Interesting debate given by both sides for and against romulan independence. While I quite enjoy playing a romulan character. I honestly doubt we will see a seperate faction become a reality. ***Caveat*** If a 4th playable faction is introduced like say ohh I dunno the Cardassians as an example. then cryptic could have a balanced and golden oppertunity to have a 4 way faction set up. Something like feds vs kdf , an rom vs. new guy faction. But given that the sub faction the romulans really are. Let's face it any new faction brought in to be playable... is going to go down the same road romulans have.
Would I love to see romulans have there own fleets not tied to fed / kdf ? Sure I would. Would I love to see Rommies have a faction exclusive Elite fleet plasma weapon set ? Maybe... but for me when I think of "elite fleet plasma " I just look at the new romulas Rep and rom plasma. To me that is our elite fleet plasma, just stinks that all factions can have access to it. But it is what it is people. I've had no complaints flying around in my warbirds. I like the enjoyment of flying them. So I don't mind shelling out whenever we get a new warbird. Except for the Scimitars as they take all the fun out of things making content extremely trivial.
I understand that many people would like to rescue Romulos, but to be honest, I never was a friend of all that back and forward-jumping which is so often used in Star Trek. For my taste it happens a bit too often and the consequences are too different.
I would rather be for creating the present and the future than changing the past - but true independence would be I think I could fully support. Mainly if that mean that the Republic becomes less the good guys they are more or less now, setting a focus on rallying ALL Romulan people - with a Senate made out of members of the old families, but also off new men and women who earn honour by fighting not only for the Republic, but also members of the Imperial Administration, the Navy and even the Tal Shiar which had done well in defending their small part of the former Empire when the Empire collapsed. Remans and perhaps in the future even other rare members of other species may be also integrated, in the last case perhaps not as full members...
A complicated neutrality towards the Klingons and the Federation (perhaps a cooperation in some limited areas) with a (or more than one) neutral zone, and a set of allied smaller nations, who were convinced, tricked or even forced to accept the Senate and People of Romulos as their superiors. The Republic as a force which is strong enough that the Federation or Klingons could not easily defeat them because they must fear that than the Romulans would ally with the rival faction. The Republic would be not a major player, but more or less independent - and should have own assignments etc.
No one is playing KDF anymore, so lets just let KDF become Romulan Star Empire. We will take in the handful of Klingons and Nausicans lost out in the galaxy.
Oh gods no... can you imagine the SMELL?! Itd seep into the bulkheads and youd never get it out!
As much as I enjoy the idea of Romulans being on their own. I say no way in a big way. I have 3 Romulan characters and they are all allied Fed. That being said my Romulan has access to a T4 Starbase, T2 Spire, T3 Dilithium Mine and T3 Embassy. No way on earth would I give that up with my 3 toons just to be independent.
No disrespect to the OP on this but it is a bad idea please don't beg for it.
That is you, I'd happily leave the fleets my Roms are in to build a pure Rom one up from the ground up and those fleets are both nearly maxxed out on all projects.
We'll never see the end of the Romklink/Romfeddiebear "alignment' option I don't think, as Cryptic still believe that he game can only work as (in their own words, paraphrased) "Red vs Blue only, Green don't fit".
However I'll echo the postee above ... I would happily start all over again with a new Fleet, if it meant I could create a Romulan/Reman one. Yes, I've pent considerable resources on 3 different Fleets to help build them up, both Fed and KDF side, but that's juts part of the game ... What eslse are you going to do with all the resources anyway?
I just want to be recognized as a Romulan. * I don't want "For the Empire!" on my screen when I do a Tholian RA or a Borg RA) I want a few, just a few, Fleet Uniforms. I want just the basic amenities that Klinks and Feds take for granted, like security officers, DoFF grinders, and BoFF recruitment. I want Romulan Ship Bridges.
I WANT TEAL AND PURPLE COLOR PALLETS OPTIONS!
I want my own Romulan Fleet Starbase!
Gawd, the assets are already in game for Spocks sake! We run around in Romulan Starbases, we run around in Romulan building. We run around in Romulan cities, we run around in Romulan ships! ... Arrgghhhh ...
As much as I enjoy the idea of Romulans being on their own. I say no way in a big way. I have 3 Romulan characters and they are all allied Fed. That being said my Romulan has access to a T4 Starbase, T2 Spire, T3 Dilithium Mine and T3 Embassy. No way on earth would I give that up with my 3 toons just to be independent.
No disrespect to the OP on this but it is a bad idea please don't beg for it.
