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Can the Bortasqu' be saved?
hornet6
Member Posts: 101 Arc User
It seems that the Bortasqu' gets bashed on a regular basis. I use mine (predominately the Command cruiser) on a regular basis and have tried all the more popular builds and all three captain types with top end rep gear and a couple of fleet items too. I hold my own in elite STF's but am constantly clobbered in pvp. I would like to increase effectiveness in the former and become at least mildly competitive in the latter. I like cruiser type ships and play the various models almost exclusively.
The only console on my Bortasqu' 3-pack that seems to be even remotely useful is the auto-cannon but the cooldown is so outrageous that it's almost a one-shot per scenario proposition. The other Bort consoles are almost annoying.
I don't have access to a tier 4 negh'var so my question is, can the Bortasqu' be made useful? If so, what general type of build suggestions might people offer, there may be one I haven't yet discovered (A2b not being one of them) or is my Bortasqu' simply a hopeless garbage scow? If the latter, what would be the best alternative Klingon faction cruiser, T5 or even c-store but not lockbox?
Any thoughts?
The only console on my Bortasqu' 3-pack that seems to be even remotely useful is the auto-cannon but the cooldown is so outrageous that it's almost a one-shot per scenario proposition. The other Bort consoles are almost annoying.
I don't have access to a tier 4 negh'var so my question is, can the Bortasqu' be made useful? If so, what general type of build suggestions might people offer, there may be one I haven't yet discovered (A2b not being one of them) or is my Bortasqu' simply a hopeless garbage scow? If the latter, what would be the best alternative Klingon faction cruiser, T5 or even c-store but not lockbox?
Any thoughts?
ANOTHER NERF !?!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by hornet6 on
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Comments
As far as PVP goes, I don't PVP but from what I've seen and read the Bort's extreme lack of manuverability cripples it in PVP. It's way too easy for an enemy escort captain to get onto your tail, and you're never going to be able to shake him off. Your teammates will hate you because they'll be spending most of their time trying to save you from your own whaleness. Bort is a terrible choice for PVP.
Also....I wouldn't recommend you buy any new ship now, not with T6 coming out soon.
That's where I'd look
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
To save it? Cryptic needs to bump the turn rate up to 10 and the inertia rate up to match the Negh'Var at least. Then make the cooldown on the autocannon 1.5 minutes. It's not THAT good a weapon.
Well in it's defense it DOES look really cool.
And it would be great if the autocannon were an innate ability, as opposed to demanding a precious console slot.
Also...give the BoP pet carrier commands, so it can at least try to be useful.
This. A sci bort is probably the best of the set and DDIS had a rather good build going for it a while back.
I concur. ddis knows his stuff.
I love my Bortasqu', but I rarely PvP and when I do it - I do it with a BoP. So my build is probably not very PvP reliable. A ddis build however, is fine tuned to the very limits of the ship in PvP.
That's the problem. At the time it was part of the 3-pack craze (still ongoing, WORSE now with the 9-pack DSD, all of which are 99% identical). The 3-console gimmicks that sucked and were never any incentive to buy all 3 ships, etc...
It was purely marketting nonsense to try to sell more, but as far as incentives go they failed as badly as the ship. The autocannon SHOULD have been innate in the ship, just like the Gal-X's spinal lance.
We need more things tied to ships as innate abilities and less gimmick consoles. You want to sell us a console cryptic? Make it original! None of this gimmick TRIBBLE. None of this "repackage something already in the game in several other places and tie it to a console" nonsense. Make a unique interesting console which may or may not be useful depending on a player's style.
Barrier console is just cool. Maybe not the best and maybe not always effective, but an awesome idea for a console. Aceton Assimilator, awesome idea for a console, regardless if you think it's OP or not. Point Defense System console: great idea! Maybe the cooldown is too long, but it's unique and interesting.
Then we get to the lame boring re-hashed consoles that all of the recent ships have had... I mean, vatas? Spacial charge? It's just a rehash of the Bio-Neural Warhead console. subspace snare and jumper are really the same thing, and are being spammed nonstop by NPCs in one form or another (different names, but the same effect) -- especially voth. So what do you do? You rehash it for like the 10th time on the Constellation class and call it "The Picard Maneuver"... Yeah..... riiiiight...
