Bortas Is for me good looking ship. But... it's slow (I mean it's literally traveling with SNAIL speed), Turn Rate is abnormally low and shields are weak. No matter how high is the capacity of shields, they get drained fast. So Bortas really need to be updated (in speed, tr AND SHIELDS). Than I think this ship will be realy something. It is KDF flagship after all, so why not to work like one?
Speed and turn can be buffed easily enough. It's inertia that hinders it and it's inertia that is tougher to boost.
Eng consoles, hyper impulse engines (the 8472 ones especially) with high engine power, a2d, AP:O, EPTE, helmsman trait, Cruiser commands...
I always thought the bortasq was a straw man. Cryptic releases it so that nobody buys it.
Then cryptic can say that kdf don't buy ships.
So they didn't have to make new ships ever again.
the borts problem, turn rate + inertia.
if these where derived from displacement, the ship would be worth more than pish.
but the basis for these stats is utterly broken from conception, deliberately and knowingly so.
you arent thinking independently.
you are thinking with Choice-supportive bias over an object you invested time and effort into.
and being defenceive to convince yourself of your past decision being good and correct, despite the obvious inferiority the bort has to the scimitar, given they share a price mark.
no, you're wrong... I gave evidence as to why I like the bortasqu. I never said anyone else should like it. Get your logical fallacies right...
if anything, you don't have a sandwich, so everyone is hungery.
EDIT: I've even said, in this thread, that the bortasqu has problems.
I really wish the Bortasqu is granted buff so it can be somewhat effective in PVP. I have hella fun with it in PVE. No problems what so ever in PVE.
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
The Bortasqu is fine for pve, but it would be better if it's inertia was bumped up to 20+, and turn rate to seven. While they are at it improve the pet ai (odyssey too), and make the stat bump from the two console more significant. Re-release as tier 6 with extra boff slot.
I don't mind the gimpy cloak since I don't pvp with it, but that would be a good upgrade too.
Right now I can use it, but I have a lot better options in the kdf stable. So it comes down to liking the design and personal preference to use it.
The Bortasqu is fine for pve, but it would be better if it's inertia was bumped up to 20+, and turn rate to seven. While they are at it improve the pet ai (odyssey too), and make the stat bump from the two console more significant. Re-release as tier 6 with extra boff slot.
The special bortas consoles are worthless gimmicks, so there really isn't a good reason to use them other than "I want them". The same thing applies to the oddy set, and most unique consoles.
True the consoles are not worthwhile, but it would be nice if cryptic revamped them so I would at least think twice before removing them from my bortasqus.
The Bort would have been much better if it wasn't a tweaked copy of the oddy.
The Bort's problem, is that it's a middle-child between a BAttlecruiser (in that it can mount DHC, and has one less item than a Cruiser) and a Fed Cruiser (in that it is built to move slowly and gracelessly with very high hull and a large crew).
It pulls the defects of both types, therefore, while not delivering the graces of either. This is why it failed to sell when it was 'new'.
I think you're on to something here.
But to elaborate on this, I wonder if they thought the 5 tac consoles + cloak and DHC's would be viewed as too "OP", and thus all the negatives it suffers?
Funny though, how they didn't seem to have this bias toward later ships, if true.
I would disagree with you that it sucks. I don't think it does.
But I rarely PvP and you are clearly coming from a PvP perspective.
(on that note, you can disregard my reply in another thread, as it's all PvE relevant).
My PvP experience in a Bort is apparently much different than yours. but, anecdotal either way.
*puts 2 pennies on the table**
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
All that Cryptic has to do is to give them 2 Hangars, or 1 Hangar with B'rels (2+2)
If it big like a Carrier, moves like a Carrier, then it should have the Hangars to compensate for it's present performance. Wouldn't it be interesting thing to have on that bulky ship.
It does not need hangar bays. It needs more turn and inertia.
^^ So much this.
