Isn't trading real life goods for ingame goods against the rules?
The point is something both players agree on a value of something. It could be deployable device turrets, VR Mk XII [crtD]x3 Disruptor DHCs, tribbles, whatever. Point is, it has agreed value.
Could you list 1 reason why the exchange limit should not be increased, that isn't "players are too poor to afford it".
1. Such an increase will primarily cater to Gold Sellers and their gold selling websites, that's a given.
2. I can see this being abused to the letter, as certain groups of people will try to control and corner the market. Who is to say that the OP who is a Ferengi lover, and a troll at that, form his own group to corner the markets on certain goods. It only takes a handful of dedicated and united players to play the Ferengi alliance on the exchange.
3. The market is "FINE" as it is, there is "NO" need to increase the cap. If the prices are now outrageous as it is, what do you think will happen when the cap is lifted?
4. Only players that want a EC cap increase are role playing Ferengi, Gold Sellers, and people who think EC is a god to them. In other words, the filthy rich player that just want to hikes things up for kicks and giggles. (NOTE: Not saying all rich players are little greedy ferengi)
1: It doesn't make sense to limit the amount of currency that can be traded on an exchange.
2: The current 'exchange' does not cater for all items which are available for trade.
3: Why does it affect you in any way if the exchange is increased? Prices will not be affected, the current "value" of items will stay the same.
4: If the silver player (the majority of players) EC cap is 10 million, why then should the exchange limit not be 5 million? Because that would be ridiculous, you couldn't post your valuables on the exchange... Well guess what, I buy and sell bug ships frequently and I can't post them on the exchange, so yes it kind of is game breaking.
1. It "DOES" make sense to limit the EC market, just like it makes sense to limit Dilithium refinement and the dilithium exchange. It also helps curtail "SOME" of those players that are Gold Selling.
2. Then its a search and find feature that needs to be fixed. It is a Category system that needs revamping, that has nothing to do with EC cap increase.
3. Cause and effect is in question, of course it will effect prices. You based yourself on an assumption that all will be fine and remain the same. Ask yourself then, why the cry for an EC Cap increase? Why the need? To sell high of course, *sigh* some people.
4. No it is "NOT" game breaking, your GREED is game breaking, and borderline suspect of an involvement in the illegal market. Your 4th reply is dumb all around, sry to say that, but its true. I smell nothing but Gold sellers, Ferengi RP fanatics, and plain greedy players who has nothing better to do than SNAFU the exchange.
Truth is, the exchange only needs a search feature revamping to help search for tose hard to find items. Exchange is "FINE" as is. Want to sell past 500Million EC, USE the frack'n Trade channel where you can sell it for 1 billion plus trade in goods. Nuff said -
Possibly, although I have my doubts, most players with the money to afford bug ships and bulwarks would not be significantly affected by an ec sink, so I wonder how effective it would be. It might help to slow the problem, or provide a temporary solution but I have a feeling such a sink would just end up going like this.
Rich players buy if they feel it will not be too detrimental to their assets. >
Poor players seeing this super duper item start desperately grinding the only way they know how, by collecting and selling vendor trash at an even higher rate than they currently are. >
EC inflation continues at current rate, or increases because of the extra grinding.
Problem remains.
It's not something that can be added now to solve the wealth disparity issue, it's something that should have existed from the start to delay the issue.
Though regardless, all of these pricing issues come from flipping items on the market. With very few exceptions, that's how these high wealth players come to exist in every MMO with a relatively free market. Most other auction houses have mechanics in place to combat flipping items, but STO does not.
Cryptic learned their lesson from CO and STO and implemented disincentives in Neverwinter, but it hasn't been applied back into STO or CO. People complain that fees or deposits would drive the market off the Exchange, but that's the point - the inconvenience is the penalty for skirting economic controls. Making the exchange non-anonymous would also instantly reveal any attempts at price manipulation (and publicly shame the silly people who list at less than vendor price).
Heck, if Cryptic really wanted to fix the issue where we essentially have two different markets, they would implement the other half of the system in Neverwinter - make it like Dil, where you can't directly trade money at all.
Here's the thing too - if it drives away the super rich players, the game doesn't actually lose anything. If you have billions and can buy anything, you're not going to be the guys gambling real money on lockboxes, because you'd be the guys directly buying what comes out of the lockboxes. If you're playing the actual game, then you'd still be playing regardless. Losing those who play the market costs PWE nothing, and the drop in prices would actually make the exchange more welcoming to the newbies joining.
