Lemme ask you this, how many times, inbetween leveling up, did you buy really expensive gear/ships? The likely answer: you didn't. And why not? Because you, like most ppl, probably waited for end-game level before getting the good stuff.
Wrong.
not only are you not qualified to speak for what "most people" do while leveling, you're 100% off on me.
I own nearly every ship in the game, at all tiers. Why? Ships are the game for me. I love the various designs, both visual and in terms of mechanics. Yeah, there are some ships I simply don't use because I can't make them "sing". But that doesn't mean nobody can.
Oh, and I bought a good percentage of them for the early levels, and during the early levels.
And now imagine this.... your end-level ships suddenly aren't end-level any more. THAT is what's it's all about. DPS only plays into it, insofar that it causes your ships to be suboptimal, as you call it. I daresay it's the monetary investment in lockbox/C-Store ships that most ppl are (pre-emptively) worried about losing.
So? Can I still do the missions? Great! Other than that, I DON'T CARE. However, this isn't about PvE and you know it. I post on the forums a little, but I read a lot. Tracing very nearly every volatile and rage-filled thread about T6 ships leads inevitably back to one of two things: speed runs or PvP.
Speed runs are some people's obsession. Fine. more power to them. But you can't build the entire game around it.
PvP is something where Cryptic has legitimate problems. They don't seem to have any idea how to balance not only the factions, but the careers and the ship types anymore. Throwing more power at the problem in the form of bigger shinier ships isn't a solution. Getting them to balance the game and not crying every time a change is made that nerfs YOUR build is.
There will be a (confirmed) upgrade-path. But the cost of it is still unknown. So, if it turns out to take. say, 4 ship modules per upgrade after all, many there be (including yours truly) who would consider their ships effectively obsoleted, after all.
Again, you're using "obsolete" in place of "nonoptimal", unless you're talking exclusively about speed-runs and PvP.
If you are, well...be part of the real solution (advocating for balance), rather than the problem (raging about having to pay for more shiny pure-DPS ships to overcome the lack of balance).
I own nearly every ship in the game, at all tiers.
For starters, that's simply technically impossible. I am at max ships, and no way I own 'nearly every ship in the game, at all tiers.' Not even close.
Again, you're using "obsolete" in place of "nonoptimal", unless you're talking exclusively about speed-runs and PvP.
Not only are you not qualified to tell ppl what words they can use, you're 100% off on me, as I don't care for speed runs, let alone PvP.
I *do* care about investments, though. Or, put differently, I don't throw away money frivolously, and only spend it on stuff I reasonably think will hold its value. And the larger the investment, the larger my concern when it's potentially in jeopardy.
If you are, well...be part of the real solution (advocating for balance), rather than the problem (raging about having to pay for more shiny pure-DPS ships to overcome the lack of balance).
Balance went out the airlock ages ago. The biggest wallet gets the biggest ship. Been that way since like for ever.
PvP and balance, of course, have nothing to do with the question whether our T5 ships will be obsoleted or not.
Not to mention that your ****ty game ui cannot even handle several activation at the same time?!
wtf bro?
The ****ty game UI did this on purpose, I think, so as not to allow you to ready your ueber-alpha strike within the span of just a single second. Kinda makes sense, too.
The ****ty game UI did this on purpose, I think, so as not to allow you to ready your ueber-alpha strike within the span of just a single second. Kinda makes sense, too.
No it doesn't. Not including any such sort of super combos would have made sense. Not gimping the ui on purpose.
When the activation of a weapon cancels out the activation of a power, like a heal for example, or the activation of shield re-balancing ruins your power activation then that is not clever game design. Its moronic.
There is reason why people bind all their stuff to one key and then hammer that key mercilessly. That reason is: If you hammer the key every second you can be sure that your powers activate, gui lag or not.
Oh and one last thing: This is the champions online engine, which already had the same problem.
No it doesn't. Not including any such sort of super combos would have made sense. Not gimping the ui on purpose.
When the activation of a weapon cancels out the activation of a power, like a heal for example, or the activation of shield re-balancing ruins your power activation then that is not clever game design. Its moronic.
There is reason why people bind all their stuff to one key and then hammer that key mercilessly. That reason is: If you hammer the key every second you can be sure that your powers activate, gui lag or not.
Oh and one last thing: This is the champions online engine, which already had the same problem.
It's essentially an undocumented ½ second or so global cooldown.
No it doesn't. Not including any such sort of super combos would have made sense. Not gimping the ui on purpose.
