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Tier 5 Starship Upgrades

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  • bryguy#1741 bryguy Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm more concerned about the competitive gap between T5U and T6 ships. As it stands, T5U will have:

    - 1 less Mastery Level
    - No Starship Trait
    - No extra Boff slot
    - No Specialist Boff Slot

    The Specialist Boff can stay with the T6, but the T5U should get everything else, especially if this is going to cost us money.

    I'm not happy about paying for a third time for my ship (C-Store, Fleet, now Update), but I am more concerned about the benefit gap that will exist. I don't want to pay for my ship to be vastly inferior/obsolete.


    Thank you,
    Thank you for the T6 Galaxy Class. - I support Tovan Khev. - Please bring back the exploration missions.
  • induperatorinduperator Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    To This day you can still easily do Elite content with a Tier 4 or even Tier 3 ship Delta Rising will be no different. The anger is from people who have to have the very best top of the line ships to satisfy their Ego.

    I'm still going to be flying my Wells and my Nicor.
  • suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
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    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My thoughts:

    - I am not surprised about there being a cost for upgrading T5 ship
    -- They did not have to offer an upgrade option.
    -- I hope they reconsider and make the upgrade cost 250 zen per ship, but would also like a bundle discount for multiple ship upgrade.

    - For those who do not like the new skins then use the old ones when you customize your ship.


    I have to say that I am really disappointed with this community. For those who thought the upgrades would be free, all I can say is I do not know where your head is. Every MMO that is free to play comes with new better stuff that will cost something with every expansion this one is no different. How can anyone be surprised that Tier 6 ship will be better than Tier 5 and not expect them to be created with Cap being raised? Remember PWE/Cryptic is a company and they have to make money to keep going otherwise the game will have to close down if they are unable to create income to keep the developers and servers going. Also remember that the expansion is free. I really think they should charge for the expansions.

    I didn't expect it free but I expected the cost to be worth it. right now it is not.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    To This day you can still easily do Elite content with a Tier 4 or even Tier 3 ship Delta Rising will be no different. The anger is from people who have to have the very best top of the line ships to satisfy their Ego.

    I'm still going to be flying my Wells and my Nicor.

    These are the same devs that also said they're going to make the new content for the new expansion much more challenging.

    Which statement is true? They can't BOTH be true.

    Funny thing is ... it's the same contradiction that people are experiencing with the T5/T6 jawn.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • harryhausenharryhausen Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Since literally every other MMO I have ever played has made 100% of my items and gear instantly obsolete at every expansion/level cap increase, I really don't get all of the whining. If WoW or LotRO let me upgrade some of my hard-ground end-game gear to even blue quality new endgame gear for $5 a pop, when they issued an expansion, I'd be all over it.

    I think a lot of people don't understand the mechanics involved either, like complaining that Cryptic isn't making up unique traits for all the T5 ships so there will be 'true parity' with T6 ships. If you want a particular T6 ship trait so badly, you can level the T6 ship, switch back to your T5-U, and still use the trait. Ta-daaaa....parity!

    The whole purpose of an expansion is to give people more reason to play the game. Based on its f2p model, if you want to get in game stuff without playing the game (why, I dunno...) you can go the C-Store and buy it for cash.

    I don't understand complaining that you don't want to play the game or pay money, you just want in game stuff handed to you so you can...I dunno...sit on it? Brag about it on channel? How can you brag if you and everyone else are just handed the best stuff in the game?

    BridgeBOPSTIII.jpg

  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Don't know if this was suggested before, however, I think that it would be better to just charge 500-1,000 Zen to an account. That one time will unlock T5-U upgrades on all ships for that account.

    The reason I suggest this is because there was a system put in place to encourage us to swap between ships, and use different load outs on each one. Therefore, it only makes sense that there are those that like using multiple ships they have, instead of flying one all the time. And many were already bought with Zen.

    So, if you charge for each type of ship, it will only discourage a lot of players from buying any upgrades, or T6 ships. Especially for ones that bought the bundles. They spend $50.00 (US) and are now asked to spend another $15.00 per bundle. That makes it $65.00 for a bundle.

