While I appreciate the gesture of faction materials (especially after y'all inexplicably refused to give us such options on the dyson ships), I hope they're going to get some more detailing. Without windows and phaser strips, they still don't look like Fed ships.
I appreciate the effort you guys put forward for this blog.
That said, the fed ships still look really bad to me. I just can't figure out how you guys were able to take that design philosophy and make such awesome looking KDF/RR ships that still very much look like they belong in their factions, but then stumble so hard on the fed ships. I just don't get it.
Wonderful concept art. Okay so other materials can be used, awesome and thank you. Can we please get some hints as to what these other ship components look like? The only part of these new ships was had me questioning them was the sci-ships saucer. From an engineering standpoint that cut out just seemed wrong. Please please tell me we will be able to fill it in.
Other than that they are growing more and more on me. Specially from the Section 31 and Star Fleet Intelligence stand point.
Space is vast, it's wonderful and maddening. Yet in that madness is some of the greatest beauty I have ever seen.
Wonderful concept art. Okay so other materials can be used, awesome and thank you. Can we please get some hints as to what these other ship components look like? The only part of these new ships was had me questioning them was the sci-ships saucer. From an engineering standpoint that cut out just seemed wrong. Please please tell me we will be able to fill it in.
Other than that they are growing more and more on me. Specially from the Section 31 and Star Fleet Intelligence stand point.
It is filled in in that last picture. Has Eclipse style nacelles too.
As always, the concept art tends to be better than the final product. At least in my opinion.
Please tell me you have plans for some of those concept designs. The two resembling a sleeker Vesta class look gorgeous.
Its a shame they didnt stick with these as they are all better looking and more federation like imo than the TRIBBLE they did serve up.
I can almost like the escort but I wasnt a fan of the look of the original Defiant either.
The Romulan and KDF designs I really like a ton tho... pity that the design team fumbled the fed side
easy to see how much work has been put into these ship designs, this blog has removed
all uncertainty i had about the thematic direction they have taken with this sub-class, and
while they may not suit all tastes, im sure most players will be very happy with this offering
of advanced technology. cant wait to put them through a thorough shakedown flight and
see just what we can get out of them.. roll on the 14th or there-abouts!!
This is another thing I meant to say in my post above. Two out of the 3 fed ships look like seriously low poly models of craft found in games from the from the late 80's, early 90's.
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
I echo crypticarmsman's sentiment that you failed in your 'fusion' design goal for the Starfleet ships. They don't really look like something Starfleet would design based on the prior ships' lineage. To me, they aren't recognisable as Star Trek ships, let alone Starfleet ones.
The KDF and Romulan ships are nice though and these two do look like ships of their respective factions.
This does give me some hope regarding the Fed ships :
"In the end, players will have the option to fully embrace our new Intelligence aesthetic, complete with its aggressive and stealthy style, or tweak components and materials for a more traditional look."
Please tell me you have plans for some of those concept designs. The two resembling a sleeker Vesta class look gorgeous.
Seconded. I also like the wedge shaped one on the right. The ones on the left look like older designs, not newer to me with the top left one having closer Cochran's warp ship layout and the botttom left looking like a design from Enterprise.
I didn't realize they still used "Radar" in the 25th century! The angled and pointed meeting lines in today's stealth fighters/bombers is a method of making the planes invisible to Radar. A concept which is no longer viable in the 25th century due to advanced sensor arrays etc.
Well, the design principles would be the same for scattering anything active, if made of the right materials , the sharp angles would deflect the return energy to where it wouldn't go back to the sensor arrays on the emitting ship. If well insulated for any escaping energy, it could give a small edge fights at the distances involved (hard to pin point specific systems), though the only sure-fire way to remain undetected is a cloak (which is why they exist in the stories, as you can't use submarine tactics with the blinding energy outputs of anything not cooled down near 0 K.)
Of course, as pointed out by the blog, it's not anymore part of the real design of the ship as the aerodynamic shape, it's just there to indicate to the players 'this looks like a stealth fighter'.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
I can understand that they are using the same textures as the rest of the federation vessels but at least the saucer on a lower poly model did not have wobbley lines and unaligned textures.
