"To seek out new grinds and monetization ... boldly going where all F2P MMOs have gone before."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
July 3rd has come and gone, with absolutely no indication that there is any improvement coming to STO's exploration front.
When I said "the death of exploration," many of you thought I meant the 'death of the star clusters.' I meant it in a broader sense - maybe the clusters were absolute TRIBBLE, but at least they were there, at least we had exploration, even if it was in name only. Now it is gone, and without a replacement in sight, the very concept of exploration in STO is dead.
And all because it was a good source of anomalies.
P.S. If I was the kind of person who used profanity, this entire post would be made of asterisks.
My two cents, for whatever it's worth (probably a lot less than two cents)...
The Star Cluster content was garbage, and I've played them maybe once in the last year and a half. Removing them from the game is a good move.
I don't buy into any conspiracy theories about the missions being removed to somehow game the crafting system. We'll have to see how things work out to determine whether crafting materials are any easier or harder to come by once the changes are final.
While I'm okay with Cryptic removing this content before an alternative exploration system has been implemented, I do think it's important to do something that resembles exploration in the future (and I mean actively playable content, not doff missions). I don't know exactly what this might look like, but I agree with those who say it's something this game is lacking.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
What are the clusters doine that people want them removed so badly?
Lately? They haven't been a problem to me, personally, in any way.
Historically? Back when the B'Tran dailies were "must play" endgame content, I very nearly fell asleep at my keyboard (no exaggeration) on multiple occasions thanks to the stimulating "content" they delivered.
As to your second question, what they're doing is giving the game a bad name by presenting themselves to new players fairly early on in their gameplay. This is the same reason it was worthwhile to redo the tutorial - the beginning of the game needs to be appealing.
For what it's worth, I feel the same way about many of the Cardassian Space story missions. They're long and boring, and need to be either radically redone or removed from the game entirely.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Lately? They haven't been a problem to me, personally, in any way.
Historically? Back when the B'Tran dailies were "must play" endgame content, I very nearly fell asleep at my keyboard (no exaggeration) on multiple occasions thanks to the stimulating "content" they delivered.
As to your second question, what they're doing is giving the game a bad name by presenting themselves to new players fairly early on in their gameplay. This is the same reason it was worthwhile to redo the tutorial - the beginning of the game needs to be appealing.
For what it's worth, I feel the same way about many of the Cardassian Space story missions. They're long and boring, and need to be either radically redone or removed from the game entirely.
But yet again some people seem to miss the point that Star Trek is not just a spaceshooter on steroids...
some "boring" and time taking missions are needed to give the game a bit more of the Trek flare...Plus the fact that you can just avoid the clusters if you dont want togo there... even new players could just focus on episodes and patrols if they dont like to explore...
exploration can be boring... you should ask Kirk, Janeway , Picard and even Q....at the point were you agree to explore new locations youre willingly accepting borings days.. if not months at some times...Thats space Travel...and a Real captain would understand that =P
But yet again some people seem to miss the point that Star Trek is not just a spaceshooter on steroids...
some "boring" and time taking missions are needed to give the game a bit more of the Trek flare...Plus the fact that you can just avoid the clusters if you dont want togo there... even new players could just focus on episodes and patrols if they dont like to explore...
exploration can be boring... you should ask Kirk, Janeway , Picard and even Q....at the point were you agree to explore new locations youre willingly accepting borings days.. if not months at some times...Thats space Travel...and a Real captain would understand that =P
I said in my earlier post that I support the addition of additional exploration content in this game.
However, you will never find me advocating for the inclusion of intentionally boring content in a video game. :rolleyes:
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
They said it was taken out for good reasons... read that blog #29!
More stuff is coming, or some way to still get the items you need.
As for "exploration."
Guys, lets be honest, this game is painfully old. We all love the IP/universe/unique content ideas in the game... but its all dated, doesn't always work that well... and frankly is boring to play.
I think they can fix this, i think they can come up with new content of this category. I think that's what the deta Q and the gamma Q will become.
I don't know how they can do a good exploration with the current system. its complicated for sure.
But yet again some people seem to miss the point that Star Trek is not just a spaceshooter on steroids...
some "boring" and time taking missions are needed to give the game a bit more of the Trek flare...Plus the fact that you can just avoid the clusters if you dont want togo there... even new players could just focus on episodes and patrols if they dont like to explore...
exploration can be boring... you should ask Kirk, Janeway , Picard and even Q....at the point were you agree to explore new locations youre willingly accepting borings days.. if not months at some times...Thats space Travel...and a Real captain would understand that =P
Yeah, that's why the shows skipped the exploration parts, and jumped into the action, adventure parts.