    Now, when you consider that a lot of players also have at least one character on each faction, and they might have a bundle on each, that will be $45.00 more than they already spent. And this doesn't even include the other T5 ships they have.

    Then, some of them are free, while others need to be pains for. I can understand the event ships being free, as well as the vet ships. However, the Lobi, and Lockbox ships are as well? What sets the Lobi, and Lockbox ships apart? I know some who spent one key to get their Lockbox ships, while others spent more. Is it because they don't have a set price to get?

    This is why it would be fair, and reasonable to only charge a single 500-1,000 Zen charge per account. This will unlock ALL T5 ships to T5-U. It will also be what would unlock all Lobi, and Lockbox ships as well.

    Using this method will help to make all ships upgraded at the same price, and will make it fair across the board. Also, it will make Cryptic, and PWE look a LOT less greedy. With the planned idea of charging per ship type, it just makes them look desperate, and greedy for money.
    Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
  • gagocashgagocash Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm more concerned about the competitive gap between T5U and T6 ships. As it stands, T5U will have:

    - 1 less Mastery Level
    - No Starship Trait
    - No extra Boff slot
    - No Specialist Boff Slot

    The Specialist Boff can stay with the T6, but the T5U should get everything else, especially if this is going to cost us money.

    I'm not happy about paying for a third time for my ship (C-Store, Fleet, now Update), but I am more concerned about the benefit gap that will exist. I don't want to pay for my ship to be vastly inferior/obsolete.


    Thank you,
    And I'm sure they will find a way to charge you a 4th time for the same ship. hahaha
    forget your dreams to have a "lifetime ship" in sto, this does not exist.

    P.S. welcome to greed rising the newest episode in greed online.
    M.A.C.O. ELITE COMMANDER & KIRK'S PROTEGE
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    razar2380 wrote: »
    Don't know if this was suggested before, however, I think that it would be better to just charge 500-1,000 Zen to an account. That one time will unlock T5-U upgrades on all ships for that account.

    The reason I suggest this is because there was a system put in place to encourage us to swap between ships, and use different load outs on each one. Therefore, it only makes sense that there are those that like using multiple ships they have, instead of flying one all the time. And many were already bought with Zen.

    So, if you charge for each type of ship, it will only discourage a lot of players from buying any upgrades, or T6 ships. Especially for ones that bought the bundles. They spend $50.00 (US) and are now asked to spend another $15.00 per bundle. That makes it $65.00 for a bundle.

    Now, when you consider that a lot of players also have at least one character on each faction, and they might have a bundle on each, that will be $45.00 more than they already spent. And this doesn't even include the other T5 ships they have.

    Then, some of them are free, while others need to be pains for. I can understand the event ships being free, as well as the vet ships. However, the Lobi, and Lockbox ships are as well? What sets the Lobi, and Lockbox ships apart? I know some who spent one key to get their Lockbox ships, while others spent more. Is it because they don't have a set price to get?

    This is why it would be fair, and reasonable to only charge a single 500-1,000 Zen charge per account. This will unlock ALL T5 ships to T5-U. It will also be what would unlock all Lobi, and Lockbox ships as well.

    Using this method will help to make all ships upgraded at the same price, and will make it fair across the board. Also, it will make Cryptic, and PWE look a LOT less greedy. With the planned idea of charging per ship type, it just makes them look desperate, and greedy for money.
    I like your idea. I don't wanna pay but that is a REALLY good idea. :D
    signature.png
  • tuskin67tuskin67 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Thank you for continuing to ignore us. I will now be taking my leave. Bye Bye STO.

    He just answered a bunch of questions, how is that ignoring?
  • harryhausenharryhausen Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    razar2380 wrote: »
    Also, it will make Cryptic, and PWE look a LOT less greedy. With the planned idea of charging per ship type, it just makes them look desperate, and greedy for money.

