Hello, I am a new player for start trek online, I recently downloaded the game and to start with was very off put about the download size. Personally from what I've experienced so far the download should have been half the size. Also the program that I was forced to download alongside of star trek online called arc, is a very nifty piece of technology that will undoubtedly put steam out of business.
Then I proceeded to play a tutorial that seems that it was made for children, like infants. Go do this, go do that, railroading players. The tutorial didn't teach anything that you couldn't figure out from having played any game ever.
Several hours and many annoying cutscenes later, I arrived at Earth Space Dock, aka the Galactic Emporium Space Mall, with armed guards for customer security. Pretty good art work and whatnot went into this. I talked to the boss man in charge of the place and he gave me a space ship for my troubles, strange that a fresh out the academy cadet gets to command a starship, bad investment choice there.
Boss man Quinn proceeded to give me my first assignment to go kill some orions that were raiding a freighter right outside of the space mall, cause there definitely isn't a fleet or anything guarding a large circumference around Earth. So on my way to the orion slaughter fest, I get prompted to go to some strange place. Delta Volanis Cluster? Boss man quinn didn't mention that, but since I grew up watching star trek and don't like being rail roaded into things, I decide to take a look.
This Delta Volanis Cluster is a strange place, there are freighters and tentacle like ships all over the place, I wonder how they got here. There are some anomalies and what not here that it seems I am supposed to scan, they did a lot of that on the TV show so this makes a lot of sense. So I proceed to fly around and scan some anomalies, this is strange though since they are giving me things for scanning them and I have no idea what they are for. The tutorial doesn't even mention them.
Wow, I just realized that I have no idea where I am anymore. There is no auto course for me to get out of here like there is to plot towards a mission. Guess I am gonna pull a voyager and get lost in the Delta (volanis) Quadrant. Meanwhile I might as well do some more stuff while I am trying to figure out how to leave and get back on the railroad tracks that Cryptic has been so kind enough to lay out for me. I go ahead and go a little of course to visit an unknown system, cause they did a lot of that on the TV show too if I recall correctly.
Man this is great, I warp in am instantly hailed by the planet asking if I can render assistance, since this does not violate the prime directive which as a fresh out of the academy cadet I should be very familiar with, I oblige. They want a few things to help their colony and whatnot progress, so I'm definitely gonna help them out since that is the right thing to do in this situation.
But wow, this entire experience so far has been completely unacceptable. This content is terrible. The download size is too big, and I some how managed to get lost in the Delta Quadrant voyager style. I quit pce out.
- new player 309 -
wat
I had done tens of these missions before I figured out what BOff powers were, and that I should click them. Also, hard drives are enormous these days - and cheap. I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.
Furthermore, the Foundry's limits are painfully obvious....
And maybe it's a gorgeous story, one that transcends the confines of the Foundry tool and makes a mission worth more than the time it takes to plow through it for loot, but the spirit of exploration - the one that makes it to where you genuinely do not know where exactly the game is going to take you - is not present.
That spirit is why I loved Star Trek - and even as a newbie player I gravitated towards these missions. I knew they were sloppy and repetitive, but I also knew that they were the closest thing I had to exploring the stars, so I made the best of them I could.
I've said before on multiple occasions that Cryptic doesn't understand Star Trek fans, or appreciate them, but this seems low even for them.
I am really confused by your post here. Ok, so yes, the Foundry has limits and we have to railroad you mostly, but the exploration missions you gravitated towards... talk about railroading, sheesh.
The foundry can do more than they do. The foundry can give you choices and branching dialogues and alternate objectives. I can't recall a single exploration cluster mission that did anything as complex as some of the choices that can be made in a Foundry mission.
Yet, you gravitated towards a section of the game where you were most railroaded to kill 5/5, scan 5/5, or press F 5/5 times. So, how is it that you gravitated toward the exploration clusters because they seemed more Star Trek, yet you critique the feel and look of Foundry, when it surpasses the feel and look of the actual exploration content you gravitated toward? An average Foundry railroads you far less than an average exploration cluster mission.
Er, sorry, confused. How were they the closest thing to exploring the stars, compared to some kind of hand-crafted Foundry exploration mission?
I am really confused by your post here. Ok, so yes, the Foundry has limits and we have to railroad you mostly, but the exploration missions you gravitated towards... talk about railroading, sheesh.
The foundry can do more than they do. They foundry can give you choices and branching dialogues and alternate objectives. I can't recall a single exploration cluster mission that did anything as complex as some of the choices that can be made in a Foundry mission.
