There really wasn't any exploration in STO to kill. Cluster missions were just randomly generated missions where your boffs would fall through the map while you scan for plants that look oddly like walls or columns. Or Borg attacking a colony looking for relics from their third dynasty. They were bad and I'm honestly amazed it took them this long to take them out.
Yeah. Exploration as we knew it from Star Trek never existed in STO. I remember trying the "Exploration" missions when STO released with my Fed, and after a few turns, ignored them altogether.
What they should have as far as exploration are more episodes and fine tune the foundry as to be able to create more player generated material. It's been since 2010 that STO has been in operation but PWE only just recently took over and have done more than when it was under Atari and Cryptic.
If you're going to remove "exploration" missions than at least focus more on writing and developing more episodes. To have the same episodes for the past couple of years and only release new material when you are doing an expansion is a travesty. This makes for poor game play and eventually disinterest in the game.
The Foundry is also another problem as it's to complicated to work with and it constantly has tech issues that cause for it to stop working.
Revamping is a good idea as long as it doesn't take away to much, but when you start removing content with already limited options, than Houston we have a problem.
Fair to say the exploration system was just a placeholder until they had time to develop the real system.
That's not true at all. The Genesis system was something they much heralded during alpha and beta. It's something DStahl himself worked on before becoming top dog. The exploration system was meant to be a new innovation in MMORPGs.
....What else are they going to have us do in the Delta Quadrant? Get from point A to B in the least time possible? There's 7 years of Voyager that say "**** that ****, let's see what these folks are up to."
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I agree that an exploration revamp is needed, but all the whining about the clusters is bugging me. They were crappy, slapped together autogenerated missions where a player can "explore unknown star system" to meet people who say, "Starfleet, we've been waiting on you for those supplies you promised."
Those missions should be embarrassing to a dev. Those clusters are awful. Removing TRIBBLE content because it was added for dumb reasons is OK with me. It adds polish to the game.
If it jars you that this game no longer has genuine exploration, I truly wonder what game you have been playing, unless you're talking about Foundry.
"Make first contact," followed by scan 5/5 rocks does not equal exploration. I am glad to see that content go, unless I am somehow wanting to find a console stuck in a cave wall that refers to itself as a transporter pad.
PS. This change may mean that for the first time in 4 years, I'll try to go to Beta Ursae and not get "Are you ready to warp to Delta Volanis Captain?"
The Star Cluster missions have been removed in the new crafting revamp.
This sucks.
One of the top 5 favorite things for me to do was use the exploration system. I had my own story revolving around the B'Tran system. I mean this goes allllll the way back to my first level capped toon after launch (so roughly a few weeks after launch). Who is an alien designed to look just like a strekkelan. It's an overarching theme between four of my characters.
And they're just getting rid of the whole system.
I'm stunned.
There's no real reason to get rid of content. None. I know it's not the most engaging content for some. But for me it was one of my favorite parts of STO.
Given that we know where Expansion 2 is taking us (the Delta Quadrant), I would say that a revamp of exploration is almost bound to be included. However, it also seems pretty obvious that the existing Star Clusters are being removed now, rather than when the revamp is released, because they are an easy source for players to rack up crafting materials. The new crafting system on Tribble is yet another example of an existing system being slowed down with time gates and dilithium costs, so if players were able to grab as many free resources as they like, they'd get through the system faster. That's the only reason I can think of for removing the Star Clusters before their replacement is ready.
If it was really about mission quality, why are the Patrol missions still in the game? They're basically exactly the same set up as the cluster missions, just pre set to each planet. Only real difference is, no anomalies to scan for crafting rewards.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Given that we know where Expansion 2 is taking us (the Delta Quadrant), I would say that a revamp of exploration is almost bound to be included. However, it also seems pretty obvious that the existing Star Clusters are being removed now, rather than when the revamp is released, because they are an easy source for players to rack up crafting materials. The new crafting system on Tribble is yet another example of an existing system being slowed down with time gates and dilithium costs, so if players were able to grab as many free resources as they like, they'd get through the system faster. That's the only reason I can think of for removing the Star Clusters before their replacement is ready.