If it had even basic 9 or 10 dps of any battlecruiser in the game, it would be WORTH paying for. Forget the gimmick consoles. I'd never use them. If it could turn to get weapons on-target, I'd use it. It can't, so I won't. Even for a FAWboat, its turn rate is subpar.
Folks think that you don't need to turn if you're using FAW and 8-BA setups, but you DO need to turn. You need basic manuevering just to get around a target and set up to fire on it. This applies to getting the frell out of the path of a TAC cube on the march, staying away from an angry gate, evading space snot (seriously? Why is that still in the game!??), or just basic flight like in the Breach or Dyson space BZ.
Fact of the matter is it's a bastardization of the starfleet cruisers, but just simply worse. Whatever I can do in a fed Oddy, I can fail to do in a Borty. I like flying Fed cruisers with BA setups. I do not like flying the Borty. It's just poorly implemented.
The Bortas needs 5/4 (it's Klingon damnit!), 1 more console, to be immediately made T6 when DR releases, +2 turn, slightly worse than Negh'Var inertia, 1.15 shield modifier, 0.30 impulse modifier, bonus power levels all increased by 5 (from +10 to +15, from +15 to +20), Full BC Cloak, and +15 degrees on all cannon arcs (DHC would have 60 arc, SC would have 105).
The cannon arc thing would be why turn isn't buffed by 3.5 or more.
The Bortasqu has one of the meanest broadsides around and can take a ton of punishment. As someone who regularly flies one, I really don't see the need for it to be 'saved'. It handles like you would expect a ship of that class to; I don't see that as a bad thing.
Any of the well-reputed TAC Cruisers, TAC-oriented Battlecruisers have just as strong a broadside as the Bortasqu' if you go for beamboats. They don't move around as sluggishly, either.
Anyways, supposedly turn will get helped out in DR. We'll see.
Whilst most KDF players have (understandably) taken issue with the Aquarius becoming, in essence, a Fed BoP, the Vesta gets a buff. Because what was already the premium non-lockbox Sci ship for the Feds was clearly not good enough.
Now, why can't they take a similar balance pass at the Bortas'qu line...?
* sits back drinking a mug of Bubble Juice.........extra fizzy *
I brought one last night after I found out my Vor'cha is a T4........thinking she was a T5 for the last 2 years.........anyways......she handles like a lead bucket filled with concrete...........inside another lead bucket filled with molasses...........glued to a dead snail............on a broken treadmill............that's still in the original box.............in some fat guy's basement because he can't find the receipt to return it.
I left a big dent in my stipend savings...........big........so I'll give her another shot........for 2.5k Zen.........yeah, another shot............I'm a gonna slap a saddle on and ride her into battle like a angry Tribble with a belly ache............even if it kills everyone in the STF of my choosing.
Uhm.....there is a T4 Vor'cha and also a T5 Vor'cha. If yours is the one you got for free through progression upon reaching lvl 40, then it's a T5 ship that you have there.
Now, why can't they take a similar balance pass at the Bortas'qu line...?
The same reason they can't take a similar balance pass at the Galaxy line. But in all seriousness, personally I don't feel the Bortas needs any balance passes. The only thing I'd change is bumping the shield mod to 1.1, since it seems to be the "go to" range for cruisers these days.
It does. It very much does. It needs a turn rate buff. If NOTHING else, it would be a decent battlecruiser with just the uni boff setup and the 4/4 weapons and all that jazz, IF it could turn worth a tinker's dam. It's just too much of a hassle to manuever, let alone be effective at ANYthing.
Above all else, above tinkering with inertia, above messing with the consoles and the pets, the gimmicks, if they just gave it a turn rate of 9 or 10 it would be USEFUL again.
Above all else, above tinkering with inertia, above messing with the consoles and the pets, the gimmicks, if they just gave it a turn rate of 9 or 10 it would be USEFUL again.
Until then, it shall remain useless.
