of YouTube videos to prove it.
I am not refuting your claim. Just that it is not possible for lots of players to do in under 40 hours. The only problem that I have with the 12x XP bonus is that it will last for only 1 more month.
It can't be refuted because it's true. Given if you work 40+ hours a week like myself it will probably take you around a month, which is still very good for a MMO. The learning curve is just a bit different but for those power levelers out there it can be done in a couple of days.
Learning your skills and how to use them is key, I died only a handful of times and usually when my companion wasnt doing what it aught to be.
Now I did play a ton in 2 days but it wasnt like I didnt do other things or eat or sleep. 6 or so hours per session is all it took. You can go lvl 1-15 in under 40mins. Ignore everything you dont need to kill, run for quest objectives and npc only. Bust them down, turn in quest and repeat.
That x12 exp is rediculous and they give you +25% exp tokens from your quest that stack with it. Some quests give you 2 levels in 1 go.
They want people to 55 for the new expansion and they gave people the chance for 2 MONTHS of that kinda exp. Gotta hand it to them they gave the players a hell of a boost.
This is basically my only problem (aside from the F2P model, which is unworthy of the name) with SWTOR. Sure, the planetary storylines are new and interesting the first time (and, indeed, I did my best to keep up with them instead of dodging quests left and right), but after that, you're just doing it so your character doesn't end up irreversibly inferior to anything he fights until he hits the level cap. (Which actually happened to my first character as I wasn't doing any of the so-called 'bonus' missions. Luckily, my choice of class and advanced class was influenced by the success I had with Medic kits in STO.)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
SWTOR has established a system that relegates F2P members to 3rd class status as people. Benefits are severely reduced in XP as you go along. Access to raids is restricted. Because you cannot level as fast if your friends subscribe, you will quickly suffer penalties in xp and loot reduction as they out level you. In this STO is superior for having level matching, and I commend them for that foresight. However, with DR, STO has, intentionally or more likely unintentionally, found a way to attack and exclude lower income families and members - and I am not amused. I want the game I enjoyed playing back - all the way to when I had my crafting and what I could craft was relevant.
I loved Star Wars TOR for its really engaging storylines and the different planets, characters, and the awesome one-liners some of the Dark Side characters have. I love STO because I really enjoyed the endgame Rep system, STFs, and quick/easy content that didn't require hours and hours to level.
Downsides? To really play TOR you need a subscription. To now play STO you now need a really long amount of time and dilithium at endgame.
Since I've recently started a Degree, work full time, and learning Italian in-between, it's just not feasible to have that grind in my life in games.
So, I've gone back to the beginning. Mass Effect, Bridge Commander, Armada I/II, SW: Empire At War etc. These games still allow me to enjoy and relax when I play them, when I can play them. I just pick up the game and go.