I don't see why independence would necessitate dismantling the alliance system. A sovereign polity may have alliances with other sovereign polities.
I say give us the three factions, and let fleet leaders decide which faction their fleet is in; if they choose Romulan, then give them the option of Fed-allied, Klingon-allied, or stand-alone. I have a level 9 fleet. It is allied with the Klingon Empire, but it is a fleet of the New Romulan Republic. I see no reason to give that up and start over building that again, and will vehemently oppose the idea. But that doesn't mean that we can't have an independent faction.
I don't see why independence would necessitate dismantling the alliance system. A sovereign polity may have alliances with other sovereign polities.
I say give us the three factions, and let fleet leaders decide which faction their fleet is in; if they choose Romulan, then give them the option of Fed-allied, Klingon-allied, or stand-alone. I have a level 9 fleet. It is allied with the Klingon Empire, but it is a fleet of the New Romulan Republic. I see no reason to give that up and start over building that again, and will vehemently oppose the idea. But that doesn't mean that we can't have an independent faction.
I think the problem is that the alliance system works one-way in terms of benefits. If/When the Republic has enough assets to be considered a full faction, we'll have access to Boffs, Doffs, ships, consoles etc of our allies, who get nothing in return, which would deepen the sense of Republic characters as 'Premium' KDF, Federation characters. If we are going to be a full faction IMO, we need to either drop our KDF/Federation benefits, or give FED/KDF characters some way of allying with either the Republic, or the Federation/KDF (whichever is applicable)
We should definitely have some way of converting existing KDF/Republic fleets into Republic fleets though.
It's no gonna happend, specially the Refugee/Endangered Species setting cryptic made for the Romies.
Again, it was said that there would never be a romulan faction. Now there is. Continued interest promotes interest in making and growing the things we desire.
The recommendation of a third path for RR captains means we stick to the no villians creed, and allows the least amount of work to be put in to encourage the fans for this faction.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Again, it was said that there would never be a romulan faction. Now there is. Continued interest promotes interest in making and growing the things we desire.
It was never said there never shall be a romulan faction. Playable romulans were talked about since the release of the game.
__________________
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
Again, it was said that there would never be a romulan faction. Now there is. Continued interest promotes interest in making and growing the things we desire.
The recommendation of a third path for RR captains means we stick to the no villians creed, and allows the least amount of work to be put in to encourage the fans for this faction.
So in other words, a "no villains" clause means to make an "independent" Romulan faction Federation v2.0.
Which is exactly what D'Tan's Romulan Republic is now.
I think this could be seen different. Even Star-Empire-Romulans I think would not do much worse things than Klingons do on a regular basis. There are Raids (A LOT of raids/ bombings, blockades etc.), the torture of prisoners, you could sell them to the orions, manage assassinations, sabotage etc. So a behavior which is perhaps a little bit less open aggressive than the Klingons do so often and a little bit more sneaky and cunning would make Roms not more villains than the Klingons are - but much more ROMULAN than this white-washed Federation-clons they seem to be now.
For a truly Romulan faction I gues diplomacy, espionage and political intrigues would be stronger and more frequent than for Klingons, and there may be do more fighting-jobs than for the Feds (but perhaps less than for the Klingons). You could made them a good mix, I would say, and they would neither be giggeling maniacs nor epohh-tagging softies...
Yeah, no villains, because contrary to the warped view of Romulans which dominated their portrayal from TNG to ENT, Romulans are not a villain race ab origine!!!
D'Tan is not less Romulan than you because he does not choose to blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. That choice also does not say anything about the size of his membrum virilie, so please stop waving yours around as if it's the Teral'n. D'Tan was elected Proconsul. You were not. And we're all much better off as a result.
Funny...I don't remember an election. But then he was appointed wasn't he? Not elected by the public, and certainly not by the players.
A consistent portrayal across three series doesn't come across as 'warped' to me. It takes some severe tunnel vision to write off all of that as an aberration IMO.
Anyways, that same 'warped' portrayal dominated STO until Cryptic decided to retcon everything into a simplistic dualistic 'black hat, white hat' affair with the Republic being based off the Bajoran Resistance....not necessarily because their portrayal was some sort of gaping plot hole that needed filling (indeed, it opened more than it closed), but for purely monetary reasons....Rihhansu novels were just a convenient excuse at hand to apply said retcon...make no mistake about it.
Yeah, those elections did not happen. D'tan was teh "leader" of le "resistance" which allowed him to get power of teh "proconsul".
If there were elections, who did vote? Noble houses would not dirt themselves into reunificationist.
