Oh, certainly. The Bortasqu can't generate nearly enough defense, maneuverability, or battlecloak to 'compete' with the power-crept mess that is PvP, but it's far from being alone with that criteria.
If you really want to simplify things down to raw performance alone.. then KDF battlecruiser pilots should ONLY be flying a Mogh or Qib; everything else is statically inferior - even the revered Torkaht.
The point I was making is that with the proliferation of added mobility, the Bortasqu isn't nearly as encumbered by most engagements as it used to be - I have no problem keeping a bead on an Undine or Vaadwaur craft if I want to.. while broadsiding everything else in creation with the benefit of those 5 tac consoles(the only KDF ship that can broadside harder is, perhaps, the Qib or 'maybe' a flanking Hoh'sus).
Consider every little new thing that comes out for the player - does the PvE ever change to reflect that? Nope, it's the same ol' same ol'...perhaps running that treadmill to nowhere faster.
Consider every little new thing that comes out for the player - does the PvP ever change to reflect that? Yep, it's constantly changing...always having to adapt to whatever is currently going on.
Consider what you face when you hit most PvE queues - same enemy? Yep. Enemy does the same thing? Yep.
Consider what you face when you hit most PvP queues - same enemy? Nope. Enemy does the same thing? Nope.
There's a reason that ISE was used and ISA is used for what is basically a target dummy...
In PVP, players have a say in what happens and don't just sit there to be repeatedly slapped across the face.
The enemy in PVP may be mediocre. Or they may be competitive. Or they may simply wipe the floor with you.
The enemy in PVP may do something you're not prepared for, while in PVE, the targets even in Elite are nothing more than damage sponges. If an NPC gets off an ability once, maybe twice before you kill it, that's amazing. In PVP, players will be performing all sorts of abilities to try to beat you.
In PVE, you can get away with everything because the NPCs are just that lame, just that dumb, just inactive. I've run joke builds by turning a DSSV into a beamboat and still come out just fine. I can run in PVE a DPS build that has everything towards offense with the most bare self repairs and come out great with spectacular numbers flying all around, but in PVP, would result in me getting killed on the first pass.
In PVP, you may not get away with anything at all, depending on the competition. Some may not be that good. Some, if you leave that 1 opening, that 1 mistake, you're DEAD soon afterwards.
The fact players have been running shuttles and low tier ships in endgame PVE queued instances and come out winners should speak volumes.
15 pages of Bort discussion. Not bad for a ship everyone says never sold well.
It's inferior to almost all the battle cruisers I have (the k'tinga is In my opinion worst - less tactical seats and very low hull hit points), yet I still upgraded my tac fitted it with the full cc four piece set and though it's not great it still manages a respectable 28k avg dps, mostly pugs. It desperately needs more inertia and turn rate, but I doubt cryptic will ever take a second look at it. Too bad it's a great looking ship (my opinion) with potential.
When it comes to pvp in this it is not worth it as there is no balance as Klingon should use thier native weaponery and that goes for the Fed as well.It is still hard to balance.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
The shields and cloak on the Bortasqu still suck bad, but for the past few days I've been running a DHC build on it with the Qib trait and Deft Cannoneer. Even though it still has a crappy inertia it turns really well, so much so that it feels kind of weird. I'm only running 2 mine neutroniums with +turn so I could get a better turn rate if I wanted.
However, none of that helps the Bortasqu'. It doesn't have any Hybrid Stations so it can't slot any of those new specialization abilities. Traits, yes, but not the fancy new Intel and now Command abilities. And the Bortasqu'? Though 1 version has Sensor Analysis, it won't be getting a Secondary Deflector Slot.
how much do you want to bet we'll be seeing one or more of the following (based on the precedent set with the Intrepid)?
"Command seating" variant Tier 6 Odyssey
update/upgraded Bort
update/upgrade Scimitar
If it isn't the specific ships, it'll be Tier 6 versions that basically swap a station and have the following:
a good trait for the Fed ship
a good trait for the Romulan ship
a TRIBBLE trait for the KDF ship.
Remember, Gecko's a fan of big, slow cruisers. I'm willing to bet that the next "Tier six" ship KDF gets, will be either a tier six c-store Bort for thirty-something bucks, or a bort-lookalike.
I'm not betting against low tiered ships getting their day in the sun at T6. Matter of fact, I expect it as time progresses.
When it happens, those things are in essence, completely different, new purchases. Just like how the T6 Intrepid is a new deal than the T5U Intrepids. They are going to be different. Just like how the Phantom essentially *IS* the Defiant with all the upgrades people wanted for years, it's just missing the Defiant skins.
I've also been accustomed to the fact (and actual game history) that these new versions at T6 will be full fledged, brand new, full ship prices with no discounts. Just like every ship purchase is at every tier as you went up, just like the Intrepids have shown at T5 then to T6. But I'm sure people around the boards will still act surprised.
The shields and cloak on the Bortasqu still suck bad, but for the past few days I've been running a DHC build on it with the Qib trait and Deft Cannoneer. Even though it still has a crappy inertia it turns really well, so much so that it feels kind of weird. I'm only running 2 mine neutroniums with +turn so I could get a better turn rate if I wanted.