If it was really about mission quality, why are the Patrol missions still in the game? They're basically exactly the same set up as the cluster missions, just pre set to each planet. Only real difference is, no anomalies to scan for crafting rewards.
exploration has/had alot less differences. and the trading minigame is alot different from get 10 of x, which just so happen to be things you get from anywhere. and there is nothing like herding Gekli, or mediating a dispute between Acamarian Sovereign and a Scavenger clan... in fact the differences between the two are rather large. patrol are a good deal better done and don't hide the limited nature behind "random generated" nonsense. in fact anyone who claims all trek is gone should really play the patrol more. granted it's is still limited but it's 4-5 missions not 3. in fact with us going to the Delta Quadrant there is alot more room for this type of mission.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
exploration has/had alot less differences. and the trading minigame is alot different from get 10 of x, which just so happen to be things you get from anywhere. and there is nothing like herding Gekli, or mediating a dispute between Acamarian Sovereign and a Scavenger clan... in fact the differences between the two are rather large. patrol are a good deal better done and don't hide the limited nature behind "random generated" nonsense. in fact anyone who claims all trek is gone should really play the patrol more. granted it's is still limited but it's 4-5 missions not 3. in fact with us going to the Delta Quadrant there is alot more room for this type of mission.
I'm not talking about the Tau Dewa Sector Patrol mission, I'm talking about the sort of missions you get when you fly up to a planet on the Sector Map, and it says, "Patrol X System." If you go in, you're given a mission that usually involves scanning five things, or killing five mobs, or both. They used to have wrapper missions given out by Captain Sulu on ESD, but they retired the wrappers and kept the individual missions.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
and there is nothing like herding Gekli, or mediating a dispute between Acamarian Sovereign and a Scavenger clan... in fact the differences between the two are rather large. patrol are a good deal better done and don't hide the limited nature behind "random generated" nonsense.
which are still in the game (since 2010) when you know where to look, but were removed from the "Mission Log" ... again exact same Level of Quality (Scan 5 Samples, Shoot 3 Waves etc) ...
I wouldn't doubt that they took star clusters out to make way for a better exploration system.
I sure hope so ... but I'll rather expect a new Adventure Zone tied in with some Rep Grind(s) in Exp. 2, to manage my expectations ... Exploration Revamp in the Delta Quadrant might be the "obvious" choice, but that's not Cryptics modus operandi ... they removed other things before, without replacing them ...
....What else are they going to have us do in the Delta Quadrant? Get from point A to B in the least time possible? There's 7 years of Voyager that say "**** that ****, let's see what these folks are up to."
Shoot new Iconian Patsy XY, in next Adventure Zone ZX, to get through Reputation XZ
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I don't see it as the death of exploration, just the death of an embarrassingly outdated system to make way for a much needed revamp.
"This colony belongs to the Borg! You have no business here Starfleet!" :P
Even funnier (for me) was when some randomly generated alien race would announce, "Prepare to die, Starfleet! We are the [species], and we are the mightiest warriors in the galaxy!" Only to get blown out of the water so fast I don't even bother to record their name in my log.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
which are still in the game (since 2010) when you know where to look, but were removed from the "Mission Log" ... again exact same Level of Quality (Scan 5 Samples, Shoot 3 Waves etc) ...
wait... those exist I had no clue. well now I've made a idiot of myself for the day I'm go hide somewhere now.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I've always had a problem with planets, containing evolved species, in a star cluster and especially a nebula. I mean, those aren't exactly the most cozy of living environments...assuming life even has a chance to evolve in the middle of stars being born and dying.
If it was really about mission quality, why are the Patrol missions still in the game? They're basically exactly the same set up as the cluster missions, just pre set to each planet. Only real difference is, no anomalies to scan for crafting rewards.
IMHO, Patrol missions would be a nice add-on to exploration. So instead of exploring clusters, you are exploring known solar systems. After all, how many times in Star Trek they encountered oddities within Federation space? And the Tier 1 patrols could be turned into a type of Exploration Tutorial (from a storyline perspective, an "evaluation run").
I hope the July 3 announcement details some plan to revamp exploration.
I understand the missions were of poor quality - last night I fought some Borg OUTLAWS in the B'Tran cluster, that the Borg government had disavowed! Some of the mix-and-match combinations made for gut splitting laughter from time to time. But - they were content. They were easy, which is good for new players, and some of the planets looked really nice.