Probably because the RNG could have been kind and they actually got the ship for spending 2.5m on a key from the exchange. If a ship definitely cost a boat load of zen then people would be happy to spend a fortune on it, but it could have cost a pittance and the proposed markup is extortionate.
1. Such an increase will primarily cater to Gold Sellers and their gold selling websites, that's a given.
2. I can see this being abused to the letter, as certain groups of people will try to control and corner the market. Who is to say that the OP who is a Ferengi lover, and a troll at that, form his own group to corner the markets on certain goods. It only takes a handful of dedicated and united players to play the Ferengi alliance on the exchange.
3. The market is "FINE" as it is, there is "NO" need to increase the cap. If the prices are now outrageous as it is, what do you think will happen when the cap is lifted?
4. Only players that want a EC cap increase are role playing Ferengi, Gold Sellers, and people who think EC is a god to them. In other words, the filthy rich player that just want to hikes things up for kicks and giggles. (NOTE: Not saying all rich players are little greedy ferengi)
1. It "DOES" make sense to limit the EC market, just like it makes sense to limit Dilithium refinement and the dilithium exchange. It also helps curtail "SOME" of those players that are Gold Selling.
2. Then its a search and find feature that needs to be fixed. It is a Category system that needs revamping, that has nothing to do with EC cap increase.
3. Cause and effect is in question, of course it will effect prices. You based yourself on an assumption that all will be fine and remain the same. Ask yourself then, why the cry for an EC Cap increase? Why the need? To sell high of course, *sigh* some people.
4. No it is "NOT" game breaking, your GREED is game breaking, and borderline suspect of an involvement in the illegal market. Your 4th reply is dumb all around, sry to say that, but its true. I smell nothing but Gold sellers, Ferengi RP fanatics, and plain greedy players who has nothing better to do than SNAFU the exchange.
Truth is, the exchange only needs a search feature revamping to help search for tose hard to find items. Exchange is "FINE" as is. Want to sell past 500Million EC, USE the frack'n Trade channel where you can sell it for 1 billion plus trade in goods. Nuff said -
This thread is nothing but a Troll TRIBBLE.
I would have to agree with every one of these points. You are Spot On! I know some insanely rich players that would absolutely troll the exchange if the limit was raised--they already do it as is.
As for a limit increase, there are only two items that are above the 500M mark--in fact, there are only two items anywhere near the 500M limit. So what you are asking is to potentially wreck the exchange and EC market for two ships. . . . that is silly.
Cryptic dropped the limit to 500M from "No Limit" b/c people were already abusing it. The limit works perfectly as is. Now, if EVERY item was bumping the limit, then you might have an argument, but as the market currently stands, there is absolutely no need.
Also, regarding the bug and the bulwark--most people stock these ships as "EC Holders" to get around the 1B toon limit/ 500M Fleet limit / 500M Account Bank limit. Rather than making an army of toons to simply hold ec, it is much easier to stock these ships. The bug is an ok ship--really only viable in PVP, but a little long in the tooth and many ships are better. The Bulwark is a mistery. That boat is horrible and the console is. . . .meh--definitely not worth 500+M. The reason it got so pricey is that no one wants or opened that ship, so supply was heavily restricted.
Anyway, what I would like is a bump in personal EC limit: make it 5B or 10B. I hate having to shift between toons and account banks to transfer EC when trying to make a play.
Uh folks I shouldn't have to point out but I will in big bold letters -
PURCHASING ANY ITEMS, OR IN GAME CURRENCY FROM A 3RD PARTY WEBSITE IS AGAINST THE TERMS OF SERVICE AND EULA. DOING SO CAN GET YOUR ACCOUNT BANNED PERMANENTLY.
You have been warned.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
I hope they do something like the 300% of value max that someone suggested.
I LOVE the trade window....
"Never be afraid to mislabel a product." ROA 239
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"A contract is a contract is a contract ... but only between Ferengi." ROA 17
There is a limit but it's not 1 billion. The real limit is 1 billion per character. That's 49 billion, plus another billion in the Account bank, and for those with solo fleets another billion can be stored in a solo fleet bank.
Now if my math and memory is right that's 51 billion per account.