Yet, you gravitated towards a section of the game where you were most railroaded to kill 5/5, scan 5/5, or press F 5/5 times. So, how is it that you gravitated toward the exploration clusters because they seemed more Star Trek, yet you critique the feel and look of Foundry, when it surpasses the feel and look of the actual exploration content you gravitated toward? An average Foundry railroads you far less than an average exploration cluster mission.
Er, sorry, confused. How were they the closest thing to exploring the stars, compared to some kind of hand-crafted Foundry exploration mission?
It was because I didn't know exactly what would happen. Granted, it was a random roll between 5 scans, 5 baddies, 3 scans and a handful of baddies, aid the planet with a random replicator item, etc, but I didn't know which one it would be.
I'm not saying that the foundry is worse, I'm saying that I would rather let the mission be random. Given that Cryptic will only be adding Foundry doors, it's just not as rewarding to me in terms of exploration. In terms of quality and story, yes, but not exploration.
Ideally, if the Foundry really is to replace clusters, we would have randomly selected Foundry missions tagged 'EXPLORATION - X CLUSTER' by their respective authors that we could enter by flying up to each mission's respective map location and selecting an 'explore strange new worlds' option. Foundry authors making these missions would be allowed to place a maximum of 3-5 anomalies on each of their exploration mission maps.
That would combine the quantity and quality of the Foundry with the randomness that makes exploration fun and a (albeit inferior without the star cluster maps themselves) source of crafting materials.
It would need heavy quality control and would start off with very few missions, but over time it (depending on the whim of the authors and the longevity of this game) could become the kind of exploration a Star Trek game should have.
It was because I didn't know exactly what would happen. Granted, it was a random roll between 5 scans, 5 baddies, 3 scans and a handful of baddies, aid the planet with a random replicator item, etc, but I didn't know which one it would be.
I'm not saying that the foundry is worse, I'm saying that I would rather let the mission be random.
OK, maybe I understand it a little better. So, if you had the following to choose from in a foundry list, it would feel random as well
"Explore Unknown System 4323"
"Explore Unknown System 30Z1"
"Explore Unknown System 4049"
The mission descriptions would be vague, and even with a more descriptive foundry mission, you don't know exactly what will happen, do you?
If you get a chance, please check out my spotlight "Relics." It's about a 35 minute mission, but I consider it to be a Foundry exploration-style mission. Please compare it to a roll of a die to see if, "Gee, will I get the 2 minute aid the planet or the 15 minute kill 5/5 ship mobs?" Please tell me if it feels like exploration. Sorry for the self-promotion.
Don't forget to pick up the Investigate Officer Reports. This experiment with Foundry exploration will probably grant you close to 4k dilithium.
OK, maybe I understand it a little better. So, if you had the following to choose from in a foundry list, it would feel random as well
"Explore Unknown System 4323"
"Explore Unknown System 30Z1"
"Explore Unknown System 4049"
The mission descriptions would be vague, and even with a more descriptive foundry mission, you don't know exactly what will happen, do you?
If you get a chance, please check out my spotlight "Relics." It's about a 35 minute mission, but I consider it to be a Foundry exploration-style mission. Please compare it to a roll of a die to see if, "Gee, will I get the 2 minute aid the planet or the 15 minute kill 5/5 ship mobs?" Please tell me if it feels like exploration. Sorry for the self-promotion.
Don't forget to pick up the Investigate Officer Reports. This experiment with Foundry exploration will probably grant you close to 4k dilithium.
I think you're getting it. In a random list, or, in my preference, a pool of randomly selected missions that the player has little to no control over, (either system would get the job done - hey! I just had an idea about such a system; I will post tomorrow) exploration-specific Foundry missions would be leagues superior to the existing exploration missions.
I'm almost positive I've played 'Relics' at least twice, but it was a while ago so I will play it again tomorrow morning to make sure.;)
Why not "Use your own Character Creator" to make some different species that we have not seen and ADD it to the existing Unexplored solar systems in the Unexplored Star Clusters and come up with some more cool missions that you can make randomly come up when we warp in?
Really, what is the difference if Cryptic makes the content or the community does? You wouldn't know the difference (i take that back, you would notice the difference in quality immediately). How many people fly around in the Odyssey, that was a fans creation. And now when you go to those sections of star clusters you can play missions that are completely and truley random, ever changing, never the same, always different, even wierd, and constantly new. You don't even have to do a thing but go to that point in space and see whats new.
And to be honest, having star clusters off to the side of the map was a little silly anyway. Makes more sense that a nebula can be found in the space between systems.
I would encourage you really consider what a F2P Cryptic-made exploration feature would look like.
According to Cryptic's OWN employees, they would be:
1- Easy to navigate maps so people don't get lost.