You might try the 8472 Counter-Command Engines with their +5 to Inertia. I like them on the DHC D'Deridex I run.
bring the turn rate up and the inertia to the oddy stats. Then make the shield mod 1.1 + cloak buff to normal levels , other then that I wouldn't change much. Its only slightly been marginalized, they are very powerful ships in the right hands but their stats are alittle off.
This is honestly how i feel with raptors and the kdf/rom destroyers all of their stats need to be changed desperately. Other wise my rom might actually use his destroyer over the scimitar he has. Kdf destroyers and raptors need more hull. The rom destroyer needs more shields...
Only way I can see this ship being saved is if they did something under a majority of the KDF consensus. Basically a redesign honoring trek of the past alliances where romulans would be able to use the bortasqu' as well as KDF non-romulan republic characters but an easily written story behind it where it is refit with alliance technology from the romulans.
If they are going to be friendly cuddly non-backstabbing romulans they should atleast become useful to the KDF
Comments
If you really want to simplify things down to raw performance alone.. then KDF battlecruiser pilots should ONLY be flying a Mogh or Qib; everything else is statically inferior - even the revered Torkaht.
The point I was making is that with the proliferation of added mobility, the Bortasqu isn't nearly as encumbered by most engagements as it used to be - I have no problem keeping a bead on an Undine or Vaadwaur craft if I want to.. while broadsiding everything else in creation with the benefit of those 5 tac consoles(the only KDF ship that can broadside harder is, perhaps, the Qib or 'maybe' a flanking Hoh'sus).
Nope.
Consider every little new thing that comes out for the player - does the PvE ever change to reflect that? Nope, it's the same ol' same ol'...perhaps running that treadmill to nowhere faster.
Consider every little new thing that comes out for the player - does the PvP ever change to reflect that? Yep, it's constantly changing...always having to adapt to whatever is currently going on.
Consider what you face when you hit most PvE queues - same enemy? Yep. Enemy does the same thing? Yep.
Consider what you face when you hit most PvP queues - same enemy? Nope. Enemy does the same thing? Nope.
There's a reason that ISE was used and ISA is used for what is basically a target dummy...
In PVP, players have a say in what happens and don't just sit there to be repeatedly slapped across the face.
The enemy in PVP may be mediocre. Or they may be competitive. Or they may simply wipe the floor with you.
The enemy in PVP may do something you're not prepared for, while in PVE, the targets even in Elite are nothing more than damage sponges. If an NPC gets off an ability once, maybe twice before you kill it, that's amazing. In PVP, players will be performing all sorts of abilities to try to beat you.
In PVE, you can get away with everything because the NPCs are just that lame, just that dumb, just inactive. I've run joke builds by turning a DSSV into a beamboat and still come out just fine. I can run in PVE a DPS build that has everything towards offense with the most bare self repairs and come out great with spectacular numbers flying all around, but in PVP, would result in me getting killed on the first pass.
In PVP, you may not get away with anything at all, depending on the competition. Some may not be that good. Some, if you leave that 1 opening, that 1 mistake, you're DEAD soon afterwards.
The fact players have been running shuttles and low tier ships in endgame PVE queued instances and come out winners should speak volumes.
It's inferior to almost all the battle cruisers I have (the k'tinga is In my opinion worst - less tactical seats and very low hull hit points), yet I still upgraded my tac fitted it with the full cc four piece set and though it's not great it still manages a respectable 28k avg dps, mostly pugs. It desperately needs more inertia and turn rate, but I doubt cryptic will ever take a second look at it. Too bad it's a great looking ship (my opinion) with potential.
When it comes to pvp in this it is not worth it as there is no balance as Klingon should use thier native weaponery and that goes for the Fed as well.It is still hard to balance.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
I was looking at that thread you linked.
However, none of that helps the Bortasqu'. It doesn't have any Hybrid Stations so it can't slot any of those new specialization abilities. Traits, yes, but not the fancy new Intel and now Command abilities. And the Bortasqu'? Though 1 version has Sensor Analysis, it won't be getting a Secondary Deflector Slot.
I'm not betting against low tiered ships getting their day in the sun at T6. Matter of fact, I expect it as time progresses.
When it happens, those things are in essence, completely different, new purchases. Just like how the T6 Intrepid is a new deal than the T5U Intrepids. They are going to be different. Just like how the Phantom essentially *IS* the Defiant with all the upgrades people wanted for years, it's just missing the Defiant skins.
I've also been accustomed to the fact (and actual game history) that these new versions at T6 will be full fledged, brand new, full ship prices with no discounts. Just like every ship purchase is at every tier as you went up, just like the Intrepids have shown at T5 then to T6. But I'm sure people around the boards will still act surprised.
You might try the 8472 Counter-Command Engines with their +5 to Inertia. I like them on the DHC D'Deridex I run.
This is honestly how i feel with raptors and the kdf/rom destroyers all of their stats need to be changed desperately. Other wise my rom might actually use his destroyer over the scimitar he has. Kdf destroyers and raptors need more hull. The rom destroyer needs more shields...
If they are going to be friendly cuddly non-backstabbing romulans they should atleast become useful to the KDF