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Expansion 2: Delta Rising

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  • adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sqwished wrote: »
    I'll be one of the first people to say things need to change, but i think whats got a lot of peoples backs up is that everything they've spent the last 4-5 years working for will be rendered all but obsolete when this goes live.

    You know this how? you played Delta Rising? please enlighten us with your evidence based source of information....
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    These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
  • jakal122481jakal122481 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    Has any other F2P MMO done a level cap increase?

    I mean I know the sub model relies upon the level cap increase for sustainability but has any f2p done it before?

    yea rift has
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    It would be good to keep the ship discussion in this thread:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1185131

    And make this a general Expansion 2 thread.

    Maybe if ashkrik23 agrees - he could update the OP

    That way T6 class ship comments don't get buried in all the other stuff.

    I'll update the main post.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
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  • sethpcsethpc Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    adverbero wrote: »
    You know this how? you played Delta Rising? please enlighten us with your evidence based source of information....

    It's funny 'cause multiple developers have LITERALLY said this will not be the case. I even damn-near quoted the lead designer saying this. some people just don't read the damn threads.
  • daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    jengoz wrote: »
    Nope. C-store only.

    Even better...

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Like a gift from above, we don't even get to unlock a single T6 in game. We used to get a retrofit at VA. Couldn't they do something similar for level 60?
    My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Unfortunately right now AtB is pretty much THE cruiser build. If it's toned down maybe they can actually take a look at buffing cruisers so multiple builds are good.

    Granted that will take them at least 2 years.

    that is non reasoning. and nothing else can be buffed in a vacuum, AtB is practically surgical, in the way it selectively buffs only certain things, and certain ships. its the perfect solution to formerly underpowered things.

    all beam arrays is THE cruiser build

    FAW is THE cruiser build

    cannons and CRF are THE escort build.

    only AtB is the bad when its the default choice somewere.


    85% of cruisers would be terrible without it as anything but heal boats. a few will be fine atdealing damage, like those non AtB max DEEP boats are, but their survivability will be TERRIBLE, only not too much of a problem in most face role easy PVE.

    ship balance in pvp, the only place balance maters, right now is the best its ever been. nerf AtB, and you flush the foundation of that balance down the toilet. its probably the best way to TRIBBLE off the most players all at once too, its the answer to the question, 'whats the stupidest thing the dev can do?'
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    adverbero wrote: »
    -Please make sure that information is disseminated properly, half of all the forum rage is generated by some ignorant poster spreading false truths

    ...and exacerbated by Official Persons™ posting contentless "Don't worry, we got this...trust us" assurances like those that have preceded earlier painful experiences. :cool:
  • sethpcsethpc Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    I'll update the main post.

    Unless I'm quoting someone or it's fairly obvious I'm just making a comment, pretty much all my posts in this thread have been paraphrasing dev responses from the trekradio Q&A. You can update the OP, if you feel like it.
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sethpc wrote: »
    Unless I'm quoting someone or it's fairly obvious I'm just making a comment, pretty much all my posts in this thread have been paraphrasing dev responses from the trekradio Q&A. You can update the OP, if you feel like it.

    ?

    I was just updating main post so it was easier to have a thread for T6 ship discussions.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
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  • chiefbrexchiefbrex Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Not happy about this Expansion at all. For starters, we're starting the Delta Quadrant, when we still don't have full access to the Alpha, Beta, and Gamma Quadrants yet. There's whole sections of the Alpha and Beta quadrants that are still inaccessible. On top of that, it's annoying as all f*** to have to load every single sector block. Why is it so difficult for Craptic to create a galactic map that's continuous? On top of that, the Romulans and the Klingons need more sector blocks for their own space, as they share MOST of them with the Federation faction.

    And this whole T6 thing....not happy at all about that either. I worked my butt off to get the ships that I have on my lvl 50s. And some of them aren't even fleet versions, because there aren't any fleet versions for some of them! I don't want my alts all flying the same ships. And this idea of making T5 ships competitive? How about using Suricata's idea of introducing computer core consoles that allow players to upgrade any ship they like to match their current level/rank, as opposed to getting a new ship each time? I don't care if CBS said "No" to T5 Mirandas, Connies, Oberths, and Centaurs. They're not the ones paying and playing Star Trek Online. It's not their decision to make. If the players want them, they should get them. Plain and simple.