When the activation of a weapon cancels out the activation of a power, like a heal for example, or the activation of shield re-balancing ruins your power activation then that is not clever game design. Its moronic.
There is reason why people bind all their stuff to one key and then hammer that key mercilessly. That reason is: If you hammer the key every second you can be sure that your powers activate, gui lag or not.
Oh and one last thing: This is the champions online engine, which already had the same problem.
I'm actually not so sure I *want* all my powers activated at the same time! The order of activation matters. Like I want to activate a TS3 only *after* I set APO3, for instance.
I understand that, fully, but it goes back to my original question.
This isn't the first time that end level ships have ceased to be THE end level.
Yes it is.
nine console fleet ships are still useable at endgame without any problems. I used the free Assult cruiser for years without any problem at endgame.
In fact the first time they raised the level cap the new T5 ships they released then weren't any better either they just had some gimmick that wasn't even really necessary.
For some reason people seem to forget that they didn't scale up the difficulty of any of the endgame content when releasing C-store ships, lock box ships, and fleet ships.
Now apparently they are adding stuff that is more difficult thus requiring you to either buy the new T6 ships or use the upgrade system they are hinting at.
I *do* care about investments, though. Or, put differently, I don't throw away money frivolously, and only spend it on stuff I reasonably think will hold its value. And the larger the investment, the larger my concern when it's potentially in jeopardy.
Then play the stock market. You're buying pixels here, pal. Pixels have no intrinsic value except in terms of fun.
Have you had fun with the ships you bought? Great! Value realized. Move on.
Why will there be upgraded T6 Ships? Are we going to be facing more difficult content somehow?
Is it not enough that Fleet 5.5 ships in rep gear are taking 49k dmg from Planet Killers through max shields? That the bio cruisers BO is hitting for 29k a pop? Those legendary Borg invisible torpedoes?
I mean if it weren't for active DR abilities, it wouldn't matter what ship or gear you have, you're still being ohko.
So T5 and 5.5 are comparable to T6. Ok, I'll take that to mean, aside from the extra BoFF slots, extra console slots, extra weapon slots, and buffed stats, you're still going to be ohko by absurd damage from mobs with millions of HP.
I'm more interested in whether or not these new ships are going to be good looking designs that make sense in the game or more nonsensical alien hybrid TRIBBLE.:rolleyes:
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Am I the only person on here actually fine with a level cap increase and T6 ships?
Furthermore, looks like most people on the forums cannot read.... How many times have they said that the T5 ships will NOT be obsolete? so the ships that people bought are still gonna be fine. I think we are long over do for an increase.
TheGrateLordeCheesus Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM Doesn't Owe AnyoneEC Kirks Prot
Am I the only person on here actually fine with a level cap increase and T6 ships?
Furthermore, looks like most people on the forums cannot read.... How many times have they said that the T5 ships will NOT be obsolete? so the ships that people bought are still gonna be fine. I think we are long over do for an increase.
No, your not. I laugh and snicker at all the doom and gloom stuff too. Everything we have now, will still be just as good as it is and will more than sufficient to play DR and deal with the new T6 ships until we all have a chance to decide if we like them enough to bother buying them.
Warp on!
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
No, your not. I laugh and snicker at all the doom and gloom stuff too. Everything we have now, will still be just as good as it is and will more than sufficient to play DR and deal with the new T6 ships until we all have a chance to decide if we like them enough to bother buying them.
Warp on!
Agreed. I personally look forward to the new T6 raptor. It looks combat ready. :cool:
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
No, your not. I laugh and snicker at all the doom and gloom stuff too. Everything we have now, will still be just as good as it is and will more than sufficient to play DR and deal with the new T6 ships until we all have a chance to decide if we like them enough to bother buying them.
Warp on!
Yes it will be more than enough to play the new content, but you are wrong if you thing everything we have now will be as good as the new "stuff".
Am I the only person on here actually fine with a level cap increase and T6 ships?
Furthermore, looks like most people on the forums cannot read.... How many times have they said that the T5 ships will NOT be obsolete? so the ships that people bought are still gonna be fine. I think we are long over do for an increase.
Yes it will be more than enough to play the new content, but you are wrong if you thing everything we have now will be as good as the new "stuff".
I never said that. I never said that what we have will be just as good as the new stuff.
I said it will be as good as it is now. Nothing is being de-stated or rendered useless. Which is the claim a lot of the doom and gloom tries to make.
They go on claiming that everything we have now will be obsoleted by T6 ships and Mk XIV gear,... I dispute that. Everything we have now will be just as good as it is now and will more than sufficient for lvl 60 content. Just as Mk X and/or Mk XI gear is now more than sufficient for lvl 50 content,... does Mk XII do it better? Of course, but you don't NEED it to play and play well.