2- SUPER HIGH QUALITY missions, as that is their standard.
3- Very low on the load times so as to not make patch DLs really take a long time.
Seems that according to them, they'd be awesomesauce.
Really, what is the difference if Cryptic makes the content or the community does?
You'll see the results in due time.
I can't fathom how you support the removal of content though. I mean, this stuff could be left in the game, to the people who do like it and ALL OF THE OTHER EXTRA THINGS COULD ALSO BE ADDED and the game would improve by moving forward.
I can't fathom how you support the removal of content though. I mean, this stuff could be left in the game, to the people who do like it and ALL OF THE OTHER EXTRA THINGS COULD ALSO BE ADDED and the game would improve by moving forward.
But you're more in favor of removing stuff.
It boggles the mind.
Y'know, the more I see posts like this, the more that I'm starting to understand some of the thoughts that are going through people's heads with this.
There's a massive sentimental value being lost by losing the Star Clusters. The Star Clusters are old, the system is broken, it's been gathering dust for who knows how long, but it's there. You've had it for a long time and you just can't image it being taken away. It's like an old car whose AC is broken and the engine makes a strange noise and there's an odd smell. You should give it up and get something new, but you don't want to.
But, something has to give. And in the end, the old thing is being taken away
It's being taken away for those reasons, but in your mind, you can't fathom that idea of it being taken away. Even more, you can't fathom the idea of nothing replacing it. Like a dying tree in your front yard - you cut it down, but decide that putting up a new one is too much of an hassle, so you leave the land be.
You're left with a massive hole where something should be. And that infuriates you.
"Why did you take it away? It was still good!" "*I* still messed with it! Who cares about everyone else?!" "I don't care if it made things look bad! It didn't look bad to me!"
And thus, you start to rationalize it to blame something outlandish. It's greed. It's incompetence. It's to push something that you yourself don't use. If it doesn't benefit you, then obviously, the decision was wrong.
And thus, the bewildering statements of those who can accept it or have no cares whatsoever.
There's a massive sentimental value being lost by losing the Star Clusters. The Star Clusters are old, the system is broken, it's been gathering dust for who knows how long, but it's there.
It seems I have to post this yet again for a fifth time:
I USE THE SYSTEM.
It is one of my favorite things to do in the game.
I use it to role play. I've got a character who is made to be one of the Strekkellans. The entire story spins out of one of the missions from the B'Tran cluster.
I added to the missions. I wrote about them in my Captain's Log. (That's another old, old piece of the game, that I wonder how many people even are aware exists right now?)
So no, the system wasn't broken. It wasn't gathering dust.
I'd do at least a dozen of these missions per week across two sometimes three characters. I didn't do them for the dilithium (I got my dil cap from the voth battlezone and STFs). I didn't do them for crafting materials. I did them for ... get this ... FUN.
(ALSO, a lot of people keep talking about the broken maps. Since I did a lot more of these missions than some of you, I feel now might be a good time to share that I'd get a broken map less than 10% of the time. And would just drop the mission and grab another one. Took all of 2 minutes to deal with the dreaded broken map).
Removing them takes away one of my favorite aspects of gameplay. And leaves me with no replacement.
Removing them ruins my immersion. Ruins the Star Trek part of Star Trek Online. And ruins the backstory for two of my characters, one of them my main.
This isn't nostalgia for me. This is Cryptic taking a giant dump on me playing this game.
So no, when I say my mind is boggled, it truly is. There's people here who don't play this content. Which is fine. But they're in support of its removal. For no good reason. (And make no mistake, none of the reasons offered in Dev blog 29 are good reasons to remove part of the game, especially in this game which has a long 4 year history of being unable to deliver quality content in any sort of consistent manner).
It's ok though. Because this does set a precedent. And sometime in the next 6 to 12 months they'll "revamp" something else (maybe STFs) and remove something YOU actually like to play.
And then you'll get it.
Especially when some other poster says "I'm ok with them removing the Borg STFs. They were boring, and I never played them anyways."
It seems I have to post this yet again for a fifth time:
I USE THE SYSTEM.
It is one of my favorite things to do in the game.
I use it to role play. I've got a character who is made to be one of the Strekkellans. The entire story spins out of one of the missions from the B'Tran cluster.
I added to the missions. I wrote about them in my Captain's Log. (That's another old, old piece of the game, that I wonder how many people even are aware exists right now?)
So no, the system wasn't broken. It wasn't gathering dust.
I'd do at least a dozen of these missions per week across two sometimes three characters. I didn't do them for the dilithium (I got my dil cap from the voth battlezone and STFs). I didn't do them for crafting materials. I did them for ... get this ... FUN.