Also, if they are removing the "aid the planet" missions, that's ANOTHER hit to the use of commodities. Anyone who ever bought (or won) a cell ship or tuffli is probably upset by the changes to remove these clusters. Yay - crafting without going to Memory Alpha - oh wait. Yay - bridge invites for Fleet mates to get doff assignments - oh wait. Yay - cheap commodities for rep projects (no longer), aid the planet - oh wait. Guess that just leaves Fleet projects, doff assignments, and helping that freighter near K7 for commodities.
While the missions were poor quality, going into those clusters to scan and run doff assignments, and an exploration chain for some easy dilithium felt like I was in Starfleet. I could go farm anomalies with a science ship - heck run the whole content in an Oberth for a challenge. More Starfleet than killing Romulan scientists because an Undine Admiral said so. More Stafleet than shooting dinosaurs with lasers.
While they weren't terribly random, they were more random than saving that starbase with 200 people on it for the 30th time, or helping the Deferi fight off the Breen - AGAIN. I didn't run them often, but they were a break from the repetitive end game.
Also, removing the farmable nature of anomalies pretty much ruins the possibility of seeing crafters flying around in science ships crafting gear as their role in the game. Instead we'll see more FAW cruisers and antiproton escorts saving starbases for anomalies, and people grinding the dilithium to use as the dilithium input.
Of course pigs can fly. It's a matter of applying sufficient thrust....
Flawed as it is, I will miss the current exploration system. It's one of the few things in the game that gives you the sense of "exploring strange new worlds". I do hope we get a new exploration system at some point.
I guess that means the first contact missions will be gone too, since they were also set in the exploration clusters?
There really wasn't any exploration in STO to kill. Cluster missions were just randomly generated missions where your boffs would fall through the map while you scan for plants that look oddly like walls or columns. Or Borg attacking a colony looking for relics from their third dynasty. They were bad and I'm honestly amazed it took them this long to take them out.
dont forget the mysteriously floating buildings where you'd find Borg ransacking a planet.
Wake up, copper-top! Take the blue pill, or not, but we are all merely mobile wallets for Cryptic. THEY DON"T CARE what we want, they care about more money for less work. :mad:
They may find that they reached the tipping point sooner than they planned...
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Wake up, copper-top! Take the blue pill, or not, but we are all merely mobile wallets for Cryptic. THEY DON"T CARE what we want, they care about more money for less work. :mad:
They may find that they reached the tipping point sooner than they planned...
You'd think that procedurally generated content would be less work wouldn't you?
Anyway, the worst part for me is that there's less hope for the future. I always believed that if Cryptic just revisited the clusters for a bit, then things would improve. Adding in new mission types and environments couldn't have been any harder than doing the first lot.
At launch I'd hoped that they'd just do a little here and a little there; it would be an awesome feature by now if they had. Since launch, I kept asking after the exploration revamp the devs occasionally mentioned; and every time they said it was still something they were wanting to do someday, my faith was restored and I could go on patiently waiting for it.
Now I've lost all faith. I've heard a couple of vague assurances that exploration will return someday in some form; but how long are we supposed to wait for that? A year? 2 years? 3? Until the servers shut down? And in the meantime we'll have nothing, as far as we know.
I've heard it all before. I've been waiting for years already. I don't believe it any more Cryptic.
In fact, the only glimmer of hope I see left, is what they aren't saying.
Captain Smirk went on quite a bit about NDAs when he was kind of not answering my question about whether or not there would be a replacement exploration system in the livestream; and Hawk has completely ignored all questions regarding the same, despite otherwise being quite chatty right now (which I appreciate by the way Hawk, thanks for taking the time to address people's crafting concerns). There really could be something coming that they just can't tell us about; but it's impossible to draw any comfort from people refusing to answer your concerns (or so I find), so it's a really faint glimmer of hope.
Comments
Yeah. Exploration as we knew it from Star Trek never existed in STO. I remember trying the "Exploration" missions when STO released with my Fed, and after a few turns, ignored them altogether.
Instead, I'm out hunting down Borg from their ancient lost 7th dynasty or some such...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I'm about ready to just give up on this game completely.