We will not NEED Mk XIII or Mk XIV gear to play the new expansion either. Mk X/XI/XII will be more than sufficient, until we see exactly what is being released, compare it's usefulness to what we have now, decide if we like it or not, and then make the decision to either buy or not,..
Nothing will really change except, more options on things to buy.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Yes in the Q&A - Al Rivera did say you could upgrade them to be competitive - BUT - and he was pretty excited when he said that you would "want to buy the new T6 ships because of all the new powers and abilities that ONLY the new Tier 6 ships will have"
So as it stands right now - the new Tier 6 ships will be like a new car released - they have new powers/features that the older models don't get.
"New" powers doesn't mean BETTER powers. Just means DIFFERENT powers.
As far as I'm concerned, if my Wells ship and it's Temporal Set can be upgraded then I'll be happy without the need to buy a new ship. Just how many ships in STO can actually use Time itself as a power?
"New" powers doesn't mean BETTER powers. Just means DIFFERENT powers.
As far as I'm concerned, if my Wells ship and it's Temporal Set can be upgraded then I'll be happy without the need to buy a new ship. Just how many ships in STO can actually use Time itself as a power?
Oh come now, given the track record, do you really think that PWE/Cryptic is going to get it right and the tier 6 ships are not going to be completely better than anything that came before?
Sorry you are giving PWE way too much credit. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am. And remember, they said you'd be able to upgrade your ships to comparable to the tier 6 ships, but not as strong.
And usually when PWE puts out something new, it's usually better. Has been since I started playing the game. To say otherwise, that's being naive.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Oh come now, given the track record, do you really think that PWE/Cryptic is going to get it right and the tier 6 ships are not going to be completely better than anything that came before?
Sorry you are giving PWE way too much credit. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am. And remember, they said you'd be able to upgrade your ships to comparable to the tier 6 ships, but not as strong.
And usually when PWE puts out something new, it's usually better. Has been since I started playing the game. To say otherwise, that's being naive.
Talonxv, the least we can do is wait and see the actual stats first. Yes, I agree with you that the T6 will have to better to the point that it'll prompt people to get the new ships. How much? Who knows? It depends on how they are going to scale enemies at that level too. Maybe it'll turn out to be negligible. Once more information for Delta Rising hits, we can do what we do best: Adapt. At this point, we're wasting words to just pass the time.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
Talonxv, the least we can do is wait and see the actual stats first. Yes, I agree with you that the T6 will have to better to the point that it'll prompt people to get the new ships. How much? Who knows? It depends on how they are going to scale enemies at that level too. Maybe it'll turn out to be negligible. Once more information for Delta Rising hits, we can do what we do best: Adapt. At this point, we're wasting words to just pass the time.
I stand by my opinion that the ships will look different, but won't be superior to an upgraded ship.
Everyone was thinking about how awesomesauce the Dyson Destroyers were going to be. Well, I don't see too many of them out there after all this time since Step Between Stars was released. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Cryptic still hasn't gotten around to providing any Secondary Deflectors (who wants to fly around in a ship where it has a "decaying" deflector?).
I stand by my opinion that the ships will look different, but won't be superior to an upgraded ship.
Everyone was thinking about how awesomesauce the Dyson Destroyers were going to be. Well, I don't see too many of them out there after all this time since Step Between Stars was released. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Cryptic still hasn't gotten around to providing any Secondary Deflectors (who wants to fly around in a ship where it has a "decaying" deflector?).
Then you're going to be quite niave. I mean what's the draw to those ships if they are NOT superior?
It's a waste if they are not. Sorry can't have it both ways and the DSD is not a good analogy. I mean they were supposed to be good for science oriented characters and they are. They are still good ships but they were balanced around 1 thing. They were in the end still tier 5 ships.
I don't think they are going to be OP uber awesomesauce ships. I do think however they will be a cut above tier 5, even after refits to almost hit their level.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
They go on claiming that everything we have now will be obsoleted by T6 ships and Mk XIV gear,... I dispute that.
You dont need to dispute anything. Its a fact. MK X-XII gear and ships below T6 will be obsolete against the new stuff. Thats a fact like a temple. Specially weapons and equipment. Upgraded ships will still be really effective, but soon you will see the game plagued with genuine tier 6 ships. Because it doesnt matter if you upgraded your ship, the logic suggest that tier 6 ships will be just BETTER, that simple. When you have a tier 1 ship, you wanted a tier 2. When you had a tier 2, you wanted a tier 3 ship... you see the pattern here?