In off exchange transactions there's nothing stopping people bartering in amounts greater than 1 billion by simply switching characters and continuing doing transfers until the agreed upon amount has been paid.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Look what had happened to the Exchange prices of Mineral Samples, Radiation Samples, and Alien Artifacts since Cryptic announced the free Aegis Doff. The last I looked they were running 4k - 8k each with higher prices in bulk quantities (opposite of normal). Some knuckleheads even listing them for millions of EC each (saw a few at 250 m). No way someone is using the Exchange to 'store' a single sample.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Look what had happened to the Exchange prices of Mineral Samples, Radiation Samples, and Alien Artifacts since Cryptic announced the free Aegis Doff. The last I looked they were running 4k - 8k each with higher prices in bulk quantities (opposite of normal). Some knuckleheads even listing them for millions of EC each (saw a few at 250 m). No way someone is using the Exchange to 'store' a single sample.
"A wise man can hear profit in the wind." ROA 22
In this case all one has to do is pay attention to the wind created by the games developers.
Though regardless, all of these pricing issues come from flipping items on the market. With very few exceptions, that's how these high wealth players come to exist in every MMO with a relatively free market. Most other auction houses have mechanics in place to combat flipping items, but STO does not.
Yeah, this is why I suggested adding a listing fee. I've seen in in Champions, but I'm not sure if it's something that applies to everyone or just silver players.
If this disastrous harm was inflicted on the game, not only would the poor not be able to afford the items they can't afford now, but they wouldn't even be able to find the items they could afford for sale.
how so? if everything is cheap then anyone can affort it.. more happy people then
Why peope, are willing to pay what they are willing to pay can't be my business.
I have my own reasons I pay what I do for what I do, and those reasons can't be anyone else's business.
"Treat others as you want to be treated"
Your handle is well deserved as you just repeat the same junk over and over.
I do agree with others that paying that much for a ship is stupid, but there are plenty of fools playing this game. Just keep trading your overpriced junk over murky channels and leave the Exchange alone. Most players don't have billions of EC to throw around like that.
If increasing the price limit would raise the prices, why are lockbox ships still sold for ~200M EC when there's a 500M limit? Would players only sell them for 400M when the cap is 1b?
Why aren't common doffs sold for 5M now?
When will the market-manipulating billionaires push the Galor and D'Kora to 400-500M?
I would not put a cap on the exchange period, the free market will decide the proper price for items. The 1bil EC character cap does put a cap on it unfortunately. As to those who complain about us billionaires driving things over 500mil that is total BS. If I wanted to I could make galors or d'koras 500mil EC right now, and I am not the only one. Why don't we, because its a loosing proposition, you will never hold it at that price permanently and in the end will loose EC trying to. And really, whats the big difference from someone trying to push a ship to 500 mil or 1 bil.
The only real effect of increasing the cap is that people will be able to buy those items that are worth over 500mil without having to deal with trading channels / zone chat to find them. This ofcourse being only 2 items, Jem Hadar Attack Ship and Bulwark ****ty dreadnought. As it stands all the cap does is make it harder for people who want to buy them to get them. The cap increase will have zero effect on any other item on the market.
When they become as scarce, and in demand as the bug ship.
People tend to forget that there are supplies for all the lockbox ships... and its those supplies that determine the value... just look at the list of ships and consider where they come from.
Bull and Bug... Zero supply Right now. ZERO. The odd promo comes along that bumps up a small amount of supply (small in comparison to the other ships). 500-750 Million EC
Galor / Dkora - 200-300 mil Ferengi and Card lockboxs. 2 of the least opened lockboxes in the game. They have no traits... bad or no weapon options... no Rich D tickets.... bottom line very low number of in demand things... so they don't get opened... meaning the ships are in fact pretty rare.
Tholian Orb - 150-225 mil ... again look at the box it comes out of its not exactly a box people open on a regular basis. The ORB is a lack luster science ship but sells for a good chunk of EC compared to say a voth pallisade which comes from the lobi store and is plentiful. Rarity determines the price.
Temerpal Science - 175-250 mil - Lockbox isn't super popular and the ship is very popular... both things result in an inflated price.
Elachi / Hirogne / Romulan / Dom 55-120 mil - These guys are all super plentiful because all 3 boxes are opened often. They have traits weapons doffs and goodies in them that are in demand. Something like the elachi escort for instance you can get them for 50mil on a weekend not because the ship is bad (on the contrary its a great escort) bottom line is people open tons of elachi boxes every day... great traits great weapons great doffs, the boxes goodies makre the average return on that box is high... so the ship gets pulled more... so yes the value on the ship is lower.
Anyway I don't meant to keep posting threads stating obvious things. Supply and Demand determine pricing in a free market. Its not exactly rocket science... its economics 101.
If I wanted to I could make galors or d'koras 500mil EC right now, and I am not the only one. Why don't we, because its a loosing proposition, you will never hold it at that price permanently and in the end will loose EC trying to. And really, whats the big difference from someone trying to push a ship to 500 mil or 1 bil.