(ALSO, a lot of people keep talking about the broken maps. Since I did a lot more of these missions than some of you, I feel now might be a good time to share that I'd get a broken map less than 10% of the time. And would just drop the mission and grab another one. Took all of 2 minutes to deal with the dreaded broken map).
Removing them takes away one of my favorite aspects of gameplay. And leaves me with no replacement.
Removing them ruins my immersion. Ruins the Star Trek part of Star Trek Online. And ruins the backstory for two of my characters, one of them my main.
This isn't nostalgia for me. This is Cryptic taking a giant dump on me playing this game.
So no, when I say my mind is boggled, it truly is. There's people here who don't play this content. Which is fine. But they're in support of its removal. For no good reason. (And make no mistake, none of the reasons offered in Dev blog 29 are good reasons to remove part of the game, especially in this game which has a long 4 year history of being unable to deliver quality content in any sort of consistent manner).
It's ok though. Because this does set a precedent. And sometime in the next 6 to 12 months they'll "revamp" something else (maybe STFs) and remove something YOU actually like to play.
And then you'll get it.
Especially when some other poster says "I'm ok with them removing the Borg STFs. They were boring, and I never played them anyways."
Good luck with that.
note to self: OK this guy is serious. kill 5/5 mobs pleases a player. Please go kill 5 of 5 <insert random enemy.>
While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO. In the end we aim to make Star Trek Online something you’re excited to be playing every week
Removing a giant part of the game for me is a terrible idea.
How does removing the game aspects make it better?
I extensively do the exploration missions and have for years.
While I understand that the genesis program to recreate random worlds is terrible.....replacing it with nothing is absolutely ridiculous.
To anyone who says killing 5/5 enemies is boring....you ever play an MMo before? they all do it.....Those of us who have played since Eq1, Myself included, know this is the way things are.
To me....a long time customer it feels like you are taking away content that I moderately enjoy and rewarding me with nothing.
How is this asking me to return each week. and be excited?
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
In terms of exploration, the beginning is great, but the end seems too focused on internal backstories. Just my opinion, though - it's a great all-around mission.
Anyway, I will post a suggestion for a system to replace the Star Clusters in general discussion later today.
So This Is How Exploration Dies...With Thunderous Applause.
Never mind that a system is in place that can make in-depth and creative replacement for this feature with vastly more potential for exploration and first-contact except for the fact that apparently all the pissed off people are too lazy to utilize it.
This. Kudos to snoggymack22 and all the other explorers out there
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Never mind that a system is in place that can make in-depth and creative replacement for this feature with vastly more potential for exploration and first-contact except for the fact that apparently all the pissed off people are too lazy to utilize it.
Umm, the guy was actually re-phrasing a line from Star Wars Ep 3...
Never mind that a system is in place that can make in-depth and creative replacement for this feature with vastly more potential for exploration and first-contact except for the fact that apparently all the pissed off people are too lazy to utilize it.
Apparently the crowd would rather do a million more generic garbage missions than actually engage in story and content developed and designed by other Trek fans.
The mob is here to rage, no matter how much better the new stuff is and how awefull the old was.
I say let them rage, the devs are ignoring them anyway, so should the rest of us.
Apparently the crowd would rather do a million more generic garbage missions than actually engage in story and content developed and designed by other Trek fans.
The mob is here to rage, no matter how much better the new stuff is and how awefull the old was.
I say let them rage, the devs are ignoring them anyway, so should the rest of us.
Your turning this into an either / or situation. I think people are upset that content(options) are being removed without any plans for replacement. Foundry itself needs love and better integration and hasn't been give any attention in years(okay some minor attention).
If this is the new philosophy here than nothing is safe. Not PvP, not certain queued missions ... It is a bad move to limit options even if those options are relatively inferior. This game badly needs more content NOT less.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Apparently the crowd would rather do a million more generic garbage missions than actually engage in story and content developed and designed by other Trek fans.
The mob is here to rage, no matter how much better the new stuff is and how awefull the old was.
I say let them rage, the devs are ignoring them anyway, so should the rest of us.
Unfortunately, the foundry sucks. Most of the foundry missions suck. A lot of those missions are worse than the quality of the exploration missions, yes the machine generated ones.
Baudl, removing 3700 missions in a content starved game like this is simply insane. Hell, doing it in any game at all is simply mind boggling. The system did not need removal. It needed reworking yes, better rewards, more variety etc but that could be added to make the system worth doing other than for accolades and titles.
Better rewards? Doable. Perhaps add some ec and dil rewards at the end, as well as a faction specific rep system that gives buffs to faction ship users and users of faction signature weapons.
