If you don't want to hear about it, just don't click any thread with Bortasqu' in the title. You know with a fair bit of certainty that it's going to be a thread advocating for changes to the ship. The chance of Cryptic actually buffing it in a meaningful way is small enough that you'll likely be one of the very few running the ship and feeling like a unique snowflake long into the future.
The "unique snowflake" remark was completely unnecessary and only shows how little you udnerstood what I'm trying to say. I don't care if everyone in STO plays the ship, do you really think I get some weird satisfaction of having a ship suposedly no one uses? (although there are a lot of them everytime I log in)
Furthermore, I hope you're aware that a forum is a place for debating different opinions so someone opening a thread and expecting only people who like and support their view to participate is nearly impossible. What I'm saying is that this is No. 1.547.055 "Bortasqu' sucks" thread and it's starting to look like all those Connie and U.S.S. Vengeance threads in the past. If the idea of the ship sucking has such a big following at least localize it into one official Bortasqu' thread like what happened with the Galaxy Class. (not that it resulted in anything substantial)
And finally, I'll be honest and say that my biggest issue with "Bortasqu' improvements" is what you partially said yourself - the chance of Cryptic buffing it in a meaningfull way is small. 'Meaningfull' being the keyword here. Chances are that if Cryptic ever gets to it - it will be some lazy rushed patchwork like what happend with the "Galaxy Revamp". I just don't want to wake up one day and realize that due to forum complaints they messed up the ship I happen to love by taking away cruiser commands, slapping a hangar or even sth. more radical suggested here like making the Comm.Boff be tactical.
I knew what I was buying when I bought it. I knew what to expect. I knew that I'd like it since I enjoy big, slow turning, heavy ships - it's not a matter of being a "special snowflake", it's a matter of those ships fitting my playstyle like a glove. That's why I own every cruiser/bc in STO.
What I'm seeing in threads like this one is people wanting to "improve" the ship by turning it into a Vor'cha (when there is a Vor'cha), a Kar'fi (when there is a Kar'fi), a Corsair (when there is a Corsair).....you get my point.
There are alternatives in the lineup for more or less everything that has been suggested as improvement for the Bortasqu' in these threads. It's like me wanting to have 15 turn rate on the Galaxy because I like the iconic hull, but I prefer escorts. Like that guy yesterday that wanted the Romulan faction to be integrated into the Federation because he wants a Romulan that flies an Odyssey, and when people linked him a tutorial how to make alien gen Romulans he said that that doesn't cut it for him because he wants to have Romulans with SRO using Oddys and Fed. uniforms. *shrugs*
The Bortasqu' is the only slow turning "heavy" cruiser KDF side. People like me that enjoy such ships should have an option as well. I'm also alregic to hangars and I bought a ship that doesn't have one on purpose. There are a bunch of faster, more nimble battlecruisers in the lineup to choose from - Vor'cha-R, Kamarag, Tor'kaht, Mogh, K'tinga, Negh'var and now even the Qib.
The only thing this ship really needs is bringing the shield mod on the same level with the rest of the cruisers and maybe an inertia modifications, although I know people that will argue against the inertia thing because they mastered powerslides on the big thing.
The "unique snowflake" remark was completely unnecessary and only shows how little you udnerstood what I'm trying to say. I don't care if everyone in STO plays the ship, do you really think I get some weird satisfaction of having a ship suposedly no one uses? (although there are a lot of them everytime I log in)
Furthermore, I hope you're aware that a forum is a place for debating different opinions so someone opening a thread and expecting only people who like and support their view to participate is nearly impossible. What I'm saying is that this is No. 1.547.055 "Bortasqu' sucks" thread and it's starting to look like all those Connie and U.S.S. Vengeance threads in the past. If the idea of the ship sucking has such a big following at least localize it into one official Bortasqu' thread like what happened with the Galaxy Class. (not that it resulted in anything substantial)
And finally, I'll be honest and say that my biggest issue with "Bortasqu' improvements" is what you partially said yourself - the chance of Cryptic buffing it in a meaningfull way is small. 'Meaningfull' being the keyword here. Chances are that if Cryptic ever gets to it - it will be some lazy rushed patchwork like what happend with the "Galaxy Revamp". I just don't want to wake up one day and realize that due to forum complaints they messed up the ship I happen to love by taking away cruiser commands, slapping a hangar or even sth. more radical suggested here like making the Comm.Boff be tactical.
I knew what I was buying when I bought it. I knew what to expect. I knew that I'd like it since I enjoy big, slow turning, heavy ships - it's not a matter of being a "special snowflake", it's a matter of those ships fitting my playstyle like a glove. That's why I own every cruiser/bc in STO.