Your right on those ships the supply is low many of us could go and buy all 3 or 4 of them on the exchange and relist them at 500 mil ec.
However the demand isn't that high... and there is still a supply of them in game. Do that and 10 lockbox gamblers tonight all open 20-50 Snake head boxes each tonight and pull a couple ships and undercut you. Because the demand just isn't there.
You understand that of course... its odd that so many of these people don't seem to get that though. There are only 2 major items on the exchange with ZERO supply. Meaning if I don't have one I can't undercut you no matter what. I can't open 1000 boxes tonight and pull a few to undercut you with. So those TWO ships have had there $tags inflate to above 500. That bothers some people... really though I'm not to sure why.
Yeah, this is why I suggested adding a listing fee. I've seen in in Champions, but I'm not sure if it's something that applies to everyone or just silver players.
It's in Neverwinter and it was in WoW when I played there it makes sense
People tend to forget that there are supplies for all the lockbox ships... and its those supplies that determine the value... just look at the list of ships and consider where they come from.
It is not that simple. Supply and demand is part of the equation but monetary policy is also a factor. For a while now, the amount of EC has been growing in the system by leaps and bounds. Before they revamped the reps, there was a significant EC sink in the rep projects. There was also the EC costs for the holdings. Those are mostly done and costs for rep projects have been scaled way down.
So the amount of EC keeps going up, up and away! The solution is to introduce sinks which will soak up the EC. Since new players and more casual crowd are relatively poor, a million EC or less per toon, I suggested escalating costs based on gear and ships. Another possibility is to increase repair costs.
Probably the easiest and least controversial would be to add new vanity projects for fleet holdings which are take mostly EC! Instead of 300,000 dilithium make it require 150,000 dilithium and 30,000,000 EC.
Currently:
$1 = 100 zen = 15,000 dilithium
$5 = ship module = 10,000,000 million EC => $1 = 2,000,000 million EC
So I took a purely vanity project that spruces up the holding ... where we spent a tiny fraction of our time btw ... and converted 50% of the costs into EC. Now obviously, this could eat into Cryptic's profits a little. But i highly doubt that Cryptic is making buku bucks on these projects (even indirectly by draining dilithium => leading to dilithium purchase with zen)
That's one solution that will quickly siphon off lots of EC and award fleet marks to rich players. It also keeps players happy by making it a voluntary thing. I am sure there are even better options but this is just a quick thought.
Instead ... their solution is to nerf EC which only hurt players lacking EC now (which is the majority)!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I see your point... I just don't think your solution would really do what you think it would.
I have plenty of friends that could forget to log into one of there bank toons sitting at 995,000,000 ec for 6 months and not notice.
I could start 100 of your 30mil EC projects myself and still have bank toons untouched. So.... who would projects like that really help.
Fleets with out a few rich members would just skip them... and fleets with rich memebers would either skip them cause they could care less... or do them and still be sitting on enough ec to buy out all the lockbox ships one night just for yuks.
The only way it could become a true sink is if the projects where worth wile... and granted something people wanted. In which case the massive EC sink would simply make those with little and those with a medium amount of wealth poor. While those of us with banks full of ships and toons that sit ideal with maxxed bank... would just ride it out and not really notice the dent in the fortune.
I do get where you are coming from... imo the best way to take care of the issue. Would be to simply increase the supply.
Of course a solution like increasing supply would only happen IF Cryptic thought this was a real issue. To be honest with you I think they like where things are right now and would prefer to even see prices go up a bit on a few things. Most stuff is just high enough that it requires players to grind ... which leads to people that break down and spend $ to speed there grind. Just need 30mil more for that ship... ah wth $20 worth of keys and I'm set. I think Cryptic very much likes that.
However having said that... if they wanted to increase supply of Galors or Dkoras ect... all they would have to do would be to adjust what comes in those boxes. (they did do that once or twice already as those boxes are getting older). They could of course add a half decent doff pack into those older packs, a chance for Rich D tickets... and some sort of New Trait or a couple traits from other boxes into them. Instantly those boxes are getting opened more often and the prices on the grand prize goodies in them goes down.
Traits and doffs are the same way... yes the best stuff will always be worth more... but supply does come into it. Yes something like Helmsman has a good amount of demand on it. Really though the supply is low.
If the low supply was seen as a bad thing by Cryptic ... they could easily add that same trait to the next box or any other trait they like. There are plenty of things they could do to increase supply... I just honestly doubt they are seeing the current situation as an issue.