    Corporations, by definition, cannot be greedy. Corporations exist to make money. That is their sole purpose for existence. They cannot be greedy or generous. Corporations that make more money or are better at making money are better corporations. Corporations that make less money or are worse at making money are worse corporations. Every single company you will ever deal with in this world has only one goal: maximizing profits. In the United States, its literally illegal for them to do anything else. The stockholders can sue if the officers do anything other than maximize their dividends.

    What you want is to get more out of the game while playing it less and investing less money. How is that in Cryptic's interest?

    BridgeBOPSTIII.jpg

  • quistraquistra Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hi all,

    I wanted to pop in and answer some common questions that I am seeing. Some I have already answered, but it might be nice to have them all in one place.

    Q: Will Fleet Ship Upgrades be account unlock? Or single unlock per character?

    A: Fleet Ships Upgrades are account unlocks. However, you must still purchase the Fleet ship to be upgraded on another character. I answered this in an earlier post, but I admit it could have been a little more clear.

    Example: You purchase a fleet ship for fleet modules and fleet credits on character A. You then decide to upgrade this ship to T5-U and must pay the upgrade cost. You log onto character B and you want to get the Fleet T5-U ship. Character B will need to spend the fleet modules and fleet credits associated with this ship, but the upgrade to Fleet T5-U will be free.

    Q: Will there be a noticeable difference between an upgraded regular T5 ship vs an upgraded T5 Fleet ship?

    A: Yes. The difference between a T5 ship and a Fleet T5 ship will be the same as the difference between a T5-U ship and a Fleet T5-U ship. In short, the Fleet T5-U ship will have 10% more hull and shield HP and have +1 console slot over a standard T5-U ship.

    Q: Why don't T5-Us get level 5 in Starship Mastery?

    A: I think there's a bit of confusion of what these levels actually mean. Levels 1-4 on both T5-Us and T6 ships are the same. They're passive buffs for your ship. They're the same strength as well. So, a +damage buff Starship Mastery ability on a T5-U Escort is the same as a T6 Escort. Level 5 is a starship trait unlock. There is no additional benefit. Since T5-Us don't have a starship trait unlock, they don't need level 5.

    Q: Will this upgrade system affect Shuttlecraft in any way?

    A: Shuttles will not be upgradeable. They will not be affected by this system at all since Shuttle content is effectively leveless.

    Q: Will/can the Ambassador Class Ship included in this upgrade? Either the Aniv Version or the Fleet equivalent?

    A: The Support Cruiser Retrofit (earned from completing Temporal Ambassador while the 2013 Anniversary Event was active) is not upgradeable, however the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit is upgradeable to T5-U.

    I know many of you still have many burning questions. Some of them we just can't talk about yet as we're still early in development, or we the information will be released in a future blog post. Anyhow, I hope these answers help clear up some confusion.

    Best Regards,
    Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski

    That doesn't really answer the question of how a T5U ship is supposed to be "competitive" with one less bridge officer ability.
    The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
    Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I like your idea. I don't wanna pay but that is a REALLY good idea. :D

    Thanks, but I got the idea from how they do the other unlocks in the game, like the EC cap increase, and character slots.
    Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
  • asardetemplariasardetemplari Member Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If they want to make it more challenging, then people are going to want the firepower to not get killed, and kill the other guy. Wait... are Undines male? Do they have chick Undines? :o
    latest?cb=20160406061118&path-prefix=en

    Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
  • kodiak44kodiak44 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I am so mad now. Cryptic finally releases the ship i have always wanted. Now i find out that it will not be upgradeable, and will not be able to particpate in some of the new content. Im speaking of the Mirror Universe Science Vessel Retrofit. The Nova class is my favrote class of ship, and i love the Mirror Universe. I was over joyed when cyptic released the a tier 5 Nova class, with the mirror paint job. The bridge officer station set up is so great. The ship does really well competeing with even Z-store ships. Now with the upcoming new expansion, i will ether have to buy a whole new ship from the Z-store (which wont be the hull style i want) or buy a D'kyr (second fav hull style) and upgrade that. The D'kyr lacks the turn performance of the Nova class tho.