What I'm seeing in threads like this one is people wanting to "improve" the ship by turning it into a Vor'cha (when there is a Vor'cha), a Kar'fi (when there is a Kar'fi), a Corsair (when there is a Corsair).....you get my point.
There are alternatives in the lineup for more or less everything that has been suggested as improvement for the Bortasqu' in these threads. It's like me wanting to have 15 turn rate on the Galaxy because I like the iconic hull, but I prefer escorts. Like that guy yesterday that wanted the Romulan faction to be integrated into the Federation because he wants a Romulan that flies an Odyssey, and when people linked him a tutorial how to make alien gen Romulans he said that that doesn't cut it for him because he wants to have Romulans with SRO using Oddys and Fed. uniforms. *shrugs*
The Bortasqu' is the only slow turning "heavy" cruiser KDF side. People like me that enjoy such ships should have an option as well. I'm also alregic to hangars and I bought a ship that doesn't have one on purpose. There are a bunch of faster, more nimble battlecruisers in the lineup to choose from - Vor'cha-R, Kamarag, Tor'kaht, Mogh, K'tinga, Negh'var and now even the Qib.
The only thing this ship really needs is bringing the shield mod on the same level with the rest of the cruisers and maybe an inertia modifications, although I know people that will argue against the inertia thing because they mastered powerslides on the big thing.
You can't seriously say "You want turn? Fly a Vorcha" -- that's asinine.
You want slow? Fly a fed. How's that? You want stupidly slow and lumbering? Fly a fed cruiser. Or a carrier. There are plenty of slow ships out there that wallow and lumber. They're NOT battlecruisers. The Borty is a battlecruiser and should be so.
The good thing about the borty, which WOULD be its saving grace if it were playable, is the boff setup. You paid good money for a little extra hull on a solid battlecruiser, but specifically for a battlecruiser with universal boffs. That means you can keep the same ship if you want to change your setup to run ENG heavy. You can keep the same ship if you want to squeaze as much DPS from it. You can keep the same ship if you want to run grav well. The flexible boffs allow you to do that.
However, the entire point of the ship is negated by the fact that it can't turn at all. it is not a battlecruiser.
It's beyond childish and selfish to simply say "*I* like it, you can all go fly a different ship if you don't" -- it's the equivelant of saying "you can all rot!" and has no place in this discussion.
It's beyond childish and selfish to simply say "*I* like it, you can all go fly a different ship if you don't" -- it's the equivelant of saying "you can all rot!" and has no place in this discussion.
It's also just as bad to say "I don't like it for x reason, so no one else should like to too."
You want slow? Fly a fed. How's that? You want stupidly slow and lumbering? Fly a fed cruiser. Or a carrier. There are plenty of slow ships out there that wallow and lumber. They're NOT battlecruisers. The Borty is a battlecruiser and should be so.
Sorry, but your analogy is broken. I went to a KDF shop. I saw a 5.5 turn rate Bortasqu' in the window and decided that I like one. Walked in the shop, asked the clerk about the preformance and decided to buy one for myself, fully aware what I'm getting. I don't need to go Fed, the ship was already offered to me as a KDF player.
If a slow ship wasn't offered for the KDF then your argument could've had some basis. As it is, all I'm hearing is buyers remorse because you bought sth. without thinking it through.
The good thing about the borty, which WOULD be its saving grace if it were playable, is the boff setup. You paid good money for a little extra hull on a solid battlecruiser, but specifically for a battlecruiser with universal boffs. That means you can keep the same ship if you want to change your setup to run ENG heavy. You can keep the same ship if you want to squeaze as much DPS from it. You can keep the same ship if you want to run grav well. The flexible boffs allow you to do that.
However, the entire point of the ship is negated by the fact that it can't turn at all. it is not a battlecruiser.
I can turn the ship fairly well. Sure it's not an escort nor a nimble battlecruiser and it's not suposed to be - it's a darned Goliath. I can line up the DHC/Turret combiantion fairly easily in PvE. What people need to realize is that it's not a PvP ship. You won't win a dogfight in a DHC/Turret Bortasqu'. And besides, PvP is broken.
Also a fun fact, regardless that I know the ship is classified as a battlecruiser - their C-Store names are Bortaqu' Tactical/War/Operations cruiser. But I sign that off on sloppy work.
It's beyond childish and selfish to simply say "*I* like it, you can all go fly a different ship if you don't" -- it's the equivelant of saying "you can all rot!" and has no place in this discussion.
Selfish? "You can all rot"? Don't you think you're overreacting?