Comments
not only are you not qualified to speak for what "most people" do while leveling, you're 100% off on me.
I own nearly every ship in the game, at all tiers. Why? Ships are the game for me. I love the various designs, both visual and in terms of mechanics. Yeah, there are some ships I simply don't use because I can't make them "sing". But that doesn't mean nobody can.
Oh, and I bought a good percentage of them for the early levels, and during the early levels.
So? Can I still do the missions? Great! Other than that, I DON'T CARE. However, this isn't about PvE and you know it. I post on the forums a little, but I read a lot. Tracing very nearly every volatile and rage-filled thread about T6 ships leads inevitably back to one of two things: speed runs or PvP.
Speed runs are some people's obsession. Fine. more power to them. But you can't build the entire game around it.
PvP is something where Cryptic has legitimate problems. They don't seem to have any idea how to balance not only the factions, but the careers and the ship types anymore. Throwing more power at the problem in the form of bigger shinier ships isn't a solution. Getting them to balance the game and not crying every time a change is made that nerfs YOUR build is.
Again, you're using "obsolete" in place of "nonoptimal", unless you're talking exclusively about speed-runs and PvP.
If you are, well...be part of the real solution (advocating for balance), rather than the problem (raging about having to pay for more shiny pure-DPS ships to overcome the lack of balance).
For starters, that's simply technically impossible. I am at max ships, and no way I own 'nearly every ship in the game, at all tiers.' Not even close.
Not only are you not qualified to tell ppl what words they can use, you're 100% off on me, as I don't care for speed runs, let alone PvP.
I *do* care about investments, though. Or, put differently, I don't throw away money frivolously, and only spend it on stuff I reasonably think will hold its value. And the larger the investment, the larger my concern when it's potentially in jeopardy.
Balance went out the airlock ages ago. The biggest wallet gets the biggest ship. Been that way since like for ever.
PvP and balance, of course, have nothing to do with the question whether our T5 ships will be obsoleted or not.
I'm not going to get in on any other part of your argument except this one.
MULTIPLE CHARACTERS / MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS ! :P
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
How the fck are we supposed to even cram these new powers into the already cluttered and overloaded hotbars?!
Not to mention that your ****ty game ui cannot even handle several activation at the same time?!
wtf bro?
This is the perfect time for Cryptic to rebalance all ships. I have no idea why 'old' balance is even a concern right now.
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The ****ty game UI did this on purpose, I think, so as not to allow you to ready your ueber-alpha strike within the span of just a single second. Kinda makes sense, too.
No it doesn't. Not including any such sort of super combos would have made sense. Not gimping the ui on purpose.
When the activation of a weapon cancels out the activation of a power, like a heal for example, or the activation of shield re-balancing ruins your power activation then that is not clever game design. Its moronic.
There is reason why people bind all their stuff to one key and then hammer that key mercilessly. That reason is: If you hammer the key every second you can be sure that your powers activate, gui lag or not.
Oh and one last thing: This is the champions online engine, which already had the same problem.
It's essentially an undocumented ½ second or so global cooldown.
I'm actually not so sure I *want* all my powers activated at the same time! The order of activation matters. Like I want to activate a TS3 only *after* I set APO3, for instance.
I do agree that the new Klingon concept is a nice looking ride. And that Warbird is just beautiful.
But I doubt that I give up my Fleet Qu'Daj or Tulwar anytime soon.
Yes it is.
nine console fleet ships are still useable at endgame without any problems. I used the free Assult cruiser for years without any problem at endgame.
In fact the first time they raised the level cap the new T5 ships they released then weren't any better either they just had some gimmick that wasn't even really necessary.
For some reason people seem to forget that they didn't scale up the difficulty of any of the endgame content when releasing C-store ships, lock box ships, and fleet ships.
Now apparently they are adding stuff that is more difficult thus requiring you to either buy the new T6 ships or use the upgrade system they are hinting at.
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
- have the right to claim because I bought them on the C-store
- have on one or more characters
Both definitions apply. And yes, I have a crapload of characters, so it's very possible.
Words mean things. Pick up a dictionary. Obsolete means literally useless, not just less than the best.
Then play the stock market. You're buying pixels here, pal. Pixels have no intrinsic value except in terms of fun.
Have you had fun with the ships you bought? Great! Value realized. Move on.
And? That somehow makes it right? Nope.
And yet all of the arguments eventually end up there, for lack of any other evidence to be presented.