Yeah, that's why the shows skipped the exploration parts, and jumped into the action, adventure parts.
Not exactly there are many episodes in the show that are " boring" or diplomatic only...one of them is the one with mergilum... or the solanae one...or all the covert missions where they investigate pre-warp cilvilisations... no pew pew.. but alot of talk...
but then again... you could always avoid the clusters...only because you dont like them dosent mean all people share this opinion
Arguing here is illogical since they are already want to remove them.. but still .. i think people should state their oppinion on this matter...
I love exploration. I really, truly do. Back when I played EVE, exploration is all I did. Back when I played WoW I had the entire map explored and was bombarded with world exploration achievements when they were added. I've walked the entire width and length of Vvardenfell, Skyrim, Cyrodiil... I've covered San Andreas in two separate games. I know Fallout games by heart. Exploration is what I do. Given the choice between exploration and combat, I'll much rather go exploring.
So with that in mind, what we currently have, the systems generated through Genesis, that's not exploration. We have thousands of procedurally generated missions featuring barren worlds, endless corridors, background info that makes zero sense, rehashed enemies that aren't a threat or even a challenge... To me, someone who adores exploration, nothing of value will be lost. In fact, I firmly believe that without the Genesis system, foundry authors will have a good reason to make their own, handcrafted exploration systems. Add lore to them, add proper locations, proper story.
As for exploration being the core of Trek, I'd say it's a part of the core. The real core is in facing a challenge and overcoming it while bettering oneself. Exploration is merely a tool to deliver those challenges.
Someone smarter then me said and he was right. That is all.
Guys, lets be honest, this game is painfully old. We all love the IP/universe/unique content ideas in the game... but its all dated, doesn't always work that well... and frankly is boring to play.
Ok, let's be really really honest here. The game just celebrated its fourth anniversary. Everquest is 4 times older. It celebrated its 16th anniversary.
Everquest TWO the sequel to Everquest is older than STO.
World of ******** s older than STO.
This game is not painfully old.
I think they can fix this, i think they can come up with new content of this category. I think that's what the deta Q and the gamma Q will become.
As stated in Dev Blog 29, they're not doing that. They're not revamping this system. They're not focusing on it in the expansion. Instead, they're tying exploration assets into the Foundry. That's the solution. The players now shoulder the burden.
While I'm okay with Cryptic removing this content before an alternative exploration system has been implemented, I do think it's important to do something that resembles exploration in the future (and I mean actively playable content, not doff missions). I don't know exactly what this might look like, but I agree with those who say it's something this game is lacking.
To repeat, per dev blog 29, there is no alternative exploration system coming.
It's been hitched into the foundry. That's the solution. Viola. Done. No new system coming down the pipeline. NOTHING that resembles exploration in the future.
So basically everyone who's happy that they scrapped this content, should be a little cautious going forward. As they've set the precedent that they can essentially remove content whole cloth and solve any issues about it by putting it all on the shoulders of the playerbase to deal with going forward.
When that design and development procedure starts to leak into aspects of gameplay that you DO like, it'll be far too late to prevent.
To repeat, per dev blog 29, there is no alternative exploration system coming.
It's been hitched into the foundry. That's the solution. Viola. Done. No new system coming down the pipeline. NOTHING that resembles exploration in the future.
So basically everyone who's happy that they scrapped this content, should be a little cautious going forward. As they've set the precedent that they can essentially remove content whole cloth and solve any issues about it by putting it all on the shoulders of the playerbase to deal with going forward.
When that design and development procedure starts to leak into aspects of gameplay that you DO like, it'll be far too late to prevent.
They didn't say anything about there not being a new exploration system coming, just that there's nothing yet. The Foundry thing may just be the current filler while they set something else up.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
They didn't say anything about there not being a new exploration system coming, just that there's nothing yet. The Foundry thing may just be the current filler while they set something else up.
/optimism
Still waiting on Terradome are ya?
I thought we were being "honest" in this thread.
They've solved the exploration problem, as they state in that blog, by tying it to the foundry.
There's a lockbox coming with the expansion. It's been datamined. There's no new faction. There's no new exploration.
There's most likely new reputation grinds though. You can infer that from what they posted all through the feedback process from when they revamped the trait system.
To repeat, per dev blog 29, there is no alternative exploration system coming.
It's been hitched into the foundry. That's the solution. Viola. Done. No new system coming down the pipeline. NOTHING that resembles exploration in the future.