As I said, I don't think my solution is great. It is just quick / simple and with relatively low impact. I know fleets do the special projects because they need the marks OR because players are OCD about doing these limited time projects. Not all, but even my resource starved fleets have done quite a few!
I do agree that Cryptic ONLY wants players to grind OR spend the money. The problem is that this is short sighted. Inflating EC costs will eventually price out the average players and the game will be sustained by the big buck spenders ... aka the "whales" as dubbed in popular media. We saw what happened with social gaming that took that approach. Eventually, catering to an ever shrinking but wealthier clientele will narrow the game and kill off its popularity.
Wait ... that would be something like removing content and exploration cluster. Too late!
I see your point... I just don't think your solution would really do what you think it would.
...
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
As I said, I don't think my solution is great. It is just quick / simple and with relatively low impact. I know fleets do the special projects because they need the marks OR because players are OCD about doing these limited time projects. Not all, but even my resource starved fleets have done quite a few!
I do agree that Cryptic ONLY wants players to grind OR spend the money. The problem is that this is short sighted. Inflating EC costs will eventually price out the average players and the game will be sustained by the big buck spenders ... aka the "whales" as dubbed in popular media. We saw what happened with social gaming that took that approach. Eventually, catering to an ever shrinking but wealthier clientele will narrow the game and kill off its popularity.
Wait ... that would be something like removing content and exploration cluster. Too late!
You about have it summed up.
Right now I don't think the issue is red alert time... because I know most people can get everything they need by playing the game for a week or two, or by simply throwing 20 bucks at it.
I guess I could see the issue if inflation was to say double from where it is now. At that point I guess a few more lockbox ships would be pushing the 500 mil mark. Right now though it really is only 2 that have zero supply in game.
Cryptic could always pressure valve pricing though really fast by doing a "Golden" lockbox drop again. They could do a 1 week or even weekend event where gold versions of all the current lockboxes dropped and those boxes all had higher chances to pull anything of value from... or heck even if they just had a 2x multiplier on the lobi crystals. In one short event they could push a ton of supply on everything into the game. Of course truth is in those situations... the super rich just stock up for the lean times.
I don't know I don't think there really are that many great solutions... its to late at this point to slow the earning of EC. The super rich don't need to vendor engines or shields to maintain there wealth...
Oh wait they are going to try that aren't they. lmao
I liked the double blind auction system they had in City of Heroes.
Buyers placed bids of what they were willing to spend on an item.
Sellers set prices they were willing to sell for.
To encourage low selling prices the person who set the lowest selling price received the highest bid in the queue.
The system listed what the last 10 items sold for to give people an idea of what they might earn or have to spend on an item.
If there was a surplus available undersellers ran the risk of not getting a decent sales price, while overpricers ran the risk of never selling something.
And there was a 10% fee for selling items that was a non refundable money sink. So if you sold something for 500 million it cost you 50 million to set that price. If you couldn't sell it and had to lower your price you lost that 50 mil and had to pay another listing fee if you put it back up at a lower price.
Sounds a lot like the GW2 system.
Not knocking it at all cause I really like the purchase order idea.... just have to say though I do even less exchange work int that game. Cause honestly as much as I try to leave STO I always end up back. Anyway my point was I log into that game once or twice a week and walk away with 300-400mil gold profit every time. I think its even easier for the market workers to get rich in those systems myself. It is harder though to price fix items with massive supply for very long though.
Your right on those ships the supply is low many of us could go and buy all 3 or 4 of them on the exchange and relist them at 500 mil ec.
However the demand isn't that high... and there is still a supply of them in game. Do that and 10 lockbox gamblers tonight all open 20-50 Snake head boxes each tonight and pull a couple ships and undercut you. Because the demand just isn't there.
You understand that of course... its odd that so many of these people don't seem to get that though. There are only 2 major items on the exchange with ZERO supply. Meaning if I don't have one I can't undercut you no matter what. I can't open 1000 boxes tonight and pull a few to undercut you with. So those TWO ships have had there $tags inflate to above 500. That bothers some people... really though I'm not to sure why.
The only people it bothers, is those few who cannot list them on the exchange for over 500mill.
Use a freaking trade channel you lazy turds, and leave the vast majority to keep the exchange as is besides a better search engine.
Comments
That won't have the effect you think it will.
The point is something both players agree on a value of something. It could be deployable device turrets, VR Mk XII [crtD]x3 Disruptor DHCs, tribbles, whatever. Point is, it has agreed value.