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
everything im looking at in these concepts is ART, brilliant.
how did you get from there to what you have shown us ?
the concept models, though they are small, are all completely elegant in proportion. (i especially like like the middle small phantom concept most)
the material shown in the last picture is totally FINE and nice and slim and looks totally neat. intel enough for me.
i really dont get what happened between concept and ... yeah what we just seen and filled us with horrors and nightmares.
the last picture, okay the models still look quite "experimaental" but its clearly FEDERATION ships.
the meterial intel you designed looks well in the concept too. but somehow in "real" it looks really aweful. to much detail lost or sth. to much "unclear" lines maybe. i cannot say.
this concept and the material from the last picture will sell it.
please next time dont scare us this much if you clearly KNOW what looks better.
i can just hope, that the last seen material will come with these ships, and maybe some alternate models for phantom and the cruiser and sci will come along when the fleetversions hit holodeck.
some concepts looked much more convincing than that "compromise" reshape. escpecially the concept of the cruiser looked better. (it was less flat, still angular and more flat than standard, but not THIS flat)
also the concept of the sciship was better. it hat angulars everywhere. the innerside and the outerside of the ring saucer were both "angled" now the innerside is rounded and the otside is angled - why did you do this?
Really happy knowing they can use base materials if desired and that they are going to have some customization option's
A request if possible tho is it would be really nice if the Eclipse had a saucer option that brought the nose to more of a point possibly with a more integrated deflector I'm not really sure why but something about the way the current front looks just bugs me.
Would also really like to see a version of the Scryer with a more teardrop shaped saucer and a pylon connecting/reinforcing the tip/point and connecting through the gap. This would kind of give it a more stretched out appearance which would be kind of a nice alternative aesthetically.
I didn't realize they still used "Radar" in the 25th century! The angled and pointed meeting lines in today's stealth fighters/bombers is a method of making the planes invisible to Radar. A concept which is no longer viable in the 25th century due to advanced sensor arrays etc.
So, to me, and in my personal opinion, this design concept is 4 centuries back in the wrong direction.
I like the Klingon and Romulan designs but still really dislike the Fed designs. Sorry. Just my opinion.
Regardless of the sensor deployed, it will rely on bouncing some sort of radiation off an object to observe it if it's an active sensor.
Perusing the latest Star Trek lore leads me to believe that this will be a Graviton Radar that angled deflecting plains of specialized materials will deflect in the same way today's stealth materials deflect Radar.
A Former Aircraft Mechanic.
Already bought the Pack, looking forward to what the Veteran Stealth Skin looks like.
Well written blog that talks the talk for a great corporate level design pitch. Brad's words by themselves convinced me there was great focus and talent behind this... and then there was the actual pictures of the Fed ships, and it all fell to pieces.
I don't get it. JamJamz & Co did such a great job with ships like the Ambassador and the new Voyager (Intrepid class) makeover, but these "intelligence" ships are not intelligent at all. This is gamey and late 90s level quality for a non-Star Trek game. But then you look at the Rom KDF ships, and it's a complete 180. All the investment went into those. I'm happy for those factions, KDF needs more bada*s ships, but these Fed ones don't fit proper Starfleet (maybe Section 31 in very limited quantities, but thats it). They would never see screentime in a tv series.
In the future, try to think more like Andrew Probert or Rick Sternbach, not Lockheed Martin.
Before Star Trek 2, every (canon) starship was laid out like the enterprise
Before "The Battle" no starship had 4 nacelles
Before season 3 of DS9, the federation had no tough little warships
Before the pilot of VOY, no ship had external moving parts
Point: Just because the aesthetic is in a different direction, they can still be federation ships. If someone on the internet had come up with the Defiant without it being in the show, everyone would have said the exact same things about it not looking like a starfleet ship.
As far as the angular "stealth" design goes, the idea is that it's meant to remind someone if a stealth craft, not that space ships need those shapes to be stealthy (but is scifi, so they can technobabble a justification if they want).
In the end, this is the direction they went with the intelligence ships, but if you don't like them, no worries, there will still be more traditional designs coming too.
I didn't realize they still used "Radar" in the 25th century! The angled and pointed meeting lines in today's stealth fighters/bombers is a method of making the planes invisible to Radar. A concept which is no longer viable in the 25th century due to advanced sensor arrays etc.
So, to me, and in my personal opinion, this design concept is 4 centuries back in the wrong direction.
I like the Klingon and Romulan designs but still really dislike the Fed designs. Sorry. Just my opinion.
Also, why are Klingons and Romulans using an ancient "human" (Earth) stealth design aesthetic?