I bought a ship fully knowing and understanding what I was buying, I happen like it and enjoy it just as I expected and have no remorse whatsoever, but then you come wanting to change the ship for everyone - even those of us who enjoy it just because you made an unifromed purchase yourself and are experiencing buyers remorse. And I'm the selfish one here?
Yeah, a slow turning ship just feels better to me. Actually the only reason I even checked out the KDF side one day was because of Window shopping this thing. 5 Tac consoles and slow turn? Same boff setup as the oddy yet...5 tac consoles? lol
So I bought it and only thing I've never liked was the Console set. Other then learning how to keep the thing alive. In the first few days It just felt squishy. But I realized that's because with 5 Tac consoles I was aggroing everything back then. So had to make adjustments to more Survivability. It's still, to me. One of the best cruisers in the game.
All my toons pretty much fly that Factions big slow turning ships. That's the ships I go back to after buying and getting bored of the newest ship release.
Maybe part of the reason I love them is you have to take Positioning more into account. And mess up that position and Pay the price by trying to turn the thing around. But, Pilot it right and it feels amazing. lol
However, the entire point of the ship is negated by the fact that it can't turn at all. it is not a battlecruiser.
I think you've missed the entire point; that while the majority of a class of ship have things in common, there also CAN be cases were they are completely different. All things branch out like that
The Bortasqu' is essentially a battlecruiser, but it is not a regular one, and shouldn't be a regular one. It's a class of battlecruiser all it's own, difficult to fly like the usual battlecruiser, but that's the point.
Giving it turn rate would just turn it into a regular one. A number here don't want that, even knowing (and some enjoying) how slow it flies
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Yeah, they're classifications for ships leaves a bit to be desired. When I first flew the Bortasqu, It flet to me like a battleship.
Slow and much like a floating city. lol. First ship where I could think about there being this massive crew on board. Easy to RP in I guess.
Where I guess I could see the other point of view that they tagged it, even with the T5U "Battlecruiser" package. But, I never saw it in the same class.
I am glad it gets that package bonus, Love the ship.
Loyal to it, Flew all my other KDF vessels to make sure what I want to upgrade. And I came back to this. Best ship KDF side IMO.
None of which disproves my point, imo; it's a slow battlecruiser in comparison to it's other cousins (not like the naval examples was a given really), with more power than speed. No one has denied any of that, but the practicality in PvP is not the issue being argued
A number of us who fly it don't think it's gimped as much as you say (or at all) - I myself have flown it since it came out, over all the others that came out, which I have test-drived. I keep flying the Bortasqu' not just because I like the ship, but because it's powerful to fly.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
This is the problem we have with this ship in the first place. A handful of people who originally feared it for pvp concerns were able to dictate turning it into the TRIBBLE it is now. Its obvious to the vast majority of the KDF that the amount of consoles it wastes for mediocre stats and as well it was stated to not be designed to use torpedoes or cannons but yet can mount dual cannons and has a cannon for one of those consoles which was rhetorical then as it is now. The evidence is there the only time you see one in game is when you see someone who just realized they have just been robbed of their dilithium/zen.
Yes, it's turnrate and inertia are no problem at all, I mean it's not like this player has the fastest turning engines (well, three-way tie) in the game with +5 inertia compensation, Momentum and the other two traits from the current lockbox, EPtE active, along with Aux2Bat. It's fine un-buffed, as is, you know, so long as you buff the TRIBBLE out of it. Probably has Helmsman too.
Which DPS is the second Bortasqu' that took the screenshot, BTW? This is showing a Teammate.
I think it comes down to definition... see, for my money (and when discussing the Bort, money IS an issue) "Powerful" has to include "Ability to bring power to bear."
...
Dreadnought Battleship, with a boost to crew resist built in, something to resist holds inherent to the design (aka fixed equipment) etc.
I certainly feel that there should be a reworking of the flagships or a new variant of the ship altogether. As a big heavy juggernaut ship of the line it should reflect that style more fully.
Take away the comms, add strong defensive capabilities or even greater firepower. The bonuses to the hull should reward brawling style combat. The reward for keeping a ship in the arcs should be greater considering how difficult it is. Perhaps additional forward weapons are needed. Or a damage bonus while in reverse. Science ships will have two arrays, why not some sort of extra item for flag ships, either defensive or offensive.
For PVP you need a fast ship that can lay down a lot of fire power, so it's extremely rare to see one in PVP.
PVE is a different story altogether. I set mine up as a siege ship, I use a grav well or the subspace snare to lock an enemy in position, active either my red matter capacitor or other battery skill then hit with the disruptor auto-cannon and or graviton beam from the 3 piece Adapted KHG space set. works out pretty well. My doffs are setup to reduce cooldowns from many skills.