EDIT: LOL, good job @iconians and @arilouskiff.
If you're going to remove "exploration" missions than at least focus more on writing and developing more episodes. To have the same episodes for the past couple of years and only release new material when you are doing an expansion is a travesty. This makes for poor game play and eventually disinterest in the game.
The Foundry is also another problem as it's to complicated to work with and it constantly has tech issues that cause for it to stop working.
Revamping is a good idea as long as it doesn't take away to much, but when you start removing content with already limited options, than Houston we have a problem.
That's not true at all. The Genesis system was something they much heralded during alpha and beta. It's something DStahl himself worked on before becoming top dog. The exploration system was meant to be a new innovation in MMORPGs.
The Iron Islands have a saying ...
HAHAHAHA... Oh, my god stop!! You are too funny.
....What else are they going to have us do in the Delta Quadrant? Get from point A to B in the least time possible? There's 7 years of Voyager that say "**** that ****, let's see what these folks are up to."
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Those missions should be embarrassing to a dev. Those clusters are awful. Removing TRIBBLE content because it was added for dumb reasons is OK with me. It adds polish to the game.
If it jars you that this game no longer has genuine exploration, I truly wonder what game you have been playing, unless you're talking about Foundry.
"Make first contact," followed by scan 5/5 rocks does not equal exploration. I am glad to see that content go, unless I am somehow wanting to find a console stuck in a cave wall that refers to itself as a transporter pad.
PS. This change may mean that for the first time in 4 years, I'll try to go to Beta Ursae and not get "Are you ready to warp to Delta Volanis Captain?"
This sucks.
One of the top 5 favorite things for me to do was use the exploration system. I had my own story revolving around the B'Tran system. I mean this goes allllll the way back to my first level capped toon after launch (so roughly a few weeks after launch). Who is an alien designed to look just like a strekkelan. It's an overarching theme between four of my characters.
And they're just getting rid of the whole system.
I'm stunned.
There's no real reason to get rid of content. None. I know it's not the most engaging content for some. But for me it was one of my favorite parts of STO.
Ugh.
If it was really about mission quality, why are the Patrol missions still in the game? They're basically exactly the same set up as the cluster missions, just pre set to each planet. Only real difference is, no anomalies to scan for crafting rewards.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
exploration has/had alot less differences. and the trading minigame is alot different from get 10 of x, which just so happen to be things you get from anywhere. and there is nothing like herding Gekli, or mediating a dispute between Acamarian Sovereign and a Scavenger clan... in fact the differences between the two are rather large. patrol are a good deal better done and don't hide the limited nature behind "random generated" nonsense. in fact anyone who claims all trek is gone should really play the patrol more. granted it's is still limited but it's 4-5 missions not 3. in fact with us going to the Delta Quadrant there is alot more room for this type of mission.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I'm not talking about the Tau Dewa Sector Patrol mission, I'm talking about the sort of missions you get when you fly up to a planet on the Sector Map, and it says, "Patrol X System." If you go in, you're given a mission that usually involves scanning five things, or killing five mobs, or both. They used to have wrapper missions given out by Captain Sulu on ESD, but they retired the wrappers and kept the individual missions.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
You're mixing up "Tau Dewa Patrol" with these :
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Kei_System_Patrol
which are still in the game (since 2010) when you know where to look, but were removed from the "Mission Log" ... again exact same Level of Quality (Scan 5 Samples, Shoot 3 Waves etc) ...
I sure hope so ... but I'll rather expect a new Adventure Zone tied in with some Rep Grind(s) in Exp. 2, to manage my expectations ... Exploration Revamp in the Delta Quadrant might be the "obvious" choice, but that's not Cryptics modus operandi ... they removed other things before, without replacing them ...
Shoot new Iconian Patsy XY, in next Adventure Zone ZX, to get through Reputation XZ
Even funnier (for me) was when some randomly generated alien race would announce, "Prepare to die, Starfleet! We are the [species], and we are the mightiest warriors in the galaxy!" Only to get blown out of the water so fast I don't even bother to record their name in my log.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
wait... those exist I had no clue. well now I've made a idiot of myself for the day I'm go hide somewhere now.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
IMHO, Patrol missions would be a nice add-on to exploration. So instead of exploring clusters, you are exploring known solar systems. After all, how many times in Star Trek they encountered oddities within Federation space? And the Tier 1 patrols could be turned into a type of Exploration Tutorial (from a storyline perspective, an "evaluation run").