__________________
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
A consistent portrayal across three series doesn't come across as 'warped' to me. It takes some severe tunnel vision to write off all of that as an aberration IMO.
It's proto.... if it aint ToS and/or the novels she likes it aint right to her... to hell with anything/anyone else
protogoth: Well, that is your problem (and in my eyes also an mistake) that you see Romulans who act in a let us say traditional way (which mean Star Empire like) as villains. I disagree - and of course the Romulans themselves in-play will never say "we were villains in that days, thank gods that D'Tan has cured us". And his power base is a joke, if you are honest. He was - if ever - chosen by a small group of Romulans. I never heard that there were re-election when the Republic grows and included more and more people. And of course the opinion of the greatest part of the Romulans were never heard. So even if he was elected in the start, he was elected only by hard core insurgents and their followers, which by no chance could stand for the Romulans as nation. That would be as if a vote between the TS and the families of its members would be enough to find the elected leader for all Romulans.
Perhaps it would be time - in play - to think about a proconsul (or how you want to call it) which agenda is not one of kneeing before a "teacher" who has Romulan blood on his hand (Spock was indeed involved in hostile acts against the Empire during his service under Kirk). A proconsul which represented not one fraction of a bitter inter-Romulan conflict, but one who stands for tradition AND new beginning. A description which of course D'Tan never could match... At least I guess some Romulans (and more and more?) will think so. A Praetor, Consul, whatsoever chosen (or found/ proclaimed) not only by re-unificationists and people who believe in "values" which have in several cases not much in common with Romulan tradition. But from a new senate, build out of members of the Noble Houses and perhaps also "new" men and women from families which were raised to nobility for their actions since the destruction of Romulos (and that means also members of the TS and the Fleet and the Imperial Administration which take care for planets or fleets etc. during these chaotic years). I guess many Romulan Players would have no problem with such a development. To hell with it, you could even include the players in starting a contest who presents the best candidate/ political fraction etc, which wins the most votes from others. I guess many players would love it to have their ideas heard (or have at least to chance for that).
I am a pure believer in the republic and I understand cryptics ideas, BUT: I think romulan gameplay should be more independent. Throughout the campaign I hear the republic is allied with both the federation and the empire, but we continue to fight the opposing faction to our respective ally's. I would prefer if romulan gameplay was more separate as in: Romulan Fleet Starbases, Romulan only fleets, a neutral zone I would call the Romulan Front, separating the Republic from the Tal'Shiar and Remans (Not Obisek's Gang). All of this would be nicer for gameplay because after cutting the cord Obisek joined, many Tal'Shiar switched sides. And in addition: like M.A.C.O and The Honor Guard, there should be the Preatoren Guard or Tal'preiax (that NOT how you spell it I know). The preatoran guard would have their own unique costume design and their own sets and weaponry. This is a great suggestion for better gameplay for the romulan faction rather than cryptic bulls**t
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
lessley00: I think a lot of people would have less problems with the Romulan Republic if it would be a ROMULAN Republic, not a Romulan REPUBLIC, so to speak. A Republic which includes more aspects of the "traditional" Romulans we know and love . In the present way they indeed are far too much "white hats" against the "black hats" of the TS, as catoblepasbeta mentioned. A truely independent Republic which have a strong expansive agenda and did not look at the first glance like Federation with Pointed Ears so to speak would be in my eyes a step in the right direction...
Here I am not so good informed. Did the Remans still speak proudly from themselves as some of those who walk beneath the wings of the raptor, or have they created own decriptions and myths?
the reason the RSE is in such a sad state is, if you've forgotten, is that most if not all the noble houses were on romulus....along with the administrative apparatus and buracracy needed to run an empire....
lessley00: I think a lot of people would have less problems with the Romulan Republic if it would be a ROMULAN Republic, not a Romulan REPUBLIC, so to speak. A Republic which includes more aspects of the "traditional" Romulans we know and love . In the present way they indeed are far too much "white hats" against the "black hats" of the TS, as catoblepasbeta mentioned. A truely independent Republic which have a strong expansive agenda and did not look at the first glance like Federation with Pointed Ears so to speak would be in my eyes a step in the right direction...
Responding to a couple posts so bear with me as I ramble.
Romulans/RSE and villainy, From the point of view of the Klingons or the federation. Sure were. Now how can It be reconciled? USA citizenry generally don't consider themselves or their government as evil (Broad brushes! Put the pitchforks away!) As I was saying, but the actions of the CIA during the cold war, the FBI under Hoover, or the McCarthy trials all look similar to what was known of the RSE. Looking from the outside. Actions of soldiers in Vietnam, some were horrendous. But as a whole and through the entirety of our history we do not see ourselves as evil. So yes I can see the RSE as a 'white hat'.