I prefer the Assimilated set on mine, personally. Assimilated Tractor Beam + Disruptor Auto-cannon is a good combo for anything stupid enough to hang around in front of the ship for too long - good enough to mow down most battleships or a pesky undine cruiser in short order.
Not to mention the set gives the already beefy ship great staying power in extended skirmishes. It's no Bastion, but my Bortasqu outperforms my Regent both in damage and survivability. The.. maneuvering issue.. just requires strategic thinking/piloting.
I am half-tempted to do a lancing build with the thing using the Delta set just to prove a point though..
I think there is something to be said about the fact that after two years the ship still generates so much interest or ire. So many ships fall into obscurity and yet not this one. Only the galaxy class has evoked stronger sentiment.
I think cryptic would go well to tap into this somehow. Or ask themselves why.
People complaining about the new difficulty levels. Roflstomped several elite PvEs with the Command Bortasqu'. While PUG-ing. With fubar graphics and a ship UI that loks like this:
The only way I'll leave the Bortas is if they shut down the game.
I'm playing through the DR story arc with one of my Fed captains first (I know, heresy, but he was my very first STO character so he gets preferential treatment on new releases), and his Fleet Regent was the only ship I've purchased a token for so far. The only KDF ship I've upgraded is my Peghqu, since that was a freebie. I'm sure my Bort will be going into drydock for a refit to T5U at some point in the near future. I still want to see a T6 Bortasqu' Retrofit!
What's that, you say? How can you be so sure the Borty is unsavable before while now you say "maybe?"
I've learned of 2 things.
First, there is a Conductive RCS console that can, when it has GOLD quality and [TURN] random modifier, result in +100% turn rate. That's double what you get, stock. I run a couple of dil mine Enhanced RCS consoles with +resall and +kinres on them, but these only give about +42% turn rate at ultra rare Mk XII. If I swapped both of those with Conductive RCS' with [Turn]? You see where I'm going here...
Second, tier 2 Delta rep ship traits include "enhanced engines" or whatever it's called. It adds a little speed but also +30% turn rate.
Put these together? And the Bort just might be worthy. The problem is the price.
Running the Tier2 rep with 2x Ultra Rare Mk XII dil mine consoles just to feel it out, it's still to sluggish. It's better, no doubt about it. The problem is that, even if I swap out my 2 consoles for one Conductive RCS, I'm still not QUITE there where the ship should be. And: If I swap both out for Conductive RCS consoles, I'm still in the bad position where I'm short on 2 console slots that I shouldn't have to waste on RCS consoles. I'm finding the console layout quite cramped since 5 of them are TAC consoles. There's assimilated, there's aceton, there's autocannon, there's plasmonic, oh, then I get 4 tac consoles to actually use for TAC consoles. Then I get 2 left over. Too bad I can't use them for anything good. Nope: they have to go to RCS consoles, just to bring the ship to a level that's "not quite there."
So.... There's SOME hope. It's not perfect, but the power creep rampant in this game is bringing new things that our Borty might benefit from. a minor boost in [turn] being one of them! Maybe we'll get a console or some set bonus in the future that isn't % based. Maybe it will simply say flat-out "adds 8 turn rate." On that day, the Borty fans will probably rejoice (and all those carrier pilots with 5 base turn rate).
That's double what you get, stock. I run a couple of dil mine Enhanced RCS consoles with +resall and +kinres on them, but these only give about +42% turn rate at ultra rare Mk XII. If I swapped both of those with Conductive RCS' with [Turn]? You see where I'm going here...
You can only have one Conductive RCS per ship last I checked.
As far as more stuff to bolt on:
The Momentum trait from the last lockbox that improves turnrate the longer you're in combat, and the much older and more expensive Helmsman trait improves it all the time
Particle Exciters can have a [Turn] modifier
Tachyokinectic converter has it's turnrate and crits scale nicely with Mk and rarity, so Mk XIV Gold should be suitably epic
EPtE gives a flat turnrate boost and you can keep pretty high up time on it with Damage Control Engineers
Aux2Damp is a nice turnrate boost and DOffs can extend it's duration and give energy resist
Qib's Starship Trait gives a turnrate boost with cannon fire
The Pilot Specialization tree has boosts that help out with 'turreting' a ship while not moving, and boosts the help when backing up to keep a target in the forward arc instead of making 'passes'
That's only a few hundred Mil EC, hundreds of thousands of Dil, and 3000Z for that list. It's probably easier to get a Mat'ha or T5-U Guramba with 5 Tac consoles to be at the same level of tankiness as a Bort, than it is to get a Bort to turn well.