    And before adding "new" Craptastic ships into the mix, how about fixing ALL THE CANON SHIPS IN THE GAME, because you guys at Craptic clearly don't have eyes for details (like the fact that the Galaxy-X Dreadnought's Phaser Lancer is offcenter, not to mention that the ventral saucer register is covered up by the phaser lancer on the saucer, because, you know, you nitwits at Craptic forgot/refused to make a new texture map that adjusted the ventral saucer registry so that it isn't covered up by the phaser lancer). Not to mention the fact that the Nebula class has the wrong secondary hull design. There's issues with the Defiant, Intrepid, Nova, Cheyenne, Excelsior, Galaxy, Sovereign, Luna, Oberth, Miranda, Centaur, Akira, Steamrunner, Prometheus, TOS Connie, TMP Connie, K'Tinga, B'Rel, Vor'Cha, Negh'Var, D'Deridex, "Mogai", "T'Varo", and TOS Romulan Bird of Prey designs, that need addressing. And PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! If you're going to insist on creating new starship designs, PLEASE HIRE ANDREW PROBERT, RICK STERNBACH, AND THE REST OF THE STAR TREK ART DEPARTMENT TO DO IT FOR YOU! Because you Cryptic guys SUCK at starship design. Always have.

    Further, if you're going to be adding new interiors, SCALE THEM PROPERLY! I am so sick and tired of cathedral sized interiors, that it's just laughable. And try creating canon, or releasing design options for interiors, so that people can CHOOSE the style of the interior: Be it Craptic-style, TNG-style, or Intrepid-style. In fact, why not just create bridges specific to canon designs, and create Crew Decks, Engineering decks, and such, that can either be used as generic, or, if we've SEEN a specific design style (like Defiant, TNG era, Voyager), then make those interiors available by default for those types of ships (IE - Galaxy, Nebula, Cheyenne, Ambassador all get TNG-style interiors. Defiants get the Belfast set, and all ships from Voyager/First Contact, on, get Intrepid-style interiors). With, maybe, a color scheme option, in case we want to change it up a bit from the Gunmetal Grey.

    And, the NPC crews wandering around the interiors, it would be nice if their uniforms matched that of the player and the BOffs. And I know you can make it happen - the change to all NPCs wearing the Odyssey uniform proved that. Just give the players the option to decide.

    I mean, really, is it so hard to give players what they want? I mean, we ARE spending money. Without US, CRAPTIC has no cash cow. Just Sayin....

    Ultimately, I'm going to wait and see what happens. But I srsly think that Craptic needs to stop focusing so much on new content, and fix the mess they have now. in fact, split the development team so that half of them are working on new content, and the other half are fixing each other's messes. Otherwise, Delta Rising is the Death Knoll for Star Trek Online (which may or may not be a good thing).
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Seriously Al? REALLY? Mk14 Gear is going to fix the power creep?

    /facedesks multiple times

    Um...why are we expecting power creep fixes from those whose livelihood is more or less based on the perpetual need to keep upgrading ships/weapons/abilities/ect.?

    Want a static game, don't play this one.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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  • isvarnaisvarna Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sle1989 wrote: »
    This, the biggest thing will be the existing ships and how they will be upgraded. We should be told about this very soon. We should know what ships will be upgraded and how much it will cost to upgrade them.

    You do realize there's a non-zero, hell near certainty, chance that those particular details haven't even been finalized. We did hear in the announcement that the expansion was slated for October, that's 2 months or more away. Are your expectations of Cryptic so low that you believe they'd make this announcement with everything in the can and ready to go and then sit on their thumbs for that entire time? Or would you prefer they instead go through all the trouble to set up a convention panel and say nothing about the expansion but the release date and leave us to stew until they were ready to blindside us with a firehose of information the week before launch?

    That being said the amount of DOOM in this thread is actually less than I anticipated given the nature of announcements. That makes me happy.
    ↓ ↓ This is why we can't have nice things. ↓ ↓
  • druhindruhin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    that is non reasoning. and nothing else can be buffed in a vacuum, AtB is practically surgical, in the way it selectively buffs only certain things, and certain ships. its the perfect solution to formerly underpowered things.

    all beam arrays is THE cruiser build

    FAW is THE cruiser build

    cannons and CRF are THE escort build.

    only AtB is the bad when its the default choice somewere.


    85% of cruisers would be terrible without it as anything but heal boats. a few will be fine atdealing damage, like those non AtB max DEEP boats are, but their survivability will be TERRIBLE, only not too much of a problem in most face role easy PVE.

    ship balance in pvp, the only place balance maters, right now is the best its ever been. nerf AtB, and you flush the foundation of that balance down the toilet. its probably the best way to TRIBBLE off the most players all at once too, its the answer to the question, 'whats the stupidest thing the dev can do?'

    "85% of cruisers would be terrible without it..."

    Same argument used when they changed the Emergency Power to X abilities. Guess what? People adapted.