Going to have to point to where the devs specifically say that there is no alternative exploration system is coming. The entire dev blog is just about the change to Exploration Clusters. The devs are usually cryptic about what the next major update will have. We had absolutely no idea that the Crafting Revamp and Exploration Cluster Removal happening in Season 9.5 until that first Season 9.5 Dev Blog. If Cryptic is working on an alternative exploration system, then we won't know about it until it is ready to hit Tribble or a couple of weeks before.
As far as the Foundry being the Exploration system, then it is not Exploration. It will be slightly better than the Genesis System, but that is not difficult considering how bad the Genesis System is.
Going to have to point to where the devs specifically say that there is no alternative exploration system is coming.
From the blog:
For those who will miss the opportunity to explore these particular locations, we will be adding doors to the Foundry so that player-created missions can make use of these settings. The limitless nature of the potential missions that can be created using the Foundry as well as the high quality of content that Foundry authors continue to deliver are both exactly in line with the original goals of Exploration Clusters.
While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO.
See that underlined part? That's them stating that this change is "exactly in line" with the original goals of exploration.
This is their solution.
Foundry = Exploration.
Now they can move on to making one new voice over mission every 6 months, and some new lockboxes.
Let me get this straight, the whole Exploration System is what keeps STO's overall quality from being improved??? I thought it is the ton of long standing bugs, errors, broken released versions of the game, Lack of the same Foundry tools being shared that Cryptic uses, and other things that makes the game seem Lower Quality the most?
The Exploration system IS Not Broken, it is just inconvenient for Cryptic to fix. . .
Lets take a tally of what we have lost, shall we?
We have Doff Chain missions where we can get blue and purple doffs over and over again. . . = GONE!
And what about the First Contact Missions? . . . = GONE!
Diplomatic Missions? . . . . = GONE!
And what about the fun of not knowing what kind of mission you will encounter until you go into each unexplored system. . . = GONE!
Oh and lets not forget about the 1,440 Dilithium for "Actually Exploring" 3 Unexplored Star Cluster systems. . . = GONE!
Also we have LOST 3 sectors to gain Doff Trade Missions that gain us Gamma Quadrant commodities. . . = GONE!
Now the New Bright Idea by Cryptic and PW is warp to a Point of light in space and "Pretend like we are Exploring It" and do all the doff missions produced from this magical Non-explorable point in space. . . = DUMB!
Talk about a totally dumb and NON- Star Trek game idea, Lets pretend we are "Explorers" but reduce the whole game to WAR!
When will you folks at Cryptic introduce a REAL Exploration system?
If you don't like the old one, because it didn't have enough alien races to meet and trade with and make friends with, non-aggression pacts with, bring into the Federation or the Empire, then. . .
Why not "Use your own Character Creator" to make some different species that we have not seen and ADD it to the existing Unexplored solar systems in the Unexplored Star Clusters and come up with some more cool missions that you can make randomly come up when we warp in?
The Only thing that I see as Broken in this case is PW's and Cryptic's commitment to creating true Star Trek Exploration Missions. And pawning that job off on the Foundry Creators who do a fantastic job with the SUB STANDARD tool set given by Cryptic, it just emphasizes the fact.
Sorry about the glass completely empty view point, but it just pains me to no end to see this kind of stuff happen to my favorite game. . .
So to recap:
1.- The Unexplored Sectors are taken out along with EVERYTHING that is truly about exploring and everything else that can be done in those sectors, including making dilithium. = Negative Dumb Points for the Game!
2.- It is being replaced with a single point of light that we warp to so we can get the doff missions we used to get IN THE UNEXPLORED SECTORS while we were there EXPLORING which was much more immersive. = More Negative Dumb Points for the Game. . .
3.- And finally The Dumbest Statement that will live on in Game infamy:"While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO."= The Most Negative Dumb Points Ever. . .
How does taking out part of the diversity of a game improve it's overall Quality?
Or could this be the real reason:
Their new Crafting system that is going to take more of our time, cost us more to gain less, perhaps cost Zen, (and I have 7 Top Level Crafters) But because the crafting system no longer relies on scanned particle traces, the unexplored star clusters are not needed for that purpose anymore.
So instead ofPW paying Cryptic to go in and enhance the Exploration System of those Star Clusters, to make Exploration better, and instead of paying Cryptic to remove all the particle scan sites, "They" are just going to take that part of the game out instead. Cheaper for them and we the players are told it is for our own good, to "improve overall quality". = LAME!
Can you imagine how it would sound to us if Ford Motor Company made that Same Exact Statement about removing all the back seats in all their new cars because those seats don't make Ford as much money as the 2 front seats? What would we think of Ford then?:mad:
I may be wrong about this but it sure seems to make business sense in light of all the resent information revealed about the new Crafting System. . . Thanks for your time and efforts in reading this!