Variety? Also doable. Add a flag to the foundry that when set by the author puts the mission up as a candidate for the exploration mission rotation. It then gets reviewed by volunteers and if it passes muster (I.e. is it really an exploration type mission) it is then added to the deck of exploration missions. Over time, as the number of fan made missions grows the number of machine made ones are cut. At the end of a foundry made exploration mission, a box pops up with the credits and "more missions by this author" as well as the "tips" jar. There you go, instant variety as well as more playthroughs and 'exposure' for the foundry authors.
What we want to avoid is the devs abusing the foundry as a tool to make other, unpaid, people do their job of content creation for them. Right now, the foundry is just some little abused dog which is just left in the corner and thrown the occasional scrap from time to time just so that it doesn't die. One foundry author who I know of, Kirksplat, has whined time after time that there isn't enough 'exposure' for their missions, and that the UI for the foundry is awful which makes it much harder to find the missions. Making the exploration worth playing as well as adding some of the foundry missions in to that mix would fix at least one of those problems and partially side step the other. What is not to like?
You know something that I've noticed? Every time someone says something about the foundry, one of the "1337" foundry authors comes along and is an utter a**hat to those who dare share their ideas about any changes to their precious foundry. Every. Single. Time.
Unfortunately, the foundry sucks. Most of the foundry missions suck. A lot of those missions are worse than the quality of the exploration missions, yes the machine generated ones.
Baudl, removing 3700 missions in a content starved game like this is simply insane. Hell, doing it in any game at all is simply mind boggling.
No, it is not insane. You simply look at the numbers of what people play, and if you see your 3,700 missions are hardly used compared to the "limited" content of the game, you know that you have some dead weight. And if you can't make it work, you should consider what it costs you to keep it. Cryptic did that, and decided it cost more than it brought them. You don't agree, but you have never seen their numbers, and you never will, so we're only guessing here.
Content isn't simply about counting the number of missions. If content is really bad, it can hurt your game more than it helps.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Unfortunately, the foundry sucks. Most of the foundry missions suck. A lot of those missions are worse than the quality of the exploration missions, yes the machine generated ones.
hard to argue with an opinion...i hope you know that your statement is your opinion and not reality, do you?
Foundry itself needs love and better integration and hasn't been give any attention in years(okay some minor attention).
what exactly would you call, binding foundry to the new clusters, other than "better integration", just curious?
Also what you call "minor attention" is a constant stream of assets added to the library. I mean, you can admit that you never were interested into foundry for whatever reason, but then please don't make it look like you actually know anything about it.
i'll follow my own statement and let you people rage on about the great loss of exploration...which wasn't exploration to begin with and nobody played.
No, it is not insane. You simply look at the numbers of what people play, and if you see your 3,700 missions are hardly used compared to the "limited" content of the game, you know that you have some dead weight.
Based on that logic, why do we still have PvP? :rolleyes:
In terms of exploration, the beginning is great, but the end seems too focused on internal backstories. Just my opinion, though - it's a great all-around mission.
Anyway, I will post a suggestion for a system to replace the Star Clusters in general discussion later today.
The foundry is a great idea but become cruch for the devs. "We trim the bush let them make it spout." F that man I for a game to be a game and give me something to do in it. I do not think that is asking over much.
New crafting whats that running 36K hours? crummy thinking
shrink the map? crummy thinking
The hand at the tiller is poor but still gets paid.
If the guy running this worked for you, would you keep him working?
hard to argue with an opinion...i hope you know that your statement is your opinion and not reality, do you?
Yes, it is an opinion just how yours is also an opinion, no? So are you going to actually consider my suggestion, or just dismiss it out of hand just like every one else?
Additionally, do you have any ideas? Because I sure as hell don't see or hear any.
what exactly would you call, binding foundry to the new clusters, other than "better integration", just curious?
Also what you call "minor attention" is a constant stream of assets added to the library. I mean, you can admit that you never were interested into foundry for whatever reason, but then please don't make it look like you actually know anything about it.
To be honest, I was never interested in the foundry because like the exploration system it is not worth playing. Simple as. My suggestions would make it so that they may be worth playing, thereby getting the foundry authors the exposure they desire.
I call it better integration, because right now anything other than deletion is better that what we already have. If we tie selected foundry missions into the exploration system and make both systems worth playing (i.e. the carrot) it would provide exposure for the authors plus rewards and something different for the players.
What is not to like about that?
That is "minor attention" compared to the amount of work the devs would have to put in to replace the whole system. Why should they put in all that work when they could combine 2 already in game systems plus a few other parts in order to really raise the average quality of the game?
i'll follow my own statement and let you people rage on about the great loss of exploration...which wasn't exploration to begin with and nobody played.