    "ship balance in pvp, the only place balance maters"

    Matters to who? PVPers. Balance in PVP is an oxymoron. PVP is never balanced, as someone will always have the upper hand at one point or another. 1vs1 depends entirely on the class facing another class, or the ships specs, or gear used. In any case, with a level cap increase, any balance (or lack thereof) will be null and void, since there will be a new cap to contend with, new ships to fight, new gear to grind etc.
  • venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    Has any other F2P MMO done a level cap increase?

    I mean I know the sub model relies upon the level cap increase for sustainability but has any f2p done it before?
    "Star Wars: The Old Republic" did about a year ago.
    Hey everyone,

    Those of you concerned with older ships becoming "obsolete". I would recommend holding off the pitchforks and torches and listen to the Q and A that will be happening soon.

    We are going to take care of you guys.
    I am going to be bold and say, "I do not trust you."
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Where have you been the past 2 years? :confused:
    Slapping more DPS onto it is their solution for everything.........except the Galaxy Class....

    I've been saying the exact same thing for the past 2 years. I was hoping they would get the hint. Apparently they didn't.

    Gotta reach for the low-hanging DPS fruit instead of putting some creativity and innovation into support ships.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • kirimuffinkirimuffin Member Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sethpc wrote: »
    It's funny 'cause multiple developers have LITERALLY said this will not be the case. I even damn-near quoted the lead designer saying this. some people just don't read the damn threads.

    If they're introducing a Mk XIV that is better than Mk XII -- which it should be, or else why call it Mk XIV? -- that obviously means that Mk XII will be obsolete.

    If they're introducing a T6 that is better than T5 -- which it should be, or else why call it T6? -- that obviously means that T5 will be obsolete.

    This is what tier and mark numbers have always meant in STO: higher is better. Thus, when they advertise higher-number stuff, they are necessarily advertising better stuff. That's what it means. If they didn't want to give us that impression, they should never have used the terms "Mk XIV" or "T6".

    At best, there is some seriously muddled messaging going on here. Cryptic is saying that we're gonna get a bunch of new stuff that's better than anything we have now, and -- at the same time -- that literally none of our old stuff will be obsolete? These can't both be true!
  • rezkingrezking Member Posts: 1,109 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    talaxians And Ocampans Will Be Allies, Unsure If They Will Be Playable Right Now.

    Oh My Allah no
    NO to ARC
    RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Um...why are we expecting power creep fixes from those whose livelihood is more or less based on the perpetual need to keep upgrading ships/weapons/abilities/ect.?

    Want a static game, don't play this one.

    Still trolling me, huh.

    Nobody is talking about wanting a static game, just not wanting people trivializing content by these people by having to up the ante to the point new and average players have to deal with it.
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited August 2014
    adverbero wrote: »
    You know this how? you played Delta Rising? please enlighten us with your evidence based source of information....

    Well lets look at things so far,
    1/ Current T5 ships may be upgradable to a certain extent. But they wont be a direct comparison to the propose T6 ships. Despite space frames being upgraded in the Star trek universe I.E the Excelsior class cruisers. The original was launched back in Kirks time and is still around in various forms in game today.
    2/ Running through space STF's in under two minutes is a joke. So this needed to change and just increasing the NPC's hit points like they've done before is a waste of time.
    3/ Recent runs through Ground STF's being done in record times, I can quote numerous examples the first being a IGE run being done with out time bugging anything and the team manged it with over 9 mins left on the optional timer. A KAGE done with two players complete with optional, also CGE done with three. Need I go on? These are but a few of the many problems that need to be addressed.

    Oh and not forgetting the more recent two man completion of No win, the hardest PvE content this game has to offer. Things can not carry on like this before players go off in search of something more challenging.

    Not to mention those that feel that they've once again been or will be short changed by cryptics promises to look after the player base. The change over to the rep system being a prime example. Granted from my perspective it was a god send after spending over year trying to obtain my Mk XII ground sets with little in the way of rewards to show for it. Sure I got plenty of items that weren't any use to me. But others had a ton of items and got short changed when they converted it.
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Im actually annoyed they chose to spread out to the Delta Quadrant before finishing the already established Sectors of Federation Space, and the Alpha and Beta Quadrant Sectors that havent been added in.
  • blassreiterusblassreiterus Member Posts: 1,294 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Im actually annoyed they chose to spread out to the Delta Quadrant before finishing the already established Sectors of Federation Space, and the Alpha and Beta Quadrant Sectors that havent been added in.
    You do realize that they're doing it because the story is Delta Quadrant focused at the moment, with the missions that have been made available up to now, like Sphere of Influence, Step Between Stars and Surface Tension... They will get to the rest of the Alpha, Beta and Gamma Quadrants in time... have some patience.
    Star Trek Online LTS player.
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You do realize that they're doing it because the story is Delta Quadrant focused at the moment, with the missions that have been made available up to now, like Sphere of Influence, Step Between Stars and Surface Tension... They will get to the rest of the Alpha, Beta and Gamma Quadrants in time... have some patience.