You can only have one Conductive RCS per ship last I checked.
As far as more stuff to bolt on:
The Momentum trait from the last lockbox that improves turnrate the longer you're in combat, and the much older and more expensive Helmsman trait improves it all the time
Particle Exciters can have a [Turn] modifier
Tachyokinectic converter has it's turnrate and crits scale nicely with Mk and rarity, so Mk XIV Gold should be suitably epic
EPtE gives a flat turnrate boost and you can keep pretty high up time on it with Damage Control Engineers
Aux2Damp is a nice turnrate boost and DOffs can extend it's duration and give energy resist
Qib's Starship Trait gives a turnrate boost with cannon fire
The Pilot Specialization tree has boosts that help out with 'turreting' a ship while not moving, and boosts the help when backing up to keep a target in the forward arc instead of making 'passes'
That's only a few hundred Mil EC, hundreds of thousands of Dil, and 3000Z for that list. It's probably easier to get a Mat'ha or T5-U Guramba with 5 Tac consoles to be at the same level of tankiness as a Bort, than it is to get a Bort to turn well.
The other thing to add onto the cost of getting all that stuff is one of the most important of all:
The cost in terms of "build space." We're talking precious Trait Slots, Console Slots, BOFF ability slots. You can only have so much into a build to make the Bortasqu' turn like other Battlecruisers, esp if you want DHCs. There comes a point that you put so much build space into making something perform better in an aspect that other parts get weaker or not as strong as they could be.
Contrast this to, say, a T5u Fleet Vor'Cha, Fleet Mogh, T6 Qib, etc. These ships already, inherently turn quite well, esp the Vor'Cha and Qib. You could probably tack on an A2D as your sole "movement boost" to make them perform and handle that much better, yet still put build space into making them tougher or harder hitting.
On a related note, people have berated the Guardian due to its turn. However, with my Fed TAC, I ensured I had 50 or so Engine Power, 6 pts into Starship Impulse Engines Skill, I ran 2 piece Omega Set (Eng & Deflector, shield is TERRIBLE in taking damage). I had a DOFF'ed A2D in the build. I had that ship moving very well, turning fairly nicely like a Mogh/Avenger, throwing out GWs, TS3 Dyson Grav Torps, broadsiding with BFAW. But then again, the ship also has better inertia than the Bortasqu' and does not slide 20km further down the road when you want to change directions.
Looks like they messed up with the Bortasq in STFs
parsing an ISA, CSA, KSA usualy give me at least +50% dmg in when I'm Lucky and most of the time it's +70% dmg in (dmg deal by NPC on me).
Before DR I had to be with a realy lazy team to die in STF now even with a full team of scimi doing more dmg than me I die by agroing everything on map.
I even saw a TAC cube on ISA behing gate with 4 teamate on it, going back to spam pts as soon as I respawn after it chased me to death.
I tried this on 3 chars : A space TAC that can do +30K DPS without dying (pre DR)
a space ENG that also do +30k DPS and a ground ENG with green stuff and stock bortasq consoles.
the result is the same as long as I'm alive NPC ignore my teamate and chase me on map.
I have nothing in TC skills and no stuff that increase TC.
BTW I'm not sure since I didnt parse while flying it but looks like I had same trouble with QIB.
Tried with the Mahta, even my TAC never died.
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
As far as I'm concerned, the turn rate is no longer a factor. The Qib Trait(a single turret will give you near-100% uptime, but I use Quad Disruptors for the extra forward 'bite'), a pair of RCS, and APO have left me feeling like... I'm piloting a massive, blood-crazed shark that practically swims/flies sideways. Pilot spec is not even needed.
Momentum is still the ship's biggest hurdle(and joy) - something APO can nullify when a situation requires it(like dropping out of full impulse; plus the damage boost is nice for the decloaking alpha-strike).
Comments
The "unique snowflake" remark was completely unnecessary and only shows how little you udnerstood what I'm trying to say. I don't care if everyone in STO plays the ship, do you really think I get some weird satisfaction of having a ship suposedly no one uses? (although there are a lot of them everytime I log in)
Furthermore, I hope you're aware that a forum is a place for debating different opinions so someone opening a thread and expecting only people who like and support their view to participate is nearly impossible. What I'm saying is that this is No. 1.547.055 "Bortasqu' sucks" thread and it's starting to look like all those Connie and U.S.S. Vengeance threads in the past. If the idea of the ship sucking has such a big following at least localize it into one official Bortasqu' thread like what happened with the Galaxy Class. (not that it resulted in anything substantial)
And finally, I'll be honest and say that my biggest issue with "Bortasqu' improvements" is what you partially said yourself - the chance of Cryptic buffing it in a meaningfull way is small. 'Meaningfull' being the keyword here. Chances are that if Cryptic ever gets to it - it will be some lazy rushed patchwork like what happend with the "Galaxy Revamp". I just don't want to wake up one day and realize that due to forum complaints they messed up the ship I happen to love by taking away cruiser commands, slapping a hangar or even sth. more radical suggested here like making the Comm.Boff be tactical.