That being said the RSE is dead. It died when Romulus and the nobles did. Sela in all her incarnations does not even strike me as a decent administrator let alone leader and I believe we can all agree Hakeev was a madman. This is what took up the mantle of the RSE. With Hakeev calling the shots the more unhinged of the tal shiar moved up in the ranks while the more stable that sought to balance the empire and bring it back to glory were kept at arms length and used as bait to attempt to trap enemies.
Personally if Hakeev had been smarter he would have seen to it we did find evidence of D'tan's evils on Virinat. Of how perhaps we did not know but D'tan had hidden caches of weapons there and was using the civilian populace as a shield. He could have smeared D'tan's name. Converted the PC and supporters and unified forces under his control. Instead it was bumbling efforts to do nothing for false information other than send two groups down and let them assume the other was up to no good. So much for scheming.
As for the Romulans being expansionistic. With what? Again Hakeev (please insert appropriate swearing) us over. Give us an established breadbasket like Virinat, shipyards like Gasko station, and trade partners like the Suliban and you have the makings of an infrastructure to expand readily to new systems and make them yours. Hakeev may as well have blown us back to the age of sail for we have to finish colonizing a homeworld before we can afford to properly expand to new systems.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I too would like to see the Romulan empire/republic stand on it's own. However, I think this may happen down the road, several years from now, when Cryptic has filled out with more factions.
Two major factions that still need to be added to the game would be Cardassians and the Dominion. More could be added later, but these are the 5 major powers seen throughout the Star Trek TV series, that are, or have a presence in the Alpha quadrant. Personally, I am hoping that Delta rising sees the introduction of the Cardassians faction to STO, as a mini faction, similar to the Romulans.
Per assumption, but it took 1 1/2 years to being out the new faction coming in Delta rising. Thus, if a 5th faction was made, it would be mid 2016 before release. I think that would be the perfect time to then go back, and upgrade the 3 mini factions into full factions. This would be done, by moving the timeline forward, creating new missions, and overhauling the game from the current blue-vs-red to independent faction ideals and goals. At minimum, this would probably take another 1 1/2 years, so I wouldn't plan on a full Romulan faction until at least 2018...although I hope it's sooner.
From STO lore:
"An explanation appears in the backstory of Star Trek Online, which states that the shockwave propagated through subspace at faster-than-light speeds. Also in the game's backstory, a scandal occurred several years later involving rumors that the Vulcan Science Academy knew about the instability of the star but did nothing until Spock attempted to save Romulus with the Jellyfish. The scandal resulted in several resignations and sowed seeds of distrust towards the Vulcans.
It is also confirmed by the Featured Episode series "Cloaked Intentions" that Remus was also destroyed, however the Romulans and Remans still continue their prejudices towards each other. It is also revealed that the supernova was not a natural occurrence, but was engineered by then-Praetor Taris, who did so under orders from the Iconians."
This suggests that the leader would not become an unificationist ( D'Tan) or even servant Iconians ( Hakeev ) .
It is obvious that STO making the same mistakes as the series ST. It would take one head writer of the story.
Too bad that destroyed Donatra here , she would be the perfect candidate , in my opinion , Sela or , if they did not add her to the Tal Shiar ( btw how could add to the Tal Shiar , she was one of the leading members of the military , and we know that these two companies are not in love) .
feiqa: I do not believe that the nobles per se were destroyed when Romulos was. At first I think there was a kind of cursus honorium many members of the nobility go through - which means, members of many of the great families might even not be on Romulos when it was destroyed, but served on board of warships, or in the colonies. And I guess if anyone had a chance to escape the event, than nobles who had much more access to transporters and ships. And there might even be "branches" of the noble families in the colonies over the centuries, minor members who had found a new home there, married there etc. So I think while many of the old families are surely decimated, I do not think they all were extinct, or even most of them. If there would be a honest try to build a new senate of members of the old families (and perhaps some new ones) I guess that would be possible and much more inclusive than D'Tans style of leadership which left the greates part of the Romulan society outiside (at least until now). He has no real legitimation (you could argue that someone like Sela had much more right to rule than he...).