You want to make incentives to buy ships? Go back and look at some of the earlier ship designs. Look at the creativity that went into them. Let us CUSTOMIZE a ship. If we have 4 skins of interchangable parts to pick and choose, that ship is 10x more valuable to us than one with a fixed skin and limited selection of materials. Look at some of the old school stuff. Also maybe put some unique weapons in there. Not OP, just different. 180 quantum was, for its time, revolutionary, and very useful. I know several folks that bought that ship for this weapon alone. I know *I* bought a ship for the quad cannons alone. Neither of these is the best weapon in its category, but they both did something unique at the time and helped us customize our builds how we wanted.
I agree, I own the 3-pack, but haven't flow it in months and months. Really gave up using it as a cruier at all once I bought the Mogh.
I created a thread requesting that very thing. The faction flagships (Odyssey, Scimitar, Bortasqu) deserve a bump to full T6, not T5U.
Would certainly be nice. They did that, I'd buy a Bortasqu on DR launch day.
Besides, imagine you're KDF High Command. Do YOU want to listen to Koren when she finds out her ship is obsolete? I'd rather listen to ESD zone chat. :eek:
I LOL'ed...
The Bortasqu' needs to be bad azz. I mean just look at it. I personally don't think Cryptic will save it, seems they hate everything I like, or just give it to the feds... :mad:
The terran battle cruiser-- *cough!!* The bortasqu' needs some serious turn rate and shield HP buff. All I asks for really. Oh, oh, those consoles and the "99 cent" cloak needs to be fixed. Cheapest cloak in the universe. People can detect me 7 km away.... Not joking about that cryptic.
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The bort does great without the set but the auto cannon does amazing damage, way better than the galaxy x lance. The 2pc set lowers the cool down by a lot and the 3 pc set gives the hoh'sus APB, subspace jump, and an auto cannon. The Hoh'sus also redistributes it's own shields so it's really survivable.
Let's just see what the T5U versions have.
oh and with the unintentional console upgrade my borts are turning really nice!!
wow...where's that snark coming from?
sorry for having a different opinion
next time ill make sure to just copy and paste your ideas...
The bort can use beams and the command version is amazing in pvp...oh wait...the bort sucks.
Sorry, I started thinking for myself again...
I suggest you think about speeding up your reaction time, and while in flight use ploys, so after the burst you can return some of that damage. I think this is the correct thread that may help you out in that area.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=285491
The principles are the same.
And I'd tell my allies use me as bait for a trap, if you have to scarifice me, do so.
Btw doesn't Stragetic Manvuering Cruiser Command not help the Bortasqu? +3 turn rate and improved inertia, and 10% flight speed.
Another interesting possiblity would be to use the Photonic Decoy console, people swarm a Bortasqu that isn't there!
You make a lot of assumptions. The bort has problems no doubt, but I pvp in the command bort all the time. I reliably get kills and I rarely die. Am I going to chase sdown a zippy escort? Nope. Am I going to take out a dedicated healer or a faw boat? Yeah I am. The command bort is really the only reliable pressure build in the game because of SA and its 4 tac consoles. I would also like to point out, as others have, that DDIS has a killer bort beam boat. If you want to park on his rear, you're going to die.
Also, I dont parse. I just rely on time to kill and the fact I can save pugs and solo a whole side of KASE. I've even soloed both sides of probes witha dhc bort. Maneuvering isn't as bad as it once was with mine consoles and strategic maneuvering.
Due to Cryptic's totally farcical and completely boliixed Crew/Hull Repair mechanic, having anything more than 500 crew is a hindrance, and having 2000+ means that it will take roughly twice the curent age of the universe to repair your hull .. .Which is actually the exact opposite of what it''s supposed to do.
The two Romulan whales (the D'dex and the Harpy) both suffer from similar problems as the Bort, but the D'D suffers less due to slightly less crew, and yes the ydo have a slightly better shield modifier.
If they dropped the crew down to 1200, and gave it a 1.1 shield modifier, you'd see a massive improvement.