You don't understand, this is part of the ship's personality. The majestic Bortasqu' has swagger, it moves as it own pace and it doesn't hurry on anyone's account.
If you want a "let me play it like an escort" battlecruiser there are plenty to choose from. Well, not plenty, but the KDF has a few of those already.
And while the ship doesn't really need it, it would be nice if the shields were buffed to the level of equivalent 10 (soon to be 11) console cruisers.
It just has way too many consoles for a set that can't be justified in use because of the amount of consoles it takes up there is virtually little to no reward to it. Look at they ody and scimitar's usefulness then look at this bortasqu' and you have your answer.
It does. It very much does. It needs a turn rate buff. If NOTHING else, it would be a decent battlecruiser with just the uni boff setup and the 4/4 weapons and all that jazz, IF it could turn worth a tinker's dam. It's just too much of a hassle to manuever, let alone be effective at ANYthing.
Above all else, above tinkering with inertia, above messing with the consoles and the pets, the gimmicks, if they just gave it a turn rate of 9 or 10 it would be USEFUL again.
Until then, it shall remain useless.
Ships with 5.5 base turn rate and 20 inertia are still useful to some - different opinions and all that.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The same reason they can't take a similar balance pass at the Galaxy line. But in all seriousness, personally I don't feel the Bortas needs any balance passes. The only thing I'd change is bumping the shield mod to 1.1, since it seems to be the "go to" range for cruisers these days.
I agree the Devs said that they weren't making Fleet versions of teh 3 pack ships since they already were fleet quality/Stats so it should have the extra 10% shields being a 1.1 instead of the 1.0 shield modifier. That is the only thing that should be changed on it Other than maybe bumping it to a 6 base turn rating that the 2 piece set bonus gives the ship. I wouldn't expext a ship of it's size to turn any faster than that.
It does. It very much does. It needs a turn rate buff. If NOTHING else, it would be a decent battlecruiser with just the uni boff setup and the 4/4 weapons and all that jazz, IF it could turn worth a tinker's dam. It's just too much of a hassle to manuever, let alone be effective at ANYthing.
Above all else, above tinkering with inertia, above messing with the consoles and the pets, the gimmicks, if they just gave it a turn rate of 9 or 10 it would be USEFUL again.
Until then, it shall remain useless.
Gear? Traits? Boff powers? I guess you don't use them :P
Gear? Traits? Boff powers? I guess you don't use them :P
Well while it is true that anything released can help the Bort. Gear, traits, BOFFs, rep stuff, etc, sure, it can all help. That isn't really the issue about any of that stuff.
The issue more lies in how everything scales. Since so much is percentage based in the game, a ship with a higher base stat will gain more of a boost from whatever you equip.
Like even a humble RCS Accelerator console. It will help the Bort's turn as it should, but it will help a Mogh's turn even more. So even if you equip the same thing on both ships (or as close as possible as such) the Mogh will be even more ahead overall because it will be better boosted by the very gear and such you are equipping in the first place.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
(...) Like even a humble RCS Accelerator console. It will help the Bort's turn as it should, but it will help a Mogh's turn even more. So even if you equip the same thing on both ships (or as close as possible as such) the Mogh will be even more ahead overall because it will be better boosted by the very gear and such you are equipping in the first place.
(Apologies for clipping much of your response, Mimey.)
THIS is the main reason I moved away from the Bortasqu' to the Mogh (then Fleet Mogh) and never looked back. Yeah, it's a "me, too!" post -- but Mimey sums it up perfectly.
I don't miss flying the KDF "brick" (with apologies to shpoks and others who still love it). I don't regret having bought the Bortasqu' 3-pack when it was introduced. I do regret not being able to enjoy the ship as I thought I would.
Anyways, I'm keen to captain the new T6 KDF ships later this month with the DR release...