And I think it would be pity if the Romulan Republic would not include the worlds who are not founded by the insurgents (like New Romulos) or joined there movement in the early days of the Republican "uprising". There are many worlds left under the control of TS and Imperial people, I guess. Bringing them together could very well form the start of a new Empire. Before any discussion about unification with the Vulcans the Romulans (and Remans) should be unified, I guess - or so will many Romulans think.
tmassx: I am not sure if Sela did not least cooperate with the TS before (some of the operations she was involved suggest that, I would say). But you are true - with a little bit of good writing she (or someone other) could be a more convincing leader than D'Tan. Sadly I see it not happened that the RR could get a new leadership soon, which fits more what Romulans deserve...:D and need.
Well, there was some good writing on Sela prior to LoR that would have made here a good leader for the Romulans. Number one, prior to LoR, she was pretty much the mortal enemy of the Tal Shiar-since they framed her for murder and almost got her executed for it in a kangaroo court. Cryptic has been slowly chipping away at references to the previous lore, (changing references to 'Romulans' to 'Tal Shiar', making Hakeev Sela's right hand) but there are still snippets here and there that reference it. Obisek still references Sela's hate of the Tal Shiar in a dialogue in 'Darkness Before the Dawn', for instance.
Cryptic just decided to throw subtlety to the wind, but there was some decent framework that could have set Sela up to be the leader of a Romulan faction prior to LoR.
There definitely needs to be some recognition of more traditional Romulan mindsets in the Republic, or at least some recognition that places like Rator and the old Star Empire still exist, even if the Tal Shiar is basically defeated by this point.
feiqa: I do not believe that the nobles per se were destroyed when Romulos was. At first I think there was a kind of cursus honorium many members of the nobility go through - which means, members of many of the great families might even not be on Romulos when it was destroyed, but served on board of warships, or in the colonies. And I guess if anyone had a chance to escape the event, than nobles who had much more access to transporters and ships. And there might even be "branches" of the noble families in the colonies over the centuries, minor members who had found a new home there, married there etc. So I think while many of the old families are surely decimated, I do not think they all were extinct, or even most of them. If there would be a honest try to build a new senate of members of the old families (and perhaps some new ones) I guess that would be possible and much more inclusive than D'Tans style of leadership which left the greates part of the Romulan society outiside (at least until now). He has no real legitimation (you could argue that someone like Sela had much more right to rule than he...).
And I think it would be pity if the Romulan Republic would not include the worlds who are not founded by the insurgents (like New Romulos) or joined there movement in the early days of the Republican "uprising". There are many worlds left under the control of TS and Imperial people, I guess. Bringing them together could very well form the start of a new Empire. Before any discussion about unification with the Vulcans the Romulans (and Remans) should be unified, I guess - or so will many Romulans think.
tmassx: I am not sure if Sela did not least cooperate with the TS before (some of the operations she was involved suggest that, I would say). But you are true - with a little bit of good writing she (or someone other) could be a more convincing leader than D'Tan. Sadly I see it not happened that the RR could get a new leadership soon, which fits more what Romulans deserve...:D and need.
To your first part. No argument. It is possible some survived, even with Sela culling the members to find sycophants to follow her idiocy.
The question of what worlds actually belong to the Romulan Republic is very debatable, sadly. You can point to the sectors for Earth or Qo'nos and say that whole sector is fed or kdf. We can't draw the lines as neatly for the RR yet.
Now this is a bit of fridge logic that came to me while waiting on a reply here. What is the difference between a good liar and a bad one? Getting caught. One of the gripes about D'tan is that he is not the shrewd schemer that Romulans are known for. And as Picard put it. Dealing with Romulans is a chess game. So let's look at what he has done. He with no apparent legitimate claim to a house is a leader of a resistance. Gets the militant resistance to follow him, and is elected Proconsul. (yeah I would love to know who the other senators are too.) He has maneuvered the two warring factions to work in close proximity and fund the rebuilding of the Romulans. The gripe is he is forming a feddy bear republic. Well it does seem it would be the best economic structure to build the frame work swiftly. And it is one the Feds will gravitate towards and the Klingons will feel less threatened by.
How does this point to him being the schemer we want? He may not be, or he may be one of the best. Because he has not been caught.
My sideways comparison: before Phantom Menace the writeup of Palpatine was that he was a minor senator that seemed no threat to anyone. He kept getting more and more work sent his way as everyone assumed he was just a patsy for them or their own allies. When he pulled all his strings he caught everyone off guard because no one realized just how much he controlled by then. Just a thought.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
While I agree with the original post, it's simple. Cryptic started out with Feds vs. Klingons.