Surely stealth technology on these worlds would have developed and evolve far differently as their ship design did. Cloaking device anyone?:rolleyes:
Ironically the non Fed ships look better with the 21st century Earth stealth designs.:(:confused::rolleyes:
I still think the design concept for "stealth" ships doesn't make any sense thematically, especially for the Federation.
Cloaking has existed since TOS and has shown that ships can become completely undetectable with it, regardless of size or shape. "Special hull materials" and "angular lines" for a cloak ship just doesn't work. I can appreciate wanting to do something different, but IMO this was the wrong direction to go in and you all can do much, much better.
while cloak is great for movement and alpha strike, surely you want to be harder to
target during combat as well, if the materials and designs they are using improve on
that, would that not be an added bonus?
i must say, with the light grey material the phantom looks quite good now in my eyes.
if the cruiser gets a less long saucer and another deflector-nose option for customization, it will also work for me.
the sciship is complicated. most buggy thing is the ring thing that has a round inner shape and an angular outer shape.
but all three ships look MUCH more acceptable and startrek or federation with the light-grey material. much much more. they look new and experimental, but not "far out" like with the dark texture. which by itself is okay too, but both texture and shape wont work for me.
Not a fan of the ships BUT I am glad they will have the expected array of faction-appropriate materials, veteran materials included. My biggest disappointment about the Dyson ships was that we couldn't use our other faction materials. It's the sole reason I passed on them.
Comments
That said, the fed ships still look really bad to me. I just can't figure out how you guys were able to take that design philosophy and make such awesome looking KDF/RR ships that still very much look like they belong in their factions, but then stumble so hard on the fed ships. I just don't get it.
Mine Trap Supporter
Other than that they are growing more and more on me. Specially from the Section 31 and Star Fleet Intelligence stand point.
It is filled in in that last picture. Has Eclipse style nacelles too.
Its a shame they didnt stick with these as they are all better looking and more federation like imo than the TRIBBLE they did serve up.
I can almost like the escort but I wasnt a fan of the look of the original Defiant either.
The Romulan and KDF designs I really like a ton tho... pity that the design team fumbled the fed side
all uncertainty i had about the thematic direction they have taken with this sub-class, and
while they may not suit all tastes, im sure most players will be very happy with this offering
of advanced technology. cant wait to put them through a thorough shakedown flight and
see just what we can get out of them.. roll on the 14th or there-abouts!!
I think Star Fleet Command had higher detail models:
http://gameswalls.com/star-trek-starfleet-command-2/star-trek-starfleet-command/1024x768
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
The KDF and Romulan ships are nice though and these two do look like ships of their respective factions.
K
"In the end, players will have the option to fully embrace our new Intelligence aesthetic, complete with its aggressive and stealthy style, or tweak components and materials for a more traditional look."
http://www.stoarchive.com/
Seconded. I also like the wedge shaped one on the right. The ones on the left look like older designs, not newer to me with the top left one having closer Cochran's warp ship layout and the botttom left looking like a design from Enterprise.
Well, the design principles would be the same for scattering anything active, if made of the right materials , the sharp angles would deflect the return energy to where it wouldn't go back to the sensor arrays on the emitting ship. If well insulated for any escaping energy, it could give a small edge fights at the distances involved (hard to pin point specific systems), though the only sure-fire way to remain undetected is a cloak (which is why they exist in the stories, as you can't use submarine tactics with the blinding energy outputs of anything not cooled down near 0 K.)
Of course, as pointed out by the blog, it's not anymore part of the real design of the ship as the aerodynamic shape, it's just there to indicate to the players 'this looks like a stealth fighter'.
Looks like the site that you linked to doesn't like hotlinks. So, the image can't be viewed. But yea, I agree, SFC Did have higher detailed models!
/10char
Joined January 2009
Try this link:
http://gameswalls.com/star-trek-starfleet-command-2/star-trek-starfleet-command/1024x768
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
The Scryer and Eclipse though? Nah.
Thanks Cryptic...
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
I'm not talking about the texture specifically I'm talking about the quality of the model and texture mapping look at these areas I've highlighted on the Scryer Class:
[URL="[URL]http://oi61.tinypic.com/2r3a15d.jpg[/URL]"][/url]http://oi61.tinypic.com/2r3a15d.jpg
I can understand that they are using the same textures as the rest of the federation vessels but at least the saucer on a lower poly model did not have wobbley lines and unaligned textures.