Gear? Traits? Boff powers? I guess you don't use them :P
A lot of opportunity cost to use those to compensate for the thing's turn. On a faster ship, those engineering consoles could be nice universal stat-boosting consoles instead, or armor for a hair more tank. The cost of the captain turnrate traits on the Exchange could buy a fair bit of gear (particularly if you pick up Helmsman now) or be fitted with traits for more damage or tankiness if you spend the same money. BOff stations could be fitted for more damage or tank instead of having to boost speed, plus the cost of DOffs to enhance those turnrate boosts (Aux2Damp extend, Damage Control Engineers x3 to effectively double the amount of EPt powers). If the Inertia rating of 18 listed on the Wiki is correct, you can't compensate much more than 5 of that (using the Undine Rep engines).
Only thing I don't like about the Bortasqu is the consoles/set.
I like the feeling of moving around in the Bortasqu. It remains one of the only ships that actually feels and looks like it's massive.
And I run the Tac Bortasqu with an engineer captain. Do 15k in it, use the Uni for Sci to toss out Grav Wells,, and even use the useless BOP pet.
So other then wishing the BOP pet console that wastes a slot that could be used for something better. Or Wishing it was at least on par with a Elite hanger bay. I don't see any problem with the Bortasqu.
It's a massive 5 tac console Cruiser...How many of those are in the game?..........
A lot of opportunity cost to use those to compensate for the thing's turn. On a faster ship, those engineering consoles could be nice universal stat-boosting consoles instead, or armor for a hair more tank. The cost of the captain turnrate traits on the Exchange could buy a fair bit of gear (particularly if you pick up Helmsman now) or be fitted with traits for more damage or tankiness if you spend the same money. BOff stations could be fitted for more damage or tank instead of having to boost speed, plus the cost of DOffs to enhance those turnrate boosts (Aux2Damp extend, Damage Control Engineers x3 to effectively double the amount of EPt powers). If the Inertia rating of 18 listed on the Wiki is correct, you can't compensate much more than 5 of that (using the Undine Rep engines).
Oh absolutely. I was just replying to the person who was basically saying "you can't do anything about it... blah blah... it sux ...blah blah". I feel that it can be compensated for at least partly. The sci bort does have the 8 weapons, cloak*, 4 tac consoles, ltcmdr tac and sensor analysis. I can't think of any other boats that can boast that.
I wouldn't use the bort set though. I'd dump those in a heartbeat to use the really useful uni stat boosting consoles.
Imo, the only problems with the bort are the slightly too low shield mod and the inertia which could do with a buff.
The bort does have an amazeing breached warp core slide if you can get to top speed, kill the engines, and park it before you go boom...explodeing in style has to count for somthing right?
The bort was a joke when it was launched...it was supposed to be this fearsome op thing with doom consoles like subspace snare...it ended up nerfed to the point that it became a joke in pvp...pve...meh, with the right build, Aux2Bat BFAW maybe...grav well and a disruptor barrage might make for a pretty explosion, but the ship moves with the speed of snail and flies like a brick...
That being said...it IS cool to fly, for the looks anyway
i have all the ship bundles minus the dyson ship pack...if i wanna fly a dyson, i'll run the story mission for it, not getting ships for all factions when i didn't like the demo one to begin with...
i'd just Park'n'Scuttle the dyson ships...but hey, everyone has their opinions lol
Comments
Speed and turn can be buffed easily enough. It's inertia that hinders it and it's inertia that is tougher to boost.
Eng consoles, hyper impulse engines (the 8472 ones especially) with high engine power, a2d, AP:O, EPTE, helmsman trait, Cruiser commands...
Then cryptic can say that kdf don't buy ships.
So they didn't have to make new ships ever again.
no, you're wrong... I gave evidence as to why I like the bortasqu. I never said anyone else should like it. Get your logical fallacies right...
if anything, you don't have a sandwich, so everyone is hungery.
EDIT: I've even said, in this thread, that the bortasqu has problems.
I don't mind the gimpy cloak since I don't pvp with it, but that would be a good upgrade too.