Is it not enough that Fleet 5.5 ships in rep gear are taking 49k dmg from Planet Killers through max shields? That the bio cruisers BO is hitting for 29k a pop? Those legendary Borg invisible torpedoes?
I mean if it weren't for active DR abilities, it wouldn't matter what ship or gear you have, you're still being ohko.
So T5 and 5.5 are comparable to T6. Ok, I'll take that to mean, aside from the extra BoFF slots, extra console slots, extra weapon slots, and buffed stats, you're still going to be ohko by absurd damage from mobs with millions of HP.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Furthermore, looks like most people on the forums cannot read.... How many times have they said that the T5 ships will NOT be obsolete? so the ships that people bought are still gonna be fine. I think we are long over do for an increase.
Ship build coordinator for The Breakfast Club http://WWW.TBCSTO.COM
Doesn't Owe Anyone EC
Kirks Prot
No, your not. I laugh and snicker at all the doom and gloom stuff too. Everything we have now, will still be just as good as it is and will more than sufficient to play DR and deal with the new T6 ships until we all have a chance to decide if we like them enough to bother buying them.
Warp on!
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Agreed. I personally look forward to the new T6 raptor. It looks combat ready. :cool:
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Yes it will be more than enough to play the new content, but you are wrong if you thing everything we have now will be as good as the new "stuff".
And how many timed have they said what the upgrade will cost?! Exactly, never.
I never said that. I never said that what we have will be just as good as the new stuff.
I said it will be as good as it is now. Nothing is being de-stated or rendered useless. Which is the claim a lot of the doom and gloom tries to make.
They go on claiming that everything we have now will be obsoleted by T6 ships and Mk XIV gear,... I dispute that. Everything we have now will be just as good as it is now and will more than sufficient for lvl 60 content. Just as Mk X and/or Mk XI gear is now more than sufficient for lvl 50 content,... does Mk XII do it better? Of course, but you don't NEED it to play and play well.
We will not NEED Mk XIII or Mk XIV gear to play the new expansion either. Mk X/XI/XII will be more than sufficient, until we see exactly what is being released, compare it's usefulness to what we have now, decide if we like it or not, and then make the decision to either buy or not,..
Nothing will really change except, more options on things to buy.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
"New" powers doesn't mean BETTER powers. Just means DIFFERENT powers.
As far as I'm concerned, if my Wells ship and it's Temporal Set can be upgraded then I'll be happy without the need to buy a new ship. Just how many ships in STO can actually use Time itself as a power?
Oh come now, given the track record, do you really think that PWE/Cryptic is going to get it right and the tier 6 ships are not going to be completely better than anything that came before?
Sorry you are giving PWE way too much credit. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am. And remember, they said you'd be able to upgrade your ships to comparable to the tier 6 ships, but not as strong.
And usually when PWE puts out something new, it's usually better. Has been since I started playing the game. To say otherwise, that's being naive.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Talonxv, the least we can do is wait and see the actual stats first. Yes, I agree with you that the T6 will have to better to the point that it'll prompt people to get the new ships. How much? Who knows? It depends on how they are going to scale enemies at that level too. Maybe it'll turn out to be negligible. Once more information for Delta Rising hits, we can do what we do best: Adapt. At this point, we're wasting words to just pass the time.
(UFP) Ragnar
I stand by my opinion that the ships will look different, but won't be superior to an upgraded ship.
Everyone was thinking about how awesomesauce the Dyson Destroyers were going to be. Well, I don't see too many of them out there after all this time since Step Between Stars was released. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Cryptic still hasn't gotten around to providing any Secondary Deflectors (who wants to fly around in a ship where it has a "decaying" deflector?).
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Then you're going to be quite niave. I mean what's the draw to those ships if they are NOT superior?
It's a waste if they are not. Sorry can't have it both ways and the DSD is not a good analogy. I mean they were supposed to be good for science oriented characters and they are. They are still good ships but they were balanced around 1 thing. They were in the end still tier 5 ships.
I don't think they are going to be OP uber awesomesauce ships. I do think however they will be a cut above tier 5, even after refits to almost hit their level.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
You dont need to dispute anything. Its a fact. MK X-XII gear and ships below T6 will be obsolete against the new stuff. Thats a fact like a temple. Specially weapons and equipment. Upgraded ships will still be really effective, but soon you will see the game plagued with genuine tier 6 ships. Because it doesnt matter if you upgraded your ship, the logic suggest that tier 6 ships will be just BETTER, that simple. When you have a tier 1 ship, you wanted a tier 2. When you had a tier 2, you wanted a tier 3 ship... you see the pattern here?