    Im not in a fleet and dont want to be, so getting a fleet nova class isnt an option, and even if i did it wouldnt have the mirror paint job. Its unfair that i should have change to a whole new set up just because i didnt pay zen for my ship. Im happy with the ship i have there should be kind of answer for this. As no mirror ship is upgradeable, then the players who want to keep them should be able to pay a higher zen cost for the T5-U upgrade. I think thats a good answer, and PWE still gets there money. Since thats all PWE really cares about anyway.
  • phalanx01phalanx01 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    These are the same devs that also said they're going to make the new content for the new expansion much more challenging.

    Which statement is true? They can't BOTH be true.

    Funny thing is ... it's the same contradiction that people are experiencing with the T5/T6 jawn.

    Something lot of people haven't considered yet that the so called "powercreep" won't be fixed by making content "easier" so "older" ships can play em as well. It's just so double sided right now... I suppose we'll have to wait for a more detailed blog on the content we can expect.
  • phalanx01phalanx01 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If they want to make it more challenging, then people are going to want the firepower to not get killed, and kill the other guy. Wait... are Undines male? Do they have chick Undines? :o

    Uhm according to the Doctor from VOY they've got 5 different genders... hard to tell.
  • harryhausenharryhausen Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    quistra wrote: »
    That doesn't really answer the question of how a T5U ship is supposed to be "competitive" with one less bridge officer ability.

    Its competitive in that when you're doing PVE content you won't notice the difference, is what they've now said over and over and over again. If you're wanting to min/max for PVP, then you're going to have to constantly upgrade to whatever the new hotness is. Goes with the territory.

    Btw, if T5-U and T6 were absolutely identical, why would anybody shell out for T6 ships? What would even be the point of having a T6 in the first place?

    BridgeBOPSTIII.jpg

  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    razar2380 wrote: »
    Thanks, but I got the idea from how they do the other unlocks in the game, like the EC cap increase, and character slots.

    I'd go further and say: 500-1000 zen for account upgrades on both ships AND mk XII gear (rep, lobi, and fleet). That is the closest to a compromise as I am gonna get with these guys.
    signature.png
  • quistraquistra Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Its competitive in that when you're doing PVE content you won't notice the difference, is what they've now said over and over and over again. If you're wanting to min/max for PVP, then you're going to have to constantly upgrade to whatever the new hotness is. Goes with the territory.

    Btw, if T5-U and T6 were absolutely identical, why would anybody shell out for T6 ships? What would even be the point of having a T6 in the first place?

    Same reason lots and lots of people bought the Dyson ships: The gimmick.

    "You won't notice the difference in PVE" is a paper argument. I notice the difference between a T4 ship and a T5 ship in the fewer bridge officer abilities. In this case, Extra hull points don't paper over the difference. Beyond that, the story content is only part of the game.

    So what you're saying is it doesn't matter if my T5U sucks because all I have to do is not play anything but story content? That sounds like a great solution.
    The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
    Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hi all,

    I wanted to pop in and answer some common questions that I am seeing. Some I have already answered, but it might be nice to have them all in one place.

    Q: Will Fleet Ship Upgrades be account unlock? Or single unlock per character?

    A: Fleet Ships Upgrades are account unlocks. However, you must still purchase the Fleet ship to be upgraded on another character. I answered this in an earlier post, but I admit it could have been a little more clear.

    Example: You purchase a fleet ship for fleet modules and fleet credits on character A. You then decide to upgrade this ship to T5-U and must pay the upgrade cost. You log onto character B and you want to get the Fleet T5-U ship. Character B will need to spend the fleet modules and fleet credits associated with this ship, but the upgrade to Fleet T5-U will be free.

    Q: Will there be a noticeable difference between an upgraded regular T5 ship vs an upgraded T5 Fleet ship?

    A: Yes. The difference between a T5 ship and a Fleet T5 ship will be the same as the difference between a T5-U ship and a Fleet T5-U ship. In short, the Fleet T5-U ship will have 10% more hull and shield HP and have +1 console slot over a standard T5-U ship.

    Q: Why don't T5-Us get level 5 in Starship Mastery?