Nobody used them because they were not worth using. My idea is simply to make it worth using, while bringing in foundry content to spice it up. It is a win win. How can you argue against that?
EDIT
I must admit, I have played some good foundry content. There is some really great stuff to be found there.
Comments
wat
I had done tens of these missions before I figured out what BOff powers were, and that I should click them. Also, hard drives are enormous these days - and cheap. I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.
I am really confused by your post here. Ok, so yes, the Foundry has limits and we have to railroad you mostly, but the exploration missions you gravitated towards... talk about railroading, sheesh.
The foundry can do more than they do. The foundry can give you choices and branching dialogues and alternate objectives. I can't recall a single exploration cluster mission that did anything as complex as some of the choices that can be made in a Foundry mission.
Yet, you gravitated towards a section of the game where you were most railroaded to kill 5/5, scan 5/5, or press F 5/5 times. So, how is it that you gravitated toward the exploration clusters because they seemed more Star Trek, yet you critique the feel and look of Foundry, when it surpasses the feel and look of the actual exploration content you gravitated toward? An average Foundry railroads you far less than an average exploration cluster mission.
Er, sorry, confused. How were they the closest thing to exploring the stars, compared to some kind of hand-crafted Foundry exploration mission?
It was because I didn't know exactly what would happen. Granted, it was a random roll between 5 scans, 5 baddies, 3 scans and a handful of baddies, aid the planet with a random replicator item, etc, but I didn't know which one it would be.
I'm not saying that the foundry is worse, I'm saying that I would rather let the mission be random. Given that Cryptic will only be adding Foundry doors, it's just not as rewarding to me in terms of exploration. In terms of quality and story, yes, but not exploration.
Ideally, if the Foundry really is to replace clusters, we would have randomly selected Foundry missions tagged 'EXPLORATION - X CLUSTER' by their respective authors that we could enter by flying up to each mission's respective map location and selecting an 'explore strange new worlds' option. Foundry authors making these missions would be allowed to place a maximum of 3-5 anomalies on each of their exploration mission maps.
That would combine the quantity and quality of the Foundry with the randomness that makes exploration fun and a (albeit inferior without the star cluster maps themselves) source of crafting materials.
It would need heavy quality control and would start off with very few missions, but over time it (depending on the whim of the authors and the longevity of this game) could become the kind of exploration a Star Trek game should have.
OK, maybe I understand it a little better. So, if you had the following to choose from in a foundry list, it would feel random as well
"Explore Unknown System 4323"
"Explore Unknown System 30Z1"
"Explore Unknown System 4049"
The mission descriptions would be vague, and even with a more descriptive foundry mission, you don't know exactly what will happen, do you?
If you get a chance, please check out my spotlight "Relics." It's about a 35 minute mission, but I consider it to be a Foundry exploration-style mission. Please compare it to a roll of a die to see if, "Gee, will I get the 2 minute aid the planet or the 15 minute kill 5/5 ship mobs?" Please tell me if it feels like exploration. Sorry for the self-promotion.
Don't forget to pick up the Investigate Officer Reports. This experiment with Foundry exploration will probably grant you close to 4k dilithium.
I think you're getting it.
I'm almost positive I've played 'Relics' at least twice, but it was a while ago so I will play it again tomorrow morning to make sure.;)
Really, what is the difference if Cryptic makes the content or the community does? You wouldn't know the difference (i take that back, you would notice the difference in quality immediately). How many people fly around in the Odyssey, that was a fans creation. And now when you go to those sections of star clusters you can play missions that are completely and truley random, ever changing, never the same, always different, even wierd, and constantly new. You don't even have to do a thing but go to that point in space and see whats new.
And to be honest, having star clusters off to the side of the map was a little silly anyway. Makes more sense that a nebula can be found in the space between systems.
According to Cryptic's OWN employees, they would be:
1- Easy to navigate maps so people don't get lost.
2- SUPER HIGH QUALITY missions, as that is their standard.
3- Very low on the load times so as to not make patch DLs really take a long time.
Seems that according to them, they'd be awesomesauce.
You'll see the results in due time.
I can't fathom how you support the removal of content though. I mean, this stuff could be left in the game, to the people who do like it and ALL OF THE OTHER EXTRA THINGS COULD ALSO BE ADDED and the game would improve by moving forward.
But you're more in favor of removing stuff.
It boggles the mind.
Snoggy is so funny sometimes.
Y'know, the more I see posts like this, the more that I'm starting to understand some of the thoughts that are going through people's heads with this.