Red vs. Blue. Violets are blue, roses are red, living like there, we were already dead :P
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Comments
Would I love to see romulans have there own fleets not tied to fed / kdf ? Sure I would. Would I love to see Rommies have a faction exclusive Elite fleet plasma weapon set ? Maybe... but for me when I think of "elite fleet plasma " I just look at the new romulas Rep and rom plasma. To me that is our elite fleet plasma, just stinks that all factions can have access to it. But it is what it is people. I've had no complaints flying around in my warbirds. I like the enjoyment of flying them. So I don't mind shelling out whenever we get a new warbird. Except for the Scimitars as they take all the fun out of things making content extremely trivial.
I would rather be for creating the present and the future than changing the past - but true independence would be I think I could fully support. Mainly if that mean that the Republic becomes less the good guys they are more or less now, setting a focus on rallying ALL Romulan people - with a Senate made out of members of the old families, but also off new men and women who earn honour by fighting not only for the Republic, but also members of the Imperial Administration, the Navy and even the Tal Shiar which had done well in defending their small part of the former Empire when the Empire collapsed. Remans and perhaps in the future even other rare members of other species may be also integrated, in the last case perhaps not as full members...
A complicated neutrality towards the Klingons and the Federation (perhaps a cooperation in some limited areas) with a (or more than one) neutral zone, and a set of allied smaller nations, who were convinced, tricked or even forced to accept the Senate and People of Romulos as their superiors. The Republic as a force which is strong enough that the Federation or Klingons could not easily defeat them because they must fear that than the Romulans would ally with the rival faction. The Republic would be not a major player, but more or less independent - and should have own assignments etc.
That is you, I'd happily leave the fleets my Roms are in to build a pure Rom one up from the ground up and those fleets are both nearly maxxed out on all projects.
However I'll echo the postee above ... I would happily start all over again with a new Fleet, if it meant I could create a Romulan/Reman one. Yes, I've pent considerable resources on 3 different Fleets to help build them up, both Fed and KDF side, but that's juts part of the game ... What eslse are you going to do with all the resources anyway?
I just want to be recognized as a Romulan. * I don't want "For the Empire!" on my screen when I do a Tholian RA or a Borg RA) I want a few, just a few, Fleet Uniforms. I want just the basic amenities that Klinks and Feds take for granted, like security officers, DoFF grinders, and BoFF recruitment. I want Romulan Ship Bridges.
I WANT TEAL AND PURPLE COLOR PALLETS OPTIONS!
I want my own Romulan Fleet Starbase!
Gawd, the assets are already in game for Spocks sake! We run around in Romulan Starbases, we run around in Romulan building. We run around in Romulan cities, we run around in Romulan ships! ... Arrgghhhh ...
I don't see why independence would necessitate dismantling the alliance system. A sovereign polity may have alliances with other sovereign polities.
I say give us the three factions, and let fleet leaders decide which faction their fleet is in; if they choose Romulan, then give them the option of Fed-allied, Klingon-allied, or stand-alone. I have a level 9 fleet. It is allied with the Klingon Empire, but it is a fleet of the New Romulan Republic. I see no reason to give that up and start over building that again, and will vehemently oppose the idea. But that doesn't mean that we can't have an independent faction.
We should definitely have some way of converting existing KDF/Republic fleets into Republic fleets though.
It's no gonna happend, specially the Refugee/Endangered Species setting cryptic made for the Romies.
Again, it was said that there would never be a romulan faction. Now there is. Continued interest promotes interest in making and growing the things we desire.
The recommendation of a third path for RR captains means we stick to the no villians creed, and allows the least amount of work to be put in to encourage the fans for this faction.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
It was never said there never shall be a romulan faction. Playable romulans were talked about since the release of the game.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
So in other words, a "no villains" clause means to make an "independent" Romulan faction Federation v2.0.
Which is exactly what D'Tan's Romulan Republic is now.
I think this could be seen different. Even Star-Empire-Romulans I think would not do much worse things than Klingons do on a regular basis. There are Raids (A LOT of raids/ bombings, blockades etc.), the torture of prisoners, you could sell them to the orions, manage assassinations, sabotage etc. So a behavior which is perhaps a little bit less open aggressive than the Klingons do so often and a little bit more sneaky and cunning would make Roms not more villains than the Klingons are - but much more ROMULAN than this white-washed Federation-clons they seem to be now.
For a truly Romulan faction I gues diplomacy, espionage and political intrigues would be stronger and more frequent than for Klingons, and there may be do more fighting-jobs than for the Feds (but perhaps less than for the Klingons). You could made them a good mix, I would say, and they would neither be giggeling maniacs nor epohh-tagging softies...