What do you folks think this removal is "Really About"?
See that underlined part? That's them stating that this change is "exactly in line" with the original goals of exploration.
This is their solution.
Foundry = Exploration.
Now they can move on to making one new voice over mission every 6 months, and some new lockboxes.
Win-Win for them!
There is a difference between original goals of exploration and original goals of exploration clusters. Also goals change over the years. I certainly don't have the same goals as I did as a kid and STO doesn't have the same goals now as when it first came out. After all, I seriously doubt that Cryptic had the goals of Reputation grind and Lockboxes back in 2010.
From the dev blog, Cryptic is not creating an Exploration system through the Foundry system. If I fly to an Exploration Cluster, then I have to go to the Foundry screen and pick a mission for that Exploration Cluster. Exploration has to be random for it to be exploration. They would have to create a completely new system where a random Foundry mission is picked with preferably options to only select Foundry missions with certain tags like Borg, Klingon, non-combat, combat, space, ground, etc.
There was never exploration in STO. It was a box you flew around in with crappy missions built on a bad random generator.
Why are you people lamenting the loss of what was a terrible feature? It's not even like it has a legitimate niche like PvP - "exploration" was objectively bad. Get over it.
Let me get this straight, the whole Exploration System is what keeps STO's overall quality from being improved??? I thought it is the ton of long standing bugs, errors, broken released versions of the game, Lack of the same Foundry tools being shared that Cryptic uses, and other things that makes the game seem Lower Quality the most?
The Exploration system IS Not Broken, it is just inconvenient for Cryptic to fix. . .
Lets take a tally of what we have lost, shall we?
We have Doff Chain missions where we can get blue and purple doffs over and over again. . . = GONE!
And what about the First Contact Missions? . . . = GONE!
Diplomatic Missions? . . . . = GONE!
And what about the fun of not knowing what kind of mission you will encounter until you go into each unexplored system. . . = GONE!
Oh and lets not forget about the 1,440 Dilithium for "Actually Exploring" 3 Unexplored Star Cluster systems. . . = GONE!
Also we have LOST 3 sectors to gain Doff Trade Missions that gain us Gamma Quadrant commodities. . . = GONE!
Now the New Bright Idea by Cryptic and PW is warp to a Point of light in space and "Pretend like we are Exploring It" and do all the doff missions produced from this magical Non-explorable point in space. . . = DUMB!
Talk about a totally dumb and NON- Star Trek game idea, Lets pretend we are "Explorers" but reduce the whole game to WAR!
When will you folks at Cryptic introduce a REAL Exploration system?
If you don't like the old one, because it didn't have enough alien races to meet and trade with and make friends with, non-aggression pacts with, bring into the Federation or the Empire, then. . .
Why not "Use your own Character Creator" to make some different species that we have not seen and ADD it to the existing Unexplored solar systems in the Unexplored Star Clusters and come up with some more cool missions that you can make randomly come up when we warp in?
The Only thing that I see as Broken in this case is PW's and Cryptic's commitment to creating true Star Trek Exploration Missions. And pawning that job off on the Foundry Creators who do a fantastic job with the SUB STANDARD tool set given by Cryptic, it just emphasizes the fact.
Sorry about the glass completely empty view point, but it just pains me to no end to see this kind of stuff happen to my favorite game. . .
So to recap:
1.- The Unexplored Sectors are taken out along with EVERYTHING that is truly about exploring and everything else that can be done in those sectors, including making dilithium. = Negative Dumb Points for the Game!
2.- It is being replaced with a single point of light that we warp to so we can get the doff missions we used to get IN THE UNEXPLORED SECTORS while we were there EXPLORING which was much more immersive. = More Negative Dumb Points for the Game. . .
3.- And finally The Dumbest Statement that will live on in Game infamy:"While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO."= The Most Negative Dumb Points Ever. . .
How does taking out part of the diversity of a game improve it's overall Quality?
Or could this be the real reason:
Their new Crafting system that is going to take more of our time, cost us more to gain less, perhaps cost Zen, (and I have 7 Top Level Crafters) But because the crafting system no longer relies on scanned particle traces, the unexplored star clusters are not needed for that purpose anymore.
So instead ofPW paying Cryptic to go in and enhance the Exploration System of those Star Clusters, to make Exploration better, and instead of paying Cryptic to remove all the particle scan sites, "They" are just going to take that part of the game out instead. Cheaper for them and we the players are told it is for our own good, to "improve overall quality". = LAME!