1. Such an increase will primarily cater to Gold Sellers and their gold selling websites, that's a given.
2. I can see this being abused to the letter, as certain groups of people will try to control and corner the market. Who is to say that the OP who is a Ferengi lover, and a troll at that, form his own group to corner the markets on certain goods. It only takes a handful of dedicated and united players to play the Ferengi alliance on the exchange.
3. The market is "FINE" as it is, there is "NO" need to increase the cap. If the prices are now outrageous as it is, what do you think will happen when the cap is lifted?
4. Only players that want a EC cap increase are role playing Ferengi, Gold Sellers, and people who think EC is a god to them. In other words, the filthy rich player that just want to hikes things up for kicks and giggles. (NOTE: Not saying all rich players are little greedy ferengi)
1. It "DOES" make sense to limit the EC market, just like it makes sense to limit Dilithium refinement and the dilithium exchange. It also helps curtail "SOME" of those players that are Gold Selling.
2. Then its a search and find feature that needs to be fixed. It is a Category system that needs revamping, that has nothing to do with EC cap increase.
3. Cause and effect is in question, of course it will effect prices. You based yourself on an assumption that all will be fine and remain the same. Ask yourself then, why the cry for an EC Cap increase? Why the need? To sell high of course, *sigh* some people.
4. No it is "NOT" game breaking, your GREED is game breaking, and borderline suspect of an involvement in the illegal market. Your 4th reply is dumb all around, sry to say that, but its true. I smell nothing but Gold sellers, Ferengi RP fanatics, and plain greedy players who has nothing better to do than SNAFU the exchange.
Truth is, the exchange only needs a search feature revamping to help search for tose hard to find items. Exchange is "FINE" as is. Want to sell past 500Million EC, USE the frack'n Trade channel where you can sell it for 1 billion plus trade in goods. Nuff said -
This thread is nothing but a Troll TRIBBLE.
It's not something that can be added now to solve the wealth disparity issue, it's something that should have existed from the start to delay the issue.
Though regardless, all of these pricing issues come from flipping items on the market. With very few exceptions, that's how these high wealth players come to exist in every MMO with a relatively free market. Most other auction houses have mechanics in place to combat flipping items, but STO does not.
Cryptic learned their lesson from CO and STO and implemented disincentives in Neverwinter, but it hasn't been applied back into STO or CO. People complain that fees or deposits would drive the market off the Exchange, but that's the point - the inconvenience is the penalty for skirting economic controls. Making the exchange non-anonymous would also instantly reveal any attempts at price manipulation (and publicly shame the silly people who list at less than vendor price).
Heck, if Cryptic really wanted to fix the issue where we essentially have two different markets, they would implement the other half of the system in Neverwinter - make it like Dil, where you can't directly trade money at all.
Here's the thing too - if it drives away the super rich players, the game doesn't actually lose anything. If you have billions and can buy anything, you're not going to be the guys gambling real money on lockboxes, because you'd be the guys directly buying what comes out of the lockboxes. If you're playing the actual game, then you'd still be playing regardless. Losing those who play the market costs PWE nothing, and the drop in prices would actually make the exchange more welcoming to the newbies joining.
this is an mmo, so yes they would.
I would have to agree with every one of these points. You are Spot On! I know some insanely rich players that would absolutely troll the exchange if the limit was raised--they already do it as is.
As for a limit increase, there are only two items that are above the 500M mark--in fact, there are only two items anywhere near the 500M limit. So what you are asking is to potentially wreck the exchange and EC market for two ships. . . . that is silly.
Cryptic dropped the limit to 500M from "No Limit" b/c people were already abusing it. The limit works perfectly as is. Now, if EVERY item was bumping the limit, then you might have an argument, but as the market currently stands, there is absolutely no need.
Also, regarding the bug and the bulwark--most people stock these ships as "EC Holders" to get around the 1B toon limit/ 500M Fleet limit / 500M Account Bank limit. Rather than making an army of toons to simply hold ec, it is much easier to stock these ships. The bug is an ok ship--really only viable in PVP, but a little long in the tooth and many ships are better. The Bulwark is a mistery. That boat is horrible and the console is. . . .meh--definitely not worth 500+M. The reason it got so pricey is that no one wants or opened that ship, so supply was heavily restricted.
Anyway, what I would like is a bump in personal EC limit: make it 5B or 10B. I hate having to shift between toons and account banks to transfer EC when trying to make a play.
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I hope they do something like the 300% of value max that someone suggested.
I LOVE the trade window....