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I understand the missions were of poor quality - last night I fought some Borg OUTLAWS in the B'Tran cluster, that the Borg government had disavowed! Some of the mix-and-match combinations made for gut splitting laughter from time to time. But - they were content. They were easy, which is good for new players, and some of the planets looked really nice.
Also, if they are removing the "aid the planet" missions, that's ANOTHER hit to the use of commodities. Anyone who ever bought (or won) a cell ship or tuffli is probably upset by the changes to remove these clusters. Yay - crafting without going to Memory Alpha - oh wait. Yay - bridge invites for Fleet mates to get doff assignments - oh wait. Yay - cheap commodities for rep projects (no longer), aid the planet - oh wait. Guess that just leaves Fleet projects, doff assignments, and helping that freighter near K7 for commodities.
While the missions were poor quality, going into those clusters to scan and run doff assignments, and an exploration chain for some easy dilithium felt like I was in Starfleet. I could go farm anomalies with a science ship - heck run the whole content in an Oberth for a challenge. More Starfleet than killing Romulan scientists because an Undine Admiral said so. More Stafleet than shooting dinosaurs with lasers.
While they weren't terribly random, they were more random than saving that starbase with 200 people on it for the 30th time, or helping the Deferi fight off the Breen - AGAIN. I didn't run them often, but they were a break from the repetitive end game.
Also, removing the farmable nature of anomalies pretty much ruins the possibility of seeing crafters flying around in science ships crafting gear as their role in the game. Instead we'll see more FAW cruisers and antiproton escorts saving starbases for anomalies, and people grinding the dilithium to use as the dilithium input.
Again, I hope that July 3 brings good news.
Of course pigs can fly. It's a matter of applying sufficient thrust....
Flawed as it is, I will miss the current exploration system. It's one of the few things in the game that gives you the sense of "exploring strange new worlds". I do hope we get a new exploration system at some point.
I guess that means the first contact missions will be gone too, since they were also set in the exploration clusters?
On Tribble, Memory Alpha is currently closed. Do we know if this permanent? There are some missions set there (Taste of Home, Hostile Takeover, Shady Supplies, Family Ties, Quarantine), that aren't tied to crafting. Will we be losing those as well?
dont forget the mysteriously floating buildings where you'd find Borg ransacking a planet.
Wake up, copper-top! Take the blue pill, or not, but we are all merely mobile wallets for Cryptic. THEY DON"T CARE what we want, they care about more money for less work. :mad:
They may find that they reached the tipping point sooner than they planned...
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
You'd think that procedurally generated content would be less work wouldn't you?
Anyway, the worst part for me is that there's less hope for the future. I always believed that if Cryptic just revisited the clusters for a bit, then things would improve. Adding in new mission types and environments couldn't have been any harder than doing the first lot.
At launch I'd hoped that they'd just do a little here and a little there; it would be an awesome feature by now if they had. Since launch, I kept asking after the exploration revamp the devs occasionally mentioned; and every time they said it was still something they were wanting to do someday, my faith was restored and I could go on patiently waiting for it.
Now I've lost all faith. I've heard a couple of vague assurances that exploration will return someday in some form; but how long are we supposed to wait for that? A year? 2 years? 3? Until the servers shut down? And in the meantime we'll have nothing, as far as we know.
I've heard it all before. I've been waiting for years already. I don't believe it any more Cryptic.
In fact, the only glimmer of hope I see left, is what they aren't saying.
Captain Smirk went on quite a bit about NDAs when he was kind of not answering my question about whether or not there would be a replacement exploration system in the livestream; and Hawk has completely ignored all questions regarding the same, despite otherwise being quite chatty right now (which I appreciate by the way Hawk, thanks for taking the time to address people's crafting concerns). There really could be something coming that they just can't tell us about; but it's impossible to draw any comfort from people refusing to answer your concerns (or so I find), so it's a really faint glimmer of hope.