Anything they do to help all cruisers and such, helps all other ships more than it helps the Bort itself.
Take for example cruiser commands. Did those help cruisers? Yes. But did it really close the gap at all between the Bort and others? Not really, as all the other cruisers can usually make better usage of the commands.
Or take crew, if they ever removed it, it would help the Bort out, but it'd help other crew-handicapped ships even more, like even the Mogh would be better served without dealing with the crummy crew mechanic.
So really in the end the changes they need to make for the Bort itself are simple:
Bump up the base turn a degree or two.
Remove the old outdated nerfed cloak the Bortas has and give it the same cloak as any other battlecruiser.
Give it a 1.1 shield modifier.
I don't think it needs anything more than that. No major overhauls, no hangars, just those small changes, and I think it'd be a lot more accepted by people.
i dont believe this is the reason why.
the real reason is they are easy to kill. and killing the enemy is the name of the game in PvP
Seriosuly, I'm really getting sick and tired of these "Bortasqu sux0rz" threads. It's a damn good ship, it's not for everyone - for a certain playstyle it shines, for another one it sucks. Not everything is for everyone, let's leave it at that and stop this headbanging between 2 groups with exponentially different opinions that is going on for 2 years now.
And don't brng PvP into the discussion. When was the last time you've seen a Galaxy-R in serious PvP? Negh'var? D'Deridex? Ha'akona? Star Cruiser? Get my point yet? In terms of PvP, it's the game not the ship.
I am not sure the truth is really hate. personally i have the 3 pac and i used the Bort until the day i tried a fleet tork. Ill say this if i had to choose between a Mogh and a Bort id take the Bort.
all the Mogh is good for is A2B . if you dont run it you are just gimping yourself from what a tork is capable of doing.
but really telling the truth is not hate it is what it is. neat looking ship that can do allot buy not as much as it should be able to do. it has some sever issues that could be fixed. it was poorly designed with these issues incorporated into it from the get go.
IMHO and IME the Bortasqu was the BEST KDF battlecruiser for PvP before Legacy of Romulus, which introduced the EptE spam and also popularized the whole a2b madness.
But prior to that I, as a tac captain, had my tricks for getting a beed on any target, and completely tearing up virtually any cruiser or escort with a full barrage of DHC's Turrets and a Beam Overload III + Autocannon combo.
Even today, pretty much anything that stays in a properly armed and primed Borts crosshairs is dead meat.
The main setback it suffers from is mobility in the game, but thats not a failing of the ship itself.
Rather, its Cryptic who failed big time in balancing, by making an ensign level power being able to more or less completely negate most holds, and even achieve near-100% uptime of near full impulse speeds, making fast and maneuvrable ships overpowered to the extreme.
However, I do agree that the Bortasqu could use some buffs, as could the Odyssey.
Both ships have a rather poor 3-piece set synergy and some awfully crappy set pieces, compared to the scimitar.
But It also boosted fast and agile ships ten times more. :rolleyes:
Just because most players don't know what to do with her, does not in any way make her a bad ship.
Pre-LoR I almost never died on a Bort, and would score kill after kill.
I could even without warning spin around on a dime and splatter an escort captains face before he/she would even be able to react.
Having *taken* a Bort into PVP, I'll beg to differ.
On release, the Bort was a godsend to my engineer in PVP and seemed able to rack up some decent kills while tanking like mad - on one memorable occasion withstanding a trio of Sad Pandas before they got bored and went for easier prey. In fairness they had no Sci or I'd have been toast.
Most recently, it's found a niche as a FAW spam supressor - actually very useful in a 10v10 where the other side has 3 carriers!
Bottom line IMO is that the Bort is no worse than the decent Fed cruisers, the problem is people expect to fly it like a Vor'cha when it's not. I would, however, reserve my praise for the command variant; the others are rather redundant by comparison.
That said, I think that the Bort would benefit from a fundamental rething. Its design screams siege ship - a slow, lumbering flying gun- but the autocannon is too slow firing, and its weapons too dispersed to do this idea justice. Make it a 5/3 or a 6/2 ship, boost the turn a little, and drop the cooldown on the autocannon. Then, I think, you'd have an interesting, unique and characterful ship.