    Isn't that what they keep telling the 15 PvP players, "have some patience?" :rolleyes:
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    critics will be rigor when the new expansion will be available at the moment, i wait to see, but if there will be exploration, I am already happy. btw i don't care about T6 ships, for me this is not important for the gameplay; ships are tools not the complete fundations of the game.

    STAR TREK is more than only ships. i wish good luck to the devs, and i hope that the game will be more enjoyable
  • venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hey everyone,

    Those of you concerned with older ships becoming "obsolete". I would recommend holding off the pitchforks and torches and listen to the Q and A that will be happening soon.

    We are going to take care of you guys.
    How much do you want to bet that some type of dilithium and/or ec sink will be involved?

    I am going to take this as a confirmation that the T5 and T5.5 ships are now obsolete.

    I really do not trust this company.
  • daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    chiefbrex wrote: »
    Not happy about this Expansion at all. Ditto.

    we're starting the Delta Quadrant, when we still don't have full access to the Alpha, Beta, and Gamma Quadrants yet. There's whole sections of the Alpha and Beta quadrants that are still inaccessible. I'm working on blogs about exploration, and I mentioned the Gamma Quadrant first. So yeah, I agree with this one.

    And this whole T6 thing....not happy at all about that either. I worked my butt off to get the ships that I have on my lvl 50s. And some of them aren't even fleet versions, because there aren't any fleet versions for some of them! You forgot to mention how really not many people actually have a T5 fleet, let alone a T5 hangar bay. So even if they did all have fleet versions, the majority of us would be SOL regardless.

    And before adding "new" Craptastic ships into the mix, how about fixing ALL THE CANON SHIPS IN THE GAME Sure they could....but they'd charge you for the new versions. I've pointed this out before in this post, but look at the Galaxy upgrade. There's no way to trade in the old one and you have to buy the new shiny one. Do you really want them to TRIBBLE us like that with EVERY old ship?

    Gunmetal Grey. This takes me back to the army. We had Navy guys on base and we painted their anchor pink with a neon purple stripe in it. Took all night to get it as obnoxious as possible. When they found out, my buddies and I did extra duty -- repainting it Gunmetal Grey. Good times.

    I mean, really, is it so hard to give players what they want? Yes it it. Because they don't care what we think. Only what some people are willing to purchase. Hell, they have yet to go on the record asking what we would actually be willing to spend money on if they were to offer it. They'd rather just shoot in the dark and focus on Voyager exclusive content...

    Otherwise, Delta Rising is the Death Knoll for Star Trek Online (which may or may not be a good thing). Probably not true. But it will be another big step n that direction. The Dyson thing was a BAD idea. Beautifully designed environments with an insanely flawed and grindy premise. I'm betting the expansion will be similar.

    Read above. /10 chars
    My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    haha we're so hosed, i'm just curious if my lockbox ships will actually be worth a damn post-expansion 2
  • adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sqwished wrote: »
    Well lets look at things so far,
    1/ Current T5 ships may be upgradable to a certain extent. But they wont be a direct comparison to the propose T6 ships. Despite space frames being upgraded in the Star trek universe I.E the Excelsior class cruisers. The original was launched back in Kirks time and is still around in various forms in game today.

    The fact remains that Until you actually know what the stats are on a T6 vessel, You have no basis for an actual evidence based argument, its conjecture

    The nature of the ships may be different to the assumptions of the player base, given our limited information it would be illogical to make judgements at this stage
    solar_approach_by_chaos_sandwhich-d74kjft.png


    These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
  • daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    STAR TREK is more than only ships.

    STO is because ships and ship bundles are the most expensive things they can get away with selling. So as far as the devs see it...you're actually wrong.:(
    My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
  • chiefbrexchiefbrex Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You do realize that they're doing it because the story is Delta Quadrant focused at the moment, with the missions that have been made available up to now, like Sphere of Influence, Step Between Stars and Surface Tension... They will get to the rest of the Alpha, Beta and Gamma Quadrants in time... have some patience.

    They should've focused on the Alpha, Beta, and Gamma quadrants first. They chose not to. Instead, they chose to go directly to the Delta Quadrant, because they thought it would improve the game. It didn't it. Cryptic made a BAD call on this one.
  • captsolcaptsol Member Posts: 921 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Im actually annoyed they chose to spread out to the Delta Quadrant before finishing the already established Sectors of Federation Space, and the Alpha and Beta Quadrant Sectors that havent been added in.

    I have a feeling we'll see Delta and Gamma before we see fully fleshed out Alpha and Beta just because they can milk more out of them.
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