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
We're not talking about the Texture detail... We're talking about how the new intel ships look to be very low poly models in comparison.
everything im looking at in these concepts is ART, brilliant.
how did you get from there to what you have shown us ?
the concept models, though they are small, are all completely elegant in proportion. (i especially like like the middle small phantom concept most)
the material shown in the last picture is totally FINE and nice and slim and looks totally neat. intel enough for me.
i really dont get what happened between concept and ... yeah what we just seen and filled us with horrors and nightmares.
the last picture, okay the models still look quite "experimaental" but its clearly FEDERATION ships.
the meterial intel you designed looks well in the concept too. but somehow in "real" it looks really aweful. to much detail lost or sth. to much "unclear" lines maybe. i cannot say.
this concept and the material from the last picture will sell it.
please next time dont scare us this much if you clearly KNOW what looks better.
i can just hope, that the last seen material will come with these ships, and maybe some alternate models for phantom and the cruiser and sci will come along when the fleetversions hit holodeck.
some concepts looked much more convincing than that "compromise" reshape. escpecially the concept of the cruiser looked better. (it was less flat, still angular and more flat than standard, but not THIS flat)
also the concept of the sciship was better. it hat angulars everywhere. the innerside and the outerside of the ring saucer were both "angled" now the innerside is rounded and the otside is angled - why did you do this?
A request if possible tho is it would be really nice if the Eclipse had a saucer option that brought the nose to more of a point possibly with a more integrated deflector I'm not really sure why but something about the way the current front looks just bugs me.
Would also really like to see a version of the Scryer with a more teardrop shaped saucer and a pylon connecting/reinforcing the tip/point and connecting through the gap. This would kind of give it a more stretched out appearance which would be kind of a nice alternative aesthetically.
Regardless of the sensor deployed, it will rely on bouncing some sort of radiation off an object to observe it if it's an active sensor.
Perusing the latest Star Trek lore leads me to believe that this will be a Graviton Radar that angled deflecting plains of specialized materials will deflect in the same way today's stealth materials deflect Radar.
A Former Aircraft Mechanic.
Already bought the Pack, looking forward to what the Veteran Stealth Skin looks like.
I don't get it. JamJamz & Co did such a great job with ships like the Ambassador and the new Voyager (Intrepid class) makeover, but these "intelligence" ships are not intelligent at all. This is gamey and late 90s level quality for a non-Star Trek game. But then you look at the Rom KDF ships, and it's a complete 180. All the investment went into those. I'm happy for those factions, KDF needs more bada*s ships, but these Fed ones don't fit proper Starfleet (maybe Section 31 in very limited quantities, but thats it). They would never see screentime in a tv series.
In the future, try to think more like Andrew Probert or Rick Sternbach, not Lockheed Martin.
More gribblys is always better, especially if the flap retracts when the deflector is used as in scanning satellites.
Before Star Trek 2, every (canon) starship was laid out like the enterprise
Before "The Battle" no starship had 4 nacelles
Before season 3 of DS9, the federation had no tough little warships
Before the pilot of VOY, no ship had external moving parts
Point: Just because the aesthetic is in a different direction, they can still be federation ships. If someone on the internet had come up with the Defiant without it being in the show, everyone would have said the exact same things about it not looking like a starfleet ship.
As far as the angular "stealth" design goes, the idea is that it's meant to remind someone if a stealth craft, not that space ships need those shapes to be stealthy (but is scifi, so they can technobabble a justification if they want).
In the end, this is the direction they went with the intelligence ships, but if you don't like them, no worries, there will still be more traditional designs coming too.
Also, why are Klingons and Romulans using an ancient "human" (Earth) stealth design aesthetic?
Surely stealth technology on these worlds would have developed and evolve far differently as their ship design did. Cloaking device anyone?:rolleyes:
Ironically the non Fed ships look better with the 21st century Earth stealth designs.:(:confused::rolleyes:
while cloak is great for movement and alpha strike, surely you want to be harder to
target during combat as well, if the materials and designs they are using improve on
that, would that not be an added bonus?
if the cruiser gets a less long saucer and another deflector-nose option for customization, it will also work for me.
the sciship is complicated. most buggy thing is the ring thing that has a round inner shape and an angular outer shape.
but all three ships look MUCH more acceptable and startrek or federation with the light-grey material. much much more. they look new and experimental, but not "far out" like with the dark texture. which by itself is okay too, but both texture and shape wont work for me.