I knew what I was buying when I bought it. I knew what to expect. I knew that I'd like it since I enjoy big, slow turning, heavy ships - it's not a matter of being a "special snowflake", it's a matter of those ships fitting my playstyle like a glove. That's why I own every cruiser/bc in STO.
What I'm seeing in threads like this one is people wanting to "improve" the ship by turning it into a Vor'cha (when there is a Vor'cha), a Kar'fi (when there is a Kar'fi), a Corsair (when there is a Corsair).....you get my point.
There are alternatives in the lineup for more or less everything that has been suggested as improvement for the Bortasqu' in these threads. It's like me wanting to have 15 turn rate on the Galaxy because I like the iconic hull, but I prefer escorts. Like that guy yesterday that wanted the Romulan faction to be integrated into the Federation because he wants a Romulan that flies an Odyssey, and when people linked him a tutorial how to make alien gen Romulans he said that that doesn't cut it for him because he wants to have Romulans with SRO using Oddys and Fed. uniforms. *shrugs*
The Bortasqu' is the only slow turning "heavy" cruiser KDF side. People like me that enjoy such ships should have an option as well. I'm also alregic to hangars and I bought a ship that doesn't have one on purpose. There are a bunch of faster, more nimble battlecruisers in the lineup to choose from - Vor'cha-R, Kamarag, Tor'kaht, Mogh, K'tinga, Negh'var and now even the Qib.
The only thing this ship really needs is bringing the shield mod on the same level with the rest of the cruisers and maybe an inertia modifications, although I know people that will argue against the inertia thing because they mastered powerslides on the big thing.
well said
You want slow? Fly a fed. How's that? You want stupidly slow and lumbering? Fly a fed cruiser. Or a carrier. There are plenty of slow ships out there that wallow and lumber. They're NOT battlecruisers. The Borty is a battlecruiser and should be so.
The good thing about the borty, which WOULD be its saving grace if it were playable, is the boff setup. You paid good money for a little extra hull on a solid battlecruiser, but specifically for a battlecruiser with universal boffs. That means you can keep the same ship if you want to change your setup to run ENG heavy. You can keep the same ship if you want to squeaze as much DPS from it. You can keep the same ship if you want to run grav well. The flexible boffs allow you to do that.
However, the entire point of the ship is negated by the fact that it can't turn at all. it is not a battlecruiser.
It's beyond childish and selfish to simply say "*I* like it, you can all go fly a different ship if you don't" -- it's the equivelant of saying "you can all rot!" and has no place in this discussion.
It's also just as bad to say "I don't like it for x reason, so no one else should like to too."
Yes I can and I just did. You may dislike it, but that's another discussion entirely.
Sorry, but your analogy is broken. I went to a KDF shop. I saw a 5.5 turn rate Bortasqu' in the window and decided that I like one. Walked in the shop, asked the clerk about the preformance and decided to buy one for myself, fully aware what I'm getting. I don't need to go Fed, the ship was already offered to me as a KDF player.
If a slow ship wasn't offered for the KDF then your argument could've had some basis. As it is, all I'm hearing is buyers remorse because you bought sth. without thinking it through.
I can turn the ship fairly well. Sure it's not an escort nor a nimble battlecruiser and it's not suposed to be - it's a darned Goliath. I can line up the DHC/Turret combiantion fairly easily in PvE. What people need to realize is that it's not a PvP ship. You won't win a dogfight in a DHC/Turret Bortasqu'. And besides, PvP is broken.
Also a fun fact, regardless that I know the ship is classified as a battlecruiser - their C-Store names are Bortaqu' Tactical/War/Operations cruiser. But I sign that off on sloppy work.
Selfish? "You can all rot"? Don't you think you're overreacting?
I bought a ship fully knowing and understanding what I was buying, I happen like it and enjoy it just as I expected and have no remorse whatsoever, but then you come wanting to change the ship for everyone - even those of us who enjoy it just because you made an unifromed purchase yourself and are experiencing buyers remorse. And I'm the selfish one here?