    A: I think there's a bit of confusion of what these levels actually mean. Levels 1-4 on both T5-Us and T6 ships are the same. They're passive buffs for your ship. They're the same strength as well. So, a +damage buff Starship Mastery ability on a T5-U Escort is the same as a T6 Escort. Level 5 is a starship trait unlock. There is no additional benefit. Since T5-Us don't have a starship trait unlock, they don't need level 5.

    Q: Will this upgrade system affect Shuttlecraft in any way?

    A: Shuttles will not be upgradeable. They will not be affected by this system at all since Shuttle content is effectively leveless.

    Q: Will/can the Ambassador Class Ship included in this upgrade? Either the Aniv Version or the Fleet equivalent?

    A: The Support Cruiser Retrofit (earned from completing Temporal Ambassador while the 2013 Anniversary Event was active) is not upgradeable, however the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit is upgradeable to T5-U.

    I know many of you still have many burning questions. Some of them we just can't talk about yet as we're still early in development, or we the information will be released in a future blog post. Anyhow, I hope these answers help clear up some confusion.

    Best Regards,
    Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski

    you are missing the point. You have render all our fleet efforts and zen ships COMPLETELY USELESS> I won't mind the upgrade cost if it WAS AN ACTUAL UPGRADE. DUDE PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY LEFT THE GAME. YOU JUST SCREWED YOURSELVES.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    you are missing the point. You have render all our fleet efforts and zen ships COMPLETELY USELESS> I won't mind the upgrade cost if it WAS AN ACTUAL UPGRADE. DUDE PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY LEFT THE GAME. YOU JUST SCREWED YOURSELVES.

    Yep, but I have no doubt that they don't care.
    signature.png
  • firefox3178firefox3178 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Its competitive in that when you're doing PVE content you won't notice the difference, is what they've now said over and over and over again. If you're wanting to min/max for PVP, then you're going to have to constantly upgrade to whatever the new hotness is. Goes with the territory.

    Btw, if T5-U and T6 were absolutely identical, why would anybody shell out for T6 ships? What would even be the point of having a T6 in the first place?

    Exactly. Why do we even need T6s to begin with? They could have just said all your T5s can be upgraded to T5U for the new content and been done with it. They would have made plenty off all the upgrades people would do in order to keep flying the ships they have sunk resources, time, and heart into. And the T5 C-Store ships would still be safe to buy.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
  • edited August 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Yep, but I have no doubt that they don't care.

    they should they are using long time lifers with this.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Cryptic's taken care of us before

    I'm afraid not. They've been lacking on that front since Season 7 or so.
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  • buddha1369buddha1369 Member Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    razar2380 wrote: »
    This is why it would be fair, and reasonable to only charge a single 500-1,000 Zen charge per account. This will unlock ALL T5 ships to T5-U. It will also be what would unlock all Lobi, and Lockbox ships as well.

    Using this method will help to make all ships upgraded at the same price, and will make it fair across the board. Also, it will make Cryptic, and PWE look a LOT less greedy. With the planned idea of charging per ship type, it just makes them look desperate, and greedy for money.

    How is it fair and "make all ships upgraded at the same price" when someone would pay the same price to upgrade 3 ships as anther person would to upgrade 30?
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    they should they are using long time lifers with this.

    Yes they should, you will get no argument from me. But reality is, they care more about potential customers than the ones they already have.
    signature.png
  • harryhausenharryhausen Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    quistra wrote: »
    So what you're saying is it doesn't matter if my T5U sucks because all I have to do is not play anything but story content? That sounds like a great solution.

    No, I'm saying that its okay that your T5-U won't be the most powerful ship in the game. If you want to have the most powerful ship/loadout in the game, you will always be on a treadmill, constantly having to upgrade the ship and pieces of gear as new things come out. That's part of the hardcore playstyle. Its part of what makes it fun.

    In this game, like any other game, people who devote more time and money to the game will always get more out of it than people who devote less time and money. That's life in the big city. You can't play casually and expect to compete with the hardcore.

    BridgeBOPSTIII.jpg

  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Wait, did Gorngonzolla just say they are still early in developement ? :eek:
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