Can you imagine how it would sound to us if Ford Motor Company made that Same Exact Statement about removing all the back seats in all their new cars because those seats don't make Ford as much money as the 2 front seats? What would we think of Ford then?:mad:
I may be wrong about this but it sure seems to make business sense in light of all the resent information revealed about the new Crafting System. . . Thanks for your time and efforts in reading this!
What do you folks think this removal is "Really About"?
i think they just make the game a manager game.. where you have mostly only to click assignmwnts or reputations..lol
They didn't say anything about there not being a new exploration system coming, just that there's nothing yet. The Foundry thing may just be the current filler while they set something else up.
/optimism
That's one of the things I called them out on in my original criticism. They had the perfect opportunity to say, "Hey, we're taking this away... BUT GUESS WHAT!? BRAND NEW STUFF IS COMING TO REPLACE IT!"
A part of me even thought that's what Mr. Gray was going to get at when he started in with his whole 'Exploration Star Trek Mantra' wind-up before the pitch.
If there is some new exploration thing coming, then they completely fumbled the opportunity to pitch it -- or at least tease it. Or imply it (they're quite good at saying everything and nothing at all), for that matter.
No, their solution to exploration (that they could have 'solved' years ago) was to hitch it to the Foundry where it's apparently 'within their current standards' to allow Loot-o-Matic Foundry missions and poorly-conceived missions that make the old exploration missions seem like a BioWare-derived storyline in comparison.
Then they threw in some weasel words, a lot of TRIBBLE we've already heard -- and the good news that they're keeping accolade progress and Tuffli/Suliban access nearby.
What's even more insulting is this is from the "Lead Content Designer" who we barely hear from. And when he actually climbs out of his cubicle to communicate to the players, it has absolutely nothing to do with "Designing Content", just removing old content.
Again, I'm 100% for the removal of the exploration missions... but only if you have something better to replace it with.
Given the sorry state of the Foundry in its current iteration, I honestly can not say it is 'better', let alone anything worth posting a dev blog over.
Maybe if Cryptic released a dev blog that would make Foundry authors like Kirksplat fall over in his chair, I wouldn't be so harsh -- but until they actually improve the Foundry, I'm not going to pretend this dev blog is anything to be proud about.
I certainly don't have the same goals as I did as a kid and STO doesn't have the same goals now as when it first came out.
You were a kid in 2010?
From the dev blog, Cryptic is not creating an Exploration system through the Foundry system.
They're leaving exploration to the foundry. That's it. That's what they're doing.
You can continue to try and convince yourself that they are going to add something later. But they haven't said anything of the sort. What they HAVE said is they're leaving this to the foundry.
At this point, I think it best if we just check back in on STO in 2015 so we can tally up what other things the lead content designer has improved by removing.
I'm betting STFs will get this treatment, since they're pretty thin, the Borg STFs overall lack the quality of the other STFs and aren't up to their current design standards.
There really wasn't any exploration in STO to kill. Cluster missions were just randomly generated missions where your boffs would fall through the map while you scan for plants that look oddly like walls or columns. Or Borg attacking a colony looking for relics from their third dynasty. They were bad and I'm honestly amazed it took them this long to take them out.
I think adding new Maps & more random generated missions to that area would have been a better boost
The randomness of such a merger is a plus that was removed... in addition to having not to fight to get certain things done. This game is full of murder. Not very peaceful or Diplomatic at all.. I think that was the only part of the game that was now that I think about it.
Surely deeper investment into the Diplomatic aspects of the Cluster would have been a plus also, what a shame. This does make me questions the DEV Teams think-tank.
There was never exploration in STO. It was a box you flew around in with crappy missions built on a bad random generator.
Why are you people lamenting the loss of what was a terrible feature? It's not even like it has a legitimate niche like PvP - "exploration" was objectively bad. Get over it.
Yes it was bad, but how hard would it be to improve it? Add more variety and randomness and it would have automatically been a lot more enjoyable, with the potential for some really fun and crazy things. I'm not sad that it's been removed, so much that I'm annoyed they didn't try to fix it or replace it with something more suitable.
See that underlined part? That's them stating that this change is "exactly in line" with the original goals of exploration.
This is their solution.
Foundry = Exploration.
Now they can move on to making one new voice over mission every 6 months, and some new lockboxes.
Win-Win for them!
Except they are not doing anything really to facilitate a Foundry author's ability to make or present engaging exploration content. People can't really find our missions. Beyond letting us use the doors, there is no effort to make our content accessible.
We could really do something with exploration. But there is no dev support for the Foundry, really.
Comments
"To seek out new grinds and monetization ... boldly going where all F2P MMOs have gone before."