Right now I can use it, but I have a lot better options in the kdf stable. So it comes down to liking the design and personal preference to use it.
The special bortas consoles are worthless gimmicks, so there really isn't a good reason to use them other than "I want them". The same thing applies to the oddy set, and most unique consoles.
The Bort would have been much better if it wasn't a tweaked copy of the oddy.
I think you're on to something here.
But to elaborate on this, I wonder if they thought the 5 tac consoles + cloak and DHC's would be viewed as too "OP", and thus all the negatives it suffers?
Funny though, how they didn't seem to have this bias toward later ships, if true.
I would disagree with you that it sucks. I don't think it does.
But I rarely PvP and you are clearly coming from a PvP perspective.
(on that note, you can disregard my reply in another thread, as it's all PvE relevant).
My PvP experience in a Bort is apparently much different than yours. but, anecdotal either way.
*puts 2 pennies on the table**
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Yes, it can.
All that Cryptic has to do is to give them 2 Hangars, or 1 Hangar with B'rels (2+2)
If it big like a Carrier, moves like a Carrier, then it should have the Hangars to compensate for it's present performance. Wouldn't it be interesting thing to have on that bulky ship.
^^ So much this.
If it had even basic 9 or 10 dps of any battlecruiser in the game, it would be WORTH paying for. Forget the gimmick consoles. I'd never use them. If it could turn to get weapons on-target, I'd use it. It can't, so I won't. Even for a FAWboat, its turn rate is subpar.
Folks think that you don't need to turn if you're using FAW and 8-BA setups, but you DO need to turn. You need basic manuevering just to get around a target and set up to fire on it. This applies to getting the frell out of the path of a TAC cube on the march, staying away from an angry gate, evading space snot (seriously? Why is that still in the game!??), or just basic flight like in the Breach or Dyson space BZ.
Fact of the matter is it's a bastardization of the starfleet cruisers, but just simply worse. Whatever I can do in a fed Oddy, I can fail to do in a Borty. I like flying Fed cruisers with BA setups. I do not like flying the Borty. It's just poorly implemented.
The cannon arc thing would be why turn isn't buffed by 3.5 or more.
The Bortasqu has one of the meanest broadsides around and can take a ton of punishment. As someone who regularly flies one, I really don't see the need for it to be 'saved'. It handles like you would expect a ship of that class to; I don't see that as a bad thing.
Anyways, supposedly turn will get helped out in DR. We'll see.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1238751
Whilst most KDF players have (understandably) taken issue with the Aquarius becoming, in essence, a Fed BoP, the Vesta gets a buff. Because what was already the premium non-lockbox Sci ship for the Feds was clearly not good enough.
Now, why can't they take a similar balance pass at the Bortas'qu line...?
Uhm.....there is a T4 Vor'cha and also a T5 Vor'cha. If yours is the one you got for free through progression upon reaching lvl 40, then it's a T5 ship that you have there.
The same reason they can't take a similar balance pass at the Galaxy line. But in all seriousness, personally I don't feel the Bortas needs any balance passes. The only thing I'd change is bumping the shield mod to 1.1, since it seems to be the "go to" range for cruisers these days.
Above all else, above tinkering with inertia, above messing with the consoles and the pets, the gimmicks, if they just gave it a turn rate of 9 or 10 it would be USEFUL again.
Until then, it shall remain useless.
You don't understand, this is part of the ship's personality. The majestic Bortasqu' has swagger, it moves as it own pace and it doesn't hurry on anyone's account.
If you want a "let me play it like an escort" battlecruiser there are plenty to choose from. Well, not plenty, but the KDF has a few of those already.
And while the ship doesn't really need it, it would be nice if the shields were buffed to the level of equivalent 10 (soon to be 11) console cruisers.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I agree the Devs said that they weren't making Fleet versions of teh 3 pack ships since they already were fleet quality/Stats so it should have the extra 10% shields being a 1.1 instead of the 1.0 shield modifier. That is the only thing that should be changed on it Other than maybe bumping it to a 6 base turn rating that the 2 piece set bonus gives the ship. I wouldn't expext a ship of it's size to turn any faster than that.