There's a massive sentimental value being lost by losing the Star Clusters. The Star Clusters are old, the system is broken, it's been gathering dust for who knows how long, but it's there. You've had it for a long time and you just can't image it being taken away. It's like an old car whose AC is broken and the engine makes a strange noise and there's an odd smell. You should give it up and get something new, but you don't want to.
But, something has to give. And in the end, the old thing is being taken away
It's being taken away for those reasons, but in your mind, you can't fathom that idea of it being taken away. Even more, you can't fathom the idea of nothing replacing it. Like a dying tree in your front yard - you cut it down, but decide that putting up a new one is too much of an hassle, so you leave the land be.
You're left with a massive hole where something should be. And that infuriates you.
"Why did you take it away? It was still good!" "*I* still messed with it! Who cares about everyone else?!" "I don't care if it made things look bad! It didn't look bad to me!"
And thus, you start to rationalize it to blame something outlandish. It's greed. It's incompetence. It's to push something that you yourself don't use. If it doesn't benefit you, then obviously, the decision was wrong.
And thus, the bewildering statements of those who can accept it or have no cares whatsoever.
It seems I have to post this yet again for a fifth time:
I USE THE SYSTEM.
It is one of my favorite things to do in the game.
I use it to role play. I've got a character who is made to be one of the Strekkellans. The entire story spins out of one of the missions from the B'Tran cluster.
I added to the missions. I wrote about them in my Captain's Log. (That's another old, old piece of the game, that I wonder how many people even are aware exists right now?)
So no, the system wasn't broken. It wasn't gathering dust.
I'd do at least a dozen of these missions per week across two sometimes three characters. I didn't do them for the dilithium (I got my dil cap from the voth battlezone and STFs). I didn't do them for crafting materials. I did them for ... get this ... FUN.
(ALSO, a lot of people keep talking about the broken maps. Since I did a lot more of these missions than some of you, I feel now might be a good time to share that I'd get a broken map less than 10% of the time. And would just drop the mission and grab another one. Took all of 2 minutes to deal with the dreaded broken map).
Removing them takes away one of my favorite aspects of gameplay. And leaves me with no replacement.
Removing them ruins my immersion. Ruins the Star Trek part of Star Trek Online. And ruins the backstory for two of my characters, one of them my main.
This isn't nostalgia for me. This is Cryptic taking a giant dump on me playing this game.
You want nostalgia?
This is nostalgia.
So no, when I say my mind is boggled, it truly is. There's people here who don't play this content. Which is fine. But they're in support of its removal. For no good reason. (And make no mistake, none of the reasons offered in Dev blog 29 are good reasons to remove part of the game, especially in this game which has a long 4 year history of being unable to deliver quality content in any sort of consistent manner).
It's ok though. Because this does set a precedent. And sometime in the next 6 to 12 months they'll "revamp" something else (maybe STFs) and remove something YOU actually like to play.
And then you'll get it.
Especially when some other poster says "I'm ok with them removing the Borg STFs. They were boring, and I never played them anyways."
Good luck with that.
note to self: OK this guy is serious. kill 5/5 mobs pleases a player. Please go kill 5 of 5 <insert random enemy.>
Tbh ... "Surface Tension" was :
- Speak to 5/5 Npcs
- Shoot 5/5 Space Mobs
- Shoot 5/5 Ground Mobs
- Shoot 5/5 Space Mobs
- Speak to 5/5 Npcs
+ lots of fancy cutscenes ...
Removing a giant part of the game for me is a terrible idea.
How does removing the game aspects make it better?
I extensively do the exploration missions and have for years.
While I understand that the genesis program to recreate random worlds is terrible.....replacing it with nothing is absolutely ridiculous.
To anyone who says killing 5/5 enemies is boring....you ever play an MMo before? they all do it.....Those of us who have played since Eq1, Myself included, know this is the way things are.
To me....a long time customer it feels like you are taking away content that I moderately enjoy and rewarding me with nothing.
How is this asking me to return each week. and be excited?
In terms of exploration, the beginning is great, but the end seems too focused on internal backstories. Just my opinion, though - it's a great all-around mission.
Anyway, I will post a suggestion for a system to replace the Star Clusters in general discussion later today.
This guy gets Exploration Clusters.
Never mind that a system is in place that can make in-depth and creative replacement for this feature with vastly more potential for exploration and first-contact except for the fact that apparently all the pissed off people are too lazy to utilize it.
This. Kudos to snoggymack22 and all the other explorers out there
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Umm, the guy was actually re-phrasing a line from Star Wars Ep 3...
Apparently the crowd would rather do a million more generic garbage missions than actually engage in story and content developed and designed by other Trek fans.