- Judge Aaron Satie
When I said "the death of exploration," many of you thought I meant the 'death of the star clusters.' I meant it in a broader sense - maybe the clusters were absolute TRIBBLE, but at least they were there, at least we had exploration, even if it was in name only. Now it is gone, and without a replacement in sight, the very concept of exploration in STO is dead.
And all because it was a good source of anomalies.
P.S. If I was the kind of person who used profanity, this entire post would be made of asterisks.
The Star Cluster content was garbage, and I've played them maybe once in the last year and a half. Removing them from the game is a good move.
I don't buy into any conspiracy theories about the missions being removed to somehow game the crafting system. We'll have to see how things work out to determine whether crafting materials are any easier or harder to come by once the changes are final.
While I'm okay with Cryptic removing this content before an alternative exploration system has been implemented, I do think it's important to do something that resembles exploration in the future (and I mean actively playable content, not doff missions). I don't know exactly what this might look like, but I agree with those who say it's something this game is lacking.
The star clusters were TRIBBLE, and I just stopped doing them sooo long ago, that if cryptic stealth nerfed them out, I would not have noticed.
You would notice going from ESD to Beta Ursae, without the traffic police irritating you at Delta Volanis. Surely, you'd notice that, lol.
Wait, that guy is not gonna bug me anymore....Hell yeah I support this even more now.
How the clusters are a problem to you at all?
What are the clusters doine that people want them removed so badly?
Lately? They haven't been a problem to me, personally, in any way.
Historically? Back when the B'Tran dailies were "must play" endgame content, I very nearly fell asleep at my keyboard (no exaggeration) on multiple occasions thanks to the stimulating "content" they delivered.
As to your second question, what they're doing is giving the game a bad name by presenting themselves to new players fairly early on in their gameplay. This is the same reason it was worthwhile to redo the tutorial - the beginning of the game needs to be appealing.
For what it's worth, I feel the same way about many of the Cardassian Space story missions. They're long and boring, and need to be either radically redone or removed from the game entirely.
But yet again some people seem to miss the point that Star Trek is not just a spaceshooter on steroids...
some "boring" and time taking missions are needed to give the game a bit more of the Trek flare...Plus the fact that you can just avoid the clusters if you dont want togo there... even new players could just focus on episodes and patrols if they dont like to explore...
exploration can be boring... you should ask Kirk, Janeway , Picard and even Q....at the point were you agree to explore new locations youre willingly accepting borings days.. if not months at some times...Thats space Travel...and a Real captain would understand that =P
I said in my earlier post that I support the addition of additional exploration content in this game.
However, you will never find me advocating for the inclusion of intentionally boring content in a video game. :rolleyes:
More stuff is coming, or some way to still get the items you need.
As for "exploration."
Guys, lets be honest, this game is painfully old. We all love the IP/universe/unique content ideas in the game... but its all dated, doesn't always work that well... and frankly is boring to play.
I think they can fix this, i think they can come up with new content of this category. I think that's what the deta Q and the gamma Q will become.
I don't know how they can do a good exploration with the current system. its complicated for sure.
Yeah, that's why the shows skipped the exploration parts, and jumped into the action, adventure parts.
Not exactly there are many episodes in the show that are " boring" or diplomatic only...one of them is the one with mergilum... or the solanae one...or all the covert missions where they investigate pre-warp cilvilisations... no pew pew.. but alot of talk...
but then again... you could always avoid the clusters...only because you dont like them dosent mean all people share this opinion
Arguing here is illogical since they are already want to remove them.. but still .. i think people should state their oppinion on this matter...
Someone smarter then me said and he was right. That is all.
Ok, let's be really really honest here. The game just celebrated its fourth anniversary. Everquest is 4 times older. It celebrated its 16th anniversary.
Everquest TWO the sequel to Everquest is older than STO.
World of ******** s older than STO.
This game is not painfully old.
As stated in Dev Blog 29, they're not doing that. They're not revamping this system. They're not focusing on it in the expansion. Instead, they're tying exploration assets into the Foundry. That's the solution. The players now shoulder the burden.
The devs have lockboxes to make.
To repeat, per dev blog 29, there is no alternative exploration system coming.
It's been hitched into the foundry. That's the solution. Viola. Done. No new system coming down the pipeline. NOTHING that resembles exploration in the future.
So basically everyone who's happy that they scrapped this content, should be a little cautious going forward. As they've set the precedent that they can essentially remove content whole cloth and solve any issues about it by putting it all on the shoulders of the playerbase to deal with going forward.
When that design and development procedure starts to leak into aspects of gameplay that you DO like, it'll be far too late to prevent.