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"A contract is a contract is a contract ... but only between Ferengi." ROA 17
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A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
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"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Look what had happened to the Exchange prices of Mineral Samples, Radiation Samples, and Alien Artifacts since Cryptic announced the free Aegis Doff. The last I looked they were running 4k - 8k each with higher prices in bulk quantities (opposite of normal). Some knuckleheads even listing them for millions of EC each (saw a few at 250 m). No way someone is using the Exchange to 'store' a single sample.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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In this case all one has to do is pay attention to the wind created by the games developers.
My character Tsin'xing
how so? if everything is cheap then anyone can affort it.. more happy people then
Your handle is well deserved as you just repeat the same junk over and over.
I do agree with others that paying that much for a ship is stupid, but there are plenty of fools playing this game. Just keep trading your overpriced junk over murky channels and leave the Exchange alone. Most players don't have billions of EC to throw around like that.
Why aren't common doffs sold for 5M now?
When will the market-manipulating billionaires push the Galor and D'Kora to 400-500M?
If anything I would lower it.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
The only real effect of increasing the cap is that people will be able to buy those items that are worth over 500mil without having to deal with trading channels / zone chat to find them. This ofcourse being only 2 items, Jem Hadar Attack Ship and Bulwark ****ty dreadnought. As it stands all the cap does is make it harder for people who want to buy them to get them. The cap increase will have zero effect on any other item on the market.
People tend to forget that there are supplies for all the lockbox ships... and its those supplies that determine the value... just look at the list of ships and consider where they come from.
Bull and Bug... Zero supply Right now. ZERO. The odd promo comes along that bumps up a small amount of supply (small in comparison to the other ships). 500-750 Million EC
Galor / Dkora - 200-300 mil Ferengi and Card lockboxs. 2 of the least opened lockboxes in the game. They have no traits... bad or no weapon options... no Rich D tickets.... bottom line very low number of in demand things... so they don't get opened... meaning the ships are in fact pretty rare.
Tholian Orb - 150-225 mil ... again look at the box it comes out of its not exactly a box people open on a regular basis. The ORB is a lack luster science ship but sells for a good chunk of EC compared to say a voth pallisade which comes from the lobi store and is plentiful. Rarity determines the price.
Temerpal Science - 175-250 mil - Lockbox isn't super popular and the ship is very popular... both things result in an inflated price.
Elachi / Hirogne / Romulan / Dom 55-120 mil - These guys are all super plentiful because all 3 boxes are opened often. They have traits weapons doffs and goodies in them that are in demand. Something like the elachi escort for instance you can get them for 50mil on a weekend not because the ship is bad (on the contrary its a great escort) bottom line is people open tons of elachi boxes every day... great traits great weapons great doffs, the boxes goodies makre the average return on that box is high... so the ship gets pulled more... so yes the value on the ship is lower.
Anyway I don't meant to keep posting threads stating obvious things. Supply and Demand determine pricing in a free market. Its not exactly rocket science... its economics 101.
Your right on those ships the supply is low many of us could go and buy all 3 or 4 of them on the exchange and relist them at 500 mil ec.
However the demand isn't that high... and there is still a supply of them in game. Do that and 10 lockbox gamblers tonight all open 20-50 Snake head boxes each tonight and pull a couple ships and undercut you. Because the demand just isn't there.
You understand that of course... its odd that so many of these people don't seem to get that though. There are only 2 major items on the exchange with ZERO supply. Meaning if I don't have one I can't undercut you no matter what. I can't open 1000 boxes tonight and pull a few to undercut you with. So those TWO ships have had there $tags inflate to above 500. That bothers some people... really though I'm not to sure why.
It's in Neverwinter and it was in WoW when I played there it makes sense
It is not that simple. Supply and demand is part of the equation but monetary policy is also a factor. For a while now, the amount of EC has been growing in the system by leaps and bounds. Before they revamped the reps, there was a significant EC sink in the rep projects. There was also the EC costs for the holdings. Those are mostly done and costs for rep projects have been scaled way down.
So the amount of EC keeps going up, up and away! The solution is to introduce sinks which will soak up the EC. Since new players and more casual crowd are relatively poor, a million EC or less per toon, I suggested escalating costs based on gear and ships. Another possibility is to increase repair costs.
Probably the easiest and least controversial would be to add new vanity projects for fleet holdings which are take mostly EC! Instead of 300,000 dilithium make it require 150,000 dilithium and 30,000,000 EC.