D'Tan is not less Romulan than you because he does not choose to blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. That choice also does not say anything about the size of his membrum virilie, so please stop waving yours around as if it's the Teral'n. D'Tan was elected Proconsul. You were not. And we're all much better off as a result.
A consistent portrayal across three series doesn't come across as 'warped' to me. It takes some severe tunnel vision to write off all of that as an aberration IMO.
Anyways, that same 'warped' portrayal dominated STO until Cryptic decided to retcon everything into a simplistic dualistic 'black hat, white hat' affair with the Republic being based off the Bajoran Resistance....not necessarily because their portrayal was some sort of gaping plot hole that needed filling (indeed, it opened more than it closed), but for purely monetary reasons....Rihhansu novels were just a convenient excuse at hand to apply said retcon...make no mistake about it.
If there were elections, who did vote? Noble houses would not dirt themselves into reunificationist.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
It's proto.... if it aint ToS and/or the novels she likes it aint right to her... to hell with anything/anyone else
Perhaps it would be time - in play - to think about a proconsul (or how you want to call it) which agenda is not one of kneeing before a "teacher" who has Romulan blood on his hand (Spock was indeed involved in hostile acts against the Empire during his service under Kirk). A proconsul which represented not one fraction of a bitter inter-Romulan conflict, but one who stands for tradition AND new beginning. A description which of course D'Tan never could match... At least I guess some Romulans (and more and more?) will think so. A Praetor, Consul, whatsoever chosen (or found/ proclaimed) not only by re-unificationists and people who believe in "values" which have in several cases not much in common with Romulan tradition. But from a new senate, build out of members of the Noble Houses and perhaps also "new" men and women from families which were raised to nobility for their actions since the destruction of Romulos (and that means also members of the TS and the Fleet and the Imperial Administration which take care for planets or fleets etc. during these chaotic years). I guess many Romulan Players would have no problem with such a development. To hell with it, you could even include the players in starting a contest who presents the best candidate/ political fraction etc, which wins the most votes from others. I guess many players would love it to have their ideas heard (or have at least to chance for that).
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
jo'lan tru
Responding to a couple posts so bear with me as I ramble.
Romulans/RSE and villainy, From the point of view of the Klingons or the federation. Sure were. Now how can It be reconciled? USA citizenry generally don't consider themselves or their government as evil (Broad brushes! Put the pitchforks away!) As I was saying, but the actions of the CIA during the cold war, the FBI under Hoover, or the McCarthy trials all look similar to what was known of the RSE. Looking from the outside. Actions of soldiers in Vietnam, some were horrendous. But as a whole and through the entirety of our history we do not see ourselves as evil. So yes I can see the RSE as a 'white hat'.
That being said the RSE is dead. It died when Romulus and the nobles did. Sela in all her incarnations does not even strike me as a decent administrator let alone leader and I believe we can all agree Hakeev was a madman. This is what took up the mantle of the RSE. With Hakeev calling the shots the more unhinged of the tal shiar moved up in the ranks while the more stable that sought to balance the empire and bring it back to glory were kept at arms length and used as bait to attempt to trap enemies.
Personally if Hakeev had been smarter he would have seen to it we did find evidence of D'tan's evils on Virinat. Of how perhaps we did not know but D'tan had hidden caches of weapons there and was using the civilian populace as a shield. He could have smeared D'tan's name. Converted the PC and supporters and unified forces under his control. Instead it was bumbling efforts to do nothing for false information other than send two groups down and let them assume the other was up to no good. So much for scheming.
As for the Romulans being expansionistic. With what? Again Hakeev (please insert appropriate swearing) us over. Give us an established breadbasket like Virinat, shipyards like Gasko station, and trade partners like the Suliban and you have the makings of an infrastructure to expand readily to new systems and make them yours. Hakeev may as well have blown us back to the age of sail for we have to finish colonizing a homeworld before we can afford to properly expand to new systems.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Two major factions that still need to be added to the game would be Cardassians and the Dominion. More could be added later, but these are the 5 major powers seen throughout the Star Trek TV series, that are, or have a presence in the Alpha quadrant. Personally, I am hoping that Delta rising sees the introduction of the Cardassians faction to STO, as a mini faction, similar to the Romulans.