The mob is here to rage, no matter how much better the new stuff is and how awefull the old was.
I say let them rage, the devs are ignoring them anyway, so should the rest of us.
Srsly it's just a grinder after 50. If there were more to do I'd have gone lifetime but...
Your turning this into an either / or situation. I think people are upset that content(options) are being removed without any plans for replacement. Foundry itself needs love and better integration and hasn't been give any attention in years(okay some minor attention).
If this is the new philosophy here than nothing is safe. Not PvP, not certain queued missions ... It is a bad move to limit options even if those options are relatively inferior. This game badly needs more content NOT less.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Unfortunately, the foundry sucks. Most of the foundry missions suck. A lot of those missions are worse than the quality of the exploration missions, yes the machine generated ones.
Baudl, removing 3700 missions in a content starved game like this is simply insane. Hell, doing it in any game at all is simply mind boggling. The system did not need removal. It needed reworking yes, better rewards, more variety etc but that could be added to make the system worth doing other than for accolades and titles.
Better rewards? Doable. Perhaps add some ec and dil rewards at the end, as well as a faction specific rep system that gives buffs to faction ship users and users of faction signature weapons.
Variety? Also doable. Add a flag to the foundry that when set by the author puts the mission up as a candidate for the exploration mission rotation. It then gets reviewed by volunteers and if it passes muster (I.e. is it really an exploration type mission) it is then added to the deck of exploration missions. Over time, as the number of fan made missions grows the number of machine made ones are cut. At the end of a foundry made exploration mission, a box pops up with the credits and "more missions by this author" as well as the "tips" jar. There you go, instant variety as well as more playthroughs and 'exposure' for the foundry authors.
What we want to avoid is the devs abusing the foundry as a tool to make other, unpaid, people do their job of content creation for them. Right now, the foundry is just some little abused dog which is just left in the corner and thrown the occasional scrap from time to time just so that it doesn't die. One foundry author who I know of, Kirksplat, has whined time after time that there isn't enough 'exposure' for their missions, and that the UI for the foundry is awful which makes it much harder to find the missions. Making the exploration worth playing as well as adding some of the foundry missions in to that mix would fix at least one of those problems and partially side step the other. What is not to like?
You know something that I've noticed? Every time someone says something about the foundry, one of the "1337" foundry authors comes along and is an utter a**hat to those who dare share their ideas about any changes to their precious foundry. Every. Single. Time.
No, it is not insane. You simply look at the numbers of what people play, and if you see your 3,700 missions are hardly used compared to the "limited" content of the game, you know that you have some dead weight. And if you can't make it work, you should consider what it costs you to keep it. Cryptic did that, and decided it cost more than it brought them. You don't agree, but you have never seen their numbers, and you never will, so we're only guessing here.
Content isn't simply about counting the number of missions. If content is really bad, it can hurt your game more than it helps.
hard to argue with an opinion...i hope you know that your statement is your opinion and not reality, do you?
what exactly would you call, binding foundry to the new clusters, other than "better integration", just curious?
Also what you call "minor attention" is a constant stream of assets added to the library. I mean, you can admit that you never were interested into foundry for whatever reason, but then please don't make it look like you actually know anything about it.
i'll follow my own statement and let you people rage on about the great loss of exploration...which wasn't exploration to begin with and nobody played.
Based on that logic, why do we still have PvP? :rolleyes:
Thanks for playing!
New crafting whats that running 36K hours? crummy thinking
shrink the map? crummy thinking
The hand at the tiller is poor but still gets paid.
If the guy running this worked for you, would you keep him working?
Yes, it is an opinion just how yours is also an opinion, no? So are you going to actually consider my suggestion, or just dismiss it out of hand just like every one else?
Additionally, do you have any ideas? Because I sure as hell don't see or hear any.
To be honest, I was never interested in the foundry because like the exploration system it is not worth playing. Simple as. My suggestions would make it so that they may be worth playing, thereby getting the foundry authors the exposure they desire.
I call it better integration, because right now anything other than deletion is better that what we already have. If we tie selected foundry missions into the exploration system and make both systems worth playing (i.e. the carrot) it would provide exposure for the authors plus rewards and something different for the players.
What is not to like about that?
That is "minor attention" compared to the amount of work the devs would have to put in to replace the whole system. Why should they put in all that work when they could combine 2 already in game systems plus a few other parts in order to really raise the average quality of the game?
Nobody used them because they were not worth using. My idea is simply to make it worth using, while bringing in foundry content to spice it up. It is a win win. How can you argue against that?
EDIT
I must admit, I have played some good foundry content. There is some really great stuff to be found there.