They didn't say anything about there not being a new exploration system coming, just that there's nothing yet. The Foundry thing may just be the current filler while they set something else up.
/optimism
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Still waiting on Terradome are ya?
I thought we were being "honest" in this thread.
They've solved the exploration problem, as they state in that blog, by tying it to the foundry.
There's a lockbox coming with the expansion. It's been datamined. There's no new faction. There's no new exploration.
There's most likely new reputation grinds though. You can infer that from what they posted all through the feedback process from when they revamped the trait system.
Going to have to point to where the devs specifically say that there is no alternative exploration system is coming. The entire dev blog is just about the change to Exploration Clusters. The devs are usually cryptic about what the next major update will have. We had absolutely no idea that the Crafting Revamp and Exploration Cluster Removal happening in Season 9.5 until that first Season 9.5 Dev Blog. If Cryptic is working on an alternative exploration system, then we won't know about it until it is ready to hit Tribble or a couple of weeks before.
As far as the Foundry being the Exploration system, then it is not Exploration. It will be slightly better than the Genesis System, but that is not difficult considering how bad the Genesis System is.
From the blog:
See that underlined part? That's them stating that this change is "exactly in line" with the original goals of exploration.
This is their solution.
Foundry = Exploration.
Now they can move on to making one new voice over mission every 6 months, and some new lockboxes.
Win-Win for them!
Let me get this straight, the whole Exploration System is what keeps STO's overall quality from being improved??? I thought it is the ton of long standing bugs, errors, broken released versions of the game, Lack of the same Foundry tools being shared that Cryptic uses, and other things that makes the game seem Lower Quality the most?
The Exploration system IS Not Broken, it is just inconvenient for Cryptic to fix. . .
Lets take a tally of what we have lost, shall we?
We have Doff Chain missions where we can get blue and purple doffs over and over again. . . = GONE!
And what about the First Contact Missions? . . . = GONE!
Diplomatic Missions? . . . . = GONE!
And what about the fun of not knowing what kind of mission you will encounter until you go into each unexplored system. . . = GONE!
Oh and lets not forget about the 1,440 Dilithium for "Actually Exploring" 3 Unexplored Star Cluster systems. . . = GONE!
Also we have LOST 3 sectors to gain Doff Trade Missions that gain us Gamma Quadrant commodities. . . = GONE!
Now the New Bright Idea by Cryptic and PW is warp to a Point of light in space and "Pretend like we are Exploring It" and do all the doff missions produced from this magical Non-explorable point in space. . . = DUMB!
Talk about a totally dumb and NON- Star Trek game idea, Lets pretend we are "Explorers" but reduce the whole game to WAR!
When will you folks at Cryptic introduce a REAL Exploration system?
If you don't like the old one, because it didn't have enough alien races to meet and trade with and make friends with, non-aggression pacts with, bring into the Federation or the Empire, then. . .
Why not "Use your own Character Creator" to make some different species that we have not seen and ADD it to the existing Unexplored solar systems in the Unexplored Star Clusters and come up with some more cool missions that you can make randomly come up when we warp in?
The Only thing that I see as Broken in this case is PW's and Cryptic's commitment to creating true Star Trek Exploration Missions. And pawning that job off on the Foundry Creators who do a fantastic job with the SUB STANDARD tool set given by Cryptic, it just emphasizes the fact.
Sorry about the glass completely empty view point, but it just pains me to no end to see this kind of stuff happen to my favorite game. . .
So to recap:
1.- The Unexplored Sectors are taken out along with EVERYTHING that is truly about exploring and everything else that can be done in those sectors, including making dilithium. = Negative Dumb Points for the Game!
2.- It is being replaced with a single point of light that we warp to so we can get the doff missions we used to get IN THE UNEXPLORED SECTORS while we were there EXPLORING which was much more immersive. = More Negative Dumb Points for the Game. . .
3.- And finally The Dumbest Statement that will live on in Game infamy: "While we are removing part of the game, we hope that this improves the overall quality of STO." = The Most Negative Dumb Points Ever. . .
How does taking out part of the diversity of a game improve it's overall Quality?
Or could this be the real reason:
Their new Crafting system that is going to take more of our time, cost us more to gain less, perhaps cost Zen, (and I have 7 Top Level Crafters) But because the crafting system no longer relies on scanned particle traces, the unexplored star clusters are not needed for that purpose anymore.
So instead of PW paying Cryptic to go in and enhance the Exploration System of those Star Clusters, to make Exploration better, and instead of paying Cryptic to remove all the particle scan sites, "They" are just going to take that part of the game out instead. Cheaper for them and we the players are told it is for our own good, to "improve overall quality". = LAME!