Currently:
$1 = 100 zen = 15,000 dilithium
$5 = ship module = 10,000,000 million EC => $1 = 2,000,000 million EC
So I took a purely vanity project that spruces up the holding ... where we spent a tiny fraction of our time btw ... and converted 50% of the costs into EC. Now obviously, this could eat into Cryptic's profits a little. But i highly doubt that Cryptic is making buku bucks on these projects (even indirectly by draining dilithium => leading to dilithium purchase with zen)
That's one solution that will quickly siphon off lots of EC and award fleet marks to rich players. It also keeps players happy by making it a voluntary thing. I am sure there are even better options but this is just a quick thought.
Instead ... their solution is to nerf EC which only hurt players lacking EC now (which is the majority)!
- Judge Aaron Satie
I have plenty of friends that could forget to log into one of there bank toons sitting at 995,000,000 ec for 6 months and not notice.
I could start 100 of your 30mil EC projects myself and still have bank toons untouched. So.... who would projects like that really help.
Fleets with out a few rich members would just skip them... and fleets with rich memebers would either skip them cause they could care less... or do them and still be sitting on enough ec to buy out all the lockbox ships one night just for yuks.
The only way it could become a true sink is if the projects where worth wile... and granted something people wanted. In which case the massive EC sink would simply make those with little and those with a medium amount of wealth poor. While those of us with banks full of ships and toons that sit ideal with maxxed bank... would just ride it out and not really notice the dent in the fortune.
I do get where you are coming from... imo the best way to take care of the issue. Would be to simply increase the supply.
Of course a solution like increasing supply would only happen IF Cryptic thought this was a real issue. To be honest with you I think they like where things are right now and would prefer to even see prices go up a bit on a few things. Most stuff is just high enough that it requires players to grind ... which leads to people that break down and spend $ to speed there grind. Just need 30mil more for that ship... ah wth $20 worth of keys and I'm set. I think Cryptic very much likes that.
However having said that... if they wanted to increase supply of Galors or Dkoras ect... all they would have to do would be to adjust what comes in those boxes. (they did do that once or twice already as those boxes are getting older). They could of course add a half decent doff pack into those older packs, a chance for Rich D tickets... and some sort of New Trait or a couple traits from other boxes into them. Instantly those boxes are getting opened more often and the prices on the grand prize goodies in them goes down.
Traits and doffs are the same way... yes the best stuff will always be worth more... but supply does come into it. Yes something like Helmsman has a good amount of demand on it. Really though the supply is low.
If the low supply was seen as a bad thing by Cryptic ... they could easily add that same trait to the next box or any other trait they like. There are plenty of things they could do to increase supply... I just honestly doubt they are seeing the current situation as an issue.
I do agree that Cryptic ONLY wants players to grind OR spend the money. The problem is that this is short sighted. Inflating EC costs will eventually price out the average players and the game will be sustained by the big buck spenders ... aka the "whales" as dubbed in popular media. We saw what happened with social gaming that took that approach. Eventually, catering to an ever shrinking but wealthier clientele will narrow the game and kill off its popularity.
Wait ... that would be something like removing content and exploration cluster. Too late!
- Judge Aaron Satie
You about have it summed up.
Right now I don't think the issue is red alert time... because I know most people can get everything they need by playing the game for a week or two, or by simply throwing 20 bucks at it.
I guess I could see the issue if inflation was to say double from where it is now. At that point I guess a few more lockbox ships would be pushing the 500 mil mark. Right now though it really is only 2 that have zero supply in game.
Cryptic could always pressure valve pricing though really fast by doing a "Golden" lockbox drop again. They could do a 1 week or even weekend event where gold versions of all the current lockboxes dropped and those boxes all had higher chances to pull anything of value from... or heck even if they just had a 2x multiplier on the lobi crystals. In one short event they could push a ton of supply on everything into the game. Of course truth is in those situations... the super rich just stock up for the lean times.
I don't know I don't think there really are that many great solutions... its to late at this point to slow the earning of EC. The super rich don't need to vendor engines or shields to maintain there wealth...
Oh wait they are going to try that aren't they. lmao
Sounds a lot like the GW2 system.
Not knocking it at all cause I really like the purchase order idea.... just have to say though I do even less exchange work int that game. Cause honestly as much as I try to leave STO I always end up back. Anyway my point was I log into that game once or twice a week and walk away with 300-400mil gold profit every time. I think its even easier for the market workers to get rich in those systems myself. It is harder though to price fix items with massive supply for very long though.
Bam, gouging dealt with and a great big middle finger is raised to those who've hoarded them.
The only people it bothers, is those few who cannot list them on the exchange for over 500mill.
Use a freaking trade channel you lazy turds, and leave the vast majority to keep the exchange as is besides a better search engine.
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