So I bought it and only thing I've never liked was the Console set. Other then learning how to keep the thing alive. In the first few days It just felt squishy. But I realized that's because with 5 Tac consoles I was aggroing everything back then. So had to make adjustments to more Survivability. It's still, to me. One of the best cruisers in the game.
All my toons pretty much fly that Factions big slow turning ships. That's the ships I go back to after buying and getting bored of the newest ship release.
Maybe part of the reason I love them is you have to take Positioning more into account. And mess up that position and Pay the price by trying to turn the thing around. But, Pilot it right and it feels amazing. lol
The Bortasqu' is essentially a battlecruiser, but it is not a regular one, and shouldn't be a regular one. It's a class of battlecruiser all it's own, difficult to fly like the usual battlecruiser, but that's the point.
Giving it turn rate would just turn it into a regular one. A number here don't want that, even knowing (and some enjoying) how slow it flies
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Slow and much like a floating city. lol. First ship where I could think about there being this massive crew on board. Easy to RP in I guess.
Where I guess I could see the other point of view that they tagged it, even with the T5U "Battlecruiser" package. But, I never saw it in the same class.
I am glad it gets that package bonus, Love the ship.
Loyal to it, Flew all my other KDF vessels to make sure what I want to upgrade. And I came back to this. Best ship KDF side IMO.
A number of us who fly it don't think it's gimped as much as you say (or at all) - I myself have flown it since it came out, over all the others that came out, which I have test-drived. I keep flying the Bortasqu' not just because I like the ship, but because it's powerful to fly.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
37k - ISE
http://postimg.org/image/qcaw08a0d/full/
may be the problem is not the ship.. just saying
Yes, it's turnrate and inertia are no problem at all, I mean it's not like this player has the fastest turning engines (well, three-way tie) in the game with +5 inertia compensation, Momentum and the other two traits from the current lockbox, EPtE active, along with Aux2Bat. It's fine un-buffed, as is, you know, so long as you buff the TRIBBLE out of it. Probably has Helmsman too.
Which DPS is the second Bortasqu' that took the screenshot, BTW? This is showing a Teammate.
Take away the comms, add strong defensive capabilities or even greater firepower. The bonuses to the hull should reward brawling style combat. The reward for keeping a ship in the arcs should be greater considering how difficult it is. Perhaps additional forward weapons are needed. Or a damage bonus while in reverse. Science ships will have two arrays, why not some sort of extra item for flag ships, either defensive or offensive.
Maybe a secondary shield.
For PVP you need a fast ship that can lay down a lot of fire power, so it's extremely rare to see one in PVP.
PVE is a different story altogether. I set mine up as a siege ship, I use a grav well or the subspace snare to lock an enemy in position, active either my red matter capacitor or other battery skill then hit with the disruptor auto-cannon and or graviton beam from the 3 piece Adapted KHG space set. works out pretty well. My doffs are setup to reduce cooldowns from many skills.
It all depends on how you setup the ship.
Not to mention the set gives the already beefy ship great staying power in extended skirmishes. It's no Bastion, but my Bortasqu outperforms my Regent both in damage and survivability. The.. maneuvering issue.. just requires strategic thinking/piloting.
I am half-tempted to do a lancing build with the thing using the Delta set just to prove a point though..
I think cryptic would go well to tap into this somehow. Or ask themselves why.
The ship's a beast. Don't mess with the Zohan. :cool:
Ofcourse!
The only way I'll leave the Bortas is if they shut down the game.
I'm playing through the DR story arc with one of my Fed captains first (I know, heresy, but he was my very first STO character so he gets preferential treatment on new releases), and his Fleet Regent was the only ship I've purchased a token for so far. The only KDF ship I've upgraded is my Peghqu, since that was a freebie. I'm sure my Bort will be going into drydock for a refit to T5U at some point in the near future. I still want to see a T6 Bortasqu' Retrofit!
Maybe.
What's that, you say? How can you be so sure the Borty is unsavable before while now you say "maybe?"
I've learned of 2 things.
First, there is a Conductive RCS console that can, when it has GOLD quality and [TURN] random modifier, result in +100% turn rate. That's double what you get, stock. I run a couple of dil mine Enhanced RCS consoles with +resall and +kinres on them, but these only give about +42% turn rate at ultra rare Mk XII. If I swapped both of those with Conductive RCS' with [Turn]? You see where I'm going here...
Second, tier 2 Delta rep ship traits include "enhanced engines" or whatever it's called. It adds a little speed but also +30% turn rate.
Put these together? And the Bort just might be worthy. The problem is the price.