Per assumption, but it took 1 1/2 years to being out the new faction coming in Delta rising. Thus, if a 5th faction was made, it would be mid 2016 before release. I think that would be the perfect time to then go back, and upgrade the 3 mini factions into full factions. This would be done, by moving the timeline forward, creating new missions, and overhauling the game from the current blue-vs-red to independent faction ideals and goals. At minimum, this would probably take another 1 1/2 years, so I wouldn't plan on a full Romulan faction until at least 2018...although I hope it's sooner.
"An explanation appears in the backstory of Star Trek Online, which states that the shockwave propagated through subspace at faster-than-light speeds. Also in the game's backstory, a scandal occurred several years later involving rumors that the Vulcan Science Academy knew about the instability of the star but did nothing until Spock attempted to save Romulus with the Jellyfish. The scandal resulted in several resignations and sowed seeds of distrust towards the Vulcans.
It is also confirmed by the Featured Episode series "Cloaked Intentions" that Remus was also destroyed, however the Romulans and Remans still continue their prejudices towards each other. It is also revealed that the supernova was not a natural occurrence, but was engineered by then-Praetor Taris, who did so under orders from the Iconians."
This suggests that the leader would not become an unificationist ( D'Tan) or even servant Iconians ( Hakeev ) .
It is obvious that STO making the same mistakes as the series ST. It would take one head writer of the story.
Too bad that destroyed Donatra here , she would be the perfect candidate , in my opinion , Sela or , if they did not add her to the Tal Shiar ( btw how could add to the Tal Shiar , she was one of the leading members of the military , and we know that these two companies are not in love) .
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
And I think it would be pity if the Romulan Republic would not include the worlds who are not founded by the insurgents (like New Romulos) or joined there movement in the early days of the Republican "uprising". There are many worlds left under the control of TS and Imperial people, I guess. Bringing them together could very well form the start of a new Empire. Before any discussion about unification with the Vulcans the Romulans (and Remans) should be unified, I guess - or so will many Romulans think.
tmassx: I am not sure if Sela did not least cooperate with the TS before (some of the operations she was involved suggest that, I would say). But you are true - with a little bit of good writing she (or someone other) could be a more convincing leader than D'Tan. Sadly I see it not happened that the RR could get a new leadership soon, which fits more what Romulans deserve...:D and need.
Well, there was some good writing on Sela prior to LoR that would have made here a good leader for the Romulans. Number one, prior to LoR, she was pretty much the mortal enemy of the Tal Shiar-since they framed her for murder and almost got her executed for it in a kangaroo court. Cryptic has been slowly chipping away at references to the previous lore, (changing references to 'Romulans' to 'Tal Shiar', making Hakeev Sela's right hand) but there are still snippets here and there that reference it. Obisek still references Sela's hate of the Tal Shiar in a dialogue in 'Darkness Before the Dawn', for instance.
Cryptic just decided to throw subtlety to the wind, but there was some decent framework that could have set Sela up to be the leader of a Romulan faction prior to LoR.
There definitely needs to be some recognition of more traditional Romulan mindsets in the Republic, or at least some recognition that places like Rator and the old Star Empire still exist, even if the Tal Shiar is basically defeated by this point.
To your first part. No argument. It is possible some survived, even with Sela culling the members to find sycophants to follow her idiocy.
The question of what worlds actually belong to the Romulan Republic is very debatable, sadly. You can point to the sectors for Earth or Qo'nos and say that whole sector is fed or kdf. We can't draw the lines as neatly for the RR yet.
Now this is a bit of fridge logic that came to me while waiting on a reply here. What is the difference between a good liar and a bad one? Getting caught. One of the gripes about D'tan is that he is not the shrewd schemer that Romulans are known for. And as Picard put it. Dealing with Romulans is a chess game. So let's look at what he has done. He with no apparent legitimate claim to a house is a leader of a resistance. Gets the militant resistance to follow him, and is elected Proconsul. (yeah I would love to know who the other senators are too.) He has maneuvered the two warring factions to work in close proximity and fund the rebuilding of the Romulans. The gripe is he is forming a feddy bear republic. Well it does seem it would be the best economic structure to build the frame work swiftly. And it is one the Feds will gravitate towards and the Klingons will feel less threatened by.
How does this point to him being the schemer we want? He may not be, or he may be one of the best. Because he has not been caught.
My sideways comparison: before Phantom Menace the writeup of Palpatine was that he was a minor senator that seemed no threat to anyone. He kept getting more and more work sent his way as everyone assumed he was just a patsy for them or their own allies. When he pulled all his strings he caught everyone off guard because no one realized just how much he controlled by then. Just a thought.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Red vs. Blue. Violets are blue, roses are red, living like there, we were already dead :P
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.