Can you imagine how it would sound to us if Ford Motor Company made that Same Exact Statement about removing all the back seats in all their new cars because those seats don't make Ford as much money as the 2 front seats? What would we think of Ford then?:mad:
I may be wrong about this but it sure seems to make business sense in light of all the resent information revealed about the new Crafting System. . . Thanks for your time and efforts in reading this!
What do you folks think this removal is "Really About"?
There is a difference between original goals of exploration and original goals of exploration clusters. Also goals change over the years. I certainly don't have the same goals as I did as a kid and STO doesn't have the same goals now as when it first came out. After all, I seriously doubt that Cryptic had the goals of Reputation grind and Lockboxes back in 2010.
From the dev blog, Cryptic is not creating an Exploration system through the Foundry system. If I fly to an Exploration Cluster, then I have to go to the Foundry screen and pick a mission for that Exploration Cluster. Exploration has to be random for it to be exploration. They would have to create a completely new system where a random Foundry mission is picked with preferably options to only select Foundry missions with certain tags like Borg, Klingon, non-combat, combat, space, ground, etc.
They are not removing the Exploration Doff Chain missions. It is the only thing from the Exploration Clusters that they aren't removing.
There was never exploration in STO. It was a box you flew around in with crappy missions built on a bad random generator.
Why are you people lamenting the loss of what was a terrible feature? It's not even like it has a legitimate niche like PvP - "exploration" was objectively bad. Get over it.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
i think they just make the game a manager game.. where you have mostly only to click assignmwnts or reputations..lol
sad
That's one of the things I called them out on in my original criticism. They had the perfect opportunity to say, "Hey, we're taking this away... BUT GUESS WHAT!? BRAND NEW STUFF IS COMING TO REPLACE IT!"
A part of me even thought that's what Mr. Gray was going to get at when he started in with his whole 'Exploration Star Trek Mantra' wind-up before the pitch.
If there is some new exploration thing coming, then they completely fumbled the opportunity to pitch it -- or at least tease it. Or imply it (they're quite good at saying everything and nothing at all), for that matter.
No, their solution to exploration (that they could have 'solved' years ago) was to hitch it to the Foundry where it's apparently 'within their current standards' to allow Loot-o-Matic Foundry missions and poorly-conceived missions that make the old exploration missions seem like a BioWare-derived storyline in comparison.
Then they threw in some weasel words, a lot of TRIBBLE we've already heard -- and the good news that they're keeping accolade progress and Tuffli/Suliban access nearby.
What's even more insulting is this is from the "Lead Content Designer" who we barely hear from. And when he actually climbs out of his cubicle to communicate to the players, it has absolutely nothing to do with "Designing Content", just removing old content.
Again, I'm 100% for the removal of the exploration missions... but only if you have something better to replace it with.
Given the sorry state of the Foundry in its current iteration, I honestly can not say it is 'better', let alone anything worth posting a dev blog over.
Maybe if Cryptic released a dev blog that would make Foundry authors like Kirksplat fall over in his chair, I wouldn't be so harsh -- but until they actually improve the Foundry, I'm not going to pretend this dev blog is anything to be proud about.
You were a kid in 2010?
They're leaving exploration to the foundry. That's it. That's what they're doing.
You can continue to try and convince yourself that they are going to add something later. But they haven't said anything of the sort. What they HAVE said is they're leaving this to the foundry.
At this point, I think it best if we just check back in on STO in 2015 so we can tally up what other things the lead content designer has improved by removing.
I'm betting STFs will get this treatment, since they're pretty thin, the Borg STFs overall lack the quality of the other STFs and aren't up to their current design standards.
We'll see.
I think adding new Maps & more random generated missions to that area would have been a better boost
The randomness of such a merger is a plus that was removed... in addition to having not to fight to get certain things done. This game is full of murder. Not very peaceful or Diplomatic at all.. I think that was the only part of the game that was now that I think about it.
Surely deeper investment into the Diplomatic aspects of the Cluster would have been a plus also, what a shame. This does make me questions the DEV Teams think-tank.
-V
Yes it was bad, but how hard would it be to improve it? Add more variety and randomness and it would have automatically been a lot more enjoyable, with the potential for some really fun and crazy things. I'm not sad that it's been removed, so much that I'm annoyed they didn't try to fix it or replace it with something more suitable.
Except they are not doing anything really to facilitate a Foundry author's ability to make or present engaging exploration content. People can't really find our missions. Beyond letting us use the doors, there is no effort to make our content accessible.
We could really do something with exploration. But there is no dev support for the Foundry, really.