Running the Tier2 rep with 2x Ultra Rare Mk XII dil mine consoles just to feel it out, it's still to sluggish. It's better, no doubt about it. The problem is that, even if I swap out my 2 consoles for one Conductive RCS, I'm still not QUITE there where the ship should be. And: If I swap both out for Conductive RCS consoles, I'm still in the bad position where I'm short on 2 console slots that I shouldn't have to waste on RCS consoles. I'm finding the console layout quite cramped since 5 of them are TAC consoles. There's assimilated, there's aceton, there's autocannon, there's plasmonic, oh, then I get 4 tac consoles to actually use for TAC consoles. Then I get 2 left over. Too bad I can't use them for anything good. Nope: they have to go to RCS consoles, just to bring the ship to a level that's "not quite there."
So.... There's SOME hope. It's not perfect, but the power creep rampant in this game is bringing new things that our Borty might benefit from. a minor boost in [turn] being one of them! Maybe we'll get a console or some set bonus in the future that isn't % based. Maybe it will simply say flat-out "adds 8 turn rate." On that day, the Borty fans will probably rejoice (and all those carrier pilots with 5 base turn rate).
You can only have one Conductive RCS per ship last I checked.
As far as more stuff to bolt on:
The Momentum trait from the last lockbox that improves turnrate the longer you're in combat, and the much older and more expensive Helmsman trait improves it all the time
Particle Exciters can have a [Turn] modifier
Tachyokinectic converter has it's turnrate and crits scale nicely with Mk and rarity, so Mk XIV Gold should be suitably epic
EPtE gives a flat turnrate boost and you can keep pretty high up time on it with Damage Control Engineers
Aux2Damp is a nice turnrate boost and DOffs can extend it's duration and give energy resist
Qib's Starship Trait gives a turnrate boost with cannon fire
The Pilot Specialization tree has boosts that help out with 'turreting' a ship while not moving, and boosts the help when backing up to keep a target in the forward arc instead of making 'passes'
That's only a few hundred Mil EC, hundreds of thousands of Dil, and 3000Z for that list. It's probably easier to get a Mat'ha or T5-U Guramba with 5 Tac consoles to be at the same level of tankiness as a Bort, than it is to get a Bort to turn well.
The other thing to add onto the cost of getting all that stuff is one of the most important of all:
The cost in terms of "build space." We're talking precious Trait Slots, Console Slots, BOFF ability slots. You can only have so much into a build to make the Bortasqu' turn like other Battlecruisers, esp if you want DHCs. There comes a point that you put so much build space into making something perform better in an aspect that other parts get weaker or not as strong as they could be.
Contrast this to, say, a T5u Fleet Vor'Cha, Fleet Mogh, T6 Qib, etc. These ships already, inherently turn quite well, esp the Vor'Cha and Qib. You could probably tack on an A2D as your sole "movement boost" to make them perform and handle that much better, yet still put build space into making them tougher or harder hitting.
On a related note, people have berated the Guardian due to its turn. However, with my Fed TAC, I ensured I had 50 or so Engine Power, 6 pts into Starship Impulse Engines Skill, I ran 2 piece Omega Set (Eng & Deflector, shield is TERRIBLE in taking damage). I had a DOFF'ed A2D in the build. I had that ship moving very well, turning fairly nicely like a Mogh/Avenger, throwing out GWs, TS3 Dyson Grav Torps, broadsiding with BFAW. But then again, the ship also has better inertia than the Bortasqu' and does not slide 20km further down the road when you want to change directions.
That blows. Seriously.
That also really lowers my reaction from "maybe" to "not really"...
And yes, I'm in total agreement that all other ships are better than the Bortasqu. I simply had a glimmer of slim hope, but it is now gone.
parsing an ISA, CSA, KSA usualy give me at least +50% dmg in when I'm Lucky and most of the time it's +70% dmg in (dmg deal by NPC on me).
Before DR I had to be with a realy lazy team to die in STF now even with a full team of scimi doing more dmg than me I die by agroing everything on map.
I even saw a TAC cube on ISA behing gate with 4 teamate on it, going back to spam pts as soon as I respawn after it chased me to death.
I tried this on 3 chars : A space TAC that can do +30K DPS without dying (pre DR)
a space ENG that also do +30k DPS and a ground ENG with green stuff and stock bortasq consoles.
the result is the same as long as I'm alive NPC ignore my teamate and chase me on map.
I have nothing in TC skills and no stuff that increase TC.
BTW I'm not sure since I didnt parse while flying it but looks like I had same trouble with QIB.
Tried with the Mahta, even my TAC never died.
Momentum is still the ship's biggest hurdle(and joy) - something APO can nullify when a situation requires it(like dropping out of full impulse; plus the damage boost is nice for the decloaking alpha-strike).
and pvp isn't? :P