Gear? Traits? Boff powers? I guess you don't use them :P
Well while it is true that anything released can help the Bort. Gear, traits, BOFFs, rep stuff, etc, sure, it can all help. That isn't really the issue about any of that stuff.
The issue more lies in how everything scales. Since so much is percentage based in the game, a ship with a higher base stat will gain more of a boost from whatever you equip.
Like even a humble RCS Accelerator console. It will help the Bort's turn as it should, but it will help a Mogh's turn even more. So even if you equip the same thing on both ships (or as close as possible as such) the Mogh will be even more ahead overall because it will be better boosted by the very gear and such you are equipping in the first place.
THIS is the main reason I moved away from the Bortasqu' to the Mogh (then Fleet Mogh) and never looked back. Yeah, it's a "me, too!" post -- but Mimey sums it up perfectly.
I don't miss flying the KDF "brick" (with apologies to shpoks and others who still love it). I don't regret having bought the Bortasqu' 3-pack when it was introduced. I do regret not being able to enjoy the ship as I thought I would.
Anyways, I'm keen to captain the new T6 KDF ships later this month with the DR release...
A lot of opportunity cost to use those to compensate for the thing's turn. On a faster ship, those engineering consoles could be nice universal stat-boosting consoles instead, or armor for a hair more tank. The cost of the captain turnrate traits on the Exchange could buy a fair bit of gear (particularly if you pick up Helmsman now) or be fitted with traits for more damage or tankiness if you spend the same money. BOff stations could be fitted for more damage or tank instead of having to boost speed, plus the cost of DOffs to enhance those turnrate boosts (Aux2Damp extend, Damage Control Engineers x3 to effectively double the amount of EPt powers). If the Inertia rating of 18 listed on the Wiki is correct, you can't compensate much more than 5 of that (using the Undine Rep engines).
I like the feeling of moving around in the Bortasqu. It remains one of the only ships that actually feels and looks like it's massive.
And I run the Tac Bortasqu with an engineer captain. Do 15k in it, use the Uni for Sci to toss out Grav Wells,, and even use the useless BOP pet.
So other then wishing the BOP pet console that wastes a slot that could be used for something better. Or Wishing it was at least on par with a Elite hanger bay. I don't see any problem with the Bortasqu.
It's a massive 5 tac console Cruiser...How many of those are in the game?..........
Oh absolutely. I was just replying to the person who was basically saying "you can't do anything about it... blah blah... it sux ...blah blah". I feel that it can be compensated for at least partly. The sci bort does have the 8 weapons, cloak*, 4 tac consoles, ltcmdr tac and sensor analysis. I can't think of any other boats that can boast that.
I wouldn't use the bort set though. I'd dump those in a heartbeat to use the really useful uni stat boosting consoles.
Imo, the only problems with the bort are the slightly too low shield mod and the inertia which could do with a buff.
*okay, the cloak isn't that great.
A 4/4 carrier battlecruiser, that would be a good start.
But the arbitrary rules that Cryptic follows (and then usually ignores at some later point) mean that it'd loose Cruiser Commands.
The bort was a joke when it was launched...it was supposed to be this fearsome op thing with doom consoles like subspace snare...it ended up nerfed to the point that it became a joke in pvp...pve...meh, with the right build, Aux2Bat BFAW maybe...grav well and a disruptor barrage might make for a pretty explosion, but the ship moves with the speed of snail and flies like a brick...
That being said...it IS cool to fly, for the looks anyway
i have all the ship bundles minus the dyson ship pack...if i wanna fly a dyson, i'll run the story mission for it, not getting ships for all factions when i didn't like the demo one to begin with...
i'd just Park'n'Scuttle the dyson ships...but hey, everyone has their opinions lol